Author Topic: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?  (Read 7500 times)

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Offline Gusington

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #15 on: March 13, 2012, 09:10:59 AM »
The Russians did get involved, they invaded and took Japanese territory at the Sakhalin Islands. Unless you meant something else, Epee? That move by the Russians also prompted the US to use the bomb instead of a blockade to show the Russians where we stood.
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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #16 on: March 13, 2012, 10:10:25 PM »
Yep Gus that was what I was thinking.

Offline Gusington

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #17 on: March 14, 2012, 08:13:59 AM »
Sakhalin Islands are still a touchy subject between Russia and Japan today. IIRC they are resource rich with oil, etc.
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Offline Martok

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #18 on: March 14, 2012, 11:57:16 AM »
IIRC they are resource rich with oil, etc.

I heard something to that effect as well.  Of course, Japan was already keen to get Sakhalin back even before this was the case... 

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Offline Keunert

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #19 on: March 14, 2012, 02:50:27 PM »
yeah heard that too
« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 02:52:59 PM by Keunert »
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Offline Gusington

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2012, 07:22:59 PM »
Periodically, 1-2 times a year, negotiations between Russia and Japan over the Sakhalin Islands make it into the press too.
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Offline Mr. Bigglesworth

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #21 on: March 14, 2012, 08:11:44 PM »
why do you always think that the invasion of the japanese main island would be such a bloody mess?
with an even larger superiority in air and artillery assets than in europe Japan might have lost a lot of its fighting capability.
the german did not surrender on any mentionable scale but outnumbered as they were the fighting power was reduced a lot.
wouldn't the same happen in japan? wouldn't they be cut off from oil, steel and whatever?

One need only look to the islands - especially Saipan - where the Japanese fought to get a preview of what was in store.

The Japanese during WWII were fanatical to the last man. Germans, when outnumbered and defeated sometimes (maybe often) surrendered. The Japanese never did. Or never did to an extent that mattered.

I remember a news piece from when I was a kid. Nixon was still President IIRC. It was the 1970s and on one of the Pacific Islands (I want to say Philippines) this old guy wandered out of the jungle and finally decided it might be time to accept that the war was over. He'd been hiding for 40 years.

In the Japanese home islands they were teaching women and children to fight with sharpened sticks.

Fighting the Japanese would have been a nightmare. The projected casualties were 500,000 US. I suspect that number is underestimated.

At the WWII museum in New Orleans there is a picture on display showing the amount of destruction on Japan's major cities. These vary, but it is fair to say that roughly 45% of every major city had been bombed to rubble. And the Japanese were just getting started to fight.

"Nightmare" is not a strong enough word to describe the scenario of invading the Japanese home islands.


My grandfather fought the Japs over Asia, mostly in India. He was in both great wars. I can vouch for the sharpened sticks line for both sides in that theatre from his account. They had all run out of ammo. Sticks were lighter than empty rifles for all day use of bayonets. He was sticking their soldiers in hand to hand combat. Fortunately they did not have the deep martial arts training of their feudal era. He said he was sticking waves of them that were charging his position. They had no choice but to hold.


I remember a scene in a Chinese restaurant when my grandfather was visiting. He was really angry about being there. My dad was arguing with him he has to let it go the war was many years ago. And they are Chinese not Japanese, they were on our side! I remember my dad turning to me saying "Blood hell, he's thinking he's using a bayonet!" I looked to see Grandad arguing with a waiter for fish and chips with his arms making repeated shovelling motions. I didn't understand it, I was 7 or 8 at the time. He took that hatred with him to the grave. War really screws over the soldiers.
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Offline LongBlade

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #22 on: March 14, 2012, 08:16:08 PM »
Hell of a story, Kev. I can't imagine what those guys went through. Nobody understood PTSD.

I guess the best you could do was head down to the VFW, get plowed with your buds, and hope you didn't dream about it.

Offline Keunert

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2012, 01:30:09 AM »
i've got one PTSD syndrom story to tell:

in the austrian neighbourhood of my grandfathers house there was one strange home i felt really uneasy about (i was a kid then). the garden was completely empty, only grass no walls, no plants nothing. all the windows of the home were shut with metal plates (you could call it Zombie proof).

an old man was living there but was seldomly seen and called crazy. he was a ww2 war veteran. when he finally died they found a bunker in the basement of his home and this was where he lived and probably felt save.

very scary. at least he did nothing Fritzl like down there.
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Offline Gusington

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2012, 08:46:09 AM »
My Grandfather was totally changed by WWII. My father in law, in the Army Reserves, didn't fight overseas in Vietnam but lost almost all of his friends to the war. I was changed by 9/11 in ways that remain to be seen. And on and on.
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Offline Keunert

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #25 on: March 22, 2012, 05:07:41 PM »
and i believe some have even been changed by their struggle with HoI 3 and PoN .
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Offline Martok

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #26 on: March 23, 2012, 03:43:47 AM »
^  I can't decide if I should facepalm or laugh at that one. 

 
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"I like to think of it not as an excuse but more like Pavlovian Response." - Sir Slash

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Offline LongBlade

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #27 on: March 23, 2012, 07:00:49 AM »
^  I can't decide if I should facepalm or laugh at that one.

I did both - because it was both funny and true.

Offline besilarius

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2012, 07:08:48 PM »
http://www.zenoswarbirdvideos.com/MATINEE.html

 Here is a link to a site with great videos.  They change the free ones every month, so the list will change in two days.
Right now, they have the WWII Defence News movie of the Battle of Leyte Gulf.  It is clearly not a comprehensive, or critical, treatment of the battle.  However, there are some really good shots of the ships and planes involved in the battle.
Around eight minutes in, there is a segment covering the Surigao Strait fighting.  Some good sequences of ships firing their main guns.
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Offline DoctorQuest

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Re: Could Japan have won in the Pacific?
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2012, 08:40:38 PM »
If you've never read "Flyboys: A True Story of Courage" by James Bradley, I would recommend it. A lot of background on why each side fought as they did.

I would say as with most wars it all comes down to supply. Both the USSR and the US had almost inexhaustable supplies of both men and material and the supplies were well protected.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2012, 08:20:59 AM by DoctorQuest »
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