Author Topic: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc  (Read 5451 times)

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Offline JasonPratt

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Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« on: August 04, 2018, 01:19:17 PM »
Was this coming? I guess it was! -- I hadn't heard of it.

(NO, I SWEAR I HADN'T HEARD OF IT! (despite working to set up a forum game of The Republic of Rome, sometime soon...))

https://store.steampowered.com/app/850010/Total_War_ROME_II__Rise_of_the_Republic_Campaign_Pack/

Coming August 9th, pre-ordered today. One of Grogheads' favorite video sites, Invictus, released a short history of the early/pre-Republic Rome's expansion to celebrate the release:



Here's the (in-game engine apparently) trailer from CA itself:



And the 9 factions of the vanilla release:

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The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

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Offline Gusington

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2018, 04:22:07 PM »
I have zero interest in this time period however - I never really liked Greek history either, or Egyptian, and games got me in to those eras so - I will probably get this at someone distant point in the future.
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Offline IICptMillerII

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2018, 04:30:39 PM »
I just can't get into Rome 2, or any of the new Total War games. Every now and then I go back to try them out after updates and new mods, but I always end up uninstalling them. I will say that it is nice to see the games being continually supported and expanded on.

Jason, what is this forum game you've been mentioning? Is there a dedicated thread for it? If so I seem to have missed it. From the small amount of the concept I've seen, it looks pretty interesting! If I'm understanding it correctly, it looks like you're essentially creating an operational layer for the early Roman era. If so, you might want to consider Field of Glory 2 as your tactical battle game. If you're unfamiliar with the game, it has a complete editor, unit list and PBEM, and is highly moddable. I think it could fit your needs pretty well.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2018, 07:24:57 PM »
Cpt, no thread yet. Coming in a few weeks. (Waiting for one of the Grogs who originally expressed an interest months ago to get back from vacation.) I'll mention it occasionally to remind people it's coming. I didn't actually intend to do more than my Friday mention this week, but then I discovered RiseRom was coming out and kind of fangasm'd at the synchronicity.


Quote
If I'm understanding it correctly, it looks like you're essentially creating an operational layer for the early Roman era

No, I'm only adapting the infamously difficult political board game The Republic of Rome (plus a couple of fan expansions) to a workable forum-game format, I hope. It has battle mechanics but those aren't really the main thing so they happen (with a few rare exceptions) almost entirely automatically without player input. What counts more is whether the players can cooperate together enough to fend off bad luck and various historical events, mostly wars, by making properly reasonable preparations to win. A tactical battle system wouldn't work with it, though the FoG(II) system is very nice!  O:-)

To paraphrase an old fencing joke about 'dry' sabre matches, it's a political role-playing debate that occasionally erupts into violence. Including the occasional assassination attempt.

To anticipate a summary coming later: players (up to 8 in my haxored house rule version) manage unofficial political parties called Factions, each of which has special gamebreaking emphases  >:D , trying to attract senatorial families (with the occasional unique historical characters) into joining their group (sometimes from other groups!) where the players can then level up the senators in various ways. Until the senators inevitably die off, from one or another cause.  ^-^ (But usually from old age / random normal problems.)

Those 30ish senatorial families and their recurring scions effectively tip the balance of control of the hundreds of invisible senators in the game, so that the Player/Factions can get things done.

The game is designed to be trying to make ALL PLAYERS LOSE TOGETHER, so everyone has a strong motivation to beat the game by cooperating together. But the game rules also allow, and increasingly tempt, each player individually to try to win the game alone by becoming Emperor (legally or illegally). It's even possible (for about half the game) for a senator to become Consul for Life accidentally, which other players will be naturally trying to stop. Or take advantage of by seducing that senator away for their own faction first!

The nominal and hardest goal, though, is for all players to win together by keeping the Republic alive at least a little longer than historically. Relatedly, it's practically impossible for any player to lose by yourself: senators come and go, but the political Factions (thus the Players) continue on. Even if you have a party-wipe and lose all your senators, even from them being all executed after a failed coup against the Senate, the Faction continues on, and the game will (probably) spawn you off a new scion from one of the families eventually who will be perfectly happy to take the opportunity to be your new faction leader.

So over the first several turns (which act as a sort of tutorial) the players expand Rome through the Latin and then the Italian consolidation era, unlocking game factors along the way, until the Republic is large and strong enough to start picking up provinces outside the peninsula (which is when the main game starts).
« Last Edit: August 04, 2018, 08:19:38 PM by JasonPratt »
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

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Offline Destraex

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2018, 07:51:09 PM »
Love the idea. Will probably hate the execution. I too am not a fan of the total war games since Shogun2. The engine for me and my old machine just makes things clunky and the soldier sprites shockingly dark and stick figure like. Unless of course I am at ground level right next to them. They also seem to be going for a less real and more abstract feel for the campaign maps. The campaigns are designed to give you a constant challenge which really does not reward you for making the right decisions.
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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2018, 08:15:22 PM »
I have zero interest in this time period...

Well then, let me take a stab at selling the time period! Because what's important, for me, isn't the specific details of the period so much, as the EPIC METAL CONTEXT!  \m/

The Roman Empire has affected Europe (and the Mediterranean and Near Middle East) more thoroughly, even into the modern day, than arguably anything else in history, with the exception of Islam (at least in the Middle East) and, arguably, Christianity. And even Muslim Caliphates were explicitly trying to take over ruling Rome when Constantinople first fell! The Russian Empire? 3rd Rome. Holy Roman Empire? Duh. Napoleon? Also duh. The French Republic? Sort-of-kind-of. Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany? Very much so. (Even the Soviets in their own way as inheritors of 3rd Rome.) The United States has a strong claim, from the foundation onward (in somewhat different but overlapping ways) to be the most wildly successful spiritual heir of Rome -- perhaps uniquely the heir of the spirit of the Roman Republic. But Great Britain had a big claim to that once upon a time, too (and still has a big claim to it), going back at least as far as Arthur the semi-historical Briton holding the line of Roman culture against the Angles and Saxons.

Obviously I have no need to explain any of that here -- that's just context for my real point which is:

Archaic Rome? -- the time of the two cities on the hill and the original kings? And then the rebellion of the Republic to institute the idea of a nation of power being used for all citizens not only for the benefit of a particular few (even if imperfectly realized, and eventually subverted back into despotism)?

This is the origin story. For better and for worse: the synthesis of the homely values and the Hellenic city-states, with eventually the Judeo-Christian ethical philosophy, and (after Rome technically fell, or arguably a hundred years before then) the Germanic/English work ethic. That synthesis starts back here.

This is those first few dozen turns in the game, when you're struggling to just survive and explore and level up and get some more abilities. And Rome is by no means even in the top ten powers of the Italian area. Arguably it isn't in the top 5 of merely the Latin-language valley! It's the little doofy two-city nation you pick in the epic 4x game as a challenge, to see if you can do anything worthwhile with it.

I (usually) love those first "turns" in an epic game. And this epic history is the inheritance of more than half the planet (at least in area), including all of Western culture.

That's what this DLC, and games like it, are about, for me.  :smitten: Did I set my mouse on fire pre-ordering this thing when I finally heard about it?! INSERT THE CLIMACTIC QUOTE FROM A FEW GOOD MEN HERE! (...uh, the other more dramatically important quote soon afterward, not the most famous one: I'm a romantic, in several senses, but a critical one. I can handle the truth. ;) )

...man, I need to go find some Chesterton to quote...
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2018, 08:21:09 PM »
Having said that, I'm probably going to play one of the little island factions nearby first. Because they aren't Rome but could be.  :D
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Vintage Dude

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2018, 08:47:10 PM »
Jason,
I agree with you 100% concerning the time period. I immediately preordered the DLC and I can't wait for it"s release this Thursday. I haven't decided who I will play first.

Offline Destraex

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2018, 09:32:00 PM »
I have zero interest in this time period...

Well then, let me take a stab at selling the time period! Because what's important, for me, isn't the specific details of the period so much, as the EPIC METAL CONTEXT!  \m/

The Roman Empire has affected Europe (and the Mediterranean and Near Middle East) more thoroughly, even into the modern day, than arguably anything else in history, with the exception of Islam (at least in the Middle East) and, arguably, Christianity. And even Muslim Caliphates were explicitly trying to take over ruling Rome when Constantinople first fell! The Russian Empire? 3rd Rome. Holy Roman Empire? Duh. Napoleon? Also duh. The French Republic? Sort-of-kind-of. Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany? Very much so. (Even the Soviets in their own way as inheritors of 3rd Rome.) The United States has a strong claim, from the foundation onward (in somewhat different but overlapping ways) to be the most wildly successful spiritual heir of Rome -- perhaps uniquely the heir of the spirit of the Roman Republic. But Great Britain had a big claim to that once upon a time, too (and still has a big claim to it), going back at least as far as Arthur the semi-historical Briton holding the line of Roman culture against the Angles and Saxons.

Obviously I have no need to explain any of that here -- that's just context for my real point which is:

Archaic Rome? -- the time of the two cities on the hill and the original kings? And then the rebellion of the Republic to institute the idea of a nation of power being used for all citizens not only for the benefit of a particular few (even if imperfectly realized, and eventually subverted back into despotism)?

This is the origin story. For better and for worse: the synthesis of the homely values and the Hellenic city-states, with eventually the Judeo-Christian ethical philosophy, and (after Rome technically fell, or arguably a hundred years before then) the Germanic/English work ethic. That synthesis starts back here.

This is those first few dozen turns in the game, when you're struggling to just survive and explore and level up and get some more abilities. And Rome is by no means even in the top ten powers of the Italian area. Arguably it isn't in the top 5 of merely the Latin-language valley! It's the little doofy two-city nation you pick in the epic 4x game as a challenge, to see if you can do anything worthwhile with it.

I (usually) love those first "turns" in an epic game. And this epic history is the inheritance of more than half the planet (at least in area), including all of Western culture.

That's what this DLC, and games like it, are about, for me.  :smitten: Did I set my mouse on fire pre-ordering this thing when I finally heard about it?! INSERT THE CLIMACTIC QUOTE FROM A FEW GOOD MEN HERE! (...uh, the other more dramatically important quote soon afterward, not the most famous one: I'm a romantic, in several senses, but a critical one. I can handle the truth. ;) )

...man, I need to go find some Chesterton to quote...

In society now I think we are at the late imperial era where the phase of democratic representation has turned to imperialism. Perhaps being on the verge of either collapsing or revitalising itself again? The barbarian migrations are certainly happening again :P It's nice to play a game where everybody has hope starting from the beginning before wealth gets too institutionalised and gap driven again.
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Offline IICptMillerII

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2018, 09:56:54 PM »
Jason, thanks for the quick summary of your upcoming forum game. Sounds very interesting. Iíll have fun reading along to the action!

I know you didnít mean this towards me, but I wanted to say that my unenthusiastic is for the Total War games, not the time period they represent. For all the reasons you listed and more, I am fascinated by Roman history. Iím just a bit more picky about the games that represent it. For the record, I played a ton of Rome Total War, and still go back to it occasionally for nostalgia. That, and the game holds up relatively well all things considered.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #10 on: August 05, 2018, 12:00:47 AM »
Des, there's an interesting and rather deep debate on that, and I land on the side that we're not at imperialism yet (much less late imperialism). But it's a constant threat and we've edged up to (and arguably over) that line more than once as a nation. (The Manifest Destiny period being an obvious candidate, not only at home but abroad. Which then in some cases became home.) Key positions having necessary term limits has been an important stop-gap. I'd feel safer if Congress did, too, but good luck ever getting them to vote that in.  ::) (I understand the point to not having term limits on the Supreme Court, tho, as annoying as that has sometimes been.)
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Destraex

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #11 on: August 05, 2018, 03:22:37 AM »
Not surprised. The comparison is rather obvious. I hope you are right and we can head off the imperialist march. Imperialism is a logical conclusion after democracy takes you so far and you realise that things can get too big for it. The trick is to modify democracy so that middle government somehow becomes the inter rum democracy or splitting up and becoming some sort of federation when things get too big. Humans don't seem to be able to manage much once things get too big. We lose focus. Those at the top forget about the bottom and never meet them and vice versa.
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Offline besilarius

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2018, 06:45:36 AM »
Jason, I applaud your efforts in regards to Republic of Rome.  Never could get more than three folks to play at a time.  An eight player game sounds so crazy fun.
The mechanics have all gone down the bog.  Can your faction arrange something like the attack on Tiberius Gracchus which killed him and 300 of his Faction mates?
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Offline Tripoli

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #13 on: August 05, 2018, 08:01:17 AM »
Jason-If you are trolling for players for a Republic of Rome game, I would be up for it.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
« Reply #14 on: August 05, 2018, 01:29:34 PM »
Tripoli, yep! -- but not officially for a few more weeks. Just reminding that it's coming. I think the last thing to do is make a video demonstrating an early turn sample with three players.

Jason, I applaud your efforts in regards to Republic of Rome.  Never could get more than three folks to play at a time.  An eight player game sounds so crazy fun.
The mechanics have all gone down the bog.  Can your faction arrange something like the attack on Tiberius Gracchus which killed him and 300 of his Faction mates?

I know there's at least one event, the 2nd Catalinarian Conspiracy, which allows (in fact it insists) the current highest ranking available officer to do something like that. (It explicitly prevents you from targeting your own faction in order to minimize the damage to your relations with other players.) I'm trying to think if there's a normal mechanic for something like that. Assassinations of course are allowed at any time during the Senate phase, but you aren't allowed to go after more than one senator per attempt (and if your assassination agent is caught then your faction leader must be put on emergency trial). The conspiracy event allows you to potentially wipe 6 senators from your target, although the chances for that much of a party-wipe are very low.

But of course each senatorial family represents influence over invisible votes, so assassinating a senator can be construed as neutralizing his support, too, one way or another.

The penalties for a caught assassination (successful against the target or not) are quite stiff, to discourage players from using it all the time. And a card to randomly end the game within the final six Scenarios, before the Senate phase, now reduces the chances of players launching a catastrophic chain of assassin plots against each other at the endgame. That's still possible, though. (A player doesn't have to use an Assassin card to try an assassination attempt, it just helps the attempt succeed.)
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.