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Professional Simulation - Digital / Combat Mission in the Real World
« Last post by Jarhead0331 on June 09, 2020, 07:25:17 AM »
How some of our favorite wargames are being used by real warfighters.
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GameTalk / Re: The Art of Conflict 5.0
« Last post by The_Admiral on December 08, 2019, 06:04:31 AM »
I know I shouldn't put half a finger in this mess, but still thank you for the sweet mention Andrew  :)
I am sympathetic to their cause, to some extent - I got published when I was 15 in the French magazine dedicated to computer wargames for a monster scenario on TOAW1 (I used every inch of the available space on the map that wouldn't require the player to run OPART 500 I think!). Let's say it was the first obvious external indication that I had that bug in me, and 20 years later here I am.

Now now. Making scenarios is easy. I did it, and I will do it again for my game (if it ever comes out, that is). But starting a new game from scratch without a motivated and skilled team sounds very adventurous. Still, TOAW is no black magic, Norm Koger kept it simple from the beginning. The genius and the generosity of the design is in its versatility, not its complexity - akin to Steel Panthers for instance, but technically the complete opposite of WitP or WitE, if I want to keep using Gary Grisby-based metaphors. I think that cloning TOAW really ain't the end of the world, but you need someone who's good at modern, up to date coding AND loves the series. This is where things get tricky.

My dev loves the PTO, loves planes and has all the basic culture one would need to bring us to the end of this long journey. I wish them luck in finding a guy like him - but it ain't simple.  I have a few in mind, but they all started their own thing - in the age of Unity of command, or Radio Commander/General, it is not easy to convince a young chap to get back to the basics while only marginally improving on them. Obviously, we're not remaking Great Naval Battles, Pacific Air War or Fighting Steel with the graphics and mechanics of the time - we embarked ourselves on something new and this is partly what keeps us motivated. Like some others say, I am not sure TOAW absolutely needs to be remade, it served and still serves its purpose - and might still do so for the decade to come the way it is.
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GameTalk / Re: The Art of Conflict 5.0
« Last post by SirAndrewD on December 08, 2019, 01:06:18 AM »
A victory lap?? For what? Creating ill will among a potential buyers of their future game?

It doesn't look like they took an instant to understand us, and refused to give an instant for us to understand them. 

PopeFrancis had a good approach.  I'd say again, just heck, we'd like to know who randomly shows up and get communicated to. 

You can pile on us on your new forum for not understanding and having a handful of random comments all you want.  More power to you.  Try sitting on a high horse and dictating what is a "Grog" game and what is not.  Tell those of us here we're not Grogs, many of us who were service members, historians (I'm one, published), or other and running off and saying we're children.

You're taking a couple of days worth of your own issues and applying it to this forum.  I'll stand by our people here 100%.  We might be goofy sometimes but that does not mean we're not serious about our hobby.  Damn, you see what I spend every year on it you'd be nuts.  And again, I don't give a carp if I make a few jokes on some threads. 

Anyway, I think some of you guys had a misunderstanding.  All I can see is that a lot of you are happy about pissing off people that might've supported you. But, it is what it is.
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GameTalk / Re: The Art of Conflict 5.0
« Last post by Gusington on December 07, 2019, 08:13:09 AM »
A victory lap?? For what? Creating ill will among a potential buyers of their future game?
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GameTalk / Re: The Art of Conflict 5.0
« Last post by Jarhead0331 on December 07, 2019, 07:00:44 AM »
They are gone and have transitioned to their own forum. They are actually doing a victory lap over there. Iím embarrassed for them.



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GameTalk / Re: The Art of Conflict 5.0
« Last post by SirAndrewD on December 06, 2019, 10:53:01 PM »
No worries.  I completely understand.  What we'd like to do is write a wargame to replace TOAW.  We're sick of the vaporware shuffle and we're trying to take matters into our own hands.  So far there's only 5 of us but it's only just now gotten off the ground.  We're moving over here from the Matrix site to avoid any unpleasantness or lawsuits, etc.  I'm one of the TOAW playtesters and I detected my boss peaking in yesterday so he probably knows what we're up to.  Oh well.  Can't keep it a secret for long anyway. 

I'm wondering if we should write it from fresh scratch in C# or if we should use one of those game-building software packages.  Anybody have any experience with those?  I'll have to look into it.  Google "free game building software" or something.  I've already downloaded the 2017 version of MS Visual Studio (Enterprise Edition) for free and installed it.  Now I need to teach myself C# I suppose. 

I have no idea what we're getting into but who knows it might be fun.


Cool and ambitious goal.  Yeah, I think you could find a lot of help from a lot of people here with the approach of bringing that up and addressing the community.   

I think as was said earlier, you're probably better off doing the "work" part of your operation on your own forum where you can moderate responses and keep things on track.  But Opening and having a regularly running Dev blog over here could probably bring you a lot of help and attention that you might find valuable.  It's worked for other developers that wanted to engage over here. 

We're still going to likely leave a random comment here or there.  But, if you engage with us and ask us to stay strict and on topic in your threads, you'll be surprised to find that we will.  You guys just need to engage with the community, it's very welcoming when you do.
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GameTalk / Re: The Art of Conflict 5.0
« Last post by Staggerwing on December 06, 2019, 05:38:34 PM »
Dude! You're harshing their mellow!
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GameTalk / Re: The Art of Conflict 5.0
« Last post by Grim.Reaper on December 06, 2019, 05:05:37 PM »
I for one can say I'm 1000% confused as to WTF is going on here.  So, sorry for my previous random comment, I try to be welcoming to new people with a bit of humor.

If you want to see how a developer can come to this forum and build a following, check out the Admiral's developer thread on Task Force Admiral.  He came on, was open, friendly, and directly discussed what he wanted to do. 

He got volunteers, financial offers, and a lot of support and advice.  We keep on giving it too. 

Being a Grog absolutely means there's some grumbles.  But, we're still a community that goes back to the old Wargamer days.   We have a sense of humor to which we are not apologetic.  And we also deeply support people that want to build and develop.  We just kind of like to know WTF is going on first. 

Forgive us for being a bit contrary and confused for a lot of people with less than 10 posts appearing and not telling us who and what they are.   We get a TON of bots here and sometimes we expect the worst.

Anyway, accept my apology for a random funny comment, or don't.  I can grumble with the rest of them, but I prefer not to if possible.
No worries.  I completely understand.  What we'd like to do is write a wargame to replace TOAW.  We're sick of the vaporware shuffle and we're trying to take matters into our own hands.  So far there's only 5 of us but it's only just now gotten off the ground.  We're moving over here from the Matrix site to avoid any unpleasantness or lawsuits, etc.  I'm one of the TOAW playtesters and I detected my boss peaking in yesterday so he probably knows what we're up to.  Oh well.  Can't keep it a secret for long anyway. 

I'm wondering if we should write it from fresh scratch in C# or if we should use one of those game-building software packages.  Anybody have any experience with those?  I'll have to look into it.  Google "free game building software" or something.  I've already downloaded the 2017 version of MS Visual Studio (Enterprise Edition) for free and installed it.  Now I need to teach myself C# I suppose. 

I have no idea what we're getting into but who knows it might be fun.


If you want some honest advice and thoughts based on the comments I have seen here and read over at the Matrix forum?  Team is well underestimating the effort to pull this off.  Creating a modern cross-platform strategy wargame would take considerable effort and skill to pull off.  Most of the discussion so far was about what development language or what file format the editor files should be in.....those things should be the furthest thing from your mind at this point.  How are you going to come up with the actual game design?  How are you going to figure out the AI?  How will this be different from TOAW?  TOAW was built over the last decade or more, how are you going to replicate that kind of knowledge?  Where is everyone going to find the time to devote thousands and thousands of hours to complete this work?

After you figure that out, you will eventually need to figure out how to physically develop it.  The tools mentioned so far are not going to cut it (i.e. Python, software game builders, COBOL, etc.).  Do you have people well versed and available to create code in modern tools?  And then when your complete, your going to give away in free open source?

Certainly applaud you for your goals and desire, but think your in for some surprises and a long road ahead of you.....
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GameTalk / Re: The Art of Conflict 5.0
« Last post by PopeFrancis on December 06, 2019, 04:56:56 PM »
I for one can say I'm 1000% confused as to WTF is going on here.  So, sorry for my previous random comment, I try to be welcoming to new people with a bit of humor.

If you want to see how a developer can come to this forum and build a following, check out the Admiral's developer thread on Task Force Admiral.  He came on, was open, friendly, and directly discussed what he wanted to do. 

He got volunteers, financial offers, and a lot of support and advice.  We keep on giving it too. 

Being a Grog absolutely means there's some grumbles.  But, we're still a community that goes back to the old Wargamer days.   We have a sense of humor to which we are not apologetic.  And we also deeply support people that want to build and develop.  We just kind of like to know WTF is going on first. 

Forgive us for being a bit contrary and confused for a lot of people with less than 10 posts appearing and not telling us who and what they are.   We get a TON of bots here and sometimes we expect the worst.

Anyway, accept my apology for a random funny comment, or don't.  I can grumble with the rest of them, but I prefer not to if possible.
No worries.  I completely understand.  What we'd like to do is write a wargame to replace TOAW.  We're sick of the vaporware shuffle and we're trying to take matters into our own hands.  So far there's only 5 of us but it's only just now gotten off the ground.  We're moving over here from the Matrix site to avoid any unpleasantness or lawsuits, etc.  I'm one of the TOAW playtesters and I detected my boss peaking in yesterday so he probably knows what we're up to.  Oh well.  Can't keep it a secret for long anyway. 

I'm wondering if we should write it from fresh scratch in C# or if we should use one of those game-building software packages.  Anybody have any experience with those?  I'll have to look into it.  Google "free game building software" or something.  I've already downloaded the 2017 version of MS Visual Studio (Enterprise Edition) for free and installed it.  Now I need to teach myself C# I suppose. 

I have no idea what we're getting into but who knows it might be fun.
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GameTalk / Re: The Art of Conflict 5.0
« Last post by Jarhead0331 on December 06, 2019, 04:32:07 PM »
DD696, you have been nothing by rude, hostile and belligerent since you came here, and for entirely no reason whatsoever.

You have tried my patience beyond that of any one in recent memory. We are fortunate to have a great community here.

I'm giving you a 7 day time out to think and reflect upon your attitude. You're welcome to start over when the ban expires, I do not hold grudges.
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