Guy Gavriel Kay

[Toonces]

I'm looking at Tigana again and I'm more like 1/4 through rather than 1/2.  I'll post more thoughts when I'm further into the book.

Kay can take a bit to warm up.  I had to start the Chinese one 3 times I think, before I crossed the "can't put it down" threshold.

Ok, so I have really been trying hard to get into Tigana.  I'm 300 pages in...that's halfway.  I stick by my above assertions.  This book just plain sucks.  If it wasn't Kay I would've bailed a long time ago.

I keep thinking it's going to pick up...it's going to pick up...but it never picks up. 

Once again I'm going to set this one aside for a while.  I just downloaded Game of Thrones Book 5, so I think I'm going to move on for a bit and maybe circle back around to Tigana later.  I'm very disappointed.

[MetalDog]

I haven't read Tigana, but I have read Book 5 of GoT.  Disappointed isn't the word :(

[FarAway Sooner]

I enjoyed Tigana immensely.  But maybe I'm a freak?

[Toonces]

Ok, I stopped Tigana on page 302.  Last night I didn't have anything else to read so with trepidation I dug back into Tigana.  It turns out that it picks up and starts becoming very interesting on page 315.  Now I'm fully involved...I think I read about 75 pages last night. 

I'm going to finish it now.  I'll let you know the verdict when I finish it.

I only got about 15 pages into GoT 5 before I put it back down.  Could it be that I don't really care what happens to all those characters at this point?  Too much of a good thing?

[MetalDog]

Dance With Dragons was just terrible, in my opinion.  Part of the problem is that it had been several years since I last read the first four books, so, I missed some of the more subtle and obscure plot points, but, it was the meat of the book that really disappointed.  It just seemed that EVERYTHING was at a glacial pace.  Dany sat interminably somewhere while Tyrion slooooooooooowly made his way to where she was.  And it seemed that any other characters moved in molasses, too.  Martin, on his LiveJournal website, http://grrm.livejournal.com/ spent a lot of time alluding to a, "Gordian knot," concerning DWD.  It's supposedly what kept him from finishing the book with anything approaching alacrity.  After reading it, I say he just got lazy and started throwing words at it.

[Toonces]

^ Ugh.

Ok so I just finished DWD.  A friend said, "It plods along, and you'll almost give up on it.  But then you'll get to this one part and you wont' be able to put it down!"

That part is 64% in, for those of you reading on Kindle.  And it IS pretty good.  And the book does pick up after that.

But I can't help but agree with the most popular Amazon reviews.  This and Book 4 should have been condensed into one 700 page book.  Not one book but one 3/4 length book.

Book 5 just drags on and on, and frankly a lot could have been trimmed with no loss of story.  Or even interesting stuff.  GRRM is just throwing words to see what sticks.

I'm curious to see what happens in Book 6, but I'm not in any hurry.  I almost don't care if he dies at this point.  I thought I'd be all giggly at the thought of a new book, but I kind of don't even care now.  Seriously, this series needs to be tightened up.  Books 1-3 were amazing but then, man alive what a bummer.

[MetalDog]

It's my understanding, again from his LiveJournal page, that a lot of the new book was written concurrently with Dance With Dragons.  So, I will assume, rightly or wrongly, that it will follow the same formula as DWD.  Boo hiss :(

[Toonces]

I am kind of in a fiction black hole right now, nothing holding my attention.  So, for one last time, I've gone back to Tigana.  It's been so long since I left off that I have to start from the beginning again...for the third time.

So this is it. I either finish it this time around, or I give it away.  Enough is enough. 

Strangely enough, I was talking to a friend about Kay today and I'm calling Sailing to Sarantium my favorite, #1 book of all time, followed by King's The Stand.  How one book can rock so hard and another suck so bad I don't know, but there it is.

One last try...

[Martok]

Let us know if you manage to get through it. 

Kay is still near -- if not at the very top -- of my list of authors I need to check out.  Just gotta work through my existing backlog first...  ::) 

[Toonces]

Alright, I finished Tigana tonight.

Wow.  Just wow.

It really drags on for the first half...about 300 pages.  The book is about 675 pages, but the print is large so it's not as intimidating as that might sound.  It took me three tries to get through it.  That's not unusual for me and Kay's books; I think both Last Light of the Sun and Under Heaven took me two tries before I got into them.  Kay always starts out slow.  He builds parts of a handful of plots for the first quarter or so of the book and then, always at some mid-point he'll bring a few together and BAM you're hooked into the story.  Tigana takes longer than usual, about a full half of the book or more before it really starts getting to the tie-in.  But when the tie-in happens, wow, Kay can fucking write.

I call Sailing my favorite Kay book because, although it was slow to develop, there were some very interesting parts during the development, and more, there was a stunning climactic scene  (I'm talking about the chariot race at the end, if you've read the book...some of the most- no, THE most- exciting fiction I've ever read) and the end was just fantastic.  In Tigana, Kay does much the same, although maybe not quite as dramatically.

What struck me about the two books is how he can build to a climax scene and then hold you there, spellbound.  I literally could not read fast enough to find out what happened.  He draws you in and then just prolongs the suspense, but in an artful way, not contrived.  And, at least for me, I can't ever figure out how the plot is going to turn out.  He seems to interject this ironic sadness into the ends...not straightforward like Ned Stark getting his head cut off, but more of a "man, what a bummer" type of sadness...like love lost, or missed opportunities.

Tigana isn't a good book because of the story necessarily.  It's a good book because Kay weaves this story for 300 pages, and you sort of know where it's going, and then he grabs you gently by the hand, says, "one more page"  and as you follow him into the woods you find yourself suddenly standing at the precipice of a 1000' drop into a river full of piranhas and crocodiles, chasing unicorns over this 2000' waterfall with a rainbow over top and a pot of gold enticing you at the bottom, held by a leprechaun of course.   I can say, again, like Sailing, that once I hit the stride I literally couldn't put the book down.  I read almost non-stop from 2pm to 11pm tonight, about 250 pages, so that I could see how it turned out.  It was that good.

So, I give Tigana two firm thumbs up, but you have to be prepared to stick with it.  The last half of the book is worth your investment of time, and I think that the investment you make in the characters during the first half of the book makes the second half that much more rewarding.  Like, you feel bought into the story and actually care how it turns out.

Kay rocks.

[Toonces]

I've been combing through the Amazon.com reviews and I think this one is pretty good, and sums up my own feelings:

"Have you ever ripped through the first half of a book only to find yourself slowing down toward the end? Not because you've lost interest, but because you know the story will end and you're afraid you know how it's going to end and you fret for the characters you've grown to love?

Guy Gavriel Kay's "Tigana" is such a book, though I won't spoil things and tell you if the ending met those expectations.

I was lucky enough to find a used copy at my local Friends of the Library for fifty cents. I feel like I need to send Kay a check to make up the difference of its true value, because there is so much in this book for both readers and writers.

Before I gush much more, I will say it's not a perfect book and it's not for every reader, but it's damn close to the first and I believe attractive to both fantasy and historical fiction buffs.

Yes, the pace sometimes slows down and there are bouts of repetitive introspection. But even with walls of text, the realistic history of this fictional world is so intriguing that the pages never stop turning.

The Palm, a peninsula of quarrelsome provinces, finds itself at the mercy of two competing superstates each led by a powerful sorcerer. Twenty years prior to the book's opening chapter, the province of Tigana rose up to challenge one of them, Brandon of Ygrath, killing his son and incurring a wrath that has nearly obliterated Tigana's identity from the realm's collective memory.

Nearly.

Now, Tigana's sons and daughters are putting events into motion in order to bring the name back and restore what once was.

"Tigana" is supposed to be modeled after the fractious city-states of medieval Italy. The worldbuilding is beyond reproach, deftly colored with music, religion, politics, and history. I read somewhere on the Internet that Kay takes his sweet time writing books and may indeed have rooms packed to the ceiling with research material.

After finishing the book, I don't doubt either statement. I also felt a niggling suspicion that George R.R. Martin has a worn out copy sitting on his nightstand. It did come out several years before Game of Thrones and I see a lot of similarities in style.

There's not just a breadth of characters here but so much depth to each one; yet that depth is never explored at the expense of a solid story structure. Kay's characters all have strong goals and equally strong motives. Tension is constantly rising toward the main climax. Subplots tie neatly in to the overall storyline. Major characters follow interesting arcs. Then there are the themes of memory and identity which sit comfortably all the way through.

One of Kay's more interesting techniques is to lead the reader into thinking someone or something is as it seems, then cleverly revealing that someone or something is entirely different soon after. Yet, the twist makes complete logical sense.

I've already begun a second reading and analysis so I can peel back the onion skin hiding the author's tricks.

For some sad reason there is no Kindle version available, but maybe that is rightly so. Tigana seems better served with paper and glue. If a new copy costs too many nickels, please try to find a used one. You'll be glad you did."

By the last 50 pages, I did start to slow down...I just didn't want the story to end.  And I knew there would be triumph, and sadness...there always is.  Ah....what a story.

I Still think Lions of Al-Rassan is the best "first" Kay book, though.  It's the easiest, most straight-forward to read.  Tigana was not easy to stay with...If it had been my first Kay book I don't know that I would have read any others.

[Toonces]

Lastly, while reading the last 75 pages I was concurrently listening to the Skyrim OST and sipping iced rum.  I encourage this for this last part.

The music, if you fast-forward through the dungeon music- actually complements the literature quite well.  It was an amazing, visceral experience. 

[Toonces]

I did not care that much for the Tapestry because his later
books are so much better... or maybe because I do not like Toronto.
But "Tigana" really involved me emotionally and when I was done I cried.
(Well I WAS drunk..but books do not usually do that to me.)
cheers

Last post for the night in this thread.  But I was re-reading through this thread and this post grabbed by interest, besides the ones of me bagging on Tigana.  I actually did cry, just a tiny bit, in the last quarter of the book.  Not full on big-daddy tears, but I teared up a bit and had to wipe my eyes to keep reading.  It was very touching, and sad.

I dunno...Tigana is such a hard book for me to rate because I tend to rate based on start to finish enjoyment, like a Red Storm Rising book is pretty easy to evaluate.  Tigana is much more complicated.  The story isn't complex, but the characters are complex and it takes a while to build all of that in...Kay takes his time and develops things.  By the time I got over the hump the book was great. 

I would agree with Dan, though.  I don't typically cry or get moved by books, but so far Kay had done it twice.   One last time, I'd recommend Tigana for your time, but you simply have to keep plowing past 300 pages.  If you give up, you're missing what makes this book so special. 

[Martok]

Well I'm definitely sold.  Any book that causes you to wax so eloquently -- but without actually being verbose/long-winded -- has to be worth checking out.  :)  Thanks for the review Toonces. 

[Toonces]

Martok,
If you've never read Kay, I recommend either Lions of Al-Rassan or Last Light of the Sun.  Tigana is a tough book.  It's good, but you have to stick with it for a while.  Kay has a certain style, which I really like, but I like even more in his later books when he's developed it more.

Sailing was my favorite, but doesn't seem to have fared as well with his fans.  So save that one for after you have two or three under your belt.

I will say that, like Stephen King, I have never been disappointed with the book once I've finished it.  But Kay is a tough author, for me, to stick with at first.  Almost all of his books I've had to start more than once to finish. 

I look forward to your thoughts once you've finished one or two of his books.