Author Topic: Burden of Command Announced  (Read 18864 times)

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Offline BradS62

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #150 on: August 03, 2019, 09:18:10 PM »
That was quite a peek. Why do I sense we're at least a year away.


Offline lhughes42

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #151 on: August 03, 2019, 10:41:57 PM »
Hi folks,
  Project lead here. Good critiques. The primary intent was to illustrate the chaos events outside of your control can happen. Whether this one is the right kind  it seems is demonstrably debatable ;). That being said maybe two points of interest:
 — credible event?  — well had this interesting comment today from a vet regarding on Twitter: “I am glad you included this scenario. As a former medic, I can tell you a lot of times, the medics would be look at as being at fault for dehydration. But in reality, avoiding heat injuries is definitely a command issue.”
— good gameplay event or not because little you can do about — Excellent critique because removing any player agency is usually not fun whether realistic or not. Happily we do give you recourse. There is a Press leadership command which can restore an Action at cost of Stress to unit plus one of your leader command points. So you command decision is whether this situation merits that costly fix.
  Thanks for thoughtful constructive critiques. Love it.
  Luke
   Luke

Offline al_infierno

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #152 on: August 03, 2019, 10:48:43 PM »
Thanks for the reply, Luke.  I'm glad to hear that you can remedy the situation at the cost of unit stress.  My concerns are laid to rest    :peace:
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Offline Jarhead0331

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #153 on: August 04, 2019, 06:12:20 AM »
Thanks for the reply, Luke.  I'm glad to hear that you can remedy the situation at the cost of unit stress.  My concerns are laid to rest    :peace:

+1. So long as these random events are credible within the framework of what is actually happening in the game, and there is the ability to influence the event through player action, it should be good to go.
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Offline lhughes42

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #154 on: August 04, 2019, 06:55:18 AM »
Thanks guys! You realize you have encouraged me to provide more Chaos LOL
  Long live the spirit of SL and Combat Commander ;)

   Luke
 

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #155 on: August 04, 2019, 11:17:02 AM »
Thanks for the reply, Luke.  I'm glad to hear that you can remedy the situation at the cost of unit stress.  My concerns are laid to rest    :peace:

+1. So long as these random events are credible within the framework of what is actually happening in the game, and there is the ability to influence the event through player action, it should be good to go.

Ditto. Dehydration from heat crippling a unit just after hitting the beach, doesn't sound plausible. Unless the unit is a bunch of absolute rookies maybe?

(In honor of the recently departed Richard Berg: maybe they didn't get their pasta ration.  >:D )
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Offline lhughes42

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #156 on: August 04, 2019, 01:59:20 PM »
You are probably right :) There will be limits to our having a stable of random events and articulating their trigger conditions well. Something like this will be tuned to say summer in Med or Morrocco. Not clever enough to to track with more subtle care  :'(
   Hope you cut us a bit of imperfection slack for at least trying these things. :notworthy:

 Luke (Burden of Command lead)

Offline FarAway Sooner

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #157 on: August 04, 2019, 10:24:27 PM »
Thanks for the reply, Luke.  I'm glad to hear that you can remedy the situation at the cost of unit stress.  My concerns are laid to rest    :peace:

+1. So long as these random events are credible within the framework of what is actually happening in the game, and there is the ability to influence the event through player action, it should be good to go.

Ditto. Dehydration from heat crippling a unit just after hitting the beach, doesn't sound plausible. Unless the unit is a bunch of absolute rookies maybe?

(In honor of the recently departed Richard Berg: maybe they didn't get their pasta ration.  >:D )

Surely  nobody was ever stuck on a ship at sea for a week, waiting to go ashore, when they couldn't do it?  And surely there was no lack of exercise, or food, or adequate drinking water, when they were stuck onboard their transport for what was supposed to do a 3-day trip?

The challenge with events like this, I think, is to make it credible within the framework of the game.  Stuff like this happened all the time in WW II.  You just can't drop it on players out of the blue without any context, or it seems incredible.

Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #158 on: August 05, 2019, 06:15:38 AM »
That's the point: there needs to be context.
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline Sir Slash

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #159 on: August 05, 2019, 10:03:50 AM »
I don't know, this kind of thing could get out of hand. You know if one guy's buddy gets killed and then it spawns a 'Rage Reaction' event and he charges an enemy MG nest without orders or maybe a soldier gets a 'Dear John' letter from home and then becomes suicidal or something. Context is the key I agree.
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Offline JasonPratt

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #160 on: August 05, 2019, 11:44:16 AM »
I like that they're trying to add flavor, tho.  O:-)
FIRE IN THE GROGS TOO -- a four-player full team mp of GMT's Vietnam War boardgame Fire in the Lake, recreated in TTS.

The GROGPUBLIC OF ROME ongoing forum game thread

Survive Harder! In the grim darkness of the bowl there is only, um, Amazons. And tentacles and midgets. Not remotely what you're thinking! ...okay, maybe a little remotely.

PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Season One complete; Fantasy Wars AAR

The full pdf of Cry of Justice has been posted to the Grogheads Book category here.

Offline lhughes42

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #161 on: August 05, 2019, 11:48:46 AM »
Thanks Jason. I can’t argue with any of the points. Sadly reality is rather complex to simulate. All I can say is we will try to do our best but no doubt fall far short of what should be done.
  Thanks for all the insights,
     Humbly,
       Luke

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #162 on: August 09, 2019, 07:34:40 AM »
It is common for game designers to factor out many of the "command problems" that the medic mentioned above alludes to. Ammunition resupply, water, food - yes, shortages of these things can and did have an impact on combat operations.

Would heat exhaustion really affect an entire unit within the 20 minute span of a tactical game scenario? I suppose it is *possible* however I would have to believe it was rare.

But the bigger question - if you really want to make this a command problem, then how do you do this? Does the player have to tick a menu every turn - "supply 1st squad with ammunition" "2nd squad drinks water" etc. There's no real simulation there. It might make sense in the context of an operational game.

For example, the ENTIRE 1st Canadian Division was halted soon after landing on Sicily - the reason? Heat. They had come from the UK while the other British divisions had come from North Africa. The Canadians needed an extra day to acclimate. The entire division - nine rifle battalions, three field artillery regiments, an anti-tank regiment, an anti-aircraft regiment, a reconnaissance battalion and a machine gun battalion. Montgomery stopped them for 24 hours to get used to the baking sun and managing their hydration, etc.

Operationally, makes sense. At a tactical level? Interesting idea and I will reserve judgement to see how it is handled, but the potential is there to come off as rather silly. Okay for a game like, say, Ambush! where the gravitas is lower. We'll see how it works out here.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 07:38:49 AM by Michael Dorosh »

Offline lhughes42

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #163 on: August 09, 2019, 07:49:52 AM »
Hi Michael,

  Thanks for weighing in. Thoughtfully and knowledgeably as ever. You’re right it would become only irritating to simulate all the logistics at this scale, however realistic. Instead our goal is to convey such surrounding contexts that were part of the experience not by deep simulation but akin to Ambush (albiet more soberly) by:
1) occasional random but still targeted triggered events
2) deliberate events both particular to a scenario and between scenarios via the narrative interactive fiction.
 
 For example, one of the most intense moments I personally had late in the campaign narrative was worrying about some dicey decisions I had too casually made about procuring desperately needed gas. Logistics made compelling! Similarly, you do on occasion worry about paper work (hey Papers Please made a whole successful game around!). trench  foot etc. Much like Atkinson’s Liberation Series  seeks to convey the experience via anecdote (as well as formal history).

 In other words, we strive to convey the experience of being a company leader, not simulate every aspect. Hope that helps,

  Luke

P.s. interesting Candian example.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 08:17:06 AM by lhughes42 »

Offline Michael Dorosh

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Re: Burden of Command Announced
« Reply #164 on: August 09, 2019, 09:14:29 AM »
That's the point: there needs to be context.

I can think of a successful implementation of something like this in the ASL boardgame. Their Arnhem historical module has rules for British water shortages. To reflect the lack of fresh drinking water suffered by British troops at Arnhem, units are prevented from double-time movement and their broken morale level is reduced by one. (There is an exception for days in which it rains - they think of everything). Historically, British commanders ordered that the water in the river not be used out of fear of dysentery and German SS units remarked on the level of dehydration among their prisoners after the collapse.

I like this sort of thing for several reasons:

a) it's universally applied
b) it's not a surprise - to either player
c) it provides the right amount of flavour without being cumbersome