Author Topic: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all  (Read 4325 times)

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Offline Kushan

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #30 on: October 15, 2018, 08:03:11 AM »
Which gets to my biggest pet peeve about Space 4X, which is that the paradigm Sid Meier created for Civilization some, what, 30 years ago at this point, *still* dictates the overall template and mechanics of these games.

Can’t agree with this more. I’m probably in the minority on this but I liked the vanilla Distant Worlds research system. Wasn’t perfect and could have used some refining but you’d think the world was ending with the criticism of it, which boiled down to “its not a generic civilization style tech tree, it sucks”.

I think my ideal system would be a mix of Aurora, vanilla DW, with some of the randomness from Stellaris. Basically, you’d always be researching all fields, the more you used say lasers the more research you got, but you would also have the ability to focus certain tech by assigning research teams.

Probably in the minority on this too, not to mention going to suffer the wrath of Jarhead, but I hate planetary invasions. Probably because I’m a big fan of the Honorverse novels, but I feel once you control a planets orbit, and can glass it without effective resistance, why land troops beyond garrisoning it to keep the population in line. Not to mention when you have populations in the millions or billions, landing a few hundred thousand troops in the invading force would be at a severe disadvantage.
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Online Jarhead0331

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #31 on: October 15, 2018, 08:17:43 AM »
^LoL. Yeah...I do love my planetary invasions! Detail with these operations is something that I feel is always lacking in 4x games. I agree, that such a large scale operation may not always be cost effective, but certainly the option should be there, as should other options of planetary control, including, blockade, bombardment, etc.

In terms of research, have you looked at Plolaris Sector? It seems to have the research system you are describing. All fields are research simultaneously, but you can place a focus on a particular tech.
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Offline Anguille

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2018, 03:13:14 PM »
In Horizon you get to research in 6 fields at the same time: propulsion, electronics, construction, armor, biotech and weapons. Within each field, research is being done on many different techs. In each field you can focus on one tech (research team will focus on that tech). You can also focus research on one specific field. Finally, there are new techs that will show up depending on what you research and i think it's partially random.

Offline Steelgrave

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2018, 04:51:07 PM »
I haven't cranked Horizon up yet. It's sat untouched on my Steam account like it belongs on The Island of Misfit Toys. Maybe I should give it some love.
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Offline WargamerJoe

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #34 on: October 17, 2018, 02:27:05 AM »
Polaris Sector's tech system and it's ship building/tactical layer are the best bits about that game. Unfortunately, they're too good in comparison to the rest of it - I don't think it holds together well as a complete experience.

If we're talking about genre burdens, I think MOO2 has done more to influence space 4X games than anything else, although one could argue that in turn derives itself from early Civ games.

It's weird how little innovation there's been though, especially since a couple of years ago there was a mini-boom of new space 4X games, mainly under Iceberg Interactive. It was as if a bunch of gamers decided to make the 4X game they always wanted... excepted they just ended up making every other 4X game again.

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Offline solops

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #35 on: October 17, 2018, 06:07:33 PM »
My favorite research model ( and one of my favorite games) was Sword of the Stars I & II. There was a tech tree, but you were NOT guaranteed that all of the techs would be available each game. A "Core" was available every game, including some race specific stuff, but sometimes you just did not get some pretty important techs and had to work around it. Not getting point defense can be a killer if you do not adapt your ships and fleet design to account for it. And, you cannot "see" which techs are missing ahead of time, so you research away, down to long path to something and then find out your race has NO clue what it is and cannot research it. If it is something you really want, you have to find a race that DOES have it, go to war with them and then hope you get the tech during a salvage operation. I think all games should use a similar model.
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Offline bbmike

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #36 on: October 17, 2018, 06:21:50 PM »
^Agree. I also kind of liked the blind research option in Alpha Centauri.
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Offline Yskonyn

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #37 on: October 18, 2018, 05:02:25 AM »
I agree wholeheartedly about SotS tech tree system. I personally like it more than Polaris Sector's theoretical and applied sciences system.

I also think Distant Worlds is the pinnacle of economy simulation. Items and resources actually have to be transported from a to b, something many 4x games abstract to a number or an 'automatic flow system'.

Stellaris actually does very well with the random events and sweeping story arcs that might change the balance of the game bigtime.

GalCiv does very well with having an AI that's pretty smart, but above all, seems to play like a human opponent.
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Offline SteveW

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #38 on: October 18, 2018, 08:40:18 AM »
^LoL. Yeah...I do love my planetary invasions! Detail with these operations is something that I feel is always lacking in 4x games. I agree, that such a large scale operation may not always be cost effective, but certainly the option should be there, as should other options of planetary control, including, blockade, bombardment, etc.

Have a browse through the changes list for the forthcoming C# version of Aurora. From about the middle of page four onward, there is a lot of new detail on planetary invasions (in particular pages 7/8).

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.0

« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 08:43:26 AM by SteveW »

Online Jarhead0331

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #39 on: October 18, 2018, 08:42:38 AM »
^LoL. Yeah...I do love my planetary invasions! Detail with these operations is something that I feel is always lacking in 4x games. I agree, that such a large scale operation may not always be cost effective, but certainly the option should be there, as should other options of planetary control, including, blockade, bombardment, etc.

Have a browse through the changes list for the forthcoming C# version of Aurora. From about the middle of page four onward, there is a lot of new detail on planetary invasions.

http://aurora2.pentarch.org/index.php?topic=8495.0

OMG! SteveW is here!!!!

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EDIT: Now that I've collected my wherewithal, I am following the change list in the C# thread very closely. Its a large part of my inspiration for starting this thread.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2018, 08:54:39 AM by Jarhead0331 »
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Offline Yskonyn

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #40 on: October 18, 2018, 08:55:58 AM »
Hi Steve!
Thanks for Aurora! Its peeked my interest for several years now, but I just have to find the time to properly sit down with it some day.
Liked the Lets plays on YT from various people.
It also pointed me to StarFire 3rdR which I am trying to learn and make ready for forum play atm.
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Offline Kushan

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2018, 09:24:19 PM »
Hi Steve. Really looking forward to Aurora C#. Looked through the thread, but didn't see an answer to a question i have. Will the fighter UI be getting simplified? Personally I find managing large groups of fighters a little clunky and tedious the last time I played.
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Offline SteveW

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #42 on: October 19, 2018, 03:55:58 AM »
Hi Steve. Really looking forward to Aurora C#. Looked through the thread, but didn't see an answer to a question i have. Will the fighter UI be getting simplified? Personally I find managing large groups of fighters a little clunky and tedious the last time I played.

The new fleet window has a naval organisation tree. You can set the fighters as a sub-fleet and then detach/attach them as a group.

Offline SteveW

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #43 on: October 19, 2018, 05:10:07 AM »
Hi Steve!
Thanks for Aurora! Its peeked my interest for several years now, but I just have to find the time to properly sit down with it some day.
Liked the Lets plays on YT from various people.
It also pointed me to StarFire 3rdR which I am trying to learn and make ready for forum play atm.

Third Edition Starfire is a great game. A small portion of the code in Aurora survives from an assistant program I created to play 3rdR. In fact, playing Starfire ultimately led to Aurora.

Offline mikeck

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Re: The greatest space 4x to conquer them all
« Reply #44 on: October 20, 2018, 05:29:26 PM »
Two space combat themes I’d love for someone to make...
1. A realistic tactical ship space combat game. I’m thinking like Silent Hunter 5 in space. Charting long term patrols, interdicting trade, taking out warships. You’re in command of a Space Navy Frigate. You get various missions and can move around inside your ship going to the sensor quarters, weapons, engineering, etc. Combat would be complex and realistic. Would detect enemy ships at extreme range and have to set a course to intercept using orbital mechocs like Children of a dead earth. Then target and use long range missiles and kinetic kill weapons up close.

2. A future tactical ground warfare game. Can be near future...maybe 100 years. Maybe US vs China on mars or something. Infantry, attack aircraft, energy weapons, space based strikes. Doesn’t have to be Mars.
Could be earth. Just want future tanks, attack aircraft and lasers pew! pew!

Besides the 8500 warhammer 4K types of rTS, I can’t think of any. I’d want a more slow,
Realistc and complex game. Well, like Combat Mission or Graviteam. Heck, I’d even take a hex and chit turn based version

So....could one of you guys hook that up?
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