Breaking into the great Paradox abyss

Jarhead0331 · February 16, 2014, 06:41:30 AM

I just can't seem to break into a new Paradox game these days despite my burning desire. I desperately want to learn EUIV, Crusader Kings II and HOI3. Really, I totally want to play all three of them...I actually day dream about it. But then when I go to sit down to play, I end up loading and playing something much more mindless.

It is very frustrating to truly want to play something, but to then to never try due to a lack of patience in learning the system, and an unwillingness to play and do poorly as a result of being an inexperienced player. This has always been a real problem with me and gaming, I hate losing, I hate doing poorly. I hate losing territory, battles or men simply because I don't know how to play. I strongly feel this way, even though it is just a game. What is wrong with me?

Anyway, I've played paradox games to death before. Most notably, Hearts of Iron 2, EUIII and EU: Rome, so it is not as if I've never been able to learn the paradox system, and I know once I do, I really enjoy it.

Do any of you guys have any suggestions for getting over this hump? I desperately want to play these games.

hamrock · February 16, 2014, 06:48:34 AM

Nothing wrong with you mate, you sound like me.

bob48 · February 16, 2014, 06:50:32 AM

I'm the same with HOI3, which has been on my machine for several months. I keep going into it, usually inspired by other peoples AAR's, determined to get into it. But there is something which just not register with me, for some inexplicable reason.

I'll keeping trying in the hope that it 'clicks', but it is very frustrating.

bayonetbrant · February 16, 2014, 06:59:55 AM

Is there a multi-player option you could set a time for a game with some other guys and force yourself to participate that way?

Grim.Reaper · February 16, 2014, 07:03:25 AM

Count me in....have bought all these games and just sit and stare at them...however, going to try and get into crusader kings more since that is material I really should enjoy.

I think one thing I wish these games would do is not use ratings/numbers so much.....instead give them meaningful descriptions and values that would help non-numbers guys understand things. For example, when they rate a trait or something within the game, it always gives something a +2 or -2, etc.....why can't it just be it gives them a "Low", "Medium", or "High" advantage? I think if it took out the spreadsheet numbers and replaced with meaningful stuff like this, I likely would understand it better:) However, I do realize some people like all those numbers:)

Jarhead0331 · February 16, 2014, 07:03:49 AM

Quote from: bob48 on February 16, 2014, 06:50:32 AM
I'm the same with HOI3, which has been on my machine for several months. I keep going into it, usually inspired by other peoples AAR's, determined to get into it. But there is something which just not register with me, for some inexplicable reason.

I'll keeping trying in the hope that it 'clicks', but it is very frustrating.

The problem is, I don't really even try. I sit there, I stare at the title in my steam library and then I move on. I usually don't even run the game. Sometimes I will, but then I will stop at the paradox menu window that pops up, like running into a brick wall.

Jarhead0331 · February 16, 2014, 07:05:49 AM

Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 16, 2014, 06:59:55 AM
Is there a multi-player option you could set a time for a game with some other guys and force yourself to participate that way?

I think I really need someone in the room with me. It's sort of like having a buddy with you at the gym for motivation.

bob48 · February 16, 2014, 07:06:58 AM

Quote from: bayonetbrant on February 16, 2014, 06:59:55 AM
Is there a multi-player option you could set a time for a game with some other guys and force yourself to participate that way?

Not sure, but MD has offered to give me some help with it, and I'm sure that Geek would do the same. I have to wait to be in the right mood to try.

I'm am, however, totally immersed in learning and playing 'Heroes of the Blitzkrieg' at the moment :)

TheCommandTent · February 16, 2014, 07:25:18 AM

I've only played CKII from that list and struggled with the same things trying to get into it. You definitely have to be in the right mind set before starting to play/learn it. How you get there, well that is up to you. For me with CKII I watched a number of awesome "Let's Play" videos online. Not only did this really help teach me the game and give me some confidence that I knew what I was doing but also got me in the right mindset to play.

Barthheart · February 16, 2014, 07:49:04 AM

Same here as all above.

Finally just set aside 3 hours of clear time with no distractions and started up EU IV. Picked a country I'm familiar with, Castille/Spain and just started playing on the slow setting. Used the hint system, poked at stuff to see what happens. It turns out most of EU IV is not that different than EU III, except the trade system.
I've not got about 40 hours in and starting to enjoy it. Still have no real idea how the trade system works but I'm making money so there's that....

Anyway, you need a time when you are relaxed, have lot of time and no distractions to get over that first hump. Once you are playing it will get easier to jump in and out for shorter periods.

Next up for me if HOI III.... before HOI IV comes out! :P

bbmike · February 16, 2014, 08:26:50 AM

I love Paradox games and my favorites are Victoria 2 and Europa IV. I have tired to get into Crusader Kings but can't seem to. It did take a while for Paradox games to 'click' with me but they are great fun once you figure it all out.
My bigger problem now is that when I sit down to play ANY GAME I can't seem to really get into it. But I think we already have a thread(s) on that somewhere else. :P

Wolfe1759 · February 16, 2014, 08:31:13 AM

I had the same problem myself and still do with HOI3.

I found EUIV to be the most approachable of the three.

Pick a beginner country, either Ottomans or Castille and then focus on the missions system. Pick a mission and figure out what you need to do to achieve it, concentrate on that and don't worry too much about the bigger picture.

If something bad or annoying happens because you didn't really know what you were doing you'll probably have spotted what you did wrong (i.e. you've learned a bit more about that part of the game) don't feel bad about starting again from the last save and doing things different this time round.

In the end you probably will have to enjoy losing to start with, if you feel you have to always know how to make the optimum move in each circumstance you'll not get much more than a year or two into a game before being stalled by analysis paralysis, or giving up because you can't learn and apply every part of the game to your best advantage.

CKII can also be great fun when you are losing :)

sandman2575 · February 16, 2014, 08:46:43 AM

Definitely agree with the idea that you have to be in the right frame of mind for Pdox games. Because most are so open-ended, if you're mentally tired (and after a long day at work, who isn't?), it's very easy to boot up any Pdox game, stare at the screen, throw up your hands, and go play something where you blow s**t up instead.

Ii just want to throw in my plug for the greatness of Crusader Kings II, and why it's worth the investment if time learning to play. Paradox is probably my favorite publisher - I'd count HoI, Victoria, and EU among my favorite games of all time. I'm increasingly convinced CKII with all the expansions is P'dox's best game to date.

I know 'read the manual' type advice is not too inspiring, but I have to highly recommend this in-depth guide to CKII out together by Meneth. It's available as a PDF -- and is beautifully illustrated to boot:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?599744-CK-II-Userguide-by-Meneth-and-Novapaddy

P'dox's own CKII manual is pretty useless. This one really explains the game mechanics, what strategies you should employ and why. CKII and EUIV both do a pretty good job with tooltips -- the Pdox GUI has come a long way since the early days of HoI and EU. Still, esp with CKII, there's so much going on under the hood that you really can't be aware of until someone tells you about it -- hence why I think Meneths guide will really help anyone who wants to get into CKII.

Rayfer · February 16, 2014, 08:50:33 AM

An alternate view....perhaps it's societal, something many of us suffer; the lure of instant gratification, which permeates all aspects of our world today. We want the payoff, the kick, the juice right now, we don't want to wait, we don't want to cultivate the necessary skills and devote the necessary time to engage ourselves in these sort of more complex games (i.e. CK2, HOI3) in order to enjoy them. Maybe I'm over-complicating this, but then....? Just saying.

Barthheart · February 16, 2014, 08:54:37 AM

Quote from: Rayfer on February 16, 2014, 08:50:33 AM
An alternate view....perhaps it's societal, something many of us suffer; the lure of instant gratification, which permeates all aspects of our world today. We want the payoff, the kick, the juice right now, we don't want to wait, we don't want to cultivate the necessary skills and devote the necessary time to engage ourselves in these sort of more complex games (i.e. CK2, HOI3) in order to enjoy them. Maybe I'm over-complicating this, but then....? Just saying.

Oh I agree with this completely! That's why I force myself every once in a while to sit down and concentrate on a complex game. I feel I need to do this to keep me from becoming a mindless zombie.. :P