Detailed Militaries in Space 4X Games

[Great Ajax]

This has bugged me for years in playing Space 4X games and that is that the military aspect generally involves only two aspects.  The first is researching technology and incorporating that technology in ship designs.  The second is simply hurling mass numbers of ships in sometimes detailed ship combat without any real fleet organization.  The ground combat game usually involves just dumping a number of transports at an enemy occupied planet.  Militarily, most of these games are unsatisfying to me.  Is there any 4X game that deals with fleet and ground operations in a more detailed approach?  I guess I am looking for a space wargame.  Does such an animal exist? 

Even though MOO2 involved just overwhelming a planet with ground troop transports, I immensely enjoyed watching the shootout on the surface.

Trey

[Jarhead0331]

This has bugged me for years in playing Space 4X games and that is that the military aspect generally involves only two aspects.  The first is researching technology and incorporating that technology in ship designs.  The second is simply hurling mass numbers of ships in sometimes detailed ship combat without any real fleet organization.  The ground combat game usually involves just dumping a number of transports at an enemy occupied planet.  Militarily, most of these games are unsatisfying to me.  Is there any 4X game that deals with fleet and ground operations in a more detailed approach?  I guess I am looking for a space wargame.  Does such an animal exist? 

Even though MOO2 involved just overwhelming a planet with ground troop transports, I immensely enjoyed watching the shootout on the surface.

Trey

This is one of the reasons why I have always stated that MOO3, properly patched and modded, is one of the greatest 4x games of all time.  you can organize your ships into flotillas, squadrons, fleets, armadas, etc.  You can then classify them by role and designate them with any organizational system you choose.  Ground troops can also be formed into detachments, battalions, Regiments, Divisions, Corps and Armies.  They too can be organizationally designated in any manner you choose. 

There are unit number and type requirements that change based upon the size of your ship and ground force units.  In other words, for a fleet, you must include a certain number of pickets, core vessels and C3 ships.  Likewise ground units must also be balanced by unit type depending on size.  Additionally, you can set experience requirements, as well, so that you can control the quality of your OOB.  For example, you can form a trained division, that requires a certain number of trained units in addition to those that are fresh recruits.  Or, you can create an elite division, made up of a greater proportion of veteran, or crack units.

Of course, as technology advances, the number of invasion and battle tactic options increase.

It is hands down the most detailed system I've seen in any 4x game.  I'm eagerly waiting for someone else to match or exceed it. 

[Kushan]

There's always Aurora. If you can get over the spartan graphics and UI. You don't just research and design ship's, you design each component that goes on to your ships. From the fire control systems, ordnance, engines, etc. You also have to take into account the fleet doctrine and where a ship class fits into the overall scheme.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/

[GDS_Starfury]

Aurora has a decent ground combat system but its not graphical at all.
you have planetary defence centers, various types of military  units from garrison forces to heavy armor and marines.  you also have various sizes and need dedicated ships for planetary assaults.  you also need to assign commanders with their own variables and unit training schedules.

[mikeck]

Yep. aurora is about all You are going to get if you were looking for that detail of a level of combat

[bbmike]

This is one of the reasons why I have always stated that MOO3, properly patched and modded, is one of the greatest 4x games of all time.  you can organize your ships into flotillas, squadrons, fleets, armadas, etc.  You can then classify them by role and designate them with any organizational system you choose.  Ground troops can also be formed into detachments, battalions, Regiments, Divisions, Corps and Armies.  They too can be organizationally designated in any manner you choose. 

There are unit number and type requirements that change based upon the size of your ship and ground force units.  In other words, for a fleet, you must include a certain number of pickets, core vessels and C3 ships.  Likewise ground units must also be balanced by unit type depending on size.  Additionally, you can set experience requirements, as well, so that you can control the quality of your OOB.  For example, you can form a trained division, that requires a certain number of trained units in addition to those that are fresh recruits.  Or, you can create an elite division, made up of a greater proportion of veteran, or crack units.

Of course, as technology advances, the number of invasion and battle tactic options increase.

It is hands down the most detailed system I've seen in any 4x game.  I'm eagerly waiting for someone else to match or exceed it.

Jarhead, which of the mods do you recommend? I remember there being 3 large mods a few years back.

[mikeck]

This has bugged me for years in playing Space 4X games and that is that the military aspect generally involves only two aspects.  The first is researching technology and incorporating that technology in ship designs.  The second is simply hurling mass numbers of ships in sometimes detailed ship combat without any real fleet organization.  The ground combat game usually involves just dumping a number of transports at an enemy occupied planet.  Militarily, most of these games are unsatisfying to me.  Is there any 4X game that deals with fleet and ground operations in a more detailed approach?  I guess I am looking for a space wargame.  Does such an animal exist? 

Even though MOO2 involved just overwhelming a planet with ground troop transports, I immensely enjoyed watching the shootout on the surface.

Trey

This is one of the reasons why I have always stated that MOO3, properly patched and modded, is one of the greatest 4x games of all time.  you can organize your ships into flotillas, squadrons, fleets, armadas, etc.  You can then classify them by role and designate them with any organizational system you choose.  Ground troops can also be formed into detachments, battalions, Regiments, Divisions, Corps and Armies.  They too can be organizationally designated in any manner you choose. 

There are unit number and type requirements that change based upon the size of your ship and ground force units.  In other words, for a fleet, you must include a certain number of pickets, core vessels and C3 ships.  Likewise ground units must also be balanced by unit type depending on size.  Additionally, you can set experience requirements, as well, so that you can control the quality of your OOB.  For example, you can form a trained division, that requires a certain number of trained units in addition to those that are fresh recruits.  Or, you can create an elite division, made up of a greater proportion of veteran, or crack units.

Of course, as technology advances, the number of invasion and battle tactic options increase.

It is hands down the most detailed system I've seen in any 4x game.  I'm eagerly waiting for someone else to match or exceed it.

Which mods do you recommend. I have the Steam version I believe

[bayonetbrant]

One of the reasons is that at the point you're directing an entire civilization, you ought to have competent subordinates to handle MTOEs, acquisitions, training, tactics, etc.  You're not also trying to micromanage inter-bank loan rights, private investment capital, employment incentives, and job-training, are you?

I get that we're grogs and want to poke and prod and play with all the boom-producing toys, but I think the scale of the game dictates how far down into micro-managing you actually get.

[Jarhead0331]

The three most popular mods for moo3 are the strawberry, chocolate and tropical mods. I have no idea why they used this naming convention, it certainly has nothing to do with the description of the mod. I believe I use the tropical mod because it actually combines the other two mods, and then adds some critical patches and other smaller popular community mods.

Over the years, I had posted links, AARs and info. Regarding the mods and patched game at wargamer. I'll try to dig up those old threads and reprint them here.

[Barthheart]

Jarhead started a discussion here last year about Moo3 and the mods to make it work well.

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=2476.0

[Jarhead0331]

Wow...I forgot I did that here too!

[Great Ajax]

Thanks for the tip, Jarhead. I picked this up some time ago on GoG and never gave it a spin and MOO3 sounds like it is worth a try.  The itch that I am having here is an interstellar wargame composed of both detailed fleet and ground forces.  I want to pick up a game where all of the exploration and diplomacy is done and now it is just intergalactic fisticuffs.  A Warhammer 40K game would fit in nicely here.

Trey

[mikeck]

Same here...bought it and never played it.

[Jarhead0331]

Thanks for the tip, Jarhead. I picked this up some time ago on GoG and never gave it a spin and MOO3 sounds like it is worth a try.  The itch that I am having here is an interstellar wargame composed of both detailed fleet and ground forces.  I want to pick up a game where all of the exploration and diplomacy is done and now it is just intergalactic fisticuffs.  A Warhammer 40K game would fit in nicely here.

Trey

Ahhh...ok. So Aurora may be your best bet then because with the space master, you can create resources, ships, colonies, etc., without having to build them...you can therefore create any starting conditions you want.

[undercovergeek]

The three most popular mods for moo3 are the strawberry, chocolate and tropical mods. I have no idea why they used this naming convention, it certainly has nothing to do with the description of the mod. I believe I use the tropical mod because it actually combines the other two mods, and then adds some critical patches and other smaller popular community mods.

Over the years, I had posted links, AARs and info. Regarding the mods and patched game at wargamer. I'll try to dig up those old threads and reprint them here.

Alternate flavours to vanilla?