Author Topic: Did you know?  (Read 8115 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Staggerwing

  • Blunderbuster
  • ****
  • Posts: 20657
  • "Today your love... tomorrow the World!"
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #15 on: February 21, 2012, 03:10:05 PM »
JH,
Your post got me googling for more companies and led me to a story I ran across about the company Siemans.
They were one of the manufacturers of the Gas Ovens used at some of the Death Camps. They also survived the
war to do business, eventually in a big way. About ten years ago they decided to trademark a name for their new
kitchen appliances, chief among them being their new gas cooking stoves. The name they chose? The German word
for cyclone which was....

...Zyklon.

After a howl of public outrage Seimans stated that they were not aware of the connotations of the word.
The facepalm for that one could cause a concussion.

That is certainly interesting in a seriously disturbing way.  Still, if you want to get technical, Zyklon-B was manufactured by Dessauer Werke für Zucker and Chemische Werke, which acquired components for the chemical from IG Farben, Schering AG and Dessauer Schlempe.  I thought most of the ovens (crematoria) were manufactured by J.A. Topf and Sons?  I know Seimans was a supported of the Nazi party and did build factories near concentration camps to make use of the slave labor.  However, I thought they mostly manufactured electrical components and in fact, I believe the company actually sued someone who claimed Seimans was involved in the manufacture of the crematoria, and won the case by demonstrating they did not.

Correcting my post for JH:
I should have said that they manufactured components that were used in some of the ovens, switches and such.
The gas was, of course, used in a different type of facility. The connection of the two might not be technical but
could be measured sometimes in mere meters of physical separation.
Vituđ ér enn - eđa hvat?  -Voluspa

Nothing really rocks and nothing really rolls and nothing's ever worth the cost...

"Don't you look at me that way..." -the Abyss
 
'When searching for a meaningful embrace, sometimes my self respect took second place' -Iggy Pop, Cry for Love

... this will go down on your permanent record... -the Violent Femmes, 'Kiss Off'-


Offline Gusington

  • The Jewish Missile
  • Global Moderator
  • Tercio
  • *****
  • Posts: 41960
  • You must be at most 'this tall' to ride the Gus.
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2012, 11:42:09 AM »
IBM supplied the computing equipment (I hesitate to use the word 'computers' since they weren't that advanced yet) that was used to run Germany's Final Solution. Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh were also fans of the Nazi Party as well as being public anti-semites and Germanophiles.

We have to put these kinds of things in a pre-1939 perspective. Anti-semitism was fashionable in elite circles in that era in both Europe and the US. To an extent it still is today, but it's not as obvious.

Germany also had millions of international sympathizers and was also viewed as a 'brave new world,' carrying the torch into the future. War was on the horizon and many people saw it coming, but in the pre-1939 West no one could be certain that by siding with Germany and the Nazis that they would be on the losing side.

I am not trying to defend organizations and people that sided with Germany and the Axis. But it's natural for people to want to be on the winning side.
"...feels like a 39.99 game to me.”

- Grim Reaper, Grogheads Seer

Offline LongBlade

  • Unsanctioned Psyker
  • Blunderbuster
  • ****
  • Posts: 27192
  • No Regerts
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2012, 01:27:36 PM »
IBM supplied the computing equipment (I hesitate to use the word 'computers' since they weren't that advanced yet) that was used to run Germany's Final Solution. Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh were also fans of the Nazi Party as well as being public anti-semites and Germanophiles.

We have to put these kinds of things in a pre-1939 perspective. Anti-semitism was fashionable in elite circles in that era in both Europe and the US. To an extent it still is today, but it's not as obvious.

Germany also had millions of international sympathizers and was also viewed as a 'brave new world,' carrying the torch into the future. War was on the horizon and many people saw it coming, but in the pre-1939 West no one could be certain that by siding with Germany and the Nazis that they would be on the losing side.

I am not trying to defend organizations and people that sided with Germany and the Axis. But it's natural for people to want to be on the winning side.

To which it could be added that we really hadn't seen the darkest of the dark side of fascism in 1939.

In no way does that excuse what happened, but in some sense a supporter of fascism in American in 1939 is a far cry from one in 1942 (when we were finally at war), or 1946 (when the atrocities were known).

Offline Gusington

  • The Jewish Missile
  • Global Moderator
  • Tercio
  • *****
  • Posts: 41960
  • You must be at most 'this tall' to ride the Gus.
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2012, 01:30:21 PM »
^Yes. On top of that could be added that there were millions of American and British fascists. Fascism was seen as totally different pre-1939 compared to fascism post-1945.
"...feels like a 39.99 game to me.”

- Grim Reaper, Grogheads Seer

Offline LongBlade

  • Unsanctioned Psyker
  • Blunderbuster
  • ****
  • Posts: 27192
  • No Regerts
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2012, 01:52:43 PM »
I should probably correct myself somewhat. There were warnings coming from the Pacific. The Japanese were acting like wild beasts in China and it was getting news coverage in the US prior to 1939.

But one could argue that there were a number of reasons why the conduct of the Japanese wouldn't be seen in the same light as Europeans. The warnings were there for those to see or overlook.

That said, I still stand by my above statement & Gus'.

Offline Keunert

  • Man-at-Arms
  • *****
  • Posts: 1542
  • he who wears rabbit ears, has libido
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2012, 02:28:39 PM »
i would also think that for a true capitalist it doesn't matter from whom he is getting the money from. the sins of Krupp and others most probably would have been done by other industrialists too: there was just too much money to be made than to consider ethics.
Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
Oscar Wilde

Special K has too much class.
Windigo

Offline LongBlade

  • Unsanctioned Psyker
  • Blunderbuster
  • ****
  • Posts: 27192
  • No Regerts
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2012, 03:03:08 PM »
i would also think that for a true capitalist it doesn't matter from whom he is getting the money from. the sins of Krupp and others most probably would have been done by other industrialists too: there was just too much money to be made than to consider ethics.

Well, capitalism is probably influenced by patriotism. Krupp - I simply do not know the story.

But I am well aware of American firms - like Higgens - whose motive for profit blended perfectly with helping the war effort. What German capitalists knew and when they knew it is a discussion we could dig into for months.


Offline Jarhead0331

  • Judge Advocate General
  • Administrator
  • Arquebusier
  • *
  • Posts: 12346
  • Global Moderator, General Counsel, Heavy Weapons
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2012, 03:07:50 PM »
What German capitalists knew and when they knew it is a discussion we could dig into for months.

Do you really think so?  The Nazis never hid their agenda and once the concentration camps were in full swing, well, the stench of murder on that scale simply cannot be hidden.  Germans, and the world, knew.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Offline LongBlade

  • Unsanctioned Psyker
  • Blunderbuster
  • ****
  • Posts: 27192
  • No Regerts
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2012, 03:12:45 PM »
What German capitalists knew and when they knew it is a discussion we could dig into for months.

Do you really think so?  The Nazis never hid their agenda and once the concentration camps were in full swing, well, the stench of murder on that scale simply cannot be hidden.  Germans, and the world, knew.

I have no idea who knew what. I have done research on the horrors of the holocaust in general, and have a good grasp of the military situation as it evolved, but I have devoted zero time peering into the souls of German men in the middle of the war.

Offline Jarhead0331

  • Judge Advocate General
  • Administrator
  • Arquebusier
  • *
  • Posts: 12346
  • Global Moderator, General Counsel, Heavy Weapons
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #24 on: February 24, 2012, 03:17:50 PM »

I have no idea who knew what. I have done research on the horrors of the holocaust in general, and have a good grasp of the military situation as it evolved, but I have devoted zero time peering into the souls of German men in the middle of the war.

Do you think you really need to "peer into German souls" to conclude that knowledge of German atrocity was widespread?  Take Dachau.  It was opened on March 22, 1933 (51 days after Hitler rose to power) and was located a mere 16km from Munich.  Its estimated that over 32,000 people were killed there.  Doesn't logic dictate that death on this scale could not be concealed?  I don't think you need to be a mind reader to figure this out, you just need to have, respectfully, common sense.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Offline Keunert

  • Man-at-Arms
  • *****
  • Posts: 1542
  • he who wears rabbit ears, has libido
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #25 on: February 24, 2012, 03:32:13 PM »
if you tried really hard not wanting to know what jews, gipsies, homosexuals, communist would have to endure under a regime that openly killed children and adults with mental illness... well maybe you wouldn't know. unless your friends would tell you some stories from the eastern front.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_T4
Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.
Oscar Wilde

Special K has too much class.
Windigo

Offline LongBlade

  • Unsanctioned Psyker
  • Blunderbuster
  • ****
  • Posts: 27192
  • No Regerts
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #26 on: February 24, 2012, 03:42:13 PM »

I have no idea who knew what. I have done research on the horrors of the holocaust in general, and have a good grasp of the military situation as it evolved, but I have devoted zero time peering into the souls of German men in the middle of the war.

Do you think you really need to "peer into German souls" to conclude that knowledge of German atrocity was widespread?  Take Dachau.  It was opened on March 22, 1933 (51 days after Hitler rose to power) and was located a mere 16km from Munich.  Its estimated that over 32,000 people were killed there.  Doesn't logic dictate that death on this scale could not be concealed?  I don't think you need to be a mind reader to figure this out, you just need to have, respectfully, common sense.

I'm sure you're right. I had no idea it opened in '33.

Offline mirth

  • Tercio
  • ******
  • Posts: 48615
  • Cardboard Harlot
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #27 on: February 24, 2012, 03:44:07 PM »
I knew the Hugo Boss thing thanks to an episode of Archer.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can’t ‘un’ until you ‘pre’, son." - Gus

Offline Staggerwing

  • Blunderbuster
  • ****
  • Posts: 20657
  • "Today your love... tomorrow the World!"
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #28 on: February 24, 2012, 04:18:35 PM »
How is Archer? I've never watched it. Is it a spoof or is it 'hard-boiled'?
Vituđ ér enn - eđa hvat?  -Voluspa

Nothing really rocks and nothing really rolls and nothing's ever worth the cost...

"Don't you look at me that way..." -the Abyss
 
'When searching for a meaningful embrace, sometimes my self respect took second place' -Iggy Pop, Cry for Love

... this will go down on your permanent record... -the Violent Femmes, 'Kiss Off'-

Offline besilarius

  • Landsknecht
  • *******
  • Posts: 5154
  • ringmaster at circus amateur night
Re: Did you know?
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2012, 04:42:27 PM »
Sigh!
Another reason to like Eisenhower.  After seeing Dachau, somehow he knew there would be Holocaust deniers.  He made sure that everything was caught on film.
If everything had not been so well documented, most people would not believe that such atrocities could have happened, or on such an industrial scale.
“Most gods throw dice, but Fate plays chess, and you don’t find out until too late that he’s been playing with two queens all along”.  Terry Pratchett.

During filming of Airplane, Leslie Nielsen used a whoopee cushion to keep the cast off-balance. Hays said that Nielsen "played that thing like a maestro"

Tallulah Bankhead: "I'll come and make love to you at five o'clock. If I'm late, start without me."

"When all other trusts fail, turn to Flashman." — Abraham Lincoln.

"I have enjoyed very warm relations with my two husbands."
"With your eyes closed?"
"That helped."  Lauren Bacall

Master Chiefs are sneaky, dastardly, and snarky miscreants who thrive on the tears of Ensigns and belly dancers.   Admiral Gerry Bogan.