So better stay away from Steel Beasts dongles

RyanE · December 06, 2016, 10:27:19 PM

My luggage was lost on a trip back from China two weeks ago. I have been told I will get $100 in compensation. But also in the luggage was my SB Pro dongle. So, since I ran a software company a few years ago that used a dongle for its $5000 HMI software, I figured it would be a $20-$25 fee to get a replacement. esims would then just kill the old dongle's configuration. That is what we did at my old company.

So I email esims and guess what; I was told I have to purchase the entire game again at $125. I have been a customer of esims since 1.x SB. In fact I bought SB 1.0 on CD twice so I could have it on two separate machines. I figure I have put $300 into esims over the years, at a minimum. So that is what you get for trusting any company to help a customer out.

There is a whole mix of customer service issues and technical issues to this story. The main one is that esims has no way to kill a dongle, I am assuming. Otherwise, what's the harm in killing mine and selling me a new dongle. If that is the case, we have yet another small company using a DRM system they themselves can control.

esims only "solution" to my issue is the $40/yr time-based license. But, frankly, looking at the bugs and issues they have had, I think I'll just give up on SB. It pains me to say that, but I am just pissed about it.

btw, I'll get most of my compensation on my luggage from my company. But they won't pay for entertainment or personal technology items.

RyanE · December 07, 2016, 07:37:05 AM

So interestingly, after a few heated exchanges with Ssnake, he has agreed to part of request...turning off my dongle. But he refuses to sell me a new one without buying the full game.

Now, even if I get my luggage back, I am out the hundreds of $ spent on SP. I want to make sure everyone thinking about playing SB understands what just happened. esims has taken away the game, even if I had the stick. That is the kind of company they are. They have the power to just turn the game off if you upset them.

Jarhead0331 · December 07, 2016, 07:48:11 AM

Good thing you have all those CMANO scenarios to play...

Seriously though, your situation does suck. That stupid dongle is one thing I've been forced to guard jealously through 3 or 4 moves. I always knew getting a replacement would be a royal pain in the ass.

Frankly, when you can clearly prove you were/are a paying customer, I don't see the logic behind not sending a replacement for a reasonable fee. I'm sure Ssnake will be along soon enough to share esims' side of the story.

ArizonaTank · December 07, 2016, 08:10:02 AM

I have considered getting a copy of SB several times. But any piece of software with a draconian copy protection scheme just will not get my business in the end.

chemkid · December 07, 2016, 08:30:28 AM

what a bummer! ...never thought i'd need to remember what to do to protect my investment in some software... dongle emulation anyone - thought this only valid for 'expensive' pro software?! esims sells their 'personal edition' with dongle protection?

good luck, mate! ...maybe santa's out there fetching you some deal on the side - esims, do you hear me?!

Dammit Carl! · December 07, 2016, 08:34:41 AM

Dick move on their part; sorry, man.

RyanE · December 07, 2016, 08:43:01 AM

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on December 07, 2016, 07:48:11 AM
Good thing you have all those CMANO scenarios to play...

You'll note there are still a lot coming out for Command also. No $10 Amazon card needed though. I'll take sympathy in lieu.

Tuna · December 07, 2016, 08:44:43 AM

It's one thing to have draconian DRM!.. However to not support you paying customers when such DRM prevents them from accessing what they paid for. Pure evil! :hide:

RyanE · December 07, 2016, 08:46:19 AM

Quote from: chemkid on December 07, 2016, 08:30:28 AM
what a bummer! ...never thought i'd need to remember what to do to protect my investment in some software... dongle emulation anyone - thought this only valid for 'expensive' pro software?! esims sells their 'personal edition' with dongle protection?

good luck, mate! ...maybe santa's out there fetching you some deal on the side - esims, do you hear me?!

I actually have no problems with DRM, even very tight ones. As long as the selling company can support it and its a good quality solution. For example, Steam is OK. Yeah there are some nit picky things you have to plan for, but I have yet to not be able to play a game I want.

Even dongles are OK in my book. But having no recourse for a lost dongle is a first for me. That is just poor planning and service.

Tuna · December 07, 2016, 08:50:24 AM

Battlefront and DCS are good with supporting those types of issues. Steam's customer service is non existent, but thankfully it just seems to work on it's own.

Asid · December 07, 2016, 10:12:42 AM

eSim have chosen the dongle as their DRM. They have recently implemented other options. One can purchase a "Time limited license". I have had a dongle for SB for several years and have had zero issue with it. I have changed hardware, OS, PC, etc. I have taken the dongle with me on travels and used it in other PC's without issue.

I have experienced eSim helping quite a few times when most companies would not have. On many occasions the end user did something they were told not to but eSim remedied the situation very quickly. I know someone who did this 2 times in a row and got it remedied. eSim have even helped many people on a weekend and holidays.

I know players who have broken their dongle and returned it to eSim and received a replacement for a fraction of the price of a new one. eSim will do this for anyone who returns at least some part of the dongle so they can confirm its destruction and removal from circulation.

Switching off the dongle through software is more problematic. The user must have first registered the dongle on-line, a simple process. However the dongle will need to meet a certain criteria to be able to get deactivated remotely. Such as go on-line. The problem is that an offline dongle (single player) will not be deactivated. eSim needs to be 100% sure that the dongle will never be used again.

eSim allow you to sell your dongle to a third party. They provide support to the current owner of the dongle. They make this widely known. This also can have the knock on effect of keeping a reasonable value of the dongle.

eSim are a small company. They make their living through their software. They need a robust system to prevent piracy. To date this product has not knowingly been pirated. The benefit of this is that eSim can continue to finance the future of the product.

No system is perfect. No company is perfect. I have never found the dongle to be intrusive. This is from 1000's of hours of use.

Regards

RyanE · December 07, 2016, 10:14:54 AM

What bothers me the most about the whole thing is esims's default thought is I am a thief. The first excuse used is what if you were just trying to get an extra dongle to sell. Really? So that is the first thought you have for a guy who sends you the three latest order receipts for having bought your product?

And then it turns out they can disable my dongle's connection. So I am still at a loss as to why this is a problem that can't be solved.

RyanE · December 07, 2016, 10:28:58 AM

"switching off the dongle through software is more problematic. The user must have first registered the dongle on-line, a simple process. However the dongle will need to meet a certain criteria to be able to get deactivated remotely. Such as go on-line. The problem is that an offline dongle (single player) will not be deactivated. eSim needs to be 100% sure that the dongle will never be used again."

I have the email where Ssnake has told me he de-activated my dongle. So its not that hard. Again, I ran a compay that used dongles. Even 10 years ago it was pretty straight forward. This is just a company cutting off its nose to spite its face.

So what is the worst case scenario for esims...absolutely worst case. It is one extra dongle out there to someone who might or might not have bought it at $125. But on the other side, they have a happy customer and a good story. Plus someone who will most likely buy more stuff over the next years. That is the worst case for them. And they get $25 for replacing the dongle. So worst case they lost $100. Now I probably spent $50/year with esims on upgrades. So even if its every other year. That drops the loss to $50.

What is happening now. That dongle is gone to never be used again. They have a pissed off customer who will never spend another dime with them. Some bad publicity and maybe reinforcing with some people that the dongle is not the best approach and esims is not customer friendly outside a little gaggle of loyalists.

So for an at worst net loss of $50, esims will just piss away a loyal customer for the most pedantic of reasons. And they have already disabled the dongle so that isn't even a consideration in the calculation. No company is perfect, especially if they never attempt to be.

Every company has some good customer service issues and some bad ones. Its how they handle, what should be, common sense issues like this one that falls outside what they normally deal with. What this shows me is what I have always suspected with esims...they are conservative and straight-laced group of people that have little desire to provide customer service outside their own inflexible rules.

Asid · December 07, 2016, 10:41:53 AM

Quote from: RyanE on December 07, 2016, 10:28:58 AM
esims is not customer friendly outside a little gaggle of loyalists.

I am NOT a loyalist. I enjoy using their software. I do not agree with everything eSims do and I have said that publicly.

I thought that a forum was for sharing ideas and helping people. Not a place to attack people who reply with the intention of helping the situation in some way.

RyanE · December 07, 2016, 10:55:10 AM

A little defensive much...

Show me where i attacked and called you a loyalist please.