Combat Mission... Point of Re-entry....

PanzersEast · July 06, 2015, 05:48:10 PM

I have two picked out to re-enty into CMx3..... Red Thunder and Black Sea. Thoughts, feedback welcomed. I have read the reviews so I will start there, but from a person who has been out of the CM scene I am looking to get back in with the new engine and these two are my selection.... however I will be honest and say the Normandy Campaign is the most appealing to me.

PE

sandman2575 · July 06, 2015, 06:59:27 PM

Quote from: PanzersEast on July 06, 2015, 05:48:10 PM
I have two picked out to re-enty into CMx3..... Red Thunder and Black Sea. Thoughts, feedback welcomed. I have read the reviews so I will start there, but from a person who has been out of the CM scene I am looking to get back in with the new engine and these two are my selection.... however I will be honest and say the Normandy is the most appealing to me.

PE

My unhelpful but honest opinion is that both are awesome.

I'm an inveterate WW2-er... probably 75% of my wargaming is WW2-centered. So I've been surprised at how much I enjoy CM Black Sea. In some ways it has become my favorite CM title -- it's that good. So far I've really only concentrated on playing US forces -- I fully intend to get to Russian forces at some point, but for now, the US OOB has more than enough to keep me interested. Drone surveillance adds a very interesting aspect to combat obviously missing in the WW2 titles. Plus the sheer firepower a single US infantry platoon can bring to bear is pretty breathtaking when you're used to the limitations of WW2 combat capabilities. The Javelin ATGM system is a thing of beauty. As is the Paladin-Excalibur precision arty. In some ways playing the US makes things too easy -- they have some pretty substantial advantages over Russian forces -- but it's just damn fun to get all your pieces working in concert and wreak havoc on Putin's invading hordes ;)

Red Thunder is also great. I find it a welcome change from bocage combat in Normandy (which has never thrilled me, although I love Beyond Normandy as well as Fortress Italy). I started up the German campaign many months ago and am still not finished. I've poured ridiculous hours into it -- it's freaking enormous.

The lack of further development on Red Thunder is slightly worrying. Battlefront's moving on to the Bulge (which will no doubt be a first-day purchase for me) -- but I'd love to see them add a module to RT. My dream would be something centered around Case Blue, summer of '42, before the advent of the Panther and Tiger, when the Jerries had to make due with crappy MkIIIs and the like.

panzerde · July 06, 2015, 07:54:15 PM

I would echo Sandman's thoughts on both games. I'd add that playing the Russians in CMBS is a fun and enlightening experience, particularly after playing the US. The US capabilities are so tremendous at this point that as Sandman says, it can almost be too easy. There's a real sense of satisfaction in playing a Russian unit against a US force and winning. CMBS is really, really tough to beat.

Of the WWII CMx2 games, CMFI is probably my favorite, simply because it provides nationalities that are again very different from each other, in a theatre that is usually overlooked. CMRT is definitely a close second or tied though - at least if you're an armor fan. You get to play with all of the coolest armor from WWII and the maps are simply great.

Yes, the CMx2 engine still has it's foibles, but it really is the best we have at this point at what it does. One day someone will come up with something better, but until then there are hundreds of hours of great gaming in both of the titles you're talking about.

Michael Dorosh · July 06, 2015, 08:02:56 PM

Quote from: PanzersEast on July 06, 2015, 05:48:10 PM
I have two picked out to re-enty into CMx3..... Red Thunder and Black Sea. Thoughts, feedback welcomed. I have read the reviews so I will start there, but from a person who has been out of the CM scene I am looking to get back in with the new engine and these two are my selection.... however I will be honest and say the Normandy Campaign is the most appealing to me.

PE

Buy the one that interests you most, and try it. Actually, download the demo for free.

sandman2575 · July 06, 2015, 08:25:33 PM

Quote from: panzerde on July 06, 2015, 07:54:15 PM
Of the WWII CMx2 games, CMFI is probably my favorite, simply because it provides nationalities that are again very different from each other, in a theatre that is usually overlooked.

Agree CMFI/GL is terrific. Seems unfair that FI wound up the red-headed stepchild of the CMx2 franchise, for no reason other than that the theater is less well known than Normandy or the Eastern Front, like you say.

I actually prefer FI in many ways to Normandy. Bocage fighting, with the constant ambushes, starts to get on my nerves. The landscapes in FI and RT present more interesting challenges, IMO.

JasonPratt · July 07, 2015, 07:36:00 AM

I have absolutely no opinion because I haven't played any CMx2 (or x3) games yet; but I did decide a while back that FI/GL would be the first one I installed.

Still haven't played it, but it's installed. ;)

Father Ted · July 07, 2015, 01:25:54 PM

I would say If Normandy appeals most then go for that. CMBN does a great job of simulating that campaign. In fact that would be the thing to count against it - as others have posted above, slogging through that bocage can become tiresome. I have the Commonwealth and Market Garden modules which do give you different terrain as well as troops.

Another thing I would add is that I don't think you'll find that the new iterations of CM offer much change in gameplay compared to CMx1. Graphics are nicer and there's 1:1 troop representation, but it's still the same (superb) experience.

Pete Dero · July 07, 2015, 01:35:55 PM

Maybe check out some videos to make your mind up :

https://www.youtube.com/user/NormalDude1066/videos
https://www.youtube.com/user/Ithikial/videos

GJK · July 08, 2015, 04:22:23 AM

Quote from: Father Ted on July 07, 2015, 01:25:54 PM
I would say If Normandy appeals most then go for that. CMBN does a great job of simulating that campaign. In fact that would be the thing to count against it - as others have posted above, slogging through that bocage can become tiresome. I have the Commonwealth and Market Garden modules which do give you different terrain as well as troops.

Another thing I would add is that I don't think you'll find that the new iterations of CM offer much change in gameplay compared to CMx1. Graphics are nicer and there's 1:1 troop representation, but it's still the same (superb) experience.

I recently started a Pbem of CMBB - the first time in half a dozen or so years (or longer) and I'm totally enthralled with it. I enjoy the new look/graphics of CMx2/x3 and the updates/changes that those added but something about original still holds my heart. Maybe because I played (and dedicated) so much to it for so long. However I could absolutely see somebody that starts with the newer titles that goes back to see what the originals were like saying "you've got to be kidding me!".

Gusington · July 08, 2015, 06:41:50 AM

This thread is very useful for me since I too have never played any CM titles but am looking forward to purchasing both Red Thunder and Black Sea. Thanks for posting.

Sir Slash · July 08, 2015, 08:58:17 AM

I never played the modern day CM's, the weapon systems scare the pooh out of me. It's so easy to lose a whole bunch of guys in a New York Minute. But Red Thunder also doesn't get me all excited either. It just doesn't seem somehow East Front enough the way CMBB did. Probably it's the later time period. Also it's damned hard at times-- crossing open ground can be like walking barefoot across broken glass. As the Russians I feel like the only solution is to just throw troops at everything and hope for the best. Historical maybe but not something I enjoy. I like CMBN and CMFI better and with them upgraded to 3.0, they look just as good too.

Tuna · July 08, 2015, 10:16:59 AM

If he buys CMBN or FI new now, will it be 3.0, or will he need to buy the upgrade to get there?

bboyer66 · July 08, 2015, 10:18:30 AM

Recently I purchased CM Black Sea. While enjoyable, the spotting mechanics of the game just drive me nuts. Sometimes you can spot targets from far off, sometimes you cant see them right next to you. Really no rhyme or reason on how it works sometimes. That being said, I still find it quite enjoyable.

Freyland · July 08, 2015, 10:38:10 AM

Quote from: Tuna on July 08, 2015, 10:16:59 AM
If he buys CMBN or FI new now, will it be 3.0, or will he need to buy the upgrade to get there?

CMBN will require $10 for the 3.0 upgrade. I think FI/GL also require the upgrade, but those at least come with 2.0 to start with.

Elvis · July 08, 2015, 01:41:18 PM

Quote from: Freyland on July 08, 2015, 10:38:10 AM
Quote from: Tuna on July 08, 2015, 10:16:59 AM
If he buys CMBN or FI new now, will it be 3.0, or will he need to buy the upgrade to get there?
CMBN will require $10 for the 3.0 upgrade. I think FI/GL also require the upgrade, but those at least come with 2.0 to start with.

CMBN is now only available as 3.0. So, if you were to buy it today it is at 3.0.