Author Topic: Barbarossa or D-Day?  (Read 5747 times)

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Offline pawelj

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Re: Barbarossa or D-Day?
« Reply #45 on: July 01, 2013, 06:59:18 AM »
The Eastern Front was the central front of WWII...in the minds of German and Soviet belligerents, German race policy, Lebensraum and about 100 other points. Even the UK amd US knew the Eastern Front was paramount, even if they would not admit it publicly.
It was certainly in the Soviet minds, not so much in Hitler's after 1943. Remember that he views were formed by WWI. Any successfull landing in the Western Europe puts his enemies much closer to Germany then the Eastern front was in 1943. It was the US forces that were first to to capture German city of Aachen in 1944, so Hitler's being more worried about the West was entirely justified. For the Western Allies Eastern from would provide some distraction of forces, but not as much as it as being assumed. You need to look at the level of supplies and equipment sent to East and West after 1943. And even before 1943, Africa Korps with its 3 divisions (still maintaning the old, larger OOB), plus supporting units was equipped with enough vehicles to equip 70 odd standard divisions on the Eastern front.

"Britain and France had to choose between war and dishonour. They chose dishonour. They will have war." - Winston Churchill


Offline Gusington

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Re: Barbarossa or D-Day?
« Reply #46 on: July 01, 2013, 07:42:23 AM »
Yes to all of the above...which explains the German collapse, defeat and surrender!

Thanks for the book above Bes, added to my list too :)
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Offline W8taminute

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Re: Barbarossa or D-Day?
« Reply #47 on: July 01, 2013, 08:33:51 AM »
...And even before 1943, Africa Korps with its 3 divisions (still maintaning the old, larger OOB), plus supporting units was equipped with enough vehicles to equip 70 odd standard divisions on the Eastern front.

I'm struggling with this claim.  The Afrika Korps was in a constant state of either being supplied with the minimum necessary to fight or being undersupplied.  They didn't get the best equipment all the time either because the eastern front were soaking them up or the cargo was sunk in the Mediterranean.  By 1943 sure there were some good pieces of equipment in Tunisia but at that point it was too little too late. 
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Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: Barbarossa or D-Day?
« Reply #48 on: July 01, 2013, 09:29:07 AM »
Ive never seen any evidence that any German unit in Africa was ever up to full strength.  ;)
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Offline bob48

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Re: Barbarossa or D-Day?
« Reply #49 on: July 01, 2013, 11:46:21 AM »
At one point, the DAK reported that they had 'Sufficient equipment, but insufficent men'

Here are a couple of good books;

'Rommels Desert War; The Life and Death of the Afrika Korps' by Samuel.W.Mitcham, Jr.
'Exit Rommel. The Tunisian campaign, 1942-43' by Bruce Allen Watson.
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Offline besilarius

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Re: Barbarossa or D-Day?
« Reply #50 on: July 01, 2013, 04:47:57 PM »
After Gazala, most of Rommel's transport for his invasion of Egypt were captured british vehicles.  (Battle of El Alamein, Fred Majdalany.  This is a good book, but his other one on Monte Cassino is better.  He was involved in both battles as an infantry commander.)

In regards to the over equipment.  It is possibly worth noting that one of 90Light's infantry regiments (361st I think) was composed of ex French Foreign Legionaires.  They were often starved for equipment but made up for it with creative scavenging.  Siegfried Westphal, Rommel's Operations officer (Ia), reported once that while driving near 90Light, Rommel told him to lock up the spare wheel on their van.  Otherwise, it would shortly disappear.  Shocked, Westphal asked, "They would not dare to steal the army commander's equipment."  Rommel reportedly just gave him an ironic shrug in reply.

Reportedly, this story took on a life of it's own.  Years later, at the French Foreign Legion headquarters in Corsica, among their wartime booty was a worn down tire, that had a simple label attached.  "FML Rommel's tire."
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Offline GDS_Starfury

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Re: Barbarossa or D-Day?
« Reply #51 on: July 01, 2013, 06:08:39 PM »
is there anything you dont have a side story for?  :)
Gus - I use sweatpants with flannel shorts to soak up my crotch sweat.

Banzai Cat - There is no "partial credit" in grammar. Like anal sex. It's either in, or it's not.

Mirth - We learned long ago that they key isn't to outrun Star, it's to outrun Gus.

Martok - I don't know if it's possible to have an "anti-boner"...but I now have one.

Gus - Celery is vile and has no reason to exist. Like underwear on Star.


Offline W8taminute

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Re: Barbarossa or D-Day?
« Reply #52 on: July 01, 2013, 06:52:10 PM »
Brilliant story besilarius.  Thanks for sharing.   8)
Forgive me my old friend.  But I must use all my experience...to get home.

Offline besilarius

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Re: Barbarossa or D-Day?
« Reply #53 on: July 01, 2013, 06:57:53 PM »
Oh yes, but what fun would it be to not know?

If we ever should get together for a beer, ask me about Admiral John Bulkely's career after They Were Expendable, or Ned Beach on Trigger.  Bulkely was in charge of the Board of Inspection and Survey and ripped me a spare ahole in 1976.
Beach went to Annapolis with my dad, and I tagged along to their reunions.  Had to work hard to try and remember some great sea stories.
“Most gods throw dice, but Fate plays chess, and you don’t find out until too late that he’s been playing with two queens all along”.  Terry Pratchett.

During filming of Airplane, Leslie Nielsen used a whoopee cushion to keep the cast off-balance. Hays said that Nielsen "played that thing like a maestro"

Tallulah Bankhead: "I'll come and make love to you at five o'clock. If I'm late, start without me."

"When all other trusts fail, turn to Flashman." — Abraham Lincoln.

"I have enjoyed very warm relations with my two husbands."
"With your eyes closed?"
"That helped."  Lauren Bacall

Master Chiefs are sneaky, dastardly, and snarky miscreants who thrive on the tears of Ensigns and belly dancers.   Admiral Gerry Bogan.