Author Topic: German WWI Tank A7v Allied Intelligence Report  (Read 1334 times)

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Offline ArizonaTank

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German WWI Tank A7v Allied Intelligence Report
« on: September 02, 2018, 10:53:40 PM »
The following entry on a captured German tank, the A7v is from the US Army summary of intelligence reports from May 12, 1918.  It is interesting that the report does not talk about the crew, or even the name of the vehicle. The report does talk about about shooting armor piercing rounds at it...the front was well armored.








Also, an excellent video on the A7 from the German Tank Museum in Munster (Deutsches Panzermuseum Munster) is at:

« Last Edit: October 16, 2018, 12:09:52 PM by ArizonaTank »
"Baseball's Sad Lexicon" - 1910

These are the saddest of possible words:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
      Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
      Making a Giant hit into a double—
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”

"Tinker to Evers to Chance"
"where doubles go to die"

These three players helped the Cubs win four National League championships and two World Series from 1906 to 1910.


Offline bob48

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2018, 03:58:58 AM »
'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'

'Clip those corners'

Recombobulate the discombobulators!

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2018, 12:30:00 PM »


Great video... :notworthy:....what a massive hulking thing the A7V was/is

The video mentions that there is only one actual A7V left, and that is in Australia.  I took a quick look, and that one, named "Mephisto" was captured at the 2nd Battle of Villers-Bretonneux, on April 24th; the same date as the report.

So the report must be about "Mephisto".  It participated in the first tank v. tank fight. It is now in the Queensland Museum.
http://www.qm.qld.gov.au/About+Us/Media+Centre/Media+Releases/2018/07/MEPHISTO#.W418SvZFyUk

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mephisto_(tank)




"Baseball's Sad Lexicon" - 1910

These are the saddest of possible words:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
      Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
      Making a Giant hit into a double—
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”

"Tinker to Evers to Chance"
"where doubles go to die"

These three players helped the Cubs win four National League championships and two World Series from 1906 to 1910.

Offline bob48

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2018, 01:01:19 PM »
Interesting - a much travelled tank then :-)
'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'

'Clip those corners'

Recombobulate the discombobulators!

Offline besilarius

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2018, 03:34:02 PM »
The fight with Mephisto was with a british tank unit. 
'the official unit designation I forget, but the unit's men gave themselves the nickname of "The Fierce Rabbits."  (It's a british thing.  Maybe Bawb could give some insight.)

Fast forward twenty-four years.  Bernard Montgomery is describing his plan for Market-Garden to Ike and other personnel at SHAEF.
Describing how he will take on the german panzers, he replies "I will leap on them like a Fierce Rabbit."
Shocked by this unusual phrase, The americans were politely quiet.  Patton had some choice words later when he heard.  Never found out what Frenchy de Guingand, or others on the british staff, thought.
“Most gods throw dice, but Fate plays chess, and you don’t find out until too late that he’s been playing with two queens all along”.  Terry Pratchett.

During filming of Airplane, Leslie Nielsen used a whoopee cushion to keep the cast off-balance. Hays said that Nielsen "played that thing like a maestro"

Tallulah Bankhead: "I'll come and make love to you at five o'clock. If I'm late, start without me."

"When all other trusts fail, turn to Flashman." — Abraham Lincoln.

"I have enjoyed very warm relations with my two husbands."
"With your eyes closed?"
"That helped."  Lauren Bacall

Master Chiefs are sneaky, dastardly, and snarky miscreants who thrive on the tears of Ensigns and belly dancers.   Admiral Gerry Bogan.

Offline bob48

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2018, 03:52:40 PM »
The fight with Mephisto was with a british tank unit. 
'the official unit designation I forget, but the unit's men gave themselves the nickname of "The Fierce Rabbits."  (It's a british thing.  Maybe Bawb could give some insight.)

Fast forward twenty-four years.  Bernard Montgomery is describing his plan for Market-Garden to Ike and other personnel at SHAEF.
Describing how he will take on the german panzers, he replies "I will leap on them like a Fierce Rabbit."
Shocked by this unusual phrase, The americans were politely quiet.  Patton had some choice words later when he heard.  Never found out what Frenchy de Guingand, or others on the british staff, thought.

I suspect we're getting mixed up between Monty and Monty Python...............


I'd be interested to know what the source is for that Monty quote; its not one I've ever come across despite all my readings.

As for the tank crew - its possible that it may be a reference to a children's book character created by Beatrix Potter and called 'The Fierce Bad Rabbit'. Remember that peoples sense of humour was somewhat simpler in those days :-)

Oh, and I think you will find that it's Freddie not Frenchy. I've never read that he was ever refered to by that name.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 04:30:01 PM by bob48 »
'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'

'Clip those corners'

Recombobulate the discombobulators!

Offline Uberhaus

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2018, 04:34:49 PM »
Rabbits defeated Napoleon.  http://mentalfloss.com/article/51364/time-napoleon-was-attacked-rabbits


According to historian David Chandler, “with a finer understanding of Napoleonic strategy than most of his generals, the rabbit horde divided into two wings and poured around the flanks of the party and headed for the imperial coach.”

Offline besilarius

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2018, 05:18:51 AM »
Bawb, the Fierce Rabbit story was in a magazine put out by the Armor School, or the Armored Association.  It was printed sometime around 1988.  May have it somewhere in the basement, but not sure I can put my hands on it again.
It's a good story, and will certainly try.
“Most gods throw dice, but Fate plays chess, and you don’t find out until too late that he’s been playing with two queens all along”.  Terry Pratchett.

During filming of Airplane, Leslie Nielsen used a whoopee cushion to keep the cast off-balance. Hays said that Nielsen "played that thing like a maestro"

Tallulah Bankhead: "I'll come and make love to you at five o'clock. If I'm late, start without me."

"When all other trusts fail, turn to Flashman." — Abraham Lincoln.

"I have enjoyed very warm relations with my two husbands."
"With your eyes closed?"
"That helped."  Lauren Bacall

Master Chiefs are sneaky, dastardly, and snarky miscreants who thrive on the tears of Ensigns and belly dancers.   Admiral Gerry Bogan.

Offline bob48

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2018, 05:46:06 AM »
lol - sounds like a somewhat suspect source to me :-)
'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'

'Clip those corners'

Recombobulate the discombobulators!

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2018, 10:12:46 AM »
I don't know....we have had a sitting US President get attacked by a rabbit... ;)

The incident was documented by Tom Paxton

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gt8TtopZQk
"Baseball's Sad Lexicon" - 1910

These are the saddest of possible words:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
      Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
      Making a Giant hit into a double—
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”

"Tinker to Evers to Chance"
"where doubles go to die"

These three players helped the Cubs win four National League championships and two World Series from 1906 to 1910.

Offline airboy

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #10 on: September 04, 2018, 04:17:37 PM »
I saw the AV7 at the Tank Museum in the UK. 

I "think" I remember that tank was one the Germans were using in training that was captured.  I believe it is a "real AV7," just not one that actually saw combat.  But this has been several years ago.

Offline em2nought

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2018, 06:34:14 PM »
Rabbit is delicious.  It's the only shipboard food that I miss.  ;)

Offline besilarius

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2018, 08:37:37 PM »
Here is the Montgomery quote about attacking the germans like a rabbit:

Yesterday, the Field Marshall ordered SHAEF to have the Third Army go on the defensive, stand in place, and prepare to guard his right flank. The Field Marshall then announced the he will, after regrouping, make what he describes as a lightning thrust at the heart of Germany. “They will be off their guard,” he said, “and I shall pop out at them like an angry rabbit.”

http://www.truthinourtime.com/2014/12/27/extensive-list-of-general-george-s-patton-jr-quotes/

Still looking for the Armor magazine with the article on The Fierce Rabbits.
“Most gods throw dice, but Fate plays chess, and you don’t find out until too late that he’s been playing with two queens all along”.  Terry Pratchett.

During filming of Airplane, Leslie Nielsen used a whoopee cushion to keep the cast off-balance. Hays said that Nielsen "played that thing like a maestro"

Tallulah Bankhead: "I'll come and make love to you at five o'clock. If I'm late, start without me."

"When all other trusts fail, turn to Flashman." — Abraham Lincoln.

"I have enjoyed very warm relations with my two husbands."
"With your eyes closed?"
"That helped."  Lauren Bacall

Master Chiefs are sneaky, dastardly, and snarky miscreants who thrive on the tears of Ensigns and belly dancers.   Admiral Gerry Bogan.

Offline bob48

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2018, 04:52:02 AM »
When it comes to Monty bashing, Patton is likely at the top of the list. Strange that I've never come across this before, despite extensive reading of the subject. Not sure that an author or historian doing research would accept this as a valid statement without it being substantiated elsewhere, but who knows, Monty was known for having a weird sense of humour.

'We few, we happy few, we band of brothers'

'Clip those corners'

Recombobulate the discombobulators!

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: German WWI Tank A7 Allied Intelligence Report
« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2018, 09:55:35 PM »
BTW, if anyone is interested, here is the original source for the report.

AEF "Summary of Information. Second Section, General Staff. General ..., Issues 1-61"

The report is in issue 42, starting on page 510. 

BTW, the report is a fascinating view into what the Allies knew about German forces. It is a summary of French, British and US intelligence reports put out on a daily basis.  The document is massive, but well worth a browse through...  If you really want to dig deep...this is only volume 2. Volumes 1 - 3 together as a set cover the entire period of US involvement.  The other volumes are also available online either through Google books, or the internet archive.

Here is the link to the A7V report:

https://books.google.com/books?id=UdU_AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA510&dq=summary+of+information+%22no.+42%22+%22German+Tanks%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjW0eTpvKXdAhUR7awKHecYAi8Q6AEIKTAA#v=onepage&q=summary%20of%20information%20%22no.%2042%22%20%22German%20Tanks%22&f=false

« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 10:04:59 PM by ArizonaTank »
"Baseball's Sad Lexicon" - 1910

These are the saddest of possible words:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
      Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
      Making a Giant hit into a double—
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”

"Tinker to Evers to Chance"
"where doubles go to die"

These three players helped the Cubs win four National League championships and two World Series from 1906 to 1910.