Author Topic: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread  (Read 26467 times)

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Offline IncompetentIdiot

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1185 on: February 18, 2019, 05:57:15 AM »
If you want to set up a sequence as a public contract, and get enough people to sign on for a majority vote on all points, I can process it automatically.

Of course, if someone jumps in with a Tribune veto while I'm doing that, it'll still abort the sequence.

Here is a suggested public contract (still subject to negotiation), in order of execution:

1) Lucius Aemilius Paullus Macedonicus (Conservatives) becomes Dictator.
2) Macedonicus successfully names Manlius of the Militarists as MoH.
3)  Julius and Aelius are voted in as consuls

4) Julius and 9 legions including the 2-3 vets legions and the 2 naval v. Antioch and the Syrians. 
5) Macedonicus  and Manlius prosecute the Macedonians with 12 regular legions and 10 fleets. (can be modified by no more that addition of 1 veteran legion)
6) Illyrian War, 1st Punic War are unprosecuted

7)Aelius of the Militarists as a counsel who remains in Rome.  I believe since he would be the HRAO, as the dictator Macedonicus is deployed.  If we get 4 wars, we don't lose automatically.
8)  Valerius as governor of Galia Cisalpina   

9) Any faction that agrees and votes for these proposals (and doesn't use a tribune to otherwise interfere with them) would be immune from  prosecutions this turn.

I'm in favour.


Offline Erax

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1186 on: February 18, 2019, 06:23:31 AM »
I disagree, I think we're ignoring the elephant  (reference intended) to fight the fleas. The Punic War could become a major problem if we let the next one spawn. I suggest we send the legions against the Syrians and all available fleets under Scipio (for the DS avoidance) against the Punic War.

Offline Tripoli

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1187 on: February 18, 2019, 06:53:27 AM »
I disagree, I think we're ignoring the elephant  (reference intended) to fight the fleas. The Punic War could become a major problem if we let the next one spawn. I suggest we send the legions against the Syrians and all available fleets under Scipio (for the DS avoidance) against the Punic War.

While I understand your concerns, the fact is that we have a (I believe 20% chance) of outright failure in the naval war against Carthage regardless of what we do.  Since naval victory is a prerequisite, we could fail, and still have the chance of 2nd Punic war, as well as have the Macedonian war.  I believe we can settle the Macedonian and Syrian wars now and get them off the table, and take the chance of activating the 2nd Punic war.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1188 on: February 18, 2019, 07:03:59 AM »
Worth noting that the Macedonian War, like the Punic, will definitely spawn a second War before the end of the Era (or early in the Middle Era depending on how the final 12 cards shuffle out).

However, also worth noting that a second Punic War will double the strength of the 1st's Naval Battle, too!


In regard to proposed action order, the Consuls MUST be elected first -- this is not optional. After that, the Consuls between themselves decide on appointing the Dictator, who then takes over (again in this case) as Presiding Magistrate.
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Offline Erax

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1189 on: February 18, 2019, 07:10:38 AM »
If everyone agrees that we will attack the two land wars (with fleet support) then I have no objection to the plan; we could, however, raise the 2 missing legions.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1190 on: February 18, 2019, 07:30:39 AM »
Y'all should also consider a Censor now, if you want the Contract to guarantee there will be no prosecutions.

Otherwise, that will have to be negotiated later when the Mandatory Censor Business comes up.

Note that any Censor can be re-elected as many times in a row as the Players are willing to vote for him! (It's only the Consuls who can't be re-elected immediately.)
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1191 on: February 18, 2019, 07:35:09 AM »
If everyone agrees that we will attack the two land wars (with fleet support) then I have no objection to the plan; we could, however, raise the 2 missing legions.

Y'all do have enough projected spare cash to do this, which will of course help increase the chances of removing at least one Active War and its 20 Talent cost per turn (as well as gaining its Spoils).

If things go badly, however, you may not have enough cash reserve to parry costly bad luck events. (Though on the other hand, this could be offset by senatorial donations during the Revenue Phase. And there's a decent chance the new Province will turn a small profit instead of costing the Republic a little cash, each turn!)
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Tripoli

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1192 on: February 18, 2019, 08:28:16 AM »
Worth noting that the Macedonian War, like the Punic, will definitely spawn a second War before the end of the Era (or early in the Middle Era depending on how the final 12 cards shuffle out).

However, also worth noting that a second Punic War will double the strength of the 1st's Naval Battle, too!



Does this mean the Carthaginian strength is doubled, or the Roman?  One of the resong I'm proposing that we don't prosecute 1st Punic War now is that we need the fleets for these other wars, which are winnable.  The 20% chance of a naval disaster would require us re-raising fleets to prosecute the Macedonian war, and our current budget situation is sufficiently tight that that may be difficult.  However, if Carthaginian naval strength doubles in 2nd Punic war, then I way reconsider my proposal.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 08:31:39 AM by Tripoli »

Offline malize

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1193 on: February 18, 2019, 09:24:53 AM »
Worth noting that the Macedonian War, like the Punic, will definitely spawn a second War before the end of the Era (or early in the Middle Era depending on how the final 12 cards shuffle out).

However, also worth noting that a second Punic War will double the strength of the 1st's Naval Battle, too!



Does this mean the Carthaginian strength is doubled, or the Roman?  One of the resong I'm proposing that we don't prosecute 1st Punic War now is that we need the fleets for these other wars, which are winnable.  The 20% chance of a naval disaster would require us re-raising fleets to prosecute the Macedonian war, and our current budget situation is sufficiently tight that that may be difficult.  However, if Carthaginian naval strength doubles in 2nd Punic war, then I way reconsider my proposal.

That’d be Carthaginian.  It wouldn’t make sense if Roman.

Offline malize

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1194 on: February 18, 2019, 09:29:25 AM »
My question for Jason is can we defeat the Carthaginian fleets separately from engaging their armies?

Does it all have to be done on the same turn?

And can we use different commanders for fleet and army?

Because if so then putting Fabius on the fleets would minimize losses there if things go sideways?
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 09:31:22 AM by malize »

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1195 on: February 18, 2019, 11:05:12 AM »
My question for Jason is can we defeat the Carthaginian fleets separately from engaging their armies?

Yes, and in fact it's safer to do that: you can bring your Legions along for a same-turn assault, if you want, but you risk losing the Legions to the Naval Battle, and you won't be able to land the Legions (much less Support them) until you win the Naval War first. So if you crap out on the Naval fight, you not only may lose Legions but you'll have the surviving Legions tied up on the water for the Turn.

And can we use different commanders for fleet and army?

Because if so then putting Fabius on the fleets would minimize losses there if things go sideways?

Yes, FabbyMax's defensive ability works on Fleet casualties, too!

And yes, you can Deploy two different Forces on the same Turn, to fight the same War; and they'll take their shots at the War in Turn. Consequently, you can send one Commander out with the Navy, and Deploy another Commander to follow after him on the same Turn to fight the Land War.

The advantage to doing this is that you don't risk losing your Legions (especially your precious Veterans) as Fleet casualties. The downside, is that you tie up a second Commander along with those Legions, possibly doing nothing for the turn, if you don't get a Naval Victory -- or if you lack enough surviving Fleets to Support the Land fight.
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1196 on: February 18, 2019, 11:13:14 AM »
Does this mean the Carthaginian strength is doubled, or the Roman?
That’d be Carthaginian.  It wouldn’t make sense if Roman.

Correct: if the 2nd Punic War shows up, the Carthaginian Fleet strength for the 1st War will double. As will its Land Strength!

(The 2nd War will have its base strengths doubled, too, thanks to the 1st War, but it usually isn't possible to fight subsequent Wars while preceding Wars are undefeated. This can be a problem for Provincial defense, tho...)
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Erax

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1197 on: February 18, 2019, 03:16:09 PM »
My idea is to send Scipio with the fleets vs. the Punic War because he voids the war's D/S results, then we send one commander vs. the Syrians. We wouldn't be able to take on the Macedonians because their fleet support requirement would drain our forces. We could go against JP's advice and send some forces vs. the Syrians and some vs. the Illyrians, risking not being able to take it out - but it's a weak war, and its mate could show up next turn and activate it anyway.

Offline Tripoli

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1198 on: February 18, 2019, 03:22:28 PM »
Does this mean the Carthaginian strength is doubled, or the Roman?
That’d be Carthaginian.  It wouldn’t make sense if Roman.

Correct: if the 2nd Punic War shows up, the Carthaginian Fleet strength for the 1st War will double. As will its Land Strength!

(The 2nd War will have its base strengths doubled, too, thanks to the 1st War, but it usually isn't possible to fight subsequent Wars while preceding Wars are undefeated. This can be a problem for Provincial defense, tho...)

SO, I need the Senator's to think about this. Here's the choices:

We can prosecute the 1st Punic War.  Doing so would prevent us from prosecuting the Macedonian War, (and may prevent prosecuting the Syrian War) due to the number of fleets needed.  IMHO, we would have to raise the maximum number of fleets we could, send them to war, and realized we have a 20% chance of a disaster.  Fabius might be able to minimize the fleet losses (loosing only 25% as opposed to 50%) but, as I understand it a natural roll of 8 or 12 is still a loss.  So, we still have a 20% chance (probably somewhat higher) of not winning the 1st Punic War, and still getting a 2nd Punic War, as well as having the Macedonian and possibly Syrian war outstanding.

 Or, we can take our chances on not getting 2nd Punic war with its doubling, settle the Macedonian and Syrian wars this turn, and taking care of business with Carthage next turn.  This would have the additional benefits of freeing up more money from the treasury for winning the Macedonian and Syrian wars.

  I personally think doing the Macedonaian and Syrian wars is the safest route, although not without risk.  Thoughts?  I will propose whatever ya'll think, as this is potentially a game-ending decision we are making.  But I would like to have everyone's thoughts 
« Last Edit: February 18, 2019, 03:24:27 PM by Tripoli »

Offline Tripoli

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1199 on: February 18, 2019, 03:23:35 PM »
My idea is to send Scipio with the fleets vs. the Punic War because he voids the war's D/S results, then we send one commander vs. the Syrians. We wouldn't be able to take on the Macedonians because their fleet support requirement would drain our forces. We could go against JP's advice and send some forces vs. the Syrians and some vs. the Illyrians, risking not being able to take it out - but it's a weak war, and its mate could show up next turn and activate it anyway.

One point-2 fleets have to also go against the Syrians