Author Topic: Armored Brigade  (Read 21001 times)

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Offline Destraex

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #180 on: January 10, 2019, 03:09:31 AM »
I went against my better judgement of buying another Slitherine/Matrix game.

Again, really disappointed with Armored Brigade.

Understanding Terrain
It's extremely difficult to read the terrain in the 2d mode, unless I want to analyze every grid. There are no definition of heights on the 2d map and the isometric map is ugly and useless (I dont want to have to constantly switch back and forth while in the fight)

SOPs
Unit SOPs do not save for grouped units (only work for individual units, but then you suffer from long Command Delays). You have to constantly save SOPs and micromanage how units move and fight. Not fun, or even reasonable.

Pathfinding
Unit pathfinding is awful; as in, I wanted to rip my face off as I watched a tank platoon use 4 different routes (each vehicle found a different way there) and nearly 10 minutes to make a simple, 300m movement (fast movement, out of contact). It's not as bad on large open maps like NTC where units can move together, but that just limits where you can fight - on the only 4 maps available. Finland is a useless map - un-maneuverable for vehicles, and infantry units lose contact with HQ too easily and suffer extreme command delays.

Content
No tutorial missions, no campaign. Just a bunch of poorly defined scenarios, with super-detailed orders like "Seize the Objective" with literally no graphics anywhere (where is my objective?).

The battle generator is also crappy; AI units just defend wherever they feel like, totally abstract of the defined objectives. During on of my games, the entire enemy force was defending the bottom left side of the map even though the objective was on the opposite side of the map. Never mind the AI trying to put together a cohesive attack plan!

Command Delay
Command Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelay for everything! Want your unit to drive 2 meters down the road? That'll be a 1 minute command delay! Unrealistic, and I would fire my LT or CPT in real life if it took him/her that long to get their unit moving while in combat.

Dynamic Re-tasking of Artillery and Aviation
Nope. God forbid the anticipated target is not where you thought it would be.

Grid System
The grid system is weird; I can't occupy a grid with more than 1 unit at a time. I can't pull two tanks up next to each other to blast away, nor can I have two rifle squads working closely together in densely wooded terrain. Weird game dynamic and I dont like it.


Things I liked:
-Graphics are cute
-Combat is good!
-It runs well on my tablet

WOW. Add no multiplayer to speak of to that. But honestly what you list does not seem toooo bad. Just a shame.
"They only asked the Light Brigade to do it once"

Offline JudgeDredd

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #181 on: January 10, 2019, 06:28:22 AM »
...
WOW. Add no multiplayer to speak of to that...
No :P
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Offline mikeck

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #182 on: January 10, 2019, 07:33:48 PM »
I went against my better judgement of buying another Slitherine/Matrix game.

Again, really disappointed with Armored Brigade.

Understanding Terrain
It's extremely difficult to read the terrain in the 2d mode, unless I want to analyze every grid. There are no definition of heights on the 2d map and the isometric map is ugly and useless (I dont want to have to constantly switch back and forth while in the fight)

SOPs
Unit SOPs do not save for grouped units (only work for individual units, but then you suffer from long Command Delays). You have to constantly save SOPs and micromanage how units move and fight. Not fun, or even reasonable.

Pathfinding
Unit pathfinding is awful; as in, I wanted to rip my face off as I watched a tank platoon use 4 different routes (each vehicle found a different way there) and nearly 10 minutes to make a simple, 300m movement (fast movement, out of contact). It's not as bad on large open maps like NTC where units can move together, but that just limits where you can fight - on the only 4 maps available. Finland is a useless map - un-maneuverable for vehicles, and infantry units lose contact with HQ too easily and suffer extreme command delays.

Content
No tutorial missions, no campaign. Just a bunch of poorly defined scenarios, with super-detailed orders like "Seize the Objective" with literally no graphics anywhere (where is my objective?).

The battle generator is also crappy; AI units just defend wherever they feel like, totally abstract of the defined objectives. During on of my games, the entire enemy force was defending the bottom left side of the map even though the objective was on the opposite side of the map. Never mind the AI trying to put together a cohesive attack plan!

Command Delay
Command Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelay for everything! Want your unit to drive 2 meters down the road? That'll be a 1 minute command delay! Unrealistic, and I would fire my LT or CPT in real life if it took him/her that long to get their unit moving while in combat.

Dynamic Re-tasking of Artillery and Aviation
Nope. God forbid the anticipated target is not where you thought it would be.

Grid System
The grid system is weird; I can't occupy a grid with more than 1 unit at a time. I can't pull two tanks up next to each other to blast away, nor can I have two rifle squads working closely together in densely wooded terrain. Weird game dynamic and I dont like it.


Things I liked:
-Graphics are cute
-Combat is good!
-It runs well on my tablet

WOW. Add no multiplayer to speak of to that. But honestly what you list does not seem toooo bad. Just a shame.

Well, I think the lack of multi-player goes in the “plus” column...but I hate people in my gaming like ketchup in my cereal

But this is just one guys opinion...why “shame”. Go look at some of the reviews and let’s plays. It’s a FANTASTIC GAME. Yeah, the relief map sucks. But it’s fun, AI is competent, seems pretty damned realistic concerning weapons capability and observation. I don’t know...people like or hate based on what is important to them but I wouldn’t rely on just one opinion and toss it out
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #183 on: January 10, 2019, 07:47:58 PM »
I went against my better judgement of buying another Slitherine/Matrix game.

Again, really disappointed with Armored Brigade.

Understanding Terrain
It's extremely difficult to read the terrain in the 2d mode, unless I want to analyze every grid. There are no definition of heights on the 2d map and the isometric map is ugly and useless (I dont want to have to constantly switch back and forth while in the fight)

SOPs
Unit SOPs do not save for grouped units (only work for individual units, but then you suffer from long Command Delays). You have to constantly save SOPs and micromanage how units move and fight. Not fun, or even reasonable.

Pathfinding
Unit pathfinding is awful; as in, I wanted to rip my face off as I watched a tank platoon use 4 different routes (each vehicle found a different way there) and nearly 10 minutes to make a simple, 300m movement (fast movement, out of contact). It's not as bad on large open maps like NTC where units can move together, but that just limits where you can fight - on the only 4 maps available. Finland is a useless map - un-maneuverable for vehicles, and infantry units lose contact with HQ too easily and suffer extreme command delays.

Content
No tutorial missions, no campaign. Just a bunch of poorly defined scenarios, with super-detailed orders like "Seize the Objective" with literally no graphics anywhere (where is my objective?).

The battle generator is also crappy; AI units just defend wherever they feel like, totally abstract of the defined objectives. During on of my games, the entire enemy force was defending the bottom left side of the map even though the objective was on the opposite side of the map. Never mind the AI trying to put together a cohesive attack plan!

Command Delay
Command Deeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelay for everything! Want your unit to drive 2 meters down the road? That'll be a 1 minute command delay! Unrealistic, and I would fire my LT or CPT in real life if it took him/her that long to get their unit moving while in combat.

Dynamic Re-tasking of Artillery and Aviation
Nope. God forbid the anticipated target is not where you thought it would be.

Grid System
The grid system is weird; I can't occupy a grid with more than 1 unit at a time. I can't pull two tanks up next to each other to blast away, nor can I have two rifle squads working closely together in densely wooded terrain. Weird game dynamic and I dont like it.


Things I liked:
-Graphics are cute
-Combat is good!
-It runs well on my tablet

WOW. Add no multiplayer to speak of to that. But honestly what you list does not seem toooo bad. Just a shame.

I agree with most of these points. The exception is command delay. I spent plenty of time in the 1980s out in the woods at the behest of the US Army. IMHO command delay scales in correlation with unit training. Still I agree that AB's delay seems excessive at times.

But despite the issues, AB hits the fun factor for me...and once I start playing, all is forgiven. Reminds me of my youth spent playing "modern" micro armor on the floor of my buddy's father's church (an Anglican priest).

Hopefully, they fix these issues over time.


"Baseball's Sad Lexicon" - 1910

These are the saddest of possible words:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
      Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
      Making a Giant hit into a double—
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”

"Tinker to Evers to Chance"
"where doubles go to die"

These three players helped the Cubs win four National League championships and two World Series from 1906 to 1910.

Offline Apocalypse 31

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #184 on: January 11, 2019, 07:39:41 AM »
I just hate when games pick and choose realism; some aspects of reality but not others are applied to form some kind of alterted reality.

Command delay is a thing in real life...but so is training, pre-defined SOPs, Tactics, techniqes, and proceedures, communication...it's not fair to just add a command delay and not give me any way to mitigation it.

In real life I can call that LT or CPT on the radio and get them moving with some motivated words, especially if you use my example (short movement, out of contact with enemy).

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #185 on: January 12, 2019, 07:38:11 AM »
I just hate when games pick and choose realism; some aspects of reality but not others are applied to form some kind of alterted reality.

I agree, but I also wonder if that is just the nature of the beast. Games will always have compromise and abstraction against reality... The trick for the designer I think, is to pick the right mix so as to provide great gameplay with enough realism to induce "suspension of disbelief."


Command delay is a thing in real life...but so is training, pre-defined SOPs, Tactics, techniqes, and proceedures, communication...it's not fair to just add a command delay and not give me any way to mitigation it.

In real life I can call that LT or CPT on the radio and get them moving with some motivated words, especially if you use my example (short movement, out of contact with enemy).

I agree, but in all my years of gaming, I can think of only a handful of games (virtual, board and miniature) that came close to modeling command and control well. I really like the Scourge of War series with the command seat mode at the higher levels of difficulty. But even games that model command and control well, still have compromise IMHO. For example, I have seen a few games with a variation that allowed the player to physically move their commander to a location and expend "command points" to juice the reactions of subordinate units. While I liked that idea, and it certainly happens in real life (Pershing as army commander gave some orders to the regimental commander level during the opening of the Meuse Argonne for example; and then there is Patton, spending hours directing traffic), it is also a micro-manager type of thing to do and sometimes not effective (it caused confusion among brigade and division staff in Pershing's case). A better mechanic would allow the leader (a division commander for example) to pull in his brigade commanders and "juice" them so that the juicing rolls chain of command hill.
« Last Edit: January 12, 2019, 12:55:15 PM by ArizonaTank »
"Baseball's Sad Lexicon" - 1910

These are the saddest of possible words:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”
Trio of bear cubs, and fleeter than birds,
      Tinker and Evers and Chance.
Ruthlessly pricking our gonfalon bubble,
      Making a Giant hit into a double—
Words that are heavy with nothing but trouble:
      “Tinker to Evers to Chance.”

"Tinker to Evers to Chance"
"where doubles go to die"

These three players helped the Cubs win four National League championships and two World Series from 1906 to 1910.

Offline mikeck

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #186 on: January 12, 2019, 11:18:45 AM »
The fact is that it is a simulation. It isn’t going to get everything about warfare exactly right. It’s suppossed to be entertaining, not provide training at a war college. To each his own but I think people are missing out if they skip it because it doesn’t get everything right
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

Offline Jarhead0331

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #187 on: May 09, 2019, 08:28:31 AM »
New nation pack DLC available. Italy and Yugoslavia!

Quote
Following World War II, Italy has struggled with negative memories of defeat and mediocre performances, long labouring under the stigma of failure and incompetence. Merely a remnant of a past to be forgotten, war was expressly rejected in the Constitution, but the creation of NATO meant that the Italian Armed Forces were quickly reorganised and expanded within a totally different international framework than before. Preparing for a feared invasion from the east, likely via Yugoslavia, Italy played an important role in the Mediterranean. Still, the country’s strategic culture, a mixture of realpolitik and pacifist tendencies, severely impacted it’s military policies.

The Italian Army at first glance might seem under-equipped compared to its NATO peers. However, it should be noted that they were supposed to defend a well-fortified, and mostly rugged mountainous terrain on their eastern border. Moreover, quality of units varied significantly across the Army. Some were better trained or better equipped, for example the famous Alpini mountain troops or selected armoured and mechanised brigades. Nevertheless, a player might still feel being under-gunned or lacking in certain aspects, so his armoured, mechanized or infantry force should be always reinforced by strong support assets. This also means a great care should be given to mobility, flanking engagements, and emphasizing maximum use of terrain cover; providing for a challenging and dynamic playstyle.

On the other side of the fence was Yugoslavia. Geographically situated between a NATO anvil and the Soviet hammer, the prospect of invasion would permanently dominate Yugoslav strategic plans. Particularly since witnessing the Warsaw Pact intervention in Czechoslovakia in 1968, Yugoslav military doctrine focused on combining its large field army with the guerrilla experience of the Partisans in World War II. In planning, this would entail the armed forces to conduct conventional warfare along a nationwide front, buying time for reserves and the general population to mobilize. Small Territorial Defence units would engage alongside beside regular troops in their local areas, emphasizing mobility and light anti-personnel and anti-armour weapons.

Because armament parity with likely opponents, both in quality and quantity, was hard to achieve, Yugoslavs tried to use limited national defense resources in the most efficient way, rarely if ever squandering even the most obsolete weapons. Units in the game, as well the combat tactics, reflects this strategy. Yugoslavia is a very balanced, all-around force that will perform satisfactorily in every field, but might not always excel. Hence a combined arms approach is extremely important when facing technologically superior forces. And while the center of gravity of the Yugoslav Army are infantry formations that are highly varied, logistically undemanding and survivable, armoured and mechanized are certainly capable of making it tough for any adversary.

- A nation pack with two new factions: Italy and Yugoslavia.

- Over 250 new units and aircraft from the 1965-1991 era. Iconic modern equipment like the VCC-1 and SIDAM, or Praga SPAAG and M-84 MBT, but also plenty of venerable veterans like M4A3 Sherman, M36 Jackson or SU-100. Increased infantry variety ranging from StG-44 armed Yugoslav paratroopers to elite Italian Bersaglieri and Alpini troops.

- A new map, covering 61x61 kilometres of area around the Italy-Yugoslavia border.


http://www.matrixgames.com/products/product.asp?gid=802
« Last Edit: May 09, 2019, 08:30:50 AM by Jarhead0331 »
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Online Pete Dero

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #188 on: May 09, 2019, 08:58:27 AM »
New nation pack DLC available. Italy and Yugoslavia!

Armored Brigade - DLC RELEASE Stream with XTRG  6pm BST - 7pm CET - 1pm EDT - 10am PDT

https://www.twitch.tv/slitherinegroup

Offline Tamas

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #189 on: May 09, 2019, 10:06:28 AM »
I'd also like to point out that the free update released today contains the new Campaign Generator feature:

http://www.matrixgames.com/amazon/PDF/Campaign-Generator-Guide.pdf


To me, at least, it makes a big difference compared to single missions, as losses and how I peform in a battle will impact follow-up battles as well

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #190 on: May 09, 2019, 10:26:13 AM »
 <:-)
Dawn of Armageddon -- a narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse: The Hunt Begins: Insert Joke Here!

Strategic Werewolf Axe-chopping Simulator video AAR!

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR, lots of screenies.

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline al_infierno

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #191 on: May 09, 2019, 11:21:23 AM »
Nice.  Game rules -- can't wait to give the new DLC a spin.
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Offline IICptMillerII

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #192 on: May 09, 2019, 12:39:06 PM »
Oh wow this DLC/update is already out? Great news! I’m looking forward to giving the campaign generator a spin. I think it’s a great idea that will really help to round out the game. I know a lot of people said they were disappointed by the lack of campaigns when it was first released. Good on the devs for turning some criticism into a great new feature.

The Italians and Yugoslavians are a very cool idea for a DLC. That front gets very little attention in these types of scenarios. Should be fun to play around with.

Online Pete Dero

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #193 on: May 09, 2019, 12:43:20 PM »
More content will follow (from the stream) :

Well, current plan is probably to complete major European powers in next 1-2 DLCs, and afterwards we have set our ideas on Arab Israeli conflicts, maybe more modern combat etc ....

Offline Yskonyn

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Re: Armored Brigade
« Reply #194 on: May 09, 2019, 12:44:04 PM »
Definately! Looking forward to playing this one again soon.
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