GrogHeads Forum

Tabletop Gaming, Models, and Minis => Forum-Based Games => Topic started by: GJK on November 26, 2013, 10:04:30 AM

Title: DEC 2013 TS forum game archive
Post by: GJK on November 26, 2013, 10:04:30 AM
Ok folks - if you've been following the conversion in Brant's topic "Online Group Wargame?", you will be aware that we've been given the green light to organize a Coop game of Twilight Struggle for GH members. 

If you haven't been following that thread, check out page 3 for links to some player aids for Twilight Struggle (TS).  Those should get anybody up to speed on how to play TS.  For those wanting the rules as written, they are available on GMT's website here: http://www.gmtgames.com/living_rules/TSRules2nd.pdf

Here's the game plan.  We'll field two teams; one will play as the U.S., the other as the Soviet Union.  How many per team will depend on the interest level.  Teams need not be an equal number but we'll try and even them out.  Game play will be simple for the players - each time will have a private area on the forum and you will be shown what your current hand of cards are (by me).  Your team will discuss the course of action for the current round and then submit your play in this thread.  Game play will be what card #/card title that you selected from your hand, and whether you playing it for the event or for the Operational value and then any actions needed based on your card play (the event or what you'll be doing with the OP points and where).  I will post a picture of the card that was selected and then will update a VASSAL gameplay of the current situation and post a screenshot of it here for all to see and follow along.

We can use ACTS (http://acts.warhorsesim.com/index.asp) to keep track of the card/die rolls, or, if I'm trusted with it, I can use the VASSAL module to deal out the cards and then share the hands with the appropriate teams.  Either works for me.  If we do use ACTS, we will need team captains to set up a game on that system so my leaning is to just let me be the neutral party and use the VASSAL module to deal out the cards.  We can take a vote on that.

So, what do we need of you guys?  Volunteers right now.  Leave a post if you're interested in playing and which side you have a preference for.  If you're new to TS, I can help you with the rules, share play aids and get you up to speed.  This is a really simple game to play and since each round is simply a card selection and placing a few markers (basically), the time requirements will be very minimal.  The banter in  your respective team areas will take up the most time from you - I'll be doing all of the work as far as updating and showing the cards/board.

So - who's in?
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 26, 2013, 10:24:07 AM
First...thanks for coordinating all of this, GJK. Mighty awesome of you.

Second, I'm fine with you handling logistics; you mentioned 'if we trust you' and I don't think that will be an issue.

Third, if you need any help at all, don't hesitate to ask.

Fourth, hell yeah, I want to play! I'd be down for the Soviet side, but honestly I don't mind playing either.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: bayonetbrant on November 26, 2013, 10:27:50 AM
Gary - I'd recommend you just run it on VASSAL to cut down on coordination.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: GJK on November 26, 2013, 10:32:20 AM
Gary - I'd recommend you just run it on VASSAL to cut down on coordination.

That's what I'm leaning towards.  I'll just deal up the hands for each side and then take a screen grab of each side's hand and then post that screenshot in their respective forum area so that they can noodle on their card selection.  I could keep a running log in VASSAL as well and save that.  It could then be shared on this public area after each turn. 

So, we have Banzai_Cat for team Soviets.  A "dead red".  Thanks for the offer to help by the way, I'll certainly take you up on that if things get crazy.  :)

Who's the first for team USA?
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: bayonetbrant on November 26, 2013, 10:40:01 AM
I posted a note in the TS folder at CSW.  Also, be aware that you'll probably get more eyes this evening after folks get home from work and plug in, too.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: undercovergeek on November 26, 2013, 10:48:24 AM
ill join either side but ill be no good as a team captain - ive only seen the outside of the box - ill be rule reading this weekend!
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: GJK on November 26, 2013, 10:51:26 AM
I posted a note in the TS folder at CSW.  Also, be aware that yo'll probably get more eyes this evening after folks get home from work and plug in, too.

You read my mind - I was thinking of doing the same. 
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: Ubercat on November 26, 2013, 11:03:18 AM
I'm in. Side doesn't matter. I last played this on Vassal over a year ago, maybe two, and there was a bug in the "Red Scare" card. The title is more than "red scare", but I don't recall the rest of the name. It's a dual card with the event firing for whichever side plays it. The bug was that the event was only working for one side. I don't recall which side that was but the other could only seem to use it for Ops. Hopefully that's been fixed.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: undercovergeek on November 26, 2013, 11:04:46 AM
I'm in. Side doesn't matter. I last played this on Vassal over a year ago, maybe two, and there was a bug in the "Red Scare" card. The title is more than "red scare", but I don't recall the rest of the name. It's a dual card with the event firing for whichever side plays it. The bug was that the event was only working for one side. I don't recall which side that was but the other could only seem to use it for Ops. Hopefully that's been fixed.

we are destined to be opposed UC!
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: Barthheart on November 26, 2013, 01:27:20 PM
I'd like in. I've play TS once face to face a while ago.

Don't care which side.... maybe commies as my FtF game was as the US....

Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: GJK on November 26, 2013, 01:39:37 PM
Ok, this is who I have playing so far.  At this rate, we'll have the game ready to go by the weekend (or whenever Brant can get the forums set up).

Nothing here is etched in stone, if you wish to be on the other side, just let me know.  Right now, another US player would be good.

Player     Side     
Banzai_CatSoviets
undercovergeekUSA
UbercatSoviets
BarthheartSoviets
bob48USA
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: bayonetbrant on November 26, 2013, 01:50:46 PM
I'll get them set up tonight and get players tentatively assigned to teams.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: bob48 on November 26, 2013, 02:04:20 PM
I just downloaded the rules so I can get some idea of how it works.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 26, 2013, 03:03:25 PM
For anyone who's never played it (and it's been a while for me), there's a good site out there with lots of TS tips, including analysis of what looks like each card.

http://twilightstrategy.com/

Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: GJK on November 26, 2013, 03:10:35 PM
I just downloaded the rules so I can get some idea of how it works.

Really simple game (I found).  I'm no TS expert but if you or anybody has any questions about rules or how the game works, feel free to ask.  If I can't answer the question, I'm sure that someone else here can answer it or if not, we'll get the answer from CSW or GMT games themselves if need be.  I don't anticipate any of us having a problem with the RAW though.

There's a number of online resources for the game as well:
http://twilightstrategy.com/new-to-twilight-struggle/ (http://twilightstrategy.com/new-to-twilight-struggle/)

And if you youtube "Twilight Struggle" there's several videos though I haven't found one that just teaches the game (yet).  Most are how to set up VASSAL, how to use wargameroom.com, etc.  I'll keep searching though.

Edit: Banzai_cat beat me to it re: twilightstrategy.com
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: GJK on November 26, 2013, 03:20:50 PM
Here's a good 10 minute overview of the game:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ydaQP3GPRpE&list=PL83C09D34031F572F
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 26, 2013, 04:03:15 PM
Honestly, I'm not delving too deep into this strategy stuff. I don't want to play against some mega-TS overlords or anything, ones with gambits and plans and strategies laid out and play it like lightning rounds of chess. I'd rather game this with a group that's new to it, as I pretty much am.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: GJK on November 26, 2013, 05:03:09 PM
Honestly, I'm not delving too deep into this strategy stuff. I don't want to play against some mega-TS overlords or anything, ones with gambits and plans and strategies laid out and play it like lightning rounds of chess. I'd rather game this with a group that's new to it, as I pretty much am.

I think that would be the most enjoyable game for us.   What we have in this group now is new players or guys that have only played a handful of games or less (and that was some time ago) so this will be a unique experience for you all.  FWIU, the game moves in to a different level of play once players learn the cards and when or how to play what.  I've tried the game using wargameroom.com playing with a stranger on the other end and no sooner than I did my play, he had already done his and was waiting on me again.  I felt pressured and couldn't sit back and enjoy the game and think about my next play.  I would like to see a nice, leasurly rate of play with this one.  I think this unique approach - having teams of players - will put a new perspective on the game with lots of debate and banter and (hopefully) some trash talking (all in jest) and I think we'll have a really great time of it.  Plus, to be honest, I'm not going to be able to update the game board and screenshot and post status updates more than once a day - perhaps a couple of times on a weekend if the rounds are ready that quickly and there very well may be days that I just can't process the round at all that evening and so it will have to wait a day.  Again, a leasurly pace.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: Staggerwing on November 26, 2013, 05:18:23 PM
I'd like to get in on this as well if it's not too late. I don't own TS so I would also need to read up on the rules. Bob, where did you find them online?
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: GJK on November 26, 2013, 06:05:01 PM
I'd like to get in on this as well if it's not too late. I don't own TS so I would also need to read up on the rules. Bob, where did you find them online?

Absolutely stagger, is team USA ok for you? 

Here's the link to the post that I made that had some attachments for simple playaids for TS:

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=8385.msg209326#msg209326

And the rules themselves can be downloaded from:

http://www.gmtgames.com/living_rules/TSRules2nd.pdf
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 26, 2013, 06:08:16 PM
Ok, this is who I have playing so far. 
Player     Side     
Banzai_CatSoviets
UbercatSoviets
BarthheartSoviets

Comrade Ubercat and Comrade Barthheart, prepare to pave the world with the golden dialectic of Lenin, over the tombs of Imperialist capitalist dogma!
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: GJK on November 26, 2013, 06:18:35 PM
And the smack talking starts already...love it!

Ok, here's an updated roster:

     Player          Side     


     Banzai_Cat     Soviets
     Ubercat     Soviets
     Barthheart     Soviets


     undercovergeek     USA
     bob48     USA
     staggerwing     USA
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: bayonetbrant on November 26, 2013, 06:26:11 PM
OK - creating team forums tonight

edit:  they're there now.  y'all go check and make sure you can get into your board, but not the other

GJK - you should be able to get into both
Title: DEC 2013 TS forum game archive
Post by: bayonetbrant on November 26, 2013, 06:32:54 PM
Gary's thread for turn-by-turn updates, as well as smack talk, deal-cutting, and spectator sarcasm.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: Barthheart on November 26, 2013, 06:45:16 PM
OK, are we going to ham this up so we make the front page?

Since each team has three players we can make a triumvirate of power for each:
US:
President
Sec. of State
Chairman of Joint Chiefs

USSR:
Premier
General Secretary of the Army
General Secretary of State

The first stage of each round is "Headlines". Maybe these could be presented as headlines of respective newspapers.
 
I nominate Comrade Banzai Cat to the position of Premier of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: Barthheart on November 26, 2013, 06:48:55 PM
OK - creating team forums tonight

edit:  they're there now.  y'all go check and make sure you can get into your board, but not the other

GJK - you should be able to get into both

Works for me, I can see our party forum and the general forum but not the capitalist dog's forum.
Title: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 26, 2013, 07:47:01 PM
Note, Comrades, that we are known as "The Party," whereas America only has elephant and jackass, no?

This is thread test to ensure Western decadent technologies created by swine-fingered slave-driving corporate lackeys has not failed the glorious Revolution.

I have no idea how to organize this thread except perhaps to create a new thread for each turn, and to just use this one for general discussion. If you guys have a better idea, note that we are all equal in the eyes of the Revolution (with some, of course, being more equal than others, as Comrade Stalin used to say).
Title: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on November 26, 2013, 07:50:02 PM
Time to make the World safe for mushy peas, err…Apple Pie!
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: Staggerwing on November 26, 2013, 07:56:09 PM
OK - creating team forums tonight

edit:  they're there now.  y'all go check and make sure you can get into your board, but not the other

GJK - you should be able to get into both

Works for me, I can see our party forum and the general forum but not the capitalist dog's forum.

Same here- Freedom's light shines brightly on the West but all is darkness, cold, and despair over in commiepinkoland.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: bayonetbrant on November 26, 2013, 07:59:58 PM
I'm going to move this thread into the TS area now.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 26, 2013, 08:03:16 PM
OK - creating team forums tonight

edit:  they're there now.  y'all go check and make sure you can get into your board, but not the other

GJK - you should be able to get into both

Works for me, I can see our party forum and the general forum but not the capitalist dog's forum.

Same here- Freedom's light shines brightly on the West but all is darkness, cold, and despair over in commiepinkoland.

Pfui. Is conservation of power so as to not strain glorious workers, which is why lights are off here. Unlike in corporate slave land where workers make a pittance for the sweat of their brow and are made docile by McDonalds and pro sports activities. Bah!
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Barthheart on November 26, 2013, 08:04:21 PM
Sounds like a good plan to Comrade Premier.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 26, 2013, 08:28:15 PM
You wish to be Secretary of Army, Comrade? Or State?

Is good for hamming up of threads, yes, but all are equal of course.

I am going to go WAY overboard on this, just FYI. :)
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Barthheart on November 26, 2013, 09:26:11 PM
I would strive to be Comrade General of the Armed Forces.

We will use our tanks to grind up weak, decadent Western troops.

Yeah, over the top is good for stuff like this. I see us "faking" power struggles over card plays etc. I plan to push for military "solutions" to most actions.

Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: Staggerwing on November 27, 2013, 04:31:46 AM
^Sounds like the 'workers' paradise' could use some decaf  :D

Meanwhile:
I got a pm from Gary (GJK) saying he is accidentally locked out of these sub forums. He hopes to be back in after the mods fix it but asked me to pass this on:

Hey Stagger-

Brant's tweaking of the forums last night left me with only access to the "religion, politics and flamewars" forum - doh!  I've sent him a private message and I'm sure that he'll have me fixed up at some point today.

In the meantime, could you let the group know about my situation and that I do have some ideas for presenting the news headlines and that I will be getting a screenshot of the initial board set up posted when I get home from work today.  I'll also shuffle and deal cards and present the hands to the teams so that you guys can deliberate on your initial headline play for turn 1.

I'll post some more once I'm back in to the forums.

Thanks!!!
Gary
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 05:49:00 AM
Ok teams - Brant has fixed my access abilities to the various forums including the public and private forums for our game.

Here's my suggestion for how play should proceed:

NEW TURNS
1. I'll update the DEFCON status and tidy up the game board and post a screenshot. 
2. I will then deal the hands and present those hands to each team in their PRIVATE FORUM.  Play will then proceed:

HEADLINE PHASE
1. During the Headline Phase where a card needs to be selected from your hand for play, noodle on it here in your private forum and once you have reached a decision, announce the card that you wish to play HERE IN YOUR PRIVATE FORUM. 
2. I will reveal your teams card as well as them other guys' card SIMULTANEOUSLY on the PUBLIC forum. 
3. Per the rules, the card played with the highest OP value will have its event played first.  In the event of a tie, the USA team plays first. 
4. After the cards are revealed, if it is your HEADLINE PHASE, hold your private meetings to discuss the strategy for playing the EVENT on that card and then present your option to the PUBLIC forum.  I will then update the game board and post the results to the PUBLIC forum.

ACTION ROUNDS
1. Same thing basically, except that the USSR goes first in the ACTION ROUNDS, so if it is your teams turn, decide upon your next card play and how it will be played (OPS or for the EVENT) and then go ahead and present it to the PUBLIC FORUM along with your action(s). 
2. I will update the board after each team plays their ACTION ROUND card.

DIE ROLLS
1. I'm going to research some online die rollers that will log the rolls and let everyone see what is rolled for fairness sake.  For simplicity sake, I could just roll it in the VASSAL module and then reveal what was rolled.  Either works for me and we can discuss the idea in the TWILIGHT STRUGGLE general discussion area (NOT THE PUBLIC FORUM).

2. If you're attempting a COUP or playing on the SPACE RACE track or attempting a REALIGNMENT; all items that require a die roll, post your requested action and I'll make the roll and then present that die roll result and will update the game board and present those results in the PUBLIC FORUM.

That's as far as I've thought it out so far (I think).  I'm open for suggestions! 

My idea is to make this "flavor rich", meaning heavy Soviet and USA history intertwined with the card play during the game.  I'll post random images related to the the card played (perhaps) and what ever other ideas that I/we come up with.

I am NEUTRAL.  I'm not going to make suggestions on game play, give tips or anything that will provide any type of edge to one team or the other.  I've posted links to the rulebook and have uploaded some play-aids and a link has been provided to http://twilightstrategy.com/new-to-twilight-struggle/ which has good tips and hints on play/play strategy. 

Note that the DISCARD PILE is open for inspection at any time per the rules.  If you need to inspect the DISCARD PILE, post a note in your PRIVATE FORUM and I will figure out a way to give a listing of cards that are in the DISCARD PILE.  I'm sure that there is a card manifest on BGG and I will most likely use that. 

Questions or suggestions - just let me know.  Post a note in the PUBLIC, PRIVATE forum.  I think for fairness sake, I should not receive nor answer any PM's related to the game as those Q&A's should be viewable by all.

Good luck team!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 05:49:16 AM
Ok teams - Brant has fixed my access abilities to the various forums including the public and private forums for our game.

Here's my suggestion for how play should proceed:

NEW TURNS
1. I'll update the DEFCON status and tidy up the game board and post a screenshot. 
2. I will then deal the hands and present those hands to each team in their PRIVATE FORUM.  Play will then proceed:

HEADLINE PHASE
1. During the Headline Phase where a card needs to be selected from your hand for play, noodle on it here in your private forum and once you have reached a decision, announce the card that you wish to play HERE IN YOUR PRIVATE FORUM. 
2. I will reveal your teams card as well as them other guys' card SIMULTANEOUSLY on the PUBLIC forum. 
3. Per the rules, the card played with the highest OP value will have its event played first.  In the event of a tie, the USA team plays first. 
4. After the cards are revealed, if it is your HEADLINE PHASE, hold your private meetings to discuss the strategy for playing the EVENT on that card and then present your option to the PUBLIC forum.  I will then update the game board and post the results to the PUBLIC forum.

ACTION ROUNDS
1. Same thing basically, except that the USSR goes first in the ACTION ROUNDS, so if it is your teams turn, decide upon your next card play and how it will be played (OPS or for the EVENT) and then go ahead and present it to the PUBLIC FORUM along with your action(s). 
2. I will update the board after each team plays their ACTION ROUND card.

DIE ROLLS
1. I'm going to research some online die rollers that will log the rolls and let everyone see what is rolled for fairness sake.  For simplicity sake, I could just roll it in the VASSAL module and then reveal what was rolled.  Either works for me and we can discuss the idea in the TWILIGHT STRUGGLE general discussion area (NOT THE PUBLIC FORUM).

2. If you're attempting a COUP or playing on the SPACE RACE track or attempting a REALIGNMENT; all items that require a die roll, post your requested action and I'll make the roll and then present that die roll result and will update the game board and present those results in the PUBLIC FORUM.

That's as far as I've thought it out so far (I think).  I'm open for suggestions! 

My idea is to make this "flavor rich", meaning heavy Soviet and USA history intertwined with the card play during the game.  I'll post random images related to the the card played (perhaps) and what ever other ideas that I/we come up with.

I am NEUTRAL.  I'm not going to make suggestions on game play, give tips or anything that will provide any type of edge to one team or the other.  I've posted links to the rulebook and have uploaded some play-aids and a link has been provided to http://twilightstrategy.com/new-to-twilight-struggle/ which has good tips and hints on play/play strategy. 

Note that the DISCARD PILE is open for inspection at any time per the rules.  If you need to inspect the DISCARD PILE, post a note in your PRIVATE FORUM and I will figure out a way to give a listing of cards that are in the DISCARD PILE.  I'm sure that there is a card manifest on BGG and I will most likely use that. 

Questions or suggestions - just let me know.  Post a note in the PUBLIC, PRIVATE forum.  I think for fairness sake, I should not receive nor answer any PM's related to the game as those Q&A's should be viewable by all.

Good luck team!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 05:50:22 AM
This note was posted to both teams in there PRIVATE forum area.  I'll post them here for those outside of the game that are following along:

Ok teams - Brant has fixed my access abilities to the various forums including the public and private forums for our game.

Here's my suggestion for how play should proceed:

NEW TURNS
1. I'll update the DEFCON status and tidy up the game board and post a screenshot. 
2. I will then deal the hands and present those hands to each team in their PRIVATE FORUM.  Play will then proceed:

HEADLINE PHASE
1. During the Headline Phase where a card needs to be selected from your hand for play, noodle on it here in your private forum and once you have reached a decision, announce the card that you wish to play HERE IN YOUR PRIVATE FORUM. 
2. I will reveal your teams card as well as them other guys' card SIMULTANEOUSLY on the PUBLIC forum. 
3. Per the rules, the card played with the highest OP value will have its event played first.  In the event of a tie, the USA team plays first. 
4. After the cards are revealed, if it is your HEADLINE PHASE, hold your private meetings to discuss the strategy for playing the EVENT on that card and then present your option to the PUBLIC forum.  I will then update the game board and post the results to the PUBLIC forum.

ACTION ROUNDS
1. Same thing basically, except that the USSR goes first in the ACTION ROUNDS, so if it is your teams turn, decide upon your next card play and how it will be played (OPS or for the EVENT) and then go ahead and present it to the PUBLIC FORUM along with your action(s). 
2. I will update the board after each team plays their ACTION ROUND card.

DIE ROLLS
1. I'm going to research some online die rollers that will log the rolls and let everyone see what is rolled for fairness sake.  For simplicity sake, I could just roll it in the VASSAL module and then reveal what was rolled.  Either works for me and we can discuss the idea in the TWILIGHT STRUGGLE general discussion area (NOT THE PUBLIC FORUM).

2. If you're attempting a COUP or playing on the SPACE RACE track or attempting a REALIGNMENT; all items that require a die roll, post your requested action and I'll make the roll and then present that die roll result and will update the game board and present those results in the PUBLIC FORUM.

That's as far as I've thought it out so far (I think).  I'm open for suggestions! 

My idea is to make this "flavor rich", meaning heavy Soviet and USA history intertwined with the card play during the game.  I'll post random images related to the the card played (perhaps) and what ever other ideas that I/we come up with.

I am NEUTRAL.  I'm not going to make suggestions on game play, give tips or anything that will provide any type of edge to one team or the other.  I've posted links to the rulebook and have uploaded some play-aids and a link has been provided to http://twilightstrategy.com/new-to-twilight-struggle/ which has good tips and hints on play/play strategy. 

Note that the DISCARD PILE is open for inspection at any time per the rules.  If you need to inspect the DISCARD PILE, post a note in your PRIVATE FORUM and I will figure out a way to give a listing of cards that are in the DISCARD PILE.  I'm sure that there is a card manifest on BGG and I will most likely use that. 

Questions or suggestions - just let me know.  Post a note in the PUBLIC, PRIVATE forum.  I think for fairness sake, I should not receive nor answer any PM's related to the game as those Q&A's should be viewable by all.

Good luck team!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on November 27, 2013, 06:05:44 AM
Gary, for die rolls I'd be happy with you just rolling a die or using whatever method you like and is easiest.. Since yer neutral I think we can trust you.
Thanks again for doing all this. Should be fun.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 27, 2013, 06:30:32 AM
+1. If you just want to roll a die/dice yourself, GJK, I have no problem with that. Seems it might be more work to roll in some program, take a screenshot, then post it, rather than just rolling it yourself and posting what the results are.

I think we're going to post our turn info (in our thread, of course) by creating a new topic for each turn. That way, you can easily find each one, and we can find our own debates/discussions as well. Might be an easy way, too, to keep track of everything should it become a front-page AAR, but it seems you guys have done this kind of thing before. In any case, unless someone we haven't heard from yet has a better idea, that's what we're going to do.

And to keep you from having to check and re-check each forum thread to see if we've posted turns, you want us to message you to let you know "OK, ready, Turn 3 thread move" or something like that?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 06:44:58 AM
Thanks guys.  For the die rolls, I will use the VASSAL module and first write a message saying what the roll is for and then make that roll and I'll then post a small screenshot of that result.  Easy enough.

Banzai_cat: I was thinking that making sub-forums in your private area for each turn (10 turns - though it could be less) would be a good idea so we're on the same page there.

When I get home later, I'll post the initial board set up and then generate the hands.  By all means, your teams take as long as you need - wait until everyone is up to speed on the rules so that everyone can participate with (educated) decisions.

By the way - the version that I suggest that we play is the DELUXE TS version WITH Optional Cards (GMT added 3 or 5 new cards to balance things out a bit) without using the Chinese Civil War Variant.

And my apologies but the link to the rules that I posted was for the 2nd edition of the game (the version that I have a physical copy of).  The link for the Deluxe Rules are here:  http://www.gmtgames.com/nnts/TSRules-2009.pdf

BUT NO WORRIES! The rules are very nearly identical.  The Deluxe Version adds some clarification and the optional Chinese Civil War variant which we won't be using anyways.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 27, 2013, 06:53:17 AM
As an FYI to all involved, I'm on today as I am working from home, but once the workday ends the wife insists that all technology devices be shut off for two days. I have family coming in anyway so this would be a good way to actually pay attention to them (lol). I probably won't be back on (after this afternoon) until Saturday...but I'll try to peek in on my phone as often as I can.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 06:54:18 AM
That's cool - should give everyone some time to get up to speed on the rules.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: Ubercat on November 27, 2013, 07:49:51 AM
I was also locked out (of everything but Religion and Politics) but I'm back in now.
Title: Re: Twilight Struggle - Coop Game Public Forum
Post by: bayonetbrant on November 27, 2013, 07:51:25 AM
sorry guys - I f'ed it up.  I'm going to talk w/ LB today about making sure everyone's seeing what they're supposed to be seeing, and that we didn't accidentally take away Lingerie Channel access to anyone who wanted it...
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on November 27, 2013, 10:26:58 AM
thats perfect for me - i can catch up on the rules and get ready - looking forward to this very much
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on November 27, 2013, 10:27:55 AM
so, this is our team forum?

awesome
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 27, 2013, 10:28:16 AM
The glorious people of the Soviet Union would accept your surrender now, but it wouldn't be fun to do it that way. Besides, most of them are waiting in line for a roll of toilet paper right now anyway and don't have the time.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on November 27, 2013, 10:32:12 AM
theres just too much imperial awesomeness in the triumverate of Mr Wing, Sir Bob and I
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 27, 2013, 10:34:51 AM
"Imperial awesomeness" shall rot your infrastructures away as capitalist lackey greed hoards money instead of putting it into glorious new tractor factories or dachas for Party elite.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on November 27, 2013, 10:44:28 AM
Maybe you should change your name to "Bolshie Cat" for the duration of this game.  :D
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 27, 2013, 10:47:05 AM
Is good recommendation, were it not from decadent Western dog with desire to undermine the World Revolution!

 ;D
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on November 27, 2013, 10:47:11 AM
or bolshevik cat
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 11:36:25 AM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/TS_banner.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 27, 2013, 11:52:03 AM
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 11:53:54 AM
Me thinks Commie_Cat is ready for war!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on November 27, 2013, 12:16:00 PM
I'll be taking the time to have a quick read of the rules as well - this is all completely new to me, and I'm an old codger so that my perfect excuse for any screw-ups I make  ;)
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on November 27, 2013, 12:16:39 PM
'ello chaps.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 27, 2013, 12:18:34 PM
Bully for you, sir. ;D
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on November 27, 2013, 12:22:18 PM
now that we're all here - how much experience do we have?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on November 27, 2013, 12:29:56 PM
now that we're all here - how much experience do we have?

In terms of the game - non........well, for me anyway.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on November 27, 2013, 12:35:49 PM
were proud defenders of the mushy peas!!!

who needs experience
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 03:03:19 PM
Gentlemen....er, Comrades, here is your starting hand:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Card_Turn1_Soviet.jpg)(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Card_Turn1_Soviet562345.jpg)

NOTE: I will be posting an image of the game board "At Start" in the PUBLIC FORUM after I post this.  The USSR has the mandatory influence markers placed in accordance with the rules already.  YOU HAVE AN ADDITIONAL SIX (6) INFLUENCE MARKERS (points) that you can place at your discretion ANYWHERE IN EASTERN EUROPE.  So the decisions that you must now make is which card in your hand will you be playing as your HEADLINE card, and where will you place the six Influence Markers (where and in what value for a total of six).

Note also that you have the "CHINA" card in your possession to begin the game.  It is "face up" as indicated here.

Good luck comrades!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 03:07:49 PM
Gentlemen, the following is your initial hand for the game (turn 1):

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Card_Turn1_USA.jpg)(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Card_Turn1_USA_234234.jpg)

NOTE: I will be posting an image of the game board "At Start".  Your basic set up is done in accordance with the rules except that you have SEVEN (7) INFLUENCE MARKERS (points total) that can be placed anywhere in Western Europe at your discretion.  So the decisions before you at this time are 1) which card will you be playing as your HEADLINE PHASE card and 2) where and in what values will you be placing the 7 additional influence markers in Western Europe.

Note that the USSR has the "China Card" in its possession to start the game (it is face up - ready to be played as they choose).

Good luck gentlemen!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on November 27, 2013, 03:11:07 PM
What do we think then team? NORAD?

And it seems we need to place our Influence markers.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 03:13:27 PM
It is 1945.  Nazi Germany has been defeated.  Japan has surrendered thus ending the nightmare that was the 2nd World War.  Now, a new Twilight Struggle begins....

Both teams have been given their initial card hands.  The USSR has the "China Card" (face up) as well as 8 additional cards. The US team has 8 cards as well.

This is the map "At Start":

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Game_At_Start.jpg)

A larger version can be viewed here: http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Game_At_Start_Large.jpg (http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Game_At_Start_Large.jpg)

As well as choosing a card to be selected as their "HEADLINE PHASE" card, each team has a number of INFLUENCE MARKERS that need to be placed prior to the beginning of play.  The USSR has 6 IP's that can be placed anywhere in EASTERN EUROPE and the US has 7 IP's that can be placed anywhere in WESTERN EUROPE.  I will post the results of their decisions once both teams have made their choices.

Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on November 27, 2013, 04:50:21 PM
now that we're all here - how much experience do we have?

I've experienced a great many things. This game, however, is not one of them.  :D

I plan on reading up on the rules tomorrow (a little bit) and friday a bit more.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on November 27, 2013, 06:09:06 PM
3 amateurs.... we're going to rock this with unconventional weirdness!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 10:37:24 PM
One BIG tip that I will pass along freely to both teams:  read the text of all of your cards very carefully.  Most have more than one condition that must be met in order for that card to work.  Also, keep in mind that if you play a card for the OPs value and that card has an event that is solely for your opponents side (red star for USSR, white star for USA), that event will automatically trigger after you've played the card for the OPs.  This game is about hand management.  Bad stuff is going to happen to your side; it's managing when it happens and hopefully having the ability to minimize or neutralize the effects rapidly that will take a side to victory.  Also, read about the "Space Race" rules- it is the one way that you can dump a card that has a negative effect on your side but note also, the card will be reshuffled in to the deck so it will come up again at some point.  Is it better to let it happen now or later?  Those are the decisions that you will be facing.

Big government signing out for now.  Happy Thanksgiving to everyone - we shall have a day of peace tomorrow!  :)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 27, 2013, 10:43:05 PM
Thanks again for handling the logistics of this, sir. I'm about to sign off for the night and will be back Friday night, more than likely. Happy thanksgiving, even to the capitalist drones out there!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on November 27, 2013, 10:59:05 PM
No thanks needed, I'm going to enjoy this as much as you guys are.  I'm looking forward to getting in to the meat of this one! 
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Ubercat on November 28, 2013, 07:37:37 AM
Comrades, we have to be cautious about what we headline until we know that Defectors has been played. I suggest playing Olympic games as our headline. If Defectors isn't played to cancel it, we should get 2 VP or 4 Ops to play with. If we get 4 Ops, I further recommend that we use them to coup Iran, which makes it harder for the other guys to get into Asia among other things. Or we could just use them to grab influence in Asia since we're holding the scoring card.

I think that Iran is the way to go, though, because the ME scoring card is out there and someone will likely have to play it by turn 3. We may as well get a start in grabbing up the ME. I've generally gotten a lot of VP's out of the ME as the Soviets so it's probably a good bet.

Blockade will probably be better used later in the turn after the other team has hopefully used their higher Ops cards, though that could backfire if they're holding one of ours in hopes of somehow getting rid of it. Playing Blockade earlier wouldn't guard against that, though, so a later play is probably good.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Ubercat on November 29, 2013, 06:31:32 PM
Of course we need to place our 6 influence in E. Europe first. My suggestion there is to first nail down E. Germany and Poland. 1 additional in E. Germany and 4 in Poland will put them both very solidly in our camp at 4 each.

If we put our last point in Yugoslavia, that will give us access to Italy. Either they let us grab Italy later in the turn or they go after it themselves. If they grab it, it may be that our threat forced them to do so, which could mean that we sidetracked them from whatever else they might have had planned. It's always nice to mess with the enemies plans!
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Barthheart on November 30, 2013, 05:57:17 AM
I agree with Comrade Ubercat about sponsoring the Olympics. This will be a great show case for the USSR's greatest athletes and our system of training.

Can we get away with flooding Asia with our advisors in this round? We have several plays that should let us get up to Control. If we can gain a large amount of points early it might un-nerve the US and make their future efforts erratic.

I also agree that our agents should attempt a coup in Iran. The middle East will become an important battle ground for our ideology and it's best to get a head start.

Bringing East Germany and Poland more securely into the fold is a good plan and I agree with the faint towards Italy. Lets see how stable the foreign policy of the US is.

Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on November 30, 2013, 04:53:31 PM
NORAD sounds good. We need to control Canada, no? Only 2 IP and we need 4 total.

EDIT: What do we want to do about placing our 7 IPs? Do we want to line 'em up along the Pink Curtain or put 4 on Bonn and 2 on Ottawa so All Canada's Pootine are belong to us? That would leave 1 extra IP.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on November 30, 2013, 05:00:12 PM
NORAD sounds good. Do we already control Canada at the start?

I think so, although I have not had time to really study the map, which I hope to do on Sunday.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on November 30, 2013, 05:06:34 PM
See my edit above.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 01, 2013, 02:44:51 AM
Norad does seem to make sense.... I'm almost through the rules I was just going to watch those first few steps videos to see what the best ips were
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 01, 2013, 04:34:45 AM
See my edit above.

I'll have to check, but I think we have to place them in Europe? If so, then maybe at least one in Paris. You know that the French have often had commie leanings, especially post war and well into the '50's
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 01, 2013, 05:34:19 AM
You are correct, Bob. I just checked and it does have to be Western Europe. That means that the NORAD card won't work until we have 2 more points in Canada. Perhaps we should go with Red Scare/Purge? If Team Pink tries an operation afterwards they lose a point. For setup we can drop those 2 points on Frogland as well as the 4 on the Krauts and I'm inclined to drop the last point on Turkey. Dunno why but seems like it would block Syria from getting into mischief too easily.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 01, 2013, 05:51:21 AM
You are correct, Bob. I just checked and it does have to be Western Europe. That means that the NORAD card won't work until we have 2 more points in Canada. Perhaps we should go with Red Scare/Purge? If Team Pink tries an operation afterwards they lose a point. For setup we can drop those 2 points on Frogland as well as the 4 on the Krauts and I'm inclined to drop the last point on Turkey. Dunno why but seems like it would block Syria from getting into mischief too easily.

Sounds like a plan - I like the Turkey idea, having influence in that area may well be of benefit. Unfortunately, with non of us having any experience of how the game plays, we have no idea what effect these actions will have on how the game play out. Suck it and, I guess. How about the 'East European Unrest' card?

I doubt that Geek will be able to have any input as I think he said he was working until tomorrow. Plus he and Huw have been on to me to buy 'Contagion' in the Steam sale with a view to some co-op play (not that I need much pushing, as it looks like it could be fun)- argh! not enough time to do everything.

Update - just had a text from geek to say that due to work, he won't have much time to play anything during next week. We really need his input so we have someone to blame if things go pear-shaped :-)
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 01, 2013, 06:04:28 AM
Heh.
I'm still trying to figure out the rules- the 'events' v. 'operations' thing has me a bit flummoxed. If we play a card as an event we don't get the points and if we play the card as an operation we do get 'em? It that it?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 01, 2013, 06:08:10 AM
Heh.
I'm still trying to figure out the rules- the 'events' v. 'operations' thing has me a bit flummoxed. If we play a card as an event we don't get the points and if we play the card as an operation we do get 'em? It that it?

I admit I'm a bit confused by that as well. I'm more comfortable with 'proper' wargames myself. Not sure if I'm a devious enough bastard for this type of thing (or maybe, not clever enough).

The whole sequence and interaction of how the games plays has me scratching my head.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 01, 2013, 06:26:31 AM
It's good I'm here! Just reading as much as I can
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 01, 2013, 06:38:27 AM
LOL - thought you were at work!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 01, 2013, 07:00:46 AM
Guys - should I set up a separate forum/thread for Rules questions that both teams can access and participate in?  In that thread, we could discuss the rules and have the judges "ruling" on the rules.  Might be a good idea since this game is new to everyone.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 01, 2013, 07:05:40 AM
I have a question about the game:  The difference between 'events' and 'operations'.

Am I correct in assuming that it's as follows: If one plays a card as an operation then one gets the points to use but must abide by the event it triggers (good or bad)
or
one can play the event directly at the time of one's choosing for maximum effect but forgoing earning the points?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 01, 2013, 07:09:28 AM
Also, is there a full list of all cards with their content (events, points, etc) available for perusal? After all, if one owned the physical game then one could have familiarize one's self with them ahead of time.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 01, 2013, 07:15:51 AM
A great idea Gary. I've already asked on the main thread so maybe Brant can move my posts into the new FAQ one.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 01, 2013, 07:18:32 AM
I have a question about the game:  The difference between 'events' and 'operations'.

Am I correct in assuming that it's as follows: If one plays a card as an operation then one gets the points to use but must abide by the event it triggers (good or bad)
or
one can play the event directly at the time of one's choosing for maximum effect but forgoing earning the points?

Close.  During the Headline Phase (phase you are choosing a card for now), only the EVENT will be played so it would be wise to choose a card that has a star that matches your team (white=USA, red=USSR) or at least a half-white/half-red star meaning that the event could favor either site.

During the Action Rounds, you choose a card to EITHER play for the OP points OR to play as the Event.  If you take the OPS points, you forgo the event and if you take the Event, you forgo the OPs points.  Some important notes:

1. If you play a card for the OPs points AND YET the Event has a star for the OTHER Team, that EVENT will still trigger AFTER you've played your OPs points.  Note that the "star" on the card has to be a solid color for the other side in order for that EVENT to trigger, not the "half-white/half-red". That is crucial as very likely, you will have a card or cards that you don't want the EVENTs to trigger, yet they will anyway after you've played them for OPs. 

2. The only way to (temporarily) avoid this is to dump the card on the SPACE RACE track.  Note, there are limits as to how many times you can do that in a turn (once per turn initially).  This is a temporary fix because the card will be shuffled back in to the deck at some point so MOST Events do eventually trigger (some times cards can be permanently removed from play without having the Event played).

3. If a card is played for OPs and the Event on it is also YOUR teams Event, that Event does NOT trigger (you played it for OPs) so that card will go in to the discard pile and will be reshuffled in to the deck eventually.

4. If the card has an asterisk (*) on it (it will also have red text at the bottom) indicating that the card is to be removed if the Event has been played, then as it says - the card will not go in to the discard pile but will be permanently removed from play.

I think that covers all of the possible situations for the cards.  Again, follow very closely what the Events on the cards say as many times pre-existing conditions must be met in order for the Event to work.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 01, 2013, 07:19:51 AM
Also, is there a full list of all cards with their content (events, points, etc) available for perusal? After all, if one owned the physical game then one could have familiarize one's self with them ahead of time.

Yes:  http://twilightstrategy.com/card-list/
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 01, 2013, 07:29:43 AM
A note about the DEFCON level.

This one can confuse some players.  In overview, DEFCON 5 means the world is a peaceful, happy little place.  DEFCON 2 means we are about to get in to each others $h*t.  DEFCON 1 and it's Game Over: "would you like to play a game of Chess instead professor?".

The DEFCON level will decrease under the following circumstances:

1. Any COUP attempt in a Battleground Country degrades the DEFCON level by one.  A "Battleground Country" is any country that has its title in white letters on a purple background.  For example, Iran is a battleground country where as the Gulf States are not.  The COUP attempt need not be successful; the DEFCON level will drop because of YOUR actions.  :)

2. A card that is played for the EVENT may lower the DEFCON level.  IMPORTANT NOTE (and I've lost the game because of this before): IF your team is the PHASING PLAYER team, meaning it's your ACTION ROUND and the event triggered lowers the DEFCON to "1", YOU PHASING PLAYER TEAM loses the game.  That could mean, that if you play the card for the OPs, yet the event on it is for the other side and that event triggers and it lowers the DEFCON to "1", YOU lose the game, not the team that event was played for.  When it is your ACTION ROUND, you must be very aware of what the DEFCON level is if there is a possibility of it lowering to a "1" due to the cards in your hand that you are contemplating on playing.  DEFCON level 2 is very edgy!

3. At the beginning of each TURN, the DEFCON level is INCREASED (towards peace) one level so that gives everyone some breathing room.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 01, 2013, 07:36:41 AM
I have come back from glorious weekend at Black Sea dacha with glorious "Babes of the Communist Party" calendar for 2014. It is amazing what chicks do to get into Communist calendar. And most even had all their teeth!

In any case I am in agreement. The Olympics is the most beneficial thing we can do right now. If the USA decides to boycott, we need to decide what to do with those 4 OPS points.I think we can wait to see what the reaction is, first.

As for Influence Points, we should get a solid foundation in Eastern Europe and I had wanted us to pull a coup off in Iran as well.

Excellent starting point for the Communist party! I believe we are in agreement unless either comrade has had a revelation since communicating these requests?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 01, 2013, 07:41:33 AM
A note about REQUIRED MILITARY OPERATIONS:

Section 8.2 of the rules.  By the end of a turn (a turn is divided in to several Action Rounds), each side must of performed a number of Military Operations EQUAL TO (or greater) than the current DEFCON level as it is at the end of the turn or else the OTHER SIDE will GAIN VP's equal to the number of MilOps that you failed to play.  So if DEFCON is at "4" and you only conducted 2 MilOps, the OTHER SIDE will have the VP track shifted 2 points towards their end (a gain for them). 

Military Operations are:

1. A coup attempt.  It does NOT have to be in a battleground country (though that will also lower the DEFCON level).  The MilOps points gained for the coup attempt will equal the OPs points of the card that you use for the coup attempt.

2. A "War Card".  If the Event is played and it is a "War" card (Arab-Israeli War, Korean War, Indo-Pakistani War - any card that says it is a "War", that will gain MilOps points for whomever played the event.  SO, I'll copy and paste the example from the rules since it states it very concisely:

EXAMPLE: The US player uses the ‘Arab-Israeli War’ card for Operations points, thereby also triggering the War Event (as it is associated with the Soviet Union player - has a "red star" on the card). In addition to the Event taking place as directed on the card, the USSR player moves his Military Operations marker two spaces on the Military Operations track.

So, if you're getting beat up in the VP total, pay close attention to the number of Military Operations that you are playing and make sure that you hit your number each turn!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 01, 2013, 07:44:11 AM
A great idea Gary. I've already asked on the main thread so maybe Brant can move my posts into the new FAQ one.

I've just replied there instead of starting another thread - I think that I've covered the few rules that confuse new players.  If it gets to be a longer laundry list of Q&A's, then I'll consolidate them all to a new thread.  So, check back in the main area for some notes on other rules that I just posted.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 01, 2013, 09:42:33 AM
From what I've read and understood our ip set up is sound, I like Turkey

Eastern Europe card looks good too for opening move
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 01, 2013, 09:49:21 AM
Geek, are you good with Redscare/Purge card to open?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 01, 2013, 10:30:23 AM
Geek, are you good with Redscare/Purge card to open?

Definitely
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Barthheart on December 01, 2013, 10:33:14 AM
Da, looks good to me.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 01, 2013, 10:54:19 AM
Agreed.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: GJK on December 01, 2013, 11:14:22 AM
Just a reminder you Commies, but we need to get the rest of your "At Start" Influence markers placed before we can begin.  The USSR has 6 IP's that can be placed anywhere in EASTERN EUROPE. 

The All-Seeing Eye, out.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 01, 2013, 11:16:03 AM
Just a reminder for you Capitalist Dogs, but we need to get the rest of your "At Start" Influence markers placed before we can begin.  The U.S. has 7 IP's that can be placed anywhere in WESTERN EUROPE.

The All-Seeing Eye, out.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 01, 2013, 11:37:26 AM
^lol....Thanks Gary.

That rules Turkey out then gents.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 01, 2013, 11:46:42 AM
Turkey shows dark purple just like the Western European countries so it looks to be part of WE through Greece and Italy.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 01, 2013, 11:49:56 AM
Turkey shows dark purple just like the Western European countries so it looks to be part of WE through Greece and Italy.

I'm new but I agree all the start up strategies I've read include Turkey as an option

By the way chaps all those same strategies ignore France - apparently there are some quite nasty anti France cards
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 01, 2013, 12:40:24 PM
Interesting. Ignore the Frogs and court the Turks then.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 01, 2013, 02:20:27 PM
Thanks, GJK.

I'm not really all that up on what we should do. But, here is my suggestion for placement of these 6 IPs as follows:

1 - Yugoslavia

3 - Poland

1 - Taiwan

1 - Vietnam

If any of my comrades have other suggestions, please do so.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: GJK on December 01, 2013, 02:38:34 PM
Remember, you have 6 IP's that can only go in to EASTERN EUROPE at this time (this is part of the initial set up).  Eastern Europe are the light purple (lilac?) colored countries on the map.  You can place 1 or more IP's in any of those countries and you can place them in countries that are a combo West/East Europe (Austria for example). Tawain, Vietnam are part of the yellow "Asia" group so placing IP's there for the initial set up wouldn't be allowed.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 01, 2013, 02:42:06 PM
Dammit, I knew that...my bad.

What do my comrades recommend? We need to secure East Germany and Poland, and get a foothold in Yugoslavia for glorious revolution-spreading to Italy.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Barthheart on December 01, 2013, 04:49:32 PM
1  to East Germany
4 to Poland
1 to Yugoslavia for a shot at Italy later.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Ubercat on December 01, 2013, 06:53:06 PM
Great. It sounds like we're agreed.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 01, 2013, 07:00:33 PM
Is agreed, then.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: GJK on December 01, 2013, 08:07:29 PM
Good deal - I will update the main board right now to reflect your set up.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 01, 2013, 08:19:32 PM
Game update:  The USSR has placed their remaining 6 IP's in EASTERN EUROPE:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Game_At_Start_Europe.jpg)

The complete and updated map can be seen here:  http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Game_At_Start_Large_Updated.jpg (http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Game_At_Start_Large_Updated.jpg)

Waiting on the US set up of 7 IP's in WESTERN EUROPE and then we will need your opening HEADLINE PHASE cards gentlemen.  The stand-off will then be underway!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 01, 2013, 08:33:13 PM
Looks like we're up Gents. Shall we place our bets?

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=8401.msg211002#msg211002
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 02, 2013, 02:19:19 AM
Seen this everywhere -

The standard opening setup for the US is 4 West Germany, 3 Italy.  As USA, you take the two safest battlegrounds in Western Europe, and the overcontrol of Italy guards against a Socialist Governments headline and/or T1 Italy coup.

Italy. It is the only battleground country in Europe that is seriously threatened by coups. Even so, it often makes sense for the US player to take control of this country, and most US players will do so with their initial setup. First, Italy gives the Americans a second battleground in Europe, and second, Italy blocks access to France via Southern Europe- something very important in the Early War. Usually, if the USSR can manage to nab France, it's theirs for the rest of the game. A wise choice for influence in most circumstances.

Unlike the USSR, the US player has the chance to react to his opponent's placement. Also unlike the USSR, the US player has to face the reality that his opponent will get to play the first action of the turn, which will likely be a coup in either Italy or Iran. A successful coup in either country is bad news for the US, but especially so in Italy becuase it allows the USSR the chance at Domination in Europe, where the US starts with an initial advantage in board position.

Given that the US player's board position is tenuous across the entirety of the board at the beginning of the game, as the US it is my top priority to secure future Dominance of Europe, with the potential for Control as the game progresses (though that would be very unlikely and it's important not to over-commit in Europe).

As far as US placement in Europe goes, there are generally three principles.

1) Make sure you have an equal or greater number of battleground countries than the Soviets.
2) Try to block access to any battleground countries you do not control (typically France).
3) Be aware of the cards that wreck havoc on the US's European position (DE GAULLE, BLOCKADE, and to a lesser extent SUEZ CRISIS), and prepare for their arrival.

1) STANDARD, CONSERVATIVE: 4 WGER, 3 ITA.

In most cases this is the best US setup strategy- it takes control of West Germany and Italy, giving the US 2 battlegrounds to protect against an early Europe Scoring, and it leaves both countries somewhat protected (WGER vulnurable to BLOCKADE, ITA vulnurable to coups). As the USSR player, against this setup, I will typically go ahead and coup Iran rather than risk a bad roll against Italy, leaving me out of position in both Europe and the "Iron Triangle" (Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan) whereas I am guaranteed, with a 4 ops card, to at least knock the US out of Iran with an Iranian coup. As the US, any time the USSR decides to coup Iran instead of Italy with its first action, I jump for joy- chances are that Italy will remain aligned with the US for the remainder of the game (NATO protects against BRUSH WAR). Obviously, a SOCIALIST GOVERNMENTS headline followed by a first-AR coup in Italy is nothing short of disastrous for this setup... then again, when is SOCIALIST GOVERNMENTS ever good for the US player? More seriously, though, the strategy is vulnurable to a successful BLOCKADE (no countries adjacent to WGER with influence), and is also vulnurable to realignments.




what this actually means im still to understand - but it deffo looks like 4 WG and 3 Itay is the best move

just sayin'
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 02, 2013, 07:05:49 AM
Come on Imperialist American Dogs! Where's your tiny little army going to hide?

Comrade Barthheartovich,
General Secretary of the Red Army.
1 Red Square, Moscow
USSR
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 02, 2013, 07:29:40 AM
we're planning!!!!

that and imperial dog 1 - Staggerwing is on the other side of the sea and in bed, dog 2 - Bob is old and confused and has forgotten, and dog 3 - me, i have a job where i can plan all day and scheme your downfall - im currently reading Captain Zogs guide to winning Twilight on just the first move (tm) - and then you may as well put your furry hat away
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 02, 2013, 07:32:59 AM
We can always reconvene the Malta/Yalta Conference and rehash all of this out if need be.  :D
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 02, 2013, 07:37:00 AM
Ah but we have an inside man.... look at GJK's new title.. he's one of US! Bwhahahahahahahah! You have no chance....  8)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 02, 2013, 07:52:29 AM
I think that move should drop the DEFCON to level 2!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 02, 2013, 08:15:50 AM
Wasn't me... it was our friend and comrade Brant back when he setup this whole endeavor.... 8)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 02, 2013, 08:25:08 AM
its a fix - i KNEW it!!!

red star worshipping, furry hat wearing, commie motherf.............., grumble grumble grumble
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bayonetbrant on December 02, 2013, 10:51:21 AM
I'll try to unfuggle it later.  Next time we're just going to use regular forums and make y'all pinkie swear not to read each other's stuff.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 02, 2013, 10:53:27 AM
I'll try to unfuggle it later.  Next time we're just going to use regular forums and make y'all pinkie swear not to read each other's stuff.

Nah, it's all good. GJK isn't actually playing so it doesn't matter. I like the private threads.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on December 02, 2013, 12:00:05 PM
we're planning!!!!

that and imperial dog 1 - Staggerwing is on the other side of the sea and in bed, dog 2 - Bob is old and confused and has forgotten, and dog 3 - me, i have a job where i can plan all day and scheme your downfall - im currently reading Captain Zogs guide to winning Twilight on just the first move (tm) - and then you may as well put your furry hat away

Actually, Stagger and I had in-depth discussion about it on Steam last night, and we both agree that we will not make any moves that can't subsequently be blamed on you if they go wrong.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 02, 2013, 12:01:12 PM
Alreet - I'm canny with that, mon.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 02, 2013, 12:04:18 PM
oh i see - well i looked on youtube for the 'nest of scheming bastards' quote from Braveheart but it isnt there!!!

i have posted the wisdom of the masses in our 'private function room' (NOT THAT ONE!!!!)

and will be sipping Irish whilst i read the rules again to understand what i posted!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 02, 2013, 04:03:26 PM
Alreet - I'm canny with that, mon.

shall we propose this to the powers that be then?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 02, 2013, 04:05:50 PM
Aye, OK with me.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 02, 2013, 04:18:40 PM
Guess we just need staggers input.  He may be like Patton planning on the invasion of the USSR in his little HQ over there. Oh Georgy....  :)
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 02, 2013, 04:21:49 PM
lol - bob thinks hes happy with that - i just want to make sure - if thats the case 4 on WG and 3 on Italy sir
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 02, 2013, 04:42:51 PM
Sorry, at work all day…

lol - bob thinks hes happy with that - i just want to make sure - if thats the case 4 on WG and 3 on Italy sir

Let's go with WarPlan Geek: 4 orders of Sauerkraut and 3 of Spagetti. Are we having Redscare/Purge for dessert or do we get to see what the Pink Pussycats are having before ordering?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 02, 2013, 04:53:50 PM
Sorry, at work all day…

lol - bob thinks hes happy with that - i just want to make sure - if thats the case 4 on WG and 3 on Italy sir

Let's go with WarPlan Geek: 4 orders of Sauerkraut and 3 of Spagetti. Are we having Redscare/Purge for dessert or do we get to see what the Pink Pussycats are having before ordering?

thats a good point - are the cards played simultaneously or do we get to counter?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 02, 2013, 04:57:23 PM
Simultaneously. Once both teams have made their picks in the private forums, I'll reveal them both at the same time in the public forum.

I'll update the map with your setup a little bit later tonight.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 02, 2013, 05:02:29 PM
What comes first, Actions or Operations? or can they be intermingled?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 02, 2013, 05:20:10 PM
cool i think we're all agreed on our card and our set up
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 02, 2013, 05:25:40 PM
Then lets start propping up those dominoes!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 02, 2013, 06:17:20 PM
I do believe that the Mighty Voice of freedom shall now ring out!

The Cowboys of Truth, Justice, and the Anglo-American Way* have made the details of their stand against the Tide of Crimson Furballs clear to The Powers that Be!






(*Tex the Geek, English Bob, and Slim Staggerwing)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 02, 2013, 06:35:13 PM
Yeeehaw.... the err 3 horsemen of the apocalypse
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 02, 2013, 07:07:17 PM
Gentlemen, COLD WAR as it stands today in Europe:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Game_At_Start_Europe_final.jpg)

The "BIG PICTURE" (full map) can be seen here: http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Game_At_Start_Final.jpg (http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Game_At_Start_Final.jpg)

The game set up is now complete and the COLD WAR begins to HEAT UP. 

Team USA has made their selection for the HEADLINE EVENT card.  Once I have word that Team USSR has made their final choice, I will ask that those choices be made known IN YOUR PRIVATE forums.  I will then reveal both cards at once here.  The events for the HEADLINE PHASE cards will be completed.  If there are events on your HEADLINE PHASE cards that require your input; please pre-plan those options so that we can have them ready once it is determined who's HEADLINE PHASE card will be played first.  The card that has the higher OPs point will play first.  In the event of a TIE, Team USA will play their HEADLINE PHASE card first.

Let the missiles and all the other $h*t start flying - I'll be ducking under my school desk!
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Ubercat on December 02, 2013, 07:19:34 PM
OK, it looks like the US team has placed their IP's. Are we all agreed on playing Olympic Games as our headline?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 03, 2013, 03:46:15 AM
quick question i cant find in the rules - you can play a card as an event or an operation - why would you do one or the other, whats the advantage to either choice?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 03, 2013, 04:10:24 AM
One gives you points to spend (operation) the other makes something good happen when you want it to (event). The operation will still trigger it's printed event (if it's meant for the other side, in this case red star) so there's that to consider before spending the points.

I think I have that right…  ???
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 03, 2013, 04:17:30 AM
got it - because the player has to perform a certain number of operations - or he loses VPs - so we need to make sure from our deck that were going to play the right number of ops that play to our advantage and use the rest as events?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 03, 2013, 04:21:00 AM
all becoming clearer now!!

are we playing our card as an event or an operation then? and..............

if operation - what do we want to do with the points??

lol - im liking this game already
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Barthheart on December 03, 2013, 04:21:45 AM
Da, let's have the Olympics!
 8)
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 03, 2013, 04:27:08 AM
got it - because the player has to perform a certain number of operations - or he loses VPs - so we need to make sure from our deck that were going to play the right number of ops that play to our advantage and use the rest as events?


Uhhh… Right! I think…  :D

Not sure which operations count toward the military minimum required. I suppose there will be times when it's better to take the penalty than play a remaining opponent-friendly card that could have dire consequences.

all becoming clearer now!!

are we playing our card as an event or an operation then? and..............

if operation - what do we want to do with the points??

lol - im liking this game already

Among other things we can spend points to increase influence in a country, attempt a coup, and a few others that I can't remember because I just got up and have only 1 cup of coffee in me… Now I need to get my kids ready for school. Time for some cat-herding…  ::)
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: GJK on December 03, 2013, 04:27:17 AM
I see that upstream, Banzai_cat had agreed to play Olympics as well so I will note that as your selected card for the HEADLINE EVENT.  I see that Team USA has a response in this morning as well - not sure if they have come to consensus but just in case they decide to Boycott your Olympics, think a bit about what you might do with your 4 OPs.  ;)

Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 03, 2013, 04:31:27 AM
First, real quick: team USSR has made their decision for their HEADLINE PHASE card.  I'm trying to sort through your posts but don't want to make any speculations.  If you guys have reached consensus on a card for the HEADLINE PHASE, could you announce that to me here and I will post those up this morning.  I'll address your questions above in a separate note.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 03, 2013, 04:39:00 AM
Double check the open forum here for posts that directly address your questions:

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=8401.msg210734#msg210734 (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=8401.msg210734#msg210734)

But in real short summary: a card will have a red star, a white star or a red/white star on it.  The color of the star indicates who the event will generally favor.  Reading the text of the event card should reveal that as well.  During the Action Rounds (7 AR's per turn during the "Early War" years), you choose to play a card for the event or for the OPs points.  You won't play a card that has a negative event for you obviously, so you would play it for the OPs points.  However, if it is a red star (in your guys' case) on a card that you play for OPs, then that event will still trigger after you've played your OPs points.  History is going to happen, it just depends on when.  I won't summarize the "Space Race" track, but that is a temporary "out" for you in some cases.

Do note that at the start of each turn, as we are at now, the first play is to select a "HEADLINE PHASE" card.  That card will be played ONLY for its event.  The OPs points are not used unless the event indicates to use them.  So, select a card that has an event that is beneficial to you (white star) at this point.

Also, OPs points on a card do NOT correlate to Military Operations.  Again, my summaries at that link above go over what you need to do to hit your Military Operations limits.  - EDIT/Correction: Yes, the OPs points on a card DO count towards the Miltiary Ops points garnered but you have to conduct a COUP or play a "War" card to get those points. 

I know that this is probably a wildly different type of game than you may be used to; it's not a "traditional" wargame.  However, after a turn, it will all click and you'll say to yourselves what a really simple game it is yet you have such decisions and play choices to make.  :)
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 03, 2013, 04:45:27 AM
I say Event: Unrest in Eastern Europe or Event: Red Scare/Purge

Either one is fine with me.

None of these are based on any real understanding of the game- just guessing  :D If you guys have a strong feeling about something different I'll support whatever you choose.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Ubercat on December 03, 2013, 04:51:16 AM
I already made my recommendation as a coup of Iran. This will make it harder for them to get into Asia AND boost our position in the ME.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 03, 2013, 05:22:03 AM
I say Event: Unrest in Eastern Europe or Event: Red Scare/Purge

Either one is fine with me.

None of these are based on any real understanding of the game- just guessing  :D If you guys have a strong feeling about something different I'll support whatever you choose.

im agreeing with Eastern European unrest too, and im sure Bob will - lets say that and get going!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 03, 2013, 05:24:46 AM
Agreed.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 03, 2013, 05:28:32 AM
from my very limited understanding it means USSR wont control EG and Poland - what the consequences are i dont know!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 03, 2013, 05:37:41 AM
HEADLINE PHASE: TURN 1

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/headline_phase_turn1.jpg)

USSR to host: Olympic Games

Sport often served as an outlet for the intense competition between the Superpowers, and that competition was never so intense as at the Olympics. The Olympics served as a test bed to see which society could make the greatest strides in human physical achievement. It fit neatly into Communist ideology of “the New Man.” The games frequently reflected the global political situation, as with the terrorist attacks in Munich, and became overt political tools with the US boycott of the Moscow games in 1980, and the Soviet boycott of the LA games in 1984.



USA News reporting on East European Unrest

Captured most visibly by Nagy’s attempt to withdraw Hungary from the Warsaw Pact and Czechoslovakia’s Prague Spring of 1968, members of the Warsaw Pact frequently sought to loosen the reins of Moscow. When taken too far, from the Soviet perspective, the effects could be devastating. Soviet tanks became a universal symbol of Soviet determination to hold on to Eastern Europe, through undisguised oppression if necessary.

Game Play Notes:

The HEADLINE PHASE event for TEAM USA will be played first since it has a higher OPs value.  TEAM USA: You will need to return to your chambers and deliberate on the three (3) Influence Points to be removed from Eastern Europe (one each in three Eastern European countries).

ALSO:
Team USA will need to deliberate to decide if they will be boycotting the Moscow hosted Olympics or if they will send a US Olympic team. 

NEXT UP: Card selections for Action Round 1 of Turn 1 will need to be selected so both sides will need to start deliberating on their next card play.  Keep in mind that the cards for the HEADLINE PHASE will be removed from your hand.  I will update your hands later today.  It's easy to keep track of now obviously, but as the rounds go on there could be some confusion.

This is Paul Harvey saying, good day!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 03, 2013, 05:39:27 AM
The Headline Phase events have been posted for turn 1 folks.
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: GJK on December 03, 2013, 05:39:43 AM
 The Headline Phase events have been posted for turn 1 folks.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 03, 2013, 05:44:37 AM
sneaky russian basts!!!!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 03, 2013, 05:45:10 AM
sat here with a big grin on my face - this is ace - no idea why, just loving it!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 03, 2013, 06:02:01 AM
"Undisguised oppression" has such a harsh sound to it, Future Comrades of the Soviet States of Amerika. We in the Kremlin like to think of it more as, "babysitting ignorant comrades."
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 03, 2013, 06:04:41 AM
if going to DEFCON 1 wasnt a losing move, id launch them em all at ya now!!!
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 03, 2013, 06:07:51 AM
I shall create glorious new thread for glorious Turn 1. Let us discuss all matters Turn One (including activities for each of the six Action Rounds) there.

You'll be able to find it easily, comrades. Take a left at Comrade Stalin's ego - is rather large, so hard to miss, da? - go straight until you reach Comrade Molotov's forehead's guard unit, then go down glorious Hall of Future Imperialist Capitalist Swine Trophy Heads Hallway Memorial until you hear screams of unpatriotic masses next door at KGB headquarters, and make first right. Is by bathroom and People's Water Fountain #51561234aB44.
Title: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 03, 2013, 06:09:50 AM
Might be better to make glorious thread for each Action Round. If Comrade GJK agrees then let's do it that way. Otherwise we can just do one thread per game turn and discuss all Action Rounds within the one thread. I thought it might be easier to discuss each AR in separate threads, though.

GJK, can you post new card hand here, tovarich?

Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: GJK on December 03, 2013, 06:11:26 AM
Roger that.  Will update the hands and post yours here when I get home later.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 03, 2013, 06:12:21 AM
Is typical American warmongering swine who wishes to rain fiery death down on heads of oppressed workers worldwide. Is typical of American wish to do nuclear war when they know glorious Soviet Army would squash them like bug in stand-up fight.

See? SEE? We are glorious peaceloving peoples and we are being bullied by mean, nasty American imperialists. The world shall stand in judgement of you, Future Comrade #52,561,515.

Da, we already have number picked out for your glorious wool jumpsuit, Comrade.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 03, 2013, 06:25:22 AM
Our glorious Olympic Team will defeat scrawny Imperialist American pansies.
Look upon our greatness:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__iUWLJiDfYg/S-T3ZoxUoVI/AAAAAAAAL-M/qogC_hfzFQE/s400/1952+ussr+001.jpg)
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/kGbNlOV5FIU/maxresdefault.jpg)
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8eklobg1K1qbrsdlo1_500.jpg)
(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/XSReTUdODwA/maxresdefault.jpg)

The very model of Red Army.... err... our Soviet Athletic Training Programs.
All your medal belong to us.

Comrade Barthheartovich
General Secretary of Red Army
 
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 03, 2013, 06:28:23 AM
As for minor "disturbances" in our little "partners" I'm sure that our negotiating team will help straighten out any ..... concerns they have.

(http://adst.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/1956-tanks-budapest_56_06.jpg)
(http://31.media.tumblr.com/21b5362d1b1ef929fd028acd711bcc3f/tumblr_mtl77iFUUh1s7e5k5o1_500.jpg)

Comrade Barthheartovich
General Secretary of Red Army
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 03, 2013, 06:38:48 AM
Do not forget, Comrade Barthheartovich, the Glorious East German Women's Olympic Team!

(http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r624/MichaelE6/EGOT.jpg)

Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Barthheart on December 03, 2013, 07:18:19 AM
OK Comrades, if the US boycotts the Olympics what should we do with our 4 OPS?
Coup Iran?
Take South Korea?
Move Afghanistan?
Replace what they remove in their action?

My vote would be for coup Iran.


Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 03, 2013, 07:50:05 AM
How many OPs Points are those babes worth?   :o
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 03, 2013, 07:58:32 AM
(psssttt Brant... can anyone else read this stuff or are we being crazy just fer our own amusement?)
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 03, 2013, 08:31:35 AM
I say a coup in Iran is the way to go.

I was leaning towards "fixing" any Western interference in our Eastern Europe territories, but that would be a reactionary move. We should make moves that require THEM to react to us.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Barthheart on December 03, 2013, 11:02:32 AM
How about our first card play since we go first?

Sneaky option is to dump the CIA card on the Space Race to give them the idea we're confused about what to do next and it gets rid of us having to show our hand and our Asia score card.

Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: Ubercat on December 03, 2013, 01:22:14 PM
go straight until you reach Comrade Molotov's forehead's guard unit

Bwaahahahaha  ;D
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Ubercat on December 03, 2013, 01:24:08 PM
I say a coup in Iran is the way to go.

+1
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 03, 2013, 05:46:47 PM
Our glorious Olympic Team will defeat scrawny Imperialist American pansies.
Look upon our greatness:

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/__iUWLJiDfYg/S-T3ZoxUoVI/AAAAAAAAL-M/qogC_hfzFQE/s400/1952+ussr+001.jpg)


How do ya'll determine who's turn it is to wear the People's Sunglasses? When does the 5-year Plan to make another pair start?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 03, 2013, 05:50:03 PM
Do not forget, Comrade Barthheartovich, the Glorious East German Women's Olympic Team!

(http://i1175.photobucket.com/albums/r624/MichaelE6/EGOT.jpg)

Just two or three more testosterone treatments and they will be able to grow their very own Uncle Joe 'staches.  :D
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 03, 2013, 05:57:20 PM
Lets attend those rigged Olympic games anyway- we might win the roll and if we boycott RedPuss gets 4 points. After that, we can only take a point each away from EG and Poland. The third is just wasted.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: GJK on December 03, 2013, 08:40:22 PM
Commie-Coms, here is your current hand:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Soviet_Hand_Turn_1_AR1_2-8345.jpg)
Title: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 03, 2013, 08:41:49 PM
Team USA: I've opened a new thread for your Turn 1 strategy discussions.  Here is your current card hand:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/US_Hand_Turn_1_AR1_q3425234.jpg)
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 12:56:24 AM
Can't we take one from his other provinces like north Korea?

Agreed on Olympics
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 04, 2013, 04:40:16 AM
I believe the 'Eastern European Unrest' card refers to, uh… Eastern Europe.  :D

Quote
Early or Mid War: Remove 1 USSR Influence from 3 countries in Eastern Europe. Late War: Remove 2 USSR Influence from 3 countries in Eastern Europe.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 05:15:31 AM
I believe the 'Eastern European Unrest' card refers to, uh… Eastern Europe.  :D

Quote
Early or Mid War: Remove 1 USSR Influence from 3 countries in Eastern Europe. Late War: Remove 2 USSR Influence from 3 countries in Eastern Europe.

lmao - good point Stagger!!
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Ubercat on December 04, 2013, 07:44:10 AM
I think our first cardplay should be NATO for Ops. The event won't fire because neither Marshall Plan or Warsaw Pact have been played yet. If we hold off on playing it, we risk the other team playing one of those prerequisites.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 04, 2013, 07:51:17 AM
Good thing we have the CIA card as well...I remember that one, it's a great card for the West.

Blockade is tempting, but it's one of those "smart bomb" cards IMO. I think we should hold off on it.

Containment, De-Stalinization, and Asia Scoring are all no-gos.

I think our only real choice is, as Comrade Ubercat says, NATO for the Ops value.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Barthheart on December 04, 2013, 08:14:32 AM
Oops! I missed that NATO would not fire! Then yes I agree we should use it.

Where to play the OPS? Asia?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Ubercat on December 04, 2013, 09:16:04 AM
Oops! I missed that NATO would not fire! Then yes I agree we should use it.

Where to play the OPS? Asia?

Probably. Or we could get bold and try to coup Italy. Europe scoring is out there somewhere and it's a big one for points.

Another thought: It's a good thing that we nailed down Poland and E. Germany. The enemy headline card will surely be taking 1 Influence from each country. We still have them in our camp though since we gave each 1 extra. We also still have De-Stalinization to play. That card let's us move the IP's anywhere that the US doesn't control. That's ANYWHERE. Problem is, we now can't spare any IP's in Europe and that's our only good source. We could spend our Ops adding IP's in Europe and then play De-Stalinization later to move them to hard to reach places elsewhere in the world.

I'm not sure that it's our best play as it burns an extra action round, but it's a thought. I'm going to fire up Vassal so I can see the map as it  stands. I'll keep it updated to show our game situation and use it as a planning aid.

Edit: Bad move. We need to get Domination of Asia. That's the only scoring card that we KNOW is being played this turn. The other two might still be in the deck so we should focus on what we know.

I say we go ahead and coup Iran and then grab Afghanistan and Pakistan, not necessarily in that order and not necessarily as our first move. We want to keep them guessing as to our intent. If we go all out in Asia right off the bat, they'll know we have Asia Scoring. Let's spend our 4 NATO Ops to grab Pakistan and complete our control of Iraq. They won't know if we're more focused on Asia or the ME. Maybe 2-3 card plays later we'll grab Afghanistan to gain Domination in Asia.

The fact that we grabbed Iraq will strengthen us in the ME plus give us access to Saudi Arabia. If we can grab a non battleground country (like spending 1 IP to take the rest of Syria) we'll also grab Domination in the ME!

Of course all this planning is moot if our coup fails. We need to roll anything but a 1 to gain Influence in Iran. 3 or higher will give us control. If we don't succeed, we can still go there, but it will take an extra card play. :(
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 12:11:20 PM
Lets attend those rigged Olympic games anyway- we might win the roll and if we boycott RedPuss gets 4 points. After that, we can only take a point each away from EG and Poland. The third is just wasted.

I'd go with that  :)
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Barthheart on December 04, 2013, 12:20:11 PM
Yeah. Domination is Asia is what I was aiming for this round.
I like your sneaky way of going abut that:

Iran
Pakistan
Afghanistan

We also have the China card that can be played for 5 Ops in Asia. I know it's early to play that but it would help get domination....

Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 04, 2013, 12:23:12 PM
If everybody is in agreement that Team USA will attend the Olympics (looks like you are), then I will make the rolls tonight and apply those results.

I'll need your list for the 3 Eastern Europe countries that you want to take 1 IP from as per your Headline Phase card and then I will apply that to the map.

After that, the Ruskies will be playing their Action Round card first followed by you guys, so you'll want to start choosing your next card play.  Note that I've started another thread in your private area for Turn 1 chatter, including an image of your current hand as it stands at this moment.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 12:26:53 PM
^Thanks Gary, I'll consult with the other guys.

And thank you for doing all this stuff.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 12:29:46 PM
east germany and poland are definites - he has a point in Yugoslavia too i think we can have
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 12:38:54 PM
Sounds like a plan.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 04, 2013, 12:40:39 PM
I'm in agreement with Comrade Ubercat.

I like the odds for a coup in Iran. We must play to win and bring Bolshevism to these poor downtrodden Islamic children.

Of course, it will be interesting to see what the running-dogs do. If I were them, I'd go for the ME too.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 12:41:21 PM
i jumped to the scoring system of the rule back, when it comes to grabbing point its whos got presence and also dominance in regions - by cutting him down to 3 in each region he doesnt control those regions and it will cost him to get back up there - i think

so i thiiiiiiiink we need to look at putting some feelers out elsewhere with ops points - no coups and alignment battles yet just upping our presence in possibly uncontested areas
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 04, 2013, 12:41:31 PM
Yes, any three of the light purple colored countries (Eastern Europe).

Not a problem Bob, I'm enjoying this as much as you guys (hopefully) are!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 04, 2013, 12:44:39 PM
i jumped to the scoring system of the rule back, when it comes to grabbing point its whos got presence and also dominance in regions - by cutting him down to 3 in each region he doesnt control those regions and it will cost him to get back up there - i think

so i thiiiiiiiink we need to look at putting some feelers out elsewhere with ops points - no coups and alignment battles yet just upping our presence in possibly uncontested areas

Right.  Double check the rules on placing Influence.  You must place it in countries that you already have presence in, or ones that are adjacent to those countries with presence already.  "Adjacency" in this case are countries connected by the solid lines.  So, your influence "grows" outwardly; it doesn't just pop up where ever you want it to.  Exceptions to that would be Events played that state something to the effect of "play ops in any country in such and such region".
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 12:46:43 PM
it doesn't just pop up where ever you want it to.

sorry, that happens if im not concentrating!

hmmmmmm..................... chin scratching
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 12:46:53 PM
OK Geek, but in that case are there any regions where he can pull the same trick on us. Any weak area's that we can improve - I must consult the map again - unfortunately, I still have not had much time to give the rules more than a quick browse, but Gary, your tips are much appreciated, you obviously have a great knowledge of the game.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 04, 2013, 12:47:58 PM
it doesn't just pop up where ever you want it to.

sorry, that happens if im not concentrating!

hmmmmmm..................... chin scratching

You're either still young or a very fortunate man.  ;)
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 12:50:13 PM
im sure theres a card out there that says - remove western markers - whether hes got it or not is a different matter - i suppose much like IRL its about watching what the other one does and attempting to counter it - i may be completely wrong but i figure hes got to waste a certain number of ops points putting those back in Eastern Europe and that effectively puts us a few ops points in front - so if we use those somewhere 'good' we already have an advantage - looks to Gary for sage nodding and approval!!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 12:52:04 PM
^Yes, but reacting to them gives them the initiative, innit.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 12:55:06 PM
heh thats what i mean, they have to react to us now by adding their counters back to Eastern Europe which gives us a chance to go spread ourselves (!) in Central America, Middle East and then they have to react there too

i

think!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 04, 2013, 01:03:43 PM
OK Geek, but in that case are there any regions where he can pull the same trick on us. Any weak area's that we can improve - I must consult the map again - unfortunately, I still have not had much time to give the rules more than a quick browse, but Gary, your tips are much appreciated, you obviously have a great knowledge of the game.

Actually, I've only played this game once but the rules just "clicked" with me; probably because I have played the game designer's sister game "1960: Making of the President" several times and it uses a very similar system.  That would make a fun forum based game as well I think.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 01:04:17 PM
Geek, I can see the underlying logic in that. So the idea is to create multiple threats, and they will not know which one to take seriously.

However, since we do not have a long term strategy, neither do we. I think that because we do not have any experience with the game, we have not really considered what our medium - long term goals are.

Gary - is it normal, in game terms, for experienced players to have some sort of outline game plan, or is this to an extent dictated by the first hand of cards?

I'm thinking here of something like the old 'Lepanto Opening' in Diplomacy, which is the only game I've ever played that's remotely like this.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 04, 2013, 01:11:32 PM
Study the rules about the "Scoring Cards".  Either you, your opponent(s) or the deck will have them for Europe, Asia and the Middle East.  If a player is dealt a Scoring Card, that card will have to be played at some point during that turn.  If you hold it, your strategy may very well be (better be) to make sure that you are going to rack up the points in that region by having control of countries.  If you suspect that your opponent has a particular scoring card, then you want to do what you can to counter that.  So, keep track of which scoring cards have been played as the turns go by.  Those can be key in driving your "policy".
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 01:14:04 PM
i think thats in chapter 10 Bob - basically its a card and on that card is a scoring breakdown of what you need to capture the points - that was the presence v dominance thing - i suppose as we dont have one yet its not the biggest of priorities, particularly at this early stage

damn - more reading required
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 01:20:24 PM
found this -


1) Hold on to your own High Ops Value events -- Most powerful Soviet events are discarded after use in the Early War. You want to hold your high value events like NATO and potentially even MARSHALL PLAN (depending on the disposition of EUROPEAN SCORING), so that on the reshuffle between rounds 2/3 both players are holding a hand full of blue starred cards.

2) Consider Playing High Value Soviet Events -- Remember, you can chose whether the event happens BEFORE or AFTER you take your operations. Frequently, you can minimize/eliminate the damage done by a Soviet event by using the cards operations to cover it up. You won't have this same luxury if the USSR plays the event, as you will frequently be short of the necessary operations points to counter.

3) Minimize Soviet Infiltration -- Two cards are deadly in the Early War for midwar position. DECOLONIZATION and FIDEL. If you can hold or bury these cards do so. If the Soviets play them, counter coup or realign immediately -- particularly FIDEL. South and Central American can be VERY tough for the Soviets to break into without him. You might be able to keep them a US lake without him, and grab domination in both regions during the MidWar. Its harder to keep the Soviets out of Africa, but without DECOLONIZATION, they will need to make a concerted effort to bust in.

4) Use turn 3 to drop valuable Soviet events on Space Race -- If you wait until turn 3 to drop big events into the space race (like Fidel or DECOLONIZATION) they are going to be out until the Midwar reshuffle -- that's all but dead.

5) Keep Note of Event Impacts on Influece -- You want to secure Israel from the ARAB ISRAELI war event, but keep in mind, that's dangerous until NASSER has been played. Stay out of ROMANIA until ROMANIAN ABDICATION. Stay out of Eastern Europe until the disposition of WARSAW PACT (etc. etc.)

6) Watch the Middle East -- The Middle East is like Central and South America for the Soviets, if you get tossed out it can be very hard to get back in. Furthermore, the Middle East has the OPEC event (also applies to Venezuela) which makes it a very lucrative area for VPs. Ananda recommended Israel as a base. That works post-Camp David accords, if Israel is surrounded by friends or if ARAB ISRAELI war is buried. Otherwise, its risky. In my first play in the region, I try to use a 3 OP, and grab Iran (gotta have a battleground), Lebanon -- some protection against ARAB ISRAELI WAR and a cheap non-battleground country and drop 1 in Iraq. Now, control of Iraq alone will cost the Soviets a 3 Op, and the US player can use that one influence to get into places like Saudi Arabia.

7) Play Scoring Cards Early when you are behind -- ALWAYS secure presence in a region if possible. This will greatly mitigate any disaster, but barring that, if you are behind in a region consider playing the scoring card early and concentrating your efforts elsewhere. Ordinarily, if you are playing catch-up, your opponent will notice, and you will probably fall further behind in the region -- or worse, play a lot of ops for the same result you could have gotten without lifting a finger.

8) Play spare ops to set up for MidWar -- Know that a US Early War autovictory is unlikely, so get ready for the mid war. If you can get breathing room of even 1 ops point, use if in Africa, South or Central America. It will definitely reap rewards later.

9) Eschew VP Events Early -- DUCK AND COVER will make you feel better about the score board, but three influence played during the Early War will likely earn you more VPs over the game than the 2/3 VPs from the event. Furthermore, you want to preserve these events for when you are in a position to go for the kill in the Midwar.

10) BOARD POSITION, BOARD POSITION, BOARD POSITION -- the key to victory for either player is forcing your opponent to waste his operations reacting. This is most common with Scoring Cards. If you have laid the ground work in the Early War for a midwar victory by containing the Soviets and spreading a little influence in places you know will be coming up for scoring rounds 4-7, you will be alright.

11) Never Give Up -- I took a US player to -18, only to have him battle me back to a draw in 2 turns. How? Well, I went for cheap points over board position. When I wasn't able to put him away, things swung wildly in his favor in the Late War. Early War was designed to be tough on the US player, you've got to have your eye prize for your mid to late war win.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 01:23:29 PM
Interesting.......I'm alternating between here and the rules at the moment.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 01:25:23 PM
and a more comprehensive one -

1) Almost always use the pro U.S. cards for operations points. You need to keep as may pro U.S. cards in the deck as possible.
2) Early on try as may Coup attempts as you possibly can. This serves two functions. The first is that it jacks up your required military operations points, which will score you V.P.'s, or at least prevent the Soviet player from scoring. And second it drives the Defcon level down which stops Coup attempts against you in the most important regions. You should almost always look to Coup with your first action. Every turn the Defcon goes up one level, and if your keeping the Defcon level down only one player is going to get to Coup in a battle ground state, and it would be nice if it was you.
3) When at all possible burn pro Soviet cards out of the deck. The less of his cards that are in the deck the more your cards will pop up. Just don't get carried away with this. There are some Soviet cards that you just never want to see. As such, since you will have plenty of Red cards in your hand you might as well try to win the space race and get the extra few victory points. These extra points can keep you alive longer, and get you further into the game when things even out.
4) You can't keep up with the Soviet player on all three fronts in the early war. (Europe, Asia, and the Middle East) You are going to loose somewhere. Make sure it's not in Europe!
5) And most importantly. Know what cards are in the deck, and what they do. If you don't know the deck you will end up spending your very limited resources on things that will either be given to you later (Japan) or on things that may get taken away from you (Israel).
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 01:32:13 PM
Soooo - obviously, our main Bastion is Europe, and that has to be protected at all costs. Seems to me that the Middle East is also going to be more important to us than Asia, so maybe we should be concentrating there - or have I read that wrong?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 01:44:05 PM
Soooo - obviously, our main Bastion is Europe, and that has to be protected at all costs. Seems to me that the Middle East is also going to be more important to us than Asia, so maybe we should be concentrating there - or have I read that wrong?

no i think youre right, and apparently if were kicked out of the ME its a bastard to get back in so that looks good

and the advice is to burn through the pro russian cards we have now
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 01:47:22 PM
Yeah, makes sense. Need to get Stagger's thoughts on this as well.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 01:54:58 PM
sometimes it feels like theres just me walking the corridors of power - sigh
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 01:56:22 PM
Well, we voted for you.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 01:57:50 PM
i wasnt aware there was a vote!!

i thought this was a tri-party democracy
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 01:59:05 PM
Why yes, of course, that so very true.......boss.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 02:07:06 PM
goddamit - when the firing squad come for me im taking you with me
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 02:07:50 PM
To hold you coat and light that last ciggy?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 02:12:54 PM
and point at you behind your back

Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 04, 2013, 03:48:49 PM
Edit to an early comment: the European Unrest card that you headlined with has a higher OPS value, so that will need to go first so when you guys have chosen your three Eastern European countries to strip a influence point from (each), let me know and I will apply those results.

Then I will be able to roll for the Olympic Games and apply those results.

Thanks
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 03:51:20 PM
Thanks Gary, I think we're just awaiting some input from Stagger.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 04, 2013, 04:07:38 PM
Thanks Gary, I think we're just awaiting some input from Stagger.

Not trying to rush you guys, but perhaps if you and ucgeek post your three countries that you choose, and in order of precendence, we can see if we have a consensus for all three amongst each of you all, or if perhaps 2 of the 3 are the same and then you guys could come to a consensus on that third country.  Would make it easier for me to know where you stand with that at this point as well instead of having to backtrack through the messages.  Thanks guys!
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 04, 2013, 04:24:28 PM
Makes sense. Two is a quorum then.
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 04:50:39 PM
lets go east germany, poland, yugoslavia - i think theyre the only 3 anyway
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 04, 2013, 04:53:27 PM
Just got home from work. I approve the plan and I also approve the 2 is a quorum principle since it's pretty obvious I'll be late to the party on any week day due to both me working late and you lot being 5 hours ahead of me.  :)
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 05:02:43 PM
its cool - we can do this with a bit of planning - with the plan in mind, do you mind posting your musings on turn 2's strategy and card then - or shall we wait for the olympic roll first?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 04, 2013, 05:04:31 PM
Let's wait for the roll. It'll give me time to figure out how to sound like I know what I'm talking about...
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: undercovergeek on December 04, 2013, 05:07:19 PM
Let's wait for the roll. It'll give me time to figure out how to sound like I know what I'm talking about...

lmao - im right with you
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: GJK on December 04, 2013, 05:32:35 PM
So will these be the three then gentlemen?

east germany, poland, yugoslavia

If so, I'll run that up tonight and conclude the Olympic games rolls as well.  First, time for dinner.  :)
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: Staggerwing on December 04, 2013, 05:42:21 PM
Go!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 04, 2013, 07:49:25 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Headline_News.jpg)

Team USA headlined with "East European Unrest" (OPs value of 3).  Team USSR headlined with "Olympic Games" (OPs value of 2).  Therefore, "East European Unrest" will headline first.

East European Unrest: Early or Mid War: Remove 1 USSR Influence from 3 countries in Eastern Europe. Late War: Remove 2 USSR Influence from 3 countries in Eastern Europe.

For the three Eastern European countries, Team USA has chosen:

EAST GERMANY, POLAND, YUGOSLAVIA

One (1) Influence Point will be removed from each of those.

Team USSR headlined with "Olympic Games".  This left Team USA with a decision; either boycott the games or attend them.  Team USA has chosen to attend the games.

Olympic Games: This player sponsors the Olympics. The opponent must either participate or boycott. If the opponent participates, each player rolls a die and the sponsor adds 2 to their roll. The player with the highest modified die roll receives 2 VP (reroll ties). If the opponent boycotts, degrade the DEFCON level by 1 and the sponsor may conduct Operations as if they played a 4 Ops card.

So, a die roll will be made for each team.  Team USSR will have a +2 die roll modifier. 

These were the results...

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Olympic_Games_Results.jpg)

This is the situation in Europe after the Headline Phase:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Europe_Map_Post_Headline.jpg)

The link to the full size map can be seen here: http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Game_Map_Post_Headline.jpg (http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Game_Map_Post_Headline.jpg)

This concludes the Turn 1 HEADLINE PHASE.  Team USSR is first tasked with chosing a card for play in Action Round 1 of Turn 1.  That will be followed by Team USA.

Good luck in Round 1 Teams.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Ubercat on December 04, 2013, 08:17:29 PM
Crap, they participated in the Olympics. It's great that we got 2 VP's out of it, but I REALLY wanted to use the 4 IP's for our Iran coup. That would probably have benefited us by more than 2 VP's in the longer run. Now we'll have to use up our first round card play to achieve the same thing. Well, we're up first. Shall we go ahead and play NATO for our Iranian coup?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 05, 2013, 01:16:34 AM
ok, i dont think that was too bad - VPs yeah but we'll catch up

So, first things first lets sort out our strategy - looking at the 2 'how to win as the US' posts in the other thread it seems the consensus there and anywhere else i look is to try and strengthen our position in either Middle East and/or one of the americas and coup now on those areas we want to cause harm to the Russians

We need to pick the best card for this which i think means using a high ops point card and using it for ops as opposed to an event?

all thoughts welcome
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 05, 2013, 03:29:18 AM
pfffft - steroid taking, mustache growing east german cheats
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Barthheart on December 05, 2013, 04:50:52 AM
Da! Our crack suicide tea stands at the ready to take out the Imperialist Dogs puppet and install our own puppet.... err ... Fellow Soviet follower.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 05, 2013, 04:57:32 AM
Bah. Sounds like some in the West have sour grapes over the fact that the game has not escalated to Defcon 1 yet.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 05, 2013, 05:16:05 AM
Yee-Hah!!!



(http://quadrantingdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/stranglovebombride.jpg)

Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 05, 2013, 05:24:01 AM
Horrywood?!?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 05, 2013, 05:31:10 AM
We could play the test-ban card for 4 points.

Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 05, 2013, 05:32:45 AM
Damn strange… err, straight!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 05, 2013, 05:41:17 AM
We could play the test-ban card for 4 points.

reading on the net one of the most powerful USSR cards at this point in the game is Castro - and we own it!! But ive read you can dumop cards into space race to make the effects not to uncomfortable

if were going to attempt coups, which lowers Defcon, should we wait til Defcon is in a low position first, maybe use red scare for the 4 points?
Title: Re: Communists under the bed!
Post by: bob48 on December 05, 2013, 12:02:24 PM
Agreed.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 05, 2013, 12:05:34 PM
Or, since we are not going to do too much in Asia, what will be the effect of dumping the Vietnam revolts card - it will remove a Sov card from play?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: skeptical.platypus on December 05, 2013, 07:03:56 PM
we're planning!!!!

that and imperial dog 1 - Staggerwing is on the other side of the sea and in bed, dog 2 - Bob is old and confused and has forgotten, and dog 3 - me, i have a job where i can plan all day and scheme your downfall - im currently reading Captain Zogs guide to winning Twilight on just the first move (tm) - and then you may as well put your furry hat away

Actually, Stagger and I had in-depth discussion about it on Steam last night, and we both agree that we will not make any moves that can't subsequently be blamed on you if they go wrong.

Lol, if that's not a good representation of intergovernmental relations, I don't know what is.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: skeptical.platypus on December 05, 2013, 07:15:07 PM
(psssttt Brant... can anyone else read this stuff or are we being crazy just fer our own amusement?)

You're definitely being crazy for my amusement, and thank you for it.

So far, narrow lead for soviets in guffaws:

LOLs, Thanks to Team Eagle:

1) Staggerwing & Bob's plausible deniability plan for UndercoverGeek




LOLs, Thanks to the Team Bear:

1) Comrade Barthheartovich (hilarious name)

2) Banzai's wool suit already fitted for UndercoverGeek

Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 05, 2013, 07:20:06 PM

reading on the net one of the most powerful USSR cards at this point in the game is Castro - and we own it!! But ive read you can dumop cards into space race to make the effects not to uncomfortable

If that is how it works then we need to shoot Fidel into Space ASAP!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 06, 2013, 12:34:43 AM
so next move then - aggressive influence expanding or a coup attempt or russian card discarding - attempting a coup brings the defcon down a level - which to some extent means if its low it limits russias ability to do it to us
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: GJK on December 06, 2013, 05:05:20 AM
Comrades, has Team USSR reached a consensus on their card play for Round 1?  If so, please let me know which card you have chosen and whether you will be playing it for the Event or the Operational Points value.  If it is an Event that requires you to take some action, could you describe what actions you would be taking in accordance with that Event or if it is OPs that you have to spend, what you will be spending it on and where in detail please.
Thank you Comrades!  All Seeing Eye out.....
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 06, 2013, 05:07:23 AM
As posted on Team USSR's forum - when choosing a card for the Action Rounds,  please let me know which card you have chosen and whether you will be playing it for the Event or the Operational Points value.  If it is an Event that requires you to take some action, could you describe what actions you would be taking in accordance with that Event or if it is OPs that you have to spend, what you will be spending them on and where and in as much detail as I need.

Thank you gents!
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 06, 2013, 05:58:39 AM
Okay comrades...

As the rules state we can only hold one card over at the completion of all Action Rounds...

The Asia scoring card should obviously not be played this Phase. However, since we cannot hold scoring cards from turn to turn, we'll have to play it this turn sometime. I suggest we hold off on that until one of the latter Action Rounds for this Turn. (If I'm reading this right, we have Domination in Asia right now, as we Control North Korea and the puny US have presences in but do not Control Japan or the Philippines, so technically we would get seven VPs +1 for having Control of a battleground state (NK) for a total of 8 VPs. That would surely give the Americans some serious palpitations!)

The China Card would be a great card to play just before the Asia Scoring card, if we use all of its OPS points in Asia (doing so will give us +1 OPS for a total of five). We'll need to build our influence appropriately over the next few Action Rounds to take advantage of that. So, I think we should hold off until later this Turn.

Of the remaining cards, Blockade is a pretty powerful way of getting the USA to dump a 3+ OPS Card or losing all influence in West Germany.

De-Stalinization, I don't like the Event. I like where our influence is right now and don't want to move anything around. So, we could play that one for its 3 OPS only.

The remaining cards we have are all pro-USA...

Five-Year Plan - ugh. I don't like this card. However, it's worth 3 OPS. I think this is Space Race track fodder.

Containment - No. +1 OPS to the US for the rest of the turn? It's worth 3 OPS, though, so it's another Space Race fodder card.

NATO - Since Marshall Plan or Warsaw Pact have not been played, it's moot. It's worth 4 OPS, so we could either play it for its OPS or place it on the Space Race track.

CIA Created - This is our only real Achilles' heel this Turn. It's only worth 1 OPS, so we can't sluff it off on the Space Race track. It only gives the Western swine a free 1 OPS point to play with, but it also reveals our hand. I'm thinking this one should be held over to the next Turn, or played later in this Turn so there's less cards.

What's our best bet right now? Play NATO for 4 OPS and run a coup in Iran. This would up the Required Military Operations track marker for us to 4 (for the 4 OPS the card is worth), and since we're at DEFCON 5 (for now, heh-heh), we're going to be close to making our Military Ops requirement for this Turn.

Since Iran has a Stability of 2 (bear with me here, I'm doing this just to think it through), that number would be doubled to 4. We'd have a die roll and add +4 for our 4 OPS NATO card, giving us a range of 5-10. So, the coup would be successful no matter what; it would only be a matter of reaping the Influence rewards. If we rolled a 6, for example, that modifies our roll to an 10, which is well over the 4 point target...over by 6, actually. So, we'd remove the US's puny 1 point of Influence and replace it with 5 strong, virile Soviet Influence, and immediately gain Control of the People's Soviet Socialist Republic of Persia. If we rolled a 1, we'd get a 5, which is only 1 over, and that would remove the US's influence...but would give us no Influence ourselves. Which is not that big of a deal, but not much of an advantage, either. Let's hope for better than a 1.

Also, DEFCON will escalate by 1 since this is a battleground state, but oh well, that's the way things go. :)

If there's any flaws in my logic or understanding of the rules, please call me out on it.


Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 06, 2013, 06:05:32 AM
I would also strongly petition our next Action Round to be a Space Race play, using either Containment or Five-Year Plan. We can discuss that in the next thread; I just want to throw it out there.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 06, 2013, 06:13:31 AM
Our outside fan base grows to one!  :)

Glad that you're enjoying following along platy.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 06, 2013, 06:47:19 AM
GJK - are we going to play Tournament rules where we have to reveal our 'held' card from turn to turn to each other? Or is that just going to stay secret?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 06, 2013, 06:49:35 AM
We can take a vote on that if we decide to, otherwise, I would just say stick to the standard rules (for this game at least).
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 06, 2013, 06:59:27 AM
Nah, not that important. I'm for keeping it basic.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Ubercat on December 06, 2013, 07:32:19 AM
We don't yet have Domination in Asia. Domination requires controlling more Battleground states than the opponent, AND at least 1 non-Battleground state. That's why we need to grab Afghanistan (or something else) along with as many BG states as we can.

We can probably go ahead and play Containment for Ops. (we currently can't space race more than 1 card a turn) We just have to make it one of our last card plays so the damage is minimized.

I've already given my vote for our next card play and it's the same as BC's. I'm going to look at the map and our remaining cards together and develop an opinion of of our optimal order for card plays this turn.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Ubercat on December 06, 2013, 07:34:26 AM
Yeah. Since we have a moderator there's definitely no need to show our hold cards. He knows we're all honest!
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 06, 2013, 08:15:38 AM
We don't yet have Domination in Asia. Domination requires controlling more Battleground states than the opponent, AND at least 1 non-Battleground state. That's why we need to grab Afghanistan (or something else) along with as many BG states as we can.

Arg, I thought I might miss something. Thanks for the clarification.


Quote from: Ubercat
We can probably go ahead and play Containment for Ops. (we currently can't space race more than 1 card a turn) We just have to make it one of our last card plays so the damage is minimized.

At first I thought you were saying to play Containment for OPS this Action Round. I was about to say, Comrade...

And now that I see your point about Afghanistan, the next AR we could do a card for OPS and put some influence in Afghanistan and Lebanon for some quick Controls. And hope we get the Vietnam Revolts card soon to spread our wonderful influence through those weak SE Asia nations. 

(http://www.secondcitizen.net/Forum/images/smilies/communist.gif)

Quote from: Ubercat
I've already given my vote for our next card play and it's the same as BC's. I'm going to look at the map and our remaining cards together and develop an opinion of of our optimal order for card plays this turn.

We'll just need Comrade Barthheartovich's input now, and then we can give GJK our move.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 06, 2013, 08:40:53 AM
Yeah - the question should be whether or not I'm trustworthy.  Muah ha ha!!!!  I AM THE ALL SEEING EYE!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: skeptical.platypus on December 06, 2013, 11:51:46 AM
Our outside fan base grows to one!  :)

Glad that you're enjoying following along platy.

I like your "Card/Event" context summaries, btw. It's a very nice touch!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 06, 2013, 12:18:15 PM
any thoughts?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 06, 2013, 12:23:03 PM
I quite like the Vietnam Revolts card. It seems to me that it forces them to make actions in an area that we have decided not to include in our immediate plans (such as they are) and removes a red card from play. I may, of course, got that all tits-about-face!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 06, 2013, 01:35:58 PM
I quite like the Vietnam Revolts card. It seems to me that it forces them to make actions in an area that we have decided not to include in our immediate plans (such as they are) and removes a red card from play. I may, of course, got that all tits-about-face!

im good with that, lets play it as an event and get rid of it
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 06, 2013, 01:51:49 PM
Gan on then bonny lad.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 06, 2013, 05:14:02 PM
Okey Dokey
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 06, 2013, 05:29:20 PM
Okey Dokey

sure?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 06, 2013, 05:32:26 PM
LOL- I'm as much a babe in the woods as anyone here when it comes to this game so it all sounds good to me.  :D
Title: Re: The Kremlin (aka, Party Central)
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 06, 2013, 07:07:23 PM
Comrades, I will likely be out of reach tomorrow and most of Sunday.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: GJK on December 06, 2013, 09:49:59 PM
Since Comrade_Cat will be out for the weekend, is there a consensus on the next card and action to use with that card between two of the three of you?  If so, can you lay that out for Comrade Barthheartovich to see if he can agree on that play?  That way, we can let Team USA finalize their round one preps as well and hopefully look to going to round 2 for next week.  Thanks!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 07, 2013, 05:14:31 AM
In that case Gentlemen, we are in accord. Let us clench our buttocks and roll the die!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 07, 2013, 05:15:40 AM
Yessiree Bob!
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Ubercat on December 07, 2013, 07:04:56 AM
Since Comrade_Cat will be out for the weekend, is there a consensus on the next card and action to use with that card between two of the three of you?  If so, can you lay that out for Comrade Barthheartovich to see if he can agree on that play?  That way, we can let Team USA finalize their round one preps as well and hopefully look to going to round 2 for next week.  Thanks!

BC and I want to play NATO to coup Iran. We've both stated it several times and I think we've just been waiting for Barthheart to concur or dissent. I'll PM him.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 07, 2013, 07:51:52 AM
LOL!

By the way, it looks like Team USSR is about to reach agreement on their Action Round 1 card play - just waiting for confirmation from one of their team members.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 07, 2013, 07:58:04 AM
Was it a collective agreement, or one dictated by the supreme soviet? ;)
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 07, 2013, 08:16:36 AM
Was it a collective agreement, or one dictated by the supreme soviet? ;)

Somehow you get a sense that guns may be pointed at heads over there on their side, but you just can't tell sitting here staring at the computer screen.  :)
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 07, 2013, 09:31:12 AM
Did the 'Zdravstvuj Kitties' scratch and sniff yet?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 07, 2013, 10:02:19 AM
Our outside fan base grows to one!  :)

Glad that you're enjoying following along platy.

I like your "Card/Event" context summaries, btw. It's a very nice touch!

Thank you!  My mad Photoshop skills on display here...
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 07, 2013, 10:04:49 AM
Did the 'Zdravstvuj Kitties' scratch and sniff yet?

Still waiting on the vote from one AWOL comrade; who may of been imprisoned by a commissar for all that we know....
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 07, 2013, 10:07:17 AM
Did the 'Zdravstvuj Kitties' scratch and sniff yet?

Still waiting on the vote from one AWOL comrade; who may of been imprisoned by a commissar for all that we know....

He'll be in a Siberian Gulag by now, or building T34's in the Urals......
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 07, 2013, 10:28:17 AM
He might still be out washing The People's Bread Truck.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 07, 2013, 10:30:03 AM
He might still be out washing The People's Bread Truck.

In Soviet Russia, the Peoples Bread Truck washes you!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 07, 2013, 11:49:57 AM
Lmao.. I'm sure there should be more war by now.... how experienced are out humble opponents?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 07, 2013, 03:30:51 PM
Just so it's official then..... Vietnam as an event please
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: Barthheart on December 07, 2013, 03:55:52 PM
Yes NATO to coup Iran.

Sorry driving through freezing rain in Kentucky.... Lots of fun.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 07, 2013, 04:20:07 PM
Affirmative, Tex.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: GJK on December 07, 2013, 04:55:09 PM
Sounds good - I'll get that worked out and uploaded this evening.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 07, 2013, 05:16:17 PM
Wey aye lad.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 07, 2013, 05:23:27 PM
Just to confirm, Team USA wishes to play "Vietnam Revolts" for the Event for your Action Round 1 card play?  If so, I can process your turn right after I conduct Team USSR's turn tonight.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 07, 2013, 05:24:41 PM
Warp factor 6 - Engage!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 07, 2013, 06:27:42 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R1_Soviet_News.jpg)

Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 07, 2013, 06:32:37 PM
 (http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Turn1_Round1_Soviet.jpg)

Turn 1, Round 1 - Soviet Play

Team USSR elects to play the card "NATO" for the Operational Points value (4).  They will be attempting a COUP in IRAN.

IRAN is a Battleground country and currently Team USA has one (1) point of influence there. IRAN has a Stability Number of two (2).

The COUP attempt works out as such:

IRAN Stability #: 2
Multiplier: x2
Total: 4

Team USSR is playing a card with four (4) OPs points.  That will be added to their die roll.  The result is:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R1_Soviet_Die_Roll.jpg)

Die of 1 + 4 totals 5

The COUP attempt in IRAN is successful.

The difference between the total needed (4) and the modified die roll (5) is one (1).  One IP from Team USA is removed from IRAN.

No IP's are added for Team USSR since the difference is now at zero with the removal of Team USA's one IP.

Team USSR is credited with conducting 4 MilOps for the turn.

DEFCON is decreased to Four (4).

Since neither of the events "Marshall Plan" nor "Warsaw Pact" have yet been played, the event for this card is not triggered. This card will be returned to the deck for a later draw.

The updated game map can be viewed here:  http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R1_Soviet_Map.jpg (http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R1_Soviet_Map.jpg)

This concludes the Soviet portion of Turn 1 Round 1.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 07, 2013, 06:58:26 PM
FYI, Team USSR has conducted their Round 1 play and I've updated the main forum.  I will be posting your round 1 play a little bit later tonight.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 08, 2013, 01:28:07 AM
Warmongers!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 08, 2013, 01:29:23 AM
We've been couped!

We can't get kicked out of middle east
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 08, 2013, 05:12:22 AM
We need some military points as well.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 08, 2013, 06:37:01 AM
Our Crack Suicide Squad has emerged victorious! All will get the Medal of the People, posthumously of course. Their families will be proud to hang this great honour on the walls of their hovels... err... homes.

Maybe next time we should send some troops to stay alive to help bolster the newly "elected" head of state...... Just saying.....  :P

Comrade Barthheartovich
General Secretary of Red Army
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 08, 2013, 10:43:51 AM
Ok guys, I'm going to roll out "Vietnam Revolts" as your card play here in a bit.  You are wanting to play the card for the EVENT which will add 2 IP's to Vietnam for Team USSR and for the remainder of the turn, Team USSR will gain a bonus of 1 OPs point for any card that they choose to play for OPs in Southeast Asia.  Is that your choice?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 08, 2013, 10:50:20 AM
Guys,

iirc we are deliberately taking some lumps and playing this event to remove the card from play and entice them to spend points in SE, thus keeping them out of the rest of the world this next card play, correct?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 08, 2013, 11:40:43 AM
That is my understanding, yes.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 08, 2013, 11:43:16 AM
Then I think we are good to go.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 08, 2013, 02:02:33 PM
Maybe I should or shouldn't remind teams of the rules outside of the main forum but since the game is new to all of you guys here I think that you're at a bit of a disadvantage so let me remind you of how the card play works for the Action Rounds:

You can play a card for EITHER the Event or the OPs points.  IF you play it for the Event, the OPs points aren't used (unless the Event says to use them for something).  IF you play the card for the OPs, the Event doesn't trigger UNLESS it is an Event solely for your opponent (a Red Star card in this case).  Cards that have Events asterisked (*) are removed from play permantently if (only if) the Event is played.  That could mean, the card is played by one side for the OPs and if the card is an event for the other side, THEN the Event would trigger, be conducted and then the card would be removed from play.  If a card's event title is underlined, the card remains face up and in play until a certain other card cancels it.

SO...what you want to do is play that card for the OPs; placing influence markers or doing a realignment roll, or a coup.  Then, after you've used your OPs, the event will trigger because it is a USSR card (red star) and they will get the goodies for SE Asia that the event talks about.  At least you will get the 2 OPs to spend as well.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 08, 2013, 02:07:27 PM
Gotcha- get the points, let the opposition get their event, then remove it. That sounds like the way to go. What'll we do with our points Boys?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 08, 2013, 02:25:45 PM
Hmmm. How about using them to influence the space race. Either that or can we reinforce our influence somewhere that will discomfort the soviets?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 08, 2013, 02:31:08 PM
A military move somewhere?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 08, 2013, 02:32:05 PM
A military move somewhere?

OK - maybe. I'll have a look at the map.

South America? or maybe Africa?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 08, 2013, 03:00:36 PM
Is best to start glorious spread of the dialectic among the savages first. KGB shall build glorious new headquarters with huge golden plaque outside of gates reading:

славный Зарядка Кот Славный застенках и день спа

Follow the soon of new glorious downtown Tehran (soon to be rename of 'Catograd'):

гигант огромный Барт сердце ович база бомбить империалистическую свиней

With biggest building in of center Asia called:

гений над кошкой государственного центра безопасности и центр промывания мозгов

Warmongers!

Is unnecessary in first place of name-calling if country would just drop dead and die embrace their generous new Red masters.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 08, 2013, 03:03:31 PM
Is of success, comrades. Not by a good margin as I had hoped, but these devils to our south must be brought in line through profuse use of dialogue and submachinegun fire.

I shall create a new Turn 1/AR 2 thread here for use whenever you're ready, GJK.
Title: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 08, 2013, 03:04:08 PM
Is to discuss plan and indicate strategy for this AR in Turn 1.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 08, 2013, 03:32:02 PM
but if we dont play it as an event it goes back in the deck - i think - i understood that was the whole purpose of getting rid of the russian cards now
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 08, 2013, 07:07:19 PM
The event will trigger after you play it for OPs because it is a Soviet event (red star). 

5.2 Events Associated With Your Opponent: If a player plays a card as an Operation, and the card’s Event is associated only with his opponent, the Event still occurs (and the card, if it has an asterisk after the Event title, is removed).

NOTE: When playing a card for operations and it triggers your opponent’s event, your opponent implements the event text as if they had played the card themselves.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 08, 2013, 07:19:53 PM
And the card is removed, correct? Then we should go ahead. You guys know what you want to do with out 2 points?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 08, 2013, 07:22:40 PM
And the card is removed, correct? Then we should go ahead. You guys know what you want to do with out 2 points?

That particular card is asterisked so yes, it would be removed after team USSR plays out the event.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 09, 2013, 07:12:15 AM
wahooo - lets do that - and coup some shit
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 09, 2013, 08:03:17 AM
There's a coup or realignment or place influence.  Double check the rules and how much this card would assist in a coup and then see if that will be good enough to coup whatever counry that you're looking at couping in.  You have countries in Europe that you could add influence to or countries that are adjacent to other countries that you already have influence in that you could put new influence in to.  Realignment rolls are very iffy and frankly, that's the least played option.  There's several options on the table there for you guys.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 09, 2013, 09:35:02 AM
ok - i think vietnam is 2 ops points - i dont think thats enough to coup anywhere but we can try and spread some influence around - middle east chaps?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 09, 2013, 10:29:55 AM
MiddleEast sounds good.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 09, 2013, 12:02:06 PM
Whilst we don't want to dance to their tune, we did say that the ME is more important to us than Asia, so what can we do in that neck of the woods?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 09, 2013, 12:47:23 PM
Whilst we don't want to dance to their tune, we did say that the ME is more important to us than Asia, so what can we do in that neck of the woods?

we can spread our influence to provinces near to what we already own
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 09, 2013, 12:49:24 PM
Sounds the right thing to do.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 09, 2013, 12:52:10 PM
Sounds the right thing to do.

that looks to be egypt, jordan and lebanon seen as we just got kicked from Iran, i dont know if we can strengthen our position in israel - is it better to have 1 2 strength province or 2 1 strength ones? i would imagine 2 x 1 as its abour spreading our influence
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 09, 2013, 12:55:45 PM
I would think 2 x 1. Once we're in there maybe we get a later chance to add more.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 09, 2013, 12:56:02 PM
Where is lazy Imperialist next move? Or have they given into the inevitable and are getting fur coats for all?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 09, 2013, 12:57:10 PM
still shocked by unprovoked attack in the middle east, and the sight of your men things at the olympics!!!

almost ready!!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 09, 2013, 12:57:36 PM
shall we make an executive missing mr wing decision?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on December 09, 2013, 12:59:37 PM
Oi!

'e called me a 'Lazy Imperialist'

Well, you got that right  ;)
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 09, 2013, 01:03:34 PM
One thinks one will be required to do so. We did agree that 2 constitutes a quorum, so we can either run with this or hang on for a bit to see if Stagger comes on - don't forget the time difference twixt he and us.

I vote Egypt and Jordan.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 09, 2013, 01:04:13 PM
id rather be a lazy imperialist than a warmongering, furry hat wearing, queueing for bread, Trabant driving Russkie
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 09, 2013, 01:05:02 PM
out of those lets go Jordan - it has a historical twang about it
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 09, 2013, 01:07:59 PM
Fair do's then - agreed.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on December 09, 2013, 01:10:29 PM
^Wot geek said.

And those 'female' athletes that all looked like Jack Dempsey's mum.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 09, 2013, 01:11:10 PM
HAHAHA! Better Red than Dead Lazy Imperialist!

Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on December 09, 2013, 01:13:30 PM
Why do Trabants have heated rear windows?

So you can keep your hands warm when your pushing 'em.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 09, 2013, 01:15:21 PM
Why do Trabants have heated rear windows?

So you can keep your hands warm when your pushing 'em.

ooooo its on now

our secret weapon - when the puns are out youve no chance
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on December 09, 2013, 01:22:15 PM
You mean the gloves are off?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 09, 2013, 01:44:24 PM
Why do Trabants have heated rear windows?

So you can keep your hands warm when your pushing 'em.

ooooo its on now

our secret weapon - when the puns are out youve no chance

There's no pun here....  ???

You have to hand it to Bob though as he steps up to cover yer faux paw......
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on December 09, 2013, 01:56:22 PM
Not sue if I should give you the Agincourt salute  ;)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 09, 2013, 01:59:25 PM
Damn longbowmen!  ;D

Flying Fickle Finger of Fate back at ya!  ;)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on December 09, 2013, 02:10:09 PM
lol
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 09, 2013, 05:23:53 PM
You mean the gloves are off?

Please do not to be spreadink your Imperialist decadent lies. Gloves are of a fake American corporation lie to swindle hardwork peasants into thinking hands should be idle and shoved into protective cover.

Is lie that Soviet winters cold - western propaganda perpetrated to give peasants hope.

I am of recruit Sean Connery to be spokesperson in new anti-glove campaign, da?

Plus like-ingk Sovietball comics. Is good Russian pastime.

(http://i.imgur.com/XlBBqZF.png)
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 09, 2013, 06:49:01 PM
You could do one each in Egypt and Jordan, or two in either of those places.  Note that Egypt is a battleground country yet so is Saudi Arabia which the best route to it for you guys at this point is via Jordan.  I think that we're just waiting on Stagger's opinion on this one, right?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 09, 2013, 07:01:04 PM
lets go 2 x jordan
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 09, 2013, 07:01:16 PM
A hearty 'Yes' to Jordan!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 09, 2013, 07:07:15 PM
Ok, and I think that Bob voted Jordan as well (well, Egypt and Jordan) so I think that he'd be in agreement.  I'm going to run with that.  Round update posting coming up in just a bit.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 09, 2013, 07:30:09 PM
Breaking news...

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R1_USA_News.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 09, 2013, 07:34:14 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R1_USA_Event.jpg)


Turn 1, Round 1 - Team USA

Team USA has chosen to play "Vietnam Revolts" for the OPs points (2).  They have placed both of those points in JORDAN.  The US now has PRESENCE in the Middle East because they now control JORDAN.

Team USSR were allowed to play the Event on the "Vietnam Revolts" card since it is an event card solely for their side.  Two Influence Points were added to Vietnam and they also will receive +1 OPs points for any card that they use ALL of the OPs points in Southeast Asia for.  This card will be removed at the end of the Turn permanently.  It remains on the board for now as a reminder of the bonus OPs that Team USSR gets from it.

This concludes Round 1 of Turn 1.  Team USSR will be up next with Turn 1, Round 2.

The updated game map can be seen here:  http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R1_USA_Map.jpg

Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 09, 2013, 07:48:54 PM
Comrades: the play of decadent imperialists, Vietnam Revolts, is quite interesting.

I think this may be the start of turning Asia red!
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: Barthheart on December 09, 2013, 07:58:09 PM
Yeah, interesting play.... Maybe they have the Mid East score card......???
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 09, 2013, 08:15:25 PM
Possible. I hate to play in reaction to their moves. Until they make a more overt move in the Middle East, I think we should focus on Asia. Other ideas are welcome of course. Our hand kind of sucks, though, with a lot of Western events; their play of that card for OPS indicates their hand may suck, too.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: Ubercat on December 10, 2013, 11:43:48 AM
They must have ME scoring. That's the only way that taking Jordan makes any sense. They've now grabbed presence in the ME which minimizes the damage of scoring it. We currently have squat in the ME which means that if they play their scoring card next they'll grab 5 VP. NOT acceptable, Comrades! I say that we play Destalinization for 3 Ops as our next play and grab Iraq and Syria. That means that when they play it, instead of grabbing 5 VP, they'll give us 3 VP.

I hate to say it, but we may need to play the China card later in the  turn. It sucks, but we're in a good position to make points in both the ME and Asia. If they have the Europe scoring card, they're currently in a position to get 4 VP. Europe scoring is a possibility this turn, but the ME and Asia are both certainties as far as I'm concerned. I think we need to worry about Europe next turn and stick with what we know is coming out for now. The China card will maximize our gain in Asia, as dogging their heels in ME will maximize our gains there!
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: Barthheart on December 10, 2013, 12:45:12 PM
Well.... I have to agree with Comrade Ubercat again. Also by making a play at the Mid-East we mask for another round that we are making for Asia scoring.
We will have to play the China card. We get +1 for that and another +1 for the US action this last round. That's 6 Ops!

We also have Blockade to screw up any Europe scoring card... if we play it right.... maybe next round?


Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 10, 2013, 04:45:07 PM
Hmm. Valid points, comrades.

To play American advocate (see what I did there? Instead of Devil's advocate? A-hahaha!), I am not completely convinced they have the ME card. Would they not think the same of us for getting a coup in Iran? Perhaps they are countering our move with one of their own, in an easy country to gain control of.

I could be completely wrong, but it's a thought.

I think, but am not strongly wedded to, playing OPS in SE Asia to get the +1 OPS from Vietnam Revolts. I really hate to waste an AR not getting that +1 OPS point. Since they've played Vietnam Revolts now, taking advantage (and throwing around MUCH misdirection in the public game forum) of their card play by OPSing like mad in Asia actually is a logical step and not a bolt out of the blue. If we play to the Middle East, we're reacting to them. Also, Asia is worth more points than the ME...but then again, not by much.

Comrades Ubercat and Bartheartovich...if you are both absolutely convinced that moving further into the Middle East is the best move this AR, then I will defer to your beliefs.

I believe I heard a rumor that KGB is 'warming up' Siberian gulag with all our names on it, so let us be sure, da?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: Barthheart on December 10, 2013, 04:57:34 PM
Still... my knee jerk reaction was that they must have the ME scoring card, so by playing against it we would APPEAR to be reacting to them.
If we make a play for Asia too early they will get the idea we are trying to score there and move to block. If we make our move later in the turn they will be able to react less effectively.

I think we need to plan our card play, from here to the end of this turn, now and really not deviate unless the US pulls some really unusual shit.....
 
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 10, 2013, 06:00:55 PM
So be it.

So we shall agree to play De-Stalinization for 3 OPS and place 2 Influence in Syria and 1 in Iraq...is that correct?

Feel free to discuss further card play strategy. I'd rather wait and see what the evil Americans do in reaction. :)
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: Barthheart on December 10, 2013, 06:55:24 PM
I think it's 2 in Iraq and 1 in Syria... the blue header is for battle ground countries.

Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 10, 2013, 06:58:07 PM
Ah, is not dyslexia, is not getting up to see map room down the hall. Kremlin very fine place to live, but not if one is lazy.

Thought I'd remember that one right.

Comrade Ubercat...you're good with this?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: Ubercat on December 10, 2013, 07:13:47 PM
That would be 1 IP in Syria and 2 in Iraq.

The single Op from Vietnam revolts can be used on any card plays for the rest of the turn that put all their points in Southeast Asia. We don't have to do it as our NEXT card play. Also, there's only one BG country in SE Asia, Thailand, which we are fortunately in a position to grab when we go into Asia again.

think..plot...think...plot

OK, I think I have a cunning plan. We'll have the biggest radish ever grown! Seriously, here's what I'm envisioning:

Round 2: De-Stalinization as planned. If their next card play is in the ME, well good for them. They might catch up, but won't have passed us yet.

Round 3: Blockade for 1 Op. We'll use it in SE Asia and grab Thailand with our 2 Ops (1 extra). That will increase our domination in Asia by an extra VP. If they keep playing in the ME at this point, we'll let them go. At least they won't have control and we'll be maximizing our points in the more valuable Asia. There are three more events we haven't seen yet that help us in the ME. If they have any then they may want to score the ME before playing them. That's OK. We'll get the benefit the second time the ME gets scored. Also, we aren't playing for the blockade event so it will eventually get shuffled back into the deck. The more events we have in there, the better.

Round 4: The China card. 5 Ops in Asia. We grab Pakistan, Malaysia, and Laos/Cambodia. That will increase our scoring by another VP, and also grab us 2 more SE Asian countries. They won't help us in this scoring, but when SE Asia scoring card comes out later, we'll be looking good.

Round 5: Asia scoring. Mop up some nice VP!

Round 6: Five Year Plan for 3 Ops. We can figure out later what to do with these points. The important thing is, the event will make us discard one of THEIR cards. All we'll have left are CIA created and Containment. The event will fire but who cares? They'll either get 1 extra Op for their final card (assuming they play it for Ops) or they'll get to see our (almost empty) hand and use 1 Op. Their (wimpy) event will fire so the card will leave the game and we won't have to worry about it coming back when it may do more damage to us.

Edit: My vote is De-Staliization for 1 IP in Syria and 2 in Iraq to give us control of both.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: Barthheart on December 10, 2013, 07:22:32 PM
Da! Da! That's the idea.

Red Asia Rising!

 8)
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 10, 2013, 07:51:45 PM
I've not played in so long that I've forgotten how many things one must consider. One thing I keep forgetting about is the battleground country thing.

Thanks, Ubercat. Sounds like a good AR2 and a good framework for the rest of Turn 1.

GJK - I believe you have our move, sir.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: GJK on December 10, 2013, 08:27:44 PM
So it's De-Stalinization for the OPs then, 2 in Iraq and 1 in Syria?

Headed off to bed so I'll get your turn processed in the morning comrades.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 11, 2013, 04:34:02 AM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R2_Soviet_Event.jpg)
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: GJK on December 11, 2013, 04:42:55 AM
I'm updating the turn - here's your card hand as it now stands:


(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Soviet_Hand_T1_AR2_23453242.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 11, 2013, 04:49:59 AM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R2_Soviet_AR.jpg)

Turn 1, Round 2 - Team USSR


Team USSR has elected to play "De-Stalinization" for the Operational Value/Points (3).  They opt to place two (2) Influence Points in to Iraq and one (1) Influence Point in to Syria.

Control in the Middle East changes to "Soviet Domination".

The event on the "De-Stalinization" card was not triggered and thus the card will be shuffled back in to the deck.

This concludes Turn 1, Round 2 Soviet play.  Next up is Team USA's play for Round 2.

The full map as it stands now can be seen at: http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R2_Soviet_Map.jpg
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 11, 2013, 04:53:51 AM
Alright, you guys are on the clock for Round 2.  Here is your card hand as it stands now:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/US_Hand_Turn_1_AR2_q3422342.jpg)
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 11, 2013, 05:14:10 AM
Thanks, GJK.

Comrades - consider later in Turn 1, also, that playing Blockade might put the West into a position where they do not have a 3+ OPS card, which will clear out West Germany of their decadent influence. That would mean a prime opportunity to spread Marxism to the Rhine!

Sooooo many opportunities, so few OPS points...
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 11, 2013, 05:43:38 AM
lol its on in the middle east - i say we play red scare for the 4 ops points and stick 2 influence in Saudi and 2 in Lebanon - hes making a play for the ME but cant influence egypt and lybia at the moment
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 11, 2013, 06:13:59 AM
At last we have a port in the Mediterranean Sea for to base our fine Navy. Now we can keep better watch over lazy Imperialists in Italy.

Comrade Barthheartovich
General Secretary of Red Army

Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: Ubercat on December 11, 2013, 07:13:00 AM
If they're holding one of OUR 3 Ops cards, they may thank us for playing Blockade for the event. Not to mention, if we do that, we're giving up a VP in Asia. Blockade event could help us, but it's a big gamble IMHO.

Edit: This could really go either way. The following 3 Op Soviet events have not shown up yet, and could be in their hand.

Socialist Governments: This would really jack up their position in Europe if they're stuck playing the event.
DeGaulle leads France: This wouldn't hurt them too badly at this point.
Suez Crisis: This would cost them their 1 Ip in Israel and cost them control of Great Britain.
Comecon: This also wouldn't hurt them too badly if they had to play it. We'd gain some Ip in Eastern Europe.
Warsaw Pact Formed: We'd gain even more Ip in Eastern Europe.

Banzai_Cat may be right. The Blockade event is a gamble with a potentially big payoff. We just have sacrifice 1 VP to make the bet. It also means that the card will leave the game  :-[, but if they discard one of our cards, at least we'll know that it will come back.  :D
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 11, 2013, 07:56:19 AM
It's still early, but it's better to gamble now while we have a safety net of 20 VPs rather than less than that.

Of course, this depends on what the Americans do in the meantime. But I'd like us to at least consider that for an AR 5 or 6 play, perhaps.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 11, 2013, 11:58:53 AM
Yep - Red Scare would be my choice as well, and keep adding influence in the ME.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on December 11, 2013, 12:08:02 PM
Oh, you have a boat? Does it have a motor? ;)
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 11, 2013, 12:19:13 PM
its like we know what were doing bob
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 11, 2013, 12:20:17 PM
<giggle>
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 11, 2013, 12:20:22 PM
in russia, boat motors you

no?

im here all week
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 11, 2013, 01:39:57 PM
Looks like you guys are getting the hang of it.  :)

So...
Quote
i say we play red scare for the 4 ops points and stick 2 influence in Saudi and 2 in Lebanon

...we'll see what Stagger says but this is both of your guys' choice? Just making sure.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 11, 2013, 01:42:45 PM
I'm happy with that, Gary.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 11, 2013, 01:45:06 PM
thumbs up here
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 11, 2013, 01:46:46 PM
Thumbs up what?

..no, its ok, I don't wanna know.

Geek - Contaigion? (think Huw is tied up with studies at the mo)
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 11, 2013, 01:54:16 PM
im up for it - nay tonight - bogged down with house stuff but deffo over chrissy break son
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 11, 2013, 01:59:20 PM
ok - just ping me when you're up for it.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 11, 2013, 04:56:02 PM
Scare the Reds back under their beds!

Points allocation looks good too.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 11, 2013, 05:04:04 PM
woohoo!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 11, 2013, 06:14:40 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R2_USA_Event.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 11, 2013, 06:16:16 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R2_USA_Action.jpg)

Turn 1, Round 2 - Team USA


Team USA has opted to play the card "Red Scare/Purge" for the Operations Points (4).  They opt to place 2 IP's in Saudi Arabia and 2 IP's in Lebanon.

This card's event is NOT triggered since it is a neutral card.  Thus, it will be shuffled back in to the deck.

The full map as it stands now can be seen here: http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R2_USA_Map.jpg

This concludes Round 2 of Turn 1.  Next up is Round 3 of Turn 1 in which Team USSR is due up for play.


Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: GJK on December 11, 2013, 06:20:06 PM
Turn 1, Round 2 play for Team USA is posted.  Team USSR is on the clock.
Title: Turn 1, Action Round 3
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 11, 2013, 07:55:21 PM
Well...that was special. I'm still not utterly convinced they have the ME card, but they sure went for broke on that one.

Gary,

Would you mind posting our hand to this thread? Thank you in advance, sir.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 2
Post by: Ubercat on December 11, 2013, 08:05:24 PM
I have definitely changed my vote to playing Blockade for the event rather than Ops. If the Americans are hording a 4 Ops card, that would explain their latest play in the ME. 4 Ops would enable them to take Israel AND Saudi Arabia. They would grab domination and then score the ME for 3 VP. If we play Blockade, they have to discard their 4 Op card and their plan would be screwed up unless they happen to have another 4 Op card. That's unlikely as there are only 3 other 4 Op cards that we haven't seen yet. Then we STILL have time to get a lot of VP in Asia this turn.

We throw them off their schedule at the very least, or maybe kick them out of W. Germany. So, my vote for our next card play is Blockade for the event, which probably matches Banzai_Cat's.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 3
Post by: Ubercat on December 11, 2013, 08:07:05 PM
duplicated from prior rounds thread

I have definitely changed my vote to playing Blockade for the event rather than Ops. If the Americans are hording a 4 Ops card, that would explain their latest play in the ME. 4 Ops would enable them to take Israel AND Saudi Arabia. They would grab domination and then score the ME for 3 VP. If we play Blockade, they have to discard their 4 Op card and their plan would be screwed up unless they happen to have another 4 Op card. That's unlikely as there are only 3 other 4 Op cards that we haven't seen yet. Then we STILL have time to get a lot of VP in Asia this turn.

We throw them off their schedule at the very least, or maybe kick them out of W. Germany. So, my vote for our next card play is Blockade for the event, which probably matches Banzai_Cat's.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 3
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 11, 2013, 08:10:05 PM
Been a long day and I couldn't find our hand. I agree - I wanted to actually suggest the Blockade card for the event too, to mess with the imperialists a little (hopefully a lot) but wanted to check the other cards quickly.

Comrade Barthheartovich...what say you? Are you good with playing Blockade for the event for Turn 1, AR 3?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 3
Post by: GJK on December 11, 2013, 09:13:36 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Soviet_Hand_T1_AR2_23453242.jpg)

Your hand, as it stands.  If a cat were in a hat, a mouse went up the blouse.   My baby in blue, she only knew, the hand that I held at the time you...and us.  Ok, here she stands.   
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 3
Post by: Barthheart on December 11, 2013, 09:26:17 PM
Yep, Blockade as event.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 3
Post by: Barthheart on December 11, 2013, 09:29:44 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Soviet_Hand_T1_AR2_23453242.jpg)

Your hand, as it stands.  If a cat were in a hat, a mouse went up the blouse.   My baby in blue, she only knew, the hand that I held at the time you...and us.  Ok, here she stands.

Hey! Where's our China card?!?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: skeptical.platypus on December 11, 2013, 11:31:57 PM
The Eagle comes storming back!

So far, narrow lead for soviets in guffaws:

LOLs, Thanks to Team Eagle:

1) Staggerwing & Bob's plausible deniability plan for UndercoverGeek

2) "In russia, boats motor you."



LOLs, Thanks to the Team Bear:

1) Comrade Barthheartovich (hilarious name)

2) Banzai's wool suit already fitted for UndercoverGeek
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 3
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 12, 2013, 04:22:16 AM
No be panic, Comrade. We still have it. It has not left of our hands yet.

GJK, that's our move for Turn 1 AR 3 - playing Blockade for the Event.

Yours in Lenin,
Comrade BC
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 3
Post by: GJK on December 12, 2013, 05:22:45 AM
Gotchya.  Will have to work up the turn when I get home from work later in the day.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 12, 2013, 11:40:43 AM
Rock 'n roll!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 12, 2013, 06:50:40 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R3_Soviet_Event.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 12, 2013, 06:51:34 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R3_Soviet_Action.jpg)

Turn 1, Round 3 - Team USSR

Team USSR has opted to play "Blockade" for the EVENT.

Team USA will need to determine if they have a 3 OPs value card and if so, do they wish to surrender it.  The inability or the unwillingness to do so would result in the removal of the 4 US IP's in West Germany.  If Team USA opts to discard a 3 OPs card, no IP's would be lost in W. Germany. Note also that doing so would not count as the Round 3 card for Team USA.  They would simply be down a card at this point.  Irregardless of Team USA's decision, the Blockade card will be permanently removed from play.

I will update the map if/when there is a change in W. Germany.

Sounds like someone is holding somebody or some thing for a ransom!


Title: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 12, 2013, 07:13:02 PM
I realize this is premature as Team USA/Imperialist Swines have not yet played their AR3 card, but we can perhaps discuss our next move.

We now have CIA Created (1 OPS), Containment (3 OPS), and Five-Year Plan (3 OPS). Also, the Asia Scoring card.

We're somewhat hosed at the moment insofar as USA Events.

Five-Year Plan: we must randomly discard one card, and the Event will fire (unless it's Asia Scoring I think).
Containment: The US gets +1 OPS per cards played for OPS for the remaining ARs.
CIA Created: The US gets to see our hand.
Asia Scoring: 'Nuff said.

I don't want to play Asia Scoring this AR, but at the same time, I don't want to play CIA Created either; they don't need to see our Asia Scoring card. So that leaves Five-Year Plan and Containment.

Of the two, Containment is a bitter pill but one we can stomach I think. Five-Year Plan, well, there would be a 33% chance that Asia Scoring would disappear and therefore a big source of our VPs. Or there's a 66% chance that the US will get a free Event. I'm hoping we can avoid Five-Year Plan...

If we play Containment for 3 OPS, we can decide what to do with it when the US players decide if they're going to cough up a 3+ OPS card in response to our glorious blockade of their decadent porn houses in West Berlin. If they do not, that leaves West Germany open for 3 USSR Influence if we wish to put all our red eggs in one basket.

I am worried about East Germany and Poland; we're only 1 US Influence away from losing control of either country. I'm not saying we need to shore them up this AR, but think about when we might do that.

If the US players decide to cough up a 3+ OPS card, we can put those 3 OPS somewhere else. Maybe 1 more influence in Iran for Control, then 1 in Cambodia for Control and 1 in Thailand.

I dunno. Open to your thoughts, comrades.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 3
Post by: Ubercat on December 12, 2013, 07:18:15 PM
Comrades, if they don't give up a 3-4 Ops card, and lose W. Germany as a result, I say that we use the China card to grab W. Germany for ourselves (I mean for the glorious revolution). We'll be losing 1 single Op, but we could also be setting ourselves up for a quick win. Italy is fairly easy to coup with a big card, even with 3 enemy IP on it, and the DeGaulle card can help us muscle into France if they grab it first. Defcon is looking to slip back to 5 for next turn, so an Italian coup should be an option.

W. Germany will be a BITCH for them to get back if they lose it. I'd say that China card in Europe is a great play in that case. Scoring Asia without spending the China card there first is worth 5 VP. With the China card it's worth 7. I'd give up 2 VP to control W. Germany.

I'll bet that they're agonizing in the American forum right now. I wish I could be a small red fly on the wall....
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: Ubercat on December 12, 2013, 07:20:12 PM
Duplicated from previous thread

Comrades, if they don't give up a 3-4 Ops card, and lose W. Germany as a result, I say that we use the China card to grab W. Germany for ourselves (I mean for the glorious revolution). We'll be losing 1 single Op, but we could also be setting ourselves up for a quick win. Italy is fairly easy to coup with a big card, even with 3 enemy IP on it, and the DeGaulle card can help us muscle into France if they grab it first. Defcon is looking to slip back to 5 for next turn, so an Italian coup should be an option.

W. Germany will be a BITCH for them to get back if they lose it. I'd say that China card in Europe is a great play in that case. Scoring Asia without spending the China card there first is worth 5 VP. With the China card it's worth 7. I'd give up 2 VP to control W. Germany.

I'll bet that they're agonizing in the American forum right now. I wish I could be a small red fly on the wall....
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 12, 2013, 07:22:48 PM
Arrg! How can I forget the China Card?!?!? Sorry, comrades. Hungover from the KGB Holiday Gala and Execution Bonanza last eveningk.

Great idea, Ubercat. Let's see what the American swine are going to do...

And hopefully they will unlock these forums when the game is done; I'd love to read what they've been posting. ;D
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: Ubercat on December 12, 2013, 07:28:34 PM
We're somewhat hosed at the moment insofar as USA Events.

That's why we play Five Year Plan in round 6 with CIA created and Containment as our last 2 cards. Whichever card is randomly selected will have its event fire in a very wimpy manner and then the card will be removed from the game. I described it here Ubercats cunning plan (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=8538.msg214676#msg214676).
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 12, 2013, 07:30:45 PM
If this works, Order of Lenin for you, Comrade.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 12, 2013, 08:28:53 PM
Gentlemen!
Pinko tanks are lined up along the autobahnen into W. Berlin. Looks like we're going to have to dump a card to keep Operation Vittles going. The Comecon card it the likely one to toss since it's a Kremlin-friendly one. Does that mean it is also gone for good?

Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 12, 2013, 09:59:25 PM
Gentlemen!
Pinko tanks are lined up along the autobahnen into W. Berlin. Looks like we're going to have to dump a card to keep Operation Vittles going. The Comecon card it the likely one to toss since it's a Kremlin-friendly one. Does that mean it is also gone for good?

Since the event on the card wouldn't be triggered, then no.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 13, 2013, 05:27:10 AM
jesus - thats a nasty card!!!

id say lets throw NORAD, were no where near defcon 2 and we dont have Canada, that could be ages from now and were stuck holding it
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 13, 2013, 05:28:09 AM
and them maybe play the test ban card for the ops and throw 4 more ops down in the middle east
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 13, 2013, 06:34:58 AM
and them maybe play the test ban card for the ops and throw 4 more ops down in the middle east

You mean after playing the NORAD card? That sounds good. Time to wake up Bob from his nap...
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 13, 2013, 06:51:04 AM
Yeah except were not playing it were just tossing it to avoid the germany wipe out, then we play our card
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 13, 2013, 08:05:20 AM
Sorry about that, UberCat. Don't know how I forgot about your post. Long day and was trying to do too many things at once.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 13, 2013, 08:53:21 AM
Come on worthless American types! What 3+Ops card are you coughing up?
Or are you going to finally let us re-unite Germany under our watchful care and guidance?

The forces of the USSR would really prefer for you to try and break the blockade.....  8)

Comrade Barthheartovich
General Secretary of Red Army
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 13, 2013, 08:57:08 AM
Yeah except were not playing it were just tossing it to avoid the germany wipe out, then we play our card

I meant that, I really did!  :D
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 13, 2013, 09:12:55 AM
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 13, 2013, 10:27:26 AM
Yeah except were not playing it were just tossing it to avoid the germany wipe out, then we play our card

I meant that, I really did!  :D

Lol.... I think we're getting the hang of it I'm not sure
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 13, 2013, 10:32:46 AM
Come on worthless American types! What 3+Ops card are you coughing up?
Or are you going to finally let us re-unite Germany under our watchful care and guidance?

The forces of the USSR would really prefer for you to try and break the blockade.....  8)

Comrade Barthheartovich
General Secretary of Red Army

We're just deciding on the 'fk you' card or the 'blow it out of your ass card'
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 13, 2013, 10:39:31 AM
Tch, tch, tch...manners, Imperialist...manners!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 13, 2013, 11:50:37 AM
Tch, tch, tch...manners, Imperialist...manners!

Up your hoc with a каучук кишка́!



 :D
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on December 13, 2013, 11:52:14 AM
Such undiplomatic displays... next thing you know they'll be banging in their desk with their shoes.  :o
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 13, 2013, 11:58:25 AM
Will make good propaganda for Pravda.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 13, 2013, 01:59:51 PM
Hmm. When I translated those three words from English to Russian they were pretty benign. The other way around, not so much…  ???
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 13, 2013, 02:09:49 PM
lmao - i got rubber hose
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 13, 2013, 02:26:33 PM
It's a classic line from the 70's US TV comedy 'Welcome back, Kotter", uttered by one 'Vinnie Barbarino' (AKA a young John Travolta).



Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 13, 2013, 02:59:07 PM
Ooo! Ooo! Mistuh Kottah! Mistuh Kottah!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 13, 2013, 07:37:15 PM
Are we waiting on Bob to agree to throw out the Norad card to counter the event played by Team USSR gentlemen?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 14, 2013, 01:28:25 AM
We are.... I'll chase him down
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 14, 2013, 05:08:23 AM
Hopefully he's not out supervising the atomic bomb drop tests on Bikini Island.  :)
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 14, 2013, 05:22:32 AM
Sorry Chaps - have had a lot going on atm and will be out for most of today/tonight.

Please continue with above plan.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 14, 2013, 05:23:14 AM
Everything ok, Bob?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 14, 2013, 05:25:04 AM
Yeah thanks mate - just family stuff and then out for the company Christmas bash tonight. Just nipped on here to try and catch up a bit.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 14, 2013, 05:31:22 AM
Whew! Well, have fun. Don't deck any rude shoppers this afternoon and do have a pint or wee dram or two at the party this evening. :D  UCG and I will Grog OnTM  here in the meantime.


Gary, I think we have a boardroom majority decision then.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 14, 2013, 05:56:01 AM
Ok, if Bob is agreement on tossing the NORAD card to prevent losing all the IP's in W. Germany, I'll play that out when I get home in a bit.  My son is going to be an extra in a movie that Adam Sandler is filming in town and I have to have him dropped off on site at 8a.m. this morning.  He's all excited.  I remember being an extra in a movie years ago.  A fun day of filming.  Too bad the movie was a flop that went straight to video.  :)

Oh, and you guys will be up next right again with your next round so you might start (continue) the chatter about that play.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: Ubercat on December 14, 2013, 01:34:04 PM
Wow. They are really taking their time. At this point it can't just be because they have no good plays after we screwed them with Blockade.  ;D

I hope that everything is OK.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 14, 2013, 04:28:07 PM
Undercovergeek was snippy earlier but it wasn't mean-spirited, it was totally in character, so I'm hoping we hosed them good.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: GJK on December 14, 2013, 04:39:48 PM
They are just waiting to hear from Bob to confirm the play that they've selected for the W. Germany situation and for their next Action Round.  I gather that some from their team are on one side of the pond from one another so that is making coordinating things a bit of a challenge.  Next game (if/when?) we need to group teams by timezones and/or online availability.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 14, 2013, 06:18:20 PM
Huh. Thought I saw Bawb on earlier today...ah well.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 15, 2013, 05:36:36 AM
good luck with the filming

so we toss the Norad card and immediately play the test ban one? i think we agree

play it as ops and put 4 influence in the middle east - just need to pick the grounds
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 16, 2013, 05:41:01 AM
are we stuck - is it our go?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 16, 2013, 05:17:51 PM
Guys, what are your recommendations as to the ideal M.E. recipients of our precious points?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 16, 2013, 05:45:28 PM
Guys, what are your recommendations as to the ideal M.E. recipients of our precious points?

we dont need to strengthen anything 'behind' us - egypt and lebanon? theres no lines to connect them to what russia has so somewhere more front line? im concerned israel only has 1 on it too
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 16, 2013, 07:20:27 PM
Sorry folks but I've been under the weather the past couple of days.  I'll try and update the game some time tomorrow if I have the energy.  Sorry for the delay.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 16, 2013, 08:05:56 PM
No problem, Gary. We've been having fun pretending that the Westerners are scared of us Russkies.  ;D
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 16, 2013, 08:09:46 PM
*rude gesture*  "Yeah, I gotcha proletariat revolution right here, Baby!"
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 16, 2013, 08:18:15 PM
(http://t.qkme.me/353hcq.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 17, 2013, 06:14:18 AM
Sorry folks but I've been under the weather the past couple of days.  I'll try and update the game some time tomorrow if I have the energy.  Sorry for the delay.

no worries - get well soon GJK

Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 17, 2013, 08:37:54 PM
Guys, again, sorry for the delay.  Team USA will be throwing out the NORAD card in response to your Blockade card. 

(http://twilightstrategy.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/norad.jpg?w=640)

Team USA is on the clock for play in the next round.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: Barthheart on December 17, 2013, 10:28:53 PM
So..... China card in Asia this round in prep for Asia Scoring next round?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 18, 2013, 05:48:25 AM
NORAD was a throw-away event card for them, since DEFCON is nowhere near 2 right now, nor will it get there this turn. I'm assuming though that the card gets reshuffled into the deck. No matter. They gave up 3 OPS which wasn't the ideal ending to our hoped-for People's German Democratic Soviet Socialist Republic. So too ends my dream of a new dacha in the Obersalzburg. At least, for now.  8)

Not sure how this will affect their card play except now they're out 3 OPS for whatever decadent plans they had in mind. Let's see what they do next before committing to the China Card, but as Comrade Ubercat had indicated before, this still looks like a good plan to follow until they throw us an inferior capitalist wrench:

Quote
Round 4: The China card. 5 Ops in Asia. We grab Pakistan, Malaysia, and Laos/Cambodia. That will increase our scoring by another VP, and also grab us 2 more SE Asian countries. They won't help us in this scoring, but when SE Asia scoring card comes out later, we'll be looking good.

Round 5: Asia scoring. Mop up some nice VP!

Round 6: Five Year Plan for 3 Ops. We can figure out later what to do with these points. The important thing is, the event will make us discard one of THEIR cards. All we'll have left are CIA created and Containment. The event will fire but who cares? They'll either get 1 extra Op for their final card (assuming they play it for Ops) or they'll get to see our (almost empty) hand and use 1 Op. Their (wimpy) event will fire so the card will leave the game and we won't have to worry about it coming back when it may do more damage to us.

Their reaction in Round 4 after our playing the China Card will most likely be to put Influence in Asia, but I don't think that will be a big deal compared to our revolutionary might! They won't be able to dent our VP scoring too much, I don't think.

For the Five Year Plan OPS, I'm thinking of reinforcing our presence in either Eastern Europe or the Middle East. If they haven't played a ME Scoring Card by that point, shoring ourselves up there might be a wise course of action.

Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: Ubercat on December 18, 2013, 07:30:53 AM
Oh, wow. I didn't realize that the optional cards were included. I need to factor those into my strategery.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 18, 2013, 04:44:13 PM
Looking at map I'd say 1 in Saudi and 3 in Israel - these are the important battleground states that Gjk mentioned
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 18, 2013, 05:17:11 PM
Haven't heard from Bob for a few days. You out there man? Hope all is OK...
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 20, 2013, 04:29:55 AM
What are we thinking guys for your next round of play?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 20, 2013, 05:22:53 AM
Let's go with UCG's recommendation. Test ban card, then 1 point on the House of Saud and 3 on Israel.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 20, 2013, 07:12:58 AM
cool lets go with that and hope Sir Bob is ok
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 20, 2013, 10:48:57 AM
cool lets go with that and hope Sir Bob is ok

Yeah, Bob, if you read this drop a quick note if you can.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 20, 2013, 01:43:06 PM
he's aliiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiive!!!!

and concurs with our awesome decision
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 20, 2013, 05:13:53 PM
Where?!? Where?!?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 20, 2013, 05:27:10 PM
Every year, I took a holiday. I went to Florence, there's this cafe, on the banks of the Arno. Every fine evening, I'd sit there and order a Fernet Branca. I had this fantasy, that I would look across the tables and I'd see Bob there, with a wife and maybe a couple of kids. Bob wouldn't say anything to me, nor me to him. But we'd both know that he'd made it, that he was happy. I never wanted him to come back to Gotham. I always knew there was nothing here for him, except pain and tragedy. And I wanted something more for him than that. I still do.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 20, 2013, 05:34:02 PM
Another movie I have yet to see no doubt. I used to wish for a life. Now I just wish for free time.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 20, 2013, 05:39:07 PM
lol hes cool i caught him just coming onto Steam earlier - Bob used to work on the docks, union's been on strike and he's down on his luck...it's tough, so tough. Gina works the diner all day, working for her Bob, she brings home her pay for love, for love. He says he's got to hold on to what he's got cause it doesn't make a difference if he makes it or not they've got each other and that's a lot
for love - he'll give it a shot
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 20, 2013, 05:41:19 PM
That sounds like a lyric from a Bon Jovi song…  ???
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 20, 2013, 05:44:28 PM
sorry, got carried away there - hes cool - busy week, he'll be on in a bit, brought him upto speed on our awesome strategy, he nodded in Montgomery like approval of the plan - its a go
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 20, 2013, 07:47:14 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R3_USA_News.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 20, 2013, 07:49:34 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R3_USA_Event.jpg)

Team USA has opted to play the "Nuclear Test Ban" card for the OPs points.  They placed 1 point in Saudi Arabia and 3 points in Israel.  This has given the US "Dominance" in the Middle East Region.  The card will be shuffled back in to the deck at a later date since this event was not triggered.

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R3_USA_ME.jpg)

Team USSR is on the clock for Action Round 4.

Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 20, 2013, 07:50:25 PM
Ok guys, finally got around to updating this round in the main forum.  Below is your hand as it now stands:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/US_Hand_Turn_1_AR3_q3asd2342.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 21, 2013, 02:11:35 AM
Woooohoooo all your deserts are belong to us
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 21, 2013, 05:47:26 AM
Rock the Casbah!
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: Barthheart on December 21, 2013, 05:54:46 AM
Wow interesting move by the US! I think they are just reacting to our plays in the ME and that they don't have the ME score card.

We should continue with Operation Red Asia.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on December 21, 2013, 12:51:46 PM
Well done gents - I'm trying to catch up with events.

Gary - sorry to hear you not been feeling good. Hope you're OK now.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 21, 2013, 08:55:06 PM
Well done gents - I'm trying to catch up with events.

Gary - sorry to hear you not been feeling good. Hope you're OK now.

Thanks Bob.  I feel ok but I still have this persistent cough that everyone at work has. It's the kind that you take some medicine right before bed and then in about 3-4 hours after it wears off, you starting having a coughing fit and then you don't sleep for the rest of the night.  It'll pass though.  Glad that you're ok too, we were all worried about ya!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 22, 2013, 01:10:52 PM
Imperialists are bribing the camel-men! Must to provide downtrodden masses with glorious revolution!
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 22, 2013, 01:12:19 PM
I agree...we should stick with the plan as indicated by Comrade Ubercat. Asia!
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 4
Post by: Barthheart on December 22, 2013, 03:49:47 PM
How was yer drive Comrade?

At the end of my vacation at Dacha Key Colony Beach I'll have to make two 14 hours drives then a 5 hours drive to finally get home.....  :P

You gonna start a new thread fer round 5?

Title: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 23, 2013, 06:58:36 PM
Sorry, comrades. Am alive and well in Phoenix after a long drive and a couple of busy days. This morning we did a hot air balloon ride and there's something pretty amazing about standing in a glorified laundry basket 5000 feet in the air.  ;D

I will try to check in once a day for the next couple of weeks to stay on top of this. So we are playing China Card this turn?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: Ubercat on December 23, 2013, 09:23:40 PM
Yes, the China card is my vote. We can put 2 IP's in Thailand and 2 in Pakistan. The 5th could grab Laos/Cambodia or make Pakistan more secure with 3. This would net us 7 VP when we score Asia. I'm tempted to give up one Ops point by not using them all in Asia, however. The Americans are in a position to grab 3 VP if they score the ME. If we put one point into Iran, we'll break their domination and things will be tied in the ME. No points either way! We'd only have to give up 1 VP in Asia to cost them 3 in the ME. Of course, they may be able to grab Egypt with their next play and regain Domination, but Egypt is risky for the US early in the game.

Maybe we should just stick with the plan. 2 IP in Thailand, 3 in Pakistan. Yeah, that's my vote.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: Barthheart on December 24, 2013, 04:43:28 AM
Da Comrades, China card for play in Asia.
2 in Pakistan
2 in Thailand
1 in Indonesia maybe to block the Philippines?

Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 24, 2013, 08:24:50 AM
I like denying the West the Middle East. If the return on investment is more in our favor then that's a good plan. But I cannot fault 2 in Thailand and 3 in Pakistan.

I'm good with that for expediency unless Comrade Barthheartovich wishes to discuss the Philippine strategy more.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: Ubercat on December 24, 2013, 08:39:46 AM
We can't place in Indonesia as we have no connection to it ATM. You need an adjacency to any country you place in, and it has to have existed before placing any influence that turn. I'd vote for adding the odd IP to Pakistan or Laos/Cambodia. Pakistan would be the better pick to make it harder for the Americans to coup, but if they have the Indo-Pakistani war card then it wouldn't matter how much influence we had there. They could get it all if the die rolls their way.

Let's give Comrade Banzai-Cat the choice on this one.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: Barthheart on December 24, 2013, 09:01:34 AM
DOH! Trying to be too cagey and missed that we are not next to Indo.

So I agree with 3 in Pak.

Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: Ubercat on December 24, 2013, 09:29:09 AM
OK, then it looks like our final decision on the next card play is the China card.

We'll place 3 of our available 5 IP's (all Asian) in Pakistan, and 2 in Thailand.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 24, 2013, 10:26:10 AM
Da, is good plan.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: Barthheart on December 24, 2013, 10:33:26 AM
Da.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: GJK on December 24, 2013, 10:55:17 AM
OK, then it looks like our final decision on the next card play is the China card.

We'll place 3 of our available 5 IP's (all Asian) in Pakistan, and 2 in Thailand.

Roger that.  I will process the turn later in the day.  Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: GJK on December 24, 2013, 12:59:02 PM
I just recalled but because of the Team USA play of "Vietnam Revolts" for the Event, you guys get an extra OP if you spend it all in ASIA, so that would be six (6) total.  Where would you like to place that sixth point?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: Ubercat on December 24, 2013, 02:14:54 PM
I hate to say this, but I'm pretty certain that there's a hard ceiling of 5 Ops points for any card play. I'll check the rules.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: Barthheart on December 24, 2013, 02:36:05 PM
I also thought that it would only count if we played them all in SE Asia not Asia general......
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: GJK on December 24, 2013, 04:28:32 PM
The 5 max rings a bell though I don't see it offhand in the rules but for sure they all would of had to of gone in to S.E. Asia so you wouln't get the sixth irregardless so I'll finish the turn as it was planned.

Actually, it can go to six if all are played in S.E. Asia....
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 24, 2013, 04:45:46 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R4_Soviet_News.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 24, 2013, 04:51:09 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R4_Soviet_Action.jpg)

Team USSR has elected to play the "China Card" for the OPs (all that you can do) to start Round 4. 

They have placed 3 OP's in Pakistan and 2 OP's in Thailand, giving Team USSR "Dominance" in Asia.

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R4_Asia.jpg)

The "China Card" is passed to Team USA but it will remain inverted until the beginning of Turn 2.

The full map as it stands now can be seen: http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R4_Soviet_Map.jpg (http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R4_Soviet_Map.jpg)

Happy holidays, Merry Christmas to all in this pre-apocolyptic Cold War world! 
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 5
Post by: GJK on December 24, 2013, 04:52:48 PM
Comrades, this is hand as it stands going in to Round 5:
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Soviet_Hand_T1_R4_43534sff3.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on December 24, 2013, 05:14:11 PM
Merry Christmas Gary, and thanks for running the game.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 24, 2013, 05:22:38 PM
Merry Christmas Gary, and thanks for running the game.

merry christmas to all playing - please hold while we come up with something suitably evil to respond with
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 24, 2013, 05:24:11 PM
ok we can only play the formosa card - the other 2 are majorly good cards for the Russians - GJK can we get a spot of advice on dumping these cards in the space race?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 24, 2013, 05:27:12 PM
Yup - can't see any other option, unless we throw Fidel at the Ruskies?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 24, 2013, 06:18:57 PM
You don't want to give up Cuba and things aren't looking good in Asia so Taiwan is out.  Gamecon isn't good for you either.  I'd definitely say dump something on the Space Race track.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 24, 2013, 06:29:18 PM
You don't want to give up Cuba and things aren't looking good in Asia so Taiwan is out.  Gamecon isn't good for you either.  I'd definitely say dump something on the Space Race track.

Do we take that as a turn option instead of playing for ops and events?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 24, 2013, 06:37:53 PM
Merry Christmas, even to the imperialist drones!   :D
Title: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 24, 2013, 06:39:16 PM
For the collaborations of AR6.

Merry Christmas, comrades!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 24, 2013, 06:54:45 PM
Merry Christmas, even to the imperialist drones!   :D

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-vfT3p6qF-tE/Uqx5MRMzz3I/AAAAAAAAOSk/WwQhNsffazg/s1600/SantaDrone.jpg)
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 24, 2013, 06:59:25 PM
Ad Astra, it would seem.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 24, 2013, 08:18:34 PM
Yes, that is an option that you have during the turn.  How many times per turn that you can do it depends on how far along the Space Race track you are (at this point, only once per turn).  It's your "safety valve"; the safe way to dump a card that you don't want to have triggered at this time.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 25, 2013, 01:16:08 AM
Ok then men - dump a russian card or formosa for ops and strengthen our position somewhere
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 25, 2013, 04:31:50 AM
Lets go for the ops then guys (I think).
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on December 25, 2013, 04:35:00 AM
^LOL, ROFL and LMAO!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 25, 2013, 06:08:49 AM
What he said!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 25, 2013, 07:00:55 AM
Ok where do we want 2 influence? Uncontested south America or southeast asia
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 25, 2013, 07:05:29 AM
I'm thinking S. Korea. We need a speed bump there in case the Hello Kitties go all 38th Parallel on us.


EDIT: We also need to think about some MilOps before playing to the end of the hand.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 25, 2013, 09:48:20 AM
Agreed Stagger. We do need to try and keep some influence in part of the world.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 25, 2013, 10:25:53 AM
Cool let's go south Korea for two and then look at a coup somewhere exciting
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 25, 2013, 11:35:39 AM
At defcon 2 we can't putch anyone around in Europe. How about Iran? I don't think we have to be next door to attempt a coup as long as the Borschteratti have at least 1 influence point incountry already. We would have to roll higher than 4 (twice Iran's stability value) minus our coup points.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 25, 2013, 01:01:29 PM
I'm good for that
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 25, 2013, 01:21:49 PM
(http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX?233@@.1dcfda60/14978!enclosure=.1dda6b1d)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on December 25, 2013, 01:28:03 PM
 ???  Did we skip over a few turns? I know it's inevitable but I thought it would take a few more years before Occidens Invictus.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 25, 2013, 01:55:23 PM
Interesting. lets give it a go - as long as I don't have to roll the dice.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Ubercat on December 27, 2013, 07:26:35 PM
I guess the Americans are afraid of us again.  8)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on December 28, 2013, 02:22:27 AM
Pfft... why? Because you now own some paddy fields?

Waiting for gjk to give us the nod
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 28, 2013, 07:03:25 AM
Sorry guys, trying to figure out exactly what your next move is...can you detail it for me please?  Thanks!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 28, 2013, 08:34:33 AM
Sorry guys, trying to figure out exactly what your next move is...can you detail it for me please?  Thanks!

Is attempting a coup done using ops points from a card or from military ops?

Basically in the next turn were looking at playing a 2 ops card to place 2 units of influence somewhere and then declare a coup, again somewhere..... or are we talking about 2 separate turns here?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 28, 2013, 09:28:02 AM
Going back a few posts- are we stuck with undesirable cards? If so do we then dump on the Space Race, losing the option to place influence anywhere?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 28, 2013, 09:29:46 AM
Yeah the 2 Soviet cards need dropping on the space race whether we do that now and play for influence at the end or influence now and space race later... I'm easy
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 28, 2013, 09:41:23 AM
So if we don't have to do that now then I like propping up S. K. or trying to flip Iran. Of the two only Iran gets us military cred, right?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 28, 2013, 09:55:43 AM
In total agreement I just don't know if that's all doable in one turn
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 28, 2013, 10:15:27 AM
We can only do one of them right now. S.K. is a sure thing, Iran would require a die roll of 3 or higher (if I understand the coup mechanics).
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 28, 2013, 12:26:50 PM
Then let's SK now in case we lose anymore ground in Asia
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 28, 2013, 12:31:35 PM
Agreed.


Whatcha reckon there, English Bob? Head 'em off at the Pass.. err, Yalu?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 28, 2013, 12:44:27 PM
Agreed.


Whatcha reckon there, English Bob? Head 'em off at the Pass.. err, Yalu?

I'm cool with SK.

ps - hope you don't mind me pinching your words for my sig!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 28, 2013, 12:49:58 PM
LOL!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 28, 2013, 02:02:35 PM
So you're choices are basically this:

Play any of the cards for the OPs points.  Place those OPs in S. Korea (or wherever, within the rules limitations) OR attempt a Coup with those OPs points (you can't do both). Note that if the card is a Soviet red star card, then the event WILL trigger after you place your OPs.

Or

Dump one of the two Soviet red star cards on the Space Race and hope that you advance.  Even if you don't the event will NOT trigger (at this time, the card will shuffle back in to the deck).

Or

Play the one US white star card that you have left (Formosan Resolution) but note that next turn you will very much want to follow that up by placing OPs in Taiwan because now Taiwan will be counted as a battleground country for when the Asia Scoring card is played (whenever that may be).  Again note though, if you play OPs *next* turn to shore up Taiwan, the Event will trigger if it is a Soviet Red Star card.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 28, 2013, 02:29:07 PM
Blimey..... but I think we're looking at playing the Formosa card but for the ops and place 2 influence in south Korea

The turn after a Russian card into space race

Turn after Russian card into space race
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 28, 2013, 03:36:00 PM
After the Formosa card is played, which of the red star cards will hurt us least when it's event triggers, assuming we choose to take our lumps and gain the points to shore up Taiwan? The other card we would then shoot into space.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 28, 2013, 03:51:57 PM
Ooooo there's a question
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 28, 2013, 04:12:41 PM
My thoughts:

 1) Play 'Formosa' and shore up S.K.

Then-
 2) Play Cuba, and put the points on Taiwan ( we'll just have to worry about Latin America later (Besides, Commies pro'ally don't speak Latin anyway  :D).
 3) Shoot the last card into orbit to keep the Pink Panthers from adding influence to any E. Euro countries.

Though not necessarily in that order depending on what happens after 'Formosa'...
 
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 28, 2013, 04:37:32 PM
My thoughts:

 1) Play 'Formosa' and shore up S.K.

Then-
 2) Play Cuba, and put the points on Taiwan ( we'll just have to worry about Latin America later (Besides, Commies pro'ally don't speak Latin anyway  :D).
 3) Shoot the last card into orbit to keep the Pink Panthers from adding influence to any E. Euro countries.

Though not necessarily in that order depending on what happens after 'Formosa'...

Yeah of the 2 cards that's the best option.... what's the worse case scenario in Cuba? Can't see map from here.... are we out of the region without it? If not fine and just sort it out with the next hand of cards
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 28, 2013, 04:44:01 PM
Here's the map right now:

http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R4_Soviet_Map.jpg

There's no Red in the Americas at all right now. We have 1 point in Panama.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on December 28, 2013, 04:50:21 PM
Unleash plan staggerwing
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 28, 2013, 05:50:33 PM
Yee-haa!!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on December 29, 2013, 04:01:37 AM
That sounds good - affirmative on Plan Staggerwing.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 30, 2013, 05:31:32 PM
Ok, so Formosa card for the OPs, both OPs in S. Korea?  Working up the turn now!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on December 30, 2013, 05:36:14 PM
Yes. "Keep 'em guessing" and all that.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 30, 2013, 05:51:22 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R4_USA_News.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on December 30, 2013, 05:54:56 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R4_USA_Action.jpg)

Team USA has elected to play the "Formosan Resolution" card for the OPs points (2) and have placed BOTH in South Korea.  This gives the USA CONTROL of South Korea.  Team USSR remains DOMINANT in the ASIAN region however:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R4_USA_Asia.jpg)


The "Formosan Resolution" Event was NOT triggered and so that card will be shuffled back in to the deck.

The complete map can be seen at http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Twilight_Struggle_Map.jpg (to save space on my web server, I am just going to use this same filename for the map from now on, so whenever that link is clicked, the most current version of the map will be displayed).

Team USSR is on the clock for Round 5 of Turn 1.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on December 30, 2013, 05:56:01 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R4_USA_Hand_23543452345.jpg)

Gentlemen, this is your hand going in to Round 5 of Turn 1.  That is the "China Card" that is inverted and thus unplayable at this time.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: Ubercat on December 30, 2013, 07:39:48 PM
OK, it's time to score Asia. They've just managed to cost us 1 VP, so good for them. We need to score Asia and then play Five Year Plan in the final round.

All agreed? Asia Score card next?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: Ubercat on December 30, 2013, 07:49:49 PM
I just realized that we're one round ahead of where we should be. The round 1 thread should have been titled "headline", as the first card we play each turn is the headliner, and not technically a round. This thread should be the round 5 thread, as six is the final round and we still have one card play after this one. Make sense? If it doesn't, check the action round track on the map. It shows that there should only be 6 action rounds for the first 3 turns and then 7 thereafter.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: Barthheart on December 31, 2013, 04:42:45 AM
Score Asia, Da.

Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: GJK on December 31, 2013, 08:07:36 AM
I just realized that we're one round ahead of where we should be. The round 1 thread should have been titled "headline", as the first card we play each turn is the headliner, and not technically a round. This thread should be the round 5 thread, as six is the final round and we still have one card play after this one. Make sense? If it doesn't, check the action round track on the map. It shows that there should only be 6 action rounds for the first 3 turns and then 7 thereafter.

This is correct; we've just entered Round 5.

So Asia Scoring for this round for you guys?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: BanzaiCat on December 31, 2013, 09:16:37 AM
Yes sir, that's our move.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: GJK on December 31, 2013, 10:23:05 AM
Cool - I'll work up the round when I get home later.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 02, 2014, 05:39:49 AM
thanks GJK - only just saw this - hope you had a good new year, and thanks for your continued help playing this game - almost ready for a real life board game purchase and some vassal for this
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on January 02, 2014, 05:41:16 AM
bring it on motherbiatches
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 02, 2014, 05:45:12 AM
Yes, thanks indeed Gary. Trying to keep us all on track must be a real PITA ( :D ) so your help is much appreciated.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 02, 2014, 07:03:09 AM
Happy New Years to you guys as well and thanks; I'm enjoying this as much as you all are.  TS is a solid game with lots of decision making.  Plus it's easy to teach and play.  Def. pick up a copy if you think that you might have somebody that would be interested in playing it with you.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 02, 2014, 07:56:26 AM
im hoping theres a vibrant MP community that are just circling for new opponents!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on January 02, 2014, 06:46:14 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R5_USSR_News.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on January 02, 2014, 06:48:59 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R5_USSR_Action.jpg)

Team USSR has played the "ASIA SCORING" card for this round:

*** Soviet plays Asia Scoring Event ***
* U.S.S.R. has Domination in Asia for 7 VPs.
* U.S.S.R. Controls 3 Battleground countries in Asia.
* U.S. has Presence in Asia for 3 VPs.
* U.S. Controls 1 Battleground countries in Asia.
* Soviets gain 6 VPs.
* Soviet changes VPs to 8 Soviet Victory Points.

The full map as it stands now can be seen at: http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Twilight_Struggle_Map.jpg
Team USA is on the clock for Round 5 of Turn 1.


Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: GJK on January 02, 2014, 06:51:24 PM
Gentlemen, this is your hand going in to Round 6 (final round of turn):

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R5_USSR_Hand_32452123412.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on January 02, 2014, 06:58:59 PM
booooooooooooooooooooooooooo
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 02, 2014, 06:59:40 PM
spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Ubercat on January 02, 2014, 07:31:41 PM
Hey, at least be glad that you cost us 1 VP with your last land grab in Asia!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on January 02, 2014, 07:33:27 PM
Have to give you a chance!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 02, 2014, 08:28:26 PM
Did the Kremlin Kitties make a move?

We still need some warmonger action to limit the free points they would otherwise get at turn's end.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 03, 2014, 02:05:14 AM
They pulled points scoring in Asia..... hence the build up there and took 7 vps.....more if we hadn't done south korea
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 03, 2014, 04:43:27 AM
So, do we try to flip Iran first? Any other targets that could benefit from a change in leadership instead?  Or do we go Above and Beyond?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 03, 2014, 04:53:34 AM
i dont think we can play our Russian cards at all - they need to be confined to outer space ASAP
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 06, 2014, 04:45:19 AM
One of the cards you'll have to play for OPs, you only get one Space Race dump at this point.  You get a 2nd Space Race dump off option once you've progressed so far down the Space Race track.

And yes, you are very short on MilOps points spent this turn so you'll take a hit on more VP's unless you all do a Coup (or it may take two, I'd have to check).
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 06, 2014, 06:51:49 AM
We will have to play the Castro card then.... the other one is a nightmare for us.... let's coup something then!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on January 06, 2014, 06:55:06 AM
OK - what are our coup options?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 06, 2014, 09:55:56 AM
something not ours, but next to us (linked to us)
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 06, 2014, 04:15:55 PM
Actually a Coup can be attempted in *any* country that the other side has IP's in.  You only have to be adjacent to a country (or already in that country) if you wish to place IP's in it.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on January 06, 2014, 04:18:43 PM
Oh, right! Thanks Gary - back to the map, gents.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 06, 2014, 04:46:25 PM
well, theyve already got the VPs for Asia so lets not go there - are there any 1 or 2 IP territories they own that would be useful to coup?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 06, 2014, 04:49:07 PM
or lets try east germany - they have 3 there but if we reduce them to 2 they dont control east germany any more
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on January 06, 2014, 04:55:50 PM
Interesting thought, Geek. I'd go for that if we can, although I guess they will be very sensitive about us trying anything in EG. That should throw the cat among the pigeons  :)
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 06, 2014, 05:12:50 PM
im all for throwing cats, especially at pigeons!!

gets us the initiative back
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 06, 2014, 05:14:14 PM
The roll odds need to be favorable. We have to roll higher than twice the country stability points minus the ones we apply, IIRC.

East Germany is a 3 so we would need to roll higher than 6 - 2= 4 to succeed. If we pick a country with 2 then we would only have to roll higher than 2.


Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 06, 2014, 05:21:38 PM
what determines what we apply? ops points?

for instance East Germany has 3 of their IP, so we need a 6 minus our points?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 06, 2014, 05:41:42 PM
That's how I grokk it anyway. We would have to roll a 5 or 6 which is 2:1 odds against us. We still get the milops points however.

We may want to whip up a quick list of countries we could go for and their odds. I'll have a look a little bit later after my kids are settled for the eve.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 06, 2014, 05:49:06 PM
good man - is there anything we can add to the mix to bring the die roll down? you know, to like 1 or 2?  ;D
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 06, 2014, 08:50:12 PM
Here's a list of countries w/ less than 3 stability where the Red Fur have influence:

Iran 2
Pakistan 2
Thailand 2
Vietnam 1
Syria 2

Iran, Syria are the only non-Asian possibilities. Vietnam would be an easy target if we did want to hit Asia and shake up the next turn.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 07, 2014, 02:41:54 AM
Here's a list of countries w/ less than 3 stability where the Red Fur have influence:

Iran 2
Pakistan 2
Thailand 2
Vietnam 1
Syria 2

Iran, Syria are the only non-Asian possibilities. Vietnam would be an easy target if we did want to hit Asia and shake up the next turn.

Syria is the battleground tile - lets go for that
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 07, 2014, 05:59:06 AM
Syria it is.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on January 07, 2014, 06:02:01 AM
Go
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 07, 2014, 06:10:01 AM
so turn summary is play Castro and take the hit in cuba and then coup Syria?

can i ask a silly question of you guys then - since none of us are really present in central america allowing Russia in there may allow him to start throwing loads of ops and IP in there - should we play castro (which we have to do) and then coup Cuba so he doesnt take it?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 07, 2014, 07:14:02 AM
Are we waiting on the Imperialists to complete their AR?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: Barthheart on January 07, 2014, 07:20:16 AM
EDIT ***
Never mind I need to read the rules better....  :P
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on January 07, 2014, 07:21:15 AM
Da, silly Americans are too busy wringing their hands in fear to make any political decisions.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on January 07, 2014, 07:22:55 AM
Americans are busy building launch pad for great expedition - shhhhhh
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 07, 2014, 08:23:35 AM
If I understand the question correctly- the OPs points from the Castro card would go first, so you would play those OPs; a coup perhaps somewhere but it wouldn't be in Cuba because the event that places IP's in Cuba for Russia won't trigger until after you've played the card for the OPs points.  You could however Coup somewhere else this turn, let Castro event trigger and then Coup attempt in Cuba for the 6th (final) round. 
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 07, 2014, 08:26:10 AM
agree with everything, except surely we can only generate ops points for the final turn by playing the last card, and that cant possibly happen with the card of doom!!!

So this turn then, lets play Castro and coup Syria - what would the dice modifiers be GJK?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: Ubercat on January 07, 2014, 12:01:46 PM
Maybe you should attend this school.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 07, 2014, 03:43:44 PM
As Comrade Ubercat put it previously:

Quote
Round 6: Five Year Plan for 3 Ops. We can figure out later what to do with these points. The important thing is, the event will make us discard one of THEIR cards. All we'll have left are CIA created and Containment. The event will fire but who cares? They'll either get 1 extra Op for their final card (assuming they play it for Ops) or they'll get to see our (almost empty) hand and use 1 Op. Their (wimpy) event will fire so the card will leave the game and we won't have to worry about it coming back when it may do more damage to us.

Since we don't have control over which card we'd have left, there's not much of a debate at this point as the ball would be in the opulent yet decadent Westerner's court at that time. So we need to decide what we do with the 3 OPS points.

I think we have three choices:

(1) Spend the 3 OPS to put influence in:
     (a) Europe - 1 in E. Germany, 1 in Poland, and the third in Spain/Portugal;
     (b) the Middle East - 2 in Jordan, 1 in Libya
     This is of course open to debate.

(2) Perform three Realignment Rolls.
     (a) Focus on W. Germany. Since nobody has an adjacent country, it would be a straight die-roll challenge. If we roll better than them, the difference is
          removed from their Influence in W. Germany. Why? Well, why not. That might make them panic if we cut them down in Europe. If the first roll fails, we have
          two other rolls we can do; we can roll for the same country more than once if we wish!

(3) Go for a Coup Attempt in Jordan. If we gained control of Jordan we'd have better leverage vis-a-vis Israel and Saudi Arabia should we wish to pursue Realignment Rolls in the future. This would satisfy our remaining Military Operations point so the imperialists would receive no VP.

Keep in mind the West has not yet performed Military Operations, so I expect them to pull a coup somewhere. Otherwise, they're looking at coughing up some VP at the end of this turn. I honestly don't understand the rules fully despite reading them - I'm not sure if we pulled a coup off if that would raise the DEFCON to 3 and therfore if they perform no Military Ops, we'd get 3 VPs? Is that right?

There's also always the Space Race. Although I don't think my comrades in the Kremlin are all that hot on that option. I think we have more viable options this AR.

Anyway, I'm open to anything, just throwing some ideas around for our Five-Year Plan card play.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 07, 2014, 05:40:58 PM
So Syria has a Stability Number of 2.  That doubled is 4. The Castro card is worth 2 OPs so it's a die roll +2.  You need a 5 or a 6  for a successful coup.  However, the USSR has 2 IP's in Syria so you need to roll a natural 4 to remove the 2 IP's, a 5 to add one of your own or a 6 to add 2 of your own:
(Roll)+2Stabilityx2USSR IPNet Result
(3)542-1 USSR IP
(4)642-2 USSR IP
(5)742-2 USSR IP/+1 USA IP
(6)842-2 USSR IP/+2 USA IP
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 07, 2014, 05:42:44 PM
How does a region scoring card get played? Is it just dealt out like any other and then played for event or points, depending on whether it favors or hurts the card holder? Would the Europe card already be part of the current hands? If so the CominternCats must have it.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 07, 2014, 06:15:20 PM
There's 2 whole decks we haven't seen yet - new set for mid war and late war
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: Ubercat on January 07, 2014, 06:19:44 PM
Since we don't have control over which card we'd have left, there's not much of a debate at this point as the ball would be in the opulent yet decadent Westerner's court at that time. So we need to decide what we do with the 3 OPS points.

I think we have three choices:

(1) Spend the 3 OPS to put influence in:
     (a) Europe - 1 in E. Germany, 1 in Poland, and the third in Spain/Portugal;
     (b) the Middle East - 2 in Jordan, 1 in Libya
     This is of course open to debate.

Spain/Portugal and Libya are not options as we aren't next to them. Jordan would be very inefficient as we'd have to burn 2 Ops to place a single IP. The relevant rules are 6.1.1 and 6.1.2 on page 6 of the rulebook.

Quote
(2) Perform three Realignment Rolls.
     (a) Focus on W. Germany. Since nobody has an adjacent country....


Did we lose E. Germany??  :o  ;D

Quote
it would be a straight die-roll challenge. If we roll better than them, the difference is
          removed from their Influence in W. Germany. Why? Well, why not. That might make them panic if we cut them down in Europe. If the first roll fails, we have
          two other rolls we can do; we can roll for the same country more than once if we wish!

Realigning W. Germany would be a pretty good idea, especially since we'd have a +1 DRM for having E. Germany while the Americans have no adjacent countries. Unfortunately for us, Def Con is too high for any coup or realignment rolls in Europe. (Check the Def Con status track on the board)

Quote
(3) Go for a Coup Attempt in Jordan. If we gained control of Jordan we'd have better leverage vis-a-vis Israel and Saudi Arabia should we wish to pursue Realignment Rolls in the future. This would satisfy our remaining Military Operations point so the imperialists would receive no VP.

Couping Jordan isn't too bad an idea for the reasons you give. We've already satisfied our Mil Ops requirements for the turn so no issue there. If the Americans don't get some Mil Ops, we'll grab 4 more VP.

Quote
Keep in mind the West has not yet performed Military Operations, so I expect them to pull a coup somewhere. Otherwise, they're looking at coughing up some VP at the end of this turn. I honestly don't understand the rules fully despite reading them - I'm not sure if we pulled a coup off if that would raise the DEFCON to 3 and therfore if they perform no Military Ops, we'd get 3 VPs? Is that right?

We don't want Def Con to go up any more. If it rises to 3, we'll only get 3 VP instead of 4. And if they're the ones who made it go up by couping, we may not get ANY VP's.

My preference is to finish grabbing Iran and throw an extra IP there since it's an easy country to coup and we don't want them to grab it back. (our ridiculously poor luck when WE couped it notwithstanding) I'd place the final IP in Laos/Cambodia or maybe the Gulf States. Laos/Cambodia would get us closer to well set up for when someone plays Indo/Pakistani War and for SE Asia Scoring, and Gulf States would also help with realignments of Saudi Arabia, and future plays of Terrorists.

Also, if Def Con stays at 4 this turn, it will lower back to 5 next turn, so we can turn around and coup Italy!

Couping Jordan wouldn't affect Def Con, so that's helpful. We can really go either way.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 07, 2014, 06:25:37 PM
Well, I got one rule right at least.  :-\ Ubercat I'm glad you're up on the rules...I didn't read them right obviously. Or the map. Or...sigh.

In any case if you're in agreement then we've narrowed our choices to either Coup Jordan or realign W Germany. Comrade Barthheartovitch what say you?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 07, 2014, 06:25:44 PM
But which one is the Europe scoring card in? early, mid, or late?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: Ubercat on January 07, 2014, 06:44:24 PM
Well, I got one rule right at least.  :-\ Ubercat I'm glad you're up on the rules...I didn't read them right obviously. Or the map. Or...sigh.

In any case if you're in agreement then we've narrowed our choices to either Coup Jordan or realign W Germany. Comrade Barthheartovitch what say you?

Actually, I was also including grabbing/securing Iran with 2 IPs and putting the remaining 1 IP somewhere else. Remember, ME scoring is still out there and they're currently leading in the ME. If they don't play ME scoring next, we'd be wise to grab Iran and make the ME a wash in VP's.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: Barthheart on January 07, 2014, 07:04:05 PM
I agree that if their next play is not ME scoring we should grab Iran. Other point should go to SE Asia.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 07, 2014, 08:18:27 PM
It's an Early War card and may not be held over for the next turn if it is in your possession.  See: http://twilightstrategy.com/2011/12/12/regions-europe/
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 08, 2014, 04:20:04 AM
I must have missed the 'holding' cards thing. So if we have a lousy card we can hold it for the next turn (in some cases)? anyway, if all Early cards are dealt then the Better Red than Dead must have it in their hand.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 08, 2014, 04:48:33 AM
Typically, you are dealt one more card than there are rounds so you would have a card that is held over for the next turn.  However (and I'd have to go back and look), IIRC, you guys had to play an extra card for something in one of the earlier rounds.  I'll dig in to that some time today to make sure.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 08, 2014, 05:20:25 AM
If that Euro score card is going to come up at the end will the event trigger? Or has that card already come and gone?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 08, 2014, 05:21:43 AM
do ALL cards get dealt? or is it just a selection?

just thinking aloud Stagger - if youre thinking the Europe card is with them or still in the deck, does that mean we can let europe go to s*** and there is no point investesting there?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 08, 2014, 05:23:02 AM
lol posted at same time - they havent played it, looking at the board theyd either lose or it would be a stalemate, its useless to them right now, but if they bin it - how valuable are operations in europe if we're never going to pull the score for it?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 08, 2014, 10:51:46 AM
We might get it next round if they can't hold it between turns and it goes back in play.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 08, 2014, 04:30:31 PM
Scoring cards cannot be held, they *must* be played the turn that they are dealt.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 08, 2014, 04:42:25 PM
Have all cards from the early deck been dealt? Or are there still some waiting for the next shuffle/turn that neither side has seen? If so, again, the Euro score card might still come our way. We would need to be ready (prepared on the map) to use it since it's an instawin.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 08, 2014, 04:45:39 PM
The "Early War" turns last for 3 turns.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 08, 2014, 04:48:39 PM
Yeah, I just went back to the card list and saw that there are some thirty-odd cards in the early group so only 16 have beed dealt so far IIRC.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 09, 2014, 01:54:35 AM
i think we would collect more points from it being played - i think, IF they have it, thats why its not been played it - their next aggressive move may indicate where if any there other score cards lay
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Ubercat on January 11, 2014, 07:35:05 AM
Everything OK, guys?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on January 11, 2014, 07:45:09 AM
I've lost track as to where we are - been a bit busy IRL  ???
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 11, 2014, 07:47:39 AM
We are all agreed in dropping the Fidel Card on Syria, yes? If so lets move ahead.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on January 11, 2014, 07:49:04 AM
I think we have decided and are just waiting on Gary.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on January 11, 2014, 07:55:01 AM
Aye - agreed.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on January 11, 2014, 11:01:40 AM
yup just waiting on Gary
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 11, 2014, 11:02:08 AM
We are all agreed in dropping the Fidel Card on Syria, yes? If so lets move ahead.

big thumbs up, lets go go go
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 11, 2014, 12:14:40 PM
Is that a Coup that you're wanting to attempt in Syria fellas?

And just to be clear, after the coup attempt, the USSR will gain 3 IP's in Cuba for the event.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on January 11, 2014, 12:15:21 PM
Message posted in your forums.  Turn out later today after clarification.  ;)
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 11, 2014, 12:29:16 PM
Yes and yes.

Just trying to make the best of what we got utilizing whatever n00bish skilz we can muster up...
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on January 15, 2014, 12:15:38 PM
Knock, knock...... yo Americaninskis... where you at?  ???
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on January 15, 2014, 12:48:20 PM
..is that you, Ivan?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 15, 2014, 12:57:40 PM
Uh...nyet...I mean, no, no, Comrad-err, friendivich. Friend! Friend, of course, da. I mean, yes. Uh...nyynno, is not Ivan, is friendly neighborhood sell of Women Sniper Scout cookies!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on January 15, 2014, 01:12:40 PM
Land Shark... errr.... Candygram...
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 15, 2014, 01:14:23 PM
Mr. Mongo?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Ubercat on January 15, 2014, 02:13:13 PM
I'm tired.

Tired of being admired.

Tired of love uninspired...
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 15, 2014, 04:15:20 PM
It's twue! It's twue!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on January 16, 2014, 02:12:12 AM
i still think we're waiting for Gary
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: JasonPratt on January 16, 2014, 01:30:10 PM
I've never even played this game (having gotten out of boardgames long ago when I had to go to college), but I dearly love it and am registering to follow further play between the teams. :)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Ubercat on January 18, 2014, 01:22:46 PM
Message posted in your forums.  Turn out later today after clarification.  ;)

It looks like this was the last post GJK has made on Grogheads. Does anyone know if he's OK?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on January 18, 2014, 01:31:08 PM
Looks like he logged in at least once yesterday.

Hopefully all is well and he is just busy with an overabundence of routine RL stuff. If so, we can easily wait.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 18, 2014, 01:44:20 PM
Yeah, probably RL stuff. The Americanskis are in no hurry to get buried.  ;D
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on January 18, 2014, 01:53:04 PM
Is that a case of Coca Cola in the back of your Zil?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on January 25, 2014, 07:05:17 AM
Guys - I'm sorry but I had to go AWOL there for a bit for some personal reasons involving a certain psycho ex-gf but we're all over that now.  :)

I'll catch up to where we were and process the round after I send this.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 25, 2014, 07:29:07 AM
You and mirth run in the same circles, Gary? ;)

Just kidding. Glad all is good and hope she hasn't boiled any bunnies or anything.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on January 25, 2014, 07:29:32 AM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R5_US_News.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on January 25, 2014, 07:31:46 AM
No worries Gary!


Psycho ex GF?

I think the bylaws here at GH say you have to have at least one PEGF in your past to be a member.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on January 25, 2014, 07:33:33 AM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R5_US_Action.jpg)

Ok folks, lots of shite stirring in this round.  Team USA has played the "Fidel" card for the OPs and have conducted a Coup in Syria.  The results are below:

Quote
*** American plays Fidel* for 2 Ops.
*** American initiates coup in Syria with 2 Ops.
* U.S. Die = [5] *** <American>
* American changes American Military Ops to 2.
* Removing 2 Soviet Influence from Syria.
* Adding 1 American Influence in Syria.

The Coup was successful:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R5_US_Syria.jpg)

After the OPs were played, the Event has triggered and Team USSR has taken control of Cuba:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R5_US_Cuba.jpg)

Team US has gained some MilOPs points and the current standing of that is as such:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R5_US_Milops.jpg)

Team USSR is now on the clock for Round 6 of Turn 1; the final round of the turn.  Go blow up the world gentlemen.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 25, 2014, 07:35:53 AM
Nice play on the COUP team US!  Here is your hand going in to round 6:
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R5_US_Hand_zxxcf2asdf.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on January 25, 2014, 07:37:48 AM
No worries Gary!


Psycho ex GF?

I think the bylaws here at GH say you have to have at least one PEGF in your past to be a member.

Mine was diagnosed and thus certified.  That "Twilight Struggle" is now over however and new one possibly begins today (date with someone new later today).  Jumpin' from one fryin' pan to the other, ain't I?  :O
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 25, 2014, 07:38:33 AM
We need to launch that bad boy into orbit as soon as the KGB Kats have made their move. Hope it's not too painful for us as we don't have a lot of options.  :(
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on January 25, 2014, 07:40:46 AM
Maybe it's like hot coals- if you keep stepping forwards then the burns are minimized...
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on January 25, 2014, 07:45:36 AM
Glad you're back Gary..... hope everything's cleared up.... I'm well versed in psycho ex girlfriend and psycho current girlfriend!

Oh and booooooyaaaa ruskies..... all your middle east is ours
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 25, 2014, 07:46:37 AM
Ha it worked..... woooohoooooo!

Yup, this one's going into space
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 25, 2014, 03:27:17 PM
Iran. Yes. Especially after Imperialist warmongering pig invasion into Syria.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: Ubercat on January 25, 2014, 08:45:34 PM
We get 3 Ops from Five Year Plan. We absolutely must take Iran back. The way they keep mucking about in the ME makes me think that they have ME Scoring and plan to play it as their last card.. If we leave the ME as is and they score it, they'll get 3 VP's. If we take Iran first, they'll lose Domination and scoring the ME won't get them any VP's (or us).

Since we seem to be agreed on Iran, we need to decide how to spend the additional Op(s). I think we should put 2 IP into Iran to give it extra security and discourage couping on their part. Looking ahead to Europe scoring, I really think that a coup of Italy with a good card should be our first move in turn 2, if possible. It's a risk, but if it works we can get Domination in Europe. (Grabbing Italy also sets us up to get into France if no one plays the Degaulle card.) Couping Italy would also lower Defcon and make it impossible for them to coup in Europe.

Domination requires control of a non BG country, however, and we don't have one in Europe yet. I say that we put 2 IPs from 5YP into Iran and 1 into Finland. We'll be just 2 more Ops from controlling Finland and that's a country that would be very hard for them to ever take from us (Stability of 4).

That's my vote for our 3 Ops. 2 IP in Iran, 1 IP in Finland. We can have the lame event fire after we use the Ops.
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 25, 2014, 08:56:48 PM
That's my vote for our 3 Ops. 2 IP in Iran, 1 IP in Finland. We can have the lame event fire after we use the Ops.

I did not think about Finland. Good call. I'm with you on this one.

Comrade Barthheartovich?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Arctic Blast on January 25, 2014, 09:02:57 PM
Mirth will happily keep her busy for you, GJK. He likes em crazy.  ;D

At any rate, glad to see the game returning.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Barthheart on January 26, 2014, 05:28:15 AM
Glad it all worked out for you GJK. Always take as much time as you need to extract yourself from those situations. We're only playing games here.... we can wait.... with popcorn...  ;)

Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: Barthheart on January 26, 2014, 05:31:53 AM
Da, is good plan Comrades. Let's stick it to them.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on January 26, 2014, 05:38:35 AM
Glad it all worked out for you GJK. Always take as much time as you need to extract yourself from those situations. We're only playing games here.... we can wait.... with popcorn hotdogs, cheeseburgers and fine Western Democracy fayre...  ;)

fixered
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: GJK on January 26, 2014, 11:35:23 AM
Quote
That's my vote for our 3 Ops. 2 IP in Iran, 1 IP in Finland.

Coming up!

Gentlemen, which card will you be discarding as part of the 5-yr plan event?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: Ubercat on January 26, 2014, 06:14:38 PM
Isn't it random?
Title: Re: Turn 1, Action Round 6
Post by: GJK on January 27, 2014, 03:38:25 AM
Oh, duh.  I need to read the card better.  Ok, coming up.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on January 27, 2014, 03:54:31 AM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R6_USSR_News.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: GJK on January 27, 2014, 04:02:43 AM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R6_USSR_Event.jpg)


Team USSR plays "Five Year Plan" for 3 Ops.  1 Op is placed in Finland and the other 2 Op's are placed in Iran.

The Middle East as it stands now:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R6_USSR_ME.jpg)

The event for "Five Year Plan" is triggered and a card is randomly drawn from the Soviet hand and the Event triggers immediately:

Quote
* USSR must discard CIA Created*.

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R6_USSR_card1.jpg)

Team USA plays "CIA Created" which reveals the hand of Team USSR:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R6_USSR_Hand.jpg)

PLUS, Team USA is allowed to play 1 Op as if though they had just played the card for their round.  This is a "free" play.

So, on the clock is Team USA to play 1 Op for the end of the USSR Round 6 and then they will need to move on to their portion of Round 6 by selecting a card for play.

The full map as it stands now can be viewed at http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Twilight_Struggle_Map.jpg
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 27, 2014, 06:49:12 AM
Make ready for the "Persian Soviet Socialist Republic," heathen Western moral-bankrupt running-dog Imperialist bourgeois swine!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on January 27, 2014, 07:13:00 AM
^ Try saying that after a couple of pints of Guinness!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: JasonPratt on January 27, 2014, 07:33:52 AM
Make ready for the "Persian Soviet Socialist Republic," heathen Western moral-bankrupt running-dog Imperialist bourgeois swine!

P'Shah.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 27, 2014, 08:53:06 AM
So we have 1 op point - I'd say let's put 1 influence in the gulf states and launch our card into space
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on January 27, 2014, 09:07:02 AM
Wey aye, mon, reet canny. Gan fer it.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Ubercat on January 27, 2014, 10:59:24 AM
Make ready for the "Persian Soviet Socialist Republic," heathen Western moral-bankrupt running-dog Imperialist bourgeois swine!

P'Shah.

I see what you did there!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on January 27, 2014, 11:04:54 AM
You ummmm having a few problems with the kids uber?
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 27, 2014, 12:31:17 PM
We need to launch that bad boy into orbit as soon as the KGB Kats have made their move. Hope it's not too painful for us as we don't have a lot of options.  :(

Space Race is the one "safe" out that you have each turn since the event does not trigger.

If Stagger is in agreement, I'll put the IP in the Gulf States and then play your last card on the Space Race track.
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 27, 2014, 12:55:55 PM
hes been an advocate of binning the card, just need to check the gulf states - come on the second deck!!!!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 27, 2014, 05:08:54 PM
Go for it!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Ubercat on January 27, 2014, 07:17:11 PM
Ehhh.. what?

Am I the only one who can see what he did there?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on January 27, 2014, 07:48:44 PM
Ehhh.. what?

Am I the only one who can see what he did there?

Kinda Farsi -cal if you ask me.


Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on January 28, 2014, 02:07:29 AM
Ehhh.. what?

Am I the only one who can see what he did there?

i mean your signatures!!
Title: Re: USA Turn 1 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 28, 2014, 04:33:35 AM
Sounds good - I'll prep this round at some point today or tonight.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Ubercat on January 28, 2014, 04:38:25 AM
LOL, I didn't write that stuff! It's from the GOOD book!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 28, 2014, 05:32:16 AM
(http://memepics.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/religion-pidgeon-bible-metaphors.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: JasonPratt on January 28, 2014, 03:23:52 PM
Since we're getting kind of RPFish while waiting for Team America World Police... ;)

Yes, that sentiment from the Psalm, and that military command from an ancient Near Middle Eastern campaign, are morally reprehensible. (In the case of Numbers, the command was reprehensible even by the standards of the time and culture, preventing the troops from claiming any personal honor in the victory; in the case of the Psalm, it was probably a common feeling among people who had just been on the receiving end of such a campaign. Be that as it may.)

But I'm only in a position to coherently criticize them morally, if the one and only fundamental reality turns out to be, not only actively rational, but an actively rational interpersonal relationship of fair-togetherness between persons -- a reality that omnisciently and voluntarily sacrifices itself for the sake of creation, and so eternally shares the suffering of all victims of inadvertent natural behaviors and of all victims of intentional injustice.

And that isn't atheism, or pantheism, or a cosmological dualsm, or some kind of subordinate polytheism. That's a supernaturalistic theism -- and not just any supernat-theism either. It's at least binitarian theism, of a sort where the self-sacrificial action of the God Most High might be expected to show up sooner or later to be voluntarily slain in an unjust manner, not only by His own enemies, but by the enemies who should have been His biggest allies.

Which happens to be the kind of religion the people being morally criticized there, were slowly developing in the background, and which some of them eventually instigated outright a little less than 2000 years ago.

On any metaphysic less than that (even a mere moral theism), my grounds for morally criticizing them break down upon close examination, into mere expressions of my micro or micro-environmental conditioning (such as the feelings of my group), or at best the invented behavorial standards of myself or my group (possibly meaning the mere dictates of an ultimate personal authority whom I might pragmatically follow). In that case, I'm only different from those people (in some ways), not morally better for refusing and rejecting those sentiments and behaviors.

Whereas, if such a reality is true, then even people who don't believe such a reality is true can really be morally better for refusing and rejecting those sentiments and behaviors. :)


In the judgment of the sheep and the goats near the end of the Gospel According to Matthew, the baby goats, the least of the flock of the Messiah there in the scene, are the ones going into the unquenchable fire to be sick and hungry and thirsty and imprisoned outside, for regarding the least of the Messiah's flock as unworthy to feed, clothe, heal, invite in, etc., despite thinking they've been serving the Messiah all along. The sheep, or the mature flock in Greek, have been serving the Messiah all along by being merciful to the least of the Messiah's flock -- and didn't even know they had been serving the Messiah!

The parable, as usual, is a test for the audience: in this case, is the reader or hearer going to interpret the fate of the baby goats, the least of the Messiah's flock in the judgment, like one of the mature flock would, or the way a baby goat would?! It has to be said, the servants of the Messiah, before and after that parable was given, have tended to interpret that parable the way a baby goat would...  :P

But that puts us in the place of the baby goats being judged in the judgment: we're the ones under judgment, who are unmerciful to the least of the flock of the Messiah, while thinking ourselves the mature flock.

Which is why I agree with Uber's criticism. :) (And also because I'm a trinitarian theist.)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 28, 2014, 03:37:35 PM
Am I the only one that saw "P'Shah" as a pun on 'Pshaw' and 'Shah' - as in the Shah of Iran, whom technically I think was in power at the time of this game turn?

Well, probably not, considering how people 'round here avoid that crap like the plague. THE PLAGUE OF FROGS!

Ahem...sorry. On to Capitalist pig bashing!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: undercovergeek on January 28, 2014, 03:40:34 PM
Am I the only one that saw "P'Shah" as a pun on 'Pshaw' and 'Shah' - as in the Shah of Iran, whom technically I think was in power at the time of this game turn?

Well, probably not, considering how people 'round here avoid that crap like the plague. THE PLAGUE OF FROGS!

Ahem...sorry. On to Capitalist pig bashing!

2 of the weirdest posts back to back - one short, one long
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 28, 2014, 03:42:17 PM
Just tryin' to get into those siggy lines. A little cray-cray goes a long way-way.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: JasonPratt on January 28, 2014, 04:21:52 PM
I have a mutant ability to write the shortest and the longest weird posts at will. :)


(And yes, I was punning Pshaw with the Shahs who tended to get involved with the Cold War. Reasonably enough, considering the Giant Touchy Bear on their north border.)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Ubercat on January 28, 2014, 04:58:13 PM
Am I the only one that saw "P'Shah" as a pun on 'Pshaw' and 'Shah' - as in the Shah of Iran, whom technically I think was in power at the time of this game turn?

Well, probably not, considering how people 'round here avoid that crap like the plague. THE PLAGUE OF FROGS!

Ahem...sorry. On to Capitalist pig bashing!

Um.. no. ;)

Quote from: Ubercat
I see what you did there!

Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Ubercat on January 28, 2014, 05:23:20 PM
Since we're getting kind of RPFish while waiting for Team America World Police... ;)

Yes, that sentiment from the Psalm, and that military command from an ancient Near Middle Eastern campaign, are morally reprehensible. (In the case of Numbers, the command was reprehensible even by the standards of the time and culture, preventing the troops from claiming any personal honor in the victory; in the case of the Psalm, it was probably a common feeling among people who had just been on the receiving end of such a campaign. Be that as it may

I don't concern myself with the justness or injustice of the behavior of the ancient Israelite's anymore than I do that of any other long vanished culture, other than as a curiosity. My only beef is with the moral bankruptcy of the supposed supreme authority credited with being behind the bible.

Quote
But I'm only in a position to coherently criticize them morally, if the one and only fundamental reality turns out to be, not only actively rational, but an actively rational interpersonal relationship of fair-togetherness between persons -- a reality that omnisciently and voluntarily sacrifices itself for the sake of creation, and so eternally shares the suffering of all victims of inadvertent natural behaviors and of all victims of intentional injustice.

Now you sound a bit like you're channeling the very noble, but ultimately misguided goals of the human descendants from half a million years in our future, written about in some of the books of Stephen Baxters epic science fiction Xeelee sequence of books. A great series, breathtaking in it's sheer scope. Our human successors, in possession of time travel technology and many other amazing powers, wanted to alter the past and eliminate all unnecessary suffering. For all their power, they are not the greatest beings in the universe and never can be! Anyway, those far future do gooders are only a small bit of the story, limited to 1 or 2 books.

Quote
And that isn't atheism, or pantheism, or a cosmological dualsm, or some kind of subordinate polytheism. That's a supernaturalistic theism -- and not just any supernat-theism either. It's at least binitarian theism, of a sort where the self-sacrificial action of the God Most High might be expected to show up sooner or later to be voluntarily slain in an unjust manner, not only by His own enemies, but by the enemies who should have been His biggest allies.

Which happens to be the kind of religion the people being morally criticized there, were slowly developing in the background, and which some of them eventually instigated outright a little less than 2000 years ago.

Yes, it's ironic that Gods morality slowly changes over time to precisely match that of his followers.

Quote
On any metaphysic less than that (even a mere moral theism), my grounds for morally criticizing them break down upon close examination, into mere expressions of my micro or micro-environmental conditioning (such as the feelings of my group), or at best the invented behavorial standards of myself or my group (possibly meaning the mere dictates of an ultimate personal authority whom I might pragmatically follow). In that case, I'm only different from those people (in some ways), not morally better for refusing and rejecting those sentiments and behaviors.

I think that you're a primate, just like the rest of us. You don't eat babies of your own species any more than most animals don't, and for the same reasons. You don't need a fear of Hell to mostly behave in ways that have an overall benefit for your society.

Quote
Whereas, if such a reality is true, then even people who don't believe such a reality is true can really be morally better for refusing and rejecting those sentiments and behaviors. :)

I *think* I agree.

Quote
In the judgment of the sheep and the goats near the end of the Gospel According to Matthew, the baby goats, the least of the flock of the Messiah there in the scene, are the ones going into the unquenchable fire to be sick and hungry and thirsty and imprisoned outside, for regarding the least of the Messiah's flock as unworthy to feed, clothe, heal, invite in, etc., despite thinking they've been serving the Messiah all along. The sheep, or the mature flock in Greek, have been serving the Messiah all along by being merciful to the least of the Messiah's flock -- and didn't even know they had been serving the Messiah!

The parable, as usual, is a test for the audience: in this case, is the reader or hearer going to interpret the fate of the baby goats, the least of the Messiah's flock in the judgment, like one of the mature flock would, or the way a baby goat would?! It has to be said, the servants of the Messiah, before and after that parable was given, have tended to interpret that parable the way a baby goat would...  :P

But that puts us in the place of the baby goats being judged in the judgment: we're the ones under judgment, who are unmerciful to the least of the flock of the Messiah, while thinking ourselves the mature flock.

Which is why I agree with Uber's criticism. :) (And also because I'm a trinitarian theist.)

That was a massive post with a lot to digest. I react with fear and trembling when I reflect that you might not have been an experienced author, in which case you might not have made such good use of paragraphs. (Can you imagine THAT wall of text?  :o)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: Staggerwing on January 28, 2014, 05:57:54 PM
Uncle Joe must be sooo confused by now…  ???
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: bob48 on January 29, 2014, 05:28:47 AM
...he aint the only one. There again, I live in a perpetual state of confusion.
Title: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on January 29, 2014, 08:09:53 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R6_US_News.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on January 29, 2014, 08:11:38 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R6_US_Event.jpg)

Finishing up the USSR portion of Round 6, Team USA has elected to play their 1 OP pt to place influence in the Gulf States.  The current situation in the Middle East is as such:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T1_R6_USSR_ME2.jpg)

For the USA portion of Round 6, Team USA has elected to play the "Comecon" card on the Space Race track. The results are below:
Quote

*** American plays COMECON* in the Space Race for 3 Ops.
* U.S. Die = [4] *** <American>
* Space Race attempt not successful.

This will conclude Game Turn 1! 

This was the end results for the turn:

 
Quote

*** U.S. did not perform enough Military Operations ***
* U.S. player penalized 2 VPs.
* American changes Soviet Military Ops to 0.
* American changes American Military Ops to 0.
* Soviets gain 2 VPs.
* American changes VPs to 10 Soviet Victory Points.
* American changes DefCon to 5.
* Coups and realignments now allowed in Europe.
* American player deals cards.
* American player updated turn to Turn 2; Headline Phase
 



The new hands have been dealt and those will be uploaded to your private forums shortly.

Both teams are on the clock now in order to decide their HEADLINE PHASE card play for the start of Turn 2.

The current map can be seen here:  http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Twilight_Struggle_Map.jpg

Good luck in Turn 2 gentlemen!
Title: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: GJK on January 29, 2014, 08:12:59 PM
Comrades, here is your hand for the start of Turn 2, Headline Phase.  Choose wisely!
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_R1_USSR_Hand_asdf23asdf23as.jpg)
Title: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 29, 2014, 08:14:01 PM
Gentlemen, here is your hand for the start of Turn 2, Headline Phase.  May the force be with you....

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_R1_USA_Hand_4235asdf234.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Barthheart on January 29, 2014, 08:15:27 PM
US rocket go boom! Woohoo!  ;D

10 VP's! Woohoo!  8)

Go Commies!  :D
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: Barthheart on January 29, 2014, 08:18:04 PM
WOW! Cool hand..... what to do first?   ???
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 30, 2014, 04:14:12 AM
 :o

5 red cards. Ouch!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Ubercat on January 30, 2014, 07:36:20 AM
Thanks GJK. It looks like the map hasn't yet been updated for turn 2.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 07:44:54 AM
Thanks, GJK.

Does the COMECON event fire for us?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Ubercat on January 30, 2014, 07:47:10 AM
No, they space raced it.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 07:50:40 AM
D'oh, forgot that. Thanks.
Title: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 07:52:18 AM
Turn 2, Action Round 1 discussion and play.

Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 07:53:38 AM
Here's a repost of our current hand for discussion this round:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_R1_USSR_Hand_asdf23asdf23as.jpg)

Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: Ubercat on January 30, 2014, 08:13:00 AM
I'm nervous about Defectors since we haven't seen it come out, yet. I think that there's roughly a 50% chance that they drew it. We want to play a headline event that will help us, but not a massive amazing one in case they play Defectors and cancel it.

I say that we play Indo-Pakistani War as our headline. At best, we get 2 Milops and 2 VP.  It doesn't matter who invades who; the board wont change since they have no Influence in either. If the die roll fails, we still get the Milops. If they make it defect, we aren't out as much as if we played Suez Crisis.

It's a mixed blessing that we have both remaining score cards. In our favor, we decide when they get played. Against us is the fact that playing a score card basically wastes a turn. If we're lucky, we get VP out of it, but we aren't doing anything to advance our board position. I toyed with the idea of headlining a score card. Wouldn't it be funny if THEY cancelled ME scoring after all their obsessive activity in the ME? I decided against it, though. We still have opportunities to gain ground in Europe and the ME. Who knows WHAT cards the Americans are holding? They may have to help us out with more events! There are several that would be a big help in Europe if the enemy has them.

What say you, Comrades? My vote is Indo-Pakistani War
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: Ubercat on January 30, 2014, 08:17:43 AM
I'd say that we could do a hell of a lot worse than to lead off with Suez Crisis. We take away 2 IP from Israel and 2 from the UK. They lose control of 2 important countries in one go. They'd have to burn a 4 Op card to replace the points. If they don't, they're in a position of having to play catchup on at least one continent.
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 08:25:17 AM
At first glance, this looks like a great hand, but most of these cards are going to require a little build-up to be most effective, and there's little we can do in the way of doing everything we want.

For Europe Scoring and Middle East Scoring, at least we know both of those are in our hands this Turn and not in our enemy's.

I see what you're saying for Suez Crisis, Comrade Ubercat. I was thinking Nasser would be a good first AR play this Turn, but it's probably not crucial. While they might react to our playing Nasser, they will definitely be put on the defensive right away if we play Suez Crisis.



Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 30, 2014, 09:12:54 AM
fk me thats a bad hand - although the marshall plan looks nice!!!
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on January 30, 2014, 09:20:57 AM
Very Tricky. Any idea's chaps?
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 30, 2014, 09:21:46 AM
well warsaws going to space

i think the defectors card is invalid but we can use the ops points

we have no score cards - i think whichever region the russians make a play for in the next turn will tell us they have a score card for that area
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: bob48 on January 30, 2014, 09:22:25 AM
In space, no one can hear you fart.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on January 30, 2014, 09:23:17 AM
How about Defectors?
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 30, 2014, 09:24:21 AM
lol, i ammended my previous post for answer bob
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on January 30, 2014, 09:26:09 AM
sneaky bugger.....
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: undercovergeek on January 30, 2014, 09:27:51 AM
Thanks, GJK.

Does the COMECON event fire for us?

pfffft, i dont frikking think so!!!!

card launched into spaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaace - you get no influence bonus
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 09:28:53 AM
That's okay, Capitalist dog! Continue vith your mewing as the dialectic buries your countries! ;D
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 30, 2014, 09:29:24 AM
oh balls hang on, its a new headline phase - i was thinking there wasnt one again...........

id say thats our opener, because well, it has to be!!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Updates
Post by: JasonPratt on January 30, 2014, 09:50:26 AM
Team America yet? Rats...

I don't concern myself with the justness or injustice of the behavior of the ancient Israelite's anymore than I do that of any other long vanished culture, other than as a curiosity. My only beef is with the moral bankruptcy of the supposed supreme authority credited with being behind the bible.

That would be like saying you don't concern yourself with the justness or injustice of the behavior of Stalin's regime other than a curiosity, your only beef is with the moral bankruptcy of the system they implemented or perhaps with the moral bankruptcy of the supreme authority credited behind the system. AND THUS I HAVE BOOMARANGED THE TOPIC BACK AROUND TO THE THREAD!  ;D (Also, I have discovered that either I or the forum software doesn't know how to spell boomarang...  :o )

Now you sound a bit like you're channeling the very noble, but ultimately misguided goals of the human descendants from half a million years in our future, written about in some of the books of Stephen Baxters epic science fiction Xeelee sequence of books.

That series sounds a bit like the plot of that epic (and rather grimdark) three book series of an alternate Joan of Arc story by... um... Mary someone. It's been several years since a friend told me about it, and I've forgotten who.  :-[ (My friend was comparing the author's concept with something in my own novel.) Anyway the concept is that the book is a historical narrative being compiled by an editor (the real author, who also researched a ton of things about Jeanne d'Arc's time and place) who leaves extensive footnote commentary on why she went with various ideas in the story (i.e. the real author showing off her work); but along the way the editor discovers the timeline is being altered by sentient machines from the future. Or something like that.

Yes, it's ironic that Gods morality slowly changes over time to precisely match that of his followers.

Or vice versa. :) Obviously it doesn't precisely match the followers, or the followers wouldn't be morally criticizing themselves so much. (Which also happens in the Jewish scriptures -- as bloodthirsty as they are, they're also the most self-critical religious scriptures I've ever seen. Granted I haven't seen every set of scriptures ever made. ;) )

I think that you're a primate, just like the rest of us. You don't eat babies of your own species any more than most animals don't, and for the same reasons. You don't need a fear of Hell to mostly behave in ways that have an overall benefit for your society.

Are they the same reasons the ancient Israelis killed babies of their own species (and later of their own group)? Or weren't they primates like the rest of us? (Actually, I seem to recall baby killing being a common practice by some other primates. But maybe I'm misremembering.)

More to the point, the ancient Israelites would have had a perfectly valid utilitarian pragmatic argument that genociding off most people except the young girls was the best way to have an overall benefit for ancient Israeli society, both short term (in the war band) and long term (taking over a depopulated resource area). Sucks for the other society, but they demonstrably weren't fit enough to survive and pass on their genetics to their own young females. The Soviets thought what they were doing to their own society, and to others nearby in reach, provided the best overall benefit to their society -- that was literally their rationales for doing so. (Same with the Nazis: the whole point to fascism is "whatever is best for our nation regardless of what that requires".)

I don't accept social pragmatism as being the most proper rationale for all behaviors. Social pragmatism behaviors definitely happen, but they aren't necessarily right.

That's why I can criticize what they did as being morally bankrupt, and why I can criticize theologians who appeal to that behavior as morally proper anyway as morally bankrupt, even if they appeal to the command of a strongest power (and even if that strongest power is something I myself believe exists: its behaviors aren't necessarily right in principle for being the behaviors of the strongest power, so its reputed behaviors don't get to have automatic moral defense on that ground either.) That's why I can criticize what the Nazis did as being morally bankrupt, even though they thought they were being socially pragmatic for maximum benefit. Even if they had been correct about that (which they weren't), it would still have been morally wrong to genocide the Jews, and still morally wrong even though the Jews long ago used to do the same thing to whomever they managed to get power over.

Am I back to the thread topic again yet?  :D (I can't remember if Soviet pogroms were still going on during the early Cold War.)

(Can you imagine THAT wall of text?  :o)

The thought horrifies and yet arouses me!  8) But I like to explain in detail why I'm morally and/or rationally complementing people; particularly when we're opponents. :)

Fwiw, I arguably overshoot the other direction too far in my novel: too many intentionally short paragraphs and paragraph fragments.  :D
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: Ubercat on January 30, 2014, 09:56:31 AM
We want them on the defensive. If they're busy undoing damage we did to them, they'll be slower to damage us. If we lead with Nasser, they might just turn around and coup Egypt away from us. If we give them fires to put out in the UK and Israel first, We may have time to secure our hold on Egypt and maybe even go into Libya from there.

I don't see any cards left in the deck that help us in the ME (if Americans are holding them). There are several that help us in Europe. If they have any of those European events, they may be distracted enough trying to shore up their position in Europe that we get away with slipping into Egypt. We still have to grab a non BG country in the ME to have a chance at Domination, though.

Well, let's not vote on this until AFTER our headline card is played. We don't want GJK to get confused and headline what we choose HERE rather than in the other thread!
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 10:15:17 AM
I'm terrible at this game. I keep thinking I know the order of play, and totally missed the Headline Phase. Again.

Alrighty then. Let's see what happens.
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 10:17:24 AM
Yeah, Indo-Pakistani War will give us a cheap 2 VPs and 2 MilOps. Too bad the West doesn't have a presence there so we might have a chance at replacing their Influence, but regardless, more VPs for us. I'm okay with that play.

What say you, Comrade Barthheartovich?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on January 30, 2014, 11:58:41 AM
I'll double check the map - I may not of actually advanced it to turn 2.  I will do so and then upload when I get home.  The map as shown though should be where we are at going in to turn 2 however.  The VP's should be +10 for USSR, Defcon is at 5 and nobody has acquired MilOps points yet (obviously).
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 12:04:01 PM
Nope, it's showing Turn 1, Defcon 4, and +8 VPs for us Commies. :)

No worries or hurry, though. Thanks for your hard work so far.
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: Barthheart on January 30, 2014, 12:53:50 PM
Da, I agree with you comrades. Let's have India invade... maybe take out the Paks finally...  :P
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 01:12:00 PM
But ve are controlink Pakistan, comrade.  ;)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: JasonPratt on January 30, 2014, 01:20:14 PM
Comecon, hm? A conventional if subtly naughty choice...
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: Barthheart on January 30, 2014, 01:26:49 PM
DOH! Er... I meant have the Paks take out India... should really read the map before spouting off......  :P
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 01:29:01 PM
Ha, I screw up more than that.

It doesn't really matter anyway, as they have no Influence there so there's nothing for us to replace. We're in it for the veeps. Then we'll only be 8 away from victory.

Of course, if they play Defectors, no veeps.
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 01:29:36 PM
That's our Headline play, GJK: Indo-Pakistani War.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on January 30, 2014, 05:38:54 PM
Am I wrong in thinking that now would be the time to play Cambridge Five? We have no scoring card to reveal so thus no free point for the Commie Litter.
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 06:01:23 PM
Also, comrades: here is an Excel spreadsheet I put together tonight to help us track evil Western cardplay (and to keep straight which ones are out permanently and which might very well return).

(Unfortunately, this site does not accept Excel sheets, so I had to put it into a Word doc.)

I think this is accurate, so if I've missed anything or have something reported incorrectly, please let me know. I'm going off of what that strategy website says is included, and based on the NATO inclusion (106) as well. There very well may be a different set of cards, and if that's the case I'll go pull my copy out and figure out a revision.

Quote
SUPER-SECRET COMMUNIST REPORT
FOR: EYES ONLY OF GLORIOUS SOVIET LEADERS
EVERYONE ELSE, PLEASE KILL TO SELF NOW

Cards floating out there currently that could be in decadent Western hands:

(Blue is US-centric Event cards; Red is USSR-centric; bold brown is both)

(4) Duck and Cover
(7) Socialist Governments
(11) Korean War *
(12) Romanian Abdication *
(16) Warsaw Pact Formed *
(17) DeGaulle Leads France *
(18) Captured Nazi Scientist *
(19) Truman Doctrine *
(22) Independent Reds *
(23) Marshall Plan *
(27) US/Japan Mutual Defense Pact *
(30) Decolonization
(103) Defectors
(104) The Cambridge Five
(105) Special Relationship


(1) If this intelligence is accurate (and the card statuses are as well), the US has a 50/50 chance of having the Defectors card. Actually, a slightly better than 50/50 chance.

(2) There will be a re-shuffle of all Early War cards during the next Turn.


Thank you, fellow Reds.
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: Barthheart on January 30, 2014, 07:02:48 PM
Card counter!  :P

Just joking... but I never try to keep track of cards played in games....
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: BanzaiCat on January 30, 2014, 07:28:42 PM
Maybe it is a bit much, but I need an edge to help me understand what's going on.

Comrade Ubercat has mentioned certain cards being out there a few times and I had to think, 'well dammit, it's been too long, I really need to look at these more closely.'

Now that I've done this chart, actually, there's some things coming back to me, but I was afraid I was missing some kind of updated version that had cards I'd not ever heard of before.

Also, I'm anal and like spreadsheets and databases. This last bit explains more than anything else why I exhibit this behavior.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on January 30, 2014, 08:31:25 PM
Ok, corrected (current) map is up: http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Twilight_Struggle_Map.jpg
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 31, 2014, 03:42:47 AM
Am I wrong in thinking that now would be the time to play Cambridge Five? We have no scoring card to reveal so thus no free point for the Commie Litter.

i was thinking that was one of our throw away cards at any time - its invalid for the whole of this deck
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: GJK on January 31, 2014, 10:41:39 AM
That's our Headline play, GJK: Indo-Pakistani War.

Affirmative.  I'll let the Imperial Bastiche's know that you've made your choice.  :)
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: GJK on January 31, 2014, 10:45:13 AM
Gentlemen, Team USSR has made their choice for the Headline Phase (FYI). 

As a wee-little bit of help for you, do *read* the text of each of your cards carefully before making your choice for the Headline Phase.  ;)
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on January 31, 2014, 11:01:47 AM
i think it should be defectors at this point
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: GJK on February 03, 2014, 07:15:36 AM
Have we made a decision on your Turn 2 Headline Phase card play gentlemen? 
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on February 03, 2014, 07:31:06 AM
AFAIK itll be the one that we have to play in the headline (defectors) but ill wait for the nod from Bob and Mr Wing
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on February 03, 2014, 07:42:22 AM
I'll follow the herd on this one.

… Mr Wing

LOL! Makes me sound like a character from Kung Fu Panda
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on February 03, 2014, 07:49:26 AM
i prefer badass Triad boss
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on February 03, 2014, 08:25:57 AM
..with noodles!

Yes, I'm fine with that - can't really see any viable alternatives.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: GJK on February 03, 2014, 08:36:12 AM
Ok, I'll work up the Headline Phase tonight ("Defectors") for you guys.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on February 03, 2014, 08:40:52 AM
Thanks Gary.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Barthheart on February 10, 2014, 12:59:30 PM
Is there an American Newspaper strike????
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: undercovergeek on February 10, 2014, 01:56:47 PM
lol, were done, i think GJK is having 'real life' again
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 10, 2014, 04:53:22 PM
'Salright. Commies are winning.  8)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: undercovergeek on February 11, 2014, 01:27:02 AM
'Salright. Commies are winning.  8)

only because of your jammy cards
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on February 11, 2014, 04:35:38 AM
They're right cheeky gits, ain't they?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Staggerwing on February 11, 2014, 04:39:55 AM
Oh, behave!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Ubercat on February 12, 2014, 02:27:10 PM
It doesn't appear likely to matter but I expect to be gone to Florida this Monday the 17th until Saturday the 22nd.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: undercovergeek on February 21, 2014, 02:10:56 AM
Does anyone know Gary, just to see if he's ok?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Staggerwing on February 21, 2014, 04:24:01 AM
Gary's logged to the forums recently, just not posted. I'm guessing he had another steaming pile of messy RL dropped into his lap again.

Gary, if you need anything let us know.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Ubercat on February 22, 2014, 10:07:29 PM
I'm back.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: bob48 on February 23, 2014, 04:35:20 AM
Gary's logged to the forums recently, just not posted. I'm guessing he had another steaming pile of messy RL dropped into his lap again.

Gary, if you need anything let us know.

What Stagger said.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Barthheart on February 23, 2014, 04:54:38 AM
I'm back.

Welcome back, Comrade.  8)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Ubercat on February 23, 2014, 06:47:50 AM
Thank you!

Nice avatar. I have that counter and the game it came with. Are you playing a lot of "Heroes" games?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Barthheart on February 23, 2014, 07:40:45 AM
Thank you!

Nice avatar. I have that counter and the game it came with. Are you playing a lot of "Heroes" games?

Yep, have all the WWII and WWIII stuff. Even splurged for the New Heroes of Normandy.... went whole hog and got the entire thing so I could get my name on a Canadian leader.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: bob48 on February 23, 2014, 09:23:59 AM
I'm hovering about pulling the trigger on that, mainly due to shipping costs. I'm well into the system now with HotB and IDD, but I may have to wait until I can buy it from a UK source. I assume there is little doubt that it will get published.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Barthheart on February 23, 2014, 11:32:47 AM
I'm hovering about pulling the trigger on that, mainly due to shipping costs. I'm well into the system now with HotB and IDD, but I may have to wait until I can buy it from a UK source. I assume there is little doubt that it will get published.

Yeah, LnLP tells me that they are publishing it... regardless of it reaching it's goal.
 8)
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on April 30, 2014, 01:44:53 PM
I think we can assume this has come to an end. maybe we should shut it down and ask BB for our cheese back?
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on April 30, 2014, 02:37:01 PM
it should be left to pass with dignity and joy to all westerners for our glorious victory
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on April 30, 2014, 02:40:58 PM
Never mind about all that, what about our cheese - I thought we were fighting for freedom, democracy and our rightful allocation of cheese.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on April 30, 2014, 02:46:30 PM
oh yeah, hey, put my cheese back!!!
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on April 30, 2014, 02:48:06 PM
Best ask Stagger and the reds if they concur, it really does look like we have won by default.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on April 30, 2014, 05:30:01 PM
If we won I'll certainly concur!


But GJK has just started posting again and expresses an interest in picking up where we left off.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on May 01, 2014, 05:12:52 AM
If we won I'll certainly concur!


But GJK has just started posting again and expresses an interest in picking up where we left off.

Have to do some catching up then. I didn't notice that Gary had been back on.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: GJK on May 10, 2014, 06:28:42 AM
The drama that I was in is now over and the wargaming bug has bitten once again.  I'd like to continue if you guys are still up for it.
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: GJK on May 10, 2014, 06:29:28 AM
As I just posted over in the Capitalists' area:

 The drama that I was in is now over and the wargaming bug has bitten once again.  I'd like to continue if you guys are still up for it. 
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on May 10, 2014, 06:37:12 AM
Time to keep the dominoes propped up!

Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on May 10, 2014, 06:37:18 AM
Glad to see you are back, Gary. Yup, I'm up for it, once I do some revision.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on May 10, 2014, 06:48:09 AM
Just as in real life, the Cold War took many years to play out....
Here is the Headline phase for Turn 2 card selections by the teams.

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_headline_phase.jpg)

The full map can be seen http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Twilight_Struggle_Map.jpg (http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Twilight_Struggle_Map.jpg)

Good luck in Turn 2 gentlemen

Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: GJK on May 10, 2014, 06:50:40 AM
I figure that we may have to *ease* back in to it.  This game could last quite a while but I'll stick with it.  :)

Folks, here's your hand as it stands now after the Headline Phase:

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_USA_Hand_Rd1_23asd23zxc.jpg)

I need to go browse the rules again (lol!) but I believe that the Soviets are on the clock for their first choice in Round 1. 
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: GJK on May 10, 2014, 06:52:24 AM
Ok you communist hoardes...here is your hand as it stands after the Headline Phase.  You guys are on the clock (tho' it ticks very slowly obviously) for your selection for Round 1 of Turn 2.

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_USSR_Hand_Rd1_asdszxcvxc.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: bayonetbrant on May 10, 2014, 07:08:43 AM
Click to enlarge

(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Twilight_Struggle_Map.jpg)
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 10, 2014, 07:30:08 AM
Looks like I picked a decent time to pop my head back around these forums...thanks, GJK!
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 10, 2014, 07:31:49 AM
I've been MIA off and on for the last several months myself, GJK. I'm up for it if my fellow comrades are, and the capitalist rats are as well. Unless they wish to give up and allow paving over of homes for glorious Soviet state.
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: Ubercat on May 10, 2014, 08:25:47 AM
I'd like to continue though I'll need a little bit of time to get back up to speed. I JUST 2 days ago put my TS cards away, too!
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: GJK on May 10, 2014, 09:28:49 AM
We can just ease back in to it...if everybody is wanting to do so.  ;)
Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: Barthheart on May 10, 2014, 02:04:54 PM
I'm in! Welcome back Gary and Banzi!

That capitalist headline is a real bastard play!  >:(
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: Barthheart on May 10, 2014, 02:08:06 PM
Looks like we have a great hand for scoring more points this round.

How to start so as to not tip off the Yankee Doodles....?

Title: Re: Turn 2 Headline Phase
Post by: Ubercat on May 12, 2014, 09:07:42 AM
I'm in! Welcome back Gary and Banzi!

That capitalist headline is a real bastard play!  >:(

But it's what we were expecting, which is why we played an almost throw away card. Imagine if we'd lost Suez Crisis!
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: Ubercat on May 12, 2014, 09:31:42 AM
I'd love to take Israel away from them with Arab Israeli War but we'd need to roll a 6 to win. I think we should hit them with Suez Crisis and remove 2 IP each from Israel and the UK.
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: Barthheart on May 12, 2014, 10:22:20 AM
Yep, I agree. It should keep them in the dark about our other cards and helps with both our scoring cards.
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: BanzaiCat on May 13, 2014, 06:54:40 AM
Agreed!
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 1
Post by: GJK on May 13, 2014, 09:18:00 AM
I'd love to take Israel away from them with Arab Israeli War but we'd need to roll a 6 to win. I think we should hit them with Suez Crisis and remove 2 IP each from Israel and the UK.

Since everybody seems to be in agreement on this play, I will work it up and post it tonight.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on May 13, 2014, 06:53:17 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_R1_USSR_Event_News.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on May 13, 2014, 06:59:52 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_R1_USSR.jpg)

*** Soviet plays Suez Crisis* Event ***
* USSR may remove 4 Influence from France, the U.K. and/or Israel - no more than 2 per country.
U.S. Influence in Israel was decreased from 4 to 2.
U.S. Influence in U.K. was decreased from 5 to 3.
* Soviet player updated turn to Turn 2, Round 1: American

The Captain America team is on the clock for their portion of Round 1.

Updated map can be seen at http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Twilight_Struggle_Map.jpg
Title: Turn 2, AR 2
Post by: GJK on May 13, 2014, 07:02:22 PM
Very well played Comrades!

Here is your hand going in to round 2:
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_R2_USSR_Hand_adzxcv_pm.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on May 13, 2014, 07:04:59 PM
Nevermind...fixed the graphic. 
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: undercovergeek on May 14, 2014, 02:57:08 AM
im not entirely sure what just happened!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on May 14, 2014, 03:33:29 AM
I didn't elaborate (thought the VASSAL output may of been enough).  Sorry-

Team USSR has played Suez Crisis for the EVENT. As part of the event, U.S. influence was adjusted in the affected countries:

Quote
U.S. Influence in Israel was decreased from 4 to 2.
U.S. Influence in U.K. was decreased from 5 to 3.
No changes in VP, DefCON or MilOps from that play.

Team USA is on the clock for Round 1 of Turn 2.  ;)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: undercovergeek on May 14, 2014, 04:11:52 AM
who elected comecon as our card?

and what were the results of the headline phase, if any

i think ive lost track!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Staggerwing on May 14, 2014, 04:23:33 AM
Me too. I need a little time to run through the last few turns.



Stagger... You might want to use yer inner voice (private forum) when discussing yer strategy...  ^-^

D'oh! I thought it was on that very forum. That's what i get for trying to post while running around getting my kids ready for school. Sorry guys.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: undercovergeek on May 14, 2014, 04:26:06 AM
im almost sure we launched comecon into space at the end of turn 1

edit - yep reading back, comecon went to space 2 turns ago
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Barthheart on May 14, 2014, 04:58:05 AM
Yes the graphic is showing yer last move not yer current one because you haven't chosen it yet.

Stagger... You might want to use yer inner voice (private forum) when discussing yer strategy...  ^-^
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on May 14, 2014, 05:15:13 AM
goddam what an evil card that was!!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: undercovergeek on May 14, 2014, 05:16:26 AM
Yes the graphic is showing yer last move not yer current one because you haven't chosen it yet.

Stagger... You might want to use yer inner voice (private forum) when discussing yer strategy...  ^-^

gotcha, man ive lost track of all of this - and what an evil fkr of a card that was!!
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on May 14, 2014, 05:32:47 AM
Sorry for blabbing strategy on the main forum. I got mixed up about where I was posting- too much going on this morning=brain fart.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on May 14, 2014, 05:47:46 AM
lol, i think were ok - what i was going to say is wherever they make a serious play we can assume they have a score card for that region, i know we havent got one, im assuming they must, if their next play is europe again, i think they have the europe card
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on May 14, 2014, 05:48:51 AM
Note that the HEADLINE Phase was awash since the card that TEAM USA selected nullified any card played by TEAM USSR.  I'll try and elaborate on the action a bit more (as I had been doing).
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: undercovergeek on May 14, 2014, 05:53:39 AM
Note that the HEADLINE Phase was awash since the card that TEAM USA selected nullified any card played by TEAM USSR.  I'll try and elaborate on the action a bit more (as I had been doing).

its cool, i was just lost for a few secs, got the hang of the flow again now............... i think
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Barthheart on May 14, 2014, 06:31:04 AM
Silly Capitalists can't concentrate for more than 5 seconds because of all their shine electronic gadgets.  :D

Communist hoards still using abacuses have all the concentration time in the world....  8)
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: GJK on June 08, 2014, 12:52:20 AM
Just checking in with you gentlemen to see if we have the group back together and can resume....
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 08, 2014, 02:15:44 AM
im ready for some russkie stompin
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on June 08, 2014, 04:51:08 AM
Just seeing if this old brain can catch up. I went on a quad bike thing yesterday with one of my sons, great fun but I think it must have scrambled my brain cells - plus my back and arms ache a bit.

Poor old sod.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 08, 2014, 05:04:11 AM
youre not that pensioner who escaped from the nursing home are you?
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on June 08, 2014, 05:09:14 AM
Could be.......
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on June 08, 2014, 05:10:49 AM
Stormed the beach bunnies of Normandy, 'e did
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on June 08, 2014, 05:14:13 AM
...on an amphibious quad bike........
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 08, 2014, 05:16:50 AM
Could be.......

youre Hong Kong Phooey?
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on June 08, 2014, 05:22:22 AM
Where did we leave off?

'ave we got a plan?
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 08, 2014, 05:26:36 AM
we just got pillaged by a mega card
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on June 08, 2014, 05:32:45 AM
I've completely lost the plot.........

This was where I was yesterday.

http://www.thequadfather.com/
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 08, 2014, 05:41:08 AM
lol - good skills bob

we finished turn 1 sending comecon into space

turn 2 has started with them wiping 2 of our counters in the uk, and 2 in israel

i see we have 2 options - rebuild in israel - uk is safe for now

or take the fight to them but we dont have a score card to aim for

as i said a couple a months back - i think where ever we see their next attack theyll have a score card for
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on June 08, 2014, 05:44:00 AM
At this point do you think bolstering Israel should be 1st?
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 08, 2014, 05:57:27 AM
i do, a)in case theyre playing for middle east and b) it leaves us underpowered so we cant play for it
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on June 08, 2014, 06:17:42 AM
I'm in then.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 08, 2014, 06:25:31 AM
ive lost all memory of the mechanisms - do we sacrifice a card to be able to up influence? and the higher power the card, the more counters we get

and does the card still get played or sacrificed?
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on June 08, 2014, 06:34:55 AM
I need to review the game rules later after taking my kids to visit their grandparents. I'll try to be ready for this eve.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 08, 2014, 06:54:11 AM
good stuff - have a good day stagger
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: GJK on June 08, 2014, 07:28:49 AM
I'll post the same for the commies, but here's a "quick play" guide that should help get you guys back up to speed with the game play.
Title: Quick help guide
Post by: GJK on June 08, 2014, 07:30:50 AM
I posted a copy of this for Team USA and so wanted to fair and share it with you guys.  It's the best cheatsheet that I've found that should help you refresh yourselves with the game procedures (should you need it...).
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 08, 2014, 07:43:14 AM
right so , we need a high ops point card, and that card gets put in play before we get the points - we can play US or USSSR card
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 08, 2014, 07:47:27 AM
duck and cover for 3 or marshall plan for 4 - but if we play marshall plan we hammer the commies for all kinds of influence too
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on June 08, 2014, 08:06:12 AM
The Marshall plan is tempting, innit.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 08, 2014, 08:08:37 AM
it is - we carpet bomb europe with influence and get to up our Middle Eastern influence by 4 - doesnt have to be all israel

i didnt realise he was so strong in two places down there - 2 israel, so back to 4, 1 in syria and gulf states?
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on June 09, 2014, 05:07:31 AM
Well, that should give our red playmates something to chew over.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on June 09, 2014, 05:03:48 PM
Lets do it! Those Rose-tinted Rascals are getting too confident.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: GJK on June 09, 2014, 08:13:11 PM
Marshall Plan for 4 then?  Where would you all like to place the 4?
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 10, 2014, 03:42:59 AM
for me id say 2 back on israel we just lost, 1 in gulf states and 1 in syria

gulf and syria have scary neighbours
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: Staggerwing on June 10, 2014, 04:12:12 AM
Sounds good Geek. I concur.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: bob48 on June 10, 2014, 04:25:09 AM
Agreed.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: GJK on June 10, 2014, 05:43:04 AM
Great!  I'll work up the play tonight when I get home.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: undercovergeek on June 10, 2014, 06:12:56 AM
thanks man
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on June 11, 2014, 09:23:06 PM
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_R2_USA_Event_News.jpg)
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on June 11, 2014, 09:26:40 PM
 (http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_R2_USA.jpg)


Team USA has elected to play "Marshall Plan" for the Ops (4). 

The log is below:

Quote
*** American plays Marshall Plan* for 4 Ops.
U.S. Influence in Gulf States was increased from 1 to 2.
U.S. Influence in Syria was increased from 1 to 2.
U.S. Influence in Israel was increased from 2 to 4.
* American player updated turn to Turn 2, Round 2: Soviet

The event was NOT triggered since it is a US friendly event and thus the card will be shuffled back in to the deck.

Team USSR is now on the clock for Round 3.

The updated map can be seen at http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/Twilight_Struggle_Map.jpg
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on June 12, 2014, 06:11:53 AM
So...comrades...do we wish to try to react to the decadent dogs' incursions into the Middle East, or do we wish to spread the People's Revolution further in Europe?

The Arab-Israeli War card is useless as an Event right now...with a -4 to a die roll it's impossible for our Lenin-aligned Arab bretheren to win. It could be used for 2 OPS though.

We could play Containment for OPS. It's been a while but that would mean the event would not fire and it would go back into the deck, correct? So playing UN Intervention with it would be useless, correct?

Nasser would only be half effective, as there is no US influence there now, but still, 2 INF in Egypt. To me that's more of a reactionary move and not a progressive one.

With European Scoring in our hand, I think we need to look at placing INF in Europe. With that Middle East Scoring card in our hand as well, this worries me greatly.

What do you think? And Comrade Ubercat, if I've missed something please do set me straight. I think you have the best grasp on this game out of the three of us.
Title: Re: USA Turn 2 Discussions
Post by: GJK on June 12, 2014, 08:40:36 AM
Here is your current hand:
(http://www.garykrockover.com/TS/T2_R2_USA_Hand_aweavasdfawe.jpg)
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 2
Post by: Ubercat on June 15, 2014, 06:30:57 PM
I didn't even realize that they finally took their turn. I may need a couple of days to change gears and give this a serious look.
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 2
Post by: Ubercat on July 02, 2014, 05:39:42 AM
Man, is it hard to get back up to speed and in gear when the game moves at such a glacial pace.

We do have a crappy hand this turn. Containment is a US event, which means that it will fire if we play it for Ops. We can either UN Intervention it, space it, or wait until late in the turn to play it when the event will do them the least good.

We badly need the Ops, so I vote "no" to spacing it. I'll look at this more after work.
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 2
Post by: Ubercat on July 02, 2014, 08:10:15 PM
I think we should UN intervention Containment. We could coup Italy (somewhat risky). We'd get control on rolling a 6. A 3, 4 or 5 would at least cost them control of the country. This would have the added benefit of giving us some Mil Ops. If our coup costs them control, they'll have to spend OP's to get it back or else we immediately score Europe and get a couple of VP's.
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 2
Post by: Barthheart on July 02, 2014, 08:23:00 PM
Yep, agree.
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on July 03, 2014, 06:38:30 AM
Good plan, comrade.

Spacing is nyet the answer, especially since the West doesn't seem concerned with that track. If we pull this off in Italy, we are going to hose them but good in Europe.
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 2
Post by: Ubercat on July 04, 2014, 06:53:05 PM
OK, then. Final answer. We play UN Intervention to (safely) use the 3 Ops from Containment to coup Italy.
Title: Re: Turn 2, AR 2
Post by: GJK on July 05, 2014, 09:52:22 AM
Great!  I'll work this up at some point today and post it.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Barthheart on September 22, 2014, 12:38:07 PM
Are we going to continue this or are we done? Gary you still interested in running it?
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: GJK on September 22, 2014, 12:41:26 PM
I am!  I kind of gathered that we had a general loss of interest in continuing but if you guys want to go on, I'm game.  I'll catch up on where we left off and then do whatever is needed to move forward- if that's the consensus.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Ubercat on September 22, 2014, 08:34:17 PM
I'm out. The game is just taking too long to be able to maintain awareness of the overall situation. When the game is finally updated, there's way too much overhead (for every single card play  :buck2:) in getting back up to speed.

Sorry, guys. If you want to continue you can advertise for a replacement for me, though having one less person to await input or votes from may marginally speed things up.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: bob48 on September 23, 2014, 10:50:03 AM
I must admit, I've sorta lost the plot with it a bit as well. Sorry.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 23, 2014, 10:54:09 AM
I hate to pile on, but I'm in agreement. It was fun but catching up is going to take more time that I'm not going to be able to invest for a month or so.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 23, 2014, 10:58:00 AM
Sounds like you guys might be ready to pull the plug on this.  If y'all decide you want to stand up another head-to-head game, let me know and we'll separate out the forum groups again.
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: undercovergeek on September 23, 2014, 12:13:58 PM
I winnnnnnnnnnnnn!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: bob48 on September 23, 2014, 12:28:47 PM
Sounds like you guys might be ready to pull the plug on this.  If y'all decide you want to stand up another head-to-head game, let me know and we'll separate out the forum groups again.

Thanks Brant.

Also thanks to Gary for the work he did on it. Sorry it went a bit pear-shaped, but maybe we'll get another chance at some point. O0
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: BanzaiCat on September 23, 2014, 01:18:37 PM
Yeah, Gary...you did some outstanding work and it's much appreciated!
Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: Barthheart on September 23, 2014, 01:21:20 PM
Ok, looks like we're done. Thanks Gary for all the work you did. I really like the headline style you used.

Thanks to all the players. It was fun to see this played this way. It was only my second game.

Title: Re: DEC-2013 Twilight Struggle Game Turn 2
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 23, 2014, 01:39:59 PM
I'm going to collapse all the threads for this game into one and archive it.  If you guys want another one, pls LMK and I'll set it up
Title: DEC 2013 TS forum game archive thread
Post by: bayonetbrant on September 23, 2014, 01:41:46 PM
storing the old posts in one place
Title: Re: DEC 2013 TS forum game archive
Post by: Staggerwing on September 23, 2014, 06:33:42 PM
Gary, I also want to thank you for all the hard work you put into this game, creating the immersive elements and tactfully shepherding all of us through our game choices and turns.  O0
Title: Re: DEC 2013 TS forum game archive
Post by: undercovergeek on September 23, 2014, 06:52:57 PM
Gary, I also want to thank you for all the hard work you put into this game, creating the immersive elements and tactfully shepherding all of us through our game choices and turns.  O0

What he said, made me want to buy the board game
Title: Re: DEC 2013 TS forum game archive
Post by: GJK on September 24, 2014, 06:28:50 AM
You're welcome guys.  My fault for letting it crumble...my real life found me playing the events on the cards that I was being dealt at the time and that took away the time and motivation to contribute to this. 

I'm up for trying it again at any time.  Maybe we can learn something from what we started and find a better way to streamline it in order to speed things up a bit.  It does become a bit tough to follow when several days go by between hands.

Thanks to you all for your cooperation and participation!!
Title: Re: DEC 2013 TS forum game archive
Post by: Barthheart on September 24, 2014, 07:50:56 AM
Just read through all this including the US threads.... great fun to see the other side of the game as it played out.

Thanks again all for a fun ride.

 O0
Title: Re: DEC 2013 TS forum game archive
Post by: undercovergeek on September 24, 2014, 08:22:43 AM
damn there was going to be a big fight for Italy,

as i suspected!!!