Author Topic: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread  (Read 25611 times)

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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1170 on: February 16, 2019, 11:34:30 AM »
TURN ELEVEN -- SENATE PHASE
---------------------------

First Mandatory Business is for Tripoli, through Julius, to Propose two new Consuls (or for someone else to do so via Tribune). Whoever becomes Roman Consul will decide whether the Republic needs a Dictator again this Turn -- which can in fact be Julius again!
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1171 on: February 16, 2019, 11:50:02 AM »
Okay, with that out of the way, let me talk a little more about Provinces now.

The only truly necessary details to know at the moment, are:

* Provinces must have Governors. Thus Province Governorship is a Mandatory Business, although the last one (after offices and investigations for corruption). Governors are Proposed and elected just like Major Officers. Even unassigned Senators (e.g. Sulpy over there) can be voted in as Governors!

* A Province can only have one Governor at a time. Governors serve 3 Turns, during which time they are away from Rome -- and so cannot vote (including with their minions) nor hold office! (Nor are they vulnerable to several things, such as assassinations...) The Turns tick off at the end of the Revenue Phase, and I'll keep track of that.

* Each Turn, Provinces have a small random chance (much larger for Governors from the Expansionist Faction, currently unplayed!) to Develop, at which time its card flips over to the green side. Developed Provinces earn more taxes, and can field more military power. Provinces can be destroyed to various degrees, returning them back to Undeveloped in the Forum, or even sending them to the Curia to randomly respawn later!

* Provinces can be attacked by Wars, and some Provinces (including your first one for this game, Gallia Cisalpina) can be attacked by Random Event Barbarian invasions. If a War Defeats a Province, the Province will join the War, adding its military power! -- until the War is Defeated, sending the Province (flipped back to Undeveloped) back to the Forum for reassignment under a Governor.

* Provinces can be Garrisoned by Legions (including Vet Legions), but not by Fleets. The Legions cannot be used for fighting except in Province Defense -- unless the Governor rebels! The Governor Commands these Legions in normal Defense, and surviving Legions will progressively become Veteran under him, with the usual Loyalty perqs.

* Aside from any Garrisoned Legions, Provinces also have an inherent Land Strength (sometimes also a Naval Strength), just like a War. On top of that, Governors can (and actually must) spend local taxes improving Provincial defenses by raising militia brigades and fleets. These fight for Romans at half-strength, but can and will follow a rebelling Governor automatically into War against Rome. (Garrisoned Legions, aside from Loyal Vets, must be test-rolled as usual.) If a foreign War conquers the Province, it won't raise more militia but any surviving militia will fight at full strength against Rome! -- as will the printed Land and Naval Strengths!

* Provinces generate tax income for the Republic, and also provide opportunities for Governors to skim a little extra for themselves.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2019, 11:52:08 AM by JasonPratt »
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1172 on: February 16, 2019, 12:09:29 PM »
Here's a closeup of your first Province in this game, next to its position on the map for reference. (The map position doesn't actually mean anything: the card itself will go to its Governor on his Players' mat, to signify the Governor is out of Rome.)



The little things that look like metal wheel hubs, are metal wheel hubs on the physical cards.  8) This allows players to rotate variable numbers into place, rather than using chit markers. But we don't have that functionality, so I'll use chit markers.

Roughly clockwise from the top left:

The Province name, being white text outlined in black, and underlined, means its vulnerable to random Barbarian Raids. It will also be attacked by three kinds of Wars, as printed in the center. (Most Provinces are not vulnerable to that many War types.)

The crossed swords in the upper right, just like a War card, means it has a permanent Land Force equal to one regular Legion. This Force cannot take casualties and does not need upkeep, just like a War's.

Somewhat confusingly, the Fleet Strength symbol for Provinces is the Support symbol for Wars: an anchor instead of a boat! In this case, it's a mostly landlocked Province so it has no Fleet Strength (and relatedly, cannot raise a militia navy.)

"Provincial Spoils" go to the Governor, although there are risks involved (which I'll talk about during the Revenue Phase).

"State Income" goes to the Republic, although there's a chance the Republic has to pay money in upkeep that Turn instead! (The Governor doesn't get this expense either way.)

"Local Taxes" are spent each Turn by the Governor raising militia. This is entirely automatic for this Province: the Governor can choose the proportion to spend on Fleet and/or Land militia, but that choice is impossible here. I'm not sure what happens to excess local taxes.

Lower right box shows how many local militia brigades have been raised in the Province, up to the printed maximum. (Lower left box would show militia fleets and their max.)

Middle lower box shows how many Turns remain before the Governor goes home and a new Governor (possibly him) must be elected.
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

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Offline Tripoli

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1173 on: February 16, 2019, 03:12:15 PM »
I'm open to comments/suggestions/proposals (along with arguments)for the nomination of counsuls.  Remember, we are still in danger of loosing to the rapidly spawning wars.  I have some ideas, but I want to hear from the Senate (ie, all of the players) with their suggestions and reasons for.  I would prefer the suggestions be made in the open forum, so all players can hear and respond to them.  Remember, the Republic remains in serious danger.  I'm guessing that we need to fight and win two wars this turn to start to breath easier.  The appointment of the counsuls should be done with this in mind.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1174 on: February 16, 2019, 05:35:07 PM »
One more factor to keep in mind, is that you can make political use of the Last Ditch Factions to void any one game-loss condition for as long as a senator from those Factions is the Highest Ranking Available Officer.

Currently your Unrest is pretty manageable, so the relevant Last Ditch Factions are the Militarists and the Plutocrats. The Republic can survive 4 or more Active Wars at the end of a Combat Phase, if a Militarist is HRAO; and the Republic can survive expenses going under zero if a Plutocrat is HRAO. (The Republic can survive the treasury merely being under zero with anyone; it's the action of spending below zero which is fatal, and which a Plutocrat HRAO avoids losing the game from.)

But of course, this can be a little more tricky than it sounds: you have to make sure the right senator is HRAO at the right time to avoid the fatality. And it can only avoid one game-loss condition at a time. If you appoint a Plutocrat as Dictator in order to guarantee (as much as possible, keeping bad luck in mind -- a Plutocrat died in the Mortality Phase this turn for example!) that you'll survive spending cash below zero, and you use that to go into debt loading up on your Logistic maximums, you'll still lose if there are 4+ Wars Active at the end of the Combat Phase.
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline malize

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1175 on: February 17, 2019, 12:15:35 AM »
I'm open to comments/suggestions/proposals (along with arguments)for the nomination of counsuls.  Remember, we are still in danger of loosing to the rapidly spawning wars.  I have some ideas, but I want to hear from the Senate (ie, all of the players) with their suggestions and reasons for.  I would prefer the suggestions be made in the open forum, so all players can hear and respond to them.  Remember, the Republic remains in serious danger.  I'm guessing that we need to fight and win two wars this turn to start to breath easier.  The appointment of the counsuls should be done with this in mind.

IMO we need to utilize our senator's abilities vs. these wars.

Dictator - Julius vs. Carthage
2nd - Fabius Maximus  vs. Syria
MoH - Aemilius Paullus vs. Macedonia
Censor - Manlius (as Militarist HRAO backup vs. wars since all above would be deployed)

if we prosecute all the wars, or focus on a couple, or whatever -- this should be our line up until we knock 2 of these wars to the curb (or the war that person is best at prosecuting is resolved)

« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 12:17:42 AM by malize »

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1176 on: February 17, 2019, 09:35:43 AM »
As a reminder of Statesman capabilities, going clockwise around the table from Player 1 (I.I.) -- note that no Statesman nullifies Enemy Leader D/S.

Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus of the Aristocrats: nullifies Punic War D/S, 5 Mil.

Julius of the Militarists: not a Statesman, but has 9 Mil Skill.

Manlius of the Militarists: not a Statesman, but has 8 Mil. (Teaming him up with Julius in a Dictator/MoH punch will maximize Legion capabilities, but will minimize defense.)

Lucius Aemilius Paullus Macedonicus of the Conservatives: nullifies Macedonian D/S, 5 Mil.

Cato the Elder of the Populists: completely useless at fighting, included for completion in case someone asked. ;)

Quintus Fabius Maximus Verrucosus Cuncator of the Populists: as Commander (not MoH!), halves all friendly combat losses rounded up, regardless of the War, or the combat results! Mil 5. Teaming him up with one of the two Great Militarists will very much balance offense and defense, since his ability doesn't only work on D/S, or on particular wars. He won't stack directly with other special ability Statesmen, since abilities don't trigger with MoH (unless printed otherwise on the card -- and I'm not sure I recall if there are any such Statesmen). However! -- he could make a good multiple Force attack with another Statesman, each Commanding a Force against the same War.

Honorable mention, Flaminius of the Progressives: he's the only other active Senator who has a 4 Mil. Everyone else has 3 or worse.

Honorable mention, Aelius of the Militarists: not for his Mil, which is only 3, but as a reminder that the people won't care who exactly is HRAO during a crisis, only whether he represents a Last Ditch Faction. Manlius and his 8 Mil might be a waste as a backup HRAO!

Honorable mention, any of the Plutocrats: don't forget that one major military strategy would be to appoint one of them Dictator and then use his financial power to load up on Legions and Fleets now. This would of course reduce your striking power this Turn (and future Turns if he needs to stay appointed to keep the Republic solvent until a positive cash safety net is re-established by Spoils and new Province incomes), and shifting over to someone else as Dictator to maximize striking power with a Master of Horse at a later turn might be financially risky. But it would allow the two Consuls to hit with a full 25 Legions and/or Fleets immediately, and would let full Reinforcements be sent to Proconsuls on future Turns.


Perhaps relatedly, but of great importance: DON'T FORGET THAT THE OTHER TWO ACTIVE WARS STILL NEED FLEET LOGISTIC SUPPORT!

If y'all attack the Macedonian War, you MUST assign 10 Fleets to protect and support the supply line. This is not optional -- without sufficient Support they won't even Deploy; and if Fleets are taken back to any level below Supply then all Forces Deployed at the War will withdraw home. (Also, Fleets on Supply duty aren't in danger from random losses or whatever: it's assumed that any minor losses to the multiple Fleets can be made good with trivial expenses below the game's threshold of detection.)

Similarly, if y'all attack the Syrian War, you MUST assign 2 Fleets for Supply duty.

By deduction, those Fleets cannot be used elsewhere, for Supply duty or otherwise!


Also, keep in mind that while you can assign Legions to a Naval Battle in order to hit the Land fight immediately, assuming you punch through, they do risk being destroyed with Fleet losses. In the vanilla rules, those Legion losses are automatic and in parallel with Fleet losses, which is dumb.  ::) In other words, out of 25 Fleets assigned with 1 Legion to a Naval Battle, the one Fleet that takes casualties will be the one carrying the Legion!

I've got a house rule to make that more reasonable, since even the dumbest Commander wouldn't lead with his transporting Fleets: non-transporting Fleets will roll for casualties first, highest Fleet number to lowest, with the Legions being packed into the lower Fleet numbers (1st Fleet will always carry a Legion for example), and with Vet Legions assigned to the lowest Fleet numbers (1st Fleet will always carry a Vet Legion); and with a 2/3 preference for non-Legion Fleet casualties, 50/50 chance otherwise as usual. (Vet Legions won't get extra defense bonuses obviously.)

So if 20 Fleets are carrying 10 Legions, two of them Vets, then on any Casualty result (beyond total wipe), I'd test the bottom 10 Fleets first for casualties, death on 3 or higher (1 or 2 survives). Then if any casualties still need to be filled out, the higher 10 Fleets would be tested going up at a 50/50 rate (odd dies with its Legion, but the Fleets with Vets get tested last). If any casualties still need filling out at the end, start over from the bottom at the same rates.

(This hasn't been posted to the Sabrerule compilation flowchart / house rules yet.)
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 09:40:35 AM by JasonPratt »
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1177 on: February 17, 2019, 09:49:19 AM »
Oh, and keep in mind the 35 Influence auto-win trigger!  >:D

There are ways around this, like a public contract to permanently rescind one or more senators from accepting Consul for Life (or to rescind a whole Faction); and later in the game a Law (if the Players pass it!) will permanently get rid of this rule.

Or, we could work up a house rule along the lines suggested by Erax and I. This hasn't strictly been done yet tho.....
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Tripoli

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1178 on: February 17, 2019, 10:32:08 AM »
How about this:
1) Lucius Aemilius Paullus Macedonicus (Conservatives) becomes Dictator.  Takes Manlius of the Militarists as MoH.  Prosecutes the evil Phillip V in the Macedonians with 12 regular legions and 10 fleets. Odd are: ((12 (Madedonian War Strength) + 6 (Phillip V))- (12 (Legions)-5 (Macedonicus)-(7 Manlius (Normally an 8, but limited by the # of legions))= +6 DRM=37% chance of 18 or more, and all losses are halved due to Macedonicus's special ability.

2) Julius (Militarists) and 9 legions including the 3 vets and the 2 naval v. Antioch and the Syrians.  Odds are ((6 (Syrian War) + 5(Antioch III))-((9 Legions)+3 (veteran legions)+9 (Julius))=+10 DRM=83% chance of victory with no losses.

3) Illyrian War, 1st Punic War are unprosecuted

4)Aelius of the Militarists as a counsel who remains in Rome.  I believe since he would be the HRAO, as the dictator Macedonicus is deployed.  If we get 4 wars, we don't lose automatically. 

5) No prosecutions of anyone.  We are trying to save the Republic, not settle scores.


This system gives us the best chance of preserving our forces (and therefore money), winning two major conflicts.  Having the 5th place conservatives as dictator does not risk giving any side too much power.

Jason-Is my logic and facts okay here?  ie, we have 3 vet legions, 20 legions total, etc?  Also, we could negotiate over the number of vet legions.  Maybe give one to Macedonius to increase his odds, etc.

FYI-Odds calculator here: https://anydice.com/
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 10:35:20 AM by Tripoli »

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1179 on: February 17, 2019, 11:20:53 AM »
How about this:
1) Lucius Aemilius Paullus Macedonicus (Conservatives) becomes Dictator.  Takes Manlius of the Militarists as MoH.  Prosecutes the evil Phillip V in the Macedonians with 12 regular legions and 10 fleets. Odd are: ((12 (Madedonian War Strength) + 6 (Phillip V))- (12 (Legions)-5 (Macedonicus)-(7 Manlius (Normally an 8, but limited by the # of legions))= +6 DRM=37% chance of 18 or more, and all losses are halved due to Macedonicus's special ability.

2) Julius (Militarists) and 9 legions including the 3 vets and the 2 naval v. Antioch and the Syrians.  Odds are ((6 (Syrian War) + 5(Antioch III))-((9 Legions)+3 (veteran legions)+9 (Julius))=+10 DRM=83% chance of victory with no losses.

3) Illyrian War, 1st Punic War are unprosecuted

4)Aelius of the Militarists as a counsel who remains in Rome.  I believe since he would be the HRAO, as the dictator Macedonicus is deployed.  If we get 4 wars, we don't lose automatically. 

5) No prosecutions of anyone.  We are trying to save the Republic, not settle scores.


This system gives us the best chance of preserving our forces (and therefore money), winning two major conflicts.  Having the 5th place conservatives as dictator does not risk giving any side too much power.

Jason-Is my logic and facts okay here?  ie, we have 3 vet legions, 20 legions total, etc?  Also, we could negotiate over the number of vet legions.  Maybe give one to Macedonius to increase his odds, etc.

FYI-Odds calculator here: https://anydice.com/

works for me
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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1180 on: February 17, 2019, 01:21:49 PM »
Macedonicus voids Macedonian War D/S results. He doesn't halve losses. That's Fabius Maximus of the Populists (who doesn't void any D/S results, but his ability works against any losses of any war.)

Keep in mind Deployment order, make sure the Dictator goes out last.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 01:23:28 PM by JasonPratt »
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

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Offline IncompetentIdiot

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1181 on: February 17, 2019, 02:41:28 PM »
How about this:
1) Lucius Aemilius Paullus Macedonicus (Conservatives) becomes Dictator.  Takes Manlius of the Militarists as MoH.  Prosecutes the evil Phillip V in the Macedonians with 12 regular legions and 10 fleets. Odd are: ((12 (Madedonian War Strength) + 6 (Phillip V))- (12 (Legions)-5 (Macedonicus)-(7 Manlius (Normally an 8, but limited by the # of legions))= +6 DRM=37% chance of 18 or more, and all losses are halved due to Macedonicus's special ability.

2) Julius (Militarists) and 9 legions including the 3 vets and the 2 naval v. Antioch and the Syrians.  Odds are ((6 (Syrian War) + 5(Antioch III))-((9 Legions)+3 (veteran legions)+9 (Julius))=+10 DRM=83% chance of victory with no losses.

3) Illyrian War, 1st Punic War are unprosecuted

4)Aelius of the Militarists as a counsel who remains in Rome.  I believe since he would be the HRAO, as the dictator Macedonicus is deployed.  If we get 4 wars, we don't lose automatically. 

5) No prosecutions of anyone.  We are trying to save the Republic, not settle scores.


This system gives us the best chance of preserving our forces (and therefore money), winning two major conflicts.  Having the 5th place conservatives as dictator does not risk giving any side too much power.

Jason-Is my logic and facts okay here?  ie, we have 3 vet legions, 20 legions total, etc?  Also, we could negotiate over the number of vet legions.  Maybe give one to Macedonius to increase his odds, etc.

FYI-Odds calculator here: https://anydice.com/

I'll sign on in exchange for either the censor post or the governorship of Gallia Cisalpina.

Offline Tripoli

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1182 on: February 17, 2019, 03:22:09 PM »


I'll sign on in exchange for either the censor post or the governorship of Gallia Cisalpina.
[/quote]

Are you proposing Valerius as governor?  I don't have any objections.  Does anyone else want to weigh in?

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1183 on: February 17, 2019, 05:06:44 PM »
If you want to set up a sequence as a public contract, and get enough people to sign on for a majority vote on all points, I can process it automatically.

Of course, if someone jumps in with a Tribune veto while I'm doing that, it'll still abort the sequence.
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Tripoli

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Re: Early Provincial Era GROGPUBLIC game thread
« Reply #1184 on: February 17, 2019, 08:40:10 PM »
If you want to set up a sequence as a public contract, and get enough people to sign on for a majority vote on all points, I can process it automatically.

Of course, if someone jumps in with a Tribune veto while I'm doing that, it'll still abort the sequence.

Here is a suggested public contract (still subject to negotiation), in order of execution:

1) Lucius Aemilius Paullus Macedonicus (Conservatives) becomes Dictator.
2) Macedonicus successfully names Manlius of the Militarists as MoH.
3)  Julius and Aelius are voted in as consuls

4) Julius and 9 legions including the 2-3 vets legions and the 2 naval v. Antioch and the Syrians. 
5) Macedonicus  and Manlius prosecute the Macedonians with 12 regular legions and 10 fleets. (can be modified by no more that addition of 1 veteran legion)
6) Illyrian War, 1st Punic War are unprosecuted

7)Aelius of the Militarists as a counsel who remains in Rome.  I believe since he would be the HRAO, as the dictator Macedonicus is deployed.  If we get 4 wars, we don't lose automatically.
8)  Valerius as governor of Galia Cisalpina   

9) Any faction that agrees and votes for these proposals (and doesn't use a tribune to otherwise interfere with them) would be immune from  prosecutions this turn. 

« Last Edit: February 17, 2019, 09:05:18 PM by Tripoli »