Author Topic: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)  (Read 611 times)

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Offline Ian C

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Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« on: September 15, 2019, 05:20:26 AM »
Manage your own wine estate and vineyard.

On sale and it's actually not bad. Strategy involved and a fun light gaming experience between campaigns.

https://www.gog.com/game/terroir?utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&utm_campaign=20190913_nl_weekend_sale_EN&utm_term=EN&track_click=1&link_id=terroir_game


STEAM demo available:  https://store.steampowered.com/app/559910/Terroir/


« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 07:48:48 AM by Ian C »


Offline Huw the Poo

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2019, 06:54:24 AM »
Steam page

This actually looks pretty fun.  I think I'll pick it up later this week.  Thanks Ian!

Offline Ian C

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2019, 07:47:53 AM »
Steam page

This actually looks pretty fun.  I think I'll pick it up later this week.  Thanks Ian!

You're welcome. It's taught me a little about wine - instead of what I already know (banging headache the morning after, finding strange woman in my bed, etc.).

Offline DennisS

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #3 on: September 15, 2019, 04:00:07 PM »
Don't do it. DON'T BUY THIS GAME.

There is absolutely nothing you can do with a random number weather generation system that will destroy your winery. You can save millions of dollars, you can be fiscally 100% tight..there will come a time when you will have several consecutive years of a 1% chance of occurrence drought, or insects, or SOMETHING.

I have started 20 or more games, and have NEVER made it past year seven. NEVER. The developer WANTS this to be "challenging" ... to the extreme. It hasn't gotten any better since the day it was published.

Offline DennisS

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #4 on: September 15, 2019, 04:20:19 PM »
This is THE most current post on the game:

Quote
i say it again: the game is too random
i have started a new game since a while. first year litterally no rain, second year litterally rain and no sun all the time.

This is worse than roguelike games, where there is balancing.
This is not even close to reality where draughts never last since march to november, nor it can be always rainy since march to november. And most importantly, this can't happen in the same country in two consecutive years. In this game this happens on a regular basis.

This is false challenge. Game is unfair and currently unbalanced and broken.

I went looking, just now, to see if the game was ever fixed and/or balanced. Nope. I am just not going to re-install it. I just won't...I've been down that road many times with this game.

Offline al_infierno

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #5 on: September 15, 2019, 04:42:05 PM »
Hmm.  I live in California and we've been in a near-constant state of drought for about a decade now.  Not sure I get that "a drought can NEVER last X months and can NEVER happen Y years in a row" logic.

Over-reliance on RNG is a legitimate complaint, but it sounds like others don't find it to be as gamebreaking as you do.  Just an observation.
"Don't quote me boy, 'cause I ain't said shit."  -- Eazy-E

Offline Huw the Poo

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #6 on: September 15, 2019, 11:37:02 PM »
Dennis, thanks for the note of caution.  I'll do more research before deciding whether to buy.

Offline Ian C

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2019, 02:52:30 AM »
From what I've read on the STEAM reviews, most (but not all) of the few negative reviews were based on earlier builds but it is definitely a challenging game. It's not an easy game at times.


There's a guide and other tips I copied which might help.



The Perfect Wine

Prune your crop to maintain optimum foliage (mouse over the tile to check).

Take your base yield values and then use this guide to work out where the final values will be:

Crushing. Pigage gives +2 to Tannins.

Fermentation gives -1 Sweetness every 2 weeks.

Pressing gives +1 to Acidity per 10% pressed juices.

Aging in the base barrels gives -1 to Acidity and -2 to Tannins per month.


Acidity and Tannins are important to get as exact as possible values below but there is movement with the other values that can under many circumstances give superior wine.


Loam Soil

Cabernet Sauvignon
Acidity: 6
Sweetness: 4
Tannins: 6

Chardonnay
Acidity: 7
Sweetness: 6
Tannins: 5


Clay Soil

Merlot
Acidity: 7
Sweetness: 5
Tannins: 6

Pinot Noir
Acidity: 6
Sweetness: 5
Tannins: 2


Sandy Soil

Syrah
Acidity: 7
Sweetness: 6
Tannins: 8

Sauvignon Blanc
Acidity: 8
Sweetness: 2
Tannins: 2

Semillon
Acidity: 4
Sweetness: 4
Tannins: 2

Noble Rot Semillon
Acidity: 5
Sweetness: 10
Tannins: 3
In order to get Noble Rot Semillon you need to have the vines affected by Fungal Rot for a month.
This changes it into Noble Rot, which has a -10% yield per month effect.


Grenache and Grenache Rosť
Acidity: 6
Sweetness: 3
Tannins: 5
The only difference for the Rosť is that it needs to be crushed using the Vin Gris Wine Press. The
stats remain the same



Additional Tips


Droughts
Try to store extra bottles and barrels in reserve to sell throughout difficult years. Your 5-star wines will fetch the best prices. Note you can also store wine in the White Oak Barrels if you have them and they won't alter in quality.

White Oak Barrels and Flavors
Get them as soon as you can afford them. They not only give you the perfect Acidity and Tannins,
they also never go below them, meaning you can leave the wine in the barrels for as long as you
want.
Wines have a chance to develop one of three flavors each month it is in a barrel: Fruity, Earthy,
Vanilla, or Buttery. These flavors increase the value of the wine.

Bottled Wine Aging
Don't do it. Waiting years to sell bottled wine, which in real life can drive a price up massively
doesn't seem to do much in Terroir. Admittedly I have only held onto wine for up to 2 years so far,
but in those two years the wine's value went up by only around $3.50 each year.

Ripeness
A ripeness of 7 is actually preferable to 6 or 5. While a 6 or 5 ripeness will get you the perfect
foliage managment bonus (+1 star to final rating) if you are making 5 star wine already you just
don't need it. And a ripeness of 7 can be far easier to work with unless you are making Sauvignon
Blanc, or either Grenache varietal, since they need a low sweetness.

Tavern Bug/Exploit
The Tavern can only sell up to 600 (or 1000 with adjacent Castle Ruins) wines at a time. However,
if you want to sell wines at double the speed, just make sure that you fill both slots with 300 (or
500) wines. They can even be the same vintage. However, in order to do this you need to exit the
Tavern UI and reopen it for the second slot.

The Mayor's Visit
Always keep a couple or more bottles of your best wines in case The Mayor comes for a visit, as he will give you a considerable sum of money for your vineyard. The better the wine, the more money.



« Last Edit: September 16, 2019, 09:04:04 AM by Ian C »

Offline DennisS

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2019, 12:56:59 PM »
From what I've read on the STEAM reviews, most (but not all) of the few negative reviews were based on earlier builds but it is definitely a challenging game. It's not an easy game at times.


There's a guide and other tips I copied which might help.



The Perfect Wine

Prune your crop to maintain optimum foliage (mouse over the tile to check).

Take your base yield values and then use this guide to work out where the final values will be:

Crushing. Pigage gives +2 to Tannins.

Fermentation gives -1 Sweetness every 2 weeks.

Pressing gives +1 to Acidity per 10% pressed juices.

Aging in the base barrels gives -1 to Acidity and -2 to Tannins per month.


Acidity and Tannins are important to get as exact as possible values below but there is movement with the other values that can under many circumstances give superior wine.


Loam Soil

Cabernet Sauvignon
Acidity: 6
Sweetness: 4
Tannins: 6

Chardonnay
Acidity: 7
Sweetness: 6
Tannins: 5


Clay Soil

Merlot
Acidity: 7
Sweetness: 5
Tannins: 6

Pinot Noir
Acidity: 6
Sweetness: 5
Tannins: 2


Sandy Soil

Syrah
Acidity: 7
Sweetness: 6
Tannins: 8

Sauvignon Blanc
Acidity: 8
Sweetness: 2
Tannins: 2

Semillon
Acidity: 4
Sweetness: 4
Tannins: 2

Noble Rot Semillon
Acidity: 5
Sweetness: 10
Tannins: 3
In order to get Noble Rot Semillon you need to have the vines affected by Fungal Rot for a month.
This changes it into Noble Rot, which has a -10% yield per month effect.


Grenache and Grenache Rosť
Acidity: 6
Sweetness: 3
Tannins: 5
The only difference for the Rosť is that it needs to be crushed using the Vin Gris Wine Press. The
stats remain the same



Additional Tips


Droughts
Try to store extra bottles and barrels in reserve to sell throughout difficult years. Your 5-star wines will fetch the best prices. Note you can also store wine in the White Oak Barrels if you have them and they won't alter in quality.

White Oak Barrels and Flavors
Get them as soon as you can afford them. They not only give you the perfect Acidity and Tannins,
they also never go below them, meaning you can leave the wine in the barrels for as long as you
want.
Wines have a chance to develop one of three flavors each month it is in a barrel: Fruity, Earthy,
Vanilla, or Buttery. These flavors increase the value of the wine.

Bottled Wine Aging
Don't do it. Waiting years to sell bottled wine, which in real life can drive a price up massively
doesn't seem to do much in Terroir. Admittedly I have only held onto wine for up to 2 years so far,
but in those two years the wine's value went up by only around $3.50 each year.

Ripeness
A ripeness of 7 is actually preferable to 6 or 5. While a 6 or 5 ripeness will get you the perfect
foliage managment bonus (+1 star to final rating) if you are making 5 star wine already you just
don't need it. And a ripeness of 7 can be far easier to work with unless you are making Sauvignon
Blanc, or either Grenache varietal, since they need a low sweetness.

Tavern Bug/Exploit
The Tavern can only sell up to 600 (or 1000 with adjacent Castle Ruins) wines at a time. However,
if you want to sell wines at double the speed, just make sure that you fill both slots with 300 (or
500) wines. They can even be the same vintage. However, in order to do this you need to exit the
Tavern UI and reopen it for the second slot.

The Mayor's Visit
Always keep a couple or more bottles of your best wines in case The Mayor comes for a visit, as he will give you a considerable sum of money for your vineyard. The better the wine, the more money.

Thanks for the post. I already had sussed out this information, through many hours of trial and error.

The problem is that no matter how much you plan for a series of quite small occurrences to occur, the game manages to do just that, and then some. A 1% chance of occurrences, three months in a row? No problem. Four months? Let me roll up my sleeve. This is the issue. The RNG is badly, severely screwed way, WAY beyond anything that is remotely reasonable. Anger...DEEP anger is a certainty, when you get years and years and YEARS of consecutive bad crops, enough to force your business out of business.

Again...seven years it the longest I have ever had a successful business. I ran a 100%, IRON CLAD FLAWLESS operation, for planting, and pruning, and production, including sales and marketing. PERFECT operations...and the game mechanics still killed me. Over, and OVER, and EVERY GAME I EVER PLAYED.

Offline Barthheart

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2019, 02:56:20 PM »
So.... just to be clear... you donít like the game?  ???

Iím 4 years in on my third game on easy and have had three 5 star wines and one 4 star and now have $100k+ cash on hand. Even when two years running were droughts, I managed to manipulate the wine to get a 4* and a 5*.

YMMV.

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Offline MC

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2019, 03:57:00 PM »
I've grown tired of all this whining.   :D

Offline Toonces

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2019, 04:45:54 PM »
This thread makes me thirsty.   

Yellowtail here I come!  :buck2:
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Offline joram

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2019, 07:41:57 PM »
I've always wanted a rogue-like wine game.  Thanks!

Offline DennisS

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2019, 04:50:57 PM »
I've grown tired of all this whining.   :D

You're killing me Smalls...

Offline FarAway Sooner

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Re: Terroir - (NOT a wargame but...)
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2019, 06:50:27 AM »
Dennis, maybe you can just view this as more of a "global climate change simulator" game?  I mean, you know the guys who WROTE the studies saying there was a 1% chance of something happening were stooges for the industry who were trying to sell you the vineyard, right?   ;D