Combat Mission:Shock Force issue

[JudgeDredd]

My Marders in my German campaign are not firing their missiles. I mean, I'm 3 missions in, they been engaged and engaged enemy tanks - but with their gun...none have fired their missiles.

Has anyone noticed this or am I just a bum  ;D

[WallysWorld]

Nothing specific about your issue, but I found this BF thread about the Marder choosing the wrong weapon to fire:  http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=93568

[JudgeDredd]

Thanks - I haven't been over there in quite some time and couldn't post (forgot PW etc).

[RyanE]

Do they need to be opened up to fire?

[JudgeDredd]

Do they need to be opened up to fire?

Not sure...but my units have been open when I can. They close of course when under fire...so having to be open seems weird

[Zulu1966]

My Marders in my German campaign are not firing their missiles. I mean, I'm 3 missions in, they been engaged and engaged enemy tanks - but with their gun...none have fired their missiles.

Has anyone noticed this or am I just a bum  ;D

Judge the vehicle needs to be opened up to fire the milan

[JudgeDredd]

Thanks Zulu (and RyanE)

But I am absolutely certain my unit IS opened up. However, obviously when it's taking incoming fire it automatically buttons up....which kind of equates to it NEVER firing it's Milan...right?

It doesn't make sense. If the unit is going to button up as soon as it is receiving incoming fire, it's highly unlikely to ever let off it's missiles 

[jomni]

Thanks Zulu (and RyanE)

But I am absolutely certain my unit IS opened up. However, obviously when it's taking incoming fire it automatically buttons up....which kind of equates to it NEVER firing it's Milan...right?

It doesn't make sense. If the unit is going to button up as soon as it is receiving incoming fire, it's highly unlikely to ever let off it's missiles 

You playing real-time or turn-based?  I guess there's more opportunity for you to force the guys to unbutton and fire in real-time even if only for a few seconds.

[JudgeDredd]

Turn based now Cyrano showed me the ways of the dark side  ;D

[Cyrano]

Well I posted to see if anyone has something to say on the matter...

Seems the least I can do for having saved you from the madness of RT :).

Best,

Jim
"Cyrano"
:/7)

[RyanE]

The Milan is a very long ranged weapon.  I think it pretty much expected if a TC comes under fire they will button up.  IIRC, the Milan would most likely be used in ambush or for an enemy that can't reach back out to it.

[Bletchley_Geek]

The Milan is a very long ranged weapon.  I think it pretty much expected if a TC comes under fire they will button up.  IIRC, the Milan would most likely be used in ambush or for an enemy that can't reach back out to it.

A similar "issue" manifests itself when one tries to use halftracks as close support infantry vehicles in the games set in WW2. And when I say close, I mean "well within the optimal range of enemy small arms" or less than 100 meters. The AI of the gunner ducks for cover as soon as enemy fire starts ricocheting on the front of the halftrack. There was a little issue with the German halftracks, in which the model of the gunner was a bit higher than it should, and was eventually corrected. Even after the fix, those gunners are still badly exposed (much less than the M2 and M3 halftrack gunners) , troops in CMx2 startingly behave like real people most of the time, so I have learnt not to expect from them "suicidal" behavior either.

In a modern setting, this is even more the case. Contemporary SOPs for AFV and IFV crews specify quite clearly that no crew member should be exposed when the vehicle is about to engage the enemy in close terrain or ranges. Bullet and fragment ricochets alone - not even aimed fire - are considered a major risk. Fatalities in Afghanistan amongst armoured vehicle crews concentrate on the drivers - as IEDs and mines do the most damage to the frontal part of the vehicle - and gunners - due to explosion concussion, fragments and sniper fire.

Same thing in the WW2 setting with tanks charging at enemy infantry unbuttoned - as soon as you get in the "zone" where small arms fire gets really accurate, you can pretty much be guaranteed that your AFV crew is going to take losses.

The "solution" to this is to use more realistic tactics - engage enemy infantry with open top AFV's from ranges their small arms fire is going to be ineffective (over 200 - 500 meters depending on the range of the enemy infantry weapons), and never engage infantry with unbuttoned tanks. Of course, things get "complicated" where the enemy infantry is supported by enemy tanks. In that case, until you neutralize the enemy armour, your armour is in turn neutralized as a infantry support weapon. This is discussed and emphasized on tactical manuals and also on books like

Panzer Tactics: German Small-Unit Armor Tactics in World War II
Wolfgang Schneider

which I think it's one of the best on the subject of armour tactics in WW2.

CMx2 get most of the time right the tactical relationships between armour and infantry - especially since they adjusted buttoned AFVs visibility and added the possibility of firing AT weapons from inside buildings - and it is indeed difficult to adjust to that when one comes from either CMx1, Close Combat or more abstract tactical war games.

[RyanE]

BMP2s have the same issue as the Marders.  They have a typical ground mount ATGM bolted on the roof and its fired in a very similar manner to its ground-fired equivalent.  It is very susceptible to suppression.

[jomni]

You guys make me want to reinstall this bugger.

[Bletchley_Geek]

You guys make me want to reinstall this bugger.

I'd wait for Black Sea.