Game programming languages

[Toonces]

Hey all.

I have an interest in attempting to write a computer game program.  If I wanted to write a hex-and-counter type wargame, what programming language would you recommend, and why?

As an entering argument, I'd basically be learning to program from scratch, so ease of use has to figure high on the list.  Also, price matters.

As a follow-up question, how does your answer change for a FPS-type game?

Same entering arguments.

Thanks,
Toonces

[Staggerwing]

For the FPS game probably Unity since it is fairly easy to use, with a GUI. You still need to learn some coding to do the tricky stuff and if you want bells and whistles you have to pay for the pro versions but the basic program is free to D/L. You could probably make a hex game as well but making a nice one might actually be more work because of the AI and related rules of engagement, supply, and whatnot. I'm a complete noob AFA programming goes so hopefully you will get some real answers from the experten hereabouts

http://unity3d.com/unity/

[LongBlade]

Hmm.

Not being a developer (though I've had some general programming classes - and was on the advisory board for WPI's game development curriculum) I'm not sure I'm your best source of info. That said, I'll toss in my perspective and hope it helps.

Probably you should use whatever language you actually know. If you're starting from scratch I guess I'd recommend whatever everyone else uses. Which is probably everything under the sun.

If you look at Tiller's games, they appear to me to be made in Powerbuilder - an old competitor to Microsoft's Visual Basic. Visual Basic is probably the development tool of choice I'd recommend for classic hexagonal wargaming, but remember it's not just he visual overlay - there is also an underlying database which holds all that precious stuff like armor thickness, gun range, penetration, and the associated logic for blasting a tank at, say 1000 yards.

The FPS stuff, I'm less sure about. Some games offer you the ability to craft new levels. I'd recommend starting to play with that as it can be somewhat complex to design a level on your own. The best FPS games have dozens of devs working on them for a couple of years. Call of Duty isn't programmed by one guy in his basement who works on it after he's surfed for the afternoon ;)

In terms of game design keep in mind there are several elements. Broadly speaking they can be broken down into two spectra.

Creative - Technical
Artistic - Logic

Those areas can overlap. Those gorgeous explosions you see in Call of Duty are both artistically masterful and technically founded in some mad programming skills.

Conversely, you also have people who write plots (creative), and you also have folks who crunch the ballistics (math/logic/programming). Again, the big titles will have artistic directors as well as technical project managers for both visual and underlying physical programming. They all work together and if they're successful they can sell a billion dollars worth of a game in a month.

If they're not successful...well, we've all seen what that can look like.

I believe guys that build their games from the ground up sometimes code in C++. But that language is much more complex (and equally more robust) than, say, Visual Basic. It all depends on how much time you want to invest in learning some new skills.

Hopefully that provides some insight.

[Capn Darwin]

We are using Delphi XE2 with a handful of 3rd party software for Flashpoint Campaigns Red Storm. Also offers some cross platform capabilities.

[bayonetbrant]

I have an interest in attempting to write a computer game program.  If I wanted to write a hex-and-counter type wargame, what programming language would you recommend, and why?

Back up a step -

Are you doing this b/c you want/need to write a program for some other reason, and you're choosing to do a wargame just 'cuz?

Or are you actually interested in making a game to explore a particular scenario or event?

Or are you trying to do something specific in a rules engine that you feel needs its own game to investigate?

I'm asking b/c there are a metric monkeyload of games out there, and it seems like doing some scenario editing or mod work (especially if its for, say, FPG where the devs are close at hand and can be hornswaggled into working with you) would be much, much easier than writing a game from scratch.

Keep in mind, too, that a 2-player game is going to be much easier to build than a solo game b/c you don't have to program an AI into a 2-player game.

Ask the devs 'round here - moving counters around a map and calculating damage from an airstrike is the easy part.  The hard part is programming the AI to move the counters around a map while consciously avoiding the airstrikes...

[carnator]

You asked what language...so the answer is C++
But, I think you meant to ask what engine / tools should I use so I don't need to learn how to program...?  (obviously if you can't program then you are just using the tools provided, and not creating anything "new").

[eyebiter]

Unreal offers a development kit for FPS games.  Free for non-commercial use, or $99 + 25% of profits above 50k for independent developers

http://www.unrealengine.com/udk/

[Toonces]

Ok, well then I have a couple of "specific" ideas I'm interested in exploring.

And, I'll caveat everything by saying that this is mostly cloud talk right now; the reality of me actually sitting down and pushing out a true game are slim.  But, depending on how my free time evolves over the next couple of months, I might just give it a shot.

Game 1:  I have an idea of converting the boardgame "Carrier" into a computer version.  I realize copyright and all that- just bear with me for now.  I think that Carrier is a good candidate for a computer game because 1) I'm interested in it, 2) It is solo and the AI is driven by tables and rules that can be interpreted into a computer language very readily, 3) With the exception of Carriers at War, tactical CV vs CV combat hasn't been done well. 

Game 2:  I like War of the Roses, but what I really want to do is play the London Tournament part of the game as a game unto itself.  The idea would be to just have a whole tournament world that allows the player to take a knight and fight through the lists for glory.  This might have been done already in Mount and Blade, and in fact modding M&B is probably a more viable alternative.

But if I were to create a FPS game from scratch, that's the idea I have.

Hopefully that clarifies where I was going with my questions...

[besilarius]

Toonces, with your interest in carrier combat, if you haven't found the books of Barrett Tilman "Clash of Carriers", do yourself a favor.
Add his stuff to Shattered Sword (Midway) and you've got a very clear presentation of how the two navies air elements worked.

[MikeGER]

Toonces
how about Lua (script)
and test your first programming learning skills with manipulating  favorite stuff in the DCS World  8) you know and love?
= instant gratification when "a little AI" Idea with a LUA script  4expl in a mission works like planed...

and your programming skills (solving a problem with math, function, loops, conditions,.. )  carying over to any other language you may later chose for your games.

programming can be splitt of in: building an algorithm which does the trick for your needs, and getting it writen down according to the unforgiving complicated syntax/ruleset of a given language.
If you know how to solve, its just adjusting to the different syntax.

Now the crux is:, The easier and forgiving the language to write in, the slower it usually execute and the farer its from the hardware.  So a critical realtime problem will ask for a less compliant to us language, down to even machine code itself ...will not happen with your project... but propably with for example Raytheon's, Rheinmetall, EADS needs

the hardboild answer is of course: C++
...but not nesseary for a wargame

for FPS i think i would also name Unity, but how large a team you will hire to get a decent result in decent time with all the art and 3d-modelling stuff to build.

[Toonces]

Hey Mike,
Yes, I had an idea to start working on some sort of dynamic campaign generator in lua for DCS.  I've been hesitant only because I haven't really explored the robustness of the supplied editor.

Lua is on my short list, though, for the exact reason you mention.

[Toonces]

Necro-bumping this old thread.  I've taken the first baby step and ordered two books from Amazon.com about game programming.  One is just an overview of game design in general, the other is a general look at how a computer game is structured. 

I think they'll be good fundamental building blocks for me to sort of wrap my head around how to turn my ideas into code.

Once I have a grasp of the fundamentals I'm going to look harder at what language or tool is best. 

[GDS_Starfury]

Id recommend figuring out what game you want to make and then find a similar game already out there and mod it.

[LongBlade]

Id recommend figuring out what game you want to make and then find a similar game already out there and mod it.

That's a good idea.

Star, maybe we can apply that to your Panthers in the Fog review. I'll send you a review I wrote and you can mod it. Just replace "Orcs Must Die!" with "Panthers in the Fog." and you'll be golden.

http://grogheads.com/rev-omd2.html

[Bison]

Id recommend figuring out what game you want to make and then find a similar game already out there and mod it.

That's a good idea.

Star, maybe we can apply that to your Panthers in the Fog review. I'll send you a review I wrote and you can mod it. Just replace "Orcs Must Die!" with "Panthers in the Fog." and you'll be golden.

http://grogheads.com/rev-omd2.html

HAHAHA!!!!!!!!!   OMFG!  Classic.