Author Topic: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019  (Read 1669 times)

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Online JasonPratt

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2019, 08:57:04 PM »
THIS IS GOING TO BE THE SILLIER PART OF THE FAQ ISN'T IT?

Probably.

AND SPOILERYER!

Maybe.

IS KONG IN THE FILM?

Glimpses, at a distance by camera, on monitors. The story references Skull Island's plot in passing several times, and sets up the sequel next year -- which, as I started to suspect, now looks very much like a Part 2 to a duology. That said, this film does not by any means end on an unresolved cliffhanger.

IS THERE A POST-CREDIT SCENE TO SET UP G VS K?

Technically yes, but it doesn't reference Kong at all. What does set up G vs Kong, along the way, are the main end credits, which serve as a nice epilogue. (And also serve as a callback to the opening credits of G14, in the same style -- but with vastly much better music!)

IS THE POST-CREDIT SCENE WORTH STAYING AROUND FOR?!

I'd say yes, partly because I enjoyed listening to the end credit music. If you skip it though, don't worry, I'm sure its plot point will be very adequately covered in the next film.

ARE YOU GOING TO SPOIL IT?!

No, but I'll give a hint: it resembles a pre-opening-credit scene to one of the two best Heisei Series Godzilla films. (And might be an intentional reference. This film is made by fans for fans. But fandom isn't required.)

THAT WAS FAR TOO VAGUE TO BE USEFUL!

On purpose; I said I wasn't going to spoil it. I appreciated its fridge brilliance, though! -- on the way out of the parking lot in the car, I realized the film had set this up about halfway through! (I said this script was surprisingly solid.  :smitten: )

WE'VE HEARD THERE ARE OVER 17 KAIJU IN THIS FILM!

That...... might be technically true, although I somewhat doubt it. Only seven kaiju are clearly seen: four of those are the classic Toho stars of the film, one is a Muto, and two are new. Other new ones are glimpsed in passing. One of the two clearly seen new ones could be a nice upgrade to a classic Toho monster, if Toho wanted to go that route, however.

SO GODZILLA, MOTHRA, RODAN, AND GHIDORA ARE THE REAL STARS OF THE FILM?

Yes, yes, a thousand times yes. The fx crew do a lot of cool things and they get to be characters. I was even surprised to see some characterization given to the three Ghidora heads! -- not a lot, but it's there! All things considered, that's genuinely amazing.

ARE THEY BETTER CHARACTERS THAN SMAUG?

Ha ha ha ha, no. But they're very sufficient for what they are.

IS GHIDORA A BETTER DRAGON THAN SMAUG?

Absolutely (aside from necessarily having less characterization). The director and fx team obviously had Smaug in their sights, and they go above and beyond. Not to take anything away from Smaug, he'll never not be awesome.

IS THIS THE BEST GODZILLA FILM EVER MADE?

The first film (in 54) is technically better in some ways, and more important obviously, also more meaningful. But this film reaches hard for a meaning relevant to G films generally, and then has a debate about that meaning! Wasn't expecting that, and I appreciated the effort (even if I don't agree with either flavor of the meaning philosophically, which amounts to humans being no inherently better than any other animals but also somehow more likely to destroy the earth than any mere animals as though we aren't really part of nature after all. I realize why this is incoherent, but I don't think anyone in the film does.)

Overall, though, yeah: by far the best Godzilla film ever made. I don't know how that can even be seriously debated. And it's a genuinely good, solid film, easily one of the very best films (per se) this year so far. I don't doubt it'll still be near the top by the end of the year.

FINE, WHATEVER, BACK TO THE MONSTERS. WE'VE HEARD 60% SCREENTIME?

Might be more than that overall! I can understand some reviewers being fatigued by monster overload.

WE'VE HEARD THE FOUR STARRING MONSTERS RARELY INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER!

....that's probably true, strictly speaking. Godzilla and Ghidora fight a lot. More than I was expecting! I'm unsure if Rodan and Godzilla are even ever in the same frame for more than ten seconds total. Ditto Mothra for more than 30 seconds total (and less than with Ghidora).

DOES GHIDORA COME FROM SPACE?

That would be spoilers. Let's say not in this movie.

ARE ANY TOHO KAIJU KILLED OFF PERMANENTLY?

Kind of a spoilery question. Let's say I was perfectly fine with the end result.

ARE ANY MORE TOHO KAIJU TEASED FOR NEXT FILM?

I'm not sure if he'll be in the next film (G vs Kong), but I'd say there's a reasonably good chance that a version of the Destroyer will be on the way, and/or one of the other Kaiju from the Heisei Era. If you have no idea what that could even possibly mean, don't worry about it: it'll be super-nifty, that's all.

DOES THAT MEAN THE OXYGEN DESTROYER FACTORS INTO THE STORY?

I had seen teases from the director it would be referenced; I was surprised at how they did so. A little disappointed but not much. It looks like it will be a lot more important going forward.

DOES THAT MEAN SERIZAWA DIES?

That would be spoilery. I was not surprised, and was not disappointed. But I also continue to maintain that he's "Serizawa" in name only: he's a totally different character. (This is only important, though, if you know and care about what that character originally means.)

...UM... TRYING TO ASK NON-SPOILERY QUESTIONS... DO MOTHRA'S TWIN FAIRIES SHOW UP?!

Not as such, but they are definitely referenced. Twice, in two very different ways, come to think of it! It's cute and topically appropriate but mainly a nod to the fans.

NOT A KAIJU QUESTION: WE WERE TOLD SOME CHARACTER FROM KONG: SKULL ISLAND WOULD SHOW UP. IS THAT CHARLES DANCE'S VILLAIN CHARACTER?!

....um, maybe? I honestly don't know. I was looking for this, but if one of those characters returned (other than glimpses and mentions of Kong himself), it wasn't clear to me. At no time does Dance's character give any indication he's Tom Hiddleston's previous character, and their names are totally different (as I just checked to be sure). Nor is he treated by Monarch (the human hero group) as though he's using an alias. Maybe Zhang Ziyi is playing the daughter of the Chinese character from K:SI? That was my expectation and tentative guess, but when she shows some family photos they don't seem to be referencing that. I might have missed something though.


Okay, even I'm tired of doing this now, especially with almost nothing to gripe about! I wish I could see it in Imax; and I'd like to see it at least once more on the big screen. Oh, okay, relatedly, one more thing...

WE'VE HEARD THAT G14 IS BETTER BECAUSE IT SHOWS OFF THE MASSIVE SENSE OF SCALE OF THESE CREATURES --

Gareth Edwards (the director) was good at that, but he also did so in wildly incoherent ways sometimes. (The scene with the Muto and the train track comes to mind.)

I absolutely do not understand what film some reviewers I've read/heard were watching, who complained that this film is not only worse but somehow signally fails at doing that. This film reeks with the massive scale of the kaiju! -- showing them off in lots of colorful ways! Sometimes I think some people are trying desperately to justify why G14 must be better somehow, and I don't know why that would even be happening, but this is by far the silliest attempt I've heard at comparing G19 disfavorably. Maybe it's a side effect of showing them so much? -- the same reviewers I've heard that from are also the ones who sounded exhausted at having too much kaiju action and who treated that as a bad thing.

Arguably the monsters move too fast sometimes, and that seems to be what the disfavorable sense of scale comparison is coming from. But in terms of the film: one of them has three snakey heads (which have historically twitched around a lot more than in this film!); one of them is much lighter and fluffier (so to speak) than the others; one of them has always been dangerous generating sonic booms from flying too fast, so speed has always been a thing with him; and as for the scene they're thinking of with Godzilla... in the context of the film he was just supercharged, so he'd have more energy to move faster in the fight. I think one of the characters even briefly mentions this in terms of the plot that just happened. So... I kind of understand this complaint, but not really. And even factoring that fast movement in, this does not by any means eliminate the other major artistic ways of showing off the massive size.
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Offline SirAndrewD

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2019, 02:45:35 PM »
Jet Jaguar approves.


Online JasonPratt

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2019, 04:12:55 PM »
No sign of mecha in the series yet by the way.

Which is kind of spoilery as an observation?

Here are a random bag of other kind-of-spoilery notes.


1.) Godzilla wins every kaiju fight, although at least once he has some distraction help. This is partly important as sealing his claim to be the King of the Monsters, which is a big plot theme in the film (unlike the 1955 American re-edit of 54's Gojira, where being "King of the Monsters" was just a marketing title comparing him to other movie monsters.) I was not, however, expecting this!

2.) Considering the main story theme for humanity in the film (that we're basically an out-of-control virus and shouldn't regard ourselves as any more special than any other animal), I was a little surprised to see the writer(s) eventually suggest that humanity (as a corporate species) also counts as an Alpha Titan. This adds an interesting re-contextualization to a lot of the plot, on both humanity's side and the Titans, in hindsight. I'll be keeping this in mind the next time I watch it -- partly because I'm unsure yet if the writer(s) intended this implication, much less as a factor to the plot.

3.) The writers go out of their way to explain how something that can only swim (and so which has major limits on how fast it can go), could travel at flight-speed around the world; and they tie it to their developing over-arching plot! It's clever, but it comes at the expense of some plot plausibility in G14 where Godzilla just swims around at normal speeds with natural boosts occasionally. (Then again, the plot of that film is a dire wreck, so...)

4.) Relatedly, I'm starting to wonder if the producers are setting up a modern-day adaptation of Edgar Rice Burrough's Pellucidar novel series. Which might be gold, if they can do it! (By the same token, since Warner Brothers actually owns the characters, they could even segue into a classic DC series called "Warlord of Skataris" which straight-up steals the Pellucidar setting for the mid-1970s and new characters.)

5.) Comparing jump-scares between films. In G14, the scariest thing is a seagull. Not true for G19.  O0 (It's a more pointless and obviously coming jumpscare to be honest, but still miles better.)

6.) All the Toho Kaiju die. I think. I'm a little unsure in one case but that's the implication.

7.) The creators reaaaalllllyyy like the Heisei Era, and borrowed the final confrontation from both of the two best films from that series. I do not disapprove of this.  :bd:
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The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline airboy

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #33 on: June 19, 2019, 10:01:19 AM »
We saw Godzilla this evening.

This is a perfect MST3K movie - a monster movie with an incoherent plot.  But all of these monster movies have incoherent plots.

My regret - I had a conflict this afternoon that pushed the viewing into the evening - the theater was not empty.

Watch this at home when you can drink beers and play MST3K with your family.  Watching it this way would make it a solid B movie on an A-F scale.

The only way to explain the plot is the old telephone game.  Somebody wrote a plot.  They then read it out loud, fast, to another person who typed what they heard with inadequate typing speed.  This was repeated 4 to 5 times each time with a new person.

Monster special effects were well done. 

Godzilla can seemingly go "boom."  There is "good radiation" that renews the earth which is not "bad radiation" which is made by man and hurts the earth.  Unless the "bad radiation" is used to renew Godzilla where the "bad radiation is used to revive a good monster."  Some of the titans are from Earth and are "natural monsters" and thus "good," while other monsters came from off of the Earth and are "not natural" which is of course bad.   Boss monsters from terrestrial or nonterrestrial sources can command other monsters regardless of their origin.  Think the head school bully of a reform school of idiots.   :uglystupid2:

 I could critique the actions of the humans, but that becomes so silly that you will think I'm making things up.  I'm predicting rentals will be better in States with legal marijuana. 

Offline Gusington

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #34 on: June 19, 2019, 10:59:37 AM »
I would 100% watch it being watched by the MST3K guys.
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Offline solops

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2019, 11:07:29 AM »
Godzilla is my spirit animal. My shirt says so.
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Online JasonPratt

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #36 on: June 19, 2019, 11:27:27 AM »
I have a higher estimate of the plot than Airboy does (aside from the incoherency of the philosophy behind the plot, which we probably agree against), but maybe my audience wasn't as distracting. ;) (And I'm someone who posted a screed about the "dire wreck" of G14's plot.)


The good and bad radiation thing is silly on the face of it -- especially because the plot makes clear that even Godzilla involves bad radiation, i.e. inimical to life -- but probably has roots (pun not originally intended) in philosophical vitalism, which would connect somewhat well to the overtly magical notion of evolution in this science-fantasy movie (and series, and the series of series, overall. ;) )

Godzilla has been able to 'boom' since at least the 90s. Maybe for the first time in the Heisei series entry vs. Ghidora (though arguably one film before vs. Biollante). It's new for American audiences, but not for fans. Ditto "burning Godzilla" (also borrowed directly from the 90s Hesei series).

The boss monsters seem able to command other monsters through bio-acoustics, thus regardless of their origin (terrestrial or otherwise). This part of the plot, combined with "Asskicking = Authority", is pretty coherent, and rather overt. (More subtle, as I noted above, is the implication from some plot mechanics that humanity-in-general also counts as a boss monster, or Alpha Titan.)

There are hints in the story that the origin of even the terrestrial monsters isn't "natural" per se; and that this part of the plot will be developed more in G vs Kong.
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The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Online JasonPratt

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2019, 12:43:54 PM »
A nice montage of G action stitched together (not in release order) from the original G54 through all three series (Showa, Heisei, and Millennium) plus recent work from G14, ShinG, AnimeG, and G19... set to the G19 remake of Blue Oyster Cult's "Godzilla" (which plays during the end main-credit sequence.)

Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Strategic Werewolf Axe-chopping Simulator video AAR!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline solops

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2019, 02:27:02 PM »
My brother-in-law, another retiree, told me it was the worst Godzilla movie ever, a low bar indeed. How can you mess up a plot that a nine year old could write?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2019, 02:31:45 PM by solops »
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Online JasonPratt

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #39 on: June 19, 2019, 04:30:09 PM »
He's exaggerating. It isn't physically possible to be worse than 1955 up there (Godzilla's Counterattack, the only other G film in black and white. And even it has its merits).
Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Strategic Werewolf Axe-chopping Simulator video AAR!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Sir Slash

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #40 on: June 19, 2019, 05:55:52 PM »
I wonder what they paid Godzilla to do that film? Whatever it was, it wasn't enough.
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Online JasonPratt

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #41 on: June 19, 2019, 06:16:16 PM »
Well, he does have a motion actor, so it was something! -- each of the Ghidora heads had a motion actor, too!

We can be sure that they were at least paid scale.













THE GIANT REPTILE ACTORS

WERE PAID AT LEAST

SCALE
Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Strategic Werewolf Axe-chopping Simulator video AAR!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline airboy

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #42 on: June 19, 2019, 06:56:22 PM »
You need a weird sense of humor to enjoy giant Japanese Monster movies.

Or you need some deep philosophy which is beyond me.   :D

Offline solops

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #43 on: June 19, 2019, 07:12:54 PM »
It's the deep philosophy .........thingy.
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Online JasonPratt

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Re: Godzilla: King of the Monsters coming 2019
« Reply #44 on: June 19, 2019, 07:23:58 PM »
Well, I sure don't agree with their philosophies, so...!

It is very much an acquired taste, but this is the most mainstream kaiju genre film I can even think of. Except maybe the Pacific Rim duology?

Well, I don't usually go for the stories (although this one is okay, and there are exceptions. 2015's Shin Godzilla has a very dry, and very Japanese, story; but the writers know what they're doing straight down the line.) As for the "tokusatsu" effects, I appreciate them as innovative low-budget challenges to big-budget films -- and for a few decades, they managed to beat everyone in the world!

So as film history they have a definite place. And I'll always have good nostalgia for them, since they were the first cinema films my Dad ever took me to see; and indeed he used to watch them (and kung fu films) late at night when it was his turn to give me a bottle. So emotionally they always remind me how much I love my Dad.  :smitten:
Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Strategic Werewolf Axe-chopping Simulator video AAR!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.