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Computer Wargaming / Re: Dominions 5- Warriors of the Faith
« Last post by Yskonyn on May 19, 2019, 08:57:53 AM »
So, time to necro this! Any of you gents have enough experience to ask me on a date now? 😉
Computer Wargaming / Re: Carriers at War
« Last post by The_Admiral on May 19, 2019, 06:25:58 AM »
Yes, good guess here Staggerwing, it's Jimmy Thach indeed!
In the end, it might sound weird, but Butch O'Hare never got to fly over a Japanese carrier task force before his dramatic demise. He was sent stateside and then to Hawaii after his MoH and didn't see combat again before mid 1943
Computer Wargaming / Re: Carriers at War
« Last post by Staggerwing on May 19, 2019, 05:41:18 AM »
One of these two guys?

If so, I'm guessing Thatch, because the scene looks like Midway and I think O'hare was Stateside then.
Ally/Opponent Finder / Re: Civ 6 + all expansions PBEM game recruiting
« Last post by Anguille on May 19, 2019, 12:39:31 AM »
And now I'm also going to be away from May 7 to 12.

But since I'm after Anguille I still get to blame him for the delay.  :D
Blame taken  ;)

Now i am back...and played my turn
Computer Wargaming / Re: Carriers at War
« Last post by The_Admiral on May 18, 2019, 11:00:48 PM »
The zoom in from 2d operational map all the way to a single carrier is ultra cool. Impressive to say the least  :notworthy: :bd:
Loving what I see so far  :smitten:

Thank you kind Sir!

Ok there we go

I don't know if I'm going to be able to articulate this properly, but here goes:
No worries mate! I am not even sure I am going to make my English understandable now that I ran out of coffee for the morning, but let's try.

What I'm hoping for in your game, or a game like it, is for something that plays similar to Scourge of War (Civil War series) using the commander/courier system mode.  What I find playing in that mode is that a lot of the really critical decisions are made long before contact with the enemy takes place.  You really have to have a good idea of what you're trying to achieve before you start issuing orders.  Once you've provided orders to all of your units, the game really begins to become managing controlled chaos.
Well, in that respect we're on the same page. Limited friendly feedback, command delays, limitations of comms and intercepts are to be an integral part of carrier command as a simulation. The comparison with a Civil War game is not that far-fetched: SBDs jockeys would routinely use beanbags to communicate with their homeplate in proximity of the task force before being recovered in order not to risk a SIGINT intercept (yeah, by that I mean dropping a small purse on the deck of the carrier during a flyby) ; whenever possible, the carrier would use lights to communicate with planes aloft ; CAP fighters would use wing banks or hand signals when flying low alongside the carrier's island ; flags & lights were used extensively for task force coordination, the only exception being the TBS (Talk Between Ship) system, which was good for a chat but not so much for everything else as there were risks of garble and sometimes just sheer inability to copy a message. Yes, comms are central, and the way you send messages to everybody will be carefully monitored at the highest level of realism. With lower levels of realism selected, a feature which should be kept as an option in order not to scare everybody off, let's say it will just play like a classic historical RTS - and feel like most wargames dedicated to this topic in the 1990s. Make no mistake, I don't call that a command simulation for nothing. Carriers at War, Pacific Air War, Great Naval Battles or HPS Midway are great games, and the some of them have made me the man I am today, but I don't plan on making a mere 3D adaptation of them. I would like to bring something new to the table, and arguably at a time when everybody is innovating (Unity of Command with its intuitiveness, AI and overall production, Radio Commander/General with their view of command, Command Ops with its real time take on non-hex command, Decisive Campaigns with its narrative and event engine, etc...) it sounds to me like the new normal.

Another example of what you'd find in our game that has never been done before to my knowledge would be the use of actual friendly fog of war. The topic was touched in Radio Commander, but it's no different for carrier combat - and made even more critical by the abundant existing literature about the topic. If you send a scout plane out there, there is simply no way for you to know in real time where it is and what it is doing. When reporting a contact, especially over the ocean, you have to take into account that the scouting crew own idea of where it is itself implies a certain margin of error that you *might* correct somewhat with a radio direction finding check, possibly augmented by a third-party friendly radio plot (often unlikely in 1942). There is no single occurrence on the US side of a pinpoint sighting in 1942. So far existing games have always kept it to a bare minimum (aka force mis-identification) and it seems to me that there is still some room left for further development. Add to this that there is simply no way a base would know about the loss of its scout if this one didn't send a report when attacked - there again, combat history is packed with examples of Japanese seaplanes, including flying boats, getting shot down so quick by US CAP that they never had a chance to send a message. In a case like that, Rabaul for instance wouldn't be aware of the loss before the next radio check, usually on the return leg around Bougainville, which means that quite a few hours could pass without the base getting any notice of the loss - this is one of the reasons why Fletcher never got attacked during the landing phase of Watchtower. These precious hours lost and uncertainty have rarely been simulated before, and in my opinion should be part of the whole experience more often than not.

What I mean is that as the troops move out, eventually contact will develop with the enemy.  At that point the lines start to meander around and, using the courier system, you have to conceptualize how you want the troops to move and order themselves, but also try to account for the difficulties inherent in having the computer properly interpret what you're telling it to do.  Again, it's hard to put exactly into words, but rarely does the battle evolve exactly as planned.  As the troops react during the fighting, things just get messy, and you as the commander are adapting to things that are completely out of your control.  It feels more authentic than selecting a group of troops and then clicking on the map where you want them to go.
No worries I know what you mean. In that regard hopefully some day I'll be able to propose something along the lines of good old 1989 Waterloo ( Funny and depressing both to see how simple game concepts in the era of CGA/EGA fared better in 1989 than they do today, right?
I'll make no mystery, even if the latter half of our product name will broadly follow "Andrews' standard for WW2 game nomenclature" (c) we want to make the whole experience sort of new by putting the men rather than the machines in the spotlight, and this will be featured in the title. The intent is very much like everything you have described here: we're playing people, not robots, and there has to be room for mistakes and misjudgements - and drama alike. We envision an event engine that will feature dynamic events (the likes of flight deck SNAFU, equipment failure, message relay delay, coding mistakes...) and scripted ones (specific to each scenario, with specific messages, notable events & even some flagplot drama - such as Forrest Biard's disagreement with Fletcher on the night before the Coral Sea last day, for instance). Mistakes were made but they are part of the whole experience: if we want the player to make them too, he needs to be given a proper environment and proper rules to recreate the very same battlefield uncertainty commanders had to face back then.

What I'd like to see, and what I think you're doing, is to get that feel of being the commander on the bridge of a carrier, using similar map tools that they actually used for planning back then.  I'd like to be able to have enough sea room and time to develop a full blown plan, and then communicate that to my subordinates, but let them interpret and manage those orders their way.  As the enemy is detected, I'd like to have the challenges of getting my planes airborne and grouped together in a timely manner like the commanders experienced in the early war, and be faced with the difficult decision of whether to wait until my units get coordinated, or send them on their way piecemeal.  I want the units to have trouble finding the enemy, challenges maintaining cohesion, and I want the challenge of interpreting battle results from pilot reports after the strike.  When the enemy attacks, I want to feel the smoke and confusion of battle, the challenge of continuing to plan while the ship is maneuvering radically and being hit by bombs.

And so on.
Well, I'll take the risk of sounding boring by telling you that we fully intend to have all of this from the get-go.  ^-^

If you've played SoW then you'll know what I mean.  Once the battle is truly joined, your ability to control things rapidly diminishes.  Most of the really important decisions take place before the enemy is even found, and then early in the battle.  I think there are similarities between that and carrier warfare, where the really important decisions are made early in the battle.  Once the enemy carriers are spotted and the strikes are on their way, there's really very little for the commander to do. 

I knew this was going to be hard to explain, and I'm rambling, but..well there it is.

Well, yeah, that's the problem with Carrier combat though, it's that I am not sure people will find the tension waiting for the strike to reach its target absolutely nail-biting. Arleigh Burke (if I am not mistaken) used to say that he was exchanging fishing stories with Mitscher waiting for the flight packages to come back. Fortunately early war CV to CV combat will provide ample opportunities for pleasantries exchanges with the enemy, so it shouldn't be as void as it sounds - but that is also why difficulty and realism settings will be tweakable. If you want a full experience from the flag plot and the CV island side catwalk, it will be possible. If you want to enable 3D view, and disable friendly FoW in order to follow your planes around and watch them fight, it is possible too. One size might not fit all, but we are bringing the whole shop with us.

Besides, fear not, we intend on having a replay module (with full 3D functionality, actual and hidden message logs, detailed damages, etc...) that will allow you to analyze the action as a all-knowing post-combat feature, so that you might pick the highest realism setting and still have the possibility of checking how your birds performed and did their job after the battle. After all, it would be rather awkward to have a great 3D engine and prevent you from taking nice screenshots for your AAR, wouldn't it  >:D

Every time an update is posted here I just kind of blubber incoherently and clap very loudly emitting squeals like and excited child. 

So you're doing better than me.

Awwww. You are a good man. You certainly deserve a treat!
Here's Julien Lepelletier's latest version of the commission he kindly took for us. He added the whole TF action, and apart from a few tweaks to the clouds it is pretty much ready. That would make for a great mouse mat for the collector edition, don't ya think?  :smitten:

A question for you Ladies & Gents: who's the guy flying this one?

Look at that beauty, you can nearly hear the Twin Wasp roar from here!

Music, TV, Movies / Catch 22 - New Hulu Series
« Last post by ArizonaTank on May 18, 2019, 10:47:59 PM »
Streaming now... Catch 22, Hulu Series

I am a big fan of the book....I thought the 1970 movie was a little hard to take...but am enjoying this new series.

Computer Wargaming / Re: Deity Empires on Sale at Steam
« Last post by Tanaka on May 18, 2019, 10:25:45 PM »
Great update on the recent game changes from Das:
Computer Wargaming / Re: For those about to FRIDAY (We salute you)!
« Last post by Moreb on May 18, 2019, 10:15:21 PM »
Been working 12 hour nights and then again today so no time for anything else so far. But that is done so now I'll try out some Mius Front again. What a shocker.
Books & Reading / Re: Herman Wouk (author of The Caine Mutiny) has died
« Last post by Tripoli on May 18, 2019, 07:49:08 PM »
If you get a chance, watch the "Winds of War" and "War and Remembrance" Miniseries.  They are excellent.  Wouk was the screenwriter, and was given 30 hours of screentime to translate the novels to the screen.  Fair Winds and Following Seas, LT Wouk
Computer Wargaming / Re: Carriers at War
« Last post by SirAndrewD on May 18, 2019, 07:41:04 PM »

I knew this was going to be hard to explain, and I'm rambling, but..well there it is.

Every time an update is posted here I just kind of blubber incoherently and clap very loudly emitting squeals like and excited child. 

So you're doing better than me.
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