The Same Units?

[MengJiao]

  I was looking over my old copy of Sweden Fights On (Musket and Pike, Nordlingen etc.) and intending to use the latest version of the rules
(Sweden Fights on is from 2003, the latest rules are version 6 from 2013 or 2014).  I was reading the errata and noticed that supposedly it was a problem that Sweden Fights on used the same counters in different battles.  Hoplite does this too, but it makes the multiple use less intrusive by simply numbering the units rather than labeling them N/B/W or something.  Hoplite is such an elegantly designed game!

But, then there is the question of the sameness of units.  This seems to be not a problem when there is so little information as is the case with hoplite formations  -- 1000 poorly trained Athenians is the same as another 1000 poorly trained Athenians.

But for the 17th century, the sameness of units seems a bit more problematic -- and all the more so since the Musket and Pike system supposedly tracks more states of the unit (formation, morale and strength) instead of just cohesion as a combination of the three.

Anyway -- just a note -- I may find a way to work out this angle to make the Musket and Pike system play a bit faster.

[calandale]

They came up with 'vanity' replacement counters in later editions of some of the
games with this issue. But, they have the same values. I'm not convinced that the
data is all that good on 30YW formations at most battles anyhow though. I've not
seen any really good source work. A hundred years later, and it's usually better, among
Western powers, but it's still fairly spotty at times. Given the logistical sophistication
in the 17th century - Ben's gotta be making some pretty heavy guesses on how much
of the unit is actually formed up.

[MengJiao]

They came up with 'vanity' replacement counters in later editions of some of the
games with this issue. But, they have the same values. I'm not convinced that the
data is all that good on 30YW formations at most battles anyhow though. I've not
seen any really good source work. A hundred years later, and it's usually better, among
Western powers, but it's still fairly spotty at times. Given the logistical sophistication
in the 17th century - Ben's gotta be making some pretty heavy guesses on how much
of the unit is actually formed up.

  I agree.  I'm finding some aspects of the Ben Hull musket and pike orders of battle and so on, not to be entirely convincing, more because of how
the system works for larger battles on complex terrain than anything else.