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IRL (In Real Life) => Music, TV, Movies => Topic started by: JasonPratt on May 04, 2019, 04:51:47 PM

Title: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: JasonPratt on May 04, 2019, 04:51:47 PM
I don't watch the show myself, but I felt bad for fans when the disappointing climactic battle (apparently) against the Night King finally arrived for episode 3 of season 8.

(Obviously spoilers abound in any discussion of this, so be warned be very awarned.)

You can easily find complaint videos swarming the net, many from game players with some level of medieval tactical skill.

Here are a few of the best I've run across so far, from Shadiversity and Invictus.


This is more in-depth about things done wrongly.



This more in-depth about things they could have done a lot better.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: Gusington on May 04, 2019, 05:02:15 PM
I found the battle to be slightly disappointing only because, to me, it was not as engaging/exciting as the Battle of the Bastards, etc. Still, it was great.

Yes the cinematography was dark but please...if everyone complaining about it would make their own epic fantasy movies or shows, the world would be a better place.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: acctingman on May 06, 2019, 08:15:15 AM
People like to just bitch
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2019, 06:26:53 AM
...the lack of grogginess in the subsequent posts so far is discouraging.  ::)

Not one of those videos complained about the dark cinematography, btw. I don't know if they lightened the footage for editing, but everything looked fine to me.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 07, 2019, 01:35:35 PM
It wasn't too dark in my opinion, I don't know what everyone was complaining about there.  However, the battle itself was farcical at best.  I don't have time to list all my complaints now, and they've been well documented elsewhere anyway.  But S08E03 was the final nail in the coffin (and E04 was even worse) for me.  I'll finish the series simply because there are only two episodes left so I might as well, but damn, did they ruin what they were gifted.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2019, 02:32:02 PM
I think I've remarked elsewhere that the writers had to naturally get approval from GRRM about how to play out the end of the series, but by the same token they must have been contractually obligated to avoid doing whatever he might have planned which might make a lot more sense. Similarly had they come up with something more reasonable but different from his own planned conclusion, he could have vetoed it out of competition.

In any case, that is not a condition conducive for writing a great conclusion. I've seen it succeed some times, e.g. the first Full Metal Alchemist anime, and the Trigun anime, although in both those cases the manga author was heavily involved in creating an alternate ending storyline that he himself could respect and enjoy.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: SirAndrewD on May 07, 2019, 03:02:22 PM
Yeah, I've been grousing about this since I watched it. 

They managed to double down by having bad strategy in the next episode.  Division of forces, use of sea lanes that you know the enemy has superiority in, lack of scouting ect. 

The writers are going for story beats on drama rather than sense.  I doubt they're following Martin's ideas too closely.  They themselves said they made the choice with Arya and the Night King when they diverged three years ago and were not beholden to the books on that.  D&D said that at the core they made the decision because it was "unexpected and dramatic" not and specifically because it hadn't been seeded in the story. 

In many ways they've gutted the entire point of the story that was set up in the first scene.  The overlying theme was that the petty squabbles, nobles grasping for power, selfish interests were a side show to the threat from the north.  That everyone needed to put aside their differences and unite for a common goal of survival and that to do otherwise was pure folly. 

The entire point of the phrase "Winter is coming" was to say "Always be prepared, we'll need to work together to survive."

The show abandoned that by having the work of mankind and their unity mean almost nothing, and have the "Great War" resolved in one night.  In the end Cersei was the smartest person in the show, she was right.  Sending her soldiers to help would've been useless.  The only play was to cast the dice and hope the north won and left themselves weakened. 

I think it's telling that GRRM's books are "A Song of Ice and Fire" and this show is "Game of Thrones".   In the end the Game of Thrones is all the show is really concerned with, and it's poorer for it.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: MetalDog on May 07, 2019, 08:13:01 PM
I am holding out hope that this is just a feint before the final twist.  Something like, Dany goes Targaryen mad and Bran turns Jon into a new Night King in order to save humanity.  His ice to her fire.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: smittyohio on May 07, 2019, 08:24:49 PM
I just can't get past the rapid fire, auto-loading, gravity defying, bunker busting, homing scorpions...
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2019, 08:42:15 PM
It's a lot easier to get past the many spiders the size of dogs in that battle!

......oh, wait.  :P
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2019, 08:45:15 PM
I am holding out hope that this is just a feint before the final twist.  Something like, Dany goes Targaryen mad and Bran turns Jon into a new Night King in order to save humanity.  His ice to her fire.

The best fan theory I've seen -- not that it will make up for the goofy and self-destructive strategies and tactics going into the end stretch -- is that the Lord of Light is the real final villain and Jon will need to be changed into a Night King to oppose him, since the Night King et al were a broken defensive system against other forces and maybe Jon can do it right.

Your version sounds more plausible to the clear gist of the final half of the season however.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: MetalDog on May 07, 2019, 08:58:31 PM
They can still bring that angle by making Dany Azhor Ahai.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: SirAndrewD on May 07, 2019, 09:00:23 PM
They can still bring that angle by making Dany Azhor Ahai.

Looks more like they're going with her being the Mad Queen. 

Ah, I see the rest of your theory.  Missed it. 

I don't think they're going to be that nuanced.  I think Jon's just going to flat kill her.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: W8taminute on May 08, 2019, 09:44:52 AM
I think it's a pity how they're wrapping up the series.  To my uneducated eyes (I have not read the novels) it seems that the producers are going too fast to bring the show to a conclusion without developing the story the way it was when the series was still based on what was written in the books. 

And now for my wildly emotional outburst on what I want to happen...

Dany and Varys (sp? i.e. the bald headed unic advisor) both need to die and die horribly.  Especially Varys.  He's clearly a threat to humanity, very arrogant (just like little finger was), and he knows too much.  Stalin was right.  Purge the intelligentsia in order to preserve the power. 

Dany needs to die because she's becoming a little spoiled brat.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: Huw the Poo on May 08, 2019, 10:30:03 AM
?

But Varys is plotting to kill Dany himself!

Varys has always maintained that he serves the realm, and no monarch in particular.  I think his actions have proved that to be true.  I have no problem with him at all.
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: W8taminute on May 08, 2019, 11:07:26 AM
You're right he's always stated he serves the realm.  In the grand scheme of things he's good for the world if he's truly honest. 

However...

I must admit I think I'm feeling the way I do because I'm looking at it from the point of view of the powers that be and the threat his type poses.  Guess I'm being swayed by the dark side lol!
Title: Re: Long Night tactics from GoT S8:E3
Post by: SirAndrewD on May 08, 2019, 12:54:01 PM
You're right he's always stated he serves the realm.  In the grand scheme of things he's good for the world if he's truly honest. 

However...

I must admit I think I'm feeling the way I do because I'm looking at it from the point of view of the powers that be and the threat his type poses.  Guess I'm being swayed by the dark side lol!

Yeah, he's actually one of the few genuinely good guys in the show.  He's vicious about it, but his intention always has been to protect the common people from the petty desires, squabbles and destructive wars the nobles are prone to engage in. 

The whole idea of Westeros is that it's a pretty harsh place, it has brutal winters, and it was born of a pretty violent conquest that even generations later hasn't fully healed in the minds of its nobility.  What gets lost in that are the millions of people that starve in the winter, die in the wars, get chewed up and spit out.  Varys supported Dany because she initially seemed like she was devoted to "Breaking the wheel" and actually putting the people first.  Now that she's shown that she's tending to be just like all the other tyrants that he's served before. 

Varys has zero loyalty to the nobility.  His loyalty is always to the people under them.  He told Ned just that back in season 1. 

I honestly wouldn't mind if in the end they kill pretty much everyone.  Jon either dies or refuses the throne and the show ends with them melting the Iron Throne down and Varys and Tyrion say "Long live the Republic."