Author Topic: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]  (Read 145090 times)

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Offline Huw the Poo

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1050 on: July 06, 2013, 03:23:17 AM »
Geek, you're absolutely right, but hopefully the problem you describe isn't insurmountable.  I'm sure we get our heads together and work out a really newbie-friendly system.  I'd certainly be interested in the game myself.

Offline undercovergeek

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1051 on: July 06, 2013, 04:12:44 AM »
then maybe lay the facts out right at the start - that should be enough to put most fake newbies off because they wont be getting any game action - Elite6 for instance already mentioned he wouldnt be interested (not that hes a fake newbie! (although hes not a newbie!)). Describe right at the top what its for and be prepared to kick those that just go straight for a victory - may be all indy troops to be conquered first, may be theres 6 players and 240 territories, EVERYONE should be free to take their 40 at their own pace - do not take your 40 and then start encroaching on other peoples lands until everyone agrees. There is no big race to the finish line on, have the score graphs on - discuss what they mean and and help you to understand where your place in the game is with them - have at least 1 guy who knows what hes doing as a mentor - like we discussed the other night!

Offline elitesix

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1052 on: July 06, 2013, 05:40:26 AM »
I've only been a part of four MP dominions games, one which I let you sub in for geek at what turn 24, the other three (including this one) are ongoing. I was definitely a mp newbie as I mentioned in this thread before we started, but there's a distinction between mp newbie and sp newbie.

I was definitely not a sp newbie. I had probably logged at least 50+ hours single player. SP definitely let's you learn how to perfect your early game, but not much more than that.

This game is very complex and deep and even slight disparities in skill or inexperience make huge differences in the outcome of warfare. Also, so much of the game turns on diplomacy. That can make it very frustrating to be on the receiving end of both those things.

My advice to all the SP newbies is that you'll learn the game lot faster by playing and beating sp 1-3 times against a few ais. Do that, then jump into mp, and then it's a lot easier to figure out this immensely complex strategy game.


Offline undercovergeek

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1053 on: July 06, 2013, 05:47:59 AM »
no offense was meant - but you have mentioned exactly what i was referring to  - its clear that you and a few others know your way around Dom III a whole lot more than most people who are on here playing in newbie games which i certainly (and ill take the blame for that) understood to be new to the game not to MP - its semantics and it doesnt matter and this is the whole reason for the discussion - there are people in this game and others including me who dont know their arse from their elbow in terms what to forge, what to cast and why getting pummelled by those who are veterans of the SP game with clearly defined strategies and nation expertise. New guys in the game have never even chosen their race before let alone knwo what to do with it and there should be an MP game that allows them to get put their war trousers on without getting stomped - they learn nothing - other than lightening spam hurts, then they go away and google how to cast it only to beaten in the next MP game by someone who can counter that and google and repeat - thats not learning

Offline elitesix

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1054 on: July 06, 2013, 07:39:55 AM »
Perhaps there is a difference in the definition of newbie as used by this community versus desura's (I found this game from a post on the desura's forums).

The definition of new or inexperienced as posted by the moderator in the aprilshowers game (the one you joined before Groghammer):

"This game is aimed at new or inexperienced players (ie. newbie friendly), and I hope it to be ideal for those new players who are looking to get their first taste of Multiplayer games. "Inexperienced" is not a term that has a strict definition, but it usually means someone who has played less than 10 MP games. and who has yet to make it to the latter stages of the game in any meaningful position (ie. they were not in contention to win). If you are regularly making it the the late game in a good position, then you are likely not that inexperienced anymore. And if you have already won a proper multiplayer game (ie. a game with 8 or more players), then you very likely know the game well enough to be stepping up to intermediate level games."

http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-3-the-awakening/forum/thread/april-showers

But I can totally understand how if you had a different understanding of what it means to be new it can be very frustrating. You really can learn a lot (and have a lot fun!) by spending a couple hours on finishing a small sp game then by jumping head first into a mp game where it would take weeks of turns to finish a game. Though the latter method may well be more fun to some, I would find t immensely frustrating to spend weeks of slow turns discovering I designed the wrong pretender or learn some other lesson about the game that I could have learned in a couple of hours of single play.
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 07:42:13 AM by elitesix »

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1055 on: July 06, 2013, 09:00:56 AM »
Once I lose DomGrog (which seems soon now) I'm sure I'll be back to setting up Groghawk, which would indeed be intended for experimental expansion and no alliances.

Or, if you wanted to put it another way, every player would be allied with each other until we agreed otherwise! ;) That way there would be grounds for kicking a player who tried to start warring early.
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Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

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Offline elitesix

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1056 on: July 06, 2013, 05:30:23 PM »
After reports of a few high Kings of the Deep emerging from black waters of Neverwinter and entering Ermorian towers, and a few Grand Thaumaturgies seen submerging themselves in the coastal shallows, Atlantis is happy to announce a new diplomatic measure in the interests of peace and stability of this world:

The Pact of Neverwinter
An Atlantis-Ermor Defensive Pact

Atlantis guarantees the independence of Ermor. Ermor guarantees the independence of Atlantis.

Any nation declaring war upon Atlantis or Ermor shall be effectively declaring war upon both.
Any war triggering this treaty will immediately cancel any NAP-3s that the aggressor nation has with both Atlantis and Ermor, and will be subject to immediate reprisals without the 3 turn wait period. This treaty shall not apply in the event of an offensive war initiated by Atlantis or Ermor.

« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 07:06:41 PM by elitesix »

Offline Huw the Poo

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1057 on: July 07, 2013, 03:02:42 AM »
Incidentally, Von W8taminuten is one of the best pretender names I've seen yet! :D
« Last Edit: July 27, 2013, 08:41:47 AM by Huw the Poo »

Offline W8taminute

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1058 on: July 07, 2013, 10:49:03 AM »
Thanks Huw!   8)
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PsiSoldier

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1059 on: July 07, 2013, 11:08:56 AM »
. Describe right at the top what its for and be prepared to kick those that just go straight for a victory - may be all indy troops to be conquered first, may be theres 6 players and 240 territories, EVERYONE should be free to take their 40 at their own pace - do not take your 40 and then start encroaching on other peoples lands until everyone agrees. There is no big race to the finish line on, have the score graphs on

I like this idea.   But you will need a special map such as Six Lands  Although probably bigger where each player has their owned assigned starting area and there will be no confusion over who's lands are who's.      I am an experienced player however I usually start out like a turtle because I am very cautious in my expansion and normally tend to be way behind in province count.

You could also do something where no player is allowed to begin war with any other player until a set turn as well like maybe turn 20 - 30 or somewhere in there.  That I suppose would all depend on how many provinces you went with for the map. 

One of the great things about Dominions is that you can always come up with your own special rules for games, some of my favorite games of the past have most definitely been games with strange and different rules from the norm that everyone had to abide by.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1060 on: July 07, 2013, 12:38:14 PM »
I have set the clock back to 48 hours, so as soon as Eriu gets back and sends his turn we should be back to normal.

In regard to the new defensive alliance, I'm pretty sure I haven't sent anything against Ermor (I'm cleaning up Machaka), but some players might not read this before the next turn generates and may have placed orders for an attack on Ermor.

Assuming for hypothesis that this happens, and that the nation isn't already at war with Ermor, and that the nation doesn't want to go to war with both Ermor and Atlantis and so wouldn't have placed the order had he known, will the allies allow a pullback turn and abandonment of hostilities?

I feel like I ought to ask since I'm this game's admin, in order to head off potential problems. ;)

Relatedly, am I right in inferring that any ongoing wars with either of you will not be considered violation of the defense pact (regardless of who initiated the war)? e.g. R'yleh is already at war with Ermor (I don't know this is true, I'm just trying to think of someone nearby), does Atlantis now declare war on the other underwater nation as a result of this pact?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 12:57:04 PM by JasonPratt »
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in chronological order. Lots and lots of order...

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

Offline elitesix

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1061 on: July 07, 2013, 02:47:15 PM »
Existing wars do not trigger the treaty.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1062 on: July 09, 2013, 06:46:41 AM »
I was working on other things yesterday figuring I could do my turn this afternoon, but I didn't do my math right and so didn't notice the turn will end while I'm still at work. Consequently I've briefly postponed the game seven hours. (I notice several other players haven't sent in turns either yet, so that might be helpful to you, too, especially if you have a North or South American work schedule.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in chronological order. Lots and lots of order...

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1063 on: July 09, 2013, 12:29:22 PM »
Phobos over at the DawnGrog game notes that Llamaserver has updated to run Illwinter's 3.29 patch.

Apparently we'll all need to download and install the patch, and then replay/resend our turns to the server, just to be safe.

Consequently I'm bumping the game clock forward a couple of days, just to make sure everyone has patched and run their turn with no problems.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in chronological order. Lots and lots of order...

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

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Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
« Reply #1064 on: July 09, 2013, 06:23:56 PM »
 I think there is no need for that in this game. The current turn was generated under 3.28 and will receive turns from that version; it will also will accept turns from a 3.29 Dominions, so there is no trouble updating right now if anybody wants to.
 
 When this turns host, the llamaserver will be probably updated to 3.29 and everyone will need to update. But you will notice that as you won't be able to play a 3.29 turn in a 3.28 Dominions.

 So no need to do the turn again from scratch. At least from my perspective that sounds like real pain :P.

 Llamabeast himself has said:

      I updated the llamaserver yesterday. All players in MP games should update now. However if you already sent in a turn using the previous version that's completely fine - dom3 handles the situation well. Basically there is no risk of updating at the wrong time.


  (I'm also giving this info based on a past Calahan post from when the server updated to the current version. See here if you want to check: http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=927&st=240 )

« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 06:26:26 PM by Lunaje »