GrogHeads Forum

Digital Gaming => Ally/Opponent Finder => Dominions III LFG and Strategy Discussion => Topic started by: JasonPratt on April 03, 2013, 09:16:14 AM

Title: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 03, 2013, 09:16:14 AM
REGISTRATIONS CLOSED

(Yskonyn is currently running a Late Age (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4996.0) and a Early Age (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4861.0) game; but has said that he's too busy to admin or (if I recall correctly) even play a third game for the Middle Ages of Dominions 3.

Undercovergeek is also running a delayed AAR thread on the Grogheads Early Age game if members want to look more closely at how things work here (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5134.0).)

(Note: the parallel thread at Wargamers is here. (http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=586191))


Last update: April 12, 2013

Host:PBEM Llamaserver.
Official game name: GROGHAMMER!! (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Groghammer)
Age: Middle
Map: Faerun 466 No specials (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showpost.php?p=643390)
How Often on Turns: standard 48 hours to turn 20, slowing down to 72 hours late game if necessary.
Number of Players: 21 registered
Mods:  CBM 1.94 mod (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=998) (if we agree).

I also personally use the Streamers and Standards Mod (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39989) (llamabeast version), Upgraded Sprites Mod (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=707)  and the Community Sprites Mod (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=80). These are not necessary for the game however, and you do not have to install them, at your preference.
You can download Yskon's modfolder from here: Mods Folder (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/jyb7d6lrf2qzuw0/IjGxJEdP-b).

Non-Standard Settings: Special Site freq. 45%, Hall of Fame entries 15, Renaming is allowed, No graphs, Independents 7
Victory Conditions: Whoever reaches 14 victory points first. Victory points are only found in capitols, and the player must hold all 14 simultaneously. A shared victory alliance is also allowed: all remaining factions have agreed to share victory and not continue the game. (Note that as a dominating faction approaches 14 points, the remaining factions may request an extension if by alliance or alliances they still think they have a chance against someone who has probably already taken 2/3 of a very large map.)
Diplomacy Policy: None; do as you wish, keeping in mind consequences in future games, as well as later in that game (if you stab someone early, any alliance later in that game is likely to prove less trustworthy). Trades should be fulfilled
Cheesy Tricks: New players won't know them and won't be ready for them. This is things like sending 50 bad items to someone right as they put up forge of the ancients to make them waste gems; using scouts to constantly siege someone's fortress; and there are probably a few others I historically read about but have since forgotten.

To make it easier for players to find topics for future reference, I shall label them as giant questions.

WHO ARE THE PLAYERS AND WHAT ARE THEIR FACTIONS/NATIONS?

PLAYERS: NATIONS
Beezelboss: Pythium (snaky angelic Romans)
Bison: Caelum (icy winged humans)
Byrdman57: Eriu (human elf-heirs but non-shooty)
Claes: Mictlan (bloody Aztecs)
Elitesix: Atlantis (like Davy Jones' crew from the movies)
Huw the Poo: Arcoscephale (not-especially-mythological ancient Greece)
JasonPratt: Oceana (mythy Greek underwater)
King of the Scots: T'ien Chi (ancient Chinese secret humans)
Lunaje: Marignon (holy flaming Spanish Inquisition)
mkivcs: Ermor (Roman Empire becoming undead)
Myrmidon: Ulm (Germanic humans dressed like Panzers)
Ogaburan: Ashdod (Middle Eastern heirs to giants)
Philippe: Abyssia (squishy fire and blood humans + lizards)
Phobos: Shinuyama (pre-samurai Japanese goblins)
PsiSoldier: R'yleh (crazy evil underwater psi soldiers)(no relation)(hopefully)
ScottWAR: Man's Tower of Avalon (shooty English heirs to the elves)
tkati: Pangaea (mythic Grecian troops)
Ubercat: Jotenheim (frost giants and witches)
Undercovergeek: Machaka (zulu spider witches)(damn if that doesn't sound awesome!)
Vlam: Agartha (underground golem makers with some cave giants)
W8aminute: Vanheim (vikings, dwarves, Norse elven giants)

GAMESTART CRITERIA!! -- THE GAME WILL START ONCE THE FINAL REGISTERED PLAYER SUBMITS HIS PRETENDER!!

The original post was too long to include the players:nations list, so I've moved a whole bunch of anticipated questions (including how to play it by email) down here (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5408.msg129292#msg129292).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 03, 2013, 11:42:36 AM
I'm in! I still need to look into the nations though; never played in the middle ages before.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Ubercat on April 03, 2013, 11:57:50 AM
I'm in! I'll take Jotunheim, Alex, for 500.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Vlam on April 03, 2013, 12:13:02 PM
Good job dude!

I'm in too, my first MA game ever.
I'll go with MA Agartha.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 03, 2013, 12:16:59 PM
Nice work Jason.  I already have two games on the go so I'll skip this one, but you guys are going to have a blast!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 03, 2013, 02:13:45 PM
Some Anticipated Questions (the original post was too long for me to add players and factions!--so I moved most of its material down here.)


HOW MANY PLAYERS WILL WE HAVE?

As many as who want to play. I think there's a hard limit of 25 players per game, but I'll look into that.


WHAT MAP WILL WE USE?

Since this is a choice that has, by direct experiment, delayed game start more than any other, I will exercise admin priv and answer, "Whichever map I damn well want to use."  ;D

I won't settle on that until I have an idea of how many people will be in the game, however. Also, if someone has a problem with a map I suggest, I'll try another suggestion.

After that I'll post instruction on how to get and use the chosen map. Until then don't worry about it.


CAN WE HAVE A GAME WITH TWO OR ALL THREE AGES?

Technically yes, but I'm unsure how to set one up on Llama yet. I'll investigate for future reference.


WILL WE HAVE A-I OPPONENTS?

Probably not since this game is for newbies, but I'm not against getting a map big enough for all the slots to be filled out by AI (so that all factions will play in the game).


CAN WE PLAY UNDERWATER FACTIONS?

Underwater factions have special advantages and difficulties, making them especially easy and especially hard for new players, while also being especially hard for new players to deal with while being especially easy for experienced players to exploit.

So I'm inclined to say, if someone wants to play an underwater faction, that person is banned from all alliances and shall be the target of every other player. Fair?


WHAT ARE THE MIDDLE AGE FACTIONS ANYWAY?

I'll have a new post on that soon.


IS THIS GAME FRIENDLY FOR NEWBIES?

Note 1.1: Please mind that this is supposed to be a newbie friendly game, so leave the stronger nations for the newbies and be so kind as to choose a weaker nation if you have enough experience with Dom 3. We should all be able to learn from each other. (Also note however that some factions are so overpowered or hated that everyone will instantly ally against them, so an experienced player may prefer to go "contra mundum" with those.)

WHAT DOES "INDEPENDENT 7" MEAN AND WHY IS THAT IMPORTANT?

Note 1.2: That "Independent" level of 7 means there will likely be some fairly strong bandits infesting unclaimed territories. While they won't go out and attack, this will make expansion difficult at first and provide buffers between factions. This can help new players survive longer (by insulating them from other factions who are more of a threat), but on the other hand you may get trounced badly while trying to expand and end up well behind the improvement curve. As with just about everything in this game there are pros and cons to everything, but this leads to the question of when/how to quit.

CAN I, THE PLAYER, QUIT WHENEVER I WISH?

Note 1.3: If you think your situation is hopeless, convert your side to an AI faction, or if you don't know how email me (or post here on the thread) and I'll admin your faction over into the AI. Don't just ignore the game, because if that happens the Llamaserver will always take the maximum time to resolve the turns and the game will slow down for the rest of us. Which leads to the question of stalling the game.

WHAT HAPPENS IF SOMEONE STALLS THE GAME?

Note 1.4: If a player stalls the game three times and I can't get in touch with you, I'm going to start looking for ways to kick your faction out of the game or AI it. I'll do it non-judgmentally (because horrible things happen in real life that prevent us from getting back to games), but I'll do it to protect the flow of the game for the rest of us. LET ME KNOW IF POSSIBLE!


WHAT DOES THE HOSTING TIME MEAN?

Note 2.1: It tells the server how long to wait before generating a new turn automatically. The standard hosting time can be extended whenever I want, so if you know you aren't going to be available for more than 2 days let me know and I'll temporarily increase the turnaround time. My Grog account has an email button and a pmail button under my avatar to the left of any of my posts, or you can post here on the thread.

CAN WE HAVE A SLOWER TURNAROUND TIME?

If a player wants a slower turnaround time as standard, discuss it here; we're generally pretty flexible.

CAN WE HAVE A FASTER TURNAROUND TIME?

Keep in mind that even with a slow turnaround time, the Llamaserver allows us to move along as quickly as everyone can manage. We could have five or ten turns a day (in theory) if everyone is on the ball and sending their turns back! If the Llamaserver time expires, however, it will generate a new turn with the assumption that anyone who hasn't sent in a turn simply did nothing that turn. Anything your faction would automatically do continues onward of course, so you won't have to worry about that.

IF SOMEONE MISSES A TURN CAN WE RELOAD AND GO BACK?

Note 2.2: While we can start new games fresh, we cannot roll back a turn. (Llamaserver theoretically allows this, but the feature is bugged and corrupts save games.) This leads into the topic of  the most likely reason we have to restart the game early.


GAHH!!--I STARTED MY FIRST TURN AND THE GAME ACCUSED ME OF CHEATING AND ALTERED MY PRETENDER AND I DON'T KNOW WHAT HAPPENED AAAHHH!!

Note 3: When you are creating your pretender, MAKE SURE YOU HAVE INSTALLED THE BALANCE MOD AND ALSO ACTIVATED IT IN-GAME!! This must be done first. Otherwise what will happen is that the game will activate the mod for you once the game officially starts, and then list you as trying to hack the game with your pretender, adjusting your pretender for you to fit somehow. (This happened to me myself on my first multiplayer game with the balance mod!) This leads now to the topic of installing mods.


MOD INSTALLING CAN BE HARD -- HOW HARD IS IT IN DOM3?

Note 4: Installing mods is easy. The only mod you'll absolutely have to install is the balance mod listed above, CBM 1.94 (a popular balance mod). You can download that from the link provided, or you can download Ysk's mod folder from his dropbox link provided (which will include the listed graphic mods, too).

If you download Ysk's mod folder, just copy or move it into the Dom3 folder where its "mod" folder is, to replace that folder. If you download the CBM (or graphic mods) directly, unzip them somewhere (ideally into the Dom3 "mod" folder) and then move them into the mod folder. Generally there will be multiple files unzipped, so move them all.

Once this is done, when you boot up Dom3 the game will show icons in the upper right. This indicates the mods are present but not necessarily that they're enabled yet.

Thus you must go to the main Dom3 menu, click the "Preferences" button, and in the next list you'll see at the bottom "Mod preferences". Click that, and you should now see a window showing all available mods and which ones are are already enabled. Just to be safe, click each mod and see what changes. You want to make sure at least the CBM mod is enabled before you create your pretender for the game.


Note 5: If we vote to go vanilla instead, I still recommend to go for Worthy Heroes (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=122) too (included in CBM already) to make recruiting Heroes better balanced for all nations.


Note 6: I want to put a very good project into the spotlight made by a player called momfreak.
Mod Inspector (http://dom3-mod-inspector.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/index.html?page=item&selectmods=1)

This webpage enables you to select some mods that you will be using for the game and then display accurate information about all the spells and items in the game.
You can also view the stock vanilla game data with this webpage. Super handy as reference.


HOW DO WE START THE GAME?

Note 7.1: Once I create the game on Llamaserver (which I won't do until I choose a map) you will all need to send your pretender to Llamaserver. This kind of counts as turn 0.

HOW DO WE SEND OUR PRETENDER TO THE GAME SERVER?

You must send your pretender file as an attachment to: pretenders@llamaserver.net

You absolutely must put the name of the game (and nothing else) in the email title. The title of the game is Groghammer (no exclamation points ;) ). Don't put anything in the body of the email.

WHERE CAN I FIND THE PRETENDER I CREATED SO I CAN SEND MY PRETENDER IN?

You can find your pretender file in your Dominions 3\savegames\newlords folder.
It has a file format <era>_<nation>_#.2h

Usually that filename at the end will be 0.2h, but if you try multiple pretender options for the same era and nation the game will save them as 1.2h, 2.2h, etc. You can send any of those to Llamaserver. Dom3 is not good about easily identifying which pretender version you're sending! -- nor does the game allow you to load up and tweak a previously created pretender. So it will be up to you to make a note somewhere that your first pretender was a vampire queen and the second was a red dragon, and the third was the vampire queen again but with some different magic options than the first one; and if you decide to go with the red dragon pretender you'll have to send the 1.2h file.

You can send a replacement pretender this way, too: it will overwrite any pretenders you've already sent for the same era/nation.

This is the most difficult part of participating in the game. Everything else is much easier...

DOES THE MULTIPLAYER GAME SAVE TO THE DOM3 SAVEGAME FOLDER, OR WHAT EXACTLY?

Note 7.2: Once you've sent in your pretender (or even before then), create a new folder inside the Dom3 "savegame" folder, and name it something you'll recognize as this game. (Don't use spaces in naming it, or Dom3 won't recognize it. Underscores_like_this are fine.)

IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE WE MUST DO TO START THE GAME ROLLING?

Note 7.3:  Yes, you must give me an email address for you to send and receive game turns with.

After all the pretenders have been sent in (AND AFTER YOU HAVE GIVEN ME AN EMAIL ADDRESS FOR YOU TO SEND AND RECEIVE YOUR TURNS), I'll kick off the game and you will receive your first turn in the mail. Specifically you'll receive an email with a message from the server saying this is your new game turn, and it will come with an attachment.

WHAT DO I DO WHEN I RECEIVE MY FIRST TURN IN THE MAIL?

Download the attachment, which will have a .trn on the end, and save it into that folder you created for this particular game. I also recommend you keep this email somewhere at least until you receive the next turn.

I HAVEN'T RECEIVED A NEW TURN YET -- WHAT CAN I DO?

Note 7.3.1: I'll provide a link up above to the Llamaserver page for the game once we start, which is mostly useful for checking which turns have been received and if new turns have been sent out. If it says your turn has been sent and you don't have it yet, you can click a button on that page for resending your turn. This usually fixes the problem.

I RECEIVED A TURN BUT WHEN I TRY TO USE IT THE GAME CALLS IT CORRUPTED! WHAT THE HELL NOW?!

Note 7.3.2: Very rarely your turn may be sent corrupted. If so get it resent. If it's still corrupted, let me know; I'll probably be able to email it to you myself, and that usually fixes the problem from there onward.

OKAY I'VE DOWNLOADED MY NEW TURN TO THE FOLDER FOR THIS MULTIPLAYER GAME -- NOW WHAT?

Note 7.4: Now start up Dom3, and click the "Play an ongoing game" button (or whatever it's called, not the new game button) on the first menu. Dom3 will look around for ongoing games, and if you named your folder right and put your .trn file in that folder, this game will show up as an option. You'll have to click to select it, and then affirm your selection with another click on the button for actually playing the game.

Dom3 will then give you another window showing it's ready to load turn whatever of the "Middle Age {your faction here}" game. You can cancel and go back if you're preparing the wrong game, otherwise click on that name to continue. From here on you're in the game doing your various things for your turn, starting off by reading any messages, watching movies of battles, etc. (This part isn't necessarily easy.  ;D )

CAN WE SAVE THE GAME WITHOUT ENDING A TURN, OR START OVER FRESH ON A TURN IF WE MADE A MISTAKE?

Note 7.5: You can go to the "option" menu while playing your turn and quit out of your game without saving, or save the game and quit. This won't end the turn yet, but it will allow you to come back later and finish your turn or start over fresh on it. (Loading any game you've already done things with will give you the option to continue or start over fresh.)

HOW DO WE END THE TURN WHEN WE'RE DONE?

The first item on the menu in the upper right of the screen should be the "End Turn" button. Clicking that will save your game and take you back to the screen where your game is listed to activate or cancel -- except now you'll see a minus sign to the left of your game name. That's okay, it only means you've done things for your turn. If you're ready to email back, you can cancel and go back through the menus to quit the game, or you can Win-key out or alt-tab (if you're feeling lucky or have experimented already about how stable Dom3 is with your operating system!) and keep the game running while you email your turn. But I prefer to quit for emailing.

At any time before or even after you email your turn, you can load up the game and choose to either continue your turn from when you saved it (even after "end turn") or to start your turn over fresh. Just be sure to email your new version of your turn before the server processes it!

HOW DO I SEND MY TURN IN NOW?

Note 7.6: Now email your turn back to turns@llamaserver.net

The easiest thing to do is to find where Llamaserver sent you your turn, and reply to it, attaching your new turn to the email. (This is why I recommended keeping your turn!) But if you want to create a new email from scratch that's okay, too.

You can find your new turn by opening the Dom3 folder, the "savegame" folder, and then the folder you created for this game. There should be two files in that folder now, both with the same name (your faction and the age) but with different extensions. (There should never be any more than two files in this folder.) The .trn file was sent to you, and when the server sends you another turn it'll have exactly the same name and will replace this.

The .2h file is what you'll attach to the email and send to Llama. You can put anything you want in the text body (I put nothing), and you can title the email anything you want.

Note that you ONLY send that .2h file. Never send the .trn file.

I'VE ALREADY SENT MY TURN BUT I CHANGED MY MIND ABOUT SOME THINGS -- CAN I REDO MY TURN?

Yes, so long as the server hasn't received all players' turns yet. (If you're the last one to send in, too bad!) If you redo your turn, "end turn" will overwrite that .2h file and you'll have to remail it to the server.

I WANT TO DO AN AFTER ACTION REPORT OR STUDY MY TURNS LATER -- HOW DO I DO THAT?

When you generate a new turn, the game will overwrite that file; and when you receive a new turn the game will overwrite that file. So if you plan to do an After Action Report, keep all your sent .2h files and received .trn files separately somewhere like in a special folder of your email.

Then create a whole other game folder in your savegame files, with a name that you can recognize for studying your game. If you put a .trn file into that folder, you'll load up at the very start of your turn; if you put a .2h file in, you'll load up at the end of your turn. Note that you'll need the .trn file for watching battle movies.


That's it. The Llamaserver will email you back a notice if it receives your turn and it scanned okay.  Sometimes however the server burps and this notice is never sent, so don't worry too much about it. It may look like a new turn has already been sent, but once you open it you'll be able to quickly tell it isn't -- most importantly it will have no attachment with a .trn extension.


That may all seem complicated, but that's because I'm discussing some things from experience. The actual process is quite easy once you do it once or twice. Make sure you don't save your received turns to the wrong folder, though!--but if you do can always just move them to the correct folder, the turn isn't likely to overwrite anything (unless you're playing another Middle Age game with the same faction and accidentally save it to that folder instead).


For a FAQ on Llamaserver go here (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=35160)

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Vlam on April 03, 2013, 03:02:35 PM
You can set up a game with three ages with a mod (don't remember the name), but it's not balanced: this game is balanced era by era ;) .

I'll buy those giant golem to stomp everyone, you'll see!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 03, 2013, 03:10:59 PM
Faction list for Middle Age (remaining factions in bold):

ABYSIA BLOOD AND FIRE -- flamey magma humans (and magma lizards) who also deal in blood magic. [Currently claimed by Philippe]

AGARTHA GOLEM CULT -- underground humans who like clay statues and worship mostly-departed cyclopian giants. [Currently claimed by Vlam]

ARCOSCEPHALE OLD KINGDOM -- ancient Greeks with slightly out of date tech and no mythological troops, but with elephants and cheap magic across all schools. [Currently claimed by the Poo.]

ASHDOD REIGN OF THE ANAKIM -- pre-Jewish Palestinian giants but not so gianty and more death-magicky than they used to be. [Currently claimed by Ogaburan.]

ATLANTIS KINGS OF THE DEEP -- basic underwater froggy-fishy faction, lobsters, coral, water mages. Like Davy Jones' crew in the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. [Currently claimed by Elitesix]

BANDAR-LOG LAND OF THE APES -- Hindu ape faction. FREE AGAIN FOR CLAIMING!

CAELUM REIGN OF THE SERAPHIM -- icy winged human faction. [Currently claimed by Bison.]

C'TIS MIASMA -- swampy lizardmen. FREE AGAIN FOR CLAIMING!

ERIU LAST OF THE TUATHA -- humans of elven descent with the nature magic but not the archery, plus some sidhe. [Currently claimed by Brydman57.]

ERMOR BROKEN EMPIRE -- post-Christian Rome starts going undead. [Currently claimed by mkivcs]

JOTENHEIM IRON WOODS -- frost giants and witches. Also, mooses. Moose. Mice. Meeses. Those things. [Currently Ubercat claims the Iron Mice!]

MACHAKA REIGN OF SORCERERS -- Zulus and spiders, nature and death magic. [Currently Undergroundgeek claims them.]

MAN TOWER OF AVALON -- pre-Christian English knights, longbowmen, nature witches. [Currently claimed by ScottWAR.]

MARIGNON FIERY JUSTICE -- Spanish Inquisition, knights and fire magic, heir to old Ermor. [Currently claimed by Lunaje]

MICTLAN REIGN OF THE LAWGIVER -- Aztecs with wider magic but no more blood magic. [Currently claimed by Claes.]

OCEANIA COMING OF THE CAPRICORNS -- ancient Greek underwater faction, nature and water magic. [Currently claimed by Jason]

PANGAEA AGE OF BRONZE -- ancient Greek myth troops.[Currently claimed by tkati]

PYTHIUM EMERALD EMPIRE -- angelic snakey ancient Romans, heir to old Ermor. [Currently claimed by Beelzeboss.]

R'LYEH FALLEN STAR -- Lovecraftian water faction. Super evil and crazy. [Currently claimed by PsiSoldier]

SHINUYAMA BAKEMONO -- pre-Samurai Japanese goblin faction. [Currently claimed by Phobos.]

T'IEN CH'I IMPERIAL BUREAUCRACY -- ancient Chinese humans. [Currently claimed by King of the Scots]

FORGES OF ULM -- heavy armored Germanic humans. [Currently claimed by Myrmidon.]

VANHEIM ARRIVAL OF MAN -- Norse troops, dwarves, valkyrie, some elven giants. [Currently claimed by W8aminute
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 03, 2013, 03:11:59 PM
I'll buy those giant golem to stomp everyone, you'll see!

Yeah?! Well, my apes will... um... scamper away! Very very effectively!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 03, 2013, 04:23:42 PM
ok - machaka me baby
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 03, 2013, 07:23:00 PM
I think I'm gonna give Eriu a try. Let's see how badly I fail with that one.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 04, 2013, 03:31:36 AM
Did you put this at desura and shrapnel too?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 04, 2013, 06:19:19 AM
Did you put this at desura and shrapnel too?

Not yet; anyone who wishes to do so, please do! (I have 'work' work, and an article to finish writing today.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: W8taminute on April 04, 2013, 09:35:40 AM
Can I play too?  I don't have any preferences for which race I get.  I'm still a big noob with this game and expect to get slaughtered soon but I want to see how multiplayer works and learn a thing or two about the game.   :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 04, 2013, 10:12:04 AM
Sure!--but you'll still need to pick a faction eventually. :) I'll add you to the list.

This thread has only been up for one day, and invitation threads at Desura and Wargamer and Shrapnel still need to be set up, so there's still plenty of time for new players. I don't anticipate starting until late next week probably.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Yskonyn on April 04, 2013, 11:04:05 AM
Yay! Well done, Jason!
Eventhough I will not play, I will keep tabs on this thread! :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 04, 2013, 03:26:50 PM
Can I play too?  I don't have any preferences for which race I get.  I'm still a big noob with this game and expect to get slaughtered soon but I want to see how multiplayer works and learn a thing or two about the game.   :)

dont worry - we're all noobs - and with that comes a certain amount of etiquette i think. the understanding that were all new and were turtling and trying out formations and different spells - you only need to worry when we run out of indy provinces!! by then you should have a rough idea of what to do anyway
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Myrmidon on April 04, 2013, 07:06:01 PM
Greetings!

Can i get in on this game?  I'd like to play as Ulm if it is still available.  I've got some experience in SP, but none in an MP game yet.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 04, 2013, 07:19:41 PM
Ulm was just recently taken by someone named Myrmidon.

 ;D

But seriously, I'll add you to the list pronto.


Welcome to the forum, too! Did you get news of the call for players somewhere else? Just curious.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Myrmidon on April 04, 2013, 10:12:40 PM
Nope, just a long time lurker. I'm looking forward to delving into the MP aspect of the game.  Thanks for the welcome!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 04, 2013, 11:45:17 PM
Welcome to Grogheads, Myrmidon!  Enjoy the game. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 05, 2013, 06:25:25 AM
I'm looking to set up a WW1Gold PBEM campaign (four player if possible), too, btw. (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5425.0)


Meanwhile, I hope people are setting up invitation threads elsewhere, because I sure haven't yet! I have now set up a parallel thread at Wargamers (http://www.wargamer.com/forums/posts.asp?t=586191), but I don't even have a Shrapnel or Desra account yet. (Wonder if Matrix has a general A/OF category...?)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 05, 2013, 10:06:50 AM
Ill do des and matrix tonight
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: CptHowdy on April 05, 2013, 11:39:49 AM
i'd like to jump in on this. i will take the C'tis(lizardmen) thanks!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 05, 2013, 12:01:26 PM
Thanks U'geek!

Welcome in Cpt!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: claes on April 05, 2013, 12:35:19 PM
I am in!  However this is my first multiplayer game and it could very well take forever to read up in all of the factions.  Can someone suggest a strong beginner faction?  Note that I will not be playing to win, I will be playing to learn and meet other players, so while I will be trying I know that I will be making mistakes and I intend to learn from them.  Please let me know as to the factions, but count me in as a player ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 05, 2013, 12:41:00 PM
Welcome claes - that's the spirit the games been played in anyway - its cool you've jumped in

I can send a few starter races later - at work now - I'm sure someone will jump in before then though
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 05, 2013, 12:45:45 PM
Welcome to Grogheads, Claes!  Feel free to join in discussions on the rest of the forum too. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 05, 2013, 02:23:35 PM
If I was capable of understanding the various nations' strengths and weaknesses, I would make a suggestions. As it is, I just pick em based on how cool their units look  ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 05, 2013, 02:25:07 PM
Welcome, Claes!

The faction list, updated with scratched out choices already called, can be found here (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5408.msg129306#msg129306), upthread.

(Players who have already claimed a faction, please check this list and the first post with its current player:nation list, to make sure I'm updating everyone correctly.)

Most of the easy factions have been taken already. Out of the remainder, I'd look at:

Man (because they're a pretty normal "English" faction)
Marignon (good armored troops plus holy and fire magic, simple and effective)

Going outside the box a bit for an easy faction:
Ashdod (above-average starting troops for helping build a foundation into middle and endgame)
Vanheim (ditto Ashdod, but with the advantage of having permanent mirror illusions on troops, increasing their defense dramatically in early game)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: claes on April 05, 2013, 03:59:30 PM
Sign me up, it is my first multiplayer game but I'll give it a go.  I think I'll try Mictlan for this one as there seems to be some good guides, and for the most part I will be playing to learn ;)  Thanks for setting this up.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age game (2 day turnaround) -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 05, 2013, 06:07:49 PM
First post has now been updated with the provisional name of the game and the map, with links to the Llamaserver info page for the game, and for downloading the map set.

Unzipping the map set should give two files, an image file and a data file; put both in the "maps" folder inside the main Dom3 folder.


Note that as/if more players sign up, I will look for a larger but equally epic map. I'll try to stay away from wraparound maps but keep in mind that wrappers neutralize corner advantages by putting everyone (in effect) in "the center", so in that sense it's actually easier for new players. (Warhammer isn't a wraparound map, but some other epic maps are.)

That may seem like a lot of territories, but it should give everyone an average of two steps from home base to play with.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 05, 2013, 06:18:26 PM
This by the way means players can start sending in pretenders. Don't worry, it won't auto start; if you change your mind you can send in another one.

I will however need a list of the email addresses from everyone that you intend to play the game with; email or pmail those to me, please.


W8, don't forget you haven't chosen a nation yet!--factions are being taken up at a pretty steady rate!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 05, 2013, 07:35:06 PM
One thing about that map is it seems there are a lot of island land provinces with no connections across the water. In a test game I started on the very bottom, and there were only 4 land provinces within reach without coming up with some way to cross the water. Might make for a challenging start for some folks.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 05, 2013, 07:40:56 PM
Well I expect we'll grow out of the map anyway. But if we don't I'll look into either modding it myself to remove those as start areas, or to provide more connections, or look into another variation of the map.

Did you look specifically at Squirrel's version?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 05, 2013, 08:52:27 PM
I'm assuming so. I used the d/l link on the first page. The dead sea version is the same as well, just the sea provinces are worthless.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: CptHowdy on April 05, 2013, 09:09:49 PM
map downloaded and the winning pretender sent in!! good luck gentlemen!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 06, 2013, 02:30:28 AM
This by the way means players can start sending in pretenders. Don't worry, it won't auto start; if you change your mind you can send in another one.

I will however need a list of the email addresses from everyone that you intend to play the game with; email or pmail those to me, please.


W8, don't forget you haven't chosen a nation yet!--factions are being taken up at a pretty steady rate!

pm sent jason - thanks for the hard work
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 06, 2013, 06:45:09 AM
I'll fiddle with the map (unless we pick up enough players to need a larger map) and fix the island problems then.

So don't anyone download the map yet -- one way or another there will be a new map (a new variant of this one, or a larger one altogether).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Vlam on April 06, 2013, 08:28:11 AM
Fleeing monkey could be scary... ;)

Don't worry, Agartha is considered as one of the weakest MA faction too, with big potential, but horrible weaknesses.
I just need to run a few more test, then I'll send my pretender.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 06, 2013, 09:23:23 AM
Pretender submitted. Fear my glamorous elves!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Vlam on April 06, 2013, 11:34:34 AM
Pretender submitted!

Let the march of the machines golem begin!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 06, 2013, 11:39:34 AM
Erm...would it be too much of a pain if I joined in this one after all?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 06, 2013, 12:18:33 PM
Not at all a pain! -- more victims sacrifices players are always appreciated!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 06, 2013, 12:26:37 PM
Erm...would it be too much of a pain if I joined in this one after all?

\0/

yay - pick ermor - i dare ya
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 06, 2013, 12:26:39 PM
Splendid!  I'll call Arcosephale then.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 06, 2013, 12:33:33 PM
I'm thinking of upgrading the map to Westeros 1.2 (which will provide us room for another player or two if they join); but while I have a copy already (which looks quite decent via map editor), Llamaserver doesn't provide download links to it. I think I found it at one of the Shrapnel Dom3 threads. Anyone want to check on that? (I've got to go do something else for a few hours this afternoon... something... TAXING... ;) )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 06, 2013, 12:38:13 PM
I'm thinking of upgrading the map to Westeros 1.2 (which will provide us room for another player or two if they join); but while I have a copy already (which looks quite decent via map editor), Llamaserver doesn't provide download links to it. I think I found it at one of the Shrapnel Dom3 threads. Anyone want to check on that? (I've got to go do something else for a few hours this afternoon... something... TAXING... ;) )

missed out on it last night - do you still want me to post on des and shrapnel, or are we closed?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 06, 2013, 12:53:33 PM
Yes we're still open. With 10 players we're getting a bit tight on the Warhammer map; Westeros will give us room for a few more.

Go ahead and put up a thread on Desra and Shrapnel, please.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: CptHowdy on April 06, 2013, 01:41:11 PM
I'm thinking of upgrading the map to Westeros 1.2 (which will provide us room for another player or two if they join); but while I have a copy already (which looks quite decent via map editor), Llamaserver doesn't provide download links to it. I think I found it at one of the Shrapnel Dom3 threads. Anyone want to check on that? (I've got to go do something else for a few hours this afternoon... something... TAXING... ;) )

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=47697&highlight=westeros

is this the map??
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 06, 2013, 02:16:40 PM
That's it! -- I know there's a 1.5 version uploaded to Llamaserver, too, but I don't know what's different about it.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 06, 2013, 03:56:59 PM
Yes we're still open. With 10 players we're getting a bit tight on the Warhammer map; Westeros will give us room for a few more.

Go ahead and put up a thread on Desra and Shrapnel, please.

done, and matrix
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: claes on April 07, 2013, 12:06:38 AM
Ok I have downloaded the map and the mods; is there a guide somewhere that can walk me through their installation?  This is all a learning experience for me so I am not concerned as much with the outcome as much as I am with how much strategic insight I can absorb in the process. 

So is there a guide for installing the mods, and the map?  I may very well have more questions but I am hoping you can point me toward a thread where someone else has already answered them like the mods and maps and whatnot.  I'll keep looking but I'm hoping someone has a good one bookmarked already...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 07, 2013, 12:57:10 AM
claes - dont worry about it - all happy to help

download the maps and extract the folder to wherever - it doesnt need to be your dom3 folder

look inside the new folder - there will be 2 files - i THINK .rgb, .map or .tgb - copy these, go to your maps folder inside DOM 3 and simply copy them into there - thats it

to test, open dom 3 and start a new game - the map should show in there

note though i think Jason is map twiddling at the minute and/or he may be picking a new map soon
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 07, 2013, 01:13:53 AM
To install a mod, just extract the files in the archive to the mods folder in your Dom3 folder.  It's as simple as that.  Mods must also be activated, which you do from the main menu in the game ("Mod Preferences").
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: claes on April 07, 2013, 02:02:25 AM
claes - dont worry about it - all happy to help

download the maps and extract the folder to wherever - it doesnt need to be your dom3 folder

look inside the new folder - there will be 2 files - i THINK .rgb, .map or .tgb - copy these, go to your maps folder inside DOM 3 and simply copy them into there - thats it

to test, open dom 3 and start a new game - the map should show in there

note though i think Jason is map twiddling at the minute and/or he may be picking a new map soon

Great!  Thanks, I have the mods mentioned in the OP enabled and have the map in the map folder - it shows up in the game.  Next step is creating my pretender god correct?  But I don't start a game, I just save the god and then I will be emailing that file to the server for turn 0 am I on the right track so far?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 07, 2013, 02:10:02 AM
Spot on - I forget which menu its in but yeah stay clear of the game itself and just choose the create pretender option, build your god and your dominion scales and save it - send that file to the llama server - check the first post for the subject heading to place on the mail and just attach your pretender file to it - you should get an email back saying he/her/it has been received 

When the game starts you will also need a folder in saved games in dom 3 folder with the same name as the game - this is where you drop the game turns to and find the files to send to llama
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Beelzeboss on April 07, 2013, 03:43:43 AM
I would like to join as Pythium. This would be my first multiplayer game. I think I installed all the mods but do we have to use the sprite mods? In my opinion they look worse then the standard sprites.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 07, 2013, 05:39:49 AM
I would like to join as Pythium. This would be my first multiplayer game. I think I installed all the mods but do we have to use the sprite mods? In my opinion they look worse then the standard sprites.

as far as i know it doesnt care what graphics mod you have - but it will look for CBM - i would say the best way is to not import them, get the starting turn and press go - if it needs them it will tell you it cant continue without mod XXXX

and welcome to the forums and the game
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: CptHowdy on April 07, 2013, 06:25:53 AM
for future reference but about 5 posts down on page 1 of this thread is a huge Q & A post by jason that explains the steps involved in setting up the game ie..installing the mods, mailing the pretender etc... ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 07, 2013, 07:25:27 AM
^^ In more confusing depth than the fine instructions given above, however.  ;D ^^

I'll reserve Pythium for you pronto, Beez!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 07, 2013, 07:42:05 AM
Okay, I have now this morning officially upgraded the map to Westeros 1.2.

I've looked it over in the map editor and I don't see any problems -- all islands have ways clearly on and off for example. However, I may fiddle with it a bit for our game, in which case I'll append the files here as attachments for download (as well as uploading the augmented version to Llama.) Anyone who wants to look it over in the map editor to check for possible issues, let me know if you find any.

Note that we may still upgrade later to an even more epic map as/if we get more people!

(Anyone who has sent in pretenders, don't worry, my changing the map doesn't affect that.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 07, 2013, 07:57:19 AM
Some further pregame housekeeping:

0.) I've pinged W8 to remind/check if he still wants to play -- he hasn't claimed a faction yet. (That only affects him, so #0.)

1.) Some people still have not pmailed or emailed me the email address you intend to use for the game files! While not strictly necessary to play the game, I have to make this a rule because if someone drops out mid-game I have to be able to change them over to AI.

2.) Consequently, the gamestart conditions will now be set as follows:

2.1.) All pretenders of people signed up to play must be sent in.
2.2.) Once all pretenders have been sent in, I will clock roughly 24 hours for latecomers; which will be reset for any new arrivals.
2.3.) All emails must be sent to me one way or another for my admin list.

Once those conditions are met, I'll have the system start the game.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: ScottWAR on April 07, 2013, 10:09:27 AM
Hi,...Im coming from Matrix forums. I have had the game for a while, but have not played it much at all. Definitely still a newbie. Anyway I would like to play,.....I will take Man as my faction. I have the CBM, need to read up on the Llamaserver,....get the map and send you my e-mail address. Ill get on those right away.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 07, 2013, 10:13:52 AM
Welcome to Grogheads, Beelzeboss and ScottWAR!  Thanks for joining the game; I hope you have a great time.  Please feel free to look around the forum and join in the fun!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: ScottWAR on April 07, 2013, 11:03:55 AM
Ok, all set I believe. E-mail PM'ed to Jason. CBM and Westeros 1.2 downloaded and installed. Pretender created and sent to Llamaserver (verified that Man is in the list of participants). Anything I missed?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 07, 2013, 12:03:07 PM
Did you bring whisky and chocolate biscuits?

I'm sure they were compulsory

Other than that it looks good from here
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Myrmidon on April 07, 2013, 06:49:44 PM
OK.  I think I'm set.  Got the map downloaded (Beautiful map BTW), just uploaded my pretender, and got all the mods loaded.  Also, PM'd you my email address. 

If there's anything I'm missing, please let me know!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: claes on April 07, 2013, 10:07:26 PM
As I am a new player to both the game and this is my first foray into the multiplayer aspect, I was hoping that some of the more experienced players could help me with the some questions that I had pertaining to alliances.

Quote from: OP
Diplomacy Policy: None; do as you wish, keeping in mind consequences in future games, as well as later in that game (if you stab someone early, any alliance later in that game is likely to prove less trustworthy). Trades should be fulfilled.

How do you go about setting up alliances?  I mean, do you pm someone close to you and say, 'hey would you like to set up an alliance with me?'  and go from there?  And backstabbing... that tells me that there is a deeper layer of intrigue than first meets the eye, which opens up worlds of complexity for future games... my favorite multiplayer games of all time are ones that have healthy doses of intrigue ;)

Would someone talk a bit about alliances and their benefit and how they affect the game?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 08, 2013, 01:31:37 AM
There's no official alliance mechanism in the game, no 'allow XXXX access to my lands' as far as the game is concerned everyone is at war. Alliances and diplomacy can be conducted thru pm here, email or messaging in the game. When you eventually meet your neighbour its advisable to get in touch just to see what direction they're going in, is this their border or are they going any further - bear in mind you've probably met because your borders are touching and there's the odd indy province left between you - work out who's going for what lest you end up in the same province and start a war! As an example in a game here I met a neighbour who said 'I'm just taking province XXXX and will go no further' just to alleviate those nerves!

As for alliances, if you think it would be prudent to say to neighbour A 'hey I've found neighbour B, if you attack from the left, ill attack from the east' then you can carve up an enemy, of course you could tell b about a too and offer the same promise then when they've destroyed each other go get the pieces, or tell a about b and then do nothing - and then go get a now he is weaker..... Its all very machievellian and entirely open to your discretion!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 08, 2013, 07:05:54 AM
Something else worth keeping in mind is that the game doesn't distinguish directly between enemy dominions -- you can make a sort of guess from the scale effects, but scale effects also vary according to various criteria (including how strong or weak the dominion in a province is).

So if you agree with a player to stay out of his dominion, you may still need to check whether the enemy dominion area you're planning to move into is his or not.

Of course, if it's at the border of your ally's dominion, that could change between turns, but your ally should realize you planned back when it wasn't his own dominion and not hold it against you. And vice versa of course: if your ally moves into an area that wasn't your dominion but becomes it between turns, don't regard that as alliance breach.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 08, 2013, 07:10:44 AM
Also worth noting: some players are good and/or crazy and/or incompetent enough, and/or their faction is overpowered enough and/or hated enough, that they just say "screw alliance" and fight with everyone.  ;D It's admittedly a lot simpler.

The flip side of that would be the player who manages to arrange a shared victory alliance with everyone: then he can announce publicly that the game is over, everyone wins, but arguably he wins more because he's the one who arranged the mutual peace!  8) (Notice that this kind of happens anyway when the only remaining players have agreed to a shared victory alliance.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: CptHowdy on April 08, 2013, 12:50:34 PM
I will take the time now and offer my allegiance to all my neighbors. I come in peace  :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: mkivcs on April 08, 2013, 02:30:55 PM
Hi All,
         Was planning on easing myself into this game but this looks like too good an oppertunity to miss so please count me in. I'm assuming that the start date of 12th gives me a couple more days to submit a pretender. (I've not yet finsihed reading the rules which makes me about as green as can be.)

ERMOR BROKEN EMPIRE  sounds pretty tempting to me if not already taken.


cheers
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 08, 2013, 02:45:04 PM
Hi All,
         Was planning on easing myself into this game but this looks like too good an oppertunity to miss so please count me in. I'm assuming that the start date of 12th gives me a couple more days to submit a pretender. (I've not yet finsihed reading the rules which makes me about as green as can be.)

ERMOR BROKEN EMPIRE  sounds pretty tempting to me if not already taken.


cheers

welcome mkivcs - jason will be along shortly to confirm the date but it shouldnt be a problem
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: claes on April 08, 2013, 02:52:54 PM
I still need another day or two to fine tune my pretender; working on it and should have it in tomorrow or the next day.  After that I plan on devoting a certain amount of time each day to this particular mp game and shall have my turns in on time ;)

@mkivcs I am still reading too... it reminds me of the old school rpgs in the fact that you could literally devote DAYS re-rolling characters and assembling a good party - all before you have even started playing the game.  What a breath of fresh air in a market glutted with shootemups.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 08, 2013, 03:00:05 PM
Start date of the 12th seems like a good idea.

(...did I have that idea previously?)

Strictly speaking though we can't start until all pretenders are submitted; and as noted just previously I'm inclined to set/reset a 24 hour start clock once the final pretender in the current list of players is submitted, which will give last-minute players a chance to register.

Let's say gamestart will be no later than Friday the 12th, though. I'll add that to the first post. WE MAY START SOONER IF ALL CURRENT PLAYERS SEND THEIR PRETENDERS + 24 HOURS!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 08, 2013, 03:05:35 PM
Start date of the 12th seems like a good idea.

(...did I have that idea previously?)

Strictly speaking though we can't start until all pretenders are submitted; and as noted just previously I'm inclined to set/reset a 24 hour start clock once the final pretender in the current list of players is submitted, which will give last-minute players a chance to register.

Let's say gamestart will be no later than Friday the 12th, though. I'll add that to the first post. WE MAY START SOONER IF ALL CURRENT PLAYERS SEND THEIR PRETENDERS + 24 HOURS!

how you doing with player emails?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 08, 2013, 03:09:09 PM
Note: also I have checked over Westeros 1.2 in the map editor and I see no reason to update it any at this time. Everywhere that seems reasonable as non-start territories are non-started, and the islands all have neighbor links without having to cross sea zones per se. (Although some of the neighbor links are unusual.) A few islands are registered as potential starting areas, but they have links to the mainland.

I think the size should still not be particularly cramped for this number of players, so I'm not worried about upgrading the map size yet. If we pick up another couple of players I may go to a 300+ area map.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 08, 2013, 03:26:38 PM
I originally had the preparation statuses on this comment, but I've moved them down to here:

http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5408.msg131848#msg131848
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 08, 2013, 03:40:31 PM
This game is going to be epic!  I look forward to my elephants pooing in all of your capital cities!

Mkivcs: Welcome to Grogheads and to the game!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: bob48 on April 08, 2013, 03:43:27 PM
^ROFL

Thanks Huw - my only coffee spew of the day!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 08, 2013, 03:46:25 PM
JasonPratt: Bandar-Log; pretender no; email not applicable ;)

It looks like somebody already thinks they're above the rules  8)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 08, 2013, 04:44:35 PM
JasonPratt: Bandar-Log; pretender no; email not applicable ;)

It looks like somebody already thinks they're above the rules  8)

Crap, well I guess I had better send in my miserable monkey manager... done. SEE I AM NOT ABOVE THE RULES, I HAVE TO USE A PRETENDER TO WIN JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE!!

(The fact that I named my pretender "Gamin" does not mean I am "gaming" the system, btw, and should not be construed as suspicious in any way.)

(Actually, the name is an old word for "scamp", and is the name of one of the three main villains for Cry of Justice. But hopefully no one will notice this if I put it in small font... wait, seriously what the hell why isn't small font working, the Groghead forum system is ruining my joke!)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 08, 2013, 06:29:58 PM
Hmmm...I cannot help but feel like I should join this bandwagon.  But alas I don't have the game and missed the last sale.  So it's CoE3 for me.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: KingoftheScots on April 08, 2013, 09:40:34 PM
Hello All,

I just picked up Dom3 a week ago, so this would be my first MP game. If I'm not too late to join, could I possibly get T'ien Chi? I'll PM you my email tomorrow and get started on a Pretender. Thanks very much, looking forward to a newbie slug fest :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 09, 2013, 12:04:21 AM
Welcome KotS - its looking good for your choices, glad you could make it - jason will add you to the list once he's taken his tablets
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: parone on April 09, 2013, 05:55:30 AM
Pratt, you are a good admin. and good admins are rare
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 06:42:35 AM
Pratt, you are a good admin. and good admins are rare

It helps that I have no life that I'm an administrator in real life. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 06:43:28 AM
I'll list ScotKing immediately! Welcome to the epic game of epicness!


WE MUST DO SOMETHING FOR BISON, OH MY MINIONS!! HELP HIM, HELP HIIMMMMM!!!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Lunaje on April 09, 2013, 06:57:45 AM

 Hi All,
 I've seen your post at Desura about this game. I've been playing for a while, but I'm no expert; I go by the same name in the other forums and would like to try playing in different communities. I really want to try Marignon if positions are still open.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 07:18:10 AM
Lunaje, yep positions are still open! I'll add you as Marignon to the list in a few minutes. You can follow directions for getting set up in the game, by reading the first posts; we're trying to start by-or-before Friday, so try to have the balance mod installed (do that first before designing your pretender), the map files downloaded and installed, and your pretender sent in to Llamaserver by then. (Sending me the email address you'll be playing from is important, too, but not strictly necessary.)


Incidentally, I still feel pretty comfortable about Westeros even with 15 players, which comes to an average of 14 territories each or about 1 and 1/2 steps before players will start running into the diameter of other players.

However, I do want everyone to have the freedom to play around and grow for a couple of weeks, practicing against indies, before having to start dealing with other players; so should I start looking for a larger map? Ideally we'd be using a map 285 land spaces, or larger to allow room for a few more players if they join before the criteria deadline. (Nothing will be as awesome as Westeros, admittedly, but there are some larger maps running around. I can't promise they won't be wraparounds though!)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 07:27:35 AM
This game is going to be epic!  I look forward to my elephants pooing in all of your capital cities!

Eww the poo!

(Not that I have much room to talk. Monkeys ride my elephants...)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Lunaje on April 09, 2013, 08:24:27 AM

  It would be real nice if we can still play on Westeros. That got my attention on the first place :P. Jason, I've sent you my email. I can probably upload a pretender on Thursday. And I can speak Spanish, which will make my Inquisition feel more real.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 08:34:13 AM
There are some larger maps just as nice, but they're MUCH larger (like the Forgotten Realms at almost 400 lands, or the World of Greyhawk at over 1000!)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Ubercat on April 09, 2013, 09:36:22 AM
I understand that the Westeros map is appealing, but 14 territories a player is not nearly enough. If they were evenly distributed it might be so, but that's never the case. Half the players will be squeezed into corners by the other half. I recommend a minimum of 20, and better yet 25 per player.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 09:48:34 AM
Well, Faerun would definitely give us 25 per player at the moment!


Worth noting also is that on a wraparound map (which fantasy-property maps typically aren't), any player is less likely to be cornered by others.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 09, 2013, 10:26:55 AM
A wraparound might be interesting. That eliminates the sort of unfair advantage players in corners have. I would also vote for a larger map. Just playing around with test games and 14 players, I usually ran into an AI capital within the first 5 turns.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: elitesix on April 09, 2013, 10:40:16 AM
EDIT: I'm thinking about joining if you are still open.

What's the commitment level of this game? (Sorry if it's posted somewhere and I missed it)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 11:41:51 AM
Yes, the game's still open, although we're quickly running out of nations! (If you're a new player, I recommend Ashdod out of the remaining options.)

At the moment we're thinking of a standard 2 day turnaround, which can be temporarily extended by request.

If you don't send a turn back by the end of the time limit, the system will autogenerate your turn for you, so we can continue but only things that your faction would continuously do would be done for that turn (like research).

If you miss three deadlines without explaining why, I'll have to consider that a drop.

If you auto-drop or you intentionally drop, and if you have given me the email address you'll be sending/receiving gameturns with, I'll be able to set your faction to AI, and the game will actively develop and try to win with your faction; then if you can come back later, I should be able to hand control back over to you by reversing the operation.

Otherwise, I'll have to boot your faction from the game -- not sure what happens then, if all your lands empty or the AI takes over actively or passively, but you won't be able to get back in. (The booting wouldn't be punitive, though; I'd only be doing it so that we aren't locked into necessarily waiting the full 2 days for turnaround. The system is set up so that a new turn will be generated whenever all factions have sent in their moves. We could have five turns in one day, although that isn't very likely with this many players!--but normally the maximum turnaround time is 2 days.)

Does that makes sense? Was that what you were asking about?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 11:47:54 AM
Also, this afternoon after work I'm going to take a look at a Faerun map. It's still a little big even for 16 players, but Westeros is looking increasingly cramped for a newbie game; and we may yet pick up more players before Friday!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 11:51:34 AM
Hmmm...I cannot help but feel like I should join this bandwagon.  But alas I don't have the game and missed the last sale.  So it's CoE3 for me.

Dom3 is still only US$30 at gamersgate, which is more than half off what I paid for it. ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: elitesix on April 09, 2013, 12:06:10 PM
Put me in as Ashdod :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: ScottWAR on April 09, 2013, 12:11:50 PM

Eww the poo!

(Not that I have much room to talk. Monkeys ride my elephants...)


Hey, I think I saw them at the circus!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 01:51:15 PM
In case anyone is feeling worried that all the easy factions have been taken already -- well, I'd say all of them have. ;)

Out of the remainder:

Atlantis -- an underwater nation, which while offering some early defensive protection for new players (and which experienced players can exploit later in the game) ends up being a difficult constraint later.

Bandar-Log -- wildly variable and fiddly ape faction, plenty of potential but weak out of the gate, needs lots of magical support.


(I've bolded the land-based factions.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 09, 2013, 03:22:58 PM
is the cradle still a go-er for a map

Jason, ill send pretender in tomorrow
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 09:01:38 PM
I got back late tonight, but if I recall correctly the Cradle is too small. I'll check it over tomorrow afternoon, since that map would certainly be easy and convenient.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: PsiSoldier on April 09, 2013, 09:05:18 PM
Ok.. Last I saw you said the game was still open. If so I'd like in as MA Ermor if it's available.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: PsiSoldier on April 09, 2013, 09:15:44 PM

If you auto-drop or you intentionally drop, and if you have given me the email address you'll be sending/receiving gameturns with, I'll be able to set your faction to AI, and the game will actively develop and try to win with your faction; then if you can come back later, I should be able to hand control back over to you by reversing the operation.


This is incorrect.  When a player drops out without explanation you will need to find a volunteer (who is not playing the game) to log in and set their nation to AI.  The reason it needs to be someone who is not playing is because they will be able to see everything that that nation could have seen thus giving them an edge in the game.   You will simply have to login as admin to the game on Llamaserver and change the email address for that nation to that of your volunteer.

Secondly it is not reversible.  Once changed to AI a nation can never be changed back.


Otherwise, I'll have to boot your faction from the game -- not sure what happens then, if all your lands empty or the AI takes over actively or passively, but you won't be able to get back in. (The booting wouldn't be punitive, though; I'd only be doing it so that we aren't locked into necessarily waiting the full 2 days for turnaround. The system is set up so that a new turn will be generated whenever all factions have sent in their moves. We could have five turns in one day, although that isn't very likely with this many players!--but normally the maximum turnaround time is 2 days.)


When a faction get's Booted AKA Set to AI which is the only way to "boot" someone the AI simply takes over.    From my experience 2 days is nice and I certainly prefer to have shorter turn limits but with more people in the game you inevitably end up with more people having RL issues that require extensions for the turn, storms, hurricanes, power outages, business trips etc...   Usually that tends to happen later in the game when turns require more micromanagement and someone cant simply do their turn in 5 minutes.  But in my games as a general rule I try to stick to 48 hours as a limit because people will abuse it if you give them more time unless as I said it is a special request.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 09:32:48 PM

If you auto-drop or you intentionally drop, and if you have given me the email address you'll be sending/receiving gameturns with, I'll be able to set your faction to AI, and the game will actively develop and try to win with your faction; then if you can come back later, I should be able to hand control back over to you by reversing the operation.


This is incorrect.  When a player drops out without explanation you will need to find a volunteer (who is not playing the game) to log in and set their nation to AI.  The reason it needs to be someone who is not playing is because they will be able to see everything that that nation could have seen thus giving them an edge in the game.   You will simply have to login as admin to the game on Llamaserver and change the email address for that nation to that of your volunteer.

Well, it might be incorrect procedure to do it myself directly, but it's correct as far as my capabilities go. I'm not going to look at their position if I do have to be the one to do it, and I would have looked first for someone else outside the game to volunteer to change it; but since it was likely most local possibilities would already be playing the game, I simplified the details a bit. :) I'm still the one who has to enable it even if I find a volunteer, after all.

I appreciate the correction about the change to AI being irreversible, though; I didn't know that!


When a faction get's Booted AKA Set to AI which is the only way to "boot" someone the AI simply takes over.

There are controls for booting pretenders out of the game from the admin screen at Llama, which I have presumed (perhaps wrongly) would still exist once the game starts. If doing it by that method assigned AI to take over, I wouldn't have to collect email addresses in order to get myself (or a volunteer more ideally) to set the player to AI if they drop, so I infer that booting them directly by Llama command creates some other result, whether erasing the player from the game or setting the player to a passive AI which always registers turns immediately (similar to what happens if a player misses a turn but without waiting for the full turn to expire). I included active AI as the third possibility only because, for all I know, the boot buttons are a recent addition with code for transferring the booted account over to active AI status.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 09, 2013, 09:39:12 PM
Ok.. Last I saw you said the game was still open. If so I'd like in as MA Ermor if it's available.

No, sorry, "mkivcs" already claimed them a little while back.

The final available factions can be found a few posts back up; here's the link for more convenience (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5408.msg131497#msg131497). (Pangaea was just taken by someone else tonight.)

We only have three land nations left now; but if you're experienced playing mp, you could try one of the water factions with the understanding that you'll essentially be contra mundum all hands against you. (Having a new player ally with a water player given the underwater benefits, especially for an experienced player who knows how to minimize the underwater problems, might be rather too unbalancing in a mostly-newbie game. Still, I thought it best to keep the water nations open as an option under certain circumstances. Having R'yleh in the game would be a hoot!  ;D )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Phobos on April 09, 2013, 10:13:30 PM
If new players are still welcome, I would like to express my interest in playing.

I guess I could be called experienced enough not to be a total nub.  I have only completed one game, where I was taken out before turn 30, but I am currently in some other games where I am fairly entrenched and doing OK.

I can play R'lyeh if you like.  Or Shinuyama.  I don't mind either way. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 09, 2013, 10:18:19 PM
Hmmm...I cannot help but feel like I should join this bandwagon.  But alas I don't have the game and missed the last sale.  So it's CoE3 for me.

Dom3 is still only US$30 at gamersgate, which is more than half off what I paid for it. ;)

Fine I'll be your huckleberry!  Now if I can figure out how to do all the modding stuff on a mac....hmmm....and I'll be moving into a new place in a week or two so I'll have some internet connectivity issues for a few days.  If that's all good bossman, I'm in the game.  And since I have NO idea what the hell I'm doing you can just tell me who to pick and I'll be good with it.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 09, 2013, 10:34:29 PM
Wow, we're almost out of nations at this point!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 09, 2013, 11:46:06 PM
Woooo, Bison's in!  Cool!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 10, 2013, 12:10:28 AM
Woooo, Bison's in!  Cool!

Hey let's not get too excited to kick my ass!  I still need to figure out how to mod this bad boy and then attempt to learn how to play not to mention make this pretender dude.  I give myself a lifespan of about 15 turns.  :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 10, 2013, 01:42:46 AM
Well I guess I'll need to set aside the actual book I was reading so I can peruse the rule book for this one.  Holy Hannah it's a monster book.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: PsiSoldier on April 10, 2013, 04:26:18 AM
Ok. Atlantis then. But if Phobos is cool with Shin then I would prefer R'lyeh
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: bayonetbrant on April 10, 2013, 04:41:44 AM
Glad to see there's so many folks joining us at GrogHeads for some great online gaming.

Please feel free to stick around and poke your heads into some other parts of our forums and look over some of our main page articles, too.

And stay tuned for a major overhaul of our front page, too - it's going to look a LOT better soon
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Phobos on April 10, 2013, 05:53:23 AM
Ok. Atlantis then. But if Phobos is cool with Shin then I would prefer R'lyeh

I'm happy to play Shinuyama if you want R'lyeh.

I'll take a look at them and try and figure out how to get my anime on.   
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 06:28:32 AM
The triumph theme from the Space Battleship Yamato live action movie just started playing while I was reading this.

Heh.  ;D

Let's see, what would be the simpler nation for Bison to play out of who's left over... um... Abyssia, I guess? No, blood slave magic is unlike other magic... Underwater is simple at first but then gets very wacky trying to get out of the water...

That leaves over Caelum. They're a pretty straightforward air-affinity faction with the nice strategic and tactical flight advantage. Their only real disadvantage is that they tend to be weak and expensive as troops, so they need buffing. (There's a reason newbies were avoiding them all this time. ;) )


Bison for Caelum then; Phobos for Shinuyama; PsiSoldier for freaking R'lyeh!

Heck guys, with three more players we'd have the whole faction list set up! -- and after all we might as well put the other two water factions in so we stand some kind of chance against R'lyeh has someone to play with!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 06:32:24 AM
Note: we're pretty danged cramped for Westeros right now (and could be more by the end of the week), so don't anyone load the Westeros 1.2 map unless you just want to use it for your own purposes later (because it's very nifty after all).

However, if a bunch of people pipe up about wanting to stay on the Westeros map, that would certainly simplify things as we move into the final pre-game days! Remember, you won't have much room to expand and grow before meeting other players, so at the very least be prepared to be put out of the game early and/or to do lots of diplomacy early!

(i.e., a cramped map is significantly less newbie friendly!)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 10, 2013, 06:33:34 AM
So...what's the barney steps to creating and submitting a pretender?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Philippe on April 10, 2013, 08:21:17 AM
And assuming anything is still open, where do you send an e-mail to sign up?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 10, 2013, 08:37:36 AM
So...what's the barney steps to creating and submitting a pretender?

To create the pretender go to the 'game tools' menu and there is an option to create a pretender god. Choose your age and nation, and then you can design your god. Once that's done there will be a file in the folder 'C:/wherever you installed it/dominions3/savedgames/newlords.' The file should be 'mid_caelum_0.2h' (if you make more than one for Caelum it will save all of them and you'll have to keep track of which order you made them). Then you simply mail that file to pretenders[at]llamaserver[dot]net. The name of the game, 'Groghammer' has to be the subject line of the email.

As far as how to make a good pretender, the manual has some suggestions for each nation. Also, I'm sure someone could point you to a guide online. One thing that's helpful is to hop into a single player game and just take a look at the units that you can create. Think about what magic your guys have already and you can pick magics that you can't otherwise get. Also look at your sacred units (they have a candelabra in their stats) and about which bless effects would help them.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 10, 2013, 08:40:04 AM
And assuming anything is still open, where do you send an e-mail to sign up?

Just post here with the nation you want, PM JasonPratt your email address, and then submit your pretender.

It looks like Abysia (fire and demons), and two underwater nations, Oceania and Atlantis, are all that's left.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 09:20:10 AM
Bison,

Byrd's short instructions are good; but here's more detail.

Step 0.) Install the game, make sure it's patched to version 3.28.

Step 1.) Download the balance mod from the link on the very first post. Unzip those files into your "mod" folder in your main Dom3 folder.

Step 2.) Run Dom 3.

Step 3.) From the main menu, click on "preferences" and "mod preferences" to make sure the balance mod is not only installed but enabled. If it doesn't read as "enabled" click the text, make sure that changes it over to "enabled". IF YOU HAVE TROUBLE GETTING TO THIS POINT DON'T GO FURTHER! -- ASK FOR MORE HELP!! (Creating a pretender without the balance mod enabled will probably lead your game to "fix" your pretender for you on the first turn, which probably won't be expedient for you.)

Step 4.) Go back to the main menu, click the button for game tools. Click create a new pretender. Choose "Middle Age" and then "Caelum", your assigned faction -- you'll read a bit about them, click on past the flavor text.

Step 5.) You should be on the pretender creation screen now. The game will automatically choose a random chassis for you, but you can use any other base model available to MA Caelum. (Everyone has some standard options, most factions have a unique option or two, every faction shares some special options with a few other factions.)

WARNING: DO NOT ASSIGN A PASSWORD TO YOUR PRETENDER!! No one can hack your pretender because we're using Llamaserver, so it isn't necessary; whereas if you have to drop for catastrophic reasons and can't or don't provide your password I won't be able to set your pretender to AI.


Step 6.) At this point... um... I guess go to the body menu, right click on all the various options, read about them, choose one that seems awesome? -- you should probably try to fit your strategy to a pretender rather than vice versa as a new player. (I haven't played CoE3, so I don't know how similar the process is here; someone else can help with that maybe.)

Step 7.) Decide if you want your pretender to be unavailable for one year or three years; you'll get extra buy point if you do, and his dominion effects will still work, but you won't be able to actively use him/her/it for fighting or casting or research or whatever until that time is up. (Pretenders can randomly come into play within a range plus or minus a few seasons, btw.) For a completely first time player, I recommend your pretender be available from the start.

Step 8.) Decide what's going to be more important to you, your pretender's dominion effects or your magic skilz. This will tell you where you ought to go next on the menu to spend points. The stronger the dominion effects the weaker the pretender will be at magic generally. However, you can also take crippling dominion effects to boost up your magic or to boost other dominion effects. (None of this is set in stone until you save your pretender, so feel free to tweak around.) For technical reasons I'm going to say in your case go to the dominion effects first.

Step 8.1.) The number of candles affects how people in a territory are loyal to you, and this effect spreads over time. It's the basic "dominion" mechanic, and mostly provides benefits to you and your troops (especially your holy troops) and problems for your enemies. If you left-click the scales, that increases good effects in your dominion, right clicking the scales increases bad effects (but grants you more points to spend elsewhere). The heat/cold scales are usually bad either way, but Caelum is coldish, so definitely click them over to cold first thing: you'll actually get paid extra points for avoiding problems! (This is why I said you should go to dominions first, even if you want to focus on pretender magic instead.)

Step 8.2.) Your pretender will start with a path or two (or maybe even three) already bought for you (maybe with a rare exception of none??) You cannot unbuy those paths for points, and buying new paths may be expensive to start with depending on what pretender you use. (Chassis which are designed as strong multi-class mages tend to have cheap buy-ins for magic paths. Supercombatant pretenders tend to be very expensive buying new paths.) Each step on a path costs more than the previous one, except (usually) for the very first step in a new path. So if your pretender is a rainbowmage chassis, he may only pay 10 to open up the fire magic path, and the next step costs 8 and then 12 and then 24 or whatever. (The pay is standardized and the chart is given in the instructions manual, although the balance mod may tweak this.) A Green Dragon will probably cost 80 points to open up the fire path, though!--but after that the cost for steps in the path goes back to the standard.

Note that whatever extent you start at in a path counts as zero cost in the game engine, so any further steps along such a path will be regarded by the game as cheap as if you had just opened the path! So a Red Dragon will start out with four fire steps already, and the fifth step will be dirt cheap, making it easy for this chassis to get to step 10 (or 9, I forget offhand how far you can go, but it's one of those. Few if any spells require more than six steps in a path, but your strength affects things like how exhausted you get throwing spells, or not rather.) A great sage (a rainbow chassis who doesn't start with fire) would pay quite a bit on the other hand to get to the fifth fire step if he has to buy the first step, and a Green Dragon or a Cyclops (something that costs a lot for a new path) would pay even more due to the steep new-path entrance fee.

(I may have the details slightly wrong, being at the office right now, but the principles should be right.)


Step 9.) Once you've twiddled with your dominion and magic points as far as you want, save your pretender (and give it a name). Unfortunately you can never reload this pretender again for tweaking so if you want to try a variation you'll have to start over! Also, the game doesn't save your pretender according to the name you gave, but according to the age and faction, so your first one will save (in the "newlords" folder) as {middle_caelum_0.2h}. Your next one will be 1.2h, same age and nation; and so forth. Make a note which one is which because there's no way to tell again otherwise! (In-game you can start a new game in middle Caelum and any pretenders you've generated for that age and faction will be available for you to choose by name, but for multiplayer it doesn't work that easy. Sorry.)

Step 10.) Use your email account (and send me which email account you're using, please, so I can switch you to AI if you drop) to email your chosen pretender as an attached file (out of the "newlords" folder) to pretenders@llamaserver.com, using "Groghammer" (no quotes) by itself in the title of the email. Depending on server load, you should get a email ping back soon letting you know the server received and validated it.

If you change your mind, you can send a new pretender this way any time before the game starts, as many times as you want. (The server will send a note that it looks like you've replaced your pretender, just in case that wasn't your intention.)


After that, it's just a matter of saving the .trn files sent to you in a folder you'll create in your dom3/savegames folder, specifically for this game, and sending back the new .2h files you'll generate when you play and end a turn.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 09:22:41 AM
And assuming anything is still open, where do you send an e-mail to sign up?

You can send it to my email at compuserve, or use the forum pmail. I have buttons for each under my avatar for every post. (Most people have used the pmail so far, but it doesn't matter.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 09:34:21 AM
It occurs to me that with at least one underwater nation in the game now (and the super-evil crazy one at that), I should ask if one or more of the more experienced players wants to volunteer to switch with R'yleh or another underwater nation, with the understanding that such a nation will be playing contra mundum, "against the world", with no expectation of alliances.

This may help balance the game better.


Edited to add: since PsiSoldier seems to be relatively experienced, it would make sense for him to keep R'yleh (playing with the contra mundum house rule handicap of course).

I had chosen the monkey swarm because they're a fiddly team for newbies (so I wouldn't be taking a simpler more early-solid nation), and because they would force me to exercise on some gameplay portions I tend to neglect. However, I'm willing to take Oceana (mythical Greek underwater), with the same contra mundum handicap, leaving Bandar-Log open for a new player in the final days. (On the balance Oceana would be more difficult, especially sharing the water with R'yleh! ::)--though Bandar won't be easy!) I'll go ahead and set that up in fact, and boot Bandar from the list (so someone else can claim them).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Philippe on April 10, 2013, 10:18:26 AM
Ok.  I have no idea what I'm doing, but I'll play Abysia.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 10, 2013, 10:21:26 AM
OK Thanks guys.  Jason I'll PM you a email shortly.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 10:31:21 AM
This was originally a list of submission statuses, but I've updated here (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5408.msg132260#msg132260).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 10, 2013, 11:00:43 AM
blimey - this grew - ive only been away a day!

unless theres a 'westeros or im not playing' outcry - i think id go with a bigger map

excellent to see so many players here

looking forward to getting this one under way?

deadline the 12th did you say JP?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: elitesix on April 10, 2013, 11:18:40 AM
Jason, I think there may some bug with my browser or the forum b/c I've pm'ed you three times with my email but he sent message doesnt show up in my sent box (though it says it was sent).

What's your email?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 11:19:11 AM
Re: the deadline.

What that means is that sometime Friday I'm going to close entry to new players by setting the number of slots to the current player list (for example I'll drop it from 23 to 21), and then tell the forum to auto-start once everyone has sent in their pretenders.

In practice, the last person to send a pretender is the one to blame for starting any later; this player will be punished by not having the option to revise his pretender before gamestart. (Not really a punishment, the boat just sails once he gets on. ;) )

If we pick up a final two players (Bandar Log, and either Atlantis or whichever land faction an experienced player is willing to give up for Atlantis), I'll kick the auto-start in gear.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 11:21:53 AM
Jason, I think there may some bug with my browser or the forum b/c I've pm'ed you three times with my email but he sent message doesnt show up in my sent box (though it says it was sent).

What's your email?

Hm, yes that's odd, I doubled checked my pmail messages and yours was never received.

My email can be found on the letter icon under my avatar there to the left. (The pmail icon is the one that looks like a dialogue balloon; the email icon is immediately to its left.) (I'm describing it to avoid spambot trolling. ;) )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 11:23:37 AM
Elitesix, just got your Ashdod email address in my main email!

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: PsiSoldier on April 10, 2013, 11:30:04 AM
Oh by the way FYI you as admin do not need to know everyone's email. If you need to set a dropped player to AI you simply log in as admin, select that nation, enter a new email for the person who has volunteered to set it to AI and request turn resend for that nation. The new person will get the turn and can set it to AI.. but its ways preferable to get a replacement player before doing that if possible.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 11:37:11 AM
^^ Oh, that's good! Thanks!

It may still be a good idea for me to have an email list so I have a last-resort contact trail to see if someone intentionally means to drop. But I wasn't waiting on a full email list anyway.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: PsiSoldier on April 10, 2013, 11:52:41 AM
Yeah can't hurt to have an email list. For an additional means to contact people. By the way what is this Contra mundum handicap?  From my experience most land nations could care less about the water nations due to the difficulty in invading each others territory save for LA R'lyeh who makes people crazy and everyone hates.  Although nations like agartha and perhaps Ermor have strong possibilities to covet some water provinces ..
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 12:23:59 PM
Contra mundum means a newbie player cannot ally with you or me in order to get a well-protected experienced ally who can help nuke the newbie's enemies long-distance.

It also means you and I cannot increase our already substantial advantages by setting up alliances with land-based factions.


On the other hand, anyone who ends up parked next to you is going to be screwed whether they're allied with you or not, so maybe in your case immediate neighbors should be allowed to ally with you to offset your creeping horror dominion a little?

I'm just trying to think of ways to balance things a bit better, at the beginning at least. Late-game, maybe diplomacy could be opened up for us.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: ScottWAR on April 10, 2013, 12:29:11 PM
Weird,...couldnt post for about an hour,...kept saying page couldn't be displayed or something similar.

I would say we need a bigger boat.....uh....map.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 10, 2013, 01:01:56 PM
OK.  Jason I hope to do a pretender late tonight after I finish the tutorial and read the manual a little more.  I suspect it really won't matter in my first go since I'm sure I'll just pick something that sounds cool rather than a knowledgable useful sort of build.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 10, 2013, 01:26:59 PM
OK.  Jason I hope to do a pretender late tonight after I finish the tutorial and read the manual a little more.  I suspect it really won't matter in my first go since I'm sure I'll just pick something that sounds cool rather than a knowledgable useful sort of build.

at least try and decide on your magic paths that fit in with the strengths/design of your nation - nothing worse than getting to the big spells and realising your big pretender cant cast them!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: elitesix on April 10, 2013, 01:33:23 PM
Are the victory conditions set in stone? With this many nations, unless we do a small map, late game turns will be super slow.

Perhaps a victory condition like holding 1/3 or 1/2 of the capitals for 2 turns would help ease the grind of late game?

Edit: What map are we using at this point?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: PsiSoldier on April 10, 2013, 01:56:08 PM

On the other hand, anyone who ends up parked next to you is going to be screwed whether they're allied with you or not, so maybe in your case immediate neighbors should be allowed to ally with you to offset your creeping horror dominion a little?


Hmmmm  I'm no CBM expert And the vast majority of my playing experience was from a few years ago Pre CBM but last I knew MA R'lyeh did not have the crazy pop killing dominion that LA R'lyeh has and in fact their dominion causes no ill effects at all aside from any negative scales they may have.

Or am I wrong on this???   Actually I have never played MA R'lyeh only EA in multi and LA in single.    I'm about to run a test game to design my pretender though so I suppose I'll know better soon anyways.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: PsiSoldier on April 10, 2013, 01:58:26 PM
Are the victory conditions set in stone? With this many nations, unless we do a small map, late game turns will be super slow.

Perhaps a victory condition like holding 1/3 or 1/2 of the capitals for 2 turns would help ease the grind of late game?

Edit: What map are we using at this point?

I would go with at least 3/4 if we do that.  I usually do 90% in my single player games   But 1/3 is ridiculus as you could easily have two or 3 powers at about that same level even at 1/2 you could still have multiple contenders for the title.  Thus it's not a good victory condition IMO
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 02:10:10 PM
Map is still Westeros but will most likely change -- I haven't been able to do anything at the house since Monday, and I want to look over Faerun. Or maybe something even larger. With sufficient room to swim. :)


I have just set an instant win if a faction holds 14 victory points, with a vp in each capitol province and no vps added to the map. That's a 2/3 superiority, and the faction has to be holding the vps simultaneously, not cumulatively, so any faction that much larger than any other opponent by late game is probably going to win anyway.

However, if the other final nations decide to ally together against the dominant power, I can remove or bump up the VP requirements (so long as this happens before the 14th vp.)


I'm far from married to the idea of contra mundum, btw, so if enough players are willing to forego that and allow us underwaters to ally with other nations, that's fine with me. :)  (After looking around, Ry doesn't seem to have the mindtaint dominion in Middle Age CBM either.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 10, 2013, 02:21:01 PM
if enough players are willing to forego that and allow us underwaters to ally with other nations, that's fine with me. :)  (After looking around, Ry doesn't seem to have the mindtaint dominion in Middle Age CBM either.)

id say im fine - its a newbie-ish game - a) i dont understand the consequences b) can a bunch of newbies make that good an exploit?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: elitesix on April 10, 2013, 02:37:01 PM
I think 2/3s is good.

Can we try a map that is about 12-15 provinces per player? (Per in-game definition, 10 province per player is small, 15 is medium). I figure with increased independent strength, the game is going to already be slower than the map size would indicate.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 04:01:55 PM
15 per player is about one and a half steps from home in any direction on average before running into someone else's diameter.

On a newbie game I wouldn't recommend anything less; I'm inclined to recommend 19 (a full two steps) instead. Indies give time to work on learning the game system, time to recover from early failures, time to readjust a little, and time to grow.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 10, 2013, 04:16:22 PM
15 per player is about one and a half steps from home in any direction on average before running into someone else's diameter.

On a newbie game I wouldn't recommend anything less; I'm inclined to recommend 19 (a full two steps) instead. Indies give time to work on learning the game system, time to recover from early failures, time to readjust a little, and time to grow.

+1
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: mkivcs on April 10, 2013, 04:33:12 PM
OK my brain hurts - Pretender submitted.
I did a test game this afternoon with my intended setup and lost to the the independent troops in the next province several times without capturing a thing. I guess my troops don't like fighting midweek, hopefully by the weekend they will have worked out which end of the spear is the sharp one.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Ogaburan on April 10, 2013, 04:39:30 PM
Erm... Greetings!

Im new around these parts, been a Groghead for less then a minute now, so 'ello again.
I haven't read the whole 11 pages, because im not insane. Only read the first few posts, so if i missed anything please inform me.

Form what i gather this game is still recruiting? And there are only 2 option available, a banned-from-diplo Atlantis and Bandar-Log.
If this is correct, i would like to join the game with Bandar-Log.

I own domi for less then a week, so i am the definition of "noob" lol.
Played a few SP games on normal, and found the AI lacking, then i read some MP ARR and started drooling... it seems domi is even a better game then i thought it is.
(im into TB, strategy & 4x and quite a shame that im tickling my 30's and haven't heard of this game till now!)

If i am accepted... can someone also point me to some Bandar-Log guides/tips?
As i have never played nor faced them in my SP's lol.

Also, i have a bad case of new-game-fever, so if anyone knows of another noob-friendly game opening up anywhere else, please do share!

Cheers,
Oga
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: PsiSoldier on April 10, 2013, 05:04:52 PM
I think 19 per player sounds pretty good too.  This game looks like it is going to have every nation or damn near every one and should be pretty epic thus would suck to be tossed out of the mix too early because you get rushed by someone.   

On a side note, do we still need to submit our pretenders to lammaserver or wait until there is a new map chosen.  I'm not sure if you can change the map without remaking the game (Ive never started a game as admin only finished a few as admin so I don't know how that works)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: elitesix on April 10, 2013, 05:11:27 PM
Is this a newbie MP game or a complete MP/SP newbie game where players don't know the game system?

If it's the latter, I don't know if I should be here. I know the game system quite well, in and out, having won multiple singleplayer games (after much trial and error) quite easily.

15 per player is about one and a half steps from home in any direction on average before running into someone else's diameter.

On a newbie game I wouldn't recommend anything less; I'm inclined to recommend 19 (a full two steps) instead. Indies give time to work on learning the game system, time to recover from early failures, time to readjust a little, and time to grow.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 10, 2013, 05:19:32 PM
I think 19 per player sounds pretty good too.  This game looks like it is going to have every nation or damn near every one and should be pretty epic thus would suck to be tossed out of the mix too early because you get rushed by someone.   

On a side note, do we still need to submit our pretenders to lammaserver or wait until there is a new map chosen.  I'm not sure if you can change the map without remaking the game (Ive never started a game as admin only finished a few as admin so I don't know how that works)

map wont affect pretender set up - go ahead with pretender if youre ready

Is this a newbie MP game or a complete MP/SP newbie game where players don't know the game system?

If it's the latter, I don't know if I should be here. I know the game system quite well, in and out, having won multiple singleplayer games (after much trial and error) quite easily.

15 per player is about one and a half steps from home in any direction on average before running into someone else's diameter.

On a newbie game I wouldn't recommend anything less; I'm inclined to recommend 19 (a full two steps) instead. Indies give time to work on learning the game system, time to recover from early failures, time to readjust a little, and time to grow.

i think its probably somewhere in the middle, there is no other way for 'i just bought the game' guys to learn without playing with 'i know my way round the interface but am quite new' guys plus i would imagine we can open up a help thread for 'i just got attacked by XXXX, any advice' - IMHO you should be fine

Dear lord do we need to set up another?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: elitesix on April 10, 2013, 05:25:52 PM
Just a suggestion - we have enough players that it may be worthwhile to see if we can split this into two smaller games, simply because those with extensive SP experience have a significant advantage to those who are completely new - there are so many nuances to the game!

I'm all for epicness, but it'd probably more be fun for totally new players to be in a game where others are the same place - diplomacy and race restrictions aside, an SP veteran can easily beeline for conjuration 9 with a death pretender and start summoning tartarians with SC equipment - this is probably not something a total newbie is prepared to handle.

On the other hand, for those total newbies who join this MP game, I suppose they could make an endeavor to play a good amount of SP game in next few weeks, before action gets heated up in the MP game.

Edit: That being said, the Faerun map is f'ing cool. haha. it's awesome looking!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 05:28:44 PM
Is this a newbie MP game or a complete MP/SP newbie game where players don't know the game system?

No, some of us are not entirely newbs -- I know at least one other person than myself has been playing since Dom2, although sporadically. None of us are particularly experts, though.

Total newbies may of course band together for protection in alliance. :)


This does bring up the question of more-experienced protocol. Personally I don't usually invade someone else's territory unless (1) I think they're strong enough to handle it; and (2) my dominion has spread there already. If my invasion works really well, I'll most likely hold up prosecuting further until when-if-ever my dominion spreads further, thus giving the other player time to adjust. If my invasion was a hard-fought fight, I may continue another province further in at my own recognizance. If my invasion completely failed, I may pretend that was my plan all along and try to bluff the other person into worrying about counter-invading me. Unless I'm bluffing now by saying so of course. Ahem. :)

I say "usually" because playing an underwater nation puts me at some handicaps as well as advantages, so I may alter my protocols a bit to adjust.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 05:30:58 PM
Just a suggestion - we have enough players that it may be worthwhile to see if we can split this into two smaller games, simply because those with extensive SP experience have a significant advantage to those who are completely new - there are so many nuances to the game!

Let's not start over; totally new players can learn from more experienced ones through alliance, example, thread questions, etc.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 05:34:32 PM
Form what i gather this game is still recruiting? And there are only 2 option available, a banned-from-diplo Atlantis and Bandar-Log.
If this is correct, i would like to join the game with Bandar-Log.

I'm not entirely sure we'll go with underwater contra mundum house rules now, but completely new players should avoid playing underwater factions anyway. Not that Bandar-log is easy.

IF ANY OTHER EXPERIENCE PLAYER WOULD RATHER TRADE THEIR FACTION FOR ATLANTIS, FREEING UP ONE MORE LAND NATION, NOW'S THE TIME!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 10, 2013, 05:38:58 PM
Personally I don't usually invade someone else's territory unless (1) I think they're strong enough to handle it; and (2) my dominion has spread there already. If my invasion works really well, I'll most likely hold up prosecuting further until when-if-ever my dominion spreads further, thus giving the other player time to adjust. If my invasion was a hard-fought fight, I may continue another province further in at my own recognizance. If my invasion completely failed, I may pretend that was my plan all along and try to bluff the other person into worrying about counter-invading me. Unless I'm bluffing now by saying so of course. Ahem. :)

(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/5126/indexjct.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/820/indexjct.jpg/)

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 05:41:41 PM
Well, I tried uploading the new Faerun map directly to this thread, but currently Grogheads doesn't accept tga files (and/or maybe the map file was too large), so just go to this dropbox:

http://koti.welho.com/ehalttun/dom3/

Download the two zip archives at the bottom, straight into your dom3/maps folder. Unzip the April one first, extracting directly into your maps folder; then unzip the May one and allow the two files to overwrite (since they contain some corrections to the data. If accidentally unzip the May one first, that's okay, just so long as you DON'T let April overwrite!)

When you're done, you should now have a .tga file for Faerun, and two new .map files for Faerun (both of which use the same tga), the adventure version with special scripts and victory points, and the nospecials version. We're going to use the nospecials version, but both are now yours and you can start your own new games with them whenever you want.

When Llama sends out the turns, it will know to call for the nospecials version, so once you've extracted those zips to the "maps" folder, you're done.

Don't worry about resending your pretender, that won't be necessary.


Also, I've modified the official victory requirements to 14 victory points, or about 2/3 of the capitols. I'll bump that up to 15 if we pick up a final player.

Note that the "adventure" version of the map probably has more "Forgotten Realms" fluff built in, but it also has 100 victory points (plus any I assign to capitols), and Llama only allows a max of 60 for victory: we'd need 82 for a 2/3 victory of 123 VPs.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 10, 2013, 05:52:21 PM
Erm... Greetings!

Cheers,
Oga

Welcome Dude!  Well you might have been smart to not read the entire thread to preserve your sanity for another day or so, but stick around and sooner or later you will be assimilated.  MAHAHAHAHAHA! 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 10, 2013, 05:53:37 PM
Honestly I don't really care if I get whooped on in this game.  I just here to learn.  Well unless I get beat by a Brit, then my worldview will have been shattered.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 10, 2013, 06:34:08 PM
Honestly I don't really care if I get whooped on in this game.  I just here to learn.  Well unless I get beat by a Brit, then my worldview will have been shattered.

pretender sent Jason

Dunno how many brits we have in game Bison
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: elitesix on April 10, 2013, 06:35:24 PM
I can go Atlantis. In fact I'd be happy to - never did the whole underwater thing yet :):)

Form what i gather this game is still recruiting? And there are only 2 option available, a banned-from-diplo Atlantis and Bandar-Log.
If this is correct, i would like to join the game with Bandar-Log.

I'm not entirely sure we'll go with underwater contra mundum house rules now, but completely new players should avoid playing underwater factions anyway. Not that Bandar-log is easy.

IF ANY OTHER EXPERIENCE PLAYER WOULD RATHER TRADE THEIR FACTION FOR ATLANTIS, FREEING UP ONE MORE LAND NATION, NOW'S THE TIME!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Lunaje on April 10, 2013, 07:01:01 PM

 Ok, pretender sent.

 As it reads in first page, the game is graphs off? Players will need to communicate a lot (at least in the thread) and do good scouting in order to avoid someone secretly getting huge and running away with the game.
 Not a bad thing per se,  but be aware of it.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: elitesix on April 10, 2013, 07:13:53 PM
My vote is for graphs to be on. They're the equivalent of the word of the mouth in the ancient world, and they can be terribly misleading (ie, army size). They in no way replace real scouting, but they allow for someone to notice when when someone's pulling away (ie, 2x in every statistic over the next closest nation).

btw, I'll do Atlantis but I already submitted a pretender for Ashdod. I'll try to submit one for Atlantis under the same email and see what happens.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 10, 2013, 07:17:19 PM
That's why graphs are off. ;) Forces more creative intelligence gathering.

(Although there's still a bit that can be picked up from the Hall of Fame.)


Oga, do you still want the Bandar Log, or would you rather have Elitesix's Ashdod? I recommend you go with Ash for an easier faction, personally.


Thanks for donating Ashdod to take Atlantis, btw, E6. :) I've cleared Ashdod from the game, so Oga or a final player can have it; but if Oga keeps the apes and no one else joins up, you can just resubmit your Ashdod pretender again if you like, and I'll boot off Atlantis.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: CptHowdy on April 10, 2013, 08:04:27 PM
Sorry guys I have to pull out. My computer has crashed. Thanks.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Philippe on April 10, 2013, 09:00:14 PM
Took a look at the Faerun map.  Though it's nice and big, I'm not thrilled with the way the landmasses are set up: way too many islands.  I also don't like the idea of playing on a map that is referential to another game.

I don't know enough about this to have a really strong opinion one way or the other, but the little I saw of the Westeros map seemed nice.  Are we sure we need Faerun now that we're down to 22 players (if I'm counting that correctly)?

Alternatively, is there another map that can accomodate a large number of players without being grounded in another game system?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 10, 2013, 10:58:13 PM
The islands really shouldn't be a problem; they all have connections to nearby land provinces. The Westeros map is definitely too small for 22 players (21?).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Phobos on April 11, 2013, 12:03:51 AM
I had a quick look, but most of the maps I can see are in the 100-200 province range.

You can always randomly generate a map and submit that for the game, but there is no guarantee that it will have the range of terrain and chokepoints that the Faerun map has in small doses.  There is also the work that would need to be done on a random map to ensure people have decent start sites (not too close to each other) and all of the province connections are correct.

The only map that comes close to the requirements for this game is the Glory of the Gods map that comes with the game.  That map is around 40% larger than Faerun, weighing in at just over 600 provinces.

There may be maps that I have missed though, so don't let me deter you from looking for other options. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: claes on April 11, 2013, 12:51:55 AM
Pretender sent; I believe I am ready for my first mp game.  Please let me know if there is anything else I need to do.

Also, I am in the class of 'new players' and will gladly receive offers for strategic alliance.  I am here to learn and if you need a sword arm (or rather its Dom 3 equivalent), let me know.  Thank you ;)

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Ogaburan on April 11, 2013, 03:40:50 AM

Oga, do you still want the Bandar Log, or would you rather have Elitesix's Ashdod? I recommend you go with Ash for an easier faction, personally.


Yeah, i'll take Ashdod!
Even been to the real city of Ashdod a couple of times... lol.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 11, 2013, 07:48:20 AM
Took a look at the Faerun map.  Though it's nice and big, I'm not thrilled with the way the landmasses are set up: way too many islands.  I also don't like the idea of playing on a map that is referential to another game.

As noted, the islands have plenty of neighbors via ports; this was intentionally designed into the map. In fact, some of the major coastal cities have "trade routes" to areas far from their actual location! Players should definitely turn on the "neighbors" map filter when playing this game.

Also, Westeros itself is totally grounded in "another game", namely GRRMartin's A Song Of Fire And Ice (aka "Game of Thrones" on television); which incidentally was converted recently into no less than two computer games, plus several board games, RPGs, card games, etc.

Are you sure you still want to play it?! ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 11, 2013, 07:52:14 AM
If my test game is any indication of my abilities, well, the ice angel kingdom dudes are F#$%#@!  :D   OK.  I feel reasonably content that my limited knowledge is ready to produced a limitedly talented pretender to be cannon fodder for some expanding nation.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 11, 2013, 07:56:10 AM
Caelum isn't an easy faction, unfortunately -- they're rather fragile in any age.

The swampy lizardmen of C'tis are free again, though! They're a bit more punchy in the early game.

Bandar-Log is still free, too, but while they're conceptually awesome (Illwinter uses their army in marketing screenshots! ;D) and have a lot of potential, they're a very fiddly micromanage faction.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 11, 2013, 08:07:49 AM
Here is the current list of players and submission statuses.

Note that I don't really need email addresses, since I've learned I can reassign players to AI without them. Just be aware that if you lag the game by three cycles and I can't contact you by forum pmail or here in the main gamethread, I'll have to boot you to AI (which I'm told cannot be undone) so that we aren't locked into the full two days of turnaround.

Consequently, if someone contributes a pretender, that's all we need to start the game, and I'll list as prepared.


PREPARED: Byrdman57: Eriu (human elf-heirs but non-shooty)

PREPARED: Vlam: Agartha (underground golem makers with some cave giants)

PREPARED: Huw the Poo: Arcoscephale (not-especially-mythological ancient Greece)

PREPARED: ScottWAR: Man's Tower of Avalon (shooty English heirs to the elves)

PREPARED: Ubercat: Jotenheim (frost giants and witches)

PREPARED: Myrmidon: Ulm (Germanic humans dressed like Panzers)

PREPARED: Beezelboss: Pythium (snakey angelic Romans)

PREPARED: King of the Scots: T'ien Chi (ancient Chinese secret humans)

PREPARED: Phobos: Shinuyama (pre-samurai Japanese goblins)

PREPARED: Philippe: Abyssia (squishy fire and blood humans + lizards)

PREPARED: mkivcs: Ermor (Roman Empire becoming undead)

PREPARED: Undercovergeek: Machaka (zulu spider witches)(damn if that doesn't sound awesome!)

PREPARED: Lunaje: Marignon (holy flaming Spanish Inquisition)

PREPARED: PsiSoldier: R'yleh (crazy evil underwater psi soldiers)(no relation)(hopefully)

PREPARED: tkati: Pangaea (mythic Grecian troops)

PREPARED: Elitesix: Atlantis (like Davy Jones' crew from the movies)

PREPARED: Claes: Mictlan (bloody Aztecs)

PREPARED: Bison: Caelum (icy winged humans)

PREPARED: Ogaburan: Ashdod (Middle Eastern heirs to giants)

PREPARED: JasonPratt: Oceana (mythy Greek underwater)

W8aminute: Vanheim (vikings, dwarves, Norse elven giants)


So at the moment, W8 is the only one who isn't ready to go yet.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Philippe on April 11, 2013, 08:08:48 AM
Took a look at the Faerun map.  Though it's nice and big, I'm not thrilled with the way the landmasses are set up: way too many islands.  I also don't like the idea of playing on a map that is referential to another game.

As noted, the islands have plenty of neighbors via ports; this was intentionally designed into the map. In fact, some of the major coastal cities have "trade routes" to areas far from their actual location! Players should definitely turn on the "neighbors" map filter when playing this game.

Also, Westeros itself is totally grounded in "another game", namely GRRMartin's A Song Of Fire And Ice (aka "Game of Thrones" on television); which incidentally was converted recently into no less than two computer games, plus several board games, RPGs, card games, etc.

Are you sure you still want to play it?! ;)


Got me on that one.   It just shows what can happen when you spend your life trying to ignore popular culture. 

So no, I don't want to play Westeros.

Just took a look at Glory of the Gods. What's wrong (or what wouldn't I like) about that map?

I don't dispute that the chokepoints in Faerun are endearing, but I just don't like the way the map looks for a game like this.  Though the general aesthetics are nice, the spaces that you put your units in seem about 15% too small, giving the thing a cramped feel.

Having said that, my impression was based on two viewings and I'll be happy to play whatever you pick (as long as my volcano doesn't appear in the middle of a picture of glacier).

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 11, 2013, 08:19:34 AM
^^ That "physically small territory" was going to be true about Westeros, too.

I like Glory of the Gods, but I had trouble finding a version that (1) had a download link; (2) wasn't bugfixed in a later version and (3) wasn't going to require me to mod it some more to work around mods for other people's games.

Note that the 480 land version apparently had territories too small for someone in multiplayer, too, because someone modded it back down to 227 on the same map! -- which is far too small for our game.


I can fiddle around with a more sophisticated Dom3 random map generator like Ballbarian (or whatever it's called), which will probably allow me to auto-set start locations in decent areas so people aren't crippled out of the gate; but the Faerun designer already did that, and most people here like the map, and it's Friday tomorrow, and my head hurts, so at this late date I'm going to make an executive decision and go with this map for this game, unless an objective problem crops up. I certainly encourage players to pretest the map looking for objective problems, though!--better to find them now than later! :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 11, 2013, 08:40:41 AM
OK.  I've created my fragile lord of the realm and sent him into the server.  I await my opportunity to crush my enemies or plead for my meager existence with my undoubtably more powerful neighbors.  :D  LONG LIVE THE LORD OF ICE!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 11, 2013, 09:01:02 AM
So what map should I download.  I have the Westros one downloaded, but I'd like to do a trial run on the actual map and test out my strategy.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 11, 2013, 09:04:29 AM
Most recent map instruction thread is back here a ways. (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5408.msg132065#msg132065)

Great blue-angel avatar now, though, Bison!  :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 11, 2013, 09:07:54 AM
She's an winged magical ice lady of war. 

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Philippe on April 11, 2013, 09:08:25 AM
I most certainly don't want to do anything that will contribute to your headache.

So anything you want to go with will be fine by me.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Ubercat on April 11, 2013, 09:10:11 AM
Even been to the real city of Ashdod a couple of times... lol.

Queue patronizing Homer Simpson voice: "Of course you have, Lisa. It's right next to the lollypop forest with all the other make pretend places."
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 11, 2013, 09:11:23 AM
Well Ashdod is a real city in Israel. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 11, 2013, 09:20:03 AM
^^ The joke is that Homer doesn't realize such places are real. ^^

Quote from: Bison
She's an winged magical ice lady of war. 

And cute, too! :)

Plus she comes with Absolute Territory (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ZettaiRyouiki).  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 11, 2013, 09:43:44 AM
And cute, too! :)

Prepare for war!  Your eyes have soiled the lady and for that you must pay.











Just testing out my diplomacy skillz.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 11, 2013, 09:57:23 AM
Well, "absolute territory" is a pun (in Japanese) on "absolute terror"... ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 11, 2013, 10:00:42 AM
And now you continue to insult me with word play!  And foreign word play at that.  This means WAR!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 11, 2013, 10:09:25 AM
Plus she comes with Absolute Territory (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ZettaiRyouiki).  ;D

Please warn me the next time one of your links turns out to be a fricking rabbit hole!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 11, 2013, 10:39:01 AM
Plus she comes with Absolute Territory (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ZettaiRyouiki).  ;D

Please warn me the next time one of your links turns out to be a fricking rabbit hole!

(Note: not a euphamism.) (Probably.)

Quote from: Bison
And now you continue to insult me with word play!  And foreign word play at that.  This means WAR!

Hopefully she'll turn out to be tsundere (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Ogaburan on April 11, 2013, 10:48:54 AM
Was wondering guys, how close is this game to actually starting?

It seems you guys are not set up on a map yet... im asking because i want to know how much time i have to submit my Ashdod Pretender... it seems its just me and another dude who haven't yet.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 11, 2013, 11:38:44 AM
think the maps agreed at the one on the front page

i think the only hold up then is the last 2 pretenders
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Ogaburan on April 11, 2013, 12:39:42 PM
Well, ive just sent mine... and thanks to the donator again, hope to have a longer game with Ashdod then with the apes...

Cheers.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 11, 2013, 02:48:19 PM
"Gameleaper", playing LA Arco, had to drop out of the Late Age game; would someone like to take his position there?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 11, 2013, 02:50:41 PM
"Gameleaper", playing LA Arco, had to drop out of the Late Age game; would someone like to take his position there?

on a side note - whats left to do here?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Ogaburan on April 11, 2013, 03:56:15 PM
"Gameleaper", playing LA Arco, had to drop out of the Late Age game; would someone like to take his position there?

Im willing to give ti a try... I dont really know what im doing in LG, so it will be a hilarious catastrophe!
Not sure its what you guys are looking for tho...

I can only guarantee i wont suicide hordes of basic troops like the AI... which docent say much...  :-\

Also, to the matter at hand...
If my vote counts (look at avatar) for something, I tried out the Faerun map... and not to hurt anyone's feeling and as much as  Faerun-fan that I am (Whats 4th edition?  >:()...
It just feels strange and wrong to me... so I'll vote against it.

I dont know how many of those "hand-drawn" maps exist, but those looks magnificent and really fit the game.
Just my 2 cents...  ::)
.
.
TAKE THEM!  >:(
.
.
Please?  :-[
 :'(
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 11, 2013, 03:57:52 PM
Well, for one thing I need to choose a pretender, tonight I hope. ;)

Also, there are still two slots open, and someone else may join by tomorrow.

Sometime tomorrow I'll set the game to autostart when all pretenders have been sent (whether I've sent mine in or not by then).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 11, 2013, 05:11:27 PM
Okay, unless someone else joins between now and tomorrow, W8aminute is the only player who hasn't sent a pretender. I'll ping him.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: claes on April 11, 2013, 05:13:10 PM
Apropos handle, eh?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 11, 2013, 10:06:28 PM
I don't want to build anyone's expectations here, but if my test runs with my winged dudes is any indication I give myself a 90% chance of not surviving past 15 turns.  Of course the percentage increases by 1.75% every turn there after.  I need a plan!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: claes on April 11, 2013, 10:13:54 PM
^^ What he said ^^
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Ogaburan on April 12, 2013, 04:52:57 AM
I don't want to build anyone's expectations here, but if my test runs with my winged dudes is any indication I give myself a 90% chance of not surviving past 15 turns.  Of course the percentage increases by 1.75% every turn there after.  I need a plan!

Test?
Plans?
Im still reading the manual...

I hope you are my neighbor tho, i could beat such odds.
Statistically speaking!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 12, 2013, 04:55:25 AM
Quick drive by whilst at work - how many indy domains do we get on this map? 15-ish or is it more
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 06:18:15 AM
Quick drive by whilst at work - how many indy domains do we get on this map? 15-ish or is it more

Currently, 22 for every land faction. No worse than 20 if the final two land nations join.

The three underwater nations average 23 ocean provinces apiece without even factoring into the land areas. Plenty of room for everyone, although no doubt we'll be going onto land if we can eventually. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 06:52:13 AM
Note: whoever may be thinking about taking over for Late Arcoscephale in the other game here's the thread (http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=4996.new;topicseen#new)), they're at war with Bogarus and just had a crushing defeat to their army invading Bogarus.

The Boga player says he's actually on good terms personally with the Arco player out-of-character, and is willing to grant peace to anyone taking over Arco, so there won't be any hard feelings, but an Arco sub needs to know the pros and cons of taking over:

CON: one of your armies was just wiped out. I don't know if you have any others yet.

PRO: you're starting with a nation that has developed over a year in-game (15 turns), enough so to create a fairly large army with elephants.

CON: you're starting with a nation that hasn't apparently developed much magically. Which is why they lost that huge invading army.

CON: you'll be playing Late Age Acroscephale, which tends to be pretty weak.

PRO: you'll be starting with automatic alliance with a fairly well-protected corner-edge opponent.

CON: it might be effectively a vassalage alliance, and since your opponent is in a corner of the map he may want some of your lands as access to the rest of the map.

PRO: your ally is one of the few nations in the game who has an inherent chance to win against Late Age Ermor.

CON: Late Age Ermor is in this game. ;)

CON: Odds are good you'll share a border with LAErmor. (I know where Ermor isn't, which by the power of deduction means they must be somewhere near Arco.)

PRO: LAErmor is played by a newbie who says he inadvertently crippled Ermor out of the gate by pretender design.

CON: LAErmor just about defines "being able to recover" and "easily getting stronger over time".

PRO: Bogarus has an alliance with the only other team on the map with some chance of defeating LAErmor.


In conclusion: whoever takes over for LAArco should be prepared to become the servant of Bogarus. And by "servant" I mean the kind of servant you might find in a Russian prison.  ::)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: elitesix on April 12, 2013, 08:53:10 AM
What time is the game starting?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 12, 2013, 08:54:32 AM
Jason, you're really overestimating LA Ermor in the current game, I assure you!  I'm very green and I've gimped the nation; I will not be much of a fight for anyone!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 12, 2013, 09:20:34 AM
What time is the game starting?

as i said in the other thread im surprised to find Jason actually sleeps - i thought somebody just switched him off for an hour or two and rebooted himself when a new turn was due

i envisage tonight or tomorrow - i think were all out of waifs and strays
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 12, 2013, 09:25:06 AM
this from W8

I'm continuing to practice my skills with Dominion 3 in preparation for our Groghammer MP.  Jason I'll submit my pretender tonight sometime.  Other than the CBM mod is there anything else I need to install?

its in the friday gaming/yuri gegarin thread - ill reply there
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 10:34:51 AM
I'm allowing some leeway for anyone to sign up for the last two nations.

Probably four hours from now, though, I'll close submissions and flip the system to auto-start. If W8 has sent in by then, the game will start a few minutes later; if not, a few minutes after whenever he submits. (Or any new players by then.)

U'geek, thanks, let him know he only needs the map files now that he's installed CBM.


LET EVERYONE BE SURE THEY ENABLED (not just installed) CBM BEFORE YOU SUBMITTED YOUR PRETENDER!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 12, 2013, 10:35:59 AM
So we are using the Forgotten Realms map?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 12, 2013, 10:56:46 AM
faerun - on post 1
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 12, 2013, 10:58:08 AM
Will the turn sent to me auto load the map as long as it's in my map folder?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: byrdman57 on April 12, 2013, 11:07:21 AM
Yep. Has everyone read the FAQ on how to use the llamaserver?

Nevermind I see that Jason put all that stuff up in this thread.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 12, 2013, 11:13:32 AM
Will the turn sent to me auto load the map as long as it's in my map folder?

yep - make sure you have a saved game folder called groghammer, .trn file into this folder, go to the play existing game option and it should bring up the groghammer game turn 1 option - youre off
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 12, 2013, 12:12:27 PM
OK I made a folder called Groghammer inside of my save folder.  I am so ready to conquer the world!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 12, 2013, 12:20:57 PM
Everyone target Bison!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 12, 2013, 12:21:57 PM
Everyone target Bison!

This means WAR!!!!

Wait you're not even in this game!  You insult me even further.  WAR!!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 12, 2013, 12:25:56 PM
Everyone target Bison!

This means WAR!!!!

Wait you're not even in this game!  You insult me even further.  WAR!!!

hes in - comedy god creations ensue
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 12, 2013, 12:35:59 PM
This means WAR!!!!

You are going to be on the unfortunate end of an arse/boot interface, I'm afraid!  I'd maintain a low profile in-game if I were you! :D

hes in - comedy god creations ensue

Hey!  I understand perfectly well how to create a LA Ermor pretender now!

...shame I'm playing MA Arcoscephale in this one, eh?  :-[
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Bison on April 12, 2013, 01:03:18 PM
I have powers.   Super powers.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 12, 2013, 01:14:00 PM
I love your new avatar by the way, Bison.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: undercovergeek on April 12, 2013, 01:16:30 PM
Funniest thing I read today was a guy who researched for ever for a great doom bringing sword - his pretender had no arms!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: LongBlade on April 12, 2013, 02:48:48 PM
By popular demand I'm going to make this thread a sticky.

Anyone looking for a game is welcome to post here and it looks like you guys are doing a great job of shepherding folks to games that are getting underway.

Keep up the good work!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 02:57:03 PM
IT

BEGINS

NOW



(or whenever W8 gets around to submitting his pretender, whichever comes first)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 12, 2013, 03:13:39 PM
It's on!  OK people, form an orderly queue and wait your turn to be squished.  Thanks.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 12, 2013, 03:19:52 PM
It's on!  OK people, form an orderly queue and wait your turn to be squished.  Thanks.

im f****** giant spiders man!!!! you dont stand a chance!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 12, 2013, 03:21:58 PM
We have lots of shoes...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 03:24:15 PM
Okay, having released the Llamaserver to autostart (after reducing the expected players to 21 -- meaning anyone could slip in and snipe the final slot out from under W8, by the way, at the risk of being booted out of the game ;) ) -- what can players expect now?

EXPECT 0.) Nothing at all to happen until W8 submits his pretender. If that doesn't happen by Monday night, without further word from W8, I'll probably reduce the game to 20 players and kick the autostart in gear that way.

EXPECT 1.) An email will arrive from the server to the account you emailed your pretender to the server. This email will have an attachment with a .trn extension.

Download that attachment to the folder you made in the "savegame" Dom3 folder, which you named "Groghammer" or something like that. (e.g. in your "savegame" folder you should create another folder named "Groghammer" or anything without spaces you'll know refers to this game. THERE MUST BE NO SPACES IN THAT FOLDER'S NAME, or Dom3 won't recognize it.)

Load up Dom3, click "play a game" (not "create a new game"), and you should find "Groghammer" (or whatever you named your folder) as one of the current games. Click on it to select, and then "ok". It will say Middle Age {your faction here} turn 1, or something like that. Click on that text, or "cancel" if you don't want to play yet.

Dom3 will load the Faerun map, and also enable the balance mod you installed (along with any graphics mods) if for some reason you unenabled it before game start.


EXPECT 2.) Only two "messages" off the bat, the same messages everyone gets the first turn of every game, about the Wheel of Time turning and other preplot things like that.

If you see a third message that someone tried to cheat with a pretender, that probably means the person created his pretender without enabling the balance mod first. The game will try to "fix" your pretender to comply with the balance mod rules (whoever "you" or "you all" are). You should check your pretender pronto, including your scales and dominion (since the game seems more likely to change those to make the cost fit the balance mod criteria). If you're okay with the changes, we'll continue on. If not, or if for various reasons you can't figure out what changed (your pretender's asleep and you had a weak dominion to start with so your scales aren't fully in play yet anyway), we'll have to restart the game. Drop a note here pronto and let me know.


EXPECT 3.) A decent starting position with at least four neighboring territories. (Turn on your "neighbors" filter in the map controls to be sure. On this map that's a good idea for default anyway, because gateways and ports and presumed trading routes may lead to non-obvious neighbors.) The map designer tried to turn off all the bad-start provinces, but he may have missed one, who knows. With a group this large I'm inclined to say just suck it up and deal with it, but you can try complaining here and see what happens. ;)

You probably won't be next door to another faction, but I can't promise that. If so, well, you'll have to be diplomatic or really creative out of the gate, won't you?

In other games, the questions of what the little "crowns" on the maps meant arose. Those are victory points, which for our other two Groghead games mean nothing at all; but here, you have to take and hold 14 of them to win. (Or to force a final epic allied confrontation or something like that, if the remaining players want to keep trying.)

For this game, the only victory points are at faction capitols, and you can always see victory points on the map even if you have no other knowledge of the territory details; so wherever you see a little crown, that's a captiol. Avoid it or try to conquer it as you see fit. :)


EXPECT 4.) Not a lot of diplomacy to begin with. This map was chosen to provide room for players to test and grow a bit first, it might be a whole game year before you see anyone. Don't feel bad if people don't talk to you yet. Unless of course you've already privately arranged pre-game alliances among yourselves (for thematic reasons or whatever) in which case sure feel bad if your allies are just ignoring you. And maybe also feel suspicious. :)


EXPECT 5.) A special game delay from Sunday through Monday, since I won't be in a position to play after Saturday until Monday night. We might be able to get a few turns in by Saturday night, but once I go to bed I won't be able to play a turn until Monday night.

If you need an extension, too, at any time, let me know immediately. Don't wait too long if you can help it!


EXPECT 6.) The first turn to have a 48 hour default in any case. This gives me time to set a new default time, which will be... 48 hours. :) But the first game turn is always automatically 48 hours.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 03:25:30 PM
It's on!  OK people, form an orderly queue and wait your turn to be squished.  Thanks.

im f****** giant spiders man!!!! you dont stand a chance!


Giant zulu spiders. With zulu witches. And Zulus.

I'm unsure if that's quite as unstoppable as FREAKING GIANT WEREWOLVES, but I'm going to be safe and bet "yes". :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 03:26:24 PM
It's on!  OK people, form an orderly queue and wait your turn to be squished. pelt W8 until he submits his pretender. Thanks.

Fixed that for you. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: W8taminute on April 12, 2013, 04:31:07 PM
I just sent my pretender in per Jason's instructions given in the third post of this thread. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 12, 2013, 04:31:13 PM
jason thanks for your help through all of this - have a great game everyone
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: W8taminute on April 12, 2013, 04:33:38 PM
I just received my first turn!!  That was fast.  Now please excuse me while I hungrily fire up the game and see what's what.    ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 12, 2013, 04:38:21 PM
I just received my first turn!!  That was fast.  Now please excuse me while I hungrily fire up the game and see what's what.    ;D

just confirming no 'pretender fix' message - well done all
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 04:58:12 PM
Quote
I will tell you a story, beloved;
a story of a cradle.

Once,
there was a world,
bobbing and spinning within the center of her space,
infused with life, alit by lights both great and small,
upon her and above her.
From the beginning, she had borne her children
—not to stay, but to leave.

But, the children did not always play well.
And, they did not always leave well.
Sometimes they pushed each other out.

Sometimes, they pushed each other hard.

On this cradle lay a vastness of mountains and forests, lakes and islands, rivers and valleys and plains. Half the cradle, the children called Mikon; the other half was water.
On the land, the children lived.
The children often grew into monsters.

Fires and floods, storms and quakes, blood and steel and wood and life, crackled and cracked. This happened many times in Mikon.
And monsters laughed—
while a mother cried, and a father sighed...


I didn't have Dom3 in mind (I don't think Dom1 had even been released yet) when I wrote that introduction for Cry of Justice, but it fits well enough. :)

(Aside from "Mikon" not being "Faerun" I guess... ;) )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 05:24:29 PM
Curious. I've found one of my two underwater rivals on the map, but haven't found the other one yet. Specifically, I've only found two victory points in an ocean area (one of them mine of course).

If someone got plopped in an inland sea or something like that, let me know if that's a problem!--I'll tweak the map to remove that as a starting location and we'll reload and start the game again. (Which will take a few days, probably, but better than for someone to start crippled.)

Edited to add: ah, yep, I see you there. Never mind, you're in a completely awesome location (especially if you're R'yleh)! I'd switch with you in a heartbeat if I could!

Also, a warning to my underwater brethren, if not to anyone else -- the map designer accidentally forgot to attach the far southwest water territory to its nearest underwater neighbor to the east, despite that other province being neighbored with the southwest one. Meaning you have to go ashore to reach the southern sea areas moving from west to east, but not when moving east to west. A minor problem but one I ought to fix one day.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [registration closed]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 05:47:49 PM
I have set the game delay to 80 hours to begin with (in order to give myself time to run my turn Monday night along with two other Dom3 games I'm playing), but afterward I'll set it back to 48 hours.

We can still send as many turns as possible tonight and tomorrow (Saturday), and of course anyone can send in their turn from Saturday night Central Standard US time until Monday night (just not me, because I'll be at work, out of town, and/or asleep. {g})
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: claes on April 12, 2013, 06:22:15 PM
LET EVERYONE BE SURE THEY ENABLED (not just installed) CBM BEFORE YOU SUBMITTED YOUR PRETENDER!!

I just checked my Mod Preferences and I am pretty sure that CBN was not enabled when I submitted my pretender.  Because I just enabled it now.  My apologies; in my rush to get my god submitted it seems I may have skipped a step.  Hopefully this is not too difficult to rectify.  What should I do?  My mods are now enabled...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 12, 2013, 06:31:56 PM
I can't run the game.  Console output says it's expecting a .tga map file, but I only have a .map file for Faerun...?

Edit: Never mind, I got it.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 12, 2013, 06:40:11 PM
I ran into the same problem with the map tga file.  There are two zips you need to dl to get this to work:

http://koti.welho.com/ehalttun/dom3/faerun_466_adventure_fixed.zip (http://koti.welho.com/ehalttun/dom3/faerun_466_adventure_fixed.zip)

then

http://koti.welho.com/ehalttun/dom3/faerun_466_fixedmapfiles_2009-05-01.zip (http://koti.welho.com/ehalttun/dom3/faerun_466_fixedmapfiles_2009-05-01.zip)


Just sent my turn in and got confirmation that it was received.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 12, 2013, 07:01:13 PM
Received file with no apparent issues.  Although I think my pretender was changed a little bit but I cannot figure out how to check the scale thingys, so I guess we roll with the wing warriors we have and not the winged warriors we want.  :P

P.S.  Huw I must crush you.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 12, 2013, 07:06:36 PM
P.S.  Huw I must crush you.

You have to find me first!

(Just follow the trail of massive piles of elephant poo)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 07:12:34 PM
No one received any messages about pretenders being changed though, did they?

If not, there shouldn't be any problems. I mean no problems with the mod affecting pretender design.

Scales (due to bad game design in this case) can only be checked by clicking (left-clicking I think) on any little icons appearing to the right of any candles in the province information window at the top of the main map screen. (Clicking on the candles does nothing, even though it should do the same thing.)

Sometimes scaled are altered due to local province factors, and current dominion strength may be a factor, too. Domstrength will always be 1 out of the gate, and increase during each game turn. (Or not, as the case may be, due to other factors, but this early in the game odds are good that everyone's capitol province will eventually reach maximum original dominion before the end of the first year.)

Having said that, I have heard reports from other players that the pretender creation scripts are a bit bugged. Specifically, I've heard (although until now I've forgotten) that adjusting the scales back and forth will confuse the game during pretender creation: it's better to quit without saving your pretender once you've dialed him or her in, and then start over from scratch going to just those settings without any further fiddling around and THEN saving the pretender.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 12, 2013, 07:14:39 PM
Well let's all be honest here.  I wouldn't know if I gimped my Pretender or if the game gimped my Pretender or if my Pretender gimped himself to be put out of his memory quicker.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 12, 2013, 07:15:29 PM
P.S.  Huw I must crush you.

You have to find me first!

(Just follow the trail of massive piles of elephant poo)

Is that the excuse you have for the stench that follows your army? 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 12, 2013, 07:16:39 PM
No one received any messages about pretenders being changed though, did they?

If not, there shouldn't be any problems. I mean no problems with the mod affecting pretender design.


Does this apply even if, as I mentioned above, I did not have CBM enabled during pretender creation?  Sorry Jason...  should I just load up the turn and see if everything is ok?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 12, 2013, 07:26:03 PM
Received the e-mail and everything appears fine.

Except for one minor point which is entirely my fault.

When I sent in my pretender I had installed the balance mod but not the three graphics mods.

Since then I've installed the graphics mods and I've become rather fond of them.

It's not the end of the world if I can't use them, but is there any way to activate them at this late date?  I haven't made or saved my first turn yet.

I also don't remember exactly what went into creating my pretender, so I'd probably rather stick with the current graphics if the alternative is to redo everything from scratch.

I guess I wasn't expecting the game to set a selection (or non-selection) of graphics mods in stone.  Sure was surprised when I saw the strands of toilet paper hanging from those telephone polls.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 12, 2013, 07:41:21 PM
No one received any messages about pretenders being changed though, did they?

If not, there shouldn't be any problems. I mean no problems with the mod affecting pretender design.


Does this apply even if, as I mentioned above, I did not have CBM enabled during pretender creation?  Sorry Jason...  should I just load up the turn and see if everything is ok?

After writing the above message I have loaded the turn and everything appears to be fine, or at least the game has not told me that anything is wrong, and the mods are now enabled, so I will continue to do my turn as if everything is normal and hope for the best.

I will have some questions later, but as they relate to gameplay I am sure that anyone with a better understanding then me can answer them and I will hold off for the moment.

My okkenites are thirsty...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 08:03:12 PM
The balance mod doesn't mod all pretenders, so creating a pretender before enabling the balance mod doesn't necessarily result in the game trying to "fix" your "cheating" pretender. If there's no message, the game has no problems. So don't worry, Claes.


You can turn your graphic mods on any time, Philippe, the server doesn't care about those, only about mods that change the stats of units or objective changes of that sort. At worst, the game will turn your mods off when you load a turn.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 12, 2013, 08:06:33 PM
Note: due to some weirdness in how the server calculates the time for the first turn, the official deadline for turn 1 is sometime Wednesday (after I tried to make sure it would be Monday night instead of Sunday).

Don't worry about this in the slightest. Once we all complete a turn with less than 48 hours to go, the server will advance the clock. Until then we can play as many turns as all of us manage to turn in.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 12, 2013, 08:10:00 PM
Note: due to some weirdness in how the server calculates the time for the first turn, the official deadline for turn 1 is sometime Wednesday (after I tried to make sure it would be Monday night instead of Sunday).

Don't worry about this in the slightest. Once we all complete a turn with less than 48 hours to go, the server will advance the clock. Until then we can play as many turns as all of us manage to turn in.

Thank you, Jason, for your labors on our behalf.  I haven't had this much fun in ages, and the game has barely begun...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 12, 2013, 08:12:55 PM
All is well on my end, even tested sending an updated turn.
Im starting to really like the Lamaserver!

Its one of the more polite and coherent servers i dealt with!

p.s - Am writing an AAR....
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 12, 2013, 08:48:40 PM
Make sure you post the AAR down in the AAR sub forum.  And also make sure you share ALL of your strategy especially if you end up being my neighbor. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 12, 2013, 09:09:02 PM
Interesting thing I noticed on the map: two of the water nations started REALLY close together. That should be pretty interesting for the both of you.

Looking around it seems like there are some interesting starting spots. Should make for a fun game.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 12, 2013, 09:10:16 PM
How are you seeing the other nation's starting location?  I thought there was some sort of fog of war that covered the map.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 12, 2013, 10:16:02 PM
All the provinces that have a crown on them are a capital province. I can't tell who is in each province, but I know that someone started there.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 12, 2013, 10:23:44 PM
All the provinces that have a crown on them are a capital province. I can't tell who is in each province, but I know that someone started there.

^^ Good Protip! ^^
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Phobos on April 12, 2013, 10:48:37 PM
Wow.  This thread exploded overnight.

Good luck everyone and have fun.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Beelzeboss on April 13, 2013, 01:43:18 AM
Everything looks ok. Good luck to everyone.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 13, 2013, 03:32:59 AM
just to confirm if anyones set up was wrong and they hadnt switched the mods on for pretender creation there would have been a 3rd message on the game start up as well as the 'chaos blah blah blah' stuff saying - pretender for XXXXX has been altered

ask jason - hes the expert on sending faulty gods in!!   ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 13, 2013, 06:19:50 AM
Make sure you post the AAR down in the AAR sub forum.  And also make sure you share ALL of your strategy especially if you end up being my neighbor.

I am aware of the subform, as as much that i am tempted to post it now.
As i got fairly good feedback from my wife and even a giggle, its very detailed, so i might only post it after i am defeated.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 13, 2013, 06:29:31 AM
Um...your silence is not helping me here.  I'm going to need to see some detailed maps and plans....
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 13, 2013, 07:46:41 AM
To win or find huw?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 13, 2013, 08:57:19 AM
Im starting to really like the Lamaserver!

Its one of the more polite and coherent servers i dealt with!


I have to agree with you there Oga, Llamaserver is very polite and easy to deal with.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 13, 2013, 10:19:33 AM
All the provinces that have a crown on them are a capital province. I can't tell who is in each province, but I know that someone started there.

^^ Good Protip! ^^


Strictly speaking, every province with a crown has a victory point. In some games (like the other two Groghead games) that doesn't mean anything, but I set this game up so that the only victory points on the map are in nation capitols.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 13, 2013, 10:20:24 AM
To win or find huw?

Well to defeat huw would be a victory of bragging rights.  I suspect his army cowers on the opposite side of the map.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 13, 2013, 10:23:30 AM
In regard to AARs, while those would be very helpful and interesting, anyone doing one should make it clear from the outset how much information you plan to share on the thread and whether other players (except any permanent allies of course) are allowed to read before game-end.


There are ways of doing open AARs before game's end, but they're a little tricky: like a ten turn lag delay, or heavily altering the snapshots to obscure critical information. Another clever way would be to write the AAR from the perspective of other nations in their dealing with you!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 13, 2013, 10:36:01 AM
Well to defeat huw would be a victory of bragging rights.  I suspect his army cowers on the opposite side of the map.

It doesn't matter where on the map I am, my mages can reach over and nuke your silly little armies without breaking a sweat!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 13, 2013, 11:51:05 AM
If the last two people who haven't sent their first turns in yet get around to sending them in the next few hours, does that mean there will be a second turn generated today?

I take it the generation of turns is an automated function run by the server.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 13, 2013, 12:09:32 PM
If the last two people who haven't sent their first turns in yet get around to sending them in the next few hours, does that mean there will be a second turn generated today?

I take it the generation of turns is an automated function run by the server.

Yes, and yes. The safety clock is still set for Wednesday night my time, but that is of no importance; I'll fix it when I get back Monday night (or more likely Tuesday morning at work, as I expect I'll have a number of game turns to work on Monday night. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 13, 2013, 07:32:12 PM
Since Agartha didn't complete his turn before I had to bed down tonight, you-all won't be possibly able to do two turns before I get back (the 2nd turn, and then the 3rd turn while waiting for me).

However, once Agartha plays, everyone except me will still be able to play the 2nd turn; you'll just be waiting on me to get back Monday night and play my 2nd turn.

Have a good remainder of the weekend!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 14, 2013, 01:54:16 AM
AGAAAAARTHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 14, 2013, 03:23:19 AM
AGAAAAARTHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

Lol, took the words out of my keyboard...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 14, 2013, 03:38:11 AM
AGAAAAARTHAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!

Lol, took the words out of my keyboard...

Who is it? In car at mo
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 14, 2013, 04:05:53 AM
It's Vlam - hasn't posted since the 6th but was last active on 11th.

Vlam, everything ok?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 14, 2013, 09:52:29 AM
dunno if its just me but if go to the groghammer game on llama all the players and turn notification data has disappeared

edit - nope, no worries, all fixed again

anyone know where vlam came from?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: KingoftheScots on April 14, 2013, 10:08:22 AM
I'm wondering if he signed up and then forgot about us. And Llamaserver's email probably got filtered into his spam folder. So hopefully he checks it :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 14, 2013, 10:30:10 AM
anyone know where vlam came from?

He came from Shrapnel.  He's in the LA game too.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 14, 2013, 10:46:37 AM
sent him a private message on this forum but serves no purpose if he doesnt log in - hes obviously alive if hes playing in LA - i would imagine he just doesnt realise its up

cant send him a message on Llama because Ysk has the password


(http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/5584/1297807263994.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/1297807263994.jpg/)

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 14, 2013, 10:51:26 AM
hes alive!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 14, 2013, 10:55:46 AM
I don't understand why you are attempting to quicken your untimely demise by pushing for faster turn times.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 14, 2013, 11:00:51 AM
I don't understand why you are attempting to quicken your untimely demise by pushing for faster turn times.

Cheeky bugger - the glorious spider nation of machaka is watching you bison!!

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 14, 2013, 11:02:27 AM
(http://www.nastyprisms.com/temp/cache/4.bp.blogspot.com/_D_Z-D2tzi14/S5B4pXwMdvI/AAAAAAAACBQ/N4mIJ6f-n1U/s320/spider11.png)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 14, 2013, 11:10:49 AM
Well you're just making friends all over the map, eh Bison? :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 14, 2013, 11:12:31 AM
Well I'm not here to hand out boxes of chocolates and rose bouquets! 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 14, 2013, 11:16:56 AM
P.S.  I do have some some good will toward the other 19ish nations.  Well at least until I need to destroy them!  MAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHA!  What?  It's not like the rest of you jokers aren't thinking the something!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 14, 2013, 11:19:03 AM
(http://www.nastyprisms.com/temp/cache/4.bp.blogspot.com/_D_Z-D2tzi14/S5B4pXwMdvI/AAAAAAAACBQ/N4mIJ6f-n1U/s320/spider11.png)

Construction 8 nature 5

Boots of stomping?


Pffft
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 14, 2013, 11:22:08 AM
Your right.  I also need to figure out how to research tanks with flamethrowers.

(http://s21.postimg.org/ejbeuf5t3/sherman_flamethrower.jpg)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 14, 2013, 11:26:13 AM
I think that's summon fire drakes - lot of hit points on them bad boys - enchantment 3 nature 2 I think, but then there's dragon master at enchantment 8 that summons 3 for every summons instead of 1!

I'm still going to eat you
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 14, 2013, 11:32:44 AM
I'll let you two mortals flail around at each other like old ladies for a bit, then drop some elephants on you. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on April 14, 2013, 11:46:22 AM
Sorry guys, I had a LOT of things to do yesterday :/ .

I just played two turns!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 14, 2013, 12:05:37 PM
No worries mate, hope all is well.  It's not like you stalled a turn or anything anyway. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on April 14, 2013, 12:59:21 PM
Thanks, I'm glad to see that everyone seems happy.
I'll kill you last :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 14, 2013, 01:19:59 PM
Pile on Huw!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 14, 2013, 02:13:53 PM
Pile on Huw!

Whats the story behind your seemingly blind hatred of Huw?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Myrmidon on April 14, 2013, 02:50:55 PM
Turn 2 played as well.   Got an enemy dominion next to me already.... Either I'm gonna have an ally nice and close, or fodder for the Black Steel of Ulm!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Yskonyn on April 14, 2013, 03:05:15 PM
How are you guys faring here? ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 14, 2013, 04:02:46 PM
Whats the story behind your seemingly blind hatred of Huw?

Good question!  Well, Bison?  What do you have to say for yourself?!

How are you guys faring here? ;)

Not bad at all!  I'm liking Arcoscephale so far - and had a very nice stroke of luck in turn 2 too!  Also this map is stonking, if a tad confusing.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 14, 2013, 04:40:02 PM
Your right.  I also need to figure out how to research tanks with flamethrowers.

(http://s21.postimg.org/ejbeuf5t3/sherman_flamethrower.jpg)

Tanks with flamethrowers FTW!!


P.S. Excellent choice for a pic.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 14, 2013, 04:50:56 PM
This is my new favorite tbs, no matter how this game turns out (as I am thinking it won't be in my favor for this first mp).  I love it.  How often are Dom games running?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 14, 2013, 04:53:05 PM
Your right.  I also need to figure out how to research tanks with flamethrowers.

(http://s21.postimg.org/ejbeuf5t3/sherman_flamethrower.jpg)

Tanks with flamethrowers FTW!!


P.S. Excellent choice for a pic.

Bitch please.

(http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/1080/rhinojetsis0.jpg)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 14, 2013, 04:57:09 PM
This is my new favorite tbs, no matter how this game turns out (as I am thinking it won't be in my favor for this first mp).  I love it.  How often are Dom games running?

Well, in this community we've only just started playing Dom3.  Now that you're a card-carrying member of Grogheads though, there's nothing to stop you creating more games.  But be warned that some people may have reached saturation point for now and won't commit to further games until the current ones end.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 14, 2013, 05:10:34 PM
This is my new favorite tbs, no matter how this game turns out (as I am thinking it won't be in my favor for this first mp).  I love it.  How often are Dom games running?

Well, in this community we've only just started playing Dom3.  Now that you're a card-carrying member of Grogheads though, there's nothing to stop you creating more games.  But be warned that some people may have reached saturation point for now and won't commit to further games until the current ones end.

Good point.  Plus as I now have to date less than 5 hours play time I still have a LOT of learning to do.  I believe I have spent more time trying to research how to play effectively then in any other game.  Fun times ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 14, 2013, 05:28:43 PM
keep an eye out here claes - im campaigning for a dom III section and in time the hope that we'll be a shining beacon of dom III availability - theres was such a rush for the MA game, im sure a few 10 player sized games will go down well in a while - they just need to be advertised well - once the carnage of all the new sign ups calms down ill speak to the admin guys and a few others including Jason about DM-ing games - not essential to play but to admin those games others want to play
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 14, 2013, 05:34:54 PM
keep an eye out here claes - im campaigning for a dom III section and in time the hope that we'll be a shining beacon of dom III availability - theres was such a rush for the MA game, im sure a few 10 player sized games will go down well in a while - they just need to be advertised well - once the carnage of all the new sign ups calms down ill speak to the admin guys and a few others including Jason about DM-ing games - not essential to play but to admin those games others want to play

Will do; I got here from the wargamer forums (where Jason also posted this game) and I am amazed at the community here and am so happy to have found it.  There are not many places on the web with such singleness of purpose and the sense of camaraderie - even when you are opposed - is palpable.  Thank you all for welcoming me and special thanks to Jason for cross posting about it and for setting it up ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 14, 2013, 05:37:32 PM
I am amazed at the community here and am so happy to have found it.

Grogheads really is a very friendly community indeed (except for Bison obviously).  It's my home away from home!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 14, 2013, 05:39:18 PM
Whats the story behind your seemingly blind hatred of Huw?

Good question!  Well, Bison?  What do you have to say for yourself?!


Tea?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 15, 2013, 08:22:12 AM
This is my new favorite tbs, no matter how this game turns out (as I am thinking it won't be in my favor for this first mp).  I love it.  How often are Dom games running?

Well, in this community we've only just started playing Dom3.  Now that you're a card-carrying member of Grogheads though, there's nothing to stop you creating more games.  But be warned that some people may have reached saturation point for now and won't commit to further games until the current ones end.

i.e., four turns from now in my Early game. ;)


I'm back from my Sunday trip, so I'll be able to play my turns this afternoon, about 7 hours from now.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 15, 2013, 09:11:37 AM
wooooohooooo
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 15, 2013, 11:39:11 AM
Looks like Jason and I are neighbors!! Azag says hi  :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 15, 2013, 06:49:38 PM
Hey we got our own sub forum!  WOOT!!!!


Huw must not like tea.  For that his empire must be vanquished.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ubercat on April 15, 2013, 07:38:01 PM
Remember guys, if you're the last player to send in your turn you can wait a few seconds or a minute for the server to process the game and then take another turn. Twice the fun!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 15, 2013, 11:43:03 PM
Huw must not like tea.  For that his empire must be vanquished.

I'm more of a coffee man myself. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 16, 2013, 05:55:38 AM
Huw must not like tea.  For that his empire must be vanquished.

I'm more of a coffee man myself. :)

Me too.  Two pots a day.  I'll spare you for a few turns.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Myrmidon on April 16, 2013, 06:02:45 AM
The map is a beautiful map.  Does anybody know if it was created from a certain lore, or made for Dominions 3?

That being said, it seems like some of us are clustered pretty close together... not complaining, just an observation.  The game will be fun in either case, even if I'm trampled (or drowned....)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: KingoftheScots on April 16, 2013, 06:05:43 AM
It is a pretty map. From D&D, baldurs gate and icewind dale are set on this map, i believe
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 16, 2013, 06:17:48 AM
It's the Forgotten Realms campaign map of Faerun.  The most famous and popular of the Dungeons and Dragons campaign worlds.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 16, 2013, 06:40:42 AM
Hm, yes I'm a bit surprised at having as many close proximity starts. But of course the system doesn't try to average out distances among starting locations, and the number of nostart areas could also be contributing to proximities (since at the moment of game generation it's as if the game doesn't have those provinces, thus the map is "smaller" by that amount.)

Well, that's how the cards get dealt. People will just have to deal with early diplomacy and/or knife fighting. That's what makes history so epic, too.  :D

I think it's awesome that in large games like this, a dozen epic stories could be happening over where I'll never even hear of them.  8) Meanwhile I have two close neighbors to deal with myself one way or another, which strongly affects my decisions of where I should expand or if or when, and what I ought to be doing with my troops, and my pretender, etc. etc. etc.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 16, 2013, 06:43:08 AM
Meanwhile: I have decided to keep the maximum day lag where it is for now (I think 80 hours?), since W8 is in Boston.

Remember, the turnaround time doesn't in the least restrict how often we can have turns, it only provides leeway for turn delays. We can still have turns as often as all of us get our turns submitted.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 16, 2013, 07:22:09 AM
Hey guys just wanted to let you know that I'll be able to play my turn today after work no problem.  Thankfully I'm unaffected by what happened yesterday in Boston. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 16, 2013, 07:49:30 AM
Hey guys just wanted to let you know that I'll be able to play my turn today after work no problem.  Thankfully I'm unaffected by what happened yesterday in Boston.

glad to see you here and ok W8 - thoughts and prayers are with you and all the 'minute' family
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 16, 2013, 01:43:07 PM
Why would I be getting a turn 2 instead of turn 3?  Any theories on this one?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 16, 2013, 01:51:25 PM
Meh...I figured it out.  There was a second turn saved in my folder causing the error.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 16, 2013, 02:51:30 PM
You've been hitting the coffee too hard!

I'll try not to spill your pot when I run you through. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 16, 2013, 02:54:29 PM
I'm not even sure I'll ever be to expand in this game.  I might just make a super duper mighty huge army to defend my lone province!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 16, 2013, 11:23:23 PM
Some nations definitely have trouble expanding against independents. If you're one of them, some tips:

1) It can be helpful to recruit heavy mercenaries to boost your forces.

2) Also it can be nice to have a prophet near your front line, in your army, but behind a big nice solid block of infantry scripted to smitex5. Smite can kill even heavy cavalry in one hit. Just don't put him much further back then midfield or he might be out of range.

3) In many cases where all you have is melee, but have good protection to arrow fire (heavy armor versus anything but crossbows, or armor + shields), it can be useful to place all your units all the way back with a hold and attack closest. That way, when you attack any independent with mixed speed melee, by the time your forces engage them, they will be strung out. Corresponding, make sure your melee blobs are made up of roughly the same speed of soldiers.

4) If your national troops are really bad, check each and every decently resourced province you conquer for independent troops. I like leather armor crossbowmen and barbarians in particular (though they are the harder indies to conquer).

5) Make sure to keep your commanders out of harms way! Usually that means putting them behind your front line, not in it.

I'm no expert (just started playing my first MP game 3 weeks ago), but these are some things that I have done that have helped me in the past!

Cheers :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 16, 2013, 11:49:55 PM
Great tips!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 17, 2013, 01:46:02 AM
Great tips!

you know that guy i was telling you about in another game that came too close to my capital so he could get round the mountain range?

and we agreed i should block him and kick his ass?

and then he sent a 100 strong army of freaking demons to kill me?

thats elitesix
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 17, 2013, 09:57:38 AM
Well that army is mostly monkeys..but yes a good amount of demons-ogres!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 17, 2013, 10:02:14 AM
pffft monkeys - you should have said!!!

<<comes out from behind castle>>
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 17, 2013, 10:03:53 AM
our war in that other game hasn't even really started...

whereas jason and I have already started our knife fight...:/
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 17, 2013, 10:11:40 AM
our war in that other game hasn't even really started...

whereas jason and I have already started our knife fight...:/

yeah i perceived it to be more handbags at dawn hence my PM - but since you broke my castle and we're talking monkeys - its on!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 17, 2013, 11:09:17 AM
Watch out for those monkey missile weapons,...they are not pleasant,....even if you survive.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 17, 2013, 11:19:18 AM
Merc heavy cav is often one of the most cost-effective troops in the game. Heavy cav is notoriously pricey on a per-unit troop basis.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 17, 2013, 11:33:58 AM
I myself like conjured, magic, creatures. Cheap and it doesn't bother me one bit when they die. But of course you have to have mages that can lead magic creatures.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 17, 2013, 11:35:29 AM
(http://t.qkme.me/3tyi9r.jpg)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 17, 2013, 11:57:25 AM
there are many still to send in turns

jesus thats a scary pic
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 17, 2013, 12:13:59 PM
Watch out for those monkey missile weapons,...they are not pleasant,....even if you survive.

sticks and stones may break your bones!! (the ingame weaponry for default monkeys includes "sticks and stones" :) )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 17, 2013, 12:29:34 PM
archers,...slingers,...I think the monkies should have flingers..........
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 17, 2013, 12:30:57 PM
there are many still to send in turns

Yeah, even after I went out of my way to take a turn before work this morning, too!

(Nothing at all to do with the fact that I LOVE this game and just wanted to play.....no!)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 17, 2013, 12:52:07 PM
Note for the Spielfuehrer:

The two sentence message at the begining of the Groghammer game status page on the Llama server should probably be updated to something that is universally applicable (if it can still be changed).  When I glanced at it this morning for two seconds I thought it was talking about this coming Saturday.

Apart from that you've done a great job making this come together: your efforts are appreciated.  Buy that man a round of drinks!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 17, 2013, 01:02:31 PM
Note for the Spielfuehrer:

The two sentence message at the begining of the Groghammer game status page on the Llama server should probably be updated to something that is universally applicable (if it can still be changed).  When I glanced at it this morning for two seconds I thought it was talking about this coming Saturday.

Apart from that you've done a great job making this come together: your efforts are appreciated.  Buy that man a round of drinks!

i think Jason mentioned leaving the limit in to accommodate W8 in Boston, on the assumption that if everyone went fast enough then the turns would tick over on their own anyway

of course there are always those who see an 80 hour limit and use it

YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE!!!!!  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 17, 2013, 01:57:44 PM
there are many still to send in turns

Yeah, even after I went out of my way to take a turn before work this morning, too!

(Nothing at all to do with the fact that I LOVE this game and just wanted to play.....no!)

Ha!  I love the game so much that I woke myself up a little after midnight last night remembering I forgot to submit my turn.  Then a few minutes later I got the next turn and played that too!  Didn't go to bed until about 1am last night.  :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 17, 2013, 02:00:19 PM
...jesus thats a scary pic

Yeah but she's kind of cute in a scary way.   :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 17, 2013, 03:35:21 PM
archers,...slingers,...I think the monkies should have flingers..........

They do (or in MA they do -- too bad no one picked them up after I sacrificed them for Oceana). They fling rocks and sticks, but still, same principle.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 17, 2013, 03:39:50 PM
...jesus thats a scary pic

Yeah but she's kind of cute in a scary way.   :)

Cute scary girlfriend is cute. And highly caffeinated.


Philippe, not sure what you meant, so I just deleted that paragraph (in case it's bothering the Wargamer members. Feelings can be touchy between the two groups, for reasons.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 17, 2013, 03:44:36 PM
Philippe, not sure what you meant, so I just deleted that paragraph (in case it's bothering the Wargamer members. Feelings can be touchy between the two groups, for reasons.)

i think it was referring to the two top lines on the groghammer llamaserver game status about the 80 hours
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 17, 2013, 04:09:58 PM
Ah! Yes, I'd forgotten about that. Fixed now.

Next turn shall certainly be significant out of the gate!--I may not be playing my nation much longer! {lol!}

But that will leave me more free to pick up someone else's nation by necromantic admin possession if someone has to drop out. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 17, 2013, 04:21:12 PM
Already???

What's happened - tell of your across map epic tales
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Phobos on April 17, 2013, 04:30:04 PM
I'm betting that another water nation had a very close start.

Atlantis has a combat god (what the Hero lists says).  So I'm thinking they just went straight for the kill.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 17, 2013, 04:50:14 PM
Quote from: Gamin, from CRY OF JUSTICE chapter 66, "Avalanche Dancing"
"Ah!--what an amusing game! I had worried he might escape me after all--but look! There he is!--practically begging me to kill him!"

...but then his evil smile deflated.

"There . . . there he is . . . he is . . .

"he is coming here!

"Argh! No, back up, back up!"


Edited to add: I suppose since Atlantis has already sent in his turn, I can add some more details.

Atlantis is stuck in a poor position with only a few underwater provinces that couldn't be challenged by me, while I'm only a couple of territories away and blocking literally all the access to the rest of the saltwater on the map. (R'yleh, by contrast, only has access to the inland freshwater ocean, but has ALL OF THAT to grow in.)

So since Atlantis started with an Ancient Kraken supercombatant, he really would be well-advised to go ahead and try to knock me out early. (Or ally with me, but I'm a crazed death-dealing madman in this game--which he didn't know yet but which will become more apparent as the game goes on assuming I survive, so I'm not spoiling much: I named him after an insane killer mage in my novel after all.)

Once I saw his SCPretender show up nearby on turn 2 (rampaging over the local indies by himself!), I decided to send most of my troops somewhere else after another turn building them up a bit so I could be reasonably sure they'd survive to come back on turn 5, meanwhile building up my province defense a little. So on turn 4 (after he took another nearby territory on turn 3), I moved the bulk of my army off north to grab the nearest feasible underwater territory (without many casualties), while he invaded my home territory. (He had politely alerted me by messenger first on turn 3, since his strategy necessarily means one or the other of us will surely be removed or badly crippled early in the game, so I was expecting an attack sometime soon.)

I spent that turn researching, even though I was going to be a point shy of picking up the next level of [redacted] I was going for, the upshot being that all my big guns were out of the way when he invaded. I'd be surprised if my garrison managed to kill even two of his units (he brought significantly more than his Cracktopus ;) ), but that wasn't their purpose anyway.

This turn, I'm bringing all my troops back, and sallying forth to break the siege. My mages are going to saiyan up in the early rounds of the fight, and pretty much everyone (including Gamin) is going "closest giant monster" hunting in waves, with the hope that I can poison, charge, shock, and/or hand-of-dust the Cracktopus to death. It's conceivably possible that even if I kill him his troops will drive me from the field, and hold the territory after all, but I don't really have any better option.

Best case imaginable scenario is that I take heavy casualties but drive his troops back a territory while killing his Pretender, leaving my own (somehow) still alive with maybe one other mage also surviving the fight. I can't imagine my military commander will survive, all things considered. Atlantis will still have a major cash advantage with the provinces his SCPretender grabbed for him, and he'd be insane not to start reinforcing those provinces asap, but he'll still have several feasible options for continuing, while even in the best case scenario my feasible options over the next few turns will be few.


So, assuming I even survive next turn with the ability to do anything meaningful at all, my odds of success overall still aren't good compared to his. That's just how things turn out sometimes. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 17, 2013, 04:58:48 PM
Philippe, not sure what you meant, so I just deleted that paragraph (in case it's bothering the Wargamer members. Feelings can be touchy between the two groups, for reasons.)

i think it was referring to the two top lines on the groghammer llamaserver game status about the 80 hours

Yes, and the needful has now been done.

We should have all started keeping journals from day one, so that when this is all over there will be a record of forgotten wars.  Never too late to start secret chronicles that are only published at game end -- but the individual entries should be short.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 17, 2013, 05:18:26 PM
Heh, my forgotten war will soon be forgotten I expect!  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 17, 2013, 05:26:31 PM
Well, if it makes you feel any better, my Kraken has an affliction. I don't know when recuperation is in the turn resolution, but he got his affliction on turn 2 :(

That being said, I do think it's an uphill battle for you...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 17, 2013, 05:34:56 PM
Azag, the Kraken-Demigod of Atlantis, bided its time for three millennium (aside: he's 2900+ years old and is not even in "old age" in game :) ). In the deep, cold, dark recesses of the deepest trenches of the ocean, he lay in wait. There, in murky deeps, where no light can penetrate, he foresaw that the Pankrator would fall, and that there would be a chance for his rightful ascension to supreme Godhood. Two hundred years ago, in preparation, he conquered the Coral Towers of Atlantis and converted the Atlantean rulers to his cause with promises of glory, riches, and power, in exchange for their allegiance. And then it happened, the Pankrator disappeared, and various pretenders around the world prepared for war.

Gamin, the Archmage-Demigod of Oceania, would be his first victim. Whether by the might of the Atlantean armies, the ancient strength of the Kraken himself, or his ability to inspire people to worship him by his mere presence, the deed would be done, within the first year of the ascension war. Azag would see to it!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 17, 2013, 05:50:45 PM
We should have all started keeping journals from day one, so that when this is all over there will be a record of forgotten wars.  Never too late to start secret chronicles that are only published at game end -- but the individual entries should be short.

What you say is exactly what I am writing atm...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 17, 2013, 06:14:02 PM
Double post, dunno how to delete myself...
Sry.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 17, 2013, 06:41:34 PM
Intraweb issues this evening I'll try to get on and send back my turn later tonight.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 17, 2013, 07:19:48 PM
I suppose I will tease the audience by revealing ahead of time there is one other factor to my strategy I haven't mentioned yet. Whether it will come into play, and what affect it will have, remains to be seen. We'll know when the next turn processes.

Or I'll know at least.  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Myrmidon on April 17, 2013, 08:13:25 PM
(MyrMagus, goddess of Ulm, stands by watching the underwater melee between the titans on her doorstep, eating popcorn and having a very bad feeling about what's going on.....)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 17, 2013, 08:27:38 PM
(MyrMagus, goddess of Ulm, stands by watching the underwater melee between the titans on her doorstep, eating popcorn and having a very bad feeling about what's going on.....)

If you get a scout in there, you might get a front row view of the battle!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ubercat on April 17, 2013, 08:33:35 PM
Nice helmets, guys!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 17, 2013, 08:46:01 PM
Fair warning on turns - coming up on Friday the 26th I will be leaving at dawn to hike 20 miles in a place not too unlike the map area I am playing on atm, and then camping overnight that night and the next and coming back to internet on Sunday the 28th very sore and much worse for wear.  I hope that this does not inconvenience anyone too much.  My pretender is already pissed at me.  He seems to want constant attention.  I will have to make some sacrifices while I am on the march to appease him I suppose.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: KingoftheScots on April 17, 2013, 08:54:03 PM
Enjoy the hike! For me anyways, that works out well. I have a licencing exam to write on Monday, so probably the fewer turns the better :). In theory I'll study more!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 18, 2013, 02:39:40 AM
So, assuming I even survive next turn with the ability to do anything meaningful at all, my odds of success overall still aren't good compared to his. That's just how things turn out sometimes. :)

so that turned out to be a bit of an anti climax then!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 18, 2013, 07:22:20 AM
So, assuming I even survive next turn with the ability to do anything meaningful at all, my odds of success overall still aren't good compared to his. That's just how things turn out sometimes. :)

so that turned out to be a bit of an anti climax then!!

Why, do you know something I don't?! -- One of our pretenders could still die, I could still be knocked out of the game early this turn, and in the best case scenario we're going to cripple each other (in somewhat different ways) leading to a harsh struggle over the next few turns until one of us puts the other completely out.

The winner either way will be a bit handicapped compared to other factions for a while (as he recovers and tries to catch up to progress being made elsewhere), but will be protected by the ocean and will have undisputed claim on Faerun's saltwater oceans for the foreseeable future, becoming a dangerous powerhouse in the midgame, haunting shorelines over half the map.

Until Caelum sends in their turn, WE WON'T KNOOOOWWWW!!

(Although we'll kind of suspect.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 18, 2013, 07:24:24 AM
I like your sportsmanship about it all JasonPratt!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 18, 2013, 07:32:26 AM
So, assuming I even survive next turn with the ability to do anything meaningful at all, my odds of success overall still aren't good compared to his. That's just how things turn out sometimes. :)

so that turned out to be a bit of an anti climax then!!

Why, do you know something I don't?! -- One of our pretenders could still die, I could still be knocked out of the game early this turn, and in the best case scenario we're going to cripple each other (in somewhat different ways) leading to a harsh struggle over the next few turns until one of us puts the other completely out.

The winner either way will be a bit handicapped compared to other factions for a while (as he recovers and tries to catch up to progress being made elsewhere), but will be protected by the ocean and will have undisputed claim on Faerun's saltwater oceans for the foreseeable future, becoming a dangerous powerhouse in the midgame, haunting shorelines over half the map.

Until Caelum sends in their turn, WE WON'T KNOOOOWWWW!!

(Although we'll kind of suspect.)

lmao

i just mean that were all here to engage in the fantasy world of raising the dead, casting lightening bolts and summoning dragons and get deep into the strategy and depth of the game and enjoying it, and you got to turn 4 before your game is either fkd or over!

after spending over 3 weeks getting it all set up its taken 4 turns to end your game (effectively if not lterally)?

this was the anti climax i refer to
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 18, 2013, 07:36:51 AM
I like your sportsmanship about it all JasonPratt!

It helps that the character I'm playing is an impenitent monster this game. :) If he loses, everyone wins.

Plus I have two other games also running where I'm also about to be the first player destroyed in one of them doing somewhat better. ;)

Besides, God knows I have tons of other games to be playing. It isn't like I'm bored and this is my only possible outlet which I'm now being denied.


U'geek,

Oh! -- okay, yeah I hadn't even thought about that. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 18, 2013, 07:59:00 AM
Hey guys sorry about turn in hotel with worst Internet ever.   Ill try again tonight otherwise it might not be until Friday/Saturday in middle of moving ATM.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 18, 2013, 08:08:24 AM
(http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/8910/stockphotobusinessmanch.jpg) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/341/stockphotobusinessmanch.jpg/)

 :P

i know just how you feel, especially when brant wants an AAR update
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 18, 2013, 08:09:31 AM
Bison, I've bumped the clock ahead to Sunday night in case you need it.

Under'geek, can we have an AAR update? Or two?  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 18, 2013, 08:13:31 AM
Bison, I've bumped the clock ahead to Sunday night in case you need it.

Under'geek, can we have an AAR update? Or two?  ;D

im back tonight and should be able to get out a good 2 or 3 updates - i still dont think youll star in them though for a while - should be able to crank out a pile this weekend too

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 18, 2013, 08:40:23 AM
Hey guys sorry about turn in hotel with worst Internet ever.   Ill try again tonight otherwise it might not be until Friday/Saturday in middle of moving ATM.

coffee shop wifi ftw!!:)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 18, 2013, 09:39:51 AM
im back tonight and should be able to get out a good 2 or 3 updates - i still dont think youll star in them though for a while - should be able to crank out a pile this weekend too

I can't say I'm in all that much of a rush to be featured in your AAR yet. ;) So no hurry.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 18, 2013, 01:36:34 PM
The way the game is going so far,...it should have been labeled as a slow game,.....
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 18, 2013, 01:42:52 PM
^Interesting.  If this is a slow game that implies a fast game in Dom3 with this many human players is 3+ turn turnaround per day?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 18, 2013, 01:45:57 PM
^Interesting.  If this is a slow game that implies a fast game in Dom3 with this many human players is 3+ turn turnaround per day?

Nope. 1 turn a day,... which over half of the turns in this game so far have taken longer than. This many delays this early in the game IS NOT a good sign.

But don't take it wrong,...I usually avoid PBEM games because I don't have a lot of patience.......this game doesn't give you any other option for multiplayer. I have owned the game for around 2 years and this is my first MP game,.......now you know why.  I'll try to have a little patience,...but I hope others will try to get their turns done as well.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 18, 2013, 01:51:04 PM
I see.  Well we did have a good weekend last week with a 2 turn per day turnaround time.  I'm not surprised the pace has slowed down during the week. 

I could definitely keep a 1 or 2 turn a day turnaround time everyday on a game like this but I know quite a few of the other players here are limited.  I have a feeling this game is going to be a good one and we'll see it through quite a ways in.  May take us a bit longer than average but we'll get there nonetheless.   ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 18, 2013, 01:56:09 PM
I see.  Well we did have a good weekend last week with a 2 turn per day turnaround time.  I'm not surprised the pace has slowed down during the week. 

I could definitely keep a 1 or 2 turn a day turnaround time everyday on a game like this but I know quite a few of the other players here are limited.  I have a feeling this game is going to be a good one and we'll see it through quite a ways in.  May take us a bit longer than average but we'll get there nonetheless.   ;)


  I clarified my post above. As I said in it I don't play PBEM very often........so I may be wrong in my assumption that 1 turn a day is normal.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 18, 2013, 02:02:19 PM
I see.  Well we did have a good weekend last week with a 2 turn per day turnaround time.  I'm not surprised the pace has slowed down during the week. 

I could definitely keep a 1 or 2 turn a day turnaround time everyday on a game like this but I know quite a few of the other players here are limited.  I have a feeling this game is going to be a good one and we'll see it through quite a ways in.  May take us a bit longer than average but we'll get there nonetheless.   ;)

The quality of this game will directly depend on the quality of the players in and near the empty expanses of this map.

Look at the northeast corner for example. It's sick how much land that one capital has. And it's not even wasteland (despite the depiction on the map). The sheer amount of territory the player in the northwest will capture uncontested is mind-boggling. Then look at the isles to the middle west portion of the map-  the isles. Or the sea between Jason and me. If those wars between close capitals aren't over quickly, the outlying nations will have a huge advantage- there are a few areas of the map where a player is about 7+ provinces away from another capital. It will be incumbent upon those nearest to those faraway capitals to expand directly toward the faraway capitals. Otherwise, you're going to see huge nations emerge into mid-game without any worry about having an early rush, so they power through with low military high research and have the ability to overpower nations that had to grow more cautiously.

Still, those of us who manage to secure an enemy capital early in game have a good shot at dealing with those runaway nations. Or at least that's the hope :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 18, 2013, 02:05:44 PM
I think, with this many players, it's inevitable that tehre is going to a be a low turnaround time and a lot of delays. I think it will also be a bit more interesting.  ;)

The good thing about PBEM though, is that you can be in multiple games at once if you've got time for more turns.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 18, 2013, 02:11:15 PM
I see.  Well we did have a good weekend last week with a 2 turn per day turnaround time.  I'm not surprised the pace has slowed down during the week. 

I could definitely keep a 1 or 2 turn a day turnaround time everyday on a game like this but I know quite a few of the other players here are limited.  I have a feeling this game is going to be a good one and we'll see it through quite a ways in.  May take us a bit longer than average but we'll get there nonetheless.   ;)


  I clarified my post above. As I said in it I don't play PBEM very often........so I may be wrong in my assumption that 1 turn a day is normal.

its cool, i think a few of us, including me, would like it to go a bit faster, in fact a quicker flurry of activity and a few turns in a day makes it worse because you get deeply involved in your kingdom and then have to stop for 4 days. BUT in joining the game we take on everyones schedule and the weird stuff that happens to them and us - my solution? i joined 5 other games and im still sat here waiting for a frikking turn!!!!!

on the other hand i think people will play to the limits set by the admin - im in a 28hr turnaround game with elitesix and noone has a problem sending the turns in

I think 80 hours might be a bit lax here - there will be players that take it to 79hours and 59 minutes because thats what the server said was ok, those same people will have no problem with 36 because, yup, thats what the server said

As for Elitesix, i suppose its apples and oranges, id much prefer everyone to get to a mid point of the game, unleashing magical mayhem on the battlefield and fielding their best/near best forces - im not saying rushing is unfair, but for me personally it spoils the game

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 18, 2013, 02:21:47 PM
I see.  Well we did have a good weekend last week with a 2 turn per day turnaround time.  I'm not surprised the pace has slowed down during the week. 

I could definitely keep a 1 or 2 turn a day turnaround time everyday on a game like this but I know quite a few of the other players here are limited.  I have a feeling this game is going to be a good one and we'll see it through quite a ways in.  May take us a bit longer than average but we'll get there nonetheless.   ;)


  I clarified my post above. As I said in it I don't play PBEM very often........so I may be wrong in my assumption that 1 turn a day is normal.

its cool, i think a few of us, including me, would like it to go a bit faster, in fact a quicker flurry of activity and a few turns in a day makes it worse because you get deeply involved in your kingdom and then have to stop for 4 days. BUT in joining the game we take on everyones schedule and the weird stuff that happens to them and us - my solution? i joined 5 other games and im still sat here waiting for a frikking turn!!!!!

on the other hand i think people will play to the limits set by the admin - im in a 28hr turnaround game with elitesix and noone has a problem sending the turns in

I think 80 hours might be a bit lax here - there will be players that take it to 79hours and 59 minutes because thats what the server said was ok, those same people will have no problem with 36 because, yup, thats what the server said

As for Elitesix, i suppose its apples and oranges, id much prefer everyone to get to a mid point of the game, unleashing magical mayhem on the battlefield and fielding their best/near best forces - im not saying rushing is unfair, but for me personally it spoils the game

I think it's very fun to be a part of the midgame.

I also think it's also important to play to your nation's/pretender's strengths. Some nations have a better early game (rushing), other's mid, other's late game.

In this game, with a SCPretender, my strength's in the early game. Similarly, in my Lanka game, I went with a heavy bless strategy. (And yes I'm playing LA Abysia in MarchOfTheNewb and went with a non-rushing strat!) These are points that I did not spend toward better scales, especially better magic scales (better mid and late game), or on a pretender with lots of magic scales for site searching or mid/late game spellcasting. So it made sense that I would rush if the opportunity presented itself. It still remains to be seen if my rushes will be successful however. If a rusher fails, he's in a bad position because he's usually behind in research and income. So it's a tradeoff. We'll see if it was one worth making :).

-----

Regarding the time, I agree with what undercovergeek said. The game advertised 48 hours per turn initially, and that's what people expect. I have no problem with a few delays here and there, and since we started, we're roughly averaging at least 1 turn per two days so I'm personally satisfied. But I do think it's probably best we set the turn timer to 48 hours asap, because otherwise it may seem like a bad precedent.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 18, 2013, 02:24:22 PM
dont get me wrong it makes for an interesting game!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 18, 2013, 02:39:19 PM


Look at the northeast corner for example. It's sick how much land that one capital has.

 Heh, that's me in the northeast corner all alone,....that also adds to my impatience to exploit them as much as possible :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 18, 2013, 02:42:21 PM


Look at the northeast corner for example. It's sick how much land that one capital has.

 Heh, that's me in the northwest corner all alone,....that also adds to my impatience to exploit them as much as possible :)

were all on our way!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 18, 2013, 02:44:14 PM
Scott, I'll echo what others have said: join more games.  I'm currently involved in three and I usually have at least one turn a day to take now.  Also, as the games develop you'll find yourself needing to devote more and more time to each turn.  Eventually you'll be regretting not having enough time in the day to do anything. ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 18, 2013, 03:05:04 PM


Look at the northeast corner for example. It's sick how much land that one capital has.

 Heh, that's me in the northwest corner all alone,....that also adds to my impatience to exploit them as much as possible :)

were all on our way!

That was an epic battle my friend!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 18, 2013, 03:27:25 PM
sadly not quite epic enough!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 18, 2013, 03:28:09 PM
Awww, did you get your little bottom kicked, Geek? :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 18, 2013, 03:46:25 PM
Awww, did you get your little bottom kicked, Geek? :D

it looked promising, i even thought at one point it was more than that, then it just fell apart when my centaurs ran for cover and my minotaur lord got turned into roast beef - however the great anti-lanka campaign has started, i have been gifted huge sums of money and promises of reprisal attacks in the rear - its all gone a bit 'war'
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 18, 2013, 08:24:56 PM
2 turns submitted.  You all may proceed destroying Huw and Underpants....

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 19, 2013, 01:12:47 AM
Another epic battle. I liked your secret weapon Jason!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 19, 2013, 04:01:12 AM
Another epic battle. I liked your secret weapon Jason!!

What was it?
Who won?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 19, 2013, 09:26:42 AM
Jason's secret weapon basically messed me up for the rest of the game :(
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 09:37:40 AM
Quote
A little stronger Gamin grows, forcing other strengths to serve!

(I still haven't seen the reply, and won't for another several hours. But whew. I have some hope.)


In regard to turn length: I will probably pull it back to 48 hours after this weekend, but the past weekend (when we started) I had pushed it out early because I had gotten word Friday that I wouldn't be available at all Sunday (and naturally not Monday until after work sometime of course). We still had turns within 48 hours, from Saturday night to Monday afternoon/night sometime, but the system clock pushed the cutoff further ahead as the turns were completed.

At about the time I was going to fix this, we heard from people they were going to be out of pocket over the weekend, so I pushed the timeclock ahead to next Monday to be safe. Once we're past the weekend I'll contract it again.

This is a large game with many human players, so odds are good that we'll have more real-life delay issues than a smaller game with only five players (for example). No one signed up with the understanding and acceptance that they would be penalized with auto-turns regardless of real-life circumstances, and I'm not about to change that policy to a hardline 48 hour autoturn. Not without a unanimous request from the other players anyway.

Four turns in a little less than eight days (from last Friday until today) == 2-day turns on average. So until that significantly increases on average over meaningful amounts of time, I'm not going to worry about it.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on April 19, 2013, 09:55:54 AM

 Hey, there is already a Dom3 subforum. Things grow fast (like under a Growth 3 scale). Can the Dominions 3 Q&A thread be also moved here? Seems a good place for new players to ask things, and is kinda lost in the other subforum.

 Regarding an AAR, normally people who write them do it with some delay regarding the actual game; something like 10 turns of more. And even that way it's still complicated, since it can reveal very sensible information, starting from your Capital's position and neighboring players stuff.

 Submarine people already started killing each other? Must be quite a sight. I have to reach a coast yet.


Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 19, 2013, 09:56:13 AM
Quote
A little stronger Gamin grows, forcing other strengths to serve!

In regard to turn length: I will probably pull it back to 48 hours after this weekend, but the past weekend (when we started) I had pushed it out early because I had gotten word Friday that I wouldn't be available at all Sunday (and naturally not Monday until after work sometime of course). We still had turns within 48 hours, from Saturday night to Monday afternoon/night sometime, but the system clock pushed the cutoff further ahead as the turns were completed.

At about the time I was going to fix this, we heard from people they were going to be out of pocket over the weekend, so I pushed the timeclock ahead to next Monday to be safe. Once we're past the weekend I'll contract it again.

This is a large game with many human players, so odds are good that we'll have more real-life delay issues than a smaller game with only five players (for example). No one signed up with the understanding and acceptance that they would be penalized with auto-turns regardless of real-life circumstances, and I'm not about to change that policy to a hardline 48 hour autoturn. Not without a unanimous request from the other players anyway.

Four turns in a little less than eight days (from last Friday until today) == 2-day turns on average. So until that significantly increases on average over meaningful amounts of time, I'm not going to worry about it.

from my point of view personally, as previously mentioned, if you put up an 80 hour limit someone will use it, if you put up 48 hours the same person will use 47 hours and 58 minutes - the more relaxed you are with it the more it will slow down - it was originally 48 hours and you put an awful lot of effort into researching what would happen if that wasnt adhered to and how to work it - extending it to 80 shouldnt have been the fix. It should be a fixed time amount - probably 48, and if someone cant make that then nobody in the community would complain if the limit was expanded for whatever reason, and if anyone else wants to duck in under that extension umberella then they dont need to say anything by confusing you with more extension requests - its already been extended by the first request.

But to arbitrarily extend it to 80 and say the community will police themselves isnt right for the other 20 players all watching the one guy whos going to take 79 hours without asking for an extension - because at 80 he didnt need to

anyway - lets game, its all about the gaming and im enjoying it very much - glad the elitesix battle went well - mine didnt

are we allowed to know what the secret weapon is?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 19, 2013, 10:00:56 AM
Quote
A little stronger Gamin grows, forcing other strengths to serve!

In regard to turn length: I will probably pull it back to 48 hours after this weekend, but the past weekend (when we started) I had pushed it out early because I had gotten word Friday that I wouldn't be available at all Sunday (and naturally not Monday until after work sometime of course). We still had turns within 48 hours, from Saturday night to Monday afternoon/night sometime, but the system clock pushed the cutoff further ahead as the turns were completed.

At about the time I was going to fix this, we heard from people they were going to be out of pocket over the weekend, so I pushed the timeclock ahead to next Monday to be safe. Once we're past the weekend I'll contract it again.

This is a large game with many human players, so odds are good that we'll have more real-life delay issues than a smaller game with only five players (for example). No one signed up with the understanding and acceptance that they would be penalized with auto-turns regardless of real-life circumstances, and I'm not about to change that policy to a hardline 48 hour autoturn. Not without a unanimous request from the other players anyway.

Four turns in a little less than eight days (from last Friday until today) == 2-day turns on average. So until that significantly increases on average over meaningful amounts of time, I'm not going to worry about it.

from my point of view personally, as previously mentioned, if you put up an 80 hour limit someone will use it, if you put up 48 hours the same person will use 47 hours and 58 minutes - the more relaxed you are with it the more it will slow down - it was originally 48 hours and you put an awful lot of effort into researching what would happen if that wasnt adhered to and how to work it - extending it to 80 shouldnt have been the fix. It should be a fixed time amount - probably 48, and if someone cant make that then nobody in the community would complain if the limit was expanded for whatever reason, and if anyone else wants to duck in under that extension umberella then they dont need to say anything by confusing you with more extension requests - its already been extended by the first request.

But to arbitrarily extend it to 80 and say the community will police themselves isnt right for the other 20 players all watching the one guy whos going to take 79 hours without asking for an extension - because at 80 he didnt need to

anyway - lets game, its all about the gaming and im enjoying it very much - glad the elitesix battle went well - mine didnt

are we allowed to know what the secret weapon is?

If Jason wants to talk about, I'm ok with that. He may or may not want to talk about it because he could use it against most other nations.

I'm not going to volunteer it, because his secret weapon weakened me significantly (in a very specific way though) and other nations could take advantage of that if they knew.

Oh, and I agree with you geek :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 11:32:19 AM
But to arbitrarily extend it to 80 and say the community will police themselves isnt right for the other 20 players all watching the one guy whos going to take 79 hours without asking for an extension - because at 80 he didnt need to

The extensions were not done arbitrarily, but for specific reasons based on explicit scheduling concerns.

I considered keeping the (first) extension (to 80 hours) in place permanently, due to the size of the group and in anticipation of problems cropping up regularly in a group this size. Also not arbitrary, except in the sense of an arbiter having reasons to do something. ;) But not arbitrary in the popular sense.

Since that seems to be unpopular, I won't do it, and I'll just try to provide extensions when alerted by players. But I said from the beginning that players will be allowed extensions if they ask for them ahead of time due to scheduling issues.

From experience I tend to expect people who are currently having connection difficulties during moving/travel to still have them over the weekend, so I moved the timecounter up to Monday for Bison's sake. If you think you're in good shape to continue from here, Bison, I'll put the normal counter back to 48 hours (although the system will still have to catch up to the current mark before that goes into effect).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 11:57:42 AM
are we allowed to know what the secret weapon is?

If Jason wants to talk about, I'm ok with that. He may or may not want to talk about it because he could use it against most other nations.

I'm not going to volunteer it, because his secret weapon weakened me significantly (in a very specific way though) and other nations could take advantage of that if they knew.

I actually talked about it in detail yesterday, back upthread somewhere. I'll let people research it. :) (Of course I'm assuming that that's the part of my plan that worked -- I still haven't seen the game video, and won't for another four hours probably.)


What I can reveal beyond what I already talked about in detail, is the other (actually secret) factor I hadn't talked about (but mentioned that I hadn't talked about already. So to speak. ;) )

That other factor was this: part of my reason for exposing so much of my plan publicly, for defending myself against Elitesix, was to see if he would change his orders and back his pretender out of my capitol city. (Also to provide a bit of colorful drama while waiting for Bison to send in his turn.)

See, the final player hadn't sent in his turn at that time, so E6 could have read my strategy, decided it had too much chance of working, and then pulled his pretender back to safety, if not his whole besieging army: he could have adjusted and resent his turn.

I wasn't at all sure my main tactical plan had much chance of working; nor was I sure I could beat his besieging army if he pulled back his pretender while my troops were set for my current tactics, since he did have quite a number of elite troops on the field and my troops might not have time to work through the scripts and then be adjusted by the tactical AI for the current situation.

But I figured (a) I had at least some chance of winning if he kept his pretender in the area; and (b) I had at least some chance of winning if he moved his pretender out. So since I couldn't decide which chance was better I decided to balance things by setting up a situation where either one of those situations might occur.

That meant explaining my tactics in public, thus giving Elitesix an opportunity (if he decided to take it, though he might be chivalrous and/or confident enough not to resend his turn to adjust for it) to choose which situation I'd be walking into.

Thus explaining why I revealed my tactical plan publicly before the fight, and also what the secret factor was that I hadn't spoken of yet and which I couldn't know yet how it would play out. (But which I also mentioned publicly in case that helped with bluffing the pretender out of the area.)


Keep in mind, I still don't know at the moment what the results ended up being, other than hints from Elitesix that he admired the attempt and that it has crippled him longterm. I probably won't reveal what specifically happened on his side of the battle this afternoon either (unless he's okay with that, in which case he can do that himself so far as he wants to). For all I know my own pretender still died and most of my forces were wiped out and/or he still holds a besieging position on my capitol city. In which case, even if I hurt him longterm, I might as well forfeit because I will have no way to recover and withstand his siege (other than to wait a few turns while he reduces the walls).

So things are still quite up in the air. And as I said earlier, even in the best case scenario (from my standpoint) I expect to be badly hurt and I will still have a hard row to hoe trying to uproot him from nearby territories (if not to eliminate him from the game instead).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 19, 2013, 11:57:56 AM
From what's been posted and from what's happened so far I suspect that it's a bit too much to hope for, but thinking in terms of one turn a day as a goal to try to move towards would probably make most of us very happy.  This is a game for newbies, and you don't really need to put much time into making a move.

Before anyone panics, goals are something that are meant to be strived for (and probably not achieved).  80 hours seems like a long time, but with this many people it's probably inevitable that this is going to be a slow game. 

Having said that, we'll be lucky if we get off one turn each this weekend and the next, which is a a bit of a shame because in an ideal world people can usally find time to get off more turns on the weekend than during the week. The weekend is when you get in the extra turns that make your averages look a little better.

The reason I signed up for this was to give myself an excuse to learn the rules, so any speed will work for me.  But I do not intend to have more than one Dominions game running at any point (even if I become addicted).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 12:23:04 PM
Submarine people already started killing each other? Must be quite a sight. I have to reach a coast yet.

Personally I'm curious about what's going on up northwest on land. One post is like "That guy in the northwest is going to have an easy time expanding and will be a powerhouse midgame"; and suddenly I'm reading about a multi-national fight of some kind going on up there...? Not so easy expansion after all?!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 19, 2013, 12:36:43 PM
Well, at least this is one game in which I'm managing to keep a low profile!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 19, 2013, 12:41:43 PM
I was confused by the original post that mentioned it, and finally concluded (perhaps wrongly) that it was a post about the northeast corner of the map, but that the word west had crept into the discussion because the poster then proceeded to talk about the western islands.

When I looked at the northeast corner I had trouble seeing any crowns at all, but that's probably because I haven't figured out how to get the three graphics mods to run (and don't want to run the risk of being accused of a hacking attempt by Llamaserver) after I neglected to enable them for the initial setup.  The plain vanilla crowns tend to blend in to the terrain.

By the way, I had something odd happen when I sent my turn in last night.  I zipped it before sending it, and got a message back from Llama saying that the zip was apparently empty and that I should resend unzipped.  Can't remember if I had sent a zip or a rar, but Llama accepted the uncompressed format.  I only mention it for future reference. 

When I used to play Combat Mission (back in the days before the flood) I learned always to zip my moves before sending them because aol's invasive software had a habit of scrambling every fourth move.  But that took place in a different millenium...

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 19, 2013, 12:56:41 PM
Although the server is supposed to be able to handle compressed files, the turn files are small enough that I think it would be easier to just send them uncompressed.

I didn't even think AOL still existed...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 19, 2013, 01:06:36 PM
The happiest day of my digital life came over ten years ago when I ripped their software out of my computer and immediately noticed a significant improvement in performance.

AOL is still around.  It might be useful in areas that are too remote for broadband.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 19, 2013, 01:15:35 PM
The happiest day of my digital life came over ten years ago when I ripped their software out of my computer and immediately noticed a significant improvement in performance.

Substitute Norton Antivirus for AOL and I could say exactly the same thing!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 19, 2013, 01:17:55 PM
lol - loving this game and the LA one so far today

yet to open EA
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 02:04:42 PM
Philippe, don't worry in the least about Llamaserver complaining about the graphics mods. It isn't going to happen, because a graphic mod (per se) doesn't change anything "objective" about the units (how the units behave in-game), only the "subjective" graphics.

So experiment as you like. I have all the graphics mods listed in the very first post installed and enabled, with no problems. Actually, I wouldn't mind a further mod that changed the color of province names, since on some maps (like this one) the standard color is too light to easily read. (Of course a map like this one usually has the territories clearly labeled anyway. And any territory's name can be read from the main province info screen at the top, once it's right-click chosen.)


I'll also try to remember to look for all the crowns on the map this afternoon and list where they're located, here in the gamethread.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 02:05:34 PM
lol - loving this game and the LA one so far today

yet to open EA

No rush. Delay as long as you like. Two, three days even.  :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on April 19, 2013, 02:18:13 PM
Likewise I was somewhat confused by the blurring of the concept of west and east (I hope none of you are real world leaders.) but after examining the map I conclude we are talking about the northEAST.

Jason your suggestion of turning the clock back to 48 hours after the weekend but allowing anyone to ask for a delay seems the most reasonable course of action and fully in line with the original plan. It would have been great to get extra goes in this weekend as the game is just starting to get interesting but totally understandable that people need to work the game in around other real world events.

Just in case I get wiped out in short order by some super powerful tribe stomping on me can I thank you for organising this, I've learnt more in a few terms under the pressure of real opponent's than I would have in weeks of playing the A.I. even though I've not seen a trace of any of you!

Finally I have a idea, about your secret weapon along the lines of if I go you will go as well, probably a more experienced player will know better but its my theory no 1 and I'm sticking with it.

Cheers all and if you meet some undead on your travels in Faerun be nice to them they are just like you, but deader.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 19, 2013, 02:23:20 PM
Just to let you know (you can probably tell when you watch the battle) I didn't change my scripting after reading your post for honor reasons, and of course the chance you'd be luring me into doing just that.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 19, 2013, 02:26:19 PM
Philippe, don't worry in the least about Llamaserver complaining about the graphics mods. It isn't going to happen, because a graphic mod (per se) doesn't change anything "objective" about the units (how the units behave in-game), only the "subjective" graphics.

So experiment as you like. I have all the graphics mods listed in the very first post installed and enabled, with no problems. Actually, I wouldn't mind a further mod that changed the color of province names, since on some maps (like this one) the standard color is too light to easily read. (Of course a map like this one usually has the territories clearly labeled anyway. And any territory's name can be read from the main province info screen at the top, once it's right-click chosen.)


I'll also try to remember to look for all the crowns on the map this afternoon and list where they're located, here in the gamethread.

Reading your post over again makes me wonder if I haven't missed something that's really obvious (I do that a lot).

The balance mod (only) is enabled when I fire up the Groghammer game.

The balance mod and three graphics mods are enabled when I fire up any of the different practise games that I've started to make sure I understand the rules (which I don't completely, but I'm getting there).

Your two posts on this subject could be read to imply that you think there's a way to enable a graphics mod in a game that has already been created.

If there's a way to enable the three graphics mods that you are using in a game that has already started I would love to know about it.

Otherwise I'll just have to get used to those funny telephone polls with the strand of toilet paper hanging from their tops.

If there's a command that I'm not aware of (or am too pig-headed not to overlook) please advise.

I would like to be crushed as elegantly as possible.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 19, 2013, 02:27:06 PM
Sorry for the confusion, the original post was:
Quote
Look at the northeast corner for example. It's sick how much land that one capital has. And it's not even wasteland (despite the depiction on the map). The sheer amount of territory the player in the northwest will capture uncontested is mind-boggling. Then look at the isles to the middle west portion of the map-  the isles. Or the sea between Jason and me. If those wars between close capitals aren't over quickly, the outlying nations will have a huge advantage- there are a few areas of the map where a player is about 7+ provinces away from another capital. It will be incumbent upon those nearest to those faraway capitals to expand directly toward the faraway capitals. Otherwise, you're going to see huge nations emerge into mid-game without any worry about having an early rush, so they power through with low military high research and have the ability to overpower nations that had to grow more cautiously.

It should read:

Look at the northeast corner for example. It's sick how much land that one capital has. And it's not even wasteland (despite the depiction on the map). The sheer amount of territory the player in the NORTHEAST will capture uncontested is mind-boggling. Then look at the isles to the middle west portion of the map-  the isles. Or the sea between Jason and me. If those wars between close capitals aren't over quickly, the outlying nations will have a huge advantage- there are a few areas of the map where a player is about 7+ provinces away from another capital. It will be incumbent upon those nearest to those faraway capitals to expand directly toward the faraway capitals. Otherwise, you're going to see huge nations emerge into mid-game without any worry about having an early rush, so they power through with low military high research and have the ability to overpower nations that had to grow more cautiously.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 19, 2013, 02:35:34 PM
Out of curiosity, is it possible to modify a map so that starting locations can only occur in pre-selected locations? 

In other words, modify (for example) the Faerun map so that there are only 25 possible starting locations for however many players.  The exact starting positions would still be random, but it could be made impossible for two players to start too close to each other.

I'm sure this is in the part of the manual I haven't read yet.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 19, 2013, 02:39:01 PM
Yes it is. When you open up the map editor, you can select specific provinces and check a box that enables that province as a start location. It seems like a fairly tedious process in a map with so many provinces though...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 19, 2013, 02:42:35 PM
Out of curiosity, is it possible to modify a map so that starting locations can only occur in pre-selected locations? 

In other words, modify (for example) the Faerun map so that there are only 25 possible starting locations for however many players.  The exact starting positions would still be random, but it could be made impossible for two players to start too close to each other.

I'm sure this is in the part of the manual I haven't read yet.

It is.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on April 19, 2013, 02:43:25 PM
Likewise this may be covered elsewhere but how random is random. I did a test run of my setup just to make sure that I was not totally borking myself from day one and the computer placed me within 1 province of where I started in the real game. I presume that the system does a match on terrain type to ensure that the location is appropriate but it does seem fairly non random. (Although it gave me one less thing to worry about on turn one so suited me.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 03:05:53 PM
The random start should be completely randomized within the constraints of (1) where the map modder allowed starts; (2) no land for sea factions or vice versa (a hardcoded constraint for obvious reasons); and (3) whether the map modder allowed any random starts at all. Also (4) whether the person starting the game (or the map modder in various ways) forces the game to allow a certain number of territories already under player control at gamestart.

So for example, I could have modded the map so that there would only be 23 start locations, and tried to set them with balanced distances and lands, and there would have been random starts among those 23 locations only. Or I could have set up the map file (by direct textual coding) so that if Atlantis shows up in a game it will always start at this location, and Oceania will always start over there if present, etc., for all the factions. Or for ONLY factions I expect to be playing (so no R'yleh for example). I could even set up the map this way so that the three ocean factions will always start in the same locations, but the landstarts are left open for the system to randomplace at gamestart.

This map was partially balanced by the designer in the sense that he tried to ensure weak areas were nonstarts. But otherwise he left the starts random.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 03:10:19 PM
Philippe, in regard to the mods, I don't know why the Groghammer game would be turning off graphic mods, but now that I think of it I haven't really been paying attention to whether the graphic mods actually seem to be working in-game.

If that's the case, it doesn't matter what you do, the graphics mods will always be turned off, I guess, since I didn't specify when creating the game that any should be on. I didn't expect there to be a consequent negative action by the system (turn off this mod if not turned on), but then again it occurs to me that Llamaserver code may not distinguish between graphic and ability mods. If not, then the only safe thing to do would be to turn off all mods unless specifically allowed by the admin at setup.

I'll poke around and see if I can turn on the listed graphic mods from Llamaserver after the fact.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 03:13:49 PM
Nope, can't setup graphic mods at the server after the fact. Sorry. Will keep that in mind for the future.


In other news, I have set the gameclock back to 48 hours, although that won't go into effect until sometime late Sunday night British time.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 03:18:26 PM
LOLOLOLOL!!! Elitesix was yanking my chain. I accomplished almost nothing.

Oh, I may have gotten rid of some of his troops, but still. I have no particular hope of winning.

Not that I'm giving up.  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 03:42:21 PM
Incidentally, I can't for the life of me figure out how to search magically for water or death sites.

Arcane probing for astral sites; various other things for earth, nature, air and fire sites.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 19, 2013, 03:48:48 PM
Dark Knowledge and I think Voice of Apsu for death and water respectively. They're in the conjuration path I believe.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 19, 2013, 03:56:20 PM
I had no idea you could probe for magic sites outside of looking for them with a magic user dude.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 04:04:53 PM
Thanks, Byrd; that made sense once I read the descriptions, but I never would have thought to look there. (I suppose by the power of deduction I ought to have figured it would be either there or Construction, though!)

Bison, yes there are several ways of doing so magically, but the easiest way involves researching up to level 2 in various magical paths (or level 3 conjuration for water, for some insane reason), then having a mage with two strengths of the correct color (although astral needs only one strength) cast the proper ritual aiming for a province.

I'm setting up a scrying farm in another game; I doubt I'll live long enough in this one for that to ever happen. ;)

In Thaumaturgy, Gnome Lore finds earth; Auspex finds air; Hasuspex finds Nature; and Augury finds fire.
In Evocation, Astral Probing finds astral sites.

Then the other two in Conjuration as Byrdman said. But Voice of Aspu for water is a level 3 ritual.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 19, 2013, 04:19:21 PM
I'm setting up a scrying farm in another game; I doubt I'll live long enough in this one for that to ever happen. ;)

Just a random thought that I am musing...

There is one way to guarantee your nation's survival... but it would involve you making landfall asap and allowing me to puppet your nation by installing a friendly dictator (ie a sub of my selection starts playing your nation)...much like real life, you can only trust those who you put into power :)...or we can fight to the death!!

just a thought!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 19, 2013, 04:21:15 PM
I'm setting up a scrying farm in another game; I doubt I'll live long enough in this one for that to ever happen. ;)
much like real life, you can only trust those who you put into power :)

chortle,

this is going to come back and bite you
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Phobos on April 19, 2013, 04:44:05 PM
There are a few other magic site searching spells.

Bowl of Blood.  For blood magic.

Voice of Tiamat.  You need to cast this if you want to remote search underwater (some of the other site-searching spells can only be cast on land or target land provinces).  This spell finds all elemental magic sites under water (fire, earth, air and water).

Akashic Record.  Very expensive, but reveals all magic sites in a province.  So far as I know, it is the only spell that can reveal Holy magic sites.

There is also a global spell, Strands of Arcane Power, that will occasionally reveal magic sites in friendly dominion, among other things. 

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 19, 2013, 04:50:18 PM
I'm setting up a scrying farm in another game; I doubt I'll live long enough in this one for that to ever happen. ;)
much like real life, you can only trust those who you put into power :)

chortle,

this is going to come back and bite you

haha probably :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 19, 2013, 05:56:17 PM
Yes, well, that would be me out of the game either way.

And Gamin isn't the sort of person (despite being weak) to accept a vassalage position, so not an option for me in this game either.

I'll just have to kamakaze out of the game.  :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 19, 2013, 05:58:57 PM
Putting Dom 3 and mods on my desktop tonight or tomorrow.  I know I'm holding everyone back from taking out your gracious host Jason.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 19, 2013, 09:23:03 PM
I would like to remind anyone who submits their turn last that they can (and should) submit two turns back-to-back.

It's more fun that way for everyone (and shifts the onus onto someone else).


Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 20, 2013, 03:30:45 AM
I would like to remind anyone who submits their turn last that they can (and should) submit two turns back-to-back.

It's more fun that way for everyone (and shifts the onus onto someone else).

What a good idea!
I wish people would take you on this advice!

*cough* Bison *cough*
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 20, 2013, 06:08:57 AM
Repetition is the mother of recollection.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 20, 2013, 06:32:33 AM
All this talk about people taking their turns is really starting to piss me off.  The turn timers are there for a reason.  If someone hasn't submitted their turn by the end of the timer, the turn resolves anyway and you'll get yours to play.

It can be kind of frustrating when everyone's waiting for one person to take their turn, but it's inevitable when people have families, jobs etc and there are so many people playing.  Stop bringing the mood down.

Edit: In fact, I don't think in the three games we have running here that anyone has even failed to submit a turn once yet.  Hardly cause for complaint, is it?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 20, 2013, 06:34:55 AM
PHEW!

I can't believe I managed to hold on for another season (and actually gain a bit)...

I'm far from out of the hole yet, though. Odds are still very good Atlantis will steamroll me sometime during the next few turns. Cash has its own quality, and right now he has it. Whereas, I won't be gaining any more territory anytime real soon.

(This is not exactly a spoiler; Atlantis knows how wiped out I am, and I already had to alert everyone else about that publicly as part of my strategic ploy. Logically, I couldn't possibly expand for the next few turns. Whereas he can go rampaging off in the other direction, pretty much at will, if he hasn't already been doing so already.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 20, 2013, 06:56:33 AM
can you get out of the water?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 20, 2013, 07:03:15 AM
All this talk about people taking their turns is really starting to piss me off.  The turn timers are there for a reason.  If someone hasn't submitted their turn by the end of the timer, the turn resolves anyway and you'll get yours to play.

It can be kind of frustrating when everyone's waiting for one person to take their turn, but it's inevitable when people have families, jobs etc and there are so many people playing.  Stop bringing the mood down.

Edit: In fact, I don't think in the three games we have running here that anyone has even failed to submit a turn once yet.  Hardly cause for complaint, is it?

+1
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 20, 2013, 07:22:58 AM
All this talk about people taking their turns is really starting to piss me off.  The turn timers are there for a reason.  If someone hasn't submitted their turn by the end of the timer, the turn resolves anyway and you'll get yours to play.

It can be kind of frustrating when everyone's waiting for one person to take their turn, but it's inevitable when people have families, jobs etc and there are so many people playing.  Stop bringing the mood down.

Edit: In fact, I don't think in the three games we have running here that anyone has even failed to submit a turn once yet.  Hardly cause for complaint, is it?

+1

i think its because the early phase is getting left behind and its that part where juicy units are recruitable and black candles are on the horizon - its just enthusiasm
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 20, 2013, 08:36:46 AM
Anyone know what happened to Olaf?  What part of the world did he live in?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 20, 2013, 08:55:53 AM
you lost me
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 20, 2013, 09:03:59 AM
For the record:  I am not the last one to submit my turn.  Yay for me!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 20, 2013, 09:31:08 AM
For the record:  I am not the last one to submit my turn.  Yay for me!

lmao - hows it going so far?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 20, 2013, 09:32:34 AM
Anyone know what happened to Olaf?  What part of the world did he live in?

Olaf, unfortunately, died valiantly fighting nasty independents. That's right folks, On turn 5 I managed to kill my god.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 20, 2013, 09:33:33 AM
PHEW!

I can't believe I managed to hold on for another season (and actually gain a bit)...

I'm far from out of the hole yet, though. Odds are still very good Atlantis will steamroll me sometime during the next few turns. Cash has its own quality, and right now he has it. Whereas, I won't be gaining any more territory anytime real soon.

(This is not exactly a spoiler; Atlantis knows how wiped out I am, and I already had to alert everyone else about that publicly as part of my strategic ploy. Logically, I couldn't possibly expand for the next few turns. Whereas he can go rampaging off in the other direction, pretty much at will, if he hasn't already been doing so already.)

The secret weapon was Spirit Curse. He cursed my Kraken Pretender.

As a result, by the end of our first battle, my Kraken was cursed, blind (attack 0 defense 0 precision 0), never healing wounded, lost a tentacle, and had a chest wound.

Damn your spirit curse! :) You bought yourself some time because you took my SCPretender out of the next few fights. Now I just have to wait for recuperation!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 20, 2013, 09:42:21 AM
Anyone know what happened to Olaf?  What part of the world did he live in?

Olaf, unfortunately, died valiantly fighting nasty independents. That's right folks, On turn 5 I managed to kill my god.

oh dear - snigger

how do you get him back?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 20, 2013, 09:44:46 AM
Anyone know what happened to Olaf?  What part of the world did he live in?

Olaf, unfortunately, died valiantly fighting nasty independents. That's right folks, On turn 5 I managed to kill my god.

oh dear - snigger

how do you get him back?

I think it's 50-60 cumulative turns of priest levels calling. (meaning roughly 20 H3 priests calling god for 1 turn, or 60 H1 priests). In my tests it was closer to 50, but there seemed to be a random element.

It's not too bad to do in early mid-game, just get like 5-6 H2 Priests to call god and he will appear in about half a year. With -1 Magic Levels of course.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 20, 2013, 11:12:29 AM
At this point I'm not really worried about that. To be honest, he didn't really play too huge a role in my plans anyway (not that I really have much of a plan). What bothers me is now my expansion is basically halted for the next 3 turns while I rebuild my army.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 20, 2013, 11:13:48 AM
Anyone know what happened to Olaf?  What part of the world did he live in?

Olaf, unfortunately, died valiantly fighting nasty independents. That's right folks, On turn 5 I managed to kill my god.

Manual says you can get your god back with 40 points into "call god".
lvl 1 priest = 1 pt.
lvl 3 priest = 3 points.

P.s - Hope you are my neighbor!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 20, 2013, 11:22:50 AM
oh dear - its going to get messy
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 20, 2013, 01:03:57 PM
Oops. I said Northwest corner as well,....I am in the NORTHEAST corner,....all alone. However,.....being my first mp game,....I had to change my strategy,..so my first turn was basically wasted,...and too many of the territories around me have cavalry, so each fight I lose more of my fodder units than I want.

 So, no need to worry about me at this point.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Beelzeboss on April 20, 2013, 01:16:10 PM
All is well in Pythium so far :). My god is still asleep but expanding is going well.
I also found a magic site that gives me 3 death gems a turn so if anyone wants these, I'm willing to trade them.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 20, 2013, 01:19:17 PM
Well since we're talking strategy here....

My strategy of not knowing what the hell I'm doing seems to be playing out quit nicely.  I don't think I've made any major decisions to upset this strategy yet.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 20, 2013, 01:23:34 PM
Haha, that made me laugh Bison!

Things are going well here.  Arcoscephale's troops are decidedly average, but our elephants do very well against disorganised independents.  Expansion is not going to be a problem.

I think I'm about to meet one of you guys though!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 20, 2013, 01:25:24 PM
Well I hope it's not me.  I don't like having to scrape elephant crap off my shoes as I do victory laps around the battlefield.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on April 20, 2013, 01:33:25 PM
OK I seem to get the wooden spoon for being the last to submit on this occasion.Apologies I was not expecting a turn today as i thought people were away. I guess I get the bonus 2 turns tonight. Just got in and starting my turn should be submitted in the next hour
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 20, 2013, 01:36:53 PM
Yeah, the talk about turns getting done was started by me. I made a mistake.....I saw the game below this one listed as a slow game,....with turn deadline being 48 hours. For some reason I got it in my head that since this wasn't listed as a slow game, it would be 24 hours/per turn. BUT it says plainly in this games description that its 48 hours per turn.

So that's my fault,...and for that I apologize.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 20, 2013, 01:37:59 PM
Well I hope it's not me.  I don't like having to scrape elephant crap off my shoes as I do victory laps around the battlefield.

Your death shall be swift and, indeed, smelly!

OK I seem to get the wooden spoon for being the last to submit on this occasion.Apologies I was not expecting a turn today as i thought people were away. I guess I get the bonus 2 turns tonight. Just got in and starting my turn should be submitted in the next hour

No worries mate, you didn't hit the timer.  How's your game going?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 20, 2013, 01:42:04 PM
I have hairy elephants, which I assume are hairy do to genetics and not...uh...other more personal reasons....
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 20, 2013, 01:51:51 PM
I have hairy elephants, which I assume are hairy do to genetics and not...uh...other more personal reasons....

theyre Polish?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 20, 2013, 01:54:33 PM
I have hairy elephants, which I assume are hairy do to genetics and not...uh...other more personal reasons....

theyre Polish?

Or ferocious masterbaters.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 20, 2013, 01:57:20 PM
well, with that trunk, they are one of the few animals that can walk and do that at the same time.............so not surprising.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 20, 2013, 02:03:56 PM
Yeah, the talk about turns getting done was started by me. I made a mistake.....I saw the game below this one listed as a slow game,....with turn deadline being 48 hours. For some reason I got it in my head that since this wasn't listed as a slow game, it would be 24 hours/per turn. BUT it says plainly in this games description that its 48 hours per turn.

So that's my fault,...and for that I apologize.

Heh, that would explain it! :) Thanks ScottWAR!

I have hairy elephants, which I assume are hairy do to genetics and not...uh...other more personal reasons....

I have a hairy elephant!  Would you like to see it?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on April 20, 2013, 02:28:09 PM
Ok submitted.

Things are not going too bad, the independants require a bit of respect. Wandered to one area thinking that a few woodsmen would not be too difficult too overcome and did not notice the 6 dark vines with 125 HP each. Actually they were not too bad but the 5 supporting druids deaded the dead. Apart from one other similar incident things are reasonable although all my troops seem to have ended up in the wrong places.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 20, 2013, 03:06:10 PM
well, with that trunk, they are one of the few animals that can walk and do that at the same time.............so not surprising.

Not kidding when I say that they don't need their trunk for that purpose... (the "fifth leg" of elephants is legendary...)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 20, 2013, 03:13:46 PM
6 dark vines with 125 HP each

in an indy province? holy crap - im just reading about summoning those - its quite away off!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 20, 2013, 03:20:05 PM
can you get out of the water?

Out of the water?! I can't even get out of my own fortress!  >:( For a supposedly crippled Kraken, he's suddenly back the next turn after having been driven out, kicking the ass of my provincial defense (with lobsters etc.)

Let's see if I can't find some way to kill him off this turn, since he keeps begging for me to kill him...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 20, 2013, 04:17:41 PM
Give em hell Jason!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 20, 2013, 04:41:56 PM
Anyone know what happened to Olaf?  What part of the world did he live in?

Olaf, unfortunately, died valiantly fighting nasty independents. That's right folks, On turn 5 I managed to kill my god.

Machaka state secrets
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 20, 2013, 04:52:57 PM
Well thanks for letting me know. I'll readjust my army movements.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 20, 2013, 05:44:41 PM
Anyone know what happened to Olaf?  What part of the world did he live in?

Olaf, unfortunately, died valiantly fighting nasty independents. That's right folks, On turn 5 I managed to kill my god.

Machaka state secrets!!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 21, 2013, 02:47:10 PM
Anti-climatic :/
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 21, 2013, 03:05:21 PM
And kind of weird. Atlantis routed but you must have assigned troops to move in. (Although I noticed you didn't risk your pretender this time.  :P But no real reason to do so either.  :D)

Your Tritons zerg-rushed my pretender before he finished his setup script, although he mowed down several before dying toward the end of the fight. Apparently after Atlantis retreated, too.

So it ends, I'm the first to go out. :( Well, maybe I can take over someone else's position if they have to quit. With literally no troops and no way to gain troops, and with my pretender dead, I've set the AI to take over the final defense of the castle.


A well-played Supercombatant rush by Atlantis sets him up to utterly dominate the seas. Be warned, all ye along the coast -- be very a-warned!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 21, 2013, 03:07:20 PM
In general, what should one do with an indy province that they have acquired?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 21, 2013, 03:13:45 PM
In general, what should one do with an indy province that they have acquired?

Not much, unless it has something especially of value like:
(1) good troops or commanders to recruit (recruit em, or maybe build a fort to get more)
(2) gem sites (gem site tend to cluster, so search in other magic paths there)
(3) high resources (might be a good location for a fort, b/c forts double resources and let you produce your national troops)
(4) in a strategic location, then you may want to increase the province defense more than other places, or place a fort/lab and recruit more troops to defend.
(5) have different scales even under your dominion (though scales change slowly under your dominion) - usually this means there is a hidden magic site affecting the scales. You can google to find the correlations, but growth = nature, cold = water (I think), heat = fire, order = earth, death = death, astral = magic (I think), blood = unrest, not sure on the others offhand

Always check the indie for scouts and mages that have magic paths outside your nation - the latter are gold, the former is important for intel.

Also, indie commanders are very useful, because you are limited to recruiting one commander out of your forts at a time, and usually you want them dedicated to armies or research. If you can use indie commanders for your armies, your forts can more specialize on pumping out your nation's researchers.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 21, 2013, 03:16:21 PM
The turn clock seems to have advanced but the Llama server hasn't sent me the next turn e-mail  yet.

I've checked my spam filter and there's nothing in it.


Is there a way of checking to see if something was sent out to me?  Or is there a way to resend it?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 21, 2013, 03:18:09 PM
The turn clock seems to have advanced but the Llama server hasn't sent me the next turn e-mail  yet.

I've checked my spam filter and there's nothing in it.


Is there a way of checking to see if something was sent out to me?  Or is there a way to resend it?

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Groghammer
Bottom of page: "request turn resend"
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 21, 2013, 03:20:50 PM
Just discovered I don't know how to read.

Pressing re-send now.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 21, 2013, 04:09:57 PM
In general, what should one do with an indy province that they have acquired?

Not much, unless it has something especially of value like:
(1) good troops or commanders to recruit (recruit em, or maybe build a fort to get more)
(2) gem sites (gem site tend to cluster, so search in other magic paths there)
(3) high resources (might be a good location for a fort, b/c forts double resources and let you produce your national troops)
(4) in a strategic location, then you may want to increase the province defense more than other places, or place a fort/lab and recruit more troops to defend.
(5) have different scales even under your dominion (though scales change slowly under your dominion) - usually this means there is a hidden magic site affecting the scales. You can google to find the correlations, but growth = nature, cold = water (I think), heat = fire, order = earth, death = death, astral = magic (I think), blood = unrest, not sure on the others offhand

Always check the indie for scouts and mages that have magic paths outside your nation - the latter are gold, the former is important for intel.

Also, indie commanders are very useful, because you are limited to recruiting one commander out of your forts at a time, and usually you want them dedicated to armies or research. If you can use indie commanders for your armies, your forts can more specialize on pumping out your nation's researchers.

unless the main ethos of your forces is a poisonous attack - then they'll more than likely die - like mine did - twice!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on April 21, 2013, 04:20:11 PM
In general, what should one do with an indy province that they have acquired?

Not much, unless it has something especially of value like:
(5) have different scales even under your dominion (though scales change slowly under your dominion) - usually this means there is a hidden magic site affecting the scales. You can google to find the correlations, but growth = nature, cold = water (I think), heat = fire, order = earth, death = death, astral = magic (I think), blood = unrest, not sure on the others offhand


Regarding this, a very useful post detailing what sites you can expect to find based on province information:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39973 (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=39973)

Of course, this info doesn't replace normal/ritual site searching. But when you see abnormal scales or unrest in a province, or your units getting diseased there, you know what to expect.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 21, 2013, 05:32:43 PM
It's certainly important information so as not to waste time and gems on searching for something else there (until later anyway--not every magical site creates scale disturbances or other effects like that.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 22, 2013, 10:09:05 AM
Has anyone else started bumping heads and going to war? There are a few close capitals on the map...and 2/3s through the first year.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 22, 2013, 10:11:29 AM
I have not yet ran into another players army.  Just a matter of time I suspect.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: PsiSoldier on April 22, 2013, 10:26:11 AM
Eriu and R'lyhe are neighbors but peaceful relations have been established so we are not at war. On the other hand it will be interesting if R'lyhe bumps into the remaining water nations  SC pretender. Will be fun to see how he fairs being mindblasted 30 or 50 times per turn
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 22, 2013, 10:59:47 AM
Even more interesting considering your bodies of water are separated by a couple of land territories at the closest point. ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 22, 2013, 11:18:18 AM
I have not yet ran into another players army.  Just a matter of time I suspect.

Same here but I'm not complaining.  I need more time to setup operations and grab some more land.   8)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 22, 2013, 11:21:14 AM
Eriu and R'lyhe are neighbors but peaceful relations have been established so we are not at war. On the other hand it will be interesting if R'lyhe bumps into the remaining water nations  SC pretender. Will be fun to see how he fairs being mindblasted 30 or 50 times per turn

No matter what they say, don't let R'lyeth on the land...don't do it...can't let them make landfall....you were warned.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 22, 2013, 04:02:25 PM
Well I got repelled by some indies.  Good lord this is going to a difficult slog.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 22, 2013, 05:24:34 PM
Well I got repelled by some indies.  Good lord this is going to a difficult slog.

Tell me about it...  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 22, 2013, 05:28:42 PM
Its a good thing I am all alone, I am expanding at a snails pace compared to how it sounds like everyone else is......or at least trying to.
Also,...the independents seem to be stronger than I am accustomed to in single player. They are killing more of my troops than I expect.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 22, 2013, 05:39:38 PM
theyre at level 7, not the usual 5 - to test our manliness

course been eaten by giant spiders doesnt matter whether youre level 5 or level 7, just as tasty
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on April 22, 2013, 11:51:27 PM
I've meet 2 other player so far and like me they have both seem to be preoccupied with trying to fight indies than other player nations.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 23, 2013, 01:00:32 AM
Hopefully this is a good thing - reach out with some nap3s and expand in style
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 23, 2013, 03:37:13 AM
Giant spiders?

I dont think i ever saw such a thing in Domi3...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 23, 2013, 05:13:40 AM
machaka coming at ya oga
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: PsiSoldier on April 23, 2013, 07:19:44 AM
Yeah expansion in this game seems to be a lot more difficult than normal even for 7 Indy strength. I am surrounded by Indy provinces with 120 troop strength. I have yet to loose any important troops of my own but the going is slow to be sure that I do not because that could devastate me if it did happen at this point.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 23, 2013, 08:38:53 AM
Maybe 6 is the sweet spot for indie strength?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 23, 2013, 09:18:16 AM
I like 7, slows the game down somewhat
Dosent let early rushers take 2-3 Indy provinces at a time.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 23, 2013, 09:56:01 AM
Yes, I like 7 for independant strength as well, and am wondering how high that number can go before things get too glacial.

What I like about 7 is that unless you have a really strong attack force you can't just mindlessly throw your forces into a province without looking.  And when you do send them in, you have to ask yourself if you've done the right thing or are doing it in the right way.  I'm getting a kick out of the little flutter of uncertainty.

I guess the question really comes down to this: do you want expansion to be really hard, really easy, or somewhere in between.  Right now I'm leaning towards really hard, even though it slows the game down.

All the more reason to send turns in quickly to get past the expansion phase.

None of this applies of course to people with armies of giant spiders.  They can expand quickly no matter what.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 23, 2013, 10:48:14 AM
I've meet 2 other player so far and like me they have both seem to be preoccupied with trying to fight indies than other player nations.

It might well take less gold/resources troop wise to conquer your neighbor nations than it will to conquer more indy 7 provinces, especially if your borders have already met.

If there are easy indies around and space to go around other nations (as in this map), a super early rush of your neighbor is actually better to do strategically, since you're losing out less compared to other nations which will conquer those indie 7 provinces slowly. By the time you're done with the war, yes you probably will have less provinces than someone who has been conquering indie 7 provinces in the meantime, but not by much, and your gold and gem income from the losing nations capital should make you come out ahead.

I don't think indie 7 really changes the rushing equation too much, but it does actually slow down the arrival of midgame (by increasing the length of the early game), and punish those nations that are weaker on the expansion that didn't explicitly plan for hardcore indies by building in a good SC Pretender or Bless (if its troops could use a good bless).

That being said, indie 7 hasn't really slowed down my Kraken, so I'm happy :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 23, 2013, 10:56:24 AM
And sometimes rushing isn't so clean even if you win the war...such as in my other game with undercovergeek, he's basically out of the game, but with EA Pangaea's freespawns (automatically created units, no matter what even if the capital is under siege) are making it difficult to actually capture his capital (He has one province remaining, next turn will likely have 0 except his siege capital, has had a sub 200 income for a while)..

He has basically 488 army strength in his capital, and gains roughly +40 army strength a turn. He could try and break siege, but he'd lose versus my demons. In sieges, you basically have to have more offensive sieging power than defensive sieging power (destruction versus repair - forumla per unit is the strength of the unit squared / 100) - I don't have enough sieging power so his walls are unharmed. So he just prolongs my suffering :)

I probably won't conquer his capital at least for a year, once disease has killed off most of the occupants, and my temples have converted most of his province.

I think MA Pangaea has the same thing going. Be sure to have a plan!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 23, 2013, 11:30:44 AM
The level 7 thingy that you all keep talking about means nothing to me.  Nor does it prevent me from mindlessly through wave after wave of my meager armies against them!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 23, 2013, 11:39:22 AM
I have a few questions regarding Gem use and magic on the battlefield. 

1. Does a magic user need to have gems in his personal inventory in order to cast battle spells?  (I'm assuming the magic user has the appropriate magic path and level required to cast the battle spell)
2. Are gems consumed on a per round/battle battle magic cast or do they stay in the magic users inventory forever?
3. Maybe related to question 2 but here goes: Why is it that sometimes after a battle my magic user does not have a gem in his inventory that he had prior to the battle?  I find that I'm constantly sending runners from my capital to the front who brings in gems to supply the frontline magic users.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 23, 2013, 12:04:17 PM
I have a few questions regarding Gem use and magic on the battlefield. 

1. Does a magic user need to have gems in his personal inventory in order to cast battle spells?  (I'm assuming the magic user has the appropriate magic path and level required to cast the battle spell)

Only if the spell requires gems. Also recognize that there are rituals (non-combat spells) and combat spells; sometimes it easy to mix up the two. You also correct that having the magic path level is required.

However, having gems for gemless spells or having more gems than you need even for gemmed spells has an advantage: the AI will occasionally use extra gems to boost the effectiveness of a spell that doesn't require gems - basically my understanding is 1 gem = 1 higher magic level for that spell.

Some spells are more effective with higher spell levels (look for "+" and "++" in spell descriptions), and all spells cost less fatigue at higher levels (fatigue formula is true spell fatigue cost = spell fatigue / (actual magic level / required magic level). So if you have a spell that requires 2 air and uses 100 fatigue, at 3 air it uses 66.7 fatigue (100/ (3/2))

Quote
2. Are gems consumed on a per round/battle battle magic cast or do they stay in the magic users inventory forever?

Gems are consumed when the spell is cast.

Quote
3. Maybe related to question 2 but here goes: Why is it that sometimes after a battle my magic user does not have a gem in his inventory that he had prior to the battle?  I find that I'm constantly sending runners from my capital to the front who brings in gems to supply the frontline magic users.

It probably has to do with the effect of boosting magic levels that the AI does on occasion in 1. The AI doesn't use gems in trivial battles (regardless of scripting), but don't rely on that. If you have gems on your casters and you want to conserve them, you need to script them to do nothing (holdx5 stay behind troops) until a turn comes where you think you need to unleash them (ie, shadow blast x5, cast spells, etc)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 23, 2013, 12:04:55 PM
The level 7 thingy that you all keep talking about means nothing to me.  Nor does it prevent me from mindlessly through wave after wave of my meager armies against them!

in the game options at the start that jason has set up - there is an 'indy strength' meter that defaults to 5 and usually gets left there and consequently some nations go thru them like a knife thru butter but jasons upped their strength to 7 - i presume out of 10 and theyre a bit tougher and more numerous
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 23, 2013, 12:09:58 PM
I have a few questions regarding Gem use and magic on the battlefield. 

1. Does a magic user need to have gems in his personal inventory in order to cast battle spells?  (I'm assuming the magic user has the appropriate magic path and level required to cast the battle spell)
2. Are gems consumed on a per round/battle battle magic cast or do they stay in the magic users inventory forever?
3. Maybe related to question 2 but here goes: Why is it that sometimes after a battle my magic user does not have a gem in his inventory that he had prior to the battle?  I find that I'm constantly sending runners from my capital to the front who brings in gems to supply the frontline magic users.

I think, as a good rule of thumb, any battle spell that has a battlefield wide effect (such fire arrows, that gives all your archers enchanted flaming arrows) requires a gem to cast. Also, I think most of the battlefield summons (like summon earth elemental) requires a gem to cast. Of course, those are different from the ritual spells that permanently summons a creature into your army, but is cast outside of battle.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 23, 2013, 12:11:55 PM
my understanding also was even for a gemless spell, if the caster had a gem he could use that instead and not suffer any fatigue
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 23, 2013, 01:25:36 PM
I see.  So I have to pay attention what my magic users are capable of casting on the battle field according to my tech level in a particular school of magic.  Using ritual spells outside of battles is self explanatory.  The gems come out of your national treasury but the magic user must be in a province with a lab.

After checking the manual, I see that none of the battlefield spells require gems at least it doesn't indicate gems are needed.  I'll have to check the wikis out there to verify. 

Having the correct gems in the magic users inventory helps him cast the spells more forcefully and perhaps save him from getting tired.  Meaning he can cast something like smite multiple times per battle because he won't get as tired as he would without the aid of extra gems in the right path.  I think I get it now.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 23, 2013, 01:42:12 PM
After checking the manual, I see that none of the battlefield spells require gems at least it doesn't indicate gems are needed.  I'll have to check the wikis out there to verify. 

There are quite battlefield spells that require gems. Off the top of my head, most of the low level combat summons require gems,  Earthquake (Evocation 5, Earth 3, requires 3 earth gems). There are definitely quite a few out there. All of the really good ones :) They are listed in game - you don't have to have them researched - just go your laboratory and start clicking !

Also, fatigue from spellcasting also comes from base encumbrance. That is not reduced by gems. I say this because I believe smite costs zero faitgue, but adds fatigue through spellcasting encumbrance.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 23, 2013, 01:46:18 PM
I see.  So I have to pay attention what my magic users are capable of casting on the battle field according to my tech level in a particular school of magic.  Using ritual spells outside of battles is self explanatory.  The gems come out of your national treasury but the magic user must be in a province with a lab.

After checking the manual, I see that none of the battlefield spells require gems at least it doesn't indicate gems are needed.  I'll have to check the wikis out there to verify. 

Having the correct gems in the magic users inventory helps him cast the spells more forcefully and perhaps save him from getting tired.  Meaning he can cast something like smite multiple times per battle because he won't get as tired as he would without the aid of extra gems in the right path.  I think I get it now.

youve got it - this is why multiple labs come in useful across the map
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 23, 2013, 02:02:26 PM
I like 7, slows the game down somewhat
Dosent let early rushers take 2-3 Indy provinces at a time.

In some cases. ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 23, 2013, 02:09:24 PM
However, having gems for gemless spells or having more gems than you need even for gemmed spells has an advantage: the AI will occasionally use extra gems to boost the effectiveness of a spell that doesn't require gems - basically my understanding is 1 gem = 1 higher magic level for that spell.

Some spells are more effective with higher spell levels (look for "+" and "++" in spell descriptions), and all spells cost less fatigue at higher levels (fatigue formula is true spell fatigue cost = spell fatigue / (actual magic level / required magic level). So if you have a spell that requires 2 air and uses 100 fatigue, at 3 air it uses 66.7 fatigue (100/ (3/2))

In effect, using a gem per spell level (above stated requirements) basically eliminates spellcasting fatigue, so the AI will tend to use them wisely: a little fatigue (i.e. in trivial fights), no problem, as fatigue increases, gems will be burned.

Note that "stay behind troops" still involves autocasting spells, just with a positioning cue. So gems (and/or blood) can still be burned that way, once the order goes into effect.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 23, 2013, 02:12:54 PM
The level 7 thingy that you all keep talking about means nothing to me.  Nor does it prevent me from mindlessly through wave after wave of my meager armies against them!

in the game options at the start that jason has set up - there is an 'indy strength' meter that defaults to 5 and usually gets left there and consequently some nations go thru them like a knife thru butter but jasons upped their strength to 7 - i presume out of 10 and theyre a bit tougher and more numerous

All true.

I'm somewhat dubious when I see a report of 120 indies, unless (a) I've got a scout in territory; (b) I've got a faction that scries in my dominion; (c) I'm using scout spells; or (d) the territory is large and/or has a large income (which tend to go hand in hand for obvious reasons). In the latter case while that isn't verification, it does in my experience mean the number is plausible.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Phobos on April 23, 2013, 03:57:15 PM
Troop numbers shown in a province are 50%-200% of the actual number.  This means there could be half as many, to twice as many as indicated.

Scouts and scrying seem to provide more accurate figures, as well as the potential for details like the name of a commander in the province.

Independant provinces typically do not modify troop numbers, but on occasion, they will.  This could be due to random events (independant attacks like barbarian hordes do not attack independant provinces, they reinforce them) or magical items on one of the commanders in the province. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 23, 2013, 06:53:58 PM
I'm struggling just to expand beyond my initial province.  Have mercy on me neighbors!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 23, 2013, 07:00:42 PM
I'm struggling just to expand beyond my initial province.  Have mercy on me neighbors!

You seem like you'd be good at bluffing :)  ::)  8)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 24, 2013, 01:15:15 AM
I'm struggling just to expand beyond my initial province.  Have mercy on me neighbors!

You seem like you'd be good at bluffing :)  ::)  8)

+1

its a shame the score graphs are off
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 24, 2013, 07:36:54 AM
I noticed that too about the scoregraphs.  Maybe it's better this way since we all will have to do our info gathering the old fashioned way. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 24, 2013, 07:55:50 AM
Fog of war is always good.

And more manly.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 24, 2013, 08:15:39 AM
Fog of war is always good.

And more manly.

man mist
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 24, 2013, 08:53:01 AM
Fog of war is always good.

And more manly.

That was my justification for leaving the graphs off in the initial gamepost, yep. :)

]dammit I'm still relevant to this thread somehowwwww....
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 24, 2013, 08:57:51 AM
You're always relevant in our hearts  ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 24, 2013, 12:09:11 PM
I'm struggling just to expand beyond my initial province.  Have mercy on me neighbors!

You seem like you'd be good at bluffing :)  ::)  8)

Wait, is Bison hustling us?  Could be...he's a notoriously sneaky bastard!

Everyone target Bison!!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 24, 2013, 01:00:47 PM
I will crush you!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 24, 2013, 04:56:54 PM
All your base are belong to me anyway. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 24, 2013, 11:40:57 PM
Are you still in this one, Jason?  Well done! :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 25, 2013, 02:05:31 AM
Are you still in this one, Jason?  Well done! :D

bwahahahahahahahahaha!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 25, 2013, 06:39:53 AM
Doesn't matter if I'm in this one or not. I'm the admin. All your bases belong to me.

I keep telling myself this is important.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 25, 2013, 08:20:28 AM
I catagorically deny everything.   

Signed Huckleberry
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 25, 2013, 02:28:02 PM
So I hope I don't hold anyone back too terribly but I will have time for a turn this evening and then it's early to bed and then up at 5 to caravan out to the US/Mexican border to hike 20 miles North to Lake Morena where I will be spending that night and the next.  On Sunday morning we pack up and head back to civilization.

I am really enjoying this particular game, as it is my first Dom game but I wouldn't actually mind if I missed a turn because I am sure that whatever the AI chooses would be better than anything I choose, but all the same I am learning quite a bit as I inch forward into the provinces surrounding my capital.  Anyway, this is just a heads up for the weekend.  I am fine with however Jason wants to handle it.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 25, 2013, 02:30:36 PM
Sounds like a good hiking and camping trip.   Have fun!   I'm going bass fishing myself on Saturday.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 25, 2013, 02:32:12 PM
I am really enjoying this particular game, as it is my first Dom game but I wouldn't actually mind if I missed a turn because I am sure that whatever the AI chooses would be better than anything I choose,

The AI won't do anything for you; if you miss a turn, it processes as if you hadn't given any orders at all.  The AI will only act for you if you explicitly tell it to take over, but that's permanent and will put you out of the game.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 25, 2013, 02:32:58 PM
So I hope I don't hold anyone back too terribly but I will have time for a turn this evening and then it's early to bed and then up at 5 to caravan out to the US/Mexican border to hike 20 miles North to Lake Morena where I will be spending that night and the next.  On Sunday morning we pack up and head back to civilization.

I am really enjoying this particular game, as it is my first Dom game but I wouldn't actually mind if I missed a turn because I am sure that whatever the AI chooses would be better than anything I choose, but all the same I am learning quite a bit as I inch forward into the provinces surrounding my capital.  Anyway, this is just a heads up for the weekend.  I am fine with however Jason wants to handle it.

Its best to move the limit Claes - the AI wont do anything for you, youll research what you were researching, build what you were building but it wont move any troops or proavtively change your game - it is literally as if you just received the turn and clicked end turn again and sent it in
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 25, 2013, 02:33:26 PM
I am really enjoying this particular game, as it is my first Dom game but I wouldn't actually mind if I missed a turn because I am sure that whatever the AI chooses would be better than anything I choose,

The AI won't do anything for you; if you miss a turn, it processes as if you hadn't given any orders at all.  The AI will only act for you if you explicitly tell it to take over, but that's permanent and will put you out of the game.

46 seconds!!!!!

dom ninja
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 25, 2013, 03:12:17 PM
Its getting warm outside, at least where I live,...so I would expect people to be getting out and enjoying it. Have fun and be safe.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 25, 2013, 03:34:02 PM
Its getting warm outside, at least where I live,...so I would expect people to be getting out and enjoying it. Have fun and be safe.

(http://www.ragetrolling.com/var/albums/Go%20play%20outside.jpg?m=1337199899)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 25, 2013, 03:57:34 PM
I live in Southern CA and it is going to be quite warm.  My biggest consideration is water, and this year I am bringing much more than last time.  Unfortunately water is the heaviest thing that you carry.  But come the end of the 20 miles hiking through the desert with only a couple of gallons of water you feel it.  I was wiping salt crystals off of my brow last time and my muscles were aching.  So I am bringing and drinking as much as I can this time.  Thanks for all of the good wishes.  I'll only really be gone Fri and Sat and I should be back Sun afternoon barring catastrophe.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 25, 2013, 04:36:45 PM
Fog of war is always good.

And more manly.

That was my justification for leaving the graphs off in the initial gamepost, yep. :)

]dammit I'm still relevant to this thread somehowwwww....

As of turn 12, Oceania is no more :(.

However, if we find a necromancer and if you wish it, we will resurrect the great Gamin to serve in undeath, as he did in life, with great valor and honor (we left renaming on, right?).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 25, 2013, 04:39:29 PM
Huh...well there's a reason why Aquaman isn't a major super hero star with his own movies.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 25, 2013, 08:47:30 PM
Yes, renaming is on, but for some reason I've never been able to rename heroes in my other two games (despite renaming supposedly being on there, too). Let me know how that turns out.

I'll bump the gameclock up to late Monday night Pacific Standard time (96 hours) in case Claes isn't able to get back in time to do a turn Sunday night feasibly (and then of course work Monday).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 25, 2013, 08:58:06 PM
I was able to rename my commanders as well as my prophet but I haven't tried to rename my pretender.  I love having rename on by the way.   ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 25, 2013, 09:31:18 PM
I know once you enter the Hall of Fame you cannot rename.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Myrmidon on April 26, 2013, 06:09:04 AM
I know once you enter the Hall of Fame you cannot rename.

Aha!!  Very insightful!  I need to get on with re-naming my prophets sooner rather than later.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 26, 2013, 06:10:29 AM
I know once you enter the Hall of Fame you cannot rename.

Aha!!  Very insightful!  I need to get on with re-naming my prophets sooner rather than later.

Don't think you CAN rename your prophet to begin with...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 26, 2013, 07:16:08 AM
^You might be right about renaming prophets.  I renamed the commander before I made him a prophet.  Forgot to mention that.   ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 26, 2013, 07:37:05 AM
If I understand what's happening, we'll probably have a turn sent to us today in about nine or ten hours, and then nothing until very late on Sunday (or Monday morning if you live in the UK).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 26, 2013, 09:44:06 AM
From http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Groghammer as of Last updated at 15:43 GMT on Friday April 26th
Current time: 15:43 GMT

Game: Groghammer
Turn number 12
Next turn due: 22:00 GMT on Saturday April 27th
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 26, 2013, 02:23:13 PM
I honestly have no idea sometimes what the timeclock code does...

I tried to bump it to late Monday night Pacific time, but that apparently didn't work (I'm glad someone noticed and posted!) -- so I've sent in another attempt at bumping forward the time, but it only bumped forward to sometime late Sunday night. Whatever. I hope that'll be sufficient.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 26, 2013, 02:42:45 PM
If I understand what's happening (and I probably don't) I think the timer is set to go off in the early evening on Sunday, Pacific Time.

Not a problem if you're in the UK or the East Coast of the US, but might be a little tight if you're coming back from a camping trip on the West Coast.

What would happen if you took another shot at extending the time clock on Saturday (i.e. try again tomorrow)?  Maybe it would give you an extra 24 hours.

And would it be useful for the adminstrator to have a list of what time zone we are all in?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on April 26, 2013, 03:07:39 PM
Well,...his turn is in,...so you might want to let the turn change tomorrow as scheduled. No point changing the timer till Monday for someone who has their turn in already..............
After the turn changes then set it for Monday night or Tuesday some time.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 26, 2013, 04:40:56 PM
Well,...his turn is in,...so you might want to let the turn change tomorrow as scheduled. No point changing the timer till Monday for someone who has their turn in already..............
After the turn changes then set it for Monday night or Tuesday some time.

Agreed. But it wouldn't be the end of the world if it doesn't change, because the turn will autohost if everyone submits.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 26, 2013, 05:38:29 PM
Exactly. Besides which I already did it and the server doesn't let me take it back. ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 27, 2013, 04:22:34 AM
dunno if thats how its supposed to work - but all the turns are in and the server's reset to waiting for turns from everyone - but i dont think it sent out any notifications - i asked for a turn resend which subsequently sent turn 13 which i believe is the next one - i wont process or send it in as i dont know what the heinous consequences are without Jasons nod of approval
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on April 27, 2013, 04:31:02 AM
Hello guys!
In despite of the power of Agartha, I'm going in Holidays from tomorrow to the 5 may.
I may be able to play turns, but it's not sure.

Can you adjust time on llamaserver please, and leave quickhost on?

Sorry for this  :-[ .

By the way, I'd like to congratulate everyone for such a fast rythm: we're often using the quickhost, whereas there is a lot of players!

RIP Gamin, I'll avenge you!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 27, 2013, 09:51:58 AM
U'geek, sometimes the server gets flustered and forgets to send out turns. It's perfectly safe to request a turn resend and then to play what you receive. Sometimes when the server is laggy and I request a turn resend, I get that AND the original turn! -- either one is fine to work from, just delete the other.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 27, 2013, 09:54:03 AM
Vlam, when you can, drop a post or email or pmail about which time zone you're in, and I'll try to adjust the clock accordingly. Right now it's set for sometime late Sunday night British time I think, but you're going to need another week.

Of course that's just a safety net; if you manage to send in turns while on wifi, the games will process anyway.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 27, 2013, 10:53:42 AM
Vlam, when you can, drop a post or email or pmail about which time zone you're in, and I'll try to adjust the clock accordingly. Right now it's set for sometime late Sunday night British time I think, but you're going to need another week.

Of course that's just a safety net; if you manage to send in turns while on wifi, the games will process anyway.

i think vlams french so hes GMT +1 but then again he might be living in Australia!!

youre right on the turns - i got the resend 3 hours before the official turn
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on April 27, 2013, 12:59:32 PM
Nice one undercovergeek!
Indeed, I'm french. But anyway, I love english's communities ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 29, 2013, 12:11:36 PM
When does Bison get back again? Just so I know when to check the game status again :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on April 29, 2013, 12:22:54 PM
I'm not anywhere.  I just return a turn last evening.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 29, 2013, 01:05:32 PM
Never mind I was confused :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 29, 2013, 01:43:05 PM
I'll bump the gameclock up to late Monday night Pacific Standard time (96 hours) in case Claes isn't able to get back in time to do a turn Sunday night feasibly (and then of course work Monday).

Thanks again for your consideration.  I have returned worse for wear and dehydration, but I had a lovely 20 mile hike.  I had originally planned on hiking with my sister but she couldn't get off of work.  So I spent the first 5 miles with Socrates, and the next 5 with Seneca.  I spent the last 10 with Epicurus, but then he is that kind of philosopher.

Turn sent.  Thanks again.  Back to my ibuprofen.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on April 29, 2013, 02:15:01 PM
Glad you're back safe and sound!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 29, 2013, 03:32:08 PM
Jason, we're doing simple trades as binding right? (as in, in the rare case a player "cheats" another, a simple trade exchange deal will be enforced outside of the game by the moderator - my understanding that this is the practice on desura). If not, it's not the end of the world, but it would be nice!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A messenger arrives from Atlantis.

"To any nation with nature gems that wishes to gain more water gems, Azag, God of Gods, Patron of Languages, the Unforgiving God, the Guide of Heroes, offers the following exchange:

An exchange of 30 of Atlantis's Water Gems for 30 Nature Gems. We are not interested in any trades exchanges of less than 20 water gems for 20 nature gems."


Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 29, 2013, 03:33:03 PM
So I spent the first 5 miles with Socrates, and the next 5 with Seneca.  I spent the last 10 with Epicurus, but then he is that kind of philosopher.

Ten miles with Lucretius could be amusing -- Aeneadum genetrix is pretty catchy and has a good beat.  Ten miles with Epicurus would be a hard slog (too many cryptic footnotes).  Plato was a better writer than Socrates (Socrates really didn't write much and the first sentence of Plato's Republic may be the most perfect piece of introductry prose  in the Greek language).  As for Seneca, you've gotta love somebody who does a piece about the ruler of the known world turning into a pumpkin.

So maybe you should have spent more time with Seneca (even though Lucretius is a better writer).

Just go easy on the mushrooms.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 29, 2013, 03:51:26 PM
So I spent the first 5 miles with Socrates, and the next 5 with Seneca.  I spent the last 10 with Epicurus, but then he is that kind of philosopher.

Ten miles with Lucretius could be amusing -- Aeneadum genetrix is pretty catchy and has a good beat.  Ten miles with Epicurus would be a hard slog (too many cryptic footnotes).  Plato was a better writer than Socrates (Socrates really didn't write much and the first sentence of Plato's Republic may be the most perfect piece of introductry prose  in the Greek language).  As for Seneca, you've gotta love somebody who does a piece about the ruler of the known world turning into a pumpkin.

So maybe you should have spent more time with Seneca (even though Lucretius is a better writer).

Just go easy on the mushrooms.

Lol.  You misunderstand, and it is my fault for writing it as such.  I just ran dialogues in my head.  It was a hard hike and I go into my own little world.  The night before I had been reading philosophy and so I started talking to Socrates when I set off, which was pretty interesting.  He was a lively little man.  The five miles went by like nothing.  At mile 5 my dialogue became circular and so I switched off and began talking to Seneca.  He is an interesting fellow as well, and I do enjoy his writing.

It took the last 10 miles with Epicurus not because I was reading as I was walking, but because I kept challenging him to present this godawful hike I was on (it had begun to hurt and the heat was sweltering) as something pleasurable and necessary for my enjoyment of life ;).  Eventually he was able to near the end, but I think it had more to do with the fact that I was nearing camp and I had caught a waft of the smell of food and a sense of impending conviviality than it did with the fact that he had successfully and logically proven that my hike was actually part of a happy and healthy life.  I intend to bring it up with him again next time ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 29, 2013, 03:57:48 PM
No need to worry claes, shrooming in nature is a beautifully spiritual experience. There are no narcs here man :). Glad you enjoyed yourself!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 29, 2013, 05:42:52 PM
Elitesix,

Quote
Diplomacy Policy: None; do as you wish, keeping in mind consequences in future games, as well as later in that game (if you stab someone early, any alliance later in that game is likely to prove less trustworthy). Trades should be fulfilled.

i.e, the question of trade fulfillment == diplomatic policy. No enforcement from above. Non-fufillment of trade would be regarded as diplomatic treachery, and could be used by the victim as public diplomacy by censuring the violator publicly. By the same token, someone could lie about another player violating trade proposals!

As there is no way for the admin to investigate what objectively happened or didn't happen, I have chosen not to enforce trade agreements, any more than I would enforce diplomatic policy. Besides which it tends to run against the spirit of the game -- if the pretenders were appealing to a higher authority to arbitrate disputes, they wouldn't be jockeying with each other to be the highest authority!

(This was also Ysk's house rule for the other two games, and seems most reasonable to me under the circumstances, thus I followed suit.)

Buyer beware, and trader beware. My personal recommendation is to trade only with provenly committed allies.


Note that as this is a relative newbie game, I did make the provision that someone gaming the barter system to afflict their opponents would be liable to admin censure under special circumstances: make agreed reparations or be booted to AI. This involves a rare technical game exploit however, not normal trade.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on April 29, 2013, 06:07:19 PM
As there is no way for the admin to investigate what objectively happened or didn't happen, I have chosen not to enforce trade agreements, any more than I would enforce diplomatic policy. Besides which it tends to run against the spirit of the game -- if the pretenders were appealing to a higher authority to arbitrate disputes, they wouldn't be jockeying with each other to be the highest authority!

I think you confuse the spirit of the game, with the limitation of the game.

In "reality" trade wont be done by an archaic messaging system, rather two parties showing up with the goods agreed upon and only then the trade finalized.

//start rant
I actually gave it some thought, and reached the conclusion the current system is just bad.
And the solution would be a revised system, to only allow trade if certain criteria are met.
Somewhat similar to how the mercenary system works.

Example,
I send to Patla 30 Erath gems if I get 300 gold.
If i did not get the 300 gold, the 30 earth gems wont be sent.

This will be a perfect system for "simple" trades, and will keep some of the backstabbing elements if you choose to trade in Items.
//end rant

As for policing the "world economy", cant blame you for not wanting the job!

My 2 cents,
Oga
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 29, 2013, 06:48:30 PM
As there is no way for the admin to investigate what objectively happened or didn't happen, I have chosen not to enforce trade agreements, any more than I would enforce diplomatic policy. Besides which it tends to run against the spirit of the game -- if the pretenders were appealing to a higher authority to arbitrate disputes, they wouldn't be jockeying with each other to be the highest authority!

I think you confuse the spirit of the game, with the limitation of the game.

You mean pretenders aren't supposed to be jockeying with each other to be the highest authority in this game?!

I obviously recognize there is a limitation of the game engine, or I wouldn't have pointed out that the admin has no way to investigate breaches of trade agreement; and if the game itself enforced this, the question wouldn't be asked of the admin at all. This is not the same as confusing a limitation of the game engine with the spirit of the game (which by coincidence happens to inadvertently parallel the game engine limitation.)

Anyway, it isn't a question of whether I want to or not -- I literally cannot police it in any actually competent way. What am I supposed to do, threaten to boot someone to AI on the mere accusation of trade forfeit?

(Hey, Atlantis broke a trade agreement with me! -- he agreed to hand over all his territories if I let him live as my lackey! Since he broke our agreement, I'm going to boot him from the game; but since we don't want an AI if possible, I'll have to find someone else to play his position. I volunteer! That was easy, whew; proceed!  ;D What, Atlantis denies we even ever had such an agreement? Well of course he'd deny it, he broke the agreement.)

How about this? If someone voluntarily admits publicly to breaching a trade agreement, I will threaten to boot them to AI unless they comply with the trade agreement, which both parties must agree to in detail publicly (before or after the fact). It isn't like I can confirm or deny they actually broke a trade agreement otherwise! How many people agree to that, raise their hands? ;) Now, how many people will voluntarily admit in public they broke a trade agreement, if they choose to break it, raise their hands!


I agree the trade system is broke (strictly speaking), but I kind of like the ballsiness of it. These mages aren't really supposed to be trading with one another, so any diplomacy has to be worked out by the players ad hoc, and that includes trade.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 29, 2013, 07:03:04 PM
A solid way to allow for enforceable simple trades is to:

(1) have both players come to an agreement, "atlantis and oceania agree to the following exchange: atlantis sends 10 water gems at the end of turn 10. oceania sends 10 astral gems at the end of turn 10." (This alone is unenforceable)
(2) have both players commit to their agreement over saved private messages (this perhaps is enforceable with screenshots or copy/paste but messy)
(3) have both players private message the moderator, you Jason, with their agreement. both players should agree on the wording in private and then copy and past that in their message to Jason so you get basically a copy of the agreement from both players (basically foolproof enforceability).

The only downside is that if for some reason people continue to not trust each other trade after trade, you'd be getting a lot of private messages. But in practice, after one significant trade where they PM'ed you, most people are just gonna trust and not worry about making their agreements enforceable in practice. Similarly, if you read a trade that you deem not simple (atlantis gives 10 gems to oceania, for 30 gems from oceania 10 turns from now), you can just let the parties know that its unenforceable.

Just an option!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 29, 2013, 08:19:14 PM
Eriu promises to enforce any trade agreements that are broken by BURNING YOUR HOUSES DOWN!!!!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 29, 2013, 09:22:48 PM
I found a trading partner. Thanks all!:)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 29, 2013, 09:25:48 PM
I found a trading partner. Thanks all!:)
I'll trade you your trading partner with my trades original trader if you want to trade?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on April 30, 2013, 02:39:22 AM
If it happened to me personally I would come and pull your arms off but I love the idea that you could easily agree to trade x for y, take y and not deliver x and say so what? Now I'm coming to stomp you - surely the essence of machiavellian trade and piratical pretenders - this is more game of thrones than dick and jane play baddies - let the lies commence!!!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on April 30, 2013, 05:51:04 AM
Hello!
I'll be able to play turn with the wifi :) .

Let the mighty statues rules!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 30, 2013, 06:48:16 AM
Hello!
I'll be able to play turn with the wifi :) .

Let the mighty statues rules!

Good! -- however, I should have asked you to contact me before you sent your turn, so I could revise the clock back first. That way Monday night would have still been the deadline, but the system would always be catching up to it. As it is, the system bumped up to Thursday before I could dial it back!

On further however ;) , it just occurred to me that if I had dialed the clock back immediately to 48 hours after setting it far ahead, we would have had the same effect without you having to contact me first (since by the terms of the request you'd be back and able to play by then in any case, barring further actual delay requests.)

I'll try to remember that in the future. Sorry guys!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 30, 2013, 06:49:45 AM
A solid way to allow for enforceable simple trades is to:

Those procedures would indeed give me objective records of a trade agreement, but I would still have no way to confirm that someone breached the contract (or not as the case may be).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 30, 2013, 10:39:23 AM
A solid way to allow for enforceable simple trades is to:

Those procedures would indeed give me objective records of a trade agreement, but I would still have no way to confirm that someone breached the contract (or not as the case may be).

In case of a dispute, you can get the turn file and see the messages to see if they were received.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 30, 2013, 02:01:34 PM
I feel that dragging the game administrator in to make trades binding is not only excessively burdensome but also contrary to the spirit of what is going on in this fantasy simulation.  I hesitate to drag in the word realistic, because in the context of what we're doing the whole concept of realistic is absurd, but I would argue that the absence of a mechanism for enforcing trades is not an oversight on the part of the game designers.

Essentially what is being requested is an imposition of a nanny-state super regulatory authority, which makes absolutely no sense in a universe where there is no universal supreme authority who could impose anything on anyone.  The Pantokrator is dead and the world is in a state of anarchy.  If a successful pretender wants to make trades binding in the universe after he conquers it, that's fine.  But not until after he conquers it and restablishes order.

People tell lies but for the most part have fairly decent ethical standards when dealing one on one.  Governments, on the other hand, often have really lousy ethical standards and tell lies all the time, witness Bethmann Hollweg's scrap of paper.  I won't comment on the logical progression, but suspect that in our case it only gets worse as you progress upwards from human beings.  What kind of personal morality should you expect from deities who encourage their followers to engage in necromancy and human sacrifice?  And anyone familiar with Allistair Crowley knows what necromancy can actually involve, so the less said about this the better.

Is it reasonable to expect a Loki or a divine trickster (tons of them in West Africa and the American Southwest)  to keep his word every time he makes a bargain?  A rudimentary acquaintance with the world's mythologies will teach you that many societies have had deities who only keep their word when it suits them.  These are admitedly in the minority, but there's one in every family, and knowing the magic formula that will keep the devil honest is a motif found in many different folklores and religions.

The problem of people welching on a deal is something that is confronted in the real world (tm) all of the time.  The issue is more troublesome than many realize, because although there are hopeless reams of legislation that usually give you a pretty good shot at eventual redress,  the real damage is often caused by the failure of timely execution, not to mention the exorbitant legal fees that will get paid to lawyers along the way.  If a foreign exchange trader buys marks against dollars, he will probably have sold the marks on to someone else before he takes delivery.  When settlement day comes and he pays out his dollars but doesn't get marks in exchange, he still has to come up with the marks (from somewhere) when he pays them out in the next deal where he sells the marks to lock in what would have been his profit but is probably now his loss.  He may get his money back in five or six years when the lawsuits and counter-suits have worked their way through court, but the ROI stinks and the return is sickening when you factor in administrative costs, legal fees, and loss of management time.

So yes, this is a live issue, and has been one for a very long time.  It used to be refered to as Herstatt risk, after Bankaus Herstatt which went famously bankrupt in 1974 while in the midst of settling sales of dollars against marks.  Because Germany is to the east of New York and its business day ends several hours earlier, Herstatt took delivery of marks in a series of foreign exchange trades, but was closed down before it had paid out dollars, leaving everyone who had sold them marks holding the bag.  After that bankers began waking up and imposing trading limits.  These limits were usually self-policed courtesy of individual banks' credit committees, rather than imposed or enforced by one or more central banks (though I suspect that anyone who overlooked such a fashionable risk would have gotten a few caustic comments about what a prudent banker should do from their regulators).  Nowadays this subject is generally called counter-party risk, and applies to any kind of over-the-counter trading; typical examples would be fixed income securities, foreign exchange, and interest rate derivatives.

The world of trade finance has been dealing with the counter-party problem for a very long time.  My favorite stories have to do with how goods were exchanged on the West African coast around 500 B.C. (and for almost 2000 years after that).  The locals would leave a pile of goods on the beach and withdraw inland.  The Phoenicians (and eventually the Portuguese) would then sail up, leave a pile of their own merchandise next to it, get back in their boats, and wait.  The locals would come back, examine what the strangers had left, and if they thought it less valuable than what they had already left, they would reduce their own pile by an amount that they felt would equalize the value of the two piles.  This trading by subtraction would go on until one side would examine the other's pile and decide that it was equal to their own, and when that happened they would take the other's goods and leave.

In the commercial world trade frequently goes on between two parties in two different countries who don't know each other and often can't really tell how trustworthy the other party is.  They don't call in the nanny-state (which would be fairly useless anyway), they use common sense.  They start small.  My factory can make ten widgets a month. If I get an order from Joe Blow in Lower Slobovia  for ten widgets, that's a month of orders I might not be able to fill for my regular customers.  And if Joe Blow proceeds not to pay me on top of messing up my relationships with my other customers (who probably turned around and bought their widgets elsewhere rather than wait while I filled a mythical ten widget Slobovian order), then my real loss is greater than just the cost of the unpaid merchandise.

So what happens in real life?  You want ten widgets? Fine.  You can pay for them first, or you better get used to the fact that I'm not going to sell you two widgets until I've seen you make good for one.  And even then I'm not going to ship you that one widget without a letter of credit.   Eventually when the two parties have gotten used to each other as trading partners the terms get relaxed a bit, and maybe they graduate from letters of credit to open account with the value of one shipment coverd by insurance or a letter of guarantee, and then eventually (after several years) somebody will propose that they reduce the cost of trading and just deal on open account.

Nobody starts a trading relationship by insisting on large block trades when there's no track record to back it up.  Complaining that there is trading risk in doing block trades on open account is like complaining that there is gravity.  If you don't like gravity, not jumping off the Empire State Building makes more sense than suing the city for not installing nets (unless you're a litigation lawyer).   



Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ubercat on April 30, 2013, 02:35:15 PM
I agree that trying to enforce trades, when the game does not include any mechanism for doing so, is excessive. I think it's enough that people have to deal with the consequences of long term mistrust in future games if they lie. If someone reneged on a deal with me, after taking my goods. I would go all out to destroy them, even if it meant my downfall as well.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on April 30, 2013, 02:40:17 PM
I also agree with the above.  When one decides to be treacherous they will forever be remembered for that behavior.  One might get an advantage for a turn or two or maybe even a complete game but the next time that player plays against people he's played with before then the offender better be prepared to be wiped out right off the bat by a coalition of the betrayed. 

Unless of course the offending player is the be all end all authority on Dominions 3 in which case he'll never lose and can afford to be treacherous.   ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 30, 2013, 02:47:29 PM
Well said.  It is posts like the above that I live for, and I see that I have found myself in august company indeed.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on April 30, 2013, 02:52:11 PM
I will say one thing in support of unenforceable trades.

I like the meta game that is brought up by unenforceable trades. It adds incentive to build trustworthy relationships. It also adds greater benefits to betrayal. Interesting. (But in case you are wondering, I am a man of my word).

I'm glad we moved the discussion from feasibility, to desirability. I think we may actually desire a game with unenforceable trades!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on April 30, 2013, 03:40:04 PM

 In other forums I've played there seems to be a general consensus regarding trades, in which trades of gems and items are obligatory for the parts involved. Of course every game can set its own rules, but there is some minimal agreements that make for common understanding. It would be a real chaos if players didn't fulfill their trades, with players carrying grudges from one game to another; it would make things too personal. And as far as I know is better not to carry enmities along games, in fact in the official forum the multiplayer rules encourage to not do so (http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-3-the-awakening/forum/thread/multiplayer-forum-rules (http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-3-the-awakening/forum/thread/multiplayer-forum-rules)); however good the simulation, is still a game.

 I think gems and item trades being obligatory is just a way of dealing with the interface limitations. As someone said, the ideal situation would be a simultaneous trade; the "trade is binding" rule -widely accepted- helps to accomplish that.
   And is just items and gems to keep it as simple as possible; trading provinces, peace agreements, no aggression pacts and all kind of diplomatic stuff is much more convoluted. These last options are not included in-game and is one step further trying to enforce that. But one simple rule to keep trade fluid and things civilized seems a very good deal to me; that rule is almost implicit by now, but of course, not mandatory. But I see this game already has the "trades should be fulfilled rule" at the first page.



Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on April 30, 2013, 04:18:01 PM
I seem to have won the wooden spoon award this turn.  Oh well.

Next one will be quicker (if the server ever gets around to acknowledging that I've sent it in).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on April 30, 2013, 04:45:53 PM
This has suddenly become very important if we are trying to set precedent for a Dom 3 community at Grogheads.  Without a clear precedent, we run the risk of having this same discussion (and don't get me wrong, I am enjoying this discussion) in each separate Dom game here.

Keep in mind that I am very new to the game, but I like the idea that there can be a place where we can play as our chosen pretenders rather than their respective controllers.  It adds an incredible amount of depth to the intrigue.  I also like the idea of keeping as much of the burden as possible off of the person who graciously gives their time to host the game.  So, while I do not yet have the nuance of the intrigue down yet, and may not for years to come, I vote that we follow Jason's last lead and simply let buyer beware, trader beware.

I am enjoying the meta discussion though ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on April 30, 2013, 05:22:22 PM
We could of course have a house rule that people who void trade agreements will not be allowed to play a Groghead Dom3 game for x-period of time, but again it is difficult to investigate and confirm this. (Also the arbiter would ideally have to be someone of unimpeachable character if they're one of the current players, as the only way to even try investigating it would involve having total direct access for more than a brief period of time to someone's active game.)

It would be better I think for players to keep track among themselves about who is trustworthy or not -- keeping in mind that some players like myself like to roleplay their pretenders. Gamin would not have been a trusty trade partner, much less a trusty ally. But then again I made sure to mention this (or information pointing in this direction) several times out of character.

My other two current Dom characters are honorable pretenders, and I've roleplayed them that way; part of my success in roleplaying them involves convincing other players to accept alliances and then sticking to them myself even if (as in the Early Age game) there are fatal difficulties in doing so.

Which means I win even if Under'geek steamrolls me.  ;D


AND I WON THIS GAME TTOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!11
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on April 30, 2013, 10:46:37 PM
You role-played getting eaten by an octopus very well!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 01, 2013, 01:04:18 AM
While we're on the subject of role playing our pretenders, I think that is hard for all parties to implement unless we're all playing anonymously. Given that the ingame message system is pbem, we'd also have to have anonymous forum names created anew (per game played).

You could also add things like hidden victory conditions (a public list of coniditions privately distributed, such a vp game where every capital was a vp, half vps needed to win, but maintaining the hidden victory condition gives you +5 vps), if you have a non-playing moderator. Conditions such as: (1) own 15 mountain/forest/wasteland provinces or (2) betray and conquer an ally's capital, (3) Never offer to make peace...etc. many of These conditions would require a good moderator and the use of turn files if a player declares victory, but I think would add a lot to the intrigue.

It actually could be a very interesting idea :)....would lay a great groundwork or real goal oriented role playing.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Beelzeboss on May 01, 2013, 01:39:53 AM
In my opinion trades should be binding. The argument that the developers didn't add a mechanic to make trading binding isn't valid I think. They did add a mechanic that allows me to siege a fortress with scouts or send a lot of useless items to fill someones lab (I took these examples from the start topic, no idea how the sieging scout thing works) but still we aren't allowed to use this so you shouldn't look at the game mechanics to decide on what is allowed an what not.
And as Lunaje pointed out the start topic also mentions that trades should be fullfiled.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 01, 2013, 08:23:23 AM
So, fulfill your trades. No one is stopping you. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 01, 2013, 08:25:19 AM
Ok there are four shades of green for some of the nation banners and I didn't dl the banner mod but other than looking at the pretender list and clicking on each one how can I find out what banner goes with which nation?  I can't tell 3 of the 4 shades of green apart.  Can I just click a province and see who owns it, especially if I have a scout there?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 01, 2013, 09:02:39 AM
Ok there are four shades of green for some of the nation banners and I didn't dl the banner mod but other than looking at the pretender list and clicking on each one how can I find out what banner goes with which nation?  I can't tell 3 of the 4 shades of green apart.  Can I just click a province and see who owns it, especially if I have a scout there?

Best way (and I learned the hard way) is to closely examine the icon of the banner as well as it's color.

Then go to the Pretender list screen (not hall of fame) and look for the icon. It will say what nation.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 01, 2013, 08:40:39 PM
Looks like war has engulfed quite a few nations :)

--------

Heads up to the nations I've made contact with: I'll be on vacation tomorrow through sunday (will have access to laptop and wifi unless something happens), but I probably won't be able to conduct much diplomacy until sunday.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 01, 2013, 09:20:16 PM
Looks like war has engulfed quite a few nations :)

--------

Heads up to the nations I've made contact with: I'll be on vacation tomorrow through sunday (will have access to laptop and wifi unless something happens), but I probably won't be able to conduct much diplomacy until sunday.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfslY_AvhLw
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 01, 2013, 09:54:04 PM
I know next to nothing about the world outside my immediate area. I only recently gained access to scouts.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 02, 2013, 07:22:43 AM
Ok there are four shades of green for some of the nation banners and I didn't dl the banner mod but other than looking at the pretender list and clicking on each one how can I find out what banner goes with which nation?  I can't tell 3 of the 4 shades of green apart.  Can I just click a province and see who owns it, especially if I have a scout there?

Best way (and I learned the hard way) is to closely examine the icon of the banner as well as it's color.

Then go to the Pretender list screen (not hall of fame) and look for the icon. It will say what nation.

Thanks elite for the advice.  Did as you recommended and now the lay of the land makes much more sense to me.   :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 02, 2013, 09:08:04 AM
Next time I set up a game, I will make sure the game accepts the graphics mods from the outset, so that people who do want to use them can do so. That will solve much of the problem with the similar flags.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 03, 2013, 08:34:27 AM
What the hell have you people done to Dagan the sage? The poor guy.

On a side note, does anyone know what will happen if I set a certain diseased person to build a lab, when he's scheduled to die on the next turn due to said disease?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 03, 2013, 11:46:09 AM
This is the sequence in which events happen during hosting for turn generation:

   1.

      Recruit
          New units and commanders are recruited. This means recruits will always be available during the turn, no matter what else happens.

   2.

      Research
          Mages perform their research. Even if a mage is assassinated or otherwise killed, he will contribute his research points to his nation that turn.

   3.

      Empowerment
          Increased magic paths due to Empowerment are conferred here.

   4.

      Forge New
          Items are forged and placed in their nation's magic item inventory.

   5.

      Rituals
          All mages cast their rituals in a random order.

   6.

      Magic battles
          All battles caused by magic are resolved. For example, commanders taken away by Wind Ride fight now.

   7.

      Site searches
          Magic site searches are resolved.

   8.

      Prayers
          Prophets are declared and gods awaken. Note that Dominion spread happens later, but this is where dominion is increased by prayer (only).

   9.

      Blood Hunting
          The hunt for blood slaves takes place.

  10.

      Random events
          Like it says. This is where those Fortune/Misfortune events happen.

  11.

      Assassinations
          Assassination attempts are resolved. The battles are fought immediately.

  12.

      Friendly Movement
          All Movement ending in a friendly province takes place now. If you are trying to get to a friendly province before an enemy does, you will do it if you are not stopped by an event that takes place in the steps before.

  13.

      Other movement
          All other movement, including Break Siege takes place.

  14.

      Movement battles
          Battles caused by movement are resolved.

  15.

      Castle storming
          Castles are stormed and battles resolved.

  16.

      Global enchantments
          Global enchantments take effect on the world. Note that the casting takes place during the Rituals step (5), though.

  17.

      Magic items
          Special effects from magic items take place. The items themselves are forged during the Forge step (4), though.

  18.

      Sneak discovery
          Sneaking units may be revealed in this step. All battles are resolved immediately.

  19.

      Buildings
          Fortresses, temples, and labs are constructed (or demolished).

  20.

      Special orders
          Special orders like Reanimate, Heal or summon allies are performed. Thus, allies summoned during a turn will not be available for that turn's battles.

  21.

      Income
          All nations collect income for their provinces.

  22.

      Starvation
          Units without supplies suffer starvation effects. This means that the first turn an army goes without supplies, it will fight its battles without starvation effects, since all battles occur in the previous steps.

  23.

      Upkeep
          Upkeep is paid for the units. Note that this is after income is collected for the turn.

  24.

      Dominion
          All dominion spread (except for dominion increase by the preach command) is conducted now.

  25.

      Site effects
          Magic sites generate gems or spread disease, unrest, and the like, if they have such an effect.

  26.

      Heal
          All units regain lost hit points, unless they are diseased, in which case they suffer more wounds, instead.

  27.

      Mercenaries
          Mercenaries are bought or maintained.

  28.

      Scouting
          new scouting reports are generated for each player.


There may still be some things missing from the list. But disease effects come almost at the end of resolution, whereas building is somewhere in the middle. So unless something else interferes, he'll finish construction first, then die of disease.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 03, 2013, 12:51:58 PM
Thanks for that Mr. Pratt. It looks like Dagan's last act on this earth will be building me a lab  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on May 03, 2013, 01:20:51 PM
So are you going to regale us with a list of his infirmities? 

Is he missing limbs?

Does he dribble when he eats?

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 03, 2013, 02:41:02 PM
What the hell have you people done to Dagan the sage? The poor guy.

On a side note, does anyone know what will happen if I set a certain diseased person to build a lab, when he's scheduled to die on the next turn due to said disease?

Ah Dagan, Sorry I might be the guilt party there. He was employed by us and was doing a fine job but then he caught a nasty social disease. Next turn he lost an eye, then his leg fell off. .. etc It eventually got to the point where there were more bit's missing than present. Unfortunately at that stage we were forced to downsize our backroom staff to concentrate on the core business and as the employment law in Ermor is not something we have yet had an opportunity to invest heavily in we let Dagan go. I was expecting a quiet retirement for him but I guess he wasn't ready to hop into the sunset.
On the plus size I rather foolishly gave him a load of gems when I was testing something and did not realise that he wouldn't return them to HR when he left our employment. If he dies have a look round and you may find them among his possessions.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 03, 2013, 03:06:00 PM
Lol what afflictions does dagan have in total?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 03, 2013, 03:26:10 PM
Hahaha mkivcs!  Did you ever let the poor guy have a break during his work?

He's serving me faithfully in one of my other games.  Not a bad little researcher!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 03, 2013, 03:42:22 PM
When I get home from work I'll catalogue them all. Suffice to say, alot. And he's going to die from disease next month.

And boy, he has quite a handful of gems that I imagine will die with him... I don't think they'll end up in my treasury.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 03, 2013, 03:48:42 PM
You should hope he dies in your territory; then they will (have at least a chance of) end(ing) up in your inventory.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 03, 2013, 09:46:51 PM
It appears that poor Dagan has lost both his eyes, suffers from a terrible case of fright, and is diseased.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 04, 2013, 05:42:40 PM
Did he survive??
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on May 04, 2013, 06:48:18 PM
I don't see him on the list of available or hired mercenaries, so my guess would be that he didn't.

Alas, poor Dagan, I knew him well.  Where be your jibes now?  Your merriment?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 04, 2013, 07:25:31 PM
Alas Dagan succumbed to disease, but not before completing his last useful act. He built my lab :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 04, 2013, 10:03:53 PM
Sadness :(. I wanted to hire him.
Alas Dagan succumbed to disease, but not before completing his last useful act. He built my lab :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 05, 2013, 03:31:04 AM
Sadness :(. I wanted to hire him.
Alas Dagan succumbed to disease, but not before completing his last useful act. He built my lab :)

I've got some bits of him that fell off in a box somewhere, send me some gold and I'll teleport them to you. I wonder if he left those gems behind?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 05, 2013, 08:45:27 AM
ALERT!!--I WILL NOT ENFORCE THAT TRADE!!!  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ubercat on May 06, 2013, 08:03:15 AM
Remember guys, if you're the last person to take your turn, you can go ahead and take the next one a minute later after the server processes.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on May 06, 2013, 09:08:42 AM

 I think that's unnecessary pressure on players. The game was created with a 48 hours schedule, and players should be allowed to make use of them as long as they don't stale, which starts damaging the game. There are a million valid reasons why players may take the 48 hours to send their turns.

 I for example, was the last one to send his turn this time, but I don't always do so. I may have send two turns in a row if we were in the very early game (when there aren't many things to do), but I don't want to do so anymore because if I send the turns very early, the next turn may come earlier too, and that messes up my schedule; 48 hours helps me deal with that. And also I won't send my current turn right away because I'm at work and can't play here. I sent the current one just this morning because yesterday I was very busy and forgot about it.
  So I will send my turns as soon as I can, every time, but probably won't send two turns in a row if I'm the last one to send (which probably won't be very often, given the first part).

 I don't intend to sound rude, but I'm just one player. And with many players in this game, I'm sure they have reasons as or more valid than mine to make use of the 48 hours to play. I'd like to think we're not being slow just to annoy the rest :P



 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 06, 2013, 09:44:42 AM
I don't think it's a matter of players being slow intentionally, at least for most of what I've seen here.  We're all a great group of guys and I'm enjoying this game immensely.  You all are a big reason why this game is fun.

Life is getting in the way most of the time there is a delay in sending in a turn.  While we may all be at different stages in life (i.e. married with kids, single but committed, etc.) I think we're all mature enough to send in our turns real life events permitting.  Most of the PBEM games I've played have involved no more than 3 other human players.  The game turns for this mammoth PBEM are coming in way faster than many of those smaller PBEM games I've played so the pace is very impressive IMHO. 

As we move deeper into this particular game the decisions being made for each turn increase exponentially in complexity.  Hence more time is needed to process a turn the later we get into the game.  I for one need plenty of time to ponder and reason out the issues that are presented to me as the game develops.  Although I could speed up my response time by immediately submitting my turn upon email receipt, I won't because I may need to analyze the situation more closely.  That means that I need to get real life stuff done first and out of the way so that I have a good time block to dedicate to this game.  If I didn't care about what happened to me sure I'd rush through and submit my turns quickly.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 06, 2013, 09:49:02 AM
I don't think it's a matter of players being slow intentionally, at least for most of what I've seen here.  We're all a great group of guys and I'm enjoying this game immensely.  You all are a big reason why this game is fun.

Life is getting in the way most of the time there is a delay in sending in a turn.  While we may all be at different stages in life (i.e. married with kids, single but committed, etc.) I think we're all mature enough to send in our turns real life events permitting.  Most of the PBEM games I've played have involved no more than 3 other human players.  The game turns for this mammoth PBEM are coming in way faster than many of those smaller PBEM games I've played so the pace is very impressive IMHO. 

As we move deeper into this particular game the decisions being made for each turn increase exponentially in complexity.  Hence more time is needed to process a turn the later we get into the game.  I for one need plenty of time to ponder and reason out the issues that are presented to me as the game develops.  Although I could speed up my response time by immediately submitting my turn upon email receipt, I won't because I may need to analyze the situation more closely.  That means that I need to get real life stuff done first and out of the way so that I have a good time block to dedicate to this game.  If I didn't care about what happened to me sure I'd rush through and submit my turns quickly.

what i have found as the game gets deeper and the intracacies of the plot play out - i need to plan alot more ahead, like chess - theres a lot of 'if i go there now, and meet those troops from there, and he doesnt attack there and i move over here' - whilst ive enjoyed all the MP Dom III games im in - im enjoying this one very much, well i was until Ubercat showed up on my horizon  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 06, 2013, 11:06:44 AM
I don't intend to sound rude, but I'm just one player.

You don't sound rude at all, your points are perfectly valid.  As I've said before, turn timers are there for a reason and as long as people aren't failing to submit turns, there's no problem as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 06, 2013, 11:16:24 AM
Back to back turns are hard to do in anything but super early game because diplomacy is very important to dominions 3.

And with a new turn file, there are often new situations that require diplomatic communication before planning one's turn.

That being said, I do like it when the last player submits back to back turns from turn 1-10. But after turn 10, there is enough diplomacy for that to be unrealistic sometimes.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 06, 2013, 12:01:04 PM
In case anyone was concerned, Olaf has once again joined the realm of the living. On a side note, I now have like 15 generic priests sitting around. Ritual suicide may be in their cards in the future...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 06, 2013, 12:35:40 PM
come on the Eriu!!! youve expanded smartly without him
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 06, 2013, 01:14:15 PM
Oddly enough, my pretender is not particularly relevant to my plans for this game  ::)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 06, 2013, 02:09:15 PM
Ritual suicide may be in their cards in the future...

Maybe they can all achieve the 'level beyond human' and catch a ride on a U.F.O.?

(http://i1.wp.com/listverse.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/1463_heavens_gate_468.jpg)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 06, 2013, 03:08:13 PM
$%^&$. a few Hero Trolls decided to "liberate" one of my territories........Wearing magic armor and weapons. I have a feeling this next battle is going to get bloody..........................grrrr.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 06, 2013, 03:15:33 PM
$%^&$. a few Hero Trolls decided to "liberate" one of my territories........Wearing magic armor and weapons. I have a feeling this next battle is going to get bloody..........................grrrr.

I would advise against trying to fight them right now. They are incredibly strong, with powerful magic weapons, and they have unique orders to attack commanders. Generally, they'll kill your commanders really quickly. It takes a lot to beat them, and it usually isn't worth the effort and cost this early in the game.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 06, 2013, 03:31:52 PM
$%^&$. a few Hero Trolls decided to "liberate" one of my territories........Wearing magic armor and weapons. I have a feeling this next battle is going to get bloody..........................grrrr.

I would advise against trying to fight them right now. They are incredibly strong, with powerful magic weapons, and they have unique orders to attack commanders. Generally, they'll kill your commanders really quickly. It takes a lot to beat them, and it usually isn't worth the effort and cost this early in the game.

I agree!
Unless you really know what you are doing (Mind Burn, Paralyze...) better not throw armies at them.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 06, 2013, 04:04:33 PM
Just to clear up any confusion, Atlantis is open to diplomatic agreements with any and all nations, including land nations, unless I hear otherwise from Jason!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 06, 2013, 04:24:39 PM
I think sometime around gamestart there was an agreement that the players felt okay with allowing the sea factions to create alliances. So I have no problem with it. (I only disallowed it originally to help prevent game imbalances, since experienced sea players can dominate.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 06, 2013, 04:42:17 PM
$%^&$. a few Hero Trolls decided to "liberate" one of my territories........Wearing magic armor and weapons. I have a feeling this next battle is going to get bloody..........................grrrr.

Did you take misfortune scales? If so how much order/turmoil and how much misfortune? I'm trying to do some case studies on misfortune scales.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 06, 2013, 05:07:26 PM
$%^&$. a few Hero Trolls decided to "liberate" one of my territories........Wearing magic armor and weapons. I have a feeling this next battle is going to get bloody..........................grrrr.

Did you take misfortune scales? If so how much order/turmoil and how much misfortune? I'm trying to do some case studies on misfortune scales.

No. I took a very vanilla approach. The territory they took had no unrest,....and a general there with 20 troops patrolling. The general died and most of the troops escaped to various surrounding territories. I see how they go after commanders first,....and in my attack I have a surprise for them if they do the same thing.

 Can the trolls move and attack an adjacent territory?

 I think I can handle them............I am strong in what they are weak against..................
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 06, 2013, 05:52:00 PM
They don't move.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 06, 2013, 05:55:00 PM
They don't move.

Ah good, then I can wait. Thanks.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 06, 2013, 08:10:08 PM
As we move deeper into this particular game the decisions being made for each turn increase exponentially in complexity.  Hence more time is needed to process a turn the later we get into the game.  I for one need plenty of time to ponder and reason out the issues that are presented to me as the game develops.  Although I could speed up my response time by immediately submitting my turn upon email receipt, I won't because I may need to analyze the situation more closely.  That means that I need to get real life stuff done first and out of the way so that I have a good time block to dedicate to this game.  If I didn't care about what happened to me sure I'd rush through and submit my turns quickly.
I have decided, this far in, that from now on I will be taking copious notes as I go along, as well as finding a mod that can tell me which provinces I have taken certain actions in (or try my hand at making my first mod) perhaps with a color designation in the corner, or something, as well as taking notes on decisions and projected paths for certain commanders and provinces.  It has gotten much, much longer for turns, for a first time mp player like myself.  But I am enjoying them immensely.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Myrmidon on May 06, 2013, 09:19:23 PM
Hey all,

I'm terribly sorry to have to say this, but I've had some RL stuff come up that won't permit me to keep up with this game any further.   I'm bummed because I was having a great time, and off to a good start.

That being said, hope you all enjoy the remainder of the game.  I'll PM JasonPratt my Pretender password, and let him know of my current NAPs and hostilities.

Sorry!

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 06, 2013, 09:34:11 PM
Sorry that you have to drop out, but I'm jealous of this thing I hear people talk about called 'real life.'

 If your nation is still in decent shape we should try to find a sub rather than turning AI.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 06, 2013, 11:46:08 PM
That's a shame Myrmidon.  Thanks for playing; hopefully you can join in another game later on!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 07, 2013, 12:04:57 AM
ahhhhh Jasons new nation arrives at last!!!

Sorry to see you go Myrmidon - hope RL turns out ok
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 07, 2013, 01:34:56 AM
Another one bites the dust...  :(
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 07, 2013, 02:59:12 AM
If Jason takes Ulm, it would be awkward unless he can completely forgive and forget...given Ulm is my closest neighbor and I did eliminate him....

It was great playing with you Myrmidon!! Its not too late to reconsider!:)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 07, 2013, 05:48:24 AM
Hey all,

I'm terribly sorry to have to say this, but I've had some RL stuff come up that won't permit me to keep up with this game any further.   I'm bummed because I was having a great time, and off to a good start.

Sorry!

Hope all is well with you and that you sort things out in the real world soon.  Good gaming with you and maybe we'll bump into each other again in some other game sometime.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2013, 06:36:33 AM
If Jason takes Ulm, it would be awkward unless he can completely forgive and forget...given Ulm is my closest neighbor and I did eliminate him....

Ulm has a NAP3 (Non-aggression pact 3turn warning) with Atlantis, and I would honor that. I don't have any grudge against you; you did the strategically proper thing under the circumstances. :)

(My pretender in-character would hold a grudge, but he's dead now, or deader than usual, and anyway isn't in control of Ulm. So no worries there either. Depending on how our factions are building up and what my pretender is, I might even try for a stronger alliance.)

Besides, you're Atlantis. What am I going to do, drown on top of you in my big heavy suits of armor? ;)

Also, my knowledge of the game situation was very limited at the time I was put out, and what little I knew is now probably outdated. So that shouldn't be a problem either.


Also, I WENT TO ALL THE TROUBLE OF SETTING UP THIS GAME DANGIT!!!  ;D So there.


Myrmidon already sent in his turn, so I'll join in next turn.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 07, 2013, 06:45:31 AM
hes back

let it be known that my pretender is a long lost cousin of my Neifelheim pretender - thats how I'M roleplaying it - and Ulm just asked for a bit of peace and quiet on my southern border and asked to be friends - i see one twitch out of you down there and youre spider food!!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2013, 07:27:10 AM
Okay, I've set Ulm's email address to be mine, and Myrm gave me his game password (note: game passwords aren't actually necessary and they only make things dodgier in case you have to pass the game to someone else). So when the server sends the next turns I should pick up Ulm.

Something I discovered (or maybe re-discovered, as I recall someone mentioning this toward the start of the game) is that I don't really have to have players' original email addresses for game delivery, in order to change their delivery addresses. It's still a good idea as an extra way for me to contact out-of-touch players to check up on them, but next time I set up a game I won't require them.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 07, 2013, 07:34:25 AM
Good to hear :)

If Jason takes Ulm, it would be awkward unless he can completely forgive and forget...given Ulm is my closest neighbor and I did eliminate him....

Ulm has a NAP3 (Non-aggression pact 3turn warning) with Atlantis, and I would honor that. I don't have any grudge against you; you did the strategically proper thing under the circumstances. :)

(My pretender in-character would hold a grudge, but he's dead now, or deader than usual, and anyway isn't in control of Ulm. So no worries there either. Depending on how our factions are building up and what my pretender is, I might even try for a stronger alliance.)

Besides, you're Atlantis. What am I going to do, drown on top of you in my big heavy suits of armor? ;)

Also, my knowledge of the game situation was very limited at the time I was put out, and what little I knew is now probably outdated. So that shouldn't be a problem either.


Also, I WENT TO ALL THE TROUBLE OF SETTING UP THIS GAME DANGIT!!!  ;D So there.


Myrmidon already sent in his turn, so I'll join in next turn.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2013, 07:35:07 AM
let it be known that my pretender is a long lost cousin of my Neifelheim pretender - thats how I'M roleplaying it - and Ulm just asked for a bit of peace and quiet on my southern border and asked to be friends - i see one twitch out of you down there and youre spider food!!!

While I would expect armor to be great for squishing spiders, I'm not going to pick fights with anyone unless I think I have to, certainly not before I have (what I think is) a handle on the faction. And certainly not with the faction I described as "damn if that doesn't sound awesome". ;)

U'geek does raise a good point, though; is there anyone besides the Chinese that I'm at war with? Also, I don't know the history of Ulm's conflict with Tien, so I don't know if I should be protecting myself against someone invading my lands or what.

Myrm says that he has a tentative peace with Eriu, and a NAP-3 with Machaka (that's U'geek) as well as the aforementioned Atlantis. I have no intentions of voiding any of those.

(Usually I prefer to keep my diplomatic arrangements obscure from anyone except who I'm allied with, but I figure I'd better verify things to catch up with the game.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 07, 2013, 07:40:08 AM
let it be known that my pretender is a long lost cousin of my Neifelheim pretender - thats how I'M roleplaying it - and Ulm just asked for a bit of peace and quiet on my southern border and asked to be friends - i see one twitch out of you down there and youre spider food!!!

While I would expect armor to be great for squishing spiders, I'm not going to pick fights with anyone unless I think I have to, certainly not before I have (what I think is) a handle on the faction. And certainly not with the faction I described as "damn if that doesn't sound awesome". ;)

U'geek does raise a good point, though; is there anyone besides the Chinese that I'm at war with? Also, I don't know the history of Ulm's conflict with Tien, so I don't know if I should be protecting myself against someone invading my lands or what.

Myrm says that he has a tentative peace with Eriu, and a NAP-3 with Machaka (that's U'geek) as well as the aforementioned Atlantis. I have no intentions of voiding any of those.

(Usually I prefer to keep my diplomatic arrangements obscure from anyone except who I'm allied with, but I figure I'd better verify things to catch up with the game.)

youre all good with me - what with the fat octupus floating around - you can have the coastal regions down there!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 07, 2013, 08:15:37 AM
That sounds like the understanding i had with Ulm.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 07, 2013, 10:06:19 AM
Also, I WENT TO ALL THE TROUBLE OF SETTING UP THIS GAME DANGIT!!!  ;D So there.

And I sincerely hope that you do so again, at a later date.  You are an amazing and unique gm of sorts, and you are very personable.  While I haven't experienced any others in the Dom3 community yet, I have a feeling that you shine among them.  I am very glad to have met you, and all of the players.  This is a nice and helpful community, and I posted in a thrad on Wargamer forum alluding to that, because I have heard some stories of other communities torn apart by distrust and malice and certain gamers desires to win at all costs, even at the expense of his role-play and whether or not anyone else suffers for it.  I am glad both that I have met you and the other gamers that have joined in this game, and I appreciate the leeway and training wheels that you are allowing us newcomers to the game to have, and you very graciously explain things slowly and clearly, all the well knowing that you are making someone who might later use that knowledge against you because they will be in a position to do so and it will become strategically necessary.

Not me.  I am still learning the many layers of this game, and each time I peel one back I see another one beneath.  It is truly amazing, as is this community.  Three cheers to you, Jason, and for the rest of the players.  You are excellent players, and gracious to newcomers, knowing also that this will not make someone potentially stronger than you in game but will strengthen the ties to the community and the entire community will benefit.  Three cheers, I say! 

So I have not been doing much since I discovered where I am.  How do I contact my closest neighbor?  First, identify him, and then use ingame messaging or is it preferred to use forum private messaging or it all just depends.  I wish to seek a possible alliance, because Most of what I have been doing is not very useful in the long run for the win, although I have accomplished the seizure of my surrounding provinces from the indies, I have yet to discover how to plan on which spells I will need and when to use them and so on.  Next time I will be better able to set up my pretender, knowing what I do now, and I will be able to plan better, but I don't mind being muscle or fodder if it gets me the time I need to learn a bit more.  Thanks for everything guys, you are one of a kind,
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 07, 2013, 10:31:59 AM
It's better to identify your neighbor and use an out of game messaging system. The ingame one is too delayed to be of any real use.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2013, 11:47:41 AM
It's better to identify your neighbor and use an out of game messaging system. The ingame one is too delayed to be of any real use.

Very true. Still fun to use some times, especially if you have sneaky reasons for wanting the information to be delayed a turn. ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 07, 2013, 12:14:33 PM
This is a nice and helpful community, and I posted in a thrad on Wargamer forum alluding to that, because I have heard some stories of other communities torn apart by distrust and malice and certain gamers desires to win at all costs, even at the expense of his role-play and whether or not anyone else suffers for it.

I've often wondered what possible enjoyment such people can get out of a game.  When I was a young child I briefly didn't enjoy playing a game unless I won, but I quickly grew out of that.

Claes, thanks for your kind words.  It's a pleasure to have you aboard!  Don't be shy of the rest of the forum too! 8)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2013, 01:03:52 PM
I'm far too embarrassed by your compliments to reply with any coherency, Claes.

So please accept this animated gif from the Wargamer smiley collection. :) (http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/love0059.gif)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 07, 2013, 01:55:40 PM
Also, I WENT TO ALL THE TROUBLE OF SETTING UP THIS GAME DANGIT!!!  ;D So there.

And I sincerely hope that you do so again, at a later date.  You are an amazing and unique gm of sorts, and you are very personable.  While I haven't experienced any others in the Dom3 community yet, I have a feeling that you shine among them.  I am very glad to have met you, and all of the players.  This is a nice and helpful community.


Exactly how I feel, game also seems to actually BE noob friendly, unlike others I joined where I was supposed to be cannon fodder to RL Scandinavians friends...

Mr Pratt, I salute you.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2013, 02:26:34 PM
Hey, I proved how newbie friendly this game was by PROMPTLY GETTING MYSELF KILLED OUT OF THE GAME!

Now that's hardcore devotion.  ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 07, 2013, 04:04:10 PM
You do seem to have cultivated a real talent for getting killed early! :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 07, 2013, 05:11:57 PM
You do seem to have cultivated a real talent for getting killed early! :D

It's not his fault - just ask undercovergeek :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 07, 2013, 08:03:06 PM
Just making sure that everyone knows this:

Everyone should double check the llamaserver page 20 minutes after they email their 2h file to make sure it was received.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 08, 2013, 06:25:39 AM
More specifically, if you haven't gotten back an acknowledgment of receipt in 20 minutes, you might as well resend.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 08, 2013, 11:14:51 AM
claes man, heads up, you staled last turn (you did not submit your turn and the 48hr timer expired).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 08, 2013, 11:23:22 AM
(http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/headshot.gif)


Well, hopefully he was just planning to research and keep building some forts or whatever.

I don't think I received any request for an extension...?


Meanwhile, squee, my first turn as Ulm as arrived!


... ...... I did not just squee.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 08, 2013, 11:25:20 AM
Stales hurt, but one stale only really hurts like before turn 10 or when you're at war...it's not a huge deal imho.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 08, 2013, 11:45:40 AM
That was an interesting battle for your first turn Jason. If those pikement could have hung on for another round or two, you could have won the battle.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 08, 2013, 12:02:14 PM
That was an interesting battle for your first turn Jason. If those pikement could have hung on for another round or two, you could have won the battle.

hes fighting already?

such an angry man
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 08, 2013, 01:17:40 PM
He's also patrolling a lot. Already killed two of my scouts.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 08, 2013, 01:44:03 PM
he fought you? or you witnessed a battle?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 08, 2013, 01:54:26 PM
I saw the battle.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 08, 2013, 03:25:04 PM
That was the final move of Myrmidon, not me.

Hopefully he didn't suicide all my troops off somewhere. ;) (I haven't seen my position yet.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 09, 2013, 07:49:53 AM
claes man, heads up, you staled last turn (you did not submit your turn and the 48hr timer expired).
Shit!  Thanks, I had completed the turn but I must not have mailed it in.  I typically check to see if anything major happened: not sure what, but I just take a quick look at what happened, and then I end the turn and let it sit in my mind for a while.  I have been so busy recently, and this sort of game is ideal.  At night, when it is nice and quiet, and I am calm from my nighttime pharmaceuticals, I load up Dominions 3 and try and figure out a way to not get myself slaughtered.  Then I email the turn in.

I'm thinking that I might not have missed much, but thanks for the heads up, I will try not to let that happen again, and if so, I am fine with the penalty.  It's a decent amount of time, but honestly the turns have been taking me quite a bit longer than early game, and I don't see that changing anytime soon, so I will have to plan accordingly.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 09, 2013, 08:36:53 AM
maybe a good idea just to put a shout out on here if theres 3 or 4 hours left and the turns still outstanding - as long as its not going to get seen as turn harrassment
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 09, 2013, 09:38:49 AM
^^ Good idea. I'll try to pm or resend the turn to anyone who hasn't come in by then, too. (The server sends a 12 hour email alert.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Phobos on May 09, 2013, 11:07:59 AM
I usually get a 'turn received' message within a couple of minutes of sending.  I like to keep an eye on that, simply because I have attached the wrong turn file a couple of times, even forgot to attach a file once.  You get an error message in that instance, telling you what the problem is.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 09, 2013, 07:23:27 PM
^^ Me, too.


Okay, with Mother's Day this weekend, and with family coming in from out of town -- and with a whole new different faction to study and plan around -- I'm going to bump the gameclock ahead until sometime around 8:20 Monday night US Central Standard time. (Assuming I did that right; the first time I tried it only moved up to Saturday... still only Saturday... >:()

Find a Mom to hug this weekend! -- none of us would be here without their heroic self-sacrifice!!  8)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 09, 2013, 08:26:45 PM
Aye, my mommy is coming to visit me as well. Fortunately, her bed time is like, 8pm, so I'll have plenty of time to do my turns in the evening.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Staggerwing on May 09, 2013, 08:32:31 PM

Find a Mom to hug this weekend! -- none of us would be here without their heroic self-sacrifice!!  8)

Can it be someone else's mom? especially one at the the younger end of the age scale?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 10, 2013, 01:14:58 AM
Your obvious ploys to solicit concern and an easy hand over the weekend by mentioning your mothers means nothing to okken.  You, gentlemen, will fall lower than the rest as an example to others.

OOC:  Enjoy your weekend ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 10, 2013, 06:23:11 AM

Find a Mom to hug this weekend! -- none of us would be here without their heroic self-sacrifice!!  8)

Can it be someone else's mom? especially one at the the younger end of the age scale?

Sure! They need hugs, too!  :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 10, 2013, 11:46:50 PM
FYI, llamaserver is still showing the turn due early tomorrow morning.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 11, 2013, 07:34:29 AM
I don't think that was suppose to happen
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 11, 2013, 08:01:29 AM
Wut.

 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

It didn't even send me a 12 hour warning. i got a 12 hour warning with the Middle Age game (and sent my turn in), but not for this one.

Oh, but it did go ahead and do a 72 hour delay afterward.  ::)

Did anyone else get caught by the clock goofiness? I have no idea whether Ulm was disaffected by it (so to speak), so I suppose I haven't lost anything, other than a turn of progress compared to anyone who sent in their turn. I feel bad for anyone else though. I did try to send it forward safely.

Anyway. Now that the clock has turned over, I've set it back to 48 hours so once we've caught up to Tuesday (or less than 48 hours shy of Tuesday rather) it should be back to normal automaticaly.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 11, 2013, 08:48:47 AM
I had not yet sent my turn in, waiting to see if the server issue would be resolved, but I am not in any way disappointed or sad.  Like I said, this is a learning process for me and now that I know about how long it takes to complete my turns I have an idea of when I should complete them and that they should be sent in directly as soon as I finish rather than just saving them locally and telling myself, 'Hmm.  I finished the turn but I'm not sure that I did everything that I wanted to do, so I just won't send it in yet.  Later when I have more time I'll look at it again.'
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 11, 2013, 08:50:46 AM
I'm still going to check the original Ulm turn sent to me by the server, of course, even though I can't play it anymore. (Or I could but it wouldn't gain me anything I suppose. ;) ) There could be information there that's important and not provided in the new turn sent.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 11, 2013, 09:14:54 AM
Hi Claes,
          You can put your turn in as a backstop and anytime before it is processed you can simply submit an amended turn. My record so far is around 5 changes of mind as to what I'm going to do each time sending in an amended turn which the server acknowledges. Stops any turns being missed.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 11, 2013, 09:17:56 AM
Thanks mkivcs.  I will do so from now on.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 11, 2013, 10:38:06 AM
Just make sure if you're sending revised turns, don't send them rapidly back to back. You don't want there to be any confusion on the server's part in terms of which turn you sent last, as it will always use the last turn sent.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 11, 2013, 10:48:48 AM
Just make sure if you're sending revised turns, don't send them rapidly back to back. You don't want there to be any confusion on the server's part in terms of which turn you sent last, as it will always use the last turn sent.

Also keep in mind that whoever is last to send in a turn basically forfeits the chance to revise. Indeed, the farther down the list one is when sending in, the less probable it is that you'll have time to revise and resend (although that's very variable of course).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 11, 2013, 02:34:08 PM
Well, I killed the trolls,......there were 5 of them. I lost around 12 of my cheap troops and 1 commander. Naturally that commander was my pretender........:(

  Oh well, my pretender was mainly for research and magic support....so no really big loss,...but still.......@#$%!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 11, 2013, 03:35:00 PM
Heh.  Well done, but you were warned!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 11, 2013, 04:17:51 PM
i think i have the dreaded wild boar of doom!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 12, 2013, 07:08:56 AM
Seriously, dang. I'd've sent in a few cheap leaders so that losing one didn't necessarily involve such a large morale hit, while the rest of my troops whittled away at the troll.s

Also, how unfair is it that the AI can have scripts for targeting commanders, but we don't! (I guess the AI needs some edges, and humans would exploit that too much.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 12, 2013, 08:40:03 AM
Seriously, dang. I'd've sent in a few cheap leaders so that losing one didn't necessarily involve such a large morale hit, while the rest of my troops whittled away at the troll.s

Also, how unfair is it that the AI can have scripts for targeting commanders, but we don't! (I guess the AI needs some edges, and humans would exploit that too much.)

It was a flying commander. I knew he was there from watching the battle when they took the territory,...so I had all my archers and quite a few strong units in position with orders to attack flying units waiting for when he appeared behind my troops. He appeared right next to my pretender.......hit him once, then a single arrow hit my pretender from across the map and he died. From that point on it was a slaughter in my favor.

 For some reason I didn't even think about the fact that my pretender had no armor and would be an easy kill, and of course my nation has very weak priests. Oh well, live and learn. Time to start looking for a territory that has a priests/commander above level 1 I can recruit.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 12, 2013, 11:22:49 AM
Seriously, dang. I'd've sent in a few cheap leaders so that losing one didn't necessarily involve such a large morale hit, while the rest of my troops whittled away at the troll.s

Also, how unfair is it that the AI can have scripts for targeting commanders, but we don't! (I guess the AI needs some edges, and humans would exploit that too much.)


ahhhhhh and now it all becomes clear!!! this is the guy thats always at the top of the 'golden rules not to break' - because you can charm him to come to your side and use the special rules he can have - thus the 'no pasting Bogus' orders'

LIGHTBULB!!!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 12, 2013, 01:29:39 PM
??? What are you even talking about??? I see the words, and I kind of know what they mean, but they don't make any sense in those configurations.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 12, 2013, 01:33:28 PM
Haha!  He does have a cryptic posting style, bless him.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 12, 2013, 01:35:42 PM
I'm allying with him pronto in my next game just so I don't have to worry about keeping an eye on him. And/or and keep an eye on him better.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 12, 2013, 02:49:52 PM
pair of cheeky bastards - on all other games ive started the top cheesy tactic banned golden rule never to be used is 'never copy and paste bogus' scripts' - now i find this troll guy is called bogus AND he can target the commanders - so i assume if you charm him you get access to his scripts that you can paste onto your other troops

sigh - i try and educate them, i really do
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 12, 2013, 03:13:48 PM
Ah, it all becomes clear!  More or less! :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on May 12, 2013, 05:24:49 PM
My girlfriend has had an open studio this weekend, so it is possible that I may not be able to get around to making my next turn until Monday.  The last visitor has just left and the smoke is starting to clear, but we need to start thinking about fixing dinner and making the place habitable again.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 13, 2013, 07:57:19 AM
Ah, it all becomes clear!  More or less! :D

 :o Wow, so whoever added that commander to the CBM (or to the vanilla game??) was literally trolling the players!

That's.... that's genius...

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 13, 2013, 09:04:59 AM
Bogus is in Vanilla. Apparently it's based off the designer's D&D party.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 13, 2013, 12:01:51 PM
Bogus is in Vanilla. Apparently it's based off the designer's D&D party.

Oh, Bogus is not in CBM??
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 13, 2013, 12:36:35 PM
He's in both. But I'm pretty sure he was part of the vanilla game, he wasn't added through the mod.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 13, 2013, 05:56:10 PM
Phew. Picking up Ulm is about as tough as I thought it would be.

I'm not anywhere near having the reins yet, but I don't want to stale out again, no do I think it's fair to delay other people while I fumble around, so I'm making a few adjustments and moves and sending in my turn. I'll try to have a more proper grip by Wednesday.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 13, 2013, 07:05:47 PM
good luck - i dont think its easy
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 14, 2013, 07:24:13 AM
Fortunately, my predecessor left me a good position, so I have leeway to consolidate and figure out paths forward.

(Step 1 -- stop invading T'ien. ;) )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 15, 2013, 01:21:51 PM
All is fairly quiet in the thread, yet war rages over much of faerun! :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 15, 2013, 01:32:32 PM
Keep forgetting how big the map is - there's some huge confrontations to be had when it kicks off
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on May 15, 2013, 02:09:11 PM
The mighty Agartha is willing to trade ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 15, 2013, 02:36:06 PM
Keep forgetting how big the map is - there's some huge confrontations to be had when it kicks off

When?
There is war all around me...  :-\
Its like ragnarok out there!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 15, 2013, 04:57:58 PM
I may have made the silly mistake of making peace with all of my neighbors...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 15, 2013, 06:01:08 PM
That's one way to win, actually, so go you! :)

The new turn is up btw, so everyone have fun. Hopefully next time I won't need the full two days to finish catching up. (I still have some things to do, but if I said what they were I might be inviting trouble. ; ) )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 15, 2013, 07:34:04 PM
Anybody got fire Gems they want to trade?  PM me for a list of Gems I can supply.  Serious offers only.  Likes to take long walks on the beach. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on May 15, 2013, 08:19:26 PM
I'm waiting for a light breeze to blow over my house of cards.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 15, 2013, 08:47:56 PM
Anybody got fire Gems they want to trade?  PM me for a list of Gems I can supply.  Serious offers only.  Likes to take long walks on the beach.

Maybe you haven't heard, but I don't think the beaches in Faerun are very safe...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 15, 2013, 10:43:58 PM
Anybody got fire Gems they want to trade?  PM me for a list of Gems I can supply.  Serious offers only.  Likes to take long walks on the beach.

Maybe you haven't heard, but I don't think the beaches in Faerun are very safe...

Au contraire, the beaches are very safe! Just be sure to stay out of the water, unless you like playing with krakens. And try to keep away from the numerous bodies that wash up on the shore, they tend to carry disease.

And if you happen find a magic item wash ashore, contact your local Atlantean priest for a reward!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 17, 2013, 09:14:59 AM
is this the turn Vlam went AI? i dont think hes expecting this one
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 17, 2013, 09:19:10 AM
I'm pretty sure Vlam went AI in the other game...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 17, 2013, 10:02:08 AM
Vlam may be about to go AI in this game, too, depending on how Agartha is doing. I'll check.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on May 17, 2013, 10:02:48 AM
I went AI the other game because I lost.
I'm not dead yet in this one.
Unfortunately, I am sorry but I have A LOT OF WORK that was given yesterday, and I'm totally under pressure...
Would you be willing to set the next turn to tomorrow 4:00 PM please :( ?

I'll play this one as fast as possible, sorry one more time. And if you don't want to, I'll stale, no problem ;) .
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 17, 2013, 10:09:09 AM
Ignore the pmail and email I sent to check up on you, then. :)

Um, when you say 4:00 tomorrow, what is your time currently?

Edited to add: don't worry, never mind, I'll just set it to 10:30ish pm Sunday GMT to be safe.

Edited to add: now done, with an immediate reset to 48 hours, so as soon as we all send in a turn less than 48 hours before the deadline, the deadline advancement will automatically go back to normal. I'm glad I figured out how to do that.  :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on May 17, 2013, 08:59:41 PM
I have come to the firm conclusion that I have no idea what the hell I'm doing.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 17, 2013, 09:04:36 PM
I have come to the firm conclusion that I have no idea what the hell I'm doing.

I, too, am simply trying to rule my kingdom of Mictlan.  But I am incredibly delighted as I do so, not because I will most assuredly lose, but because I see such wonderful permutations this game will have for me in the future ;)  I am seriously delighted with this game, losing though I am.  So much opportunity to learn, and so much time and space in which to do it.  Even if I am slaughtered I consider this game a win!

And getting into slow games is perfect for me as I am getting back into academia this next Fall semester.  I hope we have one running more or less all the time.  This is a really manageable time commitment for me along with my other game and RL commitments ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on May 18, 2013, 06:24:48 AM
Thank you very much for this extra time!!!

Yes, I guess that dom3 is this kind of game where you keep learning after years and years.
I'm trying stuff in this one :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 18, 2013, 07:54:26 AM
I have come to the firm conclusion that I have no idea what the hell I'm doing.

You're ahead of me, then.

I'm pretty sure I have some idea what I'm doing, but I'm probably wrong! (http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/00000280.gif) Dom3 is like that.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 18, 2013, 08:10:31 AM
Likewise I'm enjoying this game greatly and having manged to survive this far have learnt a great deal about what not to do!

A general question. I can see that its possible to increase a province's income but don't see anyway to do anything about resource. I have one province with a resource of 0 and as far as I can see I could never recruit anything here except PD. I suppose I could build a city but this seems an expensive experiment if I end up with 1 militia as a result.  I suppose I could just ignore it but its been irritating me and I've drawn a blank trying to find an answear so I guess this is a just a rubbish addition to the empire.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 18, 2013, 08:20:10 AM
^I've often wondered why some provinces produce no resources.  Some provinces naturally have no resources but then some others produce a little bit but I think any nearby castles tax them to nothing.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 18, 2013, 10:12:02 AM
If it provides decent income, it's never rubbish! You always need gold.

It also might have some magic sites.

But there are definitely "wasteland" provinces in the game (in addition to the type, there are lands that are pretty barren regardless of terrain type).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 18, 2013, 04:58:45 PM
Also, if there are high-resource areas around it, a fort there might be the most cost-efficient way of pulling in their resources.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 18, 2013, 05:02:47 PM
^^^ That ^^^ is the definition of a protip.  Nice.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 18, 2013, 05:06:22 PM
Unless it's a plot ploy wild guess.  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 18, 2013, 05:55:24 PM
It makes sense though, and as much of what I am doing in this game is experimentation I have no problem putting it to the test in a turn or two if I can save up enough gold.

I have a lot of ideas, and things that I want to try.  Speaking of experimentation, it almost sounds feasible enough to have run an 'experimentation' game, with a big map and a few players who want to try out some different things.  Almost like an anything goes sandbox game or an interactive tutorial to try stuff out.  I, for one, would be both happy to use such a game for experiments of my own as well as allow myself to be experimented on.  Just thoughts...

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 18, 2013, 08:14:49 PM
It makes sense though, and as much of what I am doing in this game is experimentation I have no problem putting it to the test in a turn or two if I can save up enough gold.

I have a lot of ideas, and things that I want to try.  Speaking of experimentation, it almost sounds feasible enough to have run an 'experimentation' game, with a big map and a few players who want to try out some different things.  Almost like an anything goes sandbox game or an interactive tutorial to try stuff out.  I, for one, would be both happy to use such a game for experiments of my own as well as allow myself to be experimented on.  Just thoughts...

lol,...I think that what a few of us are doing,.......in my case its because I am figuring things out as I go,......not by design.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 18, 2013, 08:20:59 PM
Well, I am trying it like a regular play-through as much as I can.  I don't want to try something that I am not sure of if it might conceivably cripple me and take me out of the game early.  There is a lot that I would like to try but am hesitant to.  But there will be more games.  It will literally take me years to hone my skills on this one, although I can maybe get decent after a year or so.  Not sure yet, but I am enjoying it all the same.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 19, 2013, 12:42:07 AM
Basically, after early game, which we're basically almost past, you want to be transitioning via research to using kitted out thugs, communions, devastating battlefield wide spells
(either killing enemy troops, or buffing your own) or super creatures on the battlefield.

Which options you go depends on your national mage selection, along with what your pretender has.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 19, 2013, 03:29:09 AM
Yes, that's where I am ??? ??? ???

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 19, 2013, 08:21:45 AM
Well, I'm setting up a new Early Age game soon; I could go with the ultra-large Greyhawk map, so that it hardly matters how many people sign up there still would be room to experiment. :)

(Also, this would give me a chance to play on the ultra-large Greyhawk map.  ;D )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 19, 2013, 08:30:28 AM
Thanks Jason.  I'm still too new to the game to care much about map and starting conditions etc (although I will always prefer score graphs off).  I just want to get going!  I'm thinking of playing Lanka...I'd love to try Caelum but I think it would probably take an expert player to get anything out of them.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 19, 2013, 11:24:50 AM
hell go for the giant map - if everyone loves playing and wants to get immerssed - whats the issue with 30 indy provinces each?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 19, 2013, 11:33:58 AM
30 provinces each??!

So a player who manages modest growth and take out 3 other nations is going to be 120 provinces large?  Man, handling a turn with 120 provinces would make me want to kill myself haha..

To each his own!:)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 19, 2013, 11:37:40 AM
30 provinces each??!

So a player who manages modest growth and take out 3 other nations is going to be 120 provinces large?  Man, handling a turn with 120 provinces would make me want to kill myself haha..

To each his own!:)

the map has 1200 provinces - if 6 people join thats 200 each BEFORE the war starts

lightweight!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Philippe on May 19, 2013, 01:36:06 PM
Well, I'm setting up a new Early Age game soon; I could go with the ultra-large Greyhawk map, so that it hardly matters how many people sign up there still would be room to experiment. :)

(Also, this would give me a chance to play on the ultra-large Greyhawk map.  ;D )

I'm behind the curve, as usual.  What is the Greyhawk map, and where can I go to take a look at it?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 19, 2013, 02:07:58 PM
I'm up for the next game too ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 19, 2013, 02:21:17 PM
Count me in as well... Ah I see we have a seperate thread for this
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 19, 2013, 02:24:40 PM
Just saw that there is a separate thread for signups, just not stickied ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 19, 2013, 03:50:20 PM
Whoops, I forgot to add a link to the new EA/MultiA game here: http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=5981.0


As noted in the description, anyone who wants a smaller game, just let me know and if there's enough interest I'll set up one of those, too.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2013, 05:11:56 AM
i had a friend for one turn!!!

turn 50 - lets be friends  :D

turn 51 - im going to declare war  :'(

the changing winds of war

sigh
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 20, 2013, 05:43:09 AM
You are on turn 51? I'm only on 24 and demand my next 27 turns today!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 20, 2013, 06:32:24 AM
i had a friend for one turn!!!

turn 50 - lets be friends  :D

turn 51 - im going to declare war  :'(

the changing winds of war

sigh

Maybe their heard rumors of your exploits, and know a treaty with you is less effective then a toilet roll.
Hey, at least they announced the war...  ;)

(For the record its not me, I am too much of a coward to take on Atlantis)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2013, 07:53:31 AM
You are on turn 51? I'm only on 24 and demand my next 27 turns today!

lmao - hence im so far in front - lol, slight turn confusion, im travelling in time im that good
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 20, 2013, 08:00:07 AM
i had a friend for one turn!!!

Not that a NAP3 counts as "friendship" exactly. ;)

But this is why I'm never going to be any good at games like this, because I read that and think "that is so sad, it's okay, please don't worry, I was only kidding, I didn't know you needed a friend that badly!!"


Then I remember he's playing this faction:

(https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/59190_531918236856085_1776092834_n.jpg)

And I feel slightly better. :) (http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/sterb032.gif)(http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/hot.gif)(http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/flametoss.gif)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2013, 08:01:19 AM
always colouring me the bad guys
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 20, 2013, 08:01:53 AM
Geek has the interesting tendency to expand and block off other's nations expansion without the strength to back it up.

He did it to me in AprilShowers on like turn 8, when I was double blessed Lanka and he was Pangaea. The blocking of my expansion was a factor in me deciding to make him my first target. He was the first out of that game :/

Similarly, I noticed in this game he promptly took most of the western coast, all while seemingly blocking off 3 western nations from expanding (two of them completely, because 2 of the nations were isle nations). If it was just one nation, I would say maybe it's just the indies or other nations inland that have forced him into that bad position. But given he is blocking three different nations, you have to think, maybe it's his strategy?

Although I don't know for sure who is at war with him, I do know that at least one of these western nations he blocked off decided they were not going to let a weak Machaka dictate borders. I would be surprised if the other nations did not come to the same conclusion.

Good luck geek, you are either very brave or very masochistic :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 20, 2013, 08:09:47 AM
If you didn't choose horrible deathy blood factions all the time we might not color you the bad guy, U'geek. ;)

(Now I'm trying to remember who you're playing over in the DomGrog LA game... Oh well, not near me, so no one important. :) )


Still, if it helps you feel any better, one of my allies accidentally invaded a region where I was almost finished building a fortress last turn. (He had good reasons at the time, I don't hold it against him. :) )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2013, 08:12:54 AM
Geek has the interesting tendency to expand and block off other's nations expansion without the strength to back it up.

He did it to me in AprilShowers on like turn 8, when I was double blessed Lanka and he was Pangaea. The blocking of my expansion was a factor in me deciding to make him my first target. He was the first out of that game :/

Similarly, I noticed in this game he promptly took most of the western coast, all while seemingly blocking off 3 western nations from expanding (two of them completely, because 2 of the nations were isle nations). If it was just one nation, I would say maybe it's just the indies or other nations inland that have forced him into that bad position. But given he is blocking three different nations, you have to think, maybe it's his strategy?

Although I don't know for sure who is at war with him, I do know that at least one of these western nations he blocked off decided they were not going to let a weak Machaka dictate borders. I would be surprised if the other nations did not come to the same conclusion.

Good luck geek, you are either very brave or very masochistic :)


oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo - bad form, anti Machaka propaganda right here for all to see

who says im weak? and youre the only sea nation that needs to come ashore

i know what youve been doing - i can smell octupus based treachery here!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 20, 2013, 08:36:46 AM
Something's only propaganda if it's not true.

You know what I'm saying is true. If you disagree, I can post a screenshot of your borders if you want (with everything else, including other nation's territories, blurred out). But I'm guessing you don't want that, right?:)


oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo - bad form, anti Machaka propaganda right here for all to see

who says im weak? and youre the only sea nation that needs to come ashore

i know what youve been doing - i can smell octupus based treachery here!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2013, 08:42:46 AM
Something's only propaganda if it's not true.

You know what I'm saying is true. If you disagree, I can post a screenshot of your borders if you want (with everything else, including other nation's territories, blurred out). But I'm guessing you don't want that, right?:)


oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo - bad form, anti Machaka propaganda right here for all to see

who says im weak? and youre the only sea nation that needs to come ashore

i know what youve been doing - i can smell octupus based treachery here!

post away - i dont see what benefit it would give anyone apart from you!

wait, what? i dont have an army in every province? oh my, my strategy has crumbled - oh no wait i remember i have 3 turns to fill in any gaps - i dont see any goal to your posting?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 20, 2013, 09:04:46 AM
Maybe you misunderstood - the screenshot would be to only prove that you expanded in a way that blocks off all expansion of the isle nations. But it sounds like you agree on that point!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 20, 2013, 09:35:48 AM
Maybe you misunderstood - the screenshot would be to only prove that you expanded in a way that blocks off all expansion of the isle nations. But it sounds like you agree on that point!

I also dare you to post those screenshots!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2013, 09:39:20 AM
Maybe you misunderstood - the screenshot would be to only prove that you expanded in a way that blocks off all expansion of the isle nations. But it sounds like you agree on that point!

oh right, you mean instead of expanding in a way that allows other nations to exploit me?

Dom III - the making friends simulator?

so attacking Jason so early wasnt you preventing him from expanding and gaining an advantage?

curious.....................
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2013, 09:42:56 AM
whilst i stand here before the Dom court i'd like to point out ive never attacked a nation without been attacked first - ever


except for ogaburan - i just couldnt stand the incessant noise anymore  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 20, 2013, 09:45:25 AM
Haha, "the incessant noise"...what does he mean by that Ogaburan - what did you do?? :)

whilst i stand here before the Dom court i'd like to point out ive never attacked a nation without been attacked first - ever


except for ogaburan - i just couldnt stand the incessant noise anymore  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2013, 10:17:28 AM
And there are 548 dead.... Well I say dead, they were dead when they arrived to be honest....bodies outside my capital in the other game - someone else who thought I was weak! Ermorrrrrrr!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 20, 2013, 11:09:00 AM
Haha, "the incessant noise"...what does he mean by that Ogaburan - what did you do?? :)

whilst i stand here before the Dom court i'd like to point out ive never attacked a nation without been attacked first - ever


except for ogaburan - i just couldnt stand the incessant noise anymore  :P

Tbh im wondering myself... have literally NO IDEA what he is referring too...

Funny argument as well... Ive never ever killed a man in my life.
Except for that one time...

Its also getting kinda hard not to take two back-stabs in the same week on 2 difference games, when i haven't exactly done anything to provoke it.
Now this crap about noise?
If its a joke i dont get it...
If its some kind of "jab" I dont get it...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2013, 11:16:32 AM
lol - just the 'its my forest', 'its all my forest' 'get out of my forest before i attack'
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 20, 2013, 11:34:41 AM
And there are 548 dead.... Well I say dead, they were dead when they arrived to be honest....bodies outside my capital in the other game - someone else who thought I was weak! Ermorrrrrrr!!

Yeah, it turns out priests are very good against undead...*grumble*
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 20, 2013, 11:40:28 AM
lol - just the 'its my forest', 'its all my forest' 'get out of my forest before i attack'

Well, it is indeed my forest! lol.

And i was quite polite about it in pm's, was cornered into an expansion that way by my predecessor.
I thought we were not supposed to carry grudges into other games, but not all have the maturity needed so it seems.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 20, 2013, 12:38:26 PM
Hey - were just playing!!

Noones grudge bearing
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 20, 2013, 01:30:23 PM
I'm staying neutral but I can't let this go unaddressed:

I thought we were not supposed to carry grudges into other games

I can't see that happening.  In fact, you're the one who's brought up Geek's actions in another game.

Quote
but not all have the maturity needed so it seems.

And that was just plain uncalled for.  I haven't seen Geek being immature at all.

Can we all remember that this is a war game?  There's only supposed to be one winner, so by default you're going to stab your allies in the back at some point.  I did it to Yskonyn in one of the other games and he had the grace not to complain about it once.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 20, 2013, 05:35:01 PM
Can we all remember that this is a war game?  There's only supposed to be one winner, so by default you're going to stab your allies in the back at some point.  I did it to Yskonyn in one of the other games and he had the grace not to complain about it once.

I'm not going to stab anyone in the back. If I'm the one of the two last nations alive and I plan to win alone, I will end my NAP-3 and give him 3 turns notice :).

Much like anything in life, taking the honorable and rightful route may be a bit harder, but it's by no means impossible.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 20, 2013, 06:10:24 PM
Well my previous pretender might have stabbed someone in the back (since that was the kind of character he was), but then again he probably wouldn't have allied with anyone in the first place either.

Ulm (and the pretenders I played/am playing in the previous games) is more honorable. Theoretically they might be touchy enough about magic not to ally with anyone else, but Myrmidon went (rather reasonably for a magically weak nation) for a strong rainbow pretender, and allied with Atlantis fairly quickly, so from that I'm playing them as being more of a personal-choice discipline about magic, or a necessary but temporary evil they plan to get rid of eventually, not something they reject in others (although they may have an overly inflated idea of the superiority of their magically minimal culture.)

Anyway, Ulm isn't going to break NAP3s, and is willing to enter into shared victory alliances: the whole group wins if they get the proper victory points between them.

I do feel as sorry for the spider-worshiping Machaka as possible, and after all I'm indisputably the aggressor. But then again, I feel sorrier for their population, too. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ubercat on May 20, 2013, 06:37:49 PM
whilst i stand here before the Dom court i'd like to point out ive never attacked a nation without been attacked first - ever

except for ogaburan - i just couldnt stand the incessant noise anymore  :P

Ummm...... EXCUSE me?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 20, 2013, 08:11:43 PM
I am the Kingdom of Man. We should all know what to expect from Men. Men men men men manly men.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 20, 2013, 08:15:37 PM
You are men!
{beat beat}
Men in tights!
{beat beat beat}
But we wear armor and run over people with knights! {beat beat beat}

(Not that this means we're coming to run over you. I'm just talking generally.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 21, 2013, 02:34:33 AM
I am enjoying the friendly banter, and have hopes that it doesn't get ugly as I have seen other forums get.  When that happens I tend to move on, because in my opinion the entire point of the game is to have fun - we are playing a fantasy strategy wargame with a multitude of factors playing into each role. 

For instance, there is one gent I know in another game that I play.  Nicest guy in the world.  Then one day he switched allegiances and became following a darker evil path.  This is a text only mmorpg with some of the most amazing intrigue that I have ever witnessed made possible by its dominion (clan) system and knowledge base.  The goal is to rise to power, but once you start following an evil path your god removes you from your dominion and you are forced to play without the benefits of the clan, and this gent pulled the one of the most amazing power grabs I have ever seen, attacking and incapacitating everyone online at the time, kicking some of them out of the game (some of the pvp attacks actually force the attacked characters account into a lock status where they cannot log in for a certain amount of time) to seize uncontested control of the entire game and demand tithes from each and every dominion in the game.  It was beautifully enacted role-play, but if you get into the game you don't see the controllers anymore; you see their characters and take each one as they come.

Granted in a mp strategy pbem game, you might find that a certain player has a style of play that he/she finds effective and they tend to use it a lot.  Nothing wrong with that.  What I always try to do in similar situations is attack the player on his own grounds, by which I mean in the game.  So I try and think - how do I prevent this guy from using this tactic over and over?  Can I send a scout around his part of the map and see which nations surround him and offer a temporary alliance for the sake of removing this pretender from the map?  As long as he is playing by the rules - rules that we are all bound to follow - than it is considered fair play, and so if I think that he is playing dirty I will do what I can to discourage the use of similar tactics in the future.  But not in the forums - we here are the controllers, not the pretenders - and so we can have an enjoyable discussion (with a few light jabs now and then but all in good fun) about the game but... oh well, I guess I am rambling but I just hope that this doesn't turn into a grudgematch.  Because, and I have seen it happen elsewhere, that can displace role-play and lead to unjustified attacks and enmity that bleeds into the posts of the threads that we read.

Let's have fun.  I'm not trying to condescend to tell anyone what to do but rather offering my thoughts on some of the things I have seen in other communities that have soured me toward them.  It's sometimes painfully obvious to a newcomer when a certain person is always trolling another certain person for no reason, and leaving other people alone who do the same thing.  Some of the communities I have seen have become hostile environments, and it detracts from the rp aspects of the game as well as removes a good amount of the pleasure you can get from playing it.  I have seen none of that here to my delight, and I hope that it stays that way.  I am enjoying this game immensely, and am hoping to get more into my role for the next one.    I know which nation it is going to be, but I am not sure what type of qualities each pretenders has.

I still haven't made my way through the entire rule-book though ;)

But sorry for my rambling.  This is my first time playing Dom3 mp, and it is a fascinating, wonderfully complex, beautiful and undeniably pleasurable experience coming home and finding a new turn in my inbox, firing up my pretender and opening the turn while switching into the role of that pretender and his quest for dominion.  You guys are all great.  Keep it up ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 21, 2013, 02:35:03 AM
whilst i stand here before the Dom court i'd like to point out ive never attacked a nation without been attacked first - ever

except for ogaburan - i just couldnt stand the incessant noise anymore  :P

Ummm...... EXCUSE me?

ah the feeble memory of the giants - long ago as i recall, the humble Machakan inhabitants of Baldurs Gate sat round their fires, telling tales to their children when a vast army of giants and wolves burst thru the forest slaughtering them all, as the chieftan bellowed 'WHY have you done this to us???' a huge Jarl bent down and said 'well, the other 2 nations i came thru were newbs and i didnt want to put them out of the game, anyway im trying a new SC thug strategy and i promised myself that the next nation i met was going to be attacked'

REMEMBER NOW GIANT SCUM????????????????

i say this in the spirit of the game so as not to upset anyone - im a nice person really, and me and ubercat share a butterfly collection IRL
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 21, 2013, 04:41:53 AM

Ummm...... EXCUSE me?

LOL, your avatar fit that post perfectly.......it actually took a second to register that the your avatar wasn't really part of the post..............
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ubercat on May 21, 2013, 07:17:04 AM
whilst i stand here before the Dom court i'd like to point out ive never attacked a nation without been attacked first - ever

except for ogaburan - i just couldnt stand the incessant noise anymore  :P

Ummm...... EXCUSE me?

ah the feeble memory of the giants - long ago as i recall, the humble Machakan inhabitants of Baldurs Gate sat round their fires, telling tales to their children when a vast army of giants and wolves burst thru the forest slaughtering them all, as the chieftan bellowed 'WHY have you done this to us???' a huge Jarl bent down and said 'well, the other 2 nations i came thru were newbs and i didnt want to put them out of the game, anyway im trying a new SC thug strategy and i promised myself that the next nation i met was going to be attacked'

REMEMBER NOW GIANT SCUM????????????????

i say this in the spirit of the game so as not to upset anyone - im a nice person really, and me and ubercat share a butterfly collection IRL

I thought you might use that as your justification. As YOU may recall We agreed that I would take that province. It was part of our deal. I guess a technicality can be used to justify your claim.

Anyway, I'm not at all mad. No NAP was broken. (THAT would have annoyed me and destroyed future trust) I just couldn't bite my lip when I read that!  :D

BUT, I am going to have to destroy your Nickerbean Blue in retaliation. I'm sure you can find another - somewhere.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 21, 2013, 08:29:39 AM
Can we all remember that this is a war game?  There's only supposed to be one winner, so by default you're going to stab your allies in the back at some point.  I did it to Yskonyn in one of the other games and he had the grace not to complain about it once.

I'm not going to stab anyone in the back. If I'm the one of the two last nations alive and I plan to win alone, I will end my NAP-3 and give him 3 turns notice :).

Much like anything in life, taking the honorable and rightful route may be a bit harder, but it's by no means impossible.

+1
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 21, 2013, 11:24:41 AM
Can we all remember that this is a war game?  There's only supposed to be one winner, so by default you're going to stab your allies in the back at some point.  I did it to Yskonyn in one of the other games and he had the grace not to complain about it once.

I'm not going to stab anyone in the back. If I'm the one of the two last nations alive and I plan to win alone, I will end my NAP-3 and give him 3 turns notice :).

Much like anything in life, taking the honorable and rightful route may be a bit harder, but it's by no means impossible.

+1

+2

That is my philosophy in life as well as games.  Sometimes it might mean I end up being a loser but my honor will remain so as not to tarnish either my or my family's name.   ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 21, 2013, 02:08:54 PM
Since it seems likely that I won't be able to send my turn in this afternoon due to storms arriving in the area (it's the same system that punched a 2-mile wide hole in an Oklahoma City suburb yesterday--not as strong now, fortunately), I've set the timeclock ahead by another 48 hours.

It shouldn't take that long to get the new turn in, though, and I've already set the clock to automatically return to the normal 48 hours.

Hope none of the Grogs were caught in that storm. :(
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 21, 2013, 03:15:03 PM
Keep safe jason
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 21, 2013, 03:35:36 PM
Speaking of delays, I'm going to be travelling from early Thursday morning to late Tuesday evening and am not sure I'll have good access to the internet. I'll try to submit turns while I'm gone, but I would like an extension in case I can't.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 21, 2013, 08:23:48 PM
Can we all remember that this is a war game?  There's only supposed to be one winner, so by default you're going to stab your allies in the back at some point.  I did it to Yskonyn in one of the other games and he had the grace not to complain about it once.

I'm not going to stab anyone in the back. If I'm the one of the two last nations alive and I plan to win alone, I will end my NAP-3 and give him 3 turns notice :).

Much like anything in life, taking the honorable and rightful route may be a bit harder, but it's by no means impossible.

+1

+2

That is my philosophy in life as well as games.  Sometimes it might mean I end up being a loser but my honor will remain so as not to tarnish either my or my family's name.   ;)

Agreed, although part of the fun of role-playing can be playing the rogue-thief or the scoundrel or the chaotic-evil doer.  However, in situations like that, by end games time it would be obvious to not trust the character who has been making obviously evil choices throughout.  I am in full agreement that it would be wrong to play the trusting alliance-mate and then revoke said alliance without notice to secure the victory.  It would be hollow, and taste like ashes in the mouth.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 22, 2013, 11:22:48 AM
Speaking of delays, I'm going to be travelling from early Thursday morning to late Tuesday evening and am not sure I'll have good access to the internet. I'll try to submit turns while I'm gone, but I would like an extension in case I can't.

I think the internet may be out at our house from the storm last night. (A wall cloud dropped down over our factory but nothing horrible otherwise.) If so, I won't be able to play my turn this afternoon anyway.

What's your time compared to Greenwich Mean? I'll try to bump it up to that Tues night, and then if it turns out you can play and send turns over the weekend it's no problem either way. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 22, 2013, 11:31:05 AM
I'm on Pacific time, GMT -9. I'll try to submit turns while I'm gone, but I may not be able to do so.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 22, 2013, 11:48:51 AM
Got it!

Using the math of my brain, I managed to be about 24 hours off, but in the correct direction. :) So you should be safe.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 22, 2013, 12:36:59 PM
Hi Jason,
            I may be slightly confused here but how does that work, he's already put this turn in so its the next turn that he might need an extension on. That's presuming the clock just goes back to 48 hours after you submit? But maybe its just me in which case its best i stick to playing and not try to admin a game!
cheers
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 22, 2013, 12:51:49 PM
By setting the deadline that far ahead and then (once I'm sure the system took it) going back to 48 hours, I've set up a situation where anyone could take the deadline if they have to, but we can still play as many turns as everyone manages to send in. So if it turns out Byrd can post turns this weekend after all, it won't be a problem.

Once we all send in a turn less than 48 hours from the deadline, the deadline will start moving ahead again with the normal 48 hour lag.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 22, 2013, 12:58:19 PM
Ah I see so in effect the Thursday 30th deadline becomes the deadline for all turns up to any commenced on the 28th.
Another of life's mysteries explored. Thanks for explaining that, not sure it will help me survive in the game but interesting anyway.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 23, 2013, 06:41:50 PM
Just did my turn...

Hello from the LlamaServer.
I received an e-mail from you, but unfortunately there seems to be a problem with it.
Your 2h file seems to be for a different turn number to the one the game's currently on. The 2h file is for turn 25, while the game is now on turn 26.


?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 23, 2013, 06:54:51 PM
Huh. Weird.

If the game thinks you loaded and played the turn for 25 not 26, but you're sure you saved turn 26, the best (and probably only) thing to try is to go to the Llamaserver page for the game and ask it to resend your turn. Then save that to your folder (making sure to overwrite your turn) -- are you playing the same faction in another game? If so, make sure you're saving to this game's folder not your other one! Then make your moves again and try resending your turn when you've end-turned.

Let me know how that works.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 23, 2013, 06:56:47 PM
Also, condolences to Phillipe for being put out as Abysia (or not quite out yet, but with your pretender dead and only one territory remaining you should load up your turn again, go to options, click the button at the top to set your nation to AI, confirm, end turn, and resend the turn to the server.)

I hope you're able to get into another game soon! Phobos' EA game hasn't closed yet I think, although they're close.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 23, 2013, 09:28:46 PM
Also, condolences to Phillipe for being put out as Abysia (or not quite out yet, but with your pretender dead and only one territory remaining you should load up your turn again, go to options, click the button at the top to set your nation to AI, confirm, end turn, and resend the turn to the server.)

I hope you're able to get into another game soon! Phobos' EA game hasn't closed yet I think, although they're close.

Coming back into the game with only 1 province is very doable it you have a fort on it and are holed up inside there with troops to repair. All you need is to convince another nation to attack your aggressor and you can make it back into the game.

But barring that, you are probably out of the game.

Edit: Just loaded the game. Apparently you had no provinces and died! :/
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 23, 2013, 11:59:42 PM
Apologies for that Phillipe, I think that was a war that neither of us wanted but just grew out of a missunderstanding. Still I'm glad not to have anyone hurling fireballs at me this turn.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 24, 2013, 04:52:22 AM
I think i got it sorted now...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on May 24, 2013, 07:58:56 AM
Well I suspect my end is near.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 24, 2013, 08:16:26 AM
How does the shared alliance victory work?

<redacted after reading op>

Edit: reread the op and it seems that shared alliance just is a misnomer for all of the nations agreeing on a winner or  splitting the pot so to speak and declaring everyone a winner. So basically, unless the alliance consists of all remaining nations in the game and there is agreement to stop play, only one nation can claim victory (if by faction we mean race, not an alliance faction...if faction refers to alliance my confusions remains :))
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 24, 2013, 11:07:58 AM
In principle a shared alliance victory only works if everyone else outside the alliance surrenders or is eliminated (or joins the alliance I suppose.)

The shared allies could of course elect to continue in competition among themselves afterward. No doubt a clearly largest partner would be first among the alliance, but the others could elect to try teaming up against him. Since it's a diplomatic concept external to the game there's nothing forcing partners to abide by particular results; but someone who unexpectedly breaks an SVA is likely to be distrusted in future games.

A victory point win is an independent concept, and one which could be enacted by the server; in fact the server is watching for whoever holds half the victory points simultaneously at which point it will declare a win for that player, and I don't know what happens at that point. This could obviously conflict with an SVA win, so consequently for World of GrogHawk I might not institute an automatic victory point win. However, I also mentioned in the original discussion of the victory point rules that if the game allows us to continue, the other players need not capitulate to the VP holder and might even agree to team up against him (if they haven't done so already).

Basically, unless the game forces an end, the game ends when almost everyone is annoyed or unable to play anymore. ;)


With those precepts in mind:

"Is it as easy as 'alliance' nations only publically announcing on the turn they own the required umber of capitals that they are an alliance and therefore they won the game? Sounds anti-climatic?" -- the game doesn't force an end in that case, so remaining players can elect to continue the struggle against the superior bloc.

If one player in an SVA manages to capture half the VPs, the game will automatically end, and (externally to the game) everyone in the SVA shares the victory. Whether the server allows play after that, I don't know, which is why for Groghawk I may not set an automatic end.

"Is there no limit to the alliance size or can say five large nations alliance up and instantly win the game?" -- only if no one else remains. Similarly, if someone manages to broker an SVA among all players five turns after game start, the game would logically be over, because no combatants remain.

"Or is there a requirement to publicly announce the alliance something like two years before they can win?" -- no, the alliance can be held secretly and announced at any time, just like in theory the alliance could be made at any time. Since this isn't something enforced by the game or the server, it depends on the agreement of the allies as to who is and who is not in the alliance; but then again players outside the alliance might elect to continue. Similarly, if the server detects a win condition, and the winner is part of an SVA, it is the responsibility of the players (in external diplomacy) to affirm who is and who isn't part of the alliance. If the server doesn't end the game at that point, disputes could lead to more gameplay of course. :)


In any case the point to an SVA is that multiple nations can win. (By "faction" I mean a nation's different forms from age to age, so for a game with one age I use the terms equivalently.) But they have to win by mutual agreement. That agreement can be made at the tail end of the game, or before the game even starts, or at any time in between. It isn't about all the remaining nations agreeing on one winner.

At the moment I and T'ien Chi have agreed to an SVA; I may possibly be in one with another nation, too, although to be honest I can't quite tell. ;) That's part of the overarching diplomatic game. :) It's possible that I have agreed to another three or four SVAs without announcing it publicly. It's my responsibility to juggle these things (and anyone else's responsibility to who agrees to them or is angling for them), because just like in real life there might be mutual allies of X who never intended to SVA with each other. If the members don't negotiate clearly enough with one another, the alliance could break down and someone be required to decide which 'side' they're going to take.

The game doesn't abritrate any of this, so it's up to us to work it out among ourselves. The game does apparently call a victory (since I set it up that way) for one player who holds half the VPs at the end of any turn, but I don't know for sure what happens afterward.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 24, 2013, 11:56:38 AM
From the OP:

Quote
Victory Conditions: Whoever reaches 14 victory points first. Victory points are only found in capitols, and the player must hold all 14 simultaneously. A shared victory alliance is also allowed: all remaining factions have agreed to share victory and not continue the game. (Note that as a dominating faction approaches 14 points, the remaining factions may request an extension if by alliance or alliances they still think they have a chance against someone who has probably already taken 2/3 of a very large map.)

We have 21 Nations, so per OP we must hold 14 capitals, or 2/3s of the VPs since vp are only found in capitals.

You wrote this:

Quote
A victory point win is an independent concept, and one which could be enacted by the server; in fact the server is watching for whoever holds half the victory points simultaneously at which point it will declare a win for that player, and I don't know what happens at that point. This could obviously conflict with an SVA win, so consequently for World of GrogHawk I might not institute an automatic victory point win. However, I also mentioned in the original discussion of the victory point rules that if the game allows us to continue, the other players need not capitulate to the VP holder and might even agree to team up against him (if they haven't done so already).

....

The game doesn't abritrate any of this, so it's up to us to work it out among ourselves. The game does apparently call a victory (since I set it up that way) for one player who holds half the VPs at the end of any turn, but I don't know for sure what happens afterward.

Did you set it up for half or 2/3s?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 24, 2013, 12:53:04 PM
2/3; originally it was going to be 1/2, but then I upped it to ensure that whoever held the VPs would certainly have a maximally dominant map position over all remaining players, maybe even if they were put together.

What sadder is that I actually remembered the 14, but didn't bother to recall the 21. ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 24, 2013, 01:35:39 PM

At the moment I and T'ien Chi have agreed to an SVA;

well would you look at that - its like the clouds suddenly parted and the sun beams of knowledge illuminated me in your nefarious plans!!!

Im friends with TC the same time you take over from Ulm, and the turn after you and TC declare war on me

yeah, i know, i know, your pretender is role playing pissing me off again  :P  :P  :P  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 24, 2013, 02:39:20 PM
Sorry to raise this again but not sure if anyone else has noticed this

Next turn due: 23:47 GMT on Saturday May 25th

As Eriu is currently circumnavigating the world or something could this be an issue?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 24, 2013, 03:37:25 PM
mkvics, glad you caught that. I thought the server was set up to run the extended deadline up until less than 48 hours before the deadline, but since we all got a turn in the server decided to go back to Saturday. sigh.

One of these days I'll figure out what the deadline rules are. Anyway, I've bumped it ahead to Tuesday around 11pm Pacific Time. I think.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 24, 2013, 04:00:46 PM
Looks good from here. Although now I won't get to do a turn over this extended weekend, the price of concern for one's fellow half elf I guess. Maybe we should put the clock back to how it was and all just pile into Eriu and wipe him out while he's defenceless instead ?  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 24, 2013, 04:15:19 PM
A NAP3 isn't a friendship alliance, U, it's a chivalrous politeness about alerting to hostilities early.

Considering you're playing this faction...

(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/922810_574494649238739_114077902_n.jpg)

...I'd say we're being super fair to be chivalrously polite at all. ;)

Now, if what you need is some help against local neighbors, perhaps we could work out a deal where you cede a couple of routes for us into the rest of the map, in return for an alliance agreement. Then we go annoy someone else and give you some security on your southern and western borders.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on May 24, 2013, 04:25:19 PM
Jason did you really mean to post that to public?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 24, 2013, 04:49:49 PM
Now, if what you need is some help against local neighbors, perhaps we could work out a deal where you cede a couple of routes for us into the rest of the map, in return for an alliance agreement. Then we go annoy someone else and give you some security on your southern and western borders.

turn the hell east - why do you have to come thru MY land?

FWIW youll need 6 of my territories 2 of which include forts - thats not going to happen sunbeam  :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 24, 2013, 05:56:43 PM
Thanks for pushing the deadline back. My only decent Internet right now is phone.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: parone on May 25, 2013, 12:52:52 PM
anybody seen Pratt?  he is MIA over in the LA game :-[
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 25, 2013, 11:13:08 PM
He was here a bit ago as you can see from his posts. He definitely uploaded a turn in the last few days.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 26, 2013, 07:57:30 AM
Jason did you really mean to post that to public?

All part of the diplomacy game. :) I judged it better to make the offer publicly than privately, because if his enemies know how much trouble he's in down south, they might increase the pressure north, leading to or keeping his situation problematic down south, and possibly leading to a vassalage agreement (on the notion that he might decide it's better to accept our help and survive longer at a reduced strength).

In answer to U'geek's question, btw: Eiru is related to my faction, isn't a deathy spider cult, and is rather stronger on his borders. So from any practical and role-playing perspective, I have no reason to go east compared to north. T'ien Chi is a cultured civilization, would be a tougher nut to crack, and offers not as much of an expansion route, so I'm glad we worked out our differences and teamed up for mutual victory.

FWIW youll need 6 of my territories 2 of which include forts - thats not going to happen sunbeam  :)

Mm-hmm... {scribbling notes for future reference} That fits some other things I suspected. Thx! :)

Re the LA game: yeah, I thought I had sent in my turn already, so I was super-surprised to learn I was about to stale (again -- I had staled earlier this week from a storm having blown out our internet connection at home). Ysk saved me by extending the time a bit, and I promptly sent in two turns. And then promptly resent my 2nd turn a couple of times for tweaking.  ;D

I really should have spent that time last night / early morning testing whether Groghawk was going to work. But I'll try to work on that today. Sorry.  :-[
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 26, 2013, 09:36:51 AM
Mm-hmm... {scribbling notes for future reference} That fits some other things I suspected. Thx! :)

Smack his bum, Geek!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 26, 2013, 10:37:07 AM
As a reminder to everyone to make sure you submitted a turn, the most fool proof way is to check the webpage 30-60 minutes (usually just 5-10 minutes) after you submit your turn - you can do this from your smart phone even.

You can also look for an email, but with so many repeated turns, and if you're in multiple games or sent in revised turns, and the unreliability of email at times, you can make some mistakes!

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 26, 2013, 11:14:23 AM
Mm-hmm... {scribbling notes for future reference} That fits some other things I suspected. Thx! :)

Smack his bum, Geek!

Its coming
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 26, 2013, 02:42:31 PM
My bums are certainly coming!

(.... ....... that... sounded so much less dirty in my head before I typed it...)

Anyway, no smacking before the NAP3 runs out, I promise.

Relatedly, I wasn't behind that province of yours down south which just went back indie. (That would violate the NAP3 agreement.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 26, 2013, 02:56:34 PM
My bums are certainly coming!

(.... ....... that... sounded so much less dirty in my head before I typed it...)

Anyway, no smacking before the NAP3 runs out, I promise.

Relatedly, I wasn't behind that province of yours down south which just went back indie. (That would violate the NAP3 agreement.)

no but ill bet my ass youre in it now!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 27, 2013, 12:56:28 PM
Is Vlam (Agartha) out of town as well? Or did something go wrong with his turn submission?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 27, 2013, 02:31:38 PM
Yes, I think Vlam was going to be out of town, too.

Actually, U'geek, I didn't move into it, mainly because I wasn't quite ready to, and partly because I thought it might even be a trap encouraging me to split my forces before I was ready.

So.... does that mean your ass is now mine since you bet it?  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 28, 2013, 10:45:54 AM
Thank you very much for this extra time!!!

Yes, I guess that dom3 is this kind of game where you keep learning after years and years.
I'm trying stuff in this one :)

This is the last post I found for Vlam? Has he contacted anyone about leaving/when he was going to get back? I couldn't find anything on his mentioning of being out of town. There was discussion of him possibly going AI. But that was almost ten days ago.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 28, 2013, 07:14:02 PM
I'm back from vacation and look!  A new turn, how delightful ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 28, 2013, 10:52:47 PM
The hosting time interval is messed up. It's set for 5 days - current next turn is due June 3rd. Today is May 29th.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 29, 2013, 07:46:15 AM
Message from Vanheim

To the peoples of the world:

We know this announcement does not really matter in the grand scheme of world events however this matter we wish to disclose is of vital importance to our people. 

Earlier this week our security forces were in pursuit of a spy in our lands.  Due to the sensitivity of the event we cannot disclose which territory this spy was observed in but the concerned parties know well enough I suspect.  The spy was caught by our security forces but somehow managed to escape.  See figure 1 below:

(http://www.parkcircus.com/assets/0004/7169/ti104185_large.jpg?1341621064)
Figure 1: Vanheim security forces questioning suspicious babe

Vanheim wishes to announce that we understand clearly what will follow in the coming days.  We will not be easily vanquished that much I promise.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled program.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 29, 2013, 08:25:23 AM
lol, who chose blond 1950s actresses as their nation?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 29, 2013, 08:26:43 AM
Well I thought I had already reset the clock to automatically go back to 48 hours, but apparently not!

I just tried again, but of course we'll have to wait at least three days to see if it took.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 29, 2013, 08:28:14 AM
lol, who chose blond 1950s actresses as their nation?

Are the Amazons in Middle Age? Maybe that's a clue. :)

(Or someone summoned or hired some stealthy mythological babes. That's how those women got into your base in the Big Pretender game, U'geek.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 29, 2013, 08:29:34 AM
lol - i remember it fondly - a most confusing turn

it was so much more subtle and sweet than 580 demons chewing thru the walls!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 29, 2013, 09:20:40 AM
Especially since they were a bit precooked and not really ready to rock and roll. But I was in my final desperation so I figured what the hell I might as well run the experiment and try.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 29, 2013, 05:33:49 PM
The Lake of Steam Accord
(An Atlantis-Vanheim Defensive Pact)

Atlantis guarantees the independence of Vanheim. Vanheim guarantees the independence of Atlantis.

Any nation declaring war upon Atlantis or Vanheim shall be declaring war upon both.


Any nation currently possessing a non-aggression pact-3 with either Vanheim and/or Atlantis will be subject to immediate reprisal if it attacks either Atlantis or Vanheim, without being subject to the standard 3 turn wait before hostilities provision of the nap.

This treaty does not apply if Atlantis or Vanheim is the aggressor and declares war first upon another nation.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 29, 2013, 05:40:36 PM
Ok so I have forged some artifacts, and am in the process of forging some more as we speak.  My question is now, having forged them, do I give them to the commander that I believe can make the best use of them?  Should I be using the commander that I want to use them to do the forging, or should I have a dedicated commander that I use to churn out artifacts?  I will have more questions about artifacts later, but they will actually depend on the answers that I get to these questions. 

Heh.  This map is so massive.  I can only imagine the end-game battles that will result.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 29, 2013, 06:05:09 PM
Re: the Lake of Steam Accord -- I shall have to remember that. ;)

Re: forging artifacts -- who forges the artifacts is completely independent of who uses them. There is no inherent connection between the forger and an artifact. Since artifacts can only be forged at labs, they go immediately into the lab without affecting the forger at all, so for example you needn't worry about a commander being horror marked by various astral artifacts, until you bestow the artifact. (A mule commander for transporting artifacts somewhere outside a lab will naturally pick up effects and curses the same way as anyone else.)

Absolutely give them to the commander who makes the most use of them. Most commanders will be unable to forge any artifacts at all, for example. The only reason I can think of for having the same commander forge the artifact you want him to use, aside from being the only person available and/or capable of doing so, is to help keep track of who gets what -- and that's purely a subjective point, since the artifact goes in the shared lab equipment regardless!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 29, 2013, 06:25:09 PM
The Lake of Steam Accord
(An Atlantis-Vanheim Defensive Pact)

The people's of Atlantis and Vanheim sign pact!!

Early this evening an agreement was reached between the two great nations straddling the Lake of Steam.  The local populace of Vanheims' capital as well as the villagers in the country side breathed a sigh of relief at the news.  Von W8taminuten, the leader of Vanheim, was unavailable for comment but his prophet, 1st Byelorussian Front, had a statement prepared for the public:

"It is with great joy that this agreement was made between our nations.  Vanheim has always been fascinated with the oceans and our treaty with Atlantis goes beyond the mutual aid our peoples can provide one another.  We look forward to an age of economic prosperity as we trade our delicious Vanheim beef steaks for yummy Atlantean crab cakes. 

Let it be known that Vanheim recognizes Atlantis's independence and that Atlantis recognizes Vanheim's independence.  We pledge to honor our treaty by aiding Atlantis should it be attacked by any enemy.  Vanheim is thankful for Atlantis's pledge to return the favor should we find our nation under assault.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen."

At that the prophet of Vanheim left the plinth from which he addressed his people and Atlantis in Vanheim square and returned to his study.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 29, 2013, 06:30:38 PM
Ok so I have forged some artifacts, and am in the process of forging some more as we speak.  My question is now, having forged them, do I give them to the commander that I believe can make the best use of them?  Should I be using the commander that I want to use them to do the forging, or should I have a dedicated commander that I use to churn out artifacts?  I will have more questions about artifacts later, but they will actually depend on the answers that I get to these questions. 

Heh.  This map is so massive.  I can only imagine the end-game battles that will result.

JP is right - there is a thread in the dom 3 section about what to build and why and what to do with it when you have - including some standard set ups for thugs - bane with fire sword and golden shield and horror helm - plenty of these are very nice on the battlefield but it won't be the banes forging them
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 29, 2013, 06:32:21 PM
The Lake of Steam Accord
(An Atlantis-Vanheim Defensive Pact)

The people's of Atlantis and Vanheim sign pact!!

Early this evening an agreement was reached between the two great nations straddling the Lake of Steam.  The local populace of Vanheims' capital as well as the villagers in the country side breathed a sigh of relief at the news.  Von W8taminuten, the leader of Vanheim, was unavailable for comment but his prophet, 1st Byelorussian Front, had a statement prepared for the public:

"It is with great joy that this agreement was made between our nations.  Vanheim has always been fascinated with the oceans and our treaty with Atlantis goes beyond the mutual aid our peoples can provide one another.  We look forward to an age of economic prosperity as we trade our delicious Vanheim beef steaks for yummy Atlantean crab cakes. 

Let it be known that Vanheim recognizes Atlantis's independence and that Atlantis recognizes Vanheim's independence.  We pledge to honor our treaty by aiding Atlantis should it be attacked by any enemy.  Vanheim is thankful for Atlantis's pledge to return the favor should we find our nation under assault.

Thank you ladies and gentlemen."

At that the prophet of Vanheim left the plinth from which he addressed his people and Atlantis in Vanheim square and returned to his study.

Ill hang around for a bit - the offers are bound to come flooding in
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 29, 2013, 07:23:24 PM
The people of Ulm join our ally Atlantis in recognizing the independence of the nation of Vanheim, and urge our other allies to promptly welcome this valiant people into alliance, so that peace may be increased and our peoples prosper in joy and iron!

To this end we like Atlantis pledge not to wage war on Vanheim. We hope Vanheim will return this gesture by not waging war on our mutual allies, the T'ien Chi and the Eriu; or if such hostilities have already begun, let them cease and a fair peace brokered. Ulm stands ready to arbitrate as shared allies of mutual parties in this matter, if necessary.

(Hey, it's like the League of Nations before WW2! {g})


We urge the people of Machaka to be patient a little longer until our glorious alliance can stamp out the taint of death and blood (and also the spiders) oppressing your nation, and bring the benefits of civilization and culture.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 30, 2013, 01:54:55 AM
Ashdod feels the "League of nations" are dancing around the the real issue.

Ashdod and Vanheim also have a defense pact, form quite an early time.
Also,
Ashdod is most likely Eridu's next target.

Ashdod was infact already invaded, with Eridu marching on the newly besieged Pangea capital.
A war in which Ashdod was not the aggressor, rather invaded by Pangea.

As far as Ashdod is concerned there is indeed a war between the Vanheim-Ashdod Giant-Coalition and the Eridu horde.
With only goals are to secure national borders and punish Pan-war criminals who hide in Pangea.
They were seducing our little folks women, and turning them against their own husbands!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 30, 2013, 02:45:39 AM
So errr when there's just atlantis, ulm, eriu and tien chi left - then what?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 30, 2013, 04:32:16 AM
Ashdod feels the "League of nations" are dancing around the the real issue.

Ashdod and Vanheim also have a defense pact, form quite an early time.
Also,
Ashdod is most likely Eridu's next target.

Ashdod was infact already invaded, with Eridu marching on the newly besieged Pangea capital.
A war in which Ashdod was not the aggressor, rather invaded by Pangea.

As far as Ashdod is concerned there is indeed a war between the Vanheim-Ashdod Giant-Coalition and the Eridu horde.
With only goals are to secure national borders and punish Pan-war criminals who hide in Pangea.
They were seducing our little folks women, and turning them against their own husbands!

It's true.

Vanheim and Ashdod have been working together and have a mutual defense pact since the beginning of the game.  When Vanheim entered the mutual defense pact with Atlantis it was with the intent to obtain protection against Eriu aggression.  Aggression you say?  Yes aggression. 

When Vanheim compares the current turn to the previous two turns we notice a significant troop Eriu buildup on our borders.  The spy caught in our lands was testing our defenses in a province directly opposite a province containing a sizable Eriu army. 

Vanheim will honor Ashdod and come to it's aid should it be attacked.  Vanheim does not recognize Ulm's wish to leave Eriu alone but only if Eriu strikes at Ashdod or Vanheim.  If we can all live in peace we will honor Ulm's wishes and respect Eriu but both Ashdod and Vanheim must not be attacked by Eriu. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 30, 2013, 04:50:20 AM
If we can all live in peace we will honor Ulm's wishes and respect Eriu

awesome idea, disband all the armies, withdraw to the labs and just research all the magic paths, then just dont bother doing anything in the turns and well keep rolling over till, you know 2021 or Dom 4 comes out

 :o
 ???
 :-\
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 30, 2013, 04:54:27 AM
We urge the people of Machaka to be patient a little longer until our glorious alliance can stamp out the taint of death and blood (and also the spiders) oppressing your nation, and bring the benefits of civilization and culture.

just because you have a poncey, made up, fancy sounding alliance  it doesnt disguise or detract from the fact that youre attacking me without any provocation

if you need to pretend to yourself its for some noble cause or because the gods told you to thats fine - in the end - you attacked me, if that makes you guilty please dont pretend The Big Girls Alliance made me do it is a valid excuse - youre the aggressor, youre the attacker and im the victim

for shame
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ubercat on May 30, 2013, 07:03:04 AM
So THAT'S where those huge Machackan armies that were aggressively victimizing me went!  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 30, 2013, 08:33:45 AM
We urge the people of Machaka to be patient a little longer until our glorious alliance can stamp out the taint of death and blood (and also the spiders) oppressing your nation, and bring the benefits of civilization and culture.

just because you have a poncey, made up, fancy sounding alliance  it doesnt disguise or detract from the fact that youre attacking me without any provocation

if you need to pretend to yourself its for some noble cause or because the gods told you to thats fine - in the end - you attacked me, if that makes you guilty please dont pretend The Big Girls Alliance made me do it is a valid excuse - youre the aggressor, youre the attacker and im the victim

for shame

-1

Its called RP, and its more than welcome!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 30, 2013, 08:41:26 AM
And being unhappy that you were attacked isn't RP?
Would the nation being attacked  celebrate or threaten and complain?

 I realize that his statement is more towards the user,...but it will fit as RP as well.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 30, 2013, 08:42:03 AM
its tosh

where does it end - a 6 person alliance? then what? yay we all won - group hug, gather round everyone we defeated the forces of the developer and made joint peace in his fantasy wargame, thatll show them not to make violent fantasy battle games? Blood Magic 9, pfffft no way - i want to pull bunnies from my hat and make flowers come out of the end of my sleeve

but hey we're role playing so thats ok

im role playing someone who doesnt understand the point of 4 nations joining together to defeat everyone else and then just sitting for eternity never finishing the game
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 30, 2013, 08:44:24 AM
We urge the people of Machaka to be patient a little longer until our glorious alliance can stamp out the taint of death and blood (and also the spiders) oppressing your nation, and bring the benefits of civilization and culture.

just because you have a poncey, made up, fancy sounding alliance  it doesnt disguise or detract from the fact that youre attacking me without any provocation

if you need to pretend to yourself its for some noble cause or because the gods told you to thats fine - in the end - you attacked me, if that makes you guilty please dont pretend The Big Girls Alliance made me do it is a valid excuse - youre the aggressor, youre the attacker and im the victim

for shame

-1

Its called RP, and its more than welcome!

like i said, its dressing up aggression in a fancy cloak and a plastic wand and shifting the blame of your intentions in the game to some made up crap

im all for role playing, hiding from the fact youve attacked someone because of a made up excuse is s****
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 30, 2013, 08:45:33 AM
Yeah I have to agree,....so many players forming an alliance is kinda lame.....makes me consider only joining games with no diplomacy allowed.  BUT this is my first MP game,....SO...Lets se how it plays out. If it goes the way I expect,...yeah no more games with alliances allowed for me.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 30, 2013, 08:47:47 AM
Yeah I have to agree,....so many players forming an alliance is kinda lame.....makes me consider only joining games with no diplomacy allowed.  BUT this is my first MP game,....SO...Lets se how it plays out. If it goes the way I expect,...yeah no more games with alliances allowed for me.

you beat me to it - i didnt know why the last game i joined was no diplomacy at all, no contact allowed and youre kicked if discovered - now i do
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 30, 2013, 09:02:32 AM
Well apparently everyone has decided that Eriu is the enemy. And W8taminute, what a weaselly scoundrel you are. You come at me with all these overtures of peace, and meanwhile you're secretly negotiating an alliance with Atlantis, and already had one with Ashdod. No worries though. I'll crush all you knuckledraggers at once.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 30, 2013, 09:05:51 AM
Well apparently everyone has decided that Eriu is the enemy. And W8taminute, what a weaselly scoundrel you are. You come at me with all these overtures of peace, and meanwhile you're secretly negotiating an alliance with Atlantis, and already had one with Ashdod. No worries though. I'll crush all you knuckledraggers at once.

join the club, apparently our randomly allocated geographical location has upset some people because they dont get to win easily
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 30, 2013, 09:30:48 AM
Im not complaining,....Agartha has me cornered,...and it appears he is stronger at the moment, but not strong enough to actually worry me,...just enough that I see its going to make us both very weak if I try to push through him.....

 So it doesn't effect me,...but I have been wondering how being able to from alliances is going to work out. I was,..and still am, concerned that it was going to make the actual gameplay much less important than populari.......I mean forming alliances. Typically allowing alliances lets you find who are friends or know each othrer more than the rest of the players......because that's what alliances in wargames usually end up boiling down to, who knows who.....and why they are usually only allowed if the game itself has mechanics for them,....so it cant be abused.

  The game undercover joined that did not allow alliances,......I remember the guy creating it saying the reason he wanted no diplomacy was because diplomacy played too large a part in the games that allowed them.

 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 30, 2013, 11:16:05 AM
My analysis of diplomacy:
-In free for all games in general, diplomacy is often the most important factor.
-In a dominions 3 ffa games, per veterans from the Sharpnel forum, diplomacy is one of the most important factors.
-In a dominions 3 ffa game that allows for shared alliance victories, I believe that diplomacy is probably the single most important thing you can do.

Diplomacy, of course, is interrelated to the actions you take in the game. You can't cast a few of the armageddon-type global enchantments and expect to not be seen as a target for all nations (Utterdark, Burden of Time are the most popular ones).  You can't expect to expand and block multiple nations in and expect to not been seen as a target for that group of nations. You can't be lagging in research, income, and military and expect to not be seen as a juicy nation to gobble up by your neighbors.

All in all, as long as one realizes diplomacy is a huge part of the game, it makes for some very interesting games.

------

p.s. And for the record, I think Jason and the others use the term ally loosely. We should probably distinguish between "allies" and "shared alliance victory allies." I have not agreed to a shared alliance victory with anyone. Of course, given the rules that a shared alliance victory can be made at any time, and given my distaste to managing huge empires of over 75+ territorties, if I last till endgame I will likely extend a shared alliance victory offer to other players.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 30, 2013, 11:31:54 AM
You gotta look at it from my point of view before calling me a weaselly scoundrel, which I agree with by the way for reasons I'm about to explain.  But first, it's all good guys, I'm not holding any grudges, I'm just role playing a story from the point of view of a 3rd rate nation.

Now to explain my weaselly skullduggery.  I will try to show that there is nothing personal here, I'm not trying to insult anyone in real life.  I hope we're all mature enough to understand that this is just a game.  In no way am I going to hold a grudge with anyone involved in our game for the rest of my life.  That's just crazy. 

Hello my name is W8taminute and I'm going to play a strategy game to win it.  Am I going to be a richard weed about it and screw people over?  No.  I will however engage in misdirection, diplomatic honesty as well as perhaps in some cases the with-holding of certain key facts, in order to gain an advantage over a militarily superior foe.  I suggest you read Sun Tzu's "The Art of War" or Machiavelli's "The Prince".

Perhaps you will crush all three of us combined but it is precisely that reason you should expect me to play like a scumbag because I want to win baby!!!  Had we been of equal military power I would have come out and declared war formally and we could have duked it out like gentlemen, but puhleez exqueeze me for being a little guy who will do whatever it takes to win or in this case just to survive.




In all honesty however, this is a fun game and part of the enjoyment is the diplomacy.  You guys are all good players and remember I am not holding any grudges here.  I really do want to play with you all again when we're done with this game. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 30, 2013, 11:51:36 AM
So errr when there's just atlantis, ulm, eriu and tien chi left - then what?

We either declare joint victory or we agree to start slugging it out among ourselves. Kind of depends on how we feel about it at the time I guess. If by then we want to go play another game, that'll be as good an excuse as any, but if we want to continue I'm sure we'll come up with some reason to do that, too.

Quote from: undercovergeek
just because you have a poncey, made up, fancy sounding alliance  it doesnt disguise or detract from the fact that youre attacking me without any provocation

Just like real diplomacy!  ;D (Although someone who takes the spidery nation should really expect to be attacked without provocation because spiders. In fact, someone who wants to play the game without any diplomacy at all should really really REAAALLY expect to be attacked without provocation. ;) )

Quote from: Ogaburan
Ashdod feels the "League of nations" are dancing around the the real issue.

Didn't the LoN result in WW2? I'd say the comparison is quite apt.  8)

As in real life, alliances work better when there's only one or two or maybe three members. (Note the "one". ;) ) After that, the confusion and grudges come out, because two sides at war suddenly find themselves in an alliance with nations who are similarly allied with each other.

World War One triggered from a ton of alliances in a fragile web mousetrapping off.

Quote from: ScottWAR
The game undercover joined that did not allow alliances,......I remember the guy creating it saying the reason he wanted no diplomacy was because diplomacy played too large a part in the games that allowed them.

That is an entirely feasible and accurate observation. If players don't want diplomacy for that reason, they should agree no diplomacy on the front end.

I will note as an aside that I tried to set up the game so that the water players, who have disproportionate advantages, should be banned from any alliances (myself included as Oceania), but since a number of players wanted those alliances to be possible, and no one agreed against it, I allowed water alliances. So the first thing out of the gate, once I was back in the game as Ulm? -- forge an alliance with Atlantis. I have no regrets. :) {waving at the Kraken as he crawls past my pretender this past turn!}

Quote from: Undercovergeek
im role playing someone who doesn't understand the point of 4 nations joining together to defeat everyone else and then just sitting for eternity never finishing the game

I'd say beating the developers themselves rather counts as a point.  ;D


Having said all that: I do feel sorry for U'geek, because this is clearly a case of the stronger attacking the weaker, and I wouldn't want to be in his place. Which is why I wouldn't do that in real life. The Golden Rule isn't that he who has the gold rules, and the Golden Rule isn't that there is no Golden Rule.

However, by the same token neither am I going to be much swayed by complaints that the stronger are beating up on the weaker from someone who wants to play a game which is totally devoted to the idea of the stronger beating the weaker. ;) One way to get stronger in-game is to develop alliances. Alliances have a tendency to fracture on the other hand due to the nature of the game. If players manage to get through the game and survive to be the last ones standing in a shared victory alliance (particularly in a very large game like this), then if they want to put down their swords and put away their blood magic and fondle teddy bears, that's their choice -- they earned the license to end the game however they choose because they were more successful at getting stronger and effectively applying that strength, just as if a single player managed to work his way up to astral 9 and wished his opponents out of the game. (...not that I'm attempting to do that in this or any other game...)

Social Darwinism isn't any coherent base for morality, and this is a game of social Darwinism. Mutations in the environment have occurred, and natural selection is about to follow. It's fair in a purely neutrally mechanical and impersonal sense; it isn't fair ethically in the sense of {dikaiosunę} fair-togetherness, except maybe in the sense that it's fair for people in favor of that to put out of the game people who don't want fair-togetherness in the game. (And even that wouldn't be fair unless the goal in doing so was to bring even them into {dikaiosunę} eventually, so that there's no hopelessly final defeat for them. But now I'm digressing into metaphysics. ;) )


I'm not saying any of this to gloat either. For one thing, we haven't succeeded in taking out Machaka and still might not! For another thing, I myself was put out of the game soon after the starting bell, and had no guarantee of being able to get back in, despite going to all the trouble of setting up the game. Was that {dikaiosunę} fair?--no, but that's how things rolled out. My opponent took his opportunities, played them appropriately for his goals, I did my best to fight back, and I lost. That's the game -- I have no grudge against him. He beat me fair and square. Had I won, I'd be RPing a pretender (for this game) who wouldn't care about alliances and wouldn't enter into any, preferring to war against the world instead. (Thus by the way handicapping his position for the sake of people on land playing against him.) He most likely would have been rolled out of the game by an alliance eventually.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 30, 2013, 12:00:39 PM
I will crush you all!

Oh sorry, wrong game!  I'm nice in this one. :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 30, 2013, 12:00:50 PM
Social Darwinism isn't any coherent base for morality, and this is a game of social Darwinism. Mutations in the environment have occurred, and natural selection is about to follow. It's fair in a purely neutrally mechanical and impersonal sense; it isn't fair ethically in the sense of {dikaiosunę} fair-togetherness, except maybe in the sense that it's fair for people in favor of that to put out of the game people who don't want fair-togetherness in the game. (And even that wouldn't be fair unless the goal in doing so was to bring even them into {dikaiosunę} eventually, so that there's no hopelessly final defeat for them. But now I'm digressing into metaphysics. ;) )

heres some diplomacy for you - total bollocks

you pretend to the play the game in the spirit of the game - the spirit of the game as you so accurately pointed out in the 'trading gems' discussion is to be the one and only pretender, there isnt a chance in hell (game spirit upheld) that 2 or more of the 'i must be the only winner here' Pretenders is going to sit round the fire and discuss sharing victory - thats you and any number of other people warping the games interface for your own ends whilst pretend to role play the game and your pretender. Theres no accurate role play here, you are a god, the one true god, the only god, your believers believe there is only you - there is no 'hey populace of wherever - theres actually 4 gods and we all get on so well were having a picnic and ruling all at the same time'

booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

this has nothing to do with Machaka, me, you or any games weve played or will play BTW - its about pretending to be something youre not to win the game
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 30, 2013, 12:14:16 PM
My analysis of diplomacy:
-In free for all games in general, diplomacy is often the most important factor.
-In a dominions 3 ffa games, per veterans from the Sharpnel forum, diplomacy is one of the most important factors.
-In a dominions 3 ffp.s. And for the record, I think Jason and the others use the term ally loosely. We should probably distinguish between "allies" and "shared alliance victory allies." I have not agreed to a shared alliance victory with anyone.

Well, it isn't that I'm using it loosely, I just tend to press in favor of an SVA, even when the actual status of the alliance is unclear. Part of the diplomacy game in itself.

For example, by suggesting publicly that we are in one I (1) gave people reasons to act in particular ways toward us; and (2) opened an opportunity for you to clarify our alliance status either publicly or privately (according to how you saw best fit your goals).

I took a bit of a risk that I might be embarrassed if you publicly declined we were in an SVA, but I got more information out of the exchange than I had before, and I'll adjust appropriately. :)

But regardless if someone denies being in an SVA with me after I've prompted for that option, obviously angling for as many SVAs as possible is (as you observe) the single most important strategy of a Dom3 game. Balancing that with role-playing isn't easy: is Ulm (a notorious anti-magic faction) likely to go for any alliances at all, and if so under what restrictions or rationales? Since Ulm took a strong rainbow mage pretender, I infer that their stance against magic is more of an ideal goal than a zealous stance on principle; but even then they aren't likely to ally with strong death and/or blood magic users. (Especially since the pretender has neither of those types.) I expect they respect orderly culture, especially orderly human culture, and most especially orderly human culture related to their own respected history.

So while an SVA with Atlantis would be ideal (and I'm still angling for that in various ways), it's a bit more of an alliance of convenience (even if an SVA) than with T'ien Chi, and Eriu. I was never going to ally with Machaka, and while I'm willing to ally with Vanheim (and btw an alliance of recognized independence is basically the same as an SVA, Elitesix, since if you start fighting him later you're denying his right to independence and so breaking your alliance), I probably won't intentionally ally with Jotenheim. Yet again I'm willing to ally with Atlantis, but wouldn't have allied with my previous pretender in Oceania (because he was going for a strong death magic build) and won't ally with R'yleh.

On that basis, Ulm does see Machaka as a threat, even though Machaka has not been aggressive toward us yet: Machaka is a nation of deathy blood spider worshipers. OF COURSE they're a threat! Ulm is honorable enough to hold to the letter of the previously negotiated NAP3, and allow Machaka fair warning before hostilities start, but Machaka was always going to be a target sooner or later. And if I'm surrounded by allies, well I'll just work on building up my infrastructure, providing aid to my allies on the front lines, and maybe look for ways to snag an expansionary territory in an enemy of my allies by long distance effects.

(Had Gamin survived, I would have played him very differently.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 30, 2013, 12:43:02 PM
you pretend to the play the game in the spirit of the game - the spirit of the game as you so accurately pointed out in the 'trading gems' discussion is to be the one and only pretender, there isnt a chance in hell (game spirit upheld) that 2 or more of the 'i must be the only winner here' Pretenders is going to sit round the fire and discuss sharing victory - thats you and any number of other people warping the games interface for your own ends whilst pretend to role play the game and your pretender.

On one hand, I did say we might decide to fight it out after everyone else is down. That's a typical supervillain plotline.

On the other hand, there's nothing stopping many of these pretenders from just being mages who aren't that ambitious. Flavor text only dictates so far; what a person chooses and what they do is what defines them.

On yet the other hand, there's also nothing preventing some of the mages from deciding that the next Pantokrator ought to be of a different character than previous ones, and so struggling to win by acclamation and rational mutual agreement rather than by total annihilation of all other pretenders.


As to having one player with the power and authority to arbitrate trade agreements: what exactly would all the players agreeing to this from the outset be fighting for? It's one thing to start the game with the possibility of alliance if a player so chooses along the way, and so to share power among themselves if that's what they choose; it's another thing for ALL the players to agree from the outset they WON'T be fighting over who has the greatest power and authority among themselves. It would be like ALL the players agreeing from the outset to be in the same alliance. Be that as it may, my main complaint about doing it was that, as a matter of practical fact, it would be impossible for me to investigate claimed breaches in any decisive way.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 30, 2013, 12:56:58 PM
Flavor text only dictates so far; what a person chooses and what they do is what defines them.

"The object of Dominions 3 is to be the last pretender standing, at which point you
ascend to godhood and lord it over the world of Dominions, which by that time has been
pretty much trashed by all the fighting, arcane magicks, and whatnot."

this is the only relevant 'flavour text'

it should have been pointed out at the start of the game if we were playing the peace loving, hippy, hand holding mod

i dont know whether you dont understand what im saying or youre choosing to ignore it - craptastic alliances to defeat someone who would defeat you on your own is not in the spirit of the game, it is clear it wasnt written that way, above are the designers words, to deviate from that is to make this a game it wasnt and drag us all along for your ride
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 30, 2013, 01:20:19 PM
Flavor text only dictates so far; what a person chooses and what they do is what defines them.

"The object of Dominions 3 is to be the last pretender standing, at which point you
ascend to godhood and lord it over the world of Dominions, which by that time has been
pretty much trashed by all the fighting, arcane magicks, and whatnot."

this is the only relevant 'flavour text'

it should have been pointed out at the start of the game if we were playing the peace loving, hippy, hand holding mod

i dont know whether you dont understand what im saying or youre choosing to ignore it - craptastic alliances to defeat someone who would defeat you on your own is not in the spirit of the game, it is clear it wasnt written that way, above are the designers words, to deviate from that is to make this a game it wasnt and drag us all along for your ride

Oh god, can you be any more bitter?

You do realize you are plying a ~30man game using a map of Faerum?
Vanilla Dominions 3 was quite clearly not meant to be played in such an environment competitively.

The writing was on the door...
Quite literally!

Quote
Victory Conditions: Whoever reaches 14 victory points first. Victory points are only found in capitols, and the player must hold all 14 simultaneously. A shared victory alliance is also allowed: all remaining factions have agreed to share victory and not continue the game. (Note that as a dominating faction approaches 14 points, the remaining factions may request an extension if by alliance or alliances they still think they have a chance against someone who has probably already taken 2/3 of a very large map.)

The door you opened willingly.
Too late to change the rules of the game.
Keep arguing with the admin about how his game should or should not be played... makes allot of sense.
If you dont enjoy this type of game, dont join any more of them in the future.
Why make a scene coz you are ganked, deal with it and show more sportsmanship about it.

Im not in the best positions myself, but I do find all the diplomacy and intrigue very entertaining.
Even my early war with Pangea, who I think wrote one of the funniest replies ive ever read after i offered him a NAP;
Thanks for your treatsy sir. We are poor and simple minded harvesters of earth's bounties and have rocks between our ears. We have precious need of toiletries and your treatsy shall come  in handy when our misaligned bowels push out those precious gems your are seeking...Wait, sorry, those were only false rumors, we don't shtz out gems...That would have been cool though ay.

We do not negotiate with false gods for there is only one, and he is, umm what's our god again, Morgule....yes, I think that's right... Morgule. The one true ruler of the land. Well he's more of demigod than a real god...and even that is incorrect because he's not human. He's more of a pet who thinks all should catter to him....slobbers all the time, and gets these awful afflictions whenever one of those mean people poke him with those pointy sticks. He doesn't like magic much either, with those evil hocruxes and curses.

As you can see, those who worship Morgule have terrible humor. Good, well mannered, educated, and gracious neighbors such as yourself, would soon be wroth with such unpleasant, miss-mannered companions such as ourselves.

We thank you for your time, for of all loses, time is the most irrecuparable, for it can never be redeemed.

Will probably lose the game, but the story about the Invading "vermin form the forest" will stay with me for quite some time.

This is the kind of game i singed up for, and this is the kind of game i got.
Wining is just a bonus.

Im not part of said alliance, but i see no problem in 2, 3 or 4 gods "wining" in a 20man game.
Polytheism rules! And is quite thematic IMHO.

As for "craptastic alliances to defeat someone who would defeat you on your own is not in the spirit of the game", I wholeheartedly disagree with you.
Check some LA nations, its quite clearly designed so that one nation will be stronger then others at certain points of the game.
You live in a dreamworld if you think people will just sit there in a line while you butcher them one by one, or aggressively expand early game.

I think giving a thematic reasoning behind whats basically "im going to try and kill you in this game" is more then welcome!

Cheers,
Oga
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 30, 2013, 01:28:23 PM
it should have been pointed out at the start of the game if we were playing the peace loving, hippy, hand holding mod

Victory Conditions: Whoever reaches 14 victory points first. Victory points are only found in capitols, and the player must hold all 14 simultaneously. A shared victory alliance is also allowed: all remaining factions have agreed to share victory and not continue the game. (Note that as a dominating faction approaches 14 points, the remaining factions may request an extension if by alliance or alliances they still think they have a chance against someone who has probably already taken 2/3 of a very large map.)
Diplomacy Policy: None; do as you wish, keeping in mind consequences in future games, as well as later in that game (if you stab someone early, any alliance later in that game is likely to prove less trustworthy). Trades should be fulfilled

To be fair, I can't prove it was there from the beginning, but it was definitely included before the game started and I recall it being there early. We discussed various alliance types and how to go about doing them (since the game engine doesn't allow them) as early as April 8 (five days after I started the thread) in reply to Claes. By "we" I mean "you and me together". You didn't complain back then that any kind of alliance, especially SVA, was foreign to the intention of the designers.

A couple of days later I was suggesting that water nations (including myself) should be required to play contra mundum (against the world, no alliances allowed) in order to help balance out our advantages. That notion wasn't generally accepted.

The same day (10th) was when I set up the VP capitol win condition, so the discussion of alliances in-game and how to go about them occurred before the VP portion of the Victory Condition was set up.

Claes was announcing his intention to form strategic alliances on the 11th.

On the 12th shortly before gamestart, while explaining to completely new players what to expect, I mentioned they shouldn't feel bad about having little or no diplomacy early since the game is set up to take some time for discovery (with moderately strong buffering independents), but that they could already forming alliances pre-game for various reasons.


So yes it was discussed before game start and you didn't have a problem at that time.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 30, 2013, 01:48:15 PM

But regardless if someone denies being in an SVA with me after I've prompted for that option, obviously angling for as many SVAs as possible is (as you observe) the single most important strategy of a Dom3 game. Balancing that with role-playing isn't easy: is Ulm (a notorious anti-magic faction) likely to go for any alliances at all, and if so under what restrictions or rationales? Since Ulm took a strong rainbow mage pretender, I infer that their stance against magic is more of an ideal goal than a zealous stance on principle; but even then they aren't likely to ally with strong death and/or blood magic users. (Especially since the pretender has neither of those types.) I expect they respect orderly culture, especially orderly human culture, and most especially orderly human culture related to their own respected history.

....

(Had Gamin survived, I would have played him very differently.)

Just a role-playing observation that I'm sharing because you substituted in for Ulm:

Role-playing Pretenders in Dominions 3, in my opinion, comes from two main areas: (1) The nation's preferences (2) The pretender's preferences. Sometimes these two things clash, sometimes they are in sync, sometimes one dominates the other. Notice how in your discussions of role-playing the Oceania pretender Gamin, your personality and persona stem purely from the Gamin personality. Backstab, Untrustworthy, etc. When you look at the nation of Oceania, they don't even have stealthy troops. It's clearly a case where the pretender's personality drives the role-playing.

The reason I point this is out is that with Ulm, it seems as though you're ignoring your pretender's preferences a bit, at least in your public discussions. Sure, Ulm is basically anti-magic humans. But there's more to the equation. I observe that your domain scales have Death 3. There is something very dark about the God that Ulm currently worships, such that the land is dying. Babies are stillborn. The trees are withering. The young succumb to minor illnesses more often than they should, and being middle aged is a death sentence. The air literally saps the life out of people, plants, and creatures in your land. (If your Pretender doesn't have death or blood magic, perhaps this is because of water magic and the cold). This is fairly significant in my opinion, and would imply that in the current incarnation of the Middle Age Ulm, a truely dark cult has taken power in the priesthood. I think it would be both fun (and accurate) to roleplay a darker Ulm, because your pretender's scales certainly point in that direction.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 30, 2013, 01:58:07 PM
Oh god, can you be any more bitter?

ok, fine i didnt continually read the first post - my bad

but seriously, you have to get a grip of yourself - bitter? about what, having someone on here stomp my pixellated armies - cmon Oga, were all grown up enough to ( i frikking hope ) see this is a game - im not bitter about anything - there are a lot more serious issues in real life for me not to give a s*** that someone beat me in a video game

And arguing with the Admin in his own game? Seriously? WTF? the most mystifying thing youve said since you came here - like what? Jasons my boss? Jasons....................... like Calahan?? Jason is the god whom he pretends to be? - i see the foggy boundaries between real life and game world may have blurred for you Oga but really. You came to the wrong place if you think this is JASONS GAME and all who question him must be smote

So in short, and i take in Jasons reply also here, yes i should have read the ever changing first screen, and thats fine, and no i wont be playing in shared victory games again, and maybe not even alliance games - i think its a shitty way to try and win the game, and despite all those who want to misrepresent the spirit of the game with mystical role playing bollocks - it wasnt built for that no matter how many people are playing it, 3 or 30, and no amount of 'thematic reasoning' is going to change that - if this was one of the intentions of the designer it would have been put in the UI, there is no sharing of land, no access thru my lands, if you want in you have to attack, its a holy war
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 30, 2013, 02:38:56 PM
On yet the other hand, there's also nothing preventing some of the mages from deciding that the next Pantokrator ought to be of a different character than previous ones, and so struggling to win by acclamation and rational mutual agreement rather than by total annihilation of all other pretenders.

The beauty of RP.  Remember the guy on reddit who was still playing the same three nations in a Civ II game that was already 10 years rl time long?  I can see the necessity and desire to set up an SVA to start the long path toward the end-game.  And me, I think that I am allied with one of those nations in an NAP - I have to check, but I noticed that it was not publicly acknowledged.  This does not worry me.  One, I am still learning, and to be perfectly honest this level of intrigue is something that I ENJOY seeing in any game.  As for U'geek, there is nothing preventing him from scouting around and temporarily allying himself with some of the other nations threatened by this alliance making it clear from the outset that it would be a temporary alliance meant only to remove a larger threat that will take them all out if nothing is done.  I can see the webs, and they are beautiful.

I can also see a game on this size map w/o diplomacy taking literally the better part of a year and while I have the patience to see a game like that out I also have a strong desire to see this one end in a timely manner so that I can try some new stuff and another pretender in the next game. 

The quote that I selected from JP exemplifies the beauty of RP.  Yes, in this game we are living in the wake of a cataclysmic death of the one true god.  There are many roads to go from there.  There is the most obvious road to the top of the mountain which is to battle for supremacy until the followers of each and every other nations are yours or subjugated.  Or there is a way to see the next age is one of enlightenment and accord rather than the discord that shattered the last ages and left a void when the last Pantokrator was lost.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 30, 2013, 02:41:32 PM
@Elitesix

I dont think "You are not RPing correctly", was a good card to pull.
It never ends well.
Your points are valid tho, but you need to remember Jason also subbed in.
Or might have some "silly" explanations he considers valid for why the land is dieing.

I say all RP is welcome, even so called "bad RP".

@Undercovergeek

Check your recent msg's, for the last 4 or 6 you are just whining about how life is unfair and the rules you agreed upon.
Are now, that you are losing, totally wrong and unjust. sheesh!
Frankly its annoying to refresh the page and see you constant whining, and hogging the thread from other "fronts".
I know you must think you are the center of the universe, but there are in fact 20 or so other people playing.

As for my "most mystifying" comment, you should check who is the Admin for this game.
And what does that mean.

Which in this case do mean its actually and quite literally Jasons game, which he set up with his rules.
And as far as anyone should concern hes word is final on all matters.
You dont like his calls, dont join his games in the future.

As for you pulling seniority on me with your smug "since you got here" remark, if others share this opinion I will gladly leave.
I did not know this was some kind of private club, unwelcoming to new members.
Came here to play dominions with other noobs, not read the regurgitated whines of a grown man anyway!
Frankly you can take your smug attitude and shove it.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 30, 2013, 02:50:46 PM
is there a need for that level of unpleasantness? and thats exactly what i meant about you being here - youre here with the wrong attitude

trolling me's fine, ive got the intellect and maturity to deal with it

making this forum and this website look trashy isnt fine

at no point have i whined about losing, im not, if you bothered to even check anything noones attacked me yet, noone knows the outcome of anything thats to be brought from this alliance, ive merely pointed out that i dont like it - but i apologise to you in particular if not liking the alliance has spoilt your day, and has somehow made you behave like the total **** you just showed yourself to be - it wasnt necessary
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game -- Opponents wanted
Post by: claes on May 30, 2013, 02:54:47 PM
There's no official alliance mechanism in the game, no 'allow XXXX access to my lands' as far as the game is concerned everyone is at war. Alliances and diplomacy can be conducted thru pm here, email or messaging in the game. When you eventually meet your neighbour its advisable to get in touch just to see what direction they're going in, is this their border or are they going any further - bear in mind you've probably met because your borders are touching and there's the odd indy province left between you - work out who's going for what lest you end up in the same province and start a war! As an example in a game here I met a neighbour who said 'I'm just taking province XXXX and will go no further' just to alleviate those nerves!

As for alliances, if you think it would be prudent to say to neighbour A 'hey I've found neighbour B, if you attack from the left, ill attack from the east' then you can carve up an enemy, of course you could tell b about a too and offer the same promise then when they've destroyed each other go get the pieces, or tell a about b and then do nothing - and then go get a now he is weaker..... Its all very machievellian and entirely open to your discretion!

This was your reply to my question about alliances before the game actually started.  So I can see that we will have a nice end-game no matter who is left standing.  We all know the rules and can move on from there.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 30, 2013, 02:59:00 PM
Resolving disagreements are about building bridges. All aspects of life involve interaction with others yields these lessons, including those in online gaming. The way resolve your disagreement here are a useful tool about how to resolve interpersonal disagreements in general, in larger life.

I hope the both of you can work things out. Life's not about who is right or wrong. It's about building bridges.

Both of you guys take a deep breath - I'm sure if you had met in person you'd both be sharing a beer right now :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on May 30, 2013, 03:02:02 PM
@undercovergeek
If that's what you call not whining, I pity your co-workers.

Banter is banter, and you exaggerate and hijack a whole forum in order to say the same thing over and over.
The same wrong thing, mind you. And im not even sure its open to interpretations, as elaborated by jason.

If calling you on that is "trashing" this place, then I will apologies for that in the most cynical and un-sincere way I can muster.

Funny you would say all these things just minutes after calling me a "tit" on another forum.
Classy.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 30, 2013, 03:04:11 PM
Someone pm'ed me about the Civ game I mentioned so I thought I would share the link just for fun.  I realize that this is a completely different game but since this is a healthy discussion I don't have a problem dropping it in here for those that are curious and haven't seen it. 

http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/uxpil/ive_been_playing_the_same_game_of_civilization_ii/ (http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/uxpil/ive_been_playing_the_same_game_of_civilization_ii/)

Note that this is only an aside, and a fun link for gamers to read.  There are a few similarities between the Dom and Civ but not much so I don't intend for the discussion to be about this game and the one linked, I only share it because someone was curious and there might be more that didn't ask.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 30, 2013, 03:53:03 PM
@Elitesix

I dont think "You are not RPing correctly", was a good card to pull.
It never ends well.
Your points are valid tho, but you need to remember Jason also subbed in.
Or might have some "silly" explanations he considers valid for why the land is dieing.

I say all RP is welcome, even so called "bad RP".


I wasn't trying to say he wasn't RPing correctly. There is no right or wrong way to RP!

I mentioning the the opportunity for Jason could RP a much darker Ulm, especially because he hasn't really addressed the elephant in the room, with his Pretender, that being death scales 3. It could be real fun :) Or he could make it a non-issue by saying that the people Ulm have randomly been cursed. But I hope he has some fun with it!!

While I think normally if you make a character yourself, the RP is totally your business, I hope that if you sub in for another character, no one would be offended if someone offer thoughts to flesh out RPing a character someone else designed! No offense intended Jason!! Your Gamin RPs were especially fun and well done! :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on May 30, 2013, 03:59:15 PM
@Elitesix

I dont think "You are not RPing correctly", was a good card to pull.
It never ends well.
Your points are valid tho, but you need to remember Jason also subbed in.
Or might have some "silly" explanations he considers valid for why the land is dieing.

I say all RP is welcome, even so called "bad RP".


I wasn't trying to say he wasn't RPing correctly. There is no right or wrong way to RP!

I mentioning the the opportunity for Jason could RP a much darker Ulm, especially because he hasn't really addressed the elephant in the room, with his Pretender, that being death scales 3. It could be real fun :) Or he could make it a non-issue by saying that the people Ulm have randomly been cursed. But I hope he has some fun with it!!

While I think normally if you make a character yourself, the RP is totally your business, I hope that if you sub in for another character, no one would be offended if someone offer thoughts to flesh out RPing a character someone else designed! No offense intended Jason!! Your Gamin RPs were especially fun and well done! :)

Well said.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 31, 2013, 07:07:54 AM
Just a role-playing observation that I'm sharing because you substituted in for Ulm [...] The reason I point this is out is that with Ulm, it seems as though you're ignoring your pretender's preferences a bit, at least in your public discussions.

That's true, the scales don't really fit, but neither did Myrmidon take any death or blood magic. He took a bunch of negative scales in order to offset some positive scales enough so that he could still afford a good rainbow build.

I do have ideas of how I'm playing the schizophrenic result, but I'm not going to spell it all out in public, duh.  ::)

One upshot I'll admit to, though, since you kind of pointed it out in public already (and I was hoping people wouldn't notice), is that the rhetoric of Ulm vs. Machaka manipulates the honor of the people by appealing to their zealotry in a hypocritical fashion they'd be susceptible to: Machaka is a target because they're deathy spider magicians (and maybe because they're Zulu ;) -- as I mentioned earlier they're better with their own 'race' generally), but that has to be different from the incidental deathy dominion Myrmagus generates -- our nation is just under a curse, that's all. Myrmagus clearly doesn't do death or blood magic! Still, having a strong mage as leader doesn't sit well with the people either, so there'd be quite a bit of unrest if she didn't allow them outlets for their honor on one hand (alliances they can trust her to keep so as not to smear the honor of the people) and for their anti-magical beliefs on the other (MACHAKA IS CLEARLY AN EVIL MAGIC NATION WHOSE PEOPLE ARE BEING OPPRESSED -- ALSO, SPIDERS!)


When you look at the nation of Oceania, they don't even have stealthy troops. It's clearly a case where the pretender's personality drives the role-playing.

They do (or did ;) ) have a surprising amount of potential along deathy/blood routes, so I was going to play Gamin as corrupting them into that direction, with the challenge of seeing whether I could bootstrap up something like Late Age Ermor but underwater. You know, like R'lyeh, except different. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 31, 2013, 07:35:09 AM
As far as U'geek's situation goes, the only thing I object to is the claim that alliances weren't discussed before game start.

He's in a cleft stick and I sympathize with that. He doesn't want to ally with anyone in this game (he and Ermor allied just fine to fight everyone else in The Big Pretenders.) Not allying with anyone else in this game is going to lead to a loss under his current situation, since he's surrounded by hostiles and not yet strong enough to fight against everyone surrounding him with hope of winning. He can probably slow Chi and Ulm down, maybe even cripple one or both of us, but not while defending against sallies on his other borders.

Now is as good a time as any for one of us to switch over to AI -- I have an absolute ton of other things I can be doing with my time that I'll enjoy just as much or more, that won't annoy other people (or not for no good purpose anyway ;) ), so I have no compunction at all against setting my faction to AI, thus ensuring it won't be cooperating with anyone (except incidentally) against Machaka.

Or since U'geek signed up for a game mode he didn't actually want to play in the first place, and is now realizing that that kind of result could be possible in this game, he can go to AI and wait for a non-alliance game to be set up instead.

In fact, I will volunteer the password for my Groghawk experimental game, which I'm kind of swamped elsewhere about anyway (so I'm not moving very fast in setting it up): I was thinking of having it be a non-alliance game anyway, but I'll give that to U'geek as a gesture of good will, and he can finish setting up and activating that game, with the guarantee thereby that no one will possibly ally with one another on pain of being booted from the game by the admin (namely himself).

Also, that way the game may get started quicker than if I keep the reins.  ;D

Everybody wins. Is that a fair offer, U?  :) (I don't mean that the offer is contingent on going AI in this game. You can have Groghawk to manage as a non-alliance game either way, if you want it.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on May 31, 2013, 07:45:31 AM
I don't know who I'm battling but we are battling and it's now on!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 31, 2013, 07:50:31 AM
:) It's kind of nifty to remember that the recent fracas is really just confined to one small corner of the map!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 31, 2013, 07:53:45 AM
Your Gamin RPs were especially fun and well done! :)

Thanks! I hope to bring him back in the next game I join (whatever that is, whenever that is).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 31, 2013, 08:02:10 AM
As far as U'geek's situation goes, the only thing I object to is the claim that alliances weren't discussed before game start.

He's in a cleft stick and I sympathize with that. He doesn't want to ally with anyone in this game (he and Ermor allied just fine to fight everyone else in The Big Pretenders.) Not allying with anyone else in this game is going to lead to a loss under his current situation, since he's surrounded by hostiles and not yet strong enough to fight against everyone surrounding him with hope of winning. He can probably slow Chi and Ulm down, maybe even cripple one or both of us, but not while defending against sallies on his other borders.

Now is as good a time as any for one of us to switch over to AI -- I have an absolute ton of other things I can be doing with my time that I'll enjoy just as much or more, that won't annoy other people (or not for no good purpose anyway ;) ), so I have no compunction at all against setting my faction to AI, thus ensuring it won't be cooperating with anyone (except incidentally) against Machaka.

Or since U'geek signed up for a game mode he didn't actually want to play in the first place, and is now realizing that that kind of result could be possible in this game, he can go to AI and wait for a non-alliance game to be set up instead.

In fact, I will volunteer the password for my Groghawk experimental game, which I'm kind of swamped elsewhere about anyway (so I'm not moving very fast in setting it up): I was thinking of having it be a non-alliance game anyway, but I'll give that to U'geek as a gesture of good will, and he can finish setting up and activating that game, with the guarantee thereby that no one will possibly ally with one another on pain of being booted from the game by the admin (namely himself).

Also, that way the game may get started quicker than if I keep the reins.  ;D

Everybody wins. Is that a fair offer, U?  :) (I don't mean that the offer is contingent on going AI in this game. You can have Groghawk to manage as a non-alliance game either way, if you want it.)

I appreciate the offer jason, but as stated in my PM to you it is my fault for not revisiting the OP more than I should - I would not have joined if I understood fully the ramifications of your proposed alliance rules - and again this isn't criticism of your proposals merely my choice to disagree with the direction this game has been steered, and as much right as you have to take it there I have as much to withdraw

I don't want to get drawn on what I think is wrong or what you think is right, there are enough games out there catering to my preference and when I have some freetime ill maybe join one or two, until then I'm cycling through the games I do want to play in without taking any new ones on board

As with most people here its a learning experience - my main one has been to read the game set up

So despite your kind offer ill decline thanks - the current machaka turn is in, after that I will not be sending turns in - best to switch to ai
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 31, 2013, 08:05:27 AM
 We should be hitting the timer today,...but its set for Monday, and of course there is always someone who uses the entire timer......hopefully you can advance the clock instead of having to wait until moday if the one person left doesn't get their turn in soon........we all know the turn should end today..........
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 31, 2013, 08:37:41 AM
U'geek, the offer for you to admin the Groghawk game remains open (until or unless someone else takes it ;) ), in case you change your mind!

If you haven't switched to AI yet this turn, you'll still have to send in one more turn telling the system to switch you to AI. That's done ingame (from the options tab on the main ingame menu after you've loaded your turn).


Scott, I tried to reset the clock back to 48 hours, although I can't tell if it took yet. (I thought I had done so last time, but I guess I did something wrong.)

If it took, then when we all send in our turn, the clock will reset back to 48 hours as the new turn is sent out. (I found that out the hard way earlier in this game when I thought it wouldn't reset until less than 48 hours before the current extended deadline, no matter how often we sent in turns.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on May 31, 2013, 09:09:10 AM
We should be hitting the timer today,...but its set for Monday, and of course there is always someone who uses the entire timer......hopefully you can advance the clock instead of having to wait until moday if the one person left doesn't get their turn in soon........we all know the turn should end today..........

I agree.  I know there is probably a lot of offline discussion going on and players need to sort game negotiations out first before submitting their turns.  Then there are some who are busy with real life and hence can't submit their turns in a timely manner for various reasons.

Still though, sometimes the long wait times between turns (4 or more days) can be frustrating.  Sometimes I forget what's going in game or simply lose interest in playing because when the turn finally does arrive it's almost a chore to play it. 

Guys I know life sucks sometimes and we can't get to what we'd love to get to but I strongly suggest going A.I. if it looks like you're going to be tied up with other stuff.  Committing to a massive PBEM like this one is serious business and if life is getting in the way it might be a good idea to commit to smaller private games or not PBEM at all until real life issues are sorted out.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 31, 2013, 09:38:37 AM
We could always get a sub. Usually can get a sub if you post on desura within 12-24 hours. And they usually don't require too long to get up to speed - maybe a day or two from what I've seen.

Having a real life player over AI is always more fun, especially for a nation not close to defeat.

Having a player go AI is also closer to turning their provinces independent than having an actual living empire. Meaning it's a large advantage for those players bordering the AI nation. AI nations are horrible at actually doing anything militarily.

Other than the time saved not delaying the game potentially a day or two, I think having real player sub instead of AI is the best option. I can post on desura and find someone if you guys are interested.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on May 31, 2013, 11:02:18 AM
If you haven't switched to AI yet this turn, you'll still have to send in one more turn telling the system to switch you to AI.

done and resent
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on May 31, 2013, 04:04:50 PM
Turn has processed and due date is Sunday....looks like everything is back on track....time wise.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 31, 2013, 04:11:31 PM
And then there were only 18 Pretenders left!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on May 31, 2013, 05:56:16 PM
Looks like Pangaea is also out?

If so, be sure to set your team to AI if you have anything left at all to make a turn with, and then send your turn.

Meanwhile, my various allies and quasi-allies ;) should be aware there's a quite massive Machakan army now running loose in the south of their area, which could strike in any direction--but specifically I'm a bit worried about Eriu. Be careful -- the AI doesn't just sit around like an indie when it has a nation.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on May 31, 2013, 10:07:59 PM
Just send one neutral fatigue geared thug and you'll kill armies into the hundreds. Unless geek created some armies with mages and scripted them. Then you'll have to use a little bit more strategy.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on May 31, 2013, 11:11:38 PM
Looks like now it's a race to carve up his rather large territory.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 02, 2013, 10:01:29 AM
Jason, could you add and update the current hosting interval on The game status page now and whenever you change it so that people will know the interval, because if you submit a turn and the due date is next years, but the interval is 24 hrs, as soon as everyone turns in their file the next due date is 24 hrs out.

We have three nations who haven't submitted yet the turn timer expires  in less than 4 hrs probably due to the above described interaction.

Posting the hosting interval in the game status info will go a long way to alleviating this. For others, I hope you have read this thread and submit your turns. In the meantime, you can also check on the game status page-admin info to get the current hosting interval.

Cheers!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on June 02, 2013, 10:17:11 AM
I'm one of the missing ones but no problem I should have my turn in shortly. Just switching over to a new windows 8 machine today and struggling to get everything up and running under this mess of an OS. However just about there and just going to open a beer and plan the move (Or at least push armies around in some vague pretty pattern.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 02, 2013, 11:47:12 AM
E6, now updated. (I had intended to do so after the recent turn, but got distracted on other things and GAAAH IT'S ALMOST NOT THE WEEKEND ANYMORE AND I STILL HAVEN'T PLAYED A SECOND TOWARD FINISHING STRONGooo, wait, after 12, the new Steam deal for the day should be up now.... {clicking}
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 04, 2013, 02:12:26 AM
You know, I'm starting to notice in my other games with standard rules (one pretender god takes all, no shared victory), alliances are very common up until the end...

I think unless someone plays a no diplomacy game, you're going to have alliances. And even with no diplo game, there's going to be players who get dogpiled.

Just seems its the way MP dom3 plays out.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 04, 2013, 08:55:39 AM
Agreed.  That seems to be intended.  The ultimate goal is for one and only one pretender to be god of the universe.  Diplomacy has it's limits of usefulness in this game.  The way I perceive diplomacy to work in this game is a bunch of guys agree not to beat each other up until everyone who is not friends or members of the clique are eliminated. 

Once all the others are gone, a nice private war amongst close friends can begin until one nation is left standing.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on June 04, 2013, 12:10:00 PM
Agreed.  That seems to be intended.  The ultimate goal is for one and only one pretender to be god of the universe.  Diplomacy has it's limits of usefulness in this game.  The way I perceive diplomacy to work in this game is a bunch of guys agree not to beat each other up until everyone who is not friends or members of the clique are eliminated. 

Once all the others are gone, a nice private war amongst close friends can begin until one nation is left standing.

  The problem there is that the group of friends will typically be the same throughout games. So either you are in the "clique" or you are dead. I must ask,...why not just play a game with only the clique members since that's what it will boil down to anyway?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 04, 2013, 12:13:57 PM
Which happens to be close to how the Cabal works in my novels, btw: a set of moderately powerful demons, based on various (somewhat conflicting) prophetic insights, agrees to team up with each other tenuously and temporarily in order to fight a much stronger (but much less mobile) demon, with the understanding that once the stronger guy is dealt with they'll go to war with each other around the city the more powerful demon is trapped in. The winner will presumably grow strong enough to deal with any future rivals alone.

(Notably this is not Gamin's plan at all! -- one result being that they snack on him while interrogating him for information about the situation nearby. ;) The heroine and her helpers get in the way of this, partly by having her own conquest agenda -- she's rather opportunistic to start with -- along with some other human villains who have their own conquest agendas. And another even more powerful Roguent who's quietly manipulating events behind the scenes.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 04, 2013, 12:28:31 PM
The problem there is that the group of friends will typically be the same throughout games. So either you are in the "clique" or you are dead. I must ask,...why not just play a game with only the clique members since that's what it will boil down to anyway?

I've never been in the same alliance with the same members twice yet; I base alliances purely on a combination of role-playing and game circumstances.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 04, 2013, 12:32:42 PM
I've never been in the same alliance with the same members twice yet; I base alliances purely on a combination of role-playing and game circumstances.

Same here.  I forge alliances with whoever it seems suitable to do so, depending entirely on circumstances.  Geek and I are good friends and we quickly allied in our first game, but in the second game we were (and still are) bitter rivals.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 04, 2013, 12:35:32 PM
Speaking of cliques and alliances (sort of)... ;)

Yskonyn has to go out of town on a two week holiday, and doesn't want to delay our Late Age Dominion of Grog game, so he's looking for someone to take over his position (as LA Caelum) temporarily. It's a small position but relatively stable.

He offered to let me run it, since we're neutral with each other (so far) in that game. If I take it I'll stay neutral with my real faction in the game, and maybe make war on my real allies in the game (if that's how his nation is set up in its own alliances); but obviously I (and he) will benefit from my having access to more information on each side than I otherwise would.

So it would be better if someone not already in DomofGrogs could pick up his position for a couple of weeks. He needs to know by tomorrow though so that as admin he can set the new email registrations.

Anyone interested?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 04, 2013, 12:38:37 PM
I've never been in the same alliance with the same members twice yet; I base alliances purely on a combination of role-playing and game circumstances.

Same here.  I forge alliances with whoever it seems suitable to do so, depending entirely on circumstances.  Geek and I are good friends and we quickly allied in our first game, but in the second game we were (and still are) bitter rivals.

Whereas had things turned out differently I might have allied with Geek in the second game (and still might for all I know -- I'm just not near) or this third game (although not allying with him was more expedient to my character). On the other hand, I was going to go into one of the offsite games allied with him from the beginning, except the game conditions indicated I probably shouldn't join (and would have been strongly against any alliance especially secret ones anyway).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 04, 2013, 12:47:58 PM
Agreed.  That seems to be intended.  The ultimate goal is for one and only one pretender to be god of the universe.  Diplomacy has it's limits of usefulness in this game.  The way I perceive diplomacy to work in this game is a bunch of guys agree not to beat each other up until everyone who is not friends or members of the clique are eliminated. 

Once all the others are gone, a nice private war amongst close friends can begin until one nation is left standing.

  The problem there is that the group of friends will typically be the same throughout games. So either you are in the "clique" or you are dead. I must ask,...why not just play a game with only the clique members since that's what it will boil down to anyway?

It's because cliques love to trample on and spit upon everyone who is not in it.  Once they get their rocks off then they play against each other over the stinking corpses of the outsiders they reveled in eliminating. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 04, 2013, 12:52:31 PM


I've never been in the same alliance with the same members twice yet; I base alliances purely on a combination of role-playing and game circumstances.

I don't know all of you that well but to me it seems that is the case in our game here.  I don't think that there is a group in this game that are looking down at the little people before they duke it out amongst themselves. 

The next game I play however I will make a request that there are no alliances.  Make it cut throat and get to the chase quicker.  In all other strategy games I welcome alliances but the way Dom3 is built, it plays better when everyone is out for themselves.  Just MHO, I could be wrong. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 04, 2013, 01:16:04 PM
No, I do agree with you, W8.  Alliances seem forced in Dominions 3.  I mean, you can't even open your borders to someone.  I will make use of alliances where available, but I certainly wouldn't be averse to playing games in which they're forbidden.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 04, 2013, 01:30:44 PM
No, I do agree with you, W8.  Alliances seem forced in Dominions 3.  I mean, you can't even open your borders to someone.  I will make use of alliances where available, but I certainly wouldn't be averse to playing games in which they're forbidden.

The question is, is there a substantial difference between having an overt alliance and "merely" dogpiling someone? Isn't the dogpile a temporary alliance of a sort?

You can't even prevent a dogpile in a no diplomacy game, though it requires the dogpiling players to have good scout info and follow the same analysis that a third player is weaker and should be attacked. Or all it requires is for the would-be dogpiler to examine ongoing 1v1 wars around him and then attack the weaker player.

Inherent in any free for all are alliances. Whether shared alliance victory, or standard rules plus diplomacy, or no diplomacy, they only serve to make it slightly harder to form long term alliances depending on the rules. But ultimately, in any game where you can gain an advantage by teaming up, you're going to have a game where defacto alliances play a large part in determining who is the most powerful.

Kind of like how power works in groups in real life. It's rare that the person at the top got there without the help of others in the group he seeks to lead.

This is just the sort of game dominions 3 is. Whether you like that or not, is your decision. But I think it's important to realize its an inherent part of the game itself.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 04, 2013, 02:59:25 PM
Quote from: elitesix
Kind of like how power works in groups in real life. It's rare that the person at the top got there without the help of others in the group he seeks to lead.

Excellent words of wisdom that I think I get how they apply in Dom3.  More importantly however, you're right about it working this way in real life. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 05, 2013, 11:24:32 AM
Kind of like how power works in groups in real life. It's rare that the person at the top got there without the help of others in the group he seeks to lead.

For example, if y'all hadn't agreed to join my game, I wouldn't be able to boot everyone and declare myself the winner! :)

(Just because I have the power doesn't mean I'm going to use it that way. But the example seemed apt... ;) )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 05, 2013, 08:05:27 PM
As we have several people (myself included) who haven't submitted a turn as the deadline approaches, and since it seems unlikely I'm going to be able to get one in until tomorrow afternoon, I'm bumping the gameclock ahead to Monday.

Did I mention I'm going to be gone over the weekend? That, too. ;) (Thus Monday.) But if I can sneak an extra turn in with my next one before Friday, that should allow the game to progress until I get back.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on June 05, 2013, 08:06:21 PM
Enjoy your weekend, Jason!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on June 07, 2013, 01:20:51 PM
Is Agartha still with us? I know that with 10 minutes to go to the last deadline he had not submitted.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on June 07, 2013, 01:25:36 PM
I believe he is but of course I cannot be certain.  Sometimes I wish there was a ping or poke function or a server-automated reminder email when it comes down to several hours or so before deadline.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on June 07, 2013, 01:26:09 PM
I believe he is but of course I cannot be certain.  Sometimes I wish there was a ping or poke function or a server-automated reminder email when it comes down to several hours or so before deadline.

in every game ive played so far i get a 12 hours to go message
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 07, 2013, 01:26:45 PM
The game clock got bumped to monday.  Looks like we will be waiting a bit longer for the next turn. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 07, 2013, 01:38:18 PM
Depends; I might be able to sneak in a turn this afternoon and/or tomorrow morning, depending on circumstances.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 07, 2013, 01:40:11 PM
^You've already played turn 30, we're just waiting now for Vlam (Agartha).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 07, 2013, 01:43:12 PM
^^ I'm just saying, if he plays before 5:00pm my time I might be able to sneak in another turn this afternoon. And I may be back at the house for a few hours tomorrow morning, too, so another opportunity then.

He may have thought I wouldn't be able to get in turn 30 before I left, so decided to just wait until closer to Monday.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on June 07, 2013, 01:44:37 PM
Well I think my kindom might end this turn.  I still have no clue what the hell was going on or what I was doing.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 07, 2013, 01:45:31 PM
He may have thought I wouldn't be able to get in turn 30 before I left, so decided to just wait until closer to Monday.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking will happen.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 07, 2013, 01:47:20 PM
Well I think my kindom might end this turn.  I still have no clue what the hell was going on or what I was doing.

Neither did I going into this game and I fear my end is nigh as well.  However I do know much more now than going into the game.  I'm very grateful to have had a chance to play with a bunch of really good guys.  I will definitely want to play another PBEM game of Dom3. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 07, 2013, 01:57:30 PM
Wow.  Some of you are dropping already, yet I've only met one other nation (besides finding a few with scouts).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 07, 2013, 02:05:53 PM
One or two nations failed last turn, too. (Not Agartha.)

I love how this map is so epic that these tragedies (or victories) can happen off somewhere else I never even know about. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on June 07, 2013, 02:08:02 PM
Huw you must own half the world by now, hope I don't run into you anytime soon unless you want to protect a small empire of undead.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 07, 2013, 02:17:49 PM
Huw you must own half the world by now, hope I don't run into you anytime soon unless you want to protect a small empire of undead.

I do own a lot of land, yes, although probably nowhere near as much as some of the more experienced players.

I'll tell you what - gold isn't a problem!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on June 07, 2013, 02:23:38 PM
Can You send me a load then please. Us undead are not known for our earning potential in the current labour market.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on June 07, 2013, 02:44:05 PM
mkivcs, your ermorian nation seems to be doing pretty well. From what I can tell, you have someone else's capital and a rather larger domain.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 07, 2013, 02:52:05 PM
Haha, he's trying to hustle us!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on June 07, 2013, 03:09:15 PM
Well I think my kindom might end this turn.  I still have no clue what the hell was going on or what I was doing.

Neither did I going into this game and I fear my end is nigh as well.  However I do know much more now than going into the game.  I'm very grateful to have had a chance to play with a bunch of really good guys.  I will definitely want to play another PBEM game of Dom3.
I couldn't have said it better myself ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on June 07, 2013, 04:00:13 PM
mkivcs, your ermorian nation seems to be doing pretty well. From what I can tell, you have someone else's capital and a rather larger domain.

I'm just house sitting for a friend, As a nation we're as poor as church mice, forced to scratch a living in the badlands that no one else wants. I'm sure the great lord Huw would like to send us gold'is
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 07, 2013, 04:24:28 PM
One or two nations failed last turn, too. (Not Agartha.)

I love how this map is so epic that these tragedies (or victories) can happen off somewhere else I never even know about. :)

I agree.  Lends to the realism of the time period in an age without t.v., radio, or the internets.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 08, 2013, 02:52:55 AM
I agree.  Lends to the realism of the time period in an age without t.v., radio, or the internets.

Pah!  I don't know about you primitive savages in Vanheim, but we in Arcoscephale do have an internet - although it seems to be mostly used for looking up this season's hottest breastplates and "barely legal Ermorian sluts".   ???
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 08, 2013, 06:47:33 AM
^LOL
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 08, 2013, 10:46:06 AM
Jason:

1) You forgot to post the hosting interval in the game status (currently 144 hours). It's always important to write down the number and post it in the game status info.

2) it is time to reset the hosting interval to 48 hours since it is 48 hours till Monday.

Thanks again for admining the game - it is work!!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 09, 2013, 01:34:19 AM
At this point agartha, if you are reading this, I recommend not sending your 2h until the last minute if you want to give Jason a chance to reset The hosting interval to 48 hours.

Otherwise, if you submit, the next turn will be scheduled 144 hours out as that is the current delay dragging the game out as someone will probably use that entire period and that only leaves force hosting or preponing the posted due date to correct that, both which are bad solutions imho.

I'll ask other admins how they deal with this hosting interval stuff because it seems like our interval gets messed up a lot more than in my other games which also give players weekend delays.

Edit: a quick read over the hosting options yields three settings:
1) change hosting interval
2) postpone current turn due date
3) turn off quick hosting

It seems our problems seem to revolve around changing the hosting interval. I would suggest, in the future, leaving the hosting interval at 48 hours but postponing the turn due date and turn off quick hosting till the delay period is up.

Thus, for example in your case Jason when you were unsure about getting a turn in before monday, you would have post poned the hosting till Monday and turn quick hosting off. It's not a perfect solution, but I think it's better than risking an unneccessary turn of extended hosting intervals.

It might seem nice in theory that you have an extended hosting interval w/quick host so that there is a possibility that the turns go much faster if everyone submits, but I think the reality is because someone typically will use the entire timer on average at least once every two turns, it's actually slower than just delaying the host of the turn while players are unavailable but keeping the game turns at a steady interval once the weekend is over.

At least, those are my humble thoughts on the matter! After all, you are the admin and only you have the password :)

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Phobos on June 09, 2013, 06:09:06 PM
Jason Pratt is away, hence the extended interval in this turn.

It's also the 3rd year of the game.  I can understand the rush to get turns in during the early, development phase of the game, but not after that has passed.
 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 09, 2013, 06:48:08 PM
I'm back from the weekend, and the schedule has been reset to 48 hours once Agartha sends in their turn. (Yes, turning off the autohosting might be better if I know someone will be AFK for a protracted time; good advice E6. :) )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 09, 2013, 08:38:54 PM
Back to war :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 10, 2013, 04:37:08 AM
Vlam has not logged in since 2.June 2013


Does anyone here know if he's ok or if he needed to be away for a while?  Is there any way someone can contact him? 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 10, 2013, 07:55:28 AM
The turn is about to go anyway (if it hasn't already), and he could still be just holding off until the last minute. I have his email, and I'll ping him directly as well as through the forum if it looks like he's going to stale next turn later this week (around Wednesday).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on June 10, 2013, 11:23:43 AM
Hey there!
Just stalked a bit yesterday, and saw the warning of elitesix.
So I sent my turn as late as possible :) .
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 10, 2013, 02:06:01 PM
Hey there!
Just stalked a bit yesterday, and saw the warning of elitesix.
So I sent my turn as late as possible :) .

Seriously? 


I'm done with this game.  Feel free to AI my nation. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on June 10, 2013, 02:22:33 PM
Hey there!
Just stalked a bit yesterday, and saw the warning of elitesix.
So I sent my turn as late as possible :) .

Seriously? 


I'm done with this game.  Feel free to AI my nation.

Too bad.  I think he was being 100% literal.

Quote from: elitesix
At this point agartha, if you are reading this, I recommend not sending your 2h until the last minute if you want to give Jason a chance to reset The hosting interval to 48 hours.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 10, 2013, 02:43:46 PM
^^ Agreed; we discussed this earlier, that he might be doing this.

You can still set your faction to AI, of course, W8.  ::)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 10, 2013, 03:39:44 PM
I'm sorry guys.  When I commit to something I commit.  I don't dilly dally.  If it is a difficulty for one to submit turns in a timely manner either don't commit or at least provide notice and get someone to sub. 

AI me please. 

P.S.  He may have been joking when he made the comment but making everyone else wait for 6 days before the next turn is submitted is kind of rude.  To joke about it was the coup de grace for me. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Phobos on June 10, 2013, 04:07:57 PM
It's not like Vlam failed to submit his turn.  In fact, by waiting till the last minute to submit, he has forced someone to quit.  It could be argued that his meta-game is superior to other players.

I know I've never forced anyone to quit by sending my turn in...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on June 10, 2013, 04:35:30 PM
Well...
There goes my "war ally".
I will miss the steady stream of reassurances he will join the war soon on my side.  ;D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 10, 2013, 04:36:36 PM
It was Jason who requested a delay till Monday. (though he submitted his turn anyway - Jason perhaps you may also want to use gmail's scheduled email feature to help you control your submissions)

If Vlam had submitted his turn when Jason had accidentally left the hosting interval at 144 hours, I think it would have slowed down the game more because of the 5+ day hosting interval. By waiting Vlam allowed Jason to correct the hosting delay issue.

But this is a good time to point out that you should request delays as infrequently as possible. As requesting them frequently can kill the interest in the game, which seems to be happening here.

That being said, we are roughly on track since we started with 2 days per turn. However, the turn timers will likely increase as we enter mid game.

Larger games, in terms of number of people, and number of territories, mean slower turn times. This was definitely going to be a slow game, and games get slower into mid game because of the complexity and diplomacy.

As an aside, that's also why I think I would kill myself before playing a map larger than this one :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 10, 2013, 06:00:56 PM
...But this is a good time to point out that you should request delays as infrequently as possible. As requesting them frequently can kill the interest in the game, which seems to be happening here...

...Larger games, in terms of number of people, and number of territories, mean slower turn times. This was definitely going to be a slow game, and games get slower into mid game because of the complexity and diplomacy.

As an aside, that's also why I think I would kill myself before playing a map larger than this one :)

For me that is the case.  Why delay a game that everyone except one guy shows extreme interest in playing?  If he's playing some meta game by purposely waiting to the last minute than I wish to play with individuals who are more mature than that.  Bravo if that is his game he succeeded.  But I look down on that kind of childish behavior in the same way I look down on the adolescent idiots who play COD by camping at spawn points and sniping people within seconds of entering the match. 

Big games like this need more time for diplomacy, I get that.  It's a great opportunity to roleplay, forge relationships, etc. but if every turn is going to be some long drawn out affair with an individual thumbing his nose at the community than count me out. 

Is it really that hard to find people who just want to play the fucking game without resorting to stupid parlor tricks or studying for exams or taking the dog for a walk so I need to delay my turn?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 10, 2013, 06:19:14 PM
Well...
There goes my "war ally".
I will miss the steady stream of reassurances he will join the war soon on my side.  ;D

I'm sorry.  I also need to say sorry to byrdman too.  I had intended to attack him this turn to support you.  With my generals equipped with rings of lightning and my earth smiths I figured I had a chance to do some damage to Eriu.  If anyone wants my password and save turn let me know.  I really wanted to see if my pathetic attempt to take on a superpower was going to work. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 10, 2013, 08:56:02 PM
W8,

1.) We'll need to delay the game in order to give anyone who might wish to take your position a chance to do so (insert irony here ;) );

2.) You should blame me for the delay, not Vlam, who was waiting until he knew I was back from a rare weekend with my brother so I could reset the clock before the final turn was sent (thus preventing the timer from going forward another several days). I don't think he was mocking anyone, he was only explaining he was following E6's advice, and just happened not to check in until then.

I'll turn off the autosend until we have a clear idea of who is going to play your nation. Several players have lost a nation recently, here and in other games. Or you can keep going. Whichever you prefer, no pressure either way.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on June 10, 2013, 09:13:26 PM
W8,

1.) We'll need to delay the game in order to give anyone who might wish to take your position a chance to do so (insert irony here ;) );

2.) You should blame me for the delay, not Vlam, who was waiting until he knew I was back from a rare weekend with my brother so I could reset the clock before the final turn was sent (thus preventing the timer from going forward another several days). I don't think he was mocking anyone, he was only explaining he was following E6's advice, and just happened not to check in until then.

I'll turn off the autosend until we have a clear idea of who is going to play your nation. Several players have lost a nation recently, here and in other games. Or you can keep going. Whichever you prefer, no pressure either way.

That was the impression that I got as well, Jason.  Not that Vlam was in any way trying to impede another players game; in fact I believe that he was simply trying to follow advice and help it flow along a little bit smoother.  I understand the impulse to lurk.  I do not know anybody very well here and I try to take a back role until I have a better handle on things, and of course until I get to know the personalities a bit more as well.  I speak up if I have something to say, such as right now,, and I have enjoyed almost every minute of it.  It is true that this is a long game, and a slow one, and on top of that we have a lot of new players as well (I am including myself as well here.)  I understand that the flow is a bit awkward, but I also don't expect this to be a German train station.  We are a group of people who have all expressed an interest in playing this game, and I don't think I have seen much indication at all that anyone is not dedicated to what we are trying to accomplish.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 10, 2013, 09:17:43 PM
There doesn't appear to be a way to turn off the autosend per se -- I can turn off quickhosting but that's a different thing -- so I "postponed" the game, which seems to be the same in effect as changing the time forward then back again. So the next time everyone gets a turn in, however soon that is, we'll be back to 48 hours.

I've advertised W8's Vanheim on the other games here at Grogheads (except for the new one Parone was setting up as I didn't want to distract from that), so perhaps we'll get a new human player soon; although if W8 changes his mind that's perfectly fine, too. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 11, 2013, 06:46:53 AM
Well now I feel really bad.  I have to admit I was definitely steamed yesterday but I respect you Jason and thanks for explaining the situation.   I'm sorry if I offended anyone.  If you will still have me I'd like to continue playing. 

Ogaburan I won't let you down!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 11, 2013, 08:10:15 AM
Yay!  Welcome back to the game!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 11, 2013, 10:19:41 AM
Huzzah W8! Huzzah! :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 11, 2013, 10:59:55 AM
NOW WE CAN SLAY YOU AS YOU DESERVE!

I MEAN... uh, I mean, yay W8.  :D {trying to remember if I'm in some kind of alliance with Vanheim}

That being the case I'll promptly retweak the timing back to 48 hours. This gives me an opportunity to test what will happen with this admin function...

...and indeed the clock has gone backward to Wed 16:25GMT!

Is everyone good with that time? It's less than 24 hours away now.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 11, 2013, 11:01:15 AM
^LOL

Can't wait to see what happens.  I'm good with that time.  I'll submit my turn later on this evening.

And thanks to all for the welcome back!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 11, 2013, 11:12:12 AM
(http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/229031_thewave.gif)(http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/ymca.gif)(http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/love0059.gif)(http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/ymca.gif)(http://www.wargamer.com/forums/smiley/229031_thewave.gif)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on June 11, 2013, 12:14:55 PM
I wasn't mocking anyone, as claes and Jason said, I was following an advice :-\ .
Well, I do have a lot of fun in this game, even with diplomacy: I'm not posting a lot because english isn't my native language as you may have notice, and sometimes I don't know how to express myself, or bounce on someone's joke.

This said, I'm trying to do diplomacy with PM on grogheads, and ingame message. And no, that wasn't metagame ;D .
Sorry if I pissed you off guys, I wanted to avoid an other 144h hosting.

By the way, I finally took revenge over Man that attacked me a few turns before, héhé...
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 11, 2013, 12:57:49 PM
^I'm sorry too Vlam if I may have been too harsh on you.  I understand that it can be difficult to communicate in another language.   ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 11, 2013, 02:05:41 PM
Vlam is infinitely better at writing (and probably speaking) English, than I am at speaking whatever barbaric tongue he naturally uses.  ;D

(But seriously, you do a very good job, Vlam, better than some native English speakers. I have an almost unconquerable respect for anyone multi-lingual.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on June 11, 2013, 02:09:08 PM
Whoever is kicking my ass can you please just finish the deed or surrender your lands to me so I can get back to doing whatever it was that I thought I was doing in the first place?  Thanks.  :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on June 11, 2013, 02:36:23 PM
Whoever is kicking my ass can you please just finish the deed or surrender your lands to me so I can get back to doing whatever it was that I thought I was doing in the first place?  Thanks.  :)

That would be me.
I'm trying! But your home castle has 700 base defense. That castle in the top of a big mountain is taking a lot of time to siege.

Since now we're close to ending our war, I can tell you that you shouldn't put your fragile Seraph god our your other mages in the front line; too easy to catch a loose arrow. Still, your mammoths trampled a lot of my soldiers. I think you could have stomped more independent provinces with them before I came south. But don't listen me too much :P, I've never been able to expand well with Caelum, despite liking the nation. Something about their flying soldiers still escapes my tactical grasp.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on June 11, 2013, 02:40:35 PM

Something about their flying soldiers still escapes my tactical grasp.

Not me.  They are horrible soldiers!  Always flying into combat with their ice blades and armor and then promptly running away.  If the goal of the game was having routing armies, I'd be the winner.  8)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on June 11, 2013, 03:19:16 PM

 Supposedly the trick with Caelum is the ability to fly around, taking the enemy provinces and avoiding the big clash of armies as long as they need. They can fly their troops and their mages all around the place, which is a very good tactical advantage, but hard to master. And those ice blades are magical weapons, so those troops should be good to fly in battle turn 1 to some misftform or ethereal thugs in order to butcher them. But the AI doesn't know how to use thugs or SCs, so again, hard to practice that in single player....unless you play against yourself which, strangely, didn't come to my mind in my previous -frustrating- tests to try to make Caelum work as it should.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 11, 2013, 04:25:52 PM
I think you need to really go for air magic as Caelum too.  I was almost Caelum myself in my newest game; I'd quite like to see whether I can make any use of them.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 11, 2013, 04:30:54 PM
Re: Caelum Strategy

Thundercats HO!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBkTIb4NtrA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VBkTIb4NtrA)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on June 11, 2013, 10:46:09 PM
Seeing as how I was going to try Caelum in my next game, I think I will choose another faction to play.  I don't know if I am adept enough to attempt to be a Thundercat just yet ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on June 13, 2013, 03:26:31 AM
Vlam is infinitely better at writing (and probably speaking) English, than I am at speaking whatever barbaric tongue he naturally uses.  ;D

(But seriously, you do a very good job, Vlam, better than some native English speakers. I have an almost unconquerable respect for anyone multi-lingual.)

Ah ah, french is supposed to be hard to speak/to learn for non-native :) .
Thanks a lot!

As Lunaje said, you are supposed to avoid as much as possible big clash between your army and your opponent with Caelum, as long as you aren't strong enough. They have the best raid capacity of the whole game, everyone is flying! But you are true, they are terribly hard to handle.
Mammoth should only be used for expansion, they are too easily countered by an human player (Fire Bonds, False Fetters, ...).

If I had to play Caelum, I'd try a strategy like: rush Con 2, get Lightning Rod, construct a LOT of Corpse construct (immuned to lightning), and while they stick your ennemies, spam Thunder Strike with your High Seraph. Don't overlook your archer that have a very good precision (each point over 10 count as double), because you have an easy access to Wind Guide. Freezing Mist is a very good spell, because your enemies get exhausted quickly, and you have some units 100% cold resistant.
While the game progress, you'll have access to the best army buffing spell, without a doubt: Fog warrior.
A spam of Air Elemental may work too, bring some High Seraph and have them cast Living Clouds at the beginning of battle, and then various evocation spell.

Well, I'm not good enough to write a guide on MA Caelum, but I guess that some of these ideas may work ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on June 13, 2013, 09:31:48 AM
You lost me at "rush Con2,...."at which point my brain melted.  :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on June 13, 2013, 09:38:28 AM
*Research as soon as possible Construction 2 :P
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on June 13, 2013, 09:43:56 AM
I think I researched the "your quick impending doom by being conquered by your neighbor" option.  8)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ogaburan on June 15, 2013, 02:55:47 AM
I have been defeated, resistance will be marginal so I set myself to AI.

GG
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on June 15, 2013, 10:45:12 AM
GG Oga!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 15, 2013, 11:31:32 AM
gg Ogaburan. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Bison on June 15, 2013, 11:55:53 AM
I've also accepted that now that my pretender died and the enemy is at the gates with no hope for me to raise an army to retake the castle; my game has ended as well.  I've set it to AI control. Great game guys.  I really enjoyed it.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 15, 2013, 03:22:47 PM
It looks like quite a few nations have been busy conquering others!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on June 15, 2013, 06:39:02 PM
Ahhh I expect that they will make short work of me when they find me.  Indeed, a good game.  I am already looking forward to the next, and using what time I have left to try to be as sure as I can about the mechanics before the next one begins. 

I will likely have many questions still. 

I am going to start a 'Quick Questions Thread'.  We've all seen them on other game forums, but it is exactly like it sounds if you haven't and might be worthy of a pin.  If not that's ok.  Basically as there are a good mix of newer players and players that know what they're doing it is an excellent opportunity to get some burning questions answered.  With that I'll move some of my questions there ;)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 16, 2013, 09:35:15 AM
So, who's still left in the game?!

Because the only person near me who is out is Machaka (sort of; my allies and I are carving up the AI territory right now.)

Well, technically I suppose that would also be 'me', insofar as Oceania was the first to go out.  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on June 16, 2013, 09:36:55 AM
Mictlan (my faction) is still here, and though it won't help my situation that much my turn will be in shortly.

On an unrelated note, a happy Father's Day to all of the fathers out there.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on June 16, 2013, 10:09:47 AM
I'm still in  - Arcoscephale.

On an unrelated note, a happy Father's Day to all of the fathers out there.

Thanks!  You too, if you're a father.  If not, happy Sunday!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on June 16, 2013, 11:14:56 AM
Ashdod, Caelum and Oceania ( :P ) are out too.
Man is in trouble.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on June 16, 2013, 11:26:46 AM
Fraternal greetings to my fellow oppressed pretenders from the people's republic of Ermor. We continue the struggle against the running dog lackeys of the independent territories.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on June 16, 2013, 11:34:48 AM

 Most Holy Marignon is still around.
 We see a very big octopus in the coast. We politely invite him to not make a landing anywhere near our blessed lands :)
 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 16, 2013, 11:51:29 AM
Happy Father's Day to all you dads out there!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 16, 2013, 05:48:50 PM
Happy gaming everyone.  I've gone AI as there is no hope for me. 


Beware lightning spam and thugs.  I was totally unprepared for this horror, hopefully you will do better.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 17, 2013, 09:28:19 AM
Lots of nations around Eriu are folding!

That's like what, Machaka, Vanheim, Ashedod?

Lucky you byrdman :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on June 17, 2013, 10:39:30 AM
Well to be fair, I'm the reason Ashdod and Vanheim are folding.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 17, 2013, 11:00:27 AM
Who is (or was) on the western islands with T'ien Chi? I've forgotten.

We're about to have a rather consolidated alliance block westward it seems. Twill be interesting to see whether the alliance holds, and/or how those of us farther westward will be able to aid allies farther eastward.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ubercat on June 17, 2013, 02:33:17 PM
I, playing Jotunheim, share the western islands with Tien Chi.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 17, 2013, 03:07:08 PM
Yes, a very 'consolidated' block of 'forgotten' western allies  :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on June 17, 2013, 03:38:09 PM

 Which are the nations involved in this Alliance thing? I don't get the exact picture very well.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 17, 2013, 04:02:35 PM
At least people are posting again. Yay!:)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 17, 2013, 06:04:54 PM
Yes, a very 'consolidated' block of 'forgotten' western allies  :D

I don't seem to recall allying with Jotenheim. ;) Vanheim, sort of, Jotenheim, not.

However, if Tien Chi is allied with them, that's fine with me. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on June 18, 2013, 11:15:35 AM
In fact, it's something like 6v1v1v1v1... ;D ?

Is it really a shared victory game? Will you win as 3/4/5 differents gods?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 18, 2013, 11:34:32 AM
In fact, it's something like 6v1v1v1v1... ;D ?

Is it really a shared victory game? Will you win as 3/4/5 differents gods?

From my limited experience of 4 MP Dominions 3 games, the formation of mid-game nation blocks in this game is exactly similar to my other games that lack shared victory alliance.

I would go as far to say some sort of nation blocs are an emergent property of mid-game dominions MP games. Forming nation blocks, to ensure you the upper hand in any war against nations who remain solo. Of course, come late game, the blocs, at least it seems in non-shared alliance victory games, dissolve some 2-3 years later. We'll see how it goes in this game!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Faux on June 18, 2013, 11:38:02 AM
In fact, it's something like 6v1v1v1v1... ;D ?

Is it really a shared victory game? Will you win as 3/4/5 differents gods?

Just an observation from a player that's not participating in this game; agreeing on a shared victory when a victory condition like that hasn't been specified before starting the game is quite rude. When this happens you basically have a fixed alliance swarming other players and then, sticking to their arbitrary alliance, abandoning the game while it's still clearly in progress. It can prove to be very annoying to other players, even those who have already been defeated.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on June 18, 2013, 12:28:28 PM
^Thank you for that comment. 


The other flaw with this game that affected me personally was the experience levels of the players involved.  I should have found a game with players who have the same skill level as I do.  I joined this one knowing that quite a few players are very proficient with this game figuring I'd learn something.  I was wrong and instead what I got was absolutely annihilated without any chance of doing damage.  What did I learn?  I learned that A) I will only play PBEM games with people at the same skill level as I am until I become more proficient B) when playing with others who's skill level exceeds your own you learn nothing in this game.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: ScottWAR on June 18, 2013, 12:39:29 PM
Not going to get my turn in....had to reinstall windows last night....and am just now getting everything reinstalled. Im dead anyway..........so if possible go ahead and set me as AI.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on June 18, 2013, 12:43:16 PM
In fact, it's something like 6v1v1v1v1... ;D ?

Is it really a shared victory game? Will you win as 3/4/5 differents gods?

Given that we are 20 minutes from turn time and that in addition to  the recent mass exodus 2 players are unsubmitted I think  6v1v1v1v1.. might be somewhat optimistic.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on June 18, 2013, 12:49:02 PM
Cheers Scottwar sorry never had a chance to test my Ermor vixens against your troops. Good luck with the computer, as someone who suffered a nightmare recently with a faulty motherboard on my new build computer while trying to get my turns in I know how distracting it is.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 18, 2013, 01:29:28 PM
My recollection is that the game's victory conditions of shared alliance victory was stated before the game started.

Unfortunately, it seems many people are blaming the victory conditions for the number of allied nations in this game. These people are in for an awakening when they play standard victory games and find as I did, that midgame is dominated by adhoc alliances.

W8 I agree about differing skill levels and that's why I suggested before we started that we make two games instead on one massive one. Hopefully everyone learned something from this experience.

An analogy from history: Hitler and Stalin hated each other and wanted to be the sole victor, but they happily temporarily allied with each other and carved Poland up. As long as there are more than 2 nations in a game, there will always be adhoc alliances, regardless of victory conditions.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Beelzeboss on June 18, 2013, 02:26:31 PM
I didn't manage to get my turn. I had to work late unexpected. I'm still in the game :).
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on June 18, 2013, 02:35:35 PM
Anyway Scott, you died this turn.
It was a pleasure fighting with you! I hope it's not the last time we are facing each other ;) .

I wasn't blaming this shared victory alliance or something, I was just asking, becasue it seemed strange to me, I didn't heard about that.
Thi said, you will not win that easily, and I hope that if you finish all together, you'll end up stabbing the back of each other :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Faux on June 18, 2013, 02:41:19 PM
My recollection is that the game's victory conditions of shared alliance victory was stated before the game started.

Unfortunately, it seems many people are blaming the victory conditions for the number of allied nations in this game. These people are in for an awakening when they play standard victory games and find as I did, that midgame is dominated by adhoc alliances.

W8 I agree about differing skill levels and that's why I suggested before we started that we make two games instead on one massive one. Hopefully everyone learned something from this experience.

An analogy from history: Hitler and Stalin hated each other and wanted to be the sole victor, but they happily temporarily allied with each other and carved Poland up. As long as there are more than 2 nations in a game, there will always be adhoc alliances, regardless of victory conditions.

Still, in my opinion, having a group of six nations declare an allied victory kind of defeats the whole purpose of playing Dominions 3 multiplayer, both roleplay- and gameplay-wise. After all the game is about the one last remaining pretender ascending to true godhood. I understand that there are players who might enjoy shared victory games and I respect their choice, but personally I'd never play in one of them. Alliances are an important part of the multiplayer experience for sure but I think the games should carry on to the bitter end.

I apologise if I'm derailing this thread with my rambling :). This discussion might be better left to a separate thread if need be.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 18, 2013, 02:47:15 PM
My recollection is that the game's victory conditions of shared alliance victory was stated before the game started.

Unfortunately, it seems many people are blaming the victory conditions for the number of allied nations in this game. These people are in for an awakening when they play standard victory games and find as I did, that midgame is dominated by adhoc alliances.

W8 I agree about differing skill levels and that's why I suggested before we started that we make two games instead on one massive one. Hopefully everyone learned something from this experience.

An analogy from history: Hitler and Stalin hated each other and wanted to be the sole victor, but they happily temporarily allied with each other and carved Poland up. As long as there are more than 2 nations in a game, there will always be adhoc alliances, regardless of victory conditions.

Still, in my opinion, having a group of six nations declare an allied victory kind of defeats the whole purpose of playing Dominions 3 multiplayer, both roleplay- and gameplay-wise. After all the game is about the one last remaining pretender ascending to true godhood. I understand that there are players who might enjoy shared victory games and I respect their choice, but personally I'd never play in one of them. Alliances are an important part of the multiplayer experience for sure but I think the games should carry on to the bitter end.

I apologise if I'm derailing this thread with my rambling :). This discussion might be better left to a separate thread if need be.

As far as I know, I don't know of six nations are allied. You know only for certain if there is a multiple front war against one nation then obviously that is a de facto alliance. Or if the alliances are public announced.

So far, the closest thing that comes to alliance is the fact that I declared a defensive pact with Vanheim (though that is NOT an alliance), and Tien Chi, Jotenheim, and Ulm's public attack on Machaka. But as I posted previously, Machaka did that to himself by aggressive expanding and blocking off the entire coast for no particularly good or sound reason.

Jason likes to make a lot of noises and call his non-aggression pacts allies from my experience, and I wouldn't be calling him out but for the fact that people seem to strangely take his words at face value. I say strange because his public messages often have mixed messages, such as his last one :)

Cheers!

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on June 18, 2013, 03:06:06 PM
Machaka did that to himself by aggressive expanding and blocking off the entire coast for no particularly good or sound reason.



explain this to me please
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on June 18, 2013, 03:18:10 PM

 As I don't know exactly what is going with the supposed alliance, I have some thoughts on why it would very bad if something like that is happening.
 
  Warning: I'm on the assumption that a six nation alliance currently exist, which is probably not the case. But it may apply for lower numbers of nations involved.

  To be honest, even when I've seen before the formation of alliances in different games, there are some differences:

  1 Alliances seem to follow the pattern of "surviving against a greater evil". Someone is going to win and end the game, so we must gather our forces (which we wouldn't do in normal conditions, as we are competing gods) to survive this threat. But who is the greater evil here? If an alliance is formed even before addressing the threat, I can understand how other players feel like being precluded from winning the game. As one may ask: against whom the alliance is forming? I dare to say, with no clear public enemy, the alliance takes form against all the other players. And given most players are "on their own", they are left in clear disadvantage for playing the game.
  (And by greater evil I mean some going-to-conquer-all nation, not any big nation around)

 2 I've never seen an alliance as big as six players.  What options are left for the players who don't belong to the alliance? Just form an equivalent block, which may not appeal to everyone. And to bring down the alliance becomes a very difficult task.

  I would understand if some minor nations ally to give themselves better chances. Or if a minor power helps a bigger one in order to try to make some gains for itself. But if we're talking about 3, 4, 5 or more nations, (many of them in good shape to hold against anybody on its own? I lack more info here), forming a block, I really feel it would be kind of unfair.



Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 18, 2013, 03:25:28 PM
Machaka did that to himself by aggressive expanding and blocking off the entire coast for no particularly good or sound reason.



explain this to me please

Many people prefer to conquer indies over declaring war. If you block off a nation's indie expansion, you force them to declare war on someone. I'm going to reveal some game information, much of it already public, but I think it's important and useful to discuss expansion strategy.

Jotenheim, T'ien Chi were located on the islands and were land powers. They could only expand to the mainland:

Jotenheim was blocked by Ermor to the north, T'ien Chi to the south, and you to the east.

T'ien Chi was blocked by Jotenheim in the north, Ulm in the south, and you to the east.

Ulm, also a land power, was blocked off by T'ien Chi to the north, Atlantis to the east, and you to the northeast.

And when I say you blocked their expansion, it wasn't that there was 1 province that all three nations bordered. All nations had multiple angles of attack on different provinces of yours. The logical action, for all three nations, was to declare war in such a fashion as to maximize their chances of success. And most easily won war is if all three teamed up on you, which is what they did. Geek, your capital was far from the coast. It seems, from my perspective, your beeline to take the entire coast put you in the crosshairs of three nations who had to go to war to expand.

I know when I play, sometimes I will purposely not take that 1 extra province, to ensure that I don't border a big bad nation - if you don't border a nation, they can't easily go to war against you or team up against you.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on June 18, 2013, 03:58:40 PM
i aggressively expanded in a war game?

i took indy nations faster than others?

i came to a coast and stopped and im supposed to know or care whats happening on the other side of the sea?

im supposed to have sympathy for those that got their second?

im sorry is this kerrplunk? or did i read the name on the game box wrong?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 18, 2013, 04:43:56 PM

 2 I've never seen an alliance as big as six players.  What options are left for the players who don't belong to the alliance? Just form an equivalent block, which may not appeal to everyone. And to bring down the alliance becomes a very difficult task.

  I would understand if some minor nations ally to give themselves better chances. Or if a minor power helps a bigger one in order to try to make some gains for itself. But if we're talking about 3, 4, 5 or more nations, (many of them in good shape to hold against anybody on its own? I lack more info here), forming a block, I really feel it would be kind of unfair.

At the end of the day, I think you recognize what's going here.

-If you are about primarily winning the game and want to gain every possible non-cheating advantage (fair or unfair) you're going to form alliances.

-If you are about primarily role-playing and/or having fair battles, you probably will do poorly in a free for all game involving diplomacy as long as there are some other players who are willing to form alliances (including de facto temporary alliances, such as Germany/Russia gobbling up Poland).

That doesn't mean you can't mix and match, alliances and roleplaying, or vice versa. But which one you care about more is going to dictate your approach to diplomacy in the game.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on June 18, 2013, 05:34:22 PM

 Yes, but I was trying to say is that forming alliances and forming blocks are different things. I agree that any player trying to win the game will probable make use of allies, as most 1vs1 wars are non efficient regarding the resources required; much easier to speed the process with an ally. But I would assume that most of these are "de facto temporary alliances", which one will drop once they are no longer useful. I don't see anything bad in 2 or more nations grouping up against one; it's the diplomacy game.

 But forming a defensive block against future wars (and I meant a big one, 3 or more nations involved) changes the metagame as it forces the rest of players into playing the nation block game; specially on a map as big as this one, where such a block will extend to large portions of the map. 

  That said, the move is probably still valid in the diplomacy field. However, if the block is aiming for an allied victory, that should've been stated in the winning conditions at the start.  In any case, if such a block forms, I strongly suggest that the rest of the players act as soon as possible against it, given the consequences it has in the long run.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Phobos on June 18, 2013, 05:36:28 PM
The object of the game is to have fun.

When a large percentage of the players in a game collaborate to play the circle-jerk version kingmaker, it makes every other player a lame duck.  That may or may not be fun for those in the circle, as once you're in, your only option is to keep jerking with a smile, or get stomped by a bunch of wankers.

It obviously is not fun for some of those that realise that they are lame ducks.

I don't care, either way.  Fighting on multiple fronts is entertaining for me.

I will point out that group victories are a houserule for this game.  Normally, there can only be one winner.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 18, 2013, 05:47:54 PM
Just throwing some options out there: I'm completely in support of immediately changing the victory conditions to one nation only.

(I don't think my game strategy would have progressed any differently since we're still in mid-game, but I can't speak for others)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on June 18, 2013, 11:55:29 PM
The object of the game is to have fun.

When a large percentage of the players in a game collaborate to play the circle-jerk version kingmaker, it makes every other player a lame duck.  That may or may not be fun for those in the circle, as once you're in, your only option is to keep jerking with a smile, or get stomped by a bunch of wankers.

It obviously is not fun for some of those that realise that they are lame ducks.

poetry, and right in every way
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on June 19, 2013, 12:05:07 AM
^ +1 What undercovergeek said

I would support Elitesix's idea although I don't think it will make a blind bit of difference to the current game as the damage is done in terms of dropped empires and loss of interest. I remember playing this kind of game years ago via snail mail and even then the role of alliances were a major sticking point. They are always going to happen and dealing with this is part of the game. However this game was setup specifically as a newbie friendly game and with hindsight maybe all players classed as experienced should have been specifically excluded from multi nation alliances at the start. The gulf between experienced and newbie in Dominions is just so great that  I can understand the frustration when you hand crafted empire gets taken apart in a nanosecond by someone who knows the exact combination of spells required to decimate your nation. Particularly if the aggressor is part of some collective.
Overall I've really enjoyed playing this game and I think without exception enjoyed the contribution of all those taking part. However the mass defections and bad feeling engendered has certainly lessened my anticipation of the next move and I think it is unfortunate that a newbie game should result in so many players no wanting to take part in a similar game again.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 19, 2013, 06:46:58 AM
i aggressively expanded in a war game?

i took indy nations faster than others?

i came to a coast and stopped and im supposed to know or care whats happening on the other side of the sea?

im supposed to have sympathy for those that got their second?

im sorry is this kerrplunk? or did i read the name on the game box wrong?

Not knowing or caring what was happening on the other side of the sea, meant you were putting yourself in place for having multiple nations teaming up to expand into your territory. Setting up a mere NAP# only means opponent agree to chivalrously warn you three turns in advance before starting hostilities (and vice versa). Which is what happened.

You didn't do anything ethically wrong, but aggressively expanding in a wargame means you had better be prepared to defeat everyone you aggressively expand into, unless you diplomatically arrange solid alliances of some sort.

Otherwise you have nothing to complain about if they decide to fight you simultaneously. Which couldn't be necessarily avoided even if the game was declared alliance free from the outset--even the AI can attack a nation with multiple competing nations. Whereas this game was declared alliance friendly from the outset (even with SVAs). Which you knew and actually discussed with other people before gamestart.

In a game with diplomacy, even if the diplo is outside the game engine per se, playing the diplomacy is important, or else playing the game so that you don't need diplomacy is important. I was going to play Gamin of Oceania as a non-diplomatic nation (partly for rp reasons and partly to help offset the huge advantages an ocean nation has compared to land nations, but also partly because an ocean nation has some chance to fight a non-diplo game in a diplo game.) Switching to Ulm in a diplo game, I pronto started looking around to decide who to make diplomatic deals with.

Your faction was the most logical one to be left standing when the music stopped, since from a pragmatic strategic perspective I could arrange more effective pressure against you than against anyone else I had contact with, and from an rp standpoint my character and nation would be more likely to go to war with a spider-worshiping deathy blood mage faction than the other alternatives. (Also in a meta sense factions like that tend on average to get targeted more quickly, so betting on an alliance against you was a good idea from that direction, too.)


Could this have been avoided in a non-alliance game? Not necessarily. You were pressuring a large number of nations at one time (call it bad luck at rolling an initial position), so at any given time odds would have been good you would have been fighting counterpushes from more than one nation, and odds would have been almost as good that more than one of those counterpushes would be moving along a similar axis of advance.

Fast and effective expansion means opening yourself up to more threats sooner, unless you're an ocean nation who can expect limited reprisal capability, or unless you luck into having only one or two nearby opponents (e.g. starting in a corner and working toward the center). Success makes you squeaky, and the squeaky wheel gets the hammer, or words to that effect.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 19, 2013, 07:22:44 AM
However this game was setup specifically as a newbie friendly game and with hindsight maybe all players classed as experienced should have been specifically excluded from multi nation alliances at the start.

Of course, being a newbie friendly game was one reason we agreed on alliances; but I did originally set up the game to specifically exclude experienced player alliances from the start: I moved experienced players (myself included) into ocean territories who were forbidden to start alliances. And I was going to play my pretender that way even though more people came back wanting alliances available to all nations including underwater ones, than spoke up in favor of it.

(Then I got put out of the game (I myself worked hard to set up) in like six turns. :) But that was okay, that's how the game works sometimes.)


The diplomatic game is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL if a game allows alliances. Right now, assuming for purposes of argument there is a 6 nation SVA (which technically there isn't, I really only know of one explicit SVA alliance between two nations despite my politicking -- but I also know that the wording of some alliances amounts to an SVA, I'm just not sure of the intentions involved), the other nations had better be ganging up pronto into their own bloc.

Does the game engine recognize an SVA win? Not at all, that's a meta-game construct of the players.

Does an SVA win mean the game is actually over? Not unless the players agree they want to move on to something else; their SVA may be an agreement to fight among each other once everyone else is down. Or they may change their minds about that later. They could even technically change their minds about it earlier, since there's nothing really to enforce an alliance or punish breaking an alliance other than the breaker being marked as untrustworthy for future games.


Also keep in mind that any long-term game can easily start to lose interest among the players who want to be doing something new with their time; and even with no alliances at all players who are being crushed will have less motivation to continue, which is entirely natural. Knowing when to tip the king (and move on to something else) is important for everyone's relative enjoyment. Just remember to set the faction to AI and send a last turn to the server, so the admin doesn't have to manually do that.


Anyway, the next large game (when I get around to it, which may be after this game finishes) will be newbie friendly in a different way: no alliances allowed at all, but the game is physically large enough (in theory anyway, there could still be unlucky placement rolls) for everyone to expand to a large power and test out things they want to try. That's the whole point of Groghawk. And I may set up a version of the map to guarantee a certain radius of provinces between each capitol. (Or ideally I may hand the reins over to someone else as I've played a lot of Dom3 recently and would like to spend time working on something else.)

On the other hand, small games can and do run faster, even though that means players also lose faster. But players are more likely to keep interest in the game over the proportionate long haul (because proportionately the haul isn't so long). We've had several smaller games set up after Groghammer for that purpose, too.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 19, 2013, 07:26:13 AM
How about this as an option?

I really would like to spend my limited free time playing/working on something other than Dom3 for a while.

So if anyone is unhappy with the game and/or has been put out of this one, I will voluntarily donate both my current games, here and at Dom of Grogs (where I'm playing Late Age Jomon, just getting into a war with C'tis, with one strong SVA ally but kind of iffy whether I'm going to be able to stop the C'tis steamroller).

The first two players who ask for them may have those games. :) I'll reset the turns to be sent to your email(s) instead.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 21, 2013, 06:40:47 AM
That damn goblin province defense is keeping me down...goblins have killed so many toads :(

Time to send in the big guns.... Zag'mu, Doom of the Goblins! >:(

(https://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/excerpts_1116.jpg)

(Apparently he likes elves too but don't worry Eriu we will keep him in check)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on June 21, 2013, 10:20:08 AM
We aren't worried. We have special anti-grendelkin defenses.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 23, 2013, 10:26:13 AM
Zag'mu died horribly. He killed over half a dozen Goblin commanders, nearly a hundred Goblin troops before coming to his demise.

His sacrifice will be honored in the temples of Azag as unfortunately he did not live long enough to enter the Hall of Fame.

ooc Phobos kudos man you're putting up a stubborn capital defense.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: KingoftheScots on June 24, 2013, 06:17:51 AM
So, i did something stupid yesterday. Forgot to email in my turn. And as i'm sitting on the train to work, i remember! But i won't be home before the timer ticks over, sorry for stalling a turn.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 24, 2013, 07:10:48 AM
You aren't the only player running a bit late -- I just checked. :) (Mictlan and Pythium are the other two players.)

I've postponed it by 24 hours, so you should have all afternoon and night to get it done. If you can't let me know pronto. The timer will reset to 48 hours automatically as soon as everyone posts a turn or it stales either way.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: KingoftheScots on June 24, 2013, 06:05:25 PM
Just sent in both turns. Thanks a bunch!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on June 25, 2013, 06:47:34 PM
Whoops, Llama burped when sending my turn--haven't got it yet, and no more time to do it tonight. While I probably have time to do it tomorrow afternoon, just to be safe I'm postponing the game by 24 hours.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Ubercat on June 25, 2013, 07:07:01 PM
I just took my turn 38.

I don't know when turn 37 was processed but I never received turn 38. I happened to go to the servers game page to see where we stood and was surprised to see that it was still waiting for my turn. I had to request a turn resend. I noticed that it's still waiting for Pythium, Marignon, Eriu, Mictlan, Ulm, and Shinuyama.

If any of you are in the same boat as me and never received you turn, you should request a resend. http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Groghammer (http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=Groghammer)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on June 27, 2013, 07:53:30 PM
Whoops, Llama burped when sending my turn--haven't got it yet, and no more time to do it tonight. While I probably have time to do it tomorrow afternoon, just to be safe I'm postponing the game by 24 hours.

I didn't get the last turn either for some reason, sorry if it caused a hiccup in game.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 27, 2013, 09:49:35 PM
gg Phobos. mad respect man.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Phobos on June 28, 2013, 12:06:08 AM
It's not over yet. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Vlam on June 30, 2013, 10:50:44 AM
What happened ?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on June 30, 2013, 02:01:21 PM
Vlam: The Hall of Fame says it all.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 03, 2013, 08:42:35 AM
I'm going to boot the timeclock ahead to Monday night central US time, in order to help any American players make sure they don't feel like they have to rush to get their turns in over the Independence Day weekend.

(You can still rush to get your turns in, of course. Just no pressure to choose between game and family/friends/other-vacation.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on July 03, 2013, 01:36:09 PM
Hi Jason,
           Did you or someone else need the extension tonight? If so fine, otherwise I'm just wondering why you didn't wait till after tonight's turn to extend the deadline. This would have allowed us to get the scheduled turn in which I actually put a couple of hour aside for and which now find rather less need for. Then people would have been aware of the longer period before the next turn and could have gone off to celebrate you acquisition of the natives territory in peace ;) Speaking for myself only, and quiet happy if it turns out that the others think otherwise, I find such a long delay at short notice does little for my immersion in the game.
I know the game will trigger if everyone submits a turn but past experience has tended to suggest that this does not happen and we all sit around waiting for one person who has forgotten, lost interest, died or been abducted by aliens.
Just my 2 cents worth in the interests of keeping momentum
Cheers
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on July 03, 2013, 01:54:57 PM
Well if everyone has time tonight, they can still get in their turns. I for one, am glad for the extension though. I will try to get it in tonight, but I have evening plans and won't be home until late tomorrow and will then be immediately leaving again and will be gone all weekend. If I don't get it in tonight, it won't be til Monday.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on July 03, 2013, 02:17:06 PM
Well if everyone has time tonight, they can still get in their turns. I for one, am glad for the extension though. I will try to get it in tonight, but I have evening plans and won't be home until late tomorrow and will then be immediately leaving again and will be gone all weekend. If I don't get it in tonight, it won't be til Monday.

 But presumably you were planning to put your turn in tonight or did you request a delay? Sorry to bore everyone with this but I'm just trying to understand where we are coming from. I have no issue with delays but would find it much more agreeable if anyone needing one posted a quick note on here. Otherwise it like the magic fairy has been in the night.

 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 03, 2013, 02:33:14 PM
Well if everyone has time tonight, they can still get in their turns. I for one, am glad for the extension though. I will try to get it in tonight, but I have evening plans and won't be home until late tomorrow and will then be immediately leaving again and will be gone all weekend. If I don't get it in tonight, it won't be til Monday.

 But presumably you were planning to put your turn in tonight or did you request a delay? Sorry to bore everyone with this but I'm just trying to understand where we are coming from. I have no issue with delays but would find it much more agreeable if anyone needing one posted a quick note on here.

+1
It's always important to explain if the delay was on request, the delay length requested.

And I think it's to be expected that in a game of this size, there is going to be around one stale a turn. Looking back over the staling logs confirms this. One stale in 15 players in one turn I think is more conducive to a fun newbie game than waiting and waiting for everyone to put their turn in, when the turns are a week apart. After all, there is something to be said to keep the game moving, and one stale isn't the end of the world!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 03, 2013, 07:50:28 PM
As it happened, I wasn't sure I was going to get back in time tonight myself, and that turned out to be true -- I only just now got back (and have played my DomGrog turn, and am about to play Groghammer), but I would have been three hours stale.

I didn't know for sure this was going to be a problem, but it occurred to me that other people might have holiday issues, so I figured I should err on the side of caution.

I did however explain the reason for the delay: Americans have a busy and long holiday weekend coming up and seeing as I'm the one currently responsible for time crunching I didn't want to be the one pressuring someone else to play or stale during the somewhat chaotic time that occurs on a major holiday.

Obviously, this is not an issue for non-American players, but I have always been willing to grant extensions when other people are going to be out on vacation or holiday (official or otherwise). Someone just has to let me know. In this case, I let me know (and let the thread know), and having heard my request I granted the delay, for myself and others in my position this weekend.

"Such nepotism makes me tired," as the great American author Mark Twain might say in response. But to him I would reply:




(Possibly with some lyrical modifications...)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on July 03, 2013, 11:51:55 PM
No worries Jason, and thank you.  And we all managed to make the turn anyway by the look of it. :)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on July 04, 2013, 01:29:20 AM
Hi Jason, I don't have a problem with you lot wanting a chance to have a beer and celebrate your holiday. The only reason I raised it was that I was unclear if anyone needed it. Had you message added 'I may not myself be able make tonight's deadline' I would have understood why we were having the delay this (last)  turn as well as the next.( Which you did explain. ) With 2 stales in the last turn I had visions of a long wait till Tuesday. However I'm glad I raised the subject as we now know that byrdman is away till Monday night and can do the next turn at leisure.
As Huw said, everyone got their turn in within a few hours of the deadline so the Aliens must hast have been on vacation as well.
Have a nice holiday all
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: PsiSoldier on July 04, 2013, 10:59:23 AM
Can we please set the clock back to 48 hours? We have already greatly surpassed what I believe you intended for the timer to be set to when you changed it for the fourth.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: PsiSoldier on July 04, 2013, 11:21:14 AM
By the way I think you guys are way off base with all your talk of alliances in this game anyways.. I have NEVER played any Dominions game in which the game ended with some sort of allied victory with the exception of a game that was setup as teams of 2 from the start in which every nation in the game had a teammate they were allied with but that was of course part of the conditions at the start of the game.   

Essentially in all games temporary alliances form through the use of NAP's and players use diplomacy for their advantage to target the nation they believe to be the biggest threat and progressively changing allegiances as one nation or another is defeated and as circumstances change NAP's or alliances are broken as one player tries to achieve ultimate victory..  Of course by that point or shortly after most players tend to surrender and loose interest in the game and I am often the only one in the game still wanting to fight (whether I am the ultimate power or not) which sucks.  But there have been a number of times when I was reduced to only one province and managed to come back and retake large numbers of provinces before that said crash happened and everyone quit.

From my experience in games with score graphs on this is why I usually try to maintain my nation in a solid third place position until I am ready to take on all comers and then increase my strength in area's that are more threatening on the graphs. For example playing MA Ermor I tend not to reanimate huge numbers of undead undead until I am either seriously threatened myself or until I am ready to take on all other nations that may feel threatened by me.    Not such a big deal in games with score graphs off but it still applies in some ways.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 04, 2013, 08:04:43 PM
Can we please set the clock back to 48 hours? We have already greatly surpassed what I believe you intended for the timer to be set to when you changed it for the fourth.

I'll set it back Saturday night, so it'll go for Monday night Central Standard Time. I found out how to pull the timer back, too. Ignore what it looks like right now, that isn't real.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on July 06, 2013, 01:11:43 AM
The other flaw with this game that affected me personally was the experience levels of the players involved.  I should have found a game with players who have the same skill level as I do.  I joined this one knowing that quite a few players are very proficient with this game figuring I'd learn something.  I was wrong and instead what I got was absolutely annihilated without any chance of doing damage.  What did I learn?  I learned that A) I will only play PBEM games with people at the same skill level as I am until I become more proficient B) when playing with others who's skill level exceeds your own you learn nothing in this game.

I would be very interested if someone - Jason? - were to set up and host a newb only game where people like W8 and I, and a few others from the sound of it, would be able to just slowly expand, explore, and eventually get into some of the pvp that we are finding very difficult.  It's not necessary, of course, but it would be a nice game and the one I envision would be open field for newbs to ask questions and get answers from the community.  A dream, really, but maybe a possibility... even if it didn't happen for some time.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on July 06, 2013, 03:00:18 AM
I think that was the intention with the massive map he planned so you could try out tactics and experiment against 30 to 40 indys before deciding on your best course of attack

The biggest problem you'll find is that there are so few new games starting that anyone and everyone will jump on a new game whether it says newbie or not - not all, there are honourable people out there - just some

The game should be an open forum of experimentation and practically devoid of 'competition' really whilst new players get their feet, work out magic and forging, ask questions - but you will get someone who will go through you like a knife through butter with all the tricks of the trade who doesn't belong in the game
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on July 06, 2013, 03:23:17 AM
Geek, you're absolutely right, but hopefully the problem you describe isn't insurmountable.  I'm sure we get our heads together and work out a really newbie-friendly system.  I'd certainly be interested in the game myself.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on July 06, 2013, 04:12:44 AM
then maybe lay the facts out right at the start - that should be enough to put most fake newbies off because they wont be getting any game action - Elite6 for instance already mentioned he wouldnt be interested (not that hes a fake newbie! (although hes not a newbie!)). Describe right at the top what its for and be prepared to kick those that just go straight for a victory - may be all indy troops to be conquered first, may be theres 6 players and 240 territories, EVERYONE should be free to take their 40 at their own pace - do not take your 40 and then start encroaching on other peoples lands until everyone agrees. There is no big race to the finish line on, have the score graphs on - discuss what they mean and and help you to understand where your place in the game is with them - have at least 1 guy who knows what hes doing as a mentor - like we discussed the other night!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 06, 2013, 05:40:26 AM
I've only been a part of four MP dominions games, one which I let you sub in for geek at what turn 24, the other three (including this one) are ongoing. I was definitely a mp newbie as I mentioned in this thread before we started, but there's a distinction between mp newbie and sp newbie.

I was definitely not a sp newbie. I had probably logged at least 50+ hours single player. SP definitely let's you learn how to perfect your early game, but not much more than that.

This game is very complex and deep and even slight disparities in skill or inexperience make huge differences in the outcome of warfare. Also, so much of the game turns on diplomacy. That can make it very frustrating to be on the receiving end of both those things.

My advice to all the SP newbies is that you'll learn the game lot faster by playing and beating sp 1-3 times against a few ais. Do that, then jump into mp, and then it's a lot easier to figure out this immensely complex strategy game.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on July 06, 2013, 05:47:59 AM
no offense was meant - but you have mentioned exactly what i was referring to  - its clear that you and a few others know your way around Dom III a whole lot more than most people who are on here playing in newbie games which i certainly (and ill take the blame for that) understood to be new to the game not to MP - its semantics and it doesnt matter and this is the whole reason for the discussion - there are people in this game and others including me who dont know their arse from their elbow in terms what to forge, what to cast and why getting pummelled by those who are veterans of the SP game with clearly defined strategies and nation expertise. New guys in the game have never even chosen their race before let alone knwo what to do with it and there should be an MP game that allows them to get put their war trousers on without getting stomped - they learn nothing - other than lightening spam hurts, then they go away and google how to cast it only to beaten in the next MP game by someone who can counter that and google and repeat - thats not learning
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 06, 2013, 07:39:55 AM
Perhaps there is a difference in the definition of newbie as used by this community versus desura's (I found this game from a post on the desura's forums).

The definition of new or inexperienced as posted by the moderator in the aprilshowers game (the one you joined before Groghammer):

"This game is aimed at new or inexperienced players (ie. newbie friendly), and I hope it to be ideal for those new players who are looking to get their first taste of Multiplayer games. "Inexperienced" is not a term that has a strict definition, but it usually means someone who has played less than 10 MP games. and who has yet to make it to the latter stages of the game in any meaningful position (ie. they were not in contention to win). If you are regularly making it the the late game in a good position, then you are likely not that inexperienced anymore. And if you have already won a proper multiplayer game (ie. a game with 8 or more players), then you very likely know the game well enough to be stepping up to intermediate level games."

http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-3-the-awakening/forum/thread/april-showers

But I can totally understand how if you had a different understanding of what it means to be new it can be very frustrating. You really can learn a lot (and have a lot fun!) by spending a couple hours on finishing a small sp game then by jumping head first into a mp game where it would take weeks of turns to finish a game. Though the latter method may well be more fun to some, I would find t immensely frustrating to spend weeks of slow turns discovering I designed the wrong pretender or learn some other lesson about the game that I could have learned in a couple of hours of single play.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 06, 2013, 09:00:56 AM
Once I lose DomGrog (which seems soon now) I'm sure I'll be back to setting up Groghawk, which would indeed be intended for experimental expansion and no alliances.

Or, if you wanted to put it another way, every player would be allied with each other until we agreed otherwise! ;) That way there would be grounds for kicking a player who tried to start warring early.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 06, 2013, 05:30:23 PM
After reports of a few high Kings of the Deep emerging from black waters of Neverwinter and entering Ermorian towers, and a few Grand Thaumaturgies seen submerging themselves in the coastal shallows, Atlantis is happy to announce a new diplomatic measure in the interests of peace and stability of this world:

The Pact of Neverwinter
An Atlantis-Ermor Defensive Pact

Atlantis guarantees the independence of Ermor. Ermor guarantees the independence of Atlantis.

Any nation declaring war upon Atlantis or Ermor shall be effectively declaring war upon both.
Any war triggering this treaty will immediately cancel any NAP-3s that the aggressor nation has with both Atlantis and Ermor, and will be subject to immediate reprisals without the 3 turn wait period. This treaty shall not apply in the event of an offensive war initiated by Atlantis or Ermor.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on July 07, 2013, 03:02:42 AM
Incidentally, Von W8taminuten is one of the best pretender names I've seen yet! :D
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: W8taminute on July 07, 2013, 10:49:03 AM
Thanks Huw!   8)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: PsiSoldier on July 07, 2013, 11:08:56 AM
. Describe right at the top what its for and be prepared to kick those that just go straight for a victory - may be all indy troops to be conquered first, may be theres 6 players and 240 territories, EVERYONE should be free to take their 40 at their own pace - do not take your 40 and then start encroaching on other peoples lands until everyone agrees. There is no big race to the finish line on, have the score graphs on

I like this idea.   But you will need a special map such as Six Lands  Although probably bigger where each player has their owned assigned starting area and there will be no confusion over who's lands are who's.      I am an experienced player however I usually start out like a turtle because I am very cautious in my expansion and normally tend to be way behind in province count.

You could also do something where no player is allowed to begin war with any other player until a set turn as well like maybe turn 20 - 30 or somewhere in there.  That I suppose would all depend on how many provinces you went with for the map. 

One of the great things about Dominions is that you can always come up with your own special rules for games, some of my favorite games of the past have most definitely been games with strange and different rules from the norm that everyone had to abide by.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 07, 2013, 12:38:14 PM
I have set the clock back to 48 hours, so as soon as Eriu gets back and sends his turn we should be back to normal.

In regard to the new defensive alliance, I'm pretty sure I haven't sent anything against Ermor (I'm cleaning up Machaka), but some players might not read this before the next turn generates and may have placed orders for an attack on Ermor.

Assuming for hypothesis that this happens, and that the nation isn't already at war with Ermor, and that the nation doesn't want to go to war with both Ermor and Atlantis and so wouldn't have placed the order had he known, will the allies allow a pullback turn and abandonment of hostilities?

I feel like I ought to ask since I'm this game's admin, in order to head off potential problems. ;)

Relatedly, am I right in inferring that any ongoing wars with either of you will not be considered violation of the defense pact (regardless of who initiated the war)? e.g. R'yleh is already at war with Ermor (I don't know this is true, I'm just trying to think of someone nearby), does Atlantis now declare war on the other underwater nation as a result of this pact?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 07, 2013, 02:47:15 PM
Existing wars do not trigger the treaty.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 09, 2013, 06:46:41 AM
I was working on other things yesterday figuring I could do my turn this afternoon, but I didn't do my math right and so didn't notice the turn will end while I'm still at work. Consequently I've briefly postponed the game seven hours. (I notice several other players haven't sent in turns either yet, so that might be helpful to you, too, especially if you have a North or South American work schedule.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 09, 2013, 12:29:22 PM
Phobos over at the DawnGrog game notes that Llamaserver has updated to run Illwinter's 3.29 patch (http://www.illwinter.com/dom3/).

Apparently we'll all need to download and install the patch, and then replay/resend our turns to the server, just to be safe.

Consequently I'm bumping the game clock forward a couple of days, just to make sure everyone has patched and run their turn with no problems.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on July 09, 2013, 06:23:56 PM
 I think there is no need for that in this game. The current turn was generated under 3.28 and will receive turns from that version; it will also will accept turns from a 3.29 Dominions, so there is no trouble updating right now if anybody wants to.
 
 When this turns host, the llamaserver will be probably updated to 3.29 and everyone will need to update. But you will notice that as you won't be able to play a 3.29 turn in a 3.28 Dominions.

 So no need to do the turn again from scratch. At least from my perspective that sounds like real pain :P.

 Llamabeast himself has said (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=1271&st=30):

      I updated the llamaserver yesterday. All players in MP games should update now. However if you already sent in a turn using the previous version that's completely fine - dom3 handles the situation well. Basically there is no risk of updating at the wrong time.


  (I'm also giving this info based on a past Calahan post from when the server updated to the current version. See here if you want to check:  http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=927&st=240  (http://z7.invisionfree.com/Dom3mods/index.php?showtopic=927&st=240))

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 10, 2013, 09:23:25 PM
As we are about to enter endgame soon, I think now is the last chance to reconsider whether we want shared alliance victory. Once endgame starts, I think decisions will be made based on the type of victory conditions allowed that would make it too unfair to change.

I'm ok with a vote, or maybe it's already a consensus that we should only play one nation takes all.

Does anyone still even want a shared victory alliance condition? Or shall we just say only one nation can win if it holds half of the capitals (rounding down) + 1 for three turns?
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 11, 2013, 09:50:42 AM
TBH, I'm feeling a bit overloaded on Dom3 at the moment anyway. I'd like to spend my bits of free time playing something else for a while. And my corner of the world is quite covered in mutually assured peace of various sorts.

So if it's time for a shared victory, I have no complaints: I'm probably in the bloc. ;)

If it's time for the allies to consider splitting up into subfactions or whatever, then Atlantis is almost certainly going to win, as E6 can hit hard at a lot of players without us being able to hit back very feasibly. Someone else may want to deal with that challenge, but I don't.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 11, 2013, 11:01:20 AM
If you post for a sub in desura, I guarantee you'd get one in less than three days.

I'd offer to admin, but I have a bar exam coming up on July 30th. Maybe someone else can step in and volunteer.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on July 11, 2013, 11:50:19 AM

So if it's time for a shared victory, I have no complaints

It's nowhere near time for a shared victory; I think Elitesix was just saying that we should decide before the game progresses much further whether we want to allow them.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 11, 2013, 12:50:51 PM

So if it's time for a shared victory, I have no complaints

It's nowhere near time for a shared victory; I think Elitesix was just saying that we should decide before the game progresses much further whether we want to allow them.

This.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 11, 2013, 02:41:01 PM

So if it's time for a shared victory, I have no complaints

It's nowhere near time for a shared victory; I think Elitesix was just saying that we should decide before the game progresses much further whether we want to allow them.

I understood that, but if we vote to allow them (we already voted to allow them long ago before the game started, but I take this to mean deciding whether we'll end the game with them or go for the split that would presumably happen eventually), there's a huge bloc in the west which will very likely insta-win, or might as well for all practical purposes. Unless an eastern bloc sets up quickly to oppose. (Vanheim isn't in the bloc but Ermor is; but Vanheim/Ubercat is about to go on vacation for a couple of weeks at the end of the month and is looking for a sub in his games, here and elsewhere.)


I would post on Desra, E6, but I don't have an account there. Maybe I should post here... (But if someone else wants to post on Desra pointing back here, that's perfectly okay!)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 11, 2013, 02:51:10 PM
If you are using a shared alliance victory standard with this victory condition: "Victory Conditions: Whoever reaches 14 victory points first." from the OP, winning is determinate based on capitals.

I'm not in a shared victory alliance, but based on intelligence ingame and from diplomacy, I know your bloc can't mathematically have 14 capitals. I know this by simply adding up the capitals of the people I know are outside your bloc.

I'll post on desura for you.

Desura post: http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-3-the-awakening/forum/thread/sub-needed-for-groghammer

Oh, and I think we need to add some sense into the shared alliance victory. No secret alliances. Your alliance has to be publically declared at least 10 turns prior to being recognized (so if you want to keep it secret, plan on announcing it exactly 10 turns before you have 14 capitals.) Otherwise, the game just doesn't make sense. This change is effectively immediately, barring any consensus against it. It's a necessity for enjoyment of the game.

I'm also still open to revert to a normal win condition, but if we stay with SVA, we have to add a notice provision to prevent the game from ending anti-climatically in a secret SVA win.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: mkivcs on July 11, 2013, 03:04:45 PM
" there's a huge bloc in the west which will very likely insta-win, or might as well for all practical purposes. Unless an eastern bloc sets up quickly to oppose. (Vanheim isn't in the bloc but Ermor is; but Vanheim/Ubercat is about to go on vacation for a couple of weeks at the end of the month and is looking for a sub in his games, here and elsewhere.)"



Umm If Ermor is part of a massive bloc then someone must have forgotten to tell me about it!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 11, 2013, 03:21:39 PM
Well, that depends on how exactly the various alliances end up being practically interpreted.

You (Elite6) have an ongoing non-aggression alliance recognizing the independence of how many players? I can't recall if our early alliance was posted publicly or not, but I agree it's important not to have secret alliances for this purpose. So let's make a tally.

I'm in an actual SVA with T'ien Chi (where we're teaming up directly to fight joint wars), and I'm in an indeterminate non-aggression pact with you and Eiru, where we share information and maybe help one another as we feel like it but aren't obligated to team up on someone else. Jotunheim is about to go on vacation and has set up a temporary non-aggression pact with TC and I for a few weeks; unsure where that will go when he comes back, but until then we're basically allies. (I think -- I'm a bit unsure how that will work out, but for meta-game chivalry purposes TC and I have agreed not to attack Joten while he's under stewardship so long as his steward doesn't attack us.)

I know you had a mutual independence pact with Vanheim (and I think Eiru if I recall correctly, the same pact), which was basically the same thing. Vanheim went AI (partly over the diplomacy thing), so they aren't an issue anymore, but Eriu definitely is.

You have a mutual defense pact with Ermor, where if someone attacks one of you that results in a war with both of you, but you and Ermor aren't necessarily working together to expand.

Those are the ones I know about; T'ien Ch'i has a number of NAP3s but those don't count. Same is true for Eiru. I know for a fact T'ien Ch'i has no other serious alliances, not sure about Eiru, not sure about you.


Now, unless we decide to break those alliances (by mutual agreement or otherwise), what is the result? A shared peace has broken out on the western side of the continent. How many of the VPs are currently held by all of us together? (I don't know, I'm at the office for a few more minutes.)

More to the point, so long as we don't break our alliances, we might as well be a contiguous bloc operating against nations eastward, precisely because by default we have agreed not to operate against each other. For all practical purposes we might as well be in a mutual SVA (though a prickly and not entirely cooperative one. Rather like real life. ;) )

If we decide not to break up and fight one another, are we going to team up to fight the eastern nations together, or just kind of sit around developing ourselves? And even if it's the latter, will the eastern nations bloc up, or do any of them feel strong enough to oppose us?

If not, it doesn't matter whether we have the 14 VPs collectively, we still effectively win. Yay game, that's a diplomatic victory built by the players.

But that's why it's time to work out how the game will go from here.


(Edited to fix my west/east references, since I am retarded.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 11, 2013, 03:26:24 PM
Also, thanks for posting at Desura; I posted at Wargamer, too.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on July 11, 2013, 04:42:13 PM
Slow hand clap
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 11, 2013, 05:12:23 PM
Quote
I can't recall if our early alliance was posted publicly or not, but I agree it's important not to have secret alliances for this purpose. So let's make a tally.

We never had an alliance. We only have a NAP-3 with borders divided up and we haven't messaged each other for like 2 months. I did say that my relationship to the previous Ulm was very close to becoming an alliance.

Quote
You (Elite6) have an ongoing non-aggression alliance recognizing the independence of how many players? I can't recall if our early alliance was posted publicly or not, but I agree it's important not to have secret alliances for this purpose. So let's make a tally.

I'm in an actual SVA with T'ien Chi (where we're teaming up directly to fight joint wars), and I'm in an indeterminate non-aggression pact with you and Eiru, where we share information and maybe help one another as we feel like it but aren't obligated to team up on someone else.

 
Bold is wrong. I think the last time I messaged you or Eriu was months ago. I only am in one defensive pact, with Ermor.

Quote
I know you had a mutual independence pact with Vanheim (and I think Eiru if I recall correctly, the same pact), which was basically the same thing. Vanheim went AI (partly over the diplomacy thing), so they aren't an issue anymore, but Eriu definitely is.

I have a mutual defense pact with Eriu? This is news to me!

Quote
If we decide not to break up and fight one another, are we going to team up to fight the eastern nations together, or just kind of sit around developing ourselves? And even if it's the latter, will the eastern nations bloc up, or do any of them feel strong enough to oppose us?

I'm constantly at war. I have been at peace maybe like 8-9 turns in this entire game. First Oceania, then Shinuyama. When you sub'ed in, I encouraged you to continue your war against T'ien Chi or to go to war against Machaka. If you want to sit around and develop your nation, that's up to you, but that is a pretty bland way to play dominions 3.

War rages the continent. Your information, as the above inaccuracies would indicate, is inaccurate. As Ermor said earlier, your information is all wrong man.

Going back to the SVA Issue: No one has posted in support of SVA yet. Let's wait and hear back, but unless there are objections let's turn this to a standard 1 nation takes all victory on 7-14-12 12:00 GMT.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Huw the Poo on July 11, 2013, 05:42:03 PM
For the record, my stance hasn't changed.  I recognise that temporary alliances are beneficial with regard to early-mid game expansion, and preventing disappointing early exits.  This is about everyone having a fair crack of the whip...an enjoyable game in other words.

But I think that a shared alliance victory involving several nations is a bit silly and goes against the spirit of the game.  I fully expect any ally of mine to eventually stab me in the back - whether that's done gallantly or not is up to them.

The game is designed for a single victor, and the manual also says as much.

That said, I recognise that the rules for this particular game do not state that there can be only one winner so I won't complain if everyone votes for a shared alliance victory.  But for what it's worth, I favour the single victor outcome.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 11, 2013, 06:05:27 PM
Slow hand clap

Undercovergeek, I'm sorry about what happened to you this game. Since you joined Aprilshowers before this game with a different definition of newbie, I didn't realize you were a sp newbie and I wouldn't have asked others to attack you.

My apologies mate. 
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: undercovergeek on July 11, 2013, 06:30:41 PM
Lol, its not that - although I appreciate it - my comment was simply to indicate that with all the secret alliances, secret secret ones, public secret ones, public public, mutual defences pacts in secret and public any poor sod that joined this newbie game to learn how to cast fireballs or forge a hammer is well and truly fkd - the game looks to be all over the place and that many devious plots have been plotted the devious plotters don't frikking know which side they're on  :P
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: Lunaje on July 11, 2013, 07:47:56 PM

 I can do admin work if needed, but only if Jason feels like giving control to someone else; is his game after all, and there are players who admin even if not participating in the action. In any case, I've done admin work in the past, so shouldn't be much of a trouble.

 Regarding the shared victory, I'm against it, my position is pretty much what Huw said. But I'm thinking the map will win the game, as its hugeness casts an automatic Rigor Mortis on all the human players, and lets them slowly die of exhaustion as they nations grow bigger and their management duties go through the roof :P.

Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: claes on July 11, 2013, 08:46:50 PM
I'm going out of town for the weekend and since it's been taking me a great deal of time to complete my turns I might stale this next turn, just a fair warning.  I won't have as much time as its been taking me to complete my turns until Monday, so heads up.  I don't mind if you continue on, just letting you know ahead of time.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: byrdman57 on July 12, 2013, 12:01:04 AM
I'm going to be off the grid this weekend until Sunday evening. My current turn is in, but if the following turn is going to host before Sunday night, I'll need an extension.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 12, 2013, 01:05:07 PM
Quote from: Jason
I can't recall if our early alliance was posted publicly or not, but I agree it's important not to have secret alliances for this purpose. So let's make a tally.

We never had an alliance. We only have a NAP-3 with borders divided up and we haven't messaged each other for like 2 months. I did say that my relationship to the previous Ulm was very close to becoming an alliance.

I keep a very close eye on people who NAP-3 with me; in fact I rarely accept NAP-3s, especially in a game with a possible diplomatic win condition. At no time did you mention a NAP-3 with me nor mention having one with my predecessor; whereas you did divide up spheres of influence on the map with my predecessor (and negotiated points with me afterward to clarify what you did and did not agree to divide up with my predecessor). You also shared intelligence information with an eye toward encouraging and aiding warfare on other nations. These are not the actions of a mere NAP-3 agreement of chivalrous alert before hostilities (though admittedly there's nothing saying NAP-3 adherents couldn't also do that).

Quote from: Jason
I'm in an actual SVA with T'ien Chi (where we're teaming up directly to fight joint wars), and I'm in an indeterminate non-aggression pact with you and Eiru, where we share information and maybe help one another as we feel like it but aren't obligated to team up on someone else.

 
Bold is wrong. I think the last time I messaged you or Eriu was months ago. I only am in one defensive pact, with Ermor.

Bold is literally correct, as you felt like sharing information for waging war on other nations and made no determinate NA limits; Eiru and Ulm aren't kissing but we share info sometimes and don't have explicit NA turn limits. I didn't claim we were in a defensive pact; you've made it clear for some time we aren't in an SVA per se, but you didn't make it clear we were in a NAP-3, which led me to believe we were in a somewhat stronger alliance. I called it an indeterminate non-aggression pact. If you had ever clarified NAP-3 at any time, I would have said NAP-3 (and I would have been regarding you as an enemy to be protecting myself against), as I would want as many other players as possible to know the situation whenever hostilities commenced. (Similarly I grandfathered in my predecessor's NAP-3 with Machaka and honored that publicly and accordingly.)

Quote from: Jason
I know you had a mutual independence pact with Vanheim (and I think Eiru if I recall correctly, the same pact), which was basically the same thing. Vanheim went AI (partly over the diplomacy thing), so they aren't an issue anymore, but Eriu definitely is.

I have a mutual defense pact with Eriu? This is news to me!

I don't know how I got that idea, but I did qualify with "if I recall correctly". (Also I didn't get the idea it was a mutual defense pact like with Ermor, but only a mutual respect of independence.) I can't find any evidence of it, having gone back through the public and private correspondence, so I'll correct my memory and proceed. Thank you for the clarification. :)

Quote from: Jason
If we decide not to break up and fight one another, are we going to team up to fight the eastern nations together, or just kind of sit around developing ourselves? And even if it's the latter, will the eastern nations bloc up, or do any of them feel strong enough to oppose us?

I'm constantly at war. I have been at peace maybe like 8-9 turns in this entire game. First Oceania, then Shinuyama. When you sub'ed in, I encouraged you to continue your war against T'ien Chi or to go to war against Machaka. If you want to sit around and develop your nation, that's up to you, but that is a pretty bland way to play dominions 3.

Well, then it's time to decide who you want to go to war with next, other than poor little now-defunct Shinuyama. Which is the point of publicly sorting out the alliances (and degrees of alliance) now.

War rages the continent.

Not on this side of the continent, unless "dogpiling an AI Machaka and being careful not to bump each other doing it" counts as war. I know Jotun has no intention of going after Ermor, TC or myself (though not of allying) for at least another month of real time, you aren't raging around anywhere on this side of the continent (nor elsewhere since finishing off one small nation mid-continent hardly counts), Ermor is cleaning up portions of Machaka like the rest of us and putting out indeterminate non-aggression feelers (and a defense alliance with you), TC and I are in an actual SVA. Who's left to be raging war over here?

War might start raging over here, but that's what we're working out.


Going back to the SVA Issue: No one has posted in support of SVA yet. Let's wait and hear back, but unless there are objections let's turn this to a standard 1 nation takes all victory on 7-14-12 12:00 GMT.

I have no objections, I'm good either way. (Well, relatively good, since I'm trying to find someone to pick up for me either way. ;) )
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 12, 2013, 01:09:17 PM
I've postponed the game turn until early Monday night Central US time for players out this weekend.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 12, 2013, 01:15:53 PM

 I can do admin work if needed, but only if Jason feels like giving control to someone else; is his game after all, and there are players who admin even if not participating in the action. In any case, I've done admin work in the past, so shouldn't be much of a trouble.

I don't mind continuing the admin, and in fact would not want a sub to also take over admin unless the players approved.

However, you seem like a good choice and if a significant number of players approve I'll pass the password along.  :D (Even if I can't get a sub and so continue until I win or am put out, just in case a sub shows up eventually. ;) )

Quote
Regarding the shared victory, I'm against it, my position is pretty much what Huw said. But I'm thinking the map will win the game, as its hugeness casts an automatic Rigor Mortis on all the human players, and lets them slowly die of exhaustion as they nations grow bigger and their management duties go through the roof :P.

There's a limit on this game in any case: the server will automatically declare one player the winner whenever that player holds 14 VPs.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 12, 2013, 02:29:57 PM
Jason man, I think you're probably in too many games because you apparently don't remember your messages :/:

Here's a copy of a message in my inbox folder I sent right after you sub'ed in to you, bringing you up to speed on the fact that ulm and I had a NAP-3 on May 7th, 2013:


Online elitesix
Equites
***
 
Posts: 136
View Profile  Personal Message (Online)
Details of the Atlantis-Ulm Treaty
« Sent to: JasonPratt on: May 07, 2013, 07:32:00 AM » ReplyQuoteDelete
It's probably closer to an alliance than a NAP. Messages are below, but the shorter version:
Treaty Parameters:
-NAP-3
-Ulm Sphere of Influence - Mainland Continent Coastal Area including the area directly north of Oceania's and Atlantis's capital on the mainland;
-Atlantis's Sphere of Influence -South-Southeast of Continent & all ocean provinces;
-Shared Spheres: Islands in the Ocean
-Border delinations: Province 27 and east to be Atlantis (though it's still indie at this point, it was negotiated to be reserved for Atlantis)
-Agreement for Atlantis to help in offensive wars along the sea (I've been providing intel mainly thus far, including a screenshot of the isles area that I'll forward to you)

Trade History:
-Gem Gift of 10 Water Gems at signing of the treaty
-Trade of 24 Water gems for 24 Nature gems

Discussions:
-future item trades
-we were basically on the path to formalizing the relationship as an alliance


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I said, the previous Ulm and I were very close to an alliance, but then you and I did not share such a close relationship, and we're no where close to an alliance at this point. :/

Anyway, it looks like we're on track to go to a 1 nation takes all victory...should be interesting!:) And I'm in support of Lunaje taking the reins!
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: elitesix on July 13, 2013, 06:41:49 PM
Looks like it may be sometime before anyone off of desura subs in - there is a previous sub request for another game posted before ours that still hasn't been filled.
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 14, 2013, 09:46:49 AM
I went through all my messages and didn't find that one, but I do recall it now that I see it.

Considering that you continued immediately along the "closer to alliance than NAP-3" behavior, I must have inferred we were closer to alliance than NAP-3, and so disregarded NAP-3 per se as a limit (i.e. starts with NAP-3 then builds from there, not stays at only NAP-3). That we haven't needed to cooperate on anything recently means we haven't needed to cooperate on anything recently; I certainly never took that to mean we were shifting closer to NAP-3 than alliance. (But then at the time I didn't realize you would only regard something as alliance if you publicly announced it; which is reasonable in itself but contributes to the confusion under the circumstances. Well, that's part of the nifty messiness of the system, just like real life. ;) )

Looks like it may be sometime before anyone off of desura subs in - there is a previous sub request for another game posted before ours that still hasn't been filled.

Thanks for trying anyway. I don't think anyone has bit at Wargamer either. (I haven't received any email alerts from posts there.)
Title: Re: Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]
Post by: JasonPratt on July 14, 2013, 12:21:10 PM
As if things weren't tense enough. ;)

KingofScots left on vacation last week and won't be back until the 21st, meaning he probably won't be able to play a turn until the 22nd (at the earliest).

He had thought he would be able to take Dom3 with him on his girlfriend's laptop, but then the day before he left the laptop fried. This put him in a rush to find someone to sub for him, and I was the obvious choice, since we're teaming anyway. I was under strict orders not to start fights with anyone, nor to act in a hostile way toward anyone--or anyone not AI anyway--but to do some infrastructure building along lines he requested and respond to invasions if any. I agreed not to do so as Ulm either, since that would result in both of us being at war.

I've been sending updates on the other issues, but I don't know that he has seen any of them yet. I was hoping he would be able to log into the forum somehow and check in, and so tell me how he wanted to proceed in regard to the proposed dissolution of SVAs, so I was waiting to play his turn as long as possible, rather than doing so sooner, since he left several days before that topic came up.

Unfortunately, Dom3 does not allow me to play two nations in the same game, at least not when one of those nations was created using a different CD key. I was not aware of this until a few minutes ago when I opened TC's turn and was told by the system that my orders for TC last turn were rejected on that ground.

Consequently, until KoS returns or until we find a temporary sub not in this game, I will have to delay the game until next Monday night.


Ubercat, I know you're looking to be out for a week or two at the end of the month; if you've already found a sub, be careful they aren't in Groghammer already! (Presumably someone already put out of GH will be fine, as I was able