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Digital Gaming => Computer Wargaming => Topic started by: JasonPratt on August 04, 2018, 01:19:17 PM

Title: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on August 04, 2018, 01:19:17 PM
Was this coming? I guess it was! -- I hadn't heard of it.

(NO, I SWEAR I HADN'T HEARD OF IT! (despite working to set up a forum game of The Republic of Rome, sometime soon...))

https://store.steampowered.com/app/850010/Total_War_ROME_II__Rise_of_the_Republic_Campaign_Pack/

Coming August 9th, pre-ordered today. One of Grogheads' favorite video sites, Invictus, released a short history of the early/pre-Republic Rome's expansion to celebrate the release:



Here's the (in-game engine apparently) trailer from CA itself:



And the 9 factions of the vanilla release:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 04, 2018, 04:22:07 PM
I have zero interest in this time period however - I never really liked Greek history either, or Egyptian, and games got me in to those eras so - I will probably get this at someone distant point in the future.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: IICptMillerII on August 04, 2018, 04:30:39 PM
I just can't get into Rome 2, or any of the new Total War games. Every now and then I go back to try them out after updates and new mods, but I always end up uninstalling them. I will say that it is nice to see the games being continually supported and expanded on.

Jason, what is this forum game you've been mentioning? Is there a dedicated thread for it? If so I seem to have missed it. From the small amount of the concept I've seen, it looks pretty interesting! If I'm understanding it correctly, it looks like you're essentially creating an operational layer for the early Roman era. If so, you might want to consider Field of Glory 2 as your tactical battle game. If you're unfamiliar with the game, it has a complete editor, unit list and PBEM, and is highly moddable. I think it could fit your needs pretty well.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on August 04, 2018, 07:24:57 PM
Cpt, no thread yet. Coming in a few weeks. (Waiting for one of the Grogs who originally expressed an interest months ago to get back from vacation.) I'll mention it occasionally to remind people it's coming. I didn't actually intend to do more than my Friday mention this week, but then I discovered RiseRom was coming out and kind of fangasm'd at the synchronicity.


Quote
If I'm understanding it correctly, it looks like you're essentially creating an operational layer for the early Roman era

No, I'm only adapting the infamously difficult political board game The Republic of Rome (plus a couple of fan expansions) to a workable forum-game format, I hope. It has battle mechanics but those aren't really the main thing so they happen (with a few rare exceptions) almost entirely automatically without player input. What counts more is whether the players can cooperate together enough to fend off bad luck and various historical events, mostly wars, by making properly reasonable preparations to win. A tactical battle system wouldn't work with it, though the FoG(II) system is very nice!  O:-)

To paraphrase an old fencing joke about 'dry' sabre matches, it's a political role-playing debate that occasionally erupts into violence. Including the occasional assassination attempt.

To anticipate a summary coming later: players (up to 8 in my haxored house rule version) manage unofficial political parties called Factions, each of which has special gamebreaking emphases  >:D , trying to attract senatorial families (with the occasional unique historical characters) into joining their group (sometimes from other groups!) where the players can then level up the senators in various ways. Until the senators inevitably die off, from one or another cause.  ^-^ (But usually from old age / random normal problems.)

Those 30ish senatorial families and their recurring scions effectively tip the balance of control of the hundreds of invisible senators in the game, so that the Player/Factions can get things done.

The game is designed to be trying to make ALL PLAYERS LOSE TOGETHER, so everyone has a strong motivation to beat the game by cooperating together. But the game rules also allow, and increasingly tempt, each player individually to try to win the game alone by becoming Emperor (legally or illegally). It's even possible (for about half the game) for a senator to become Consul for Life accidentally, which other players will be naturally trying to stop. Or take advantage of by seducing that senator away for their own faction first!

The nominal and hardest goal, though, is for all players to win together by keeping the Republic alive at least a little longer than historically. Relatedly, it's practically impossible for any player to lose by yourself: senators come and go, but the political Factions (thus the Players) continue on. Even if you have a party-wipe and lose all your senators, even from them being all executed after a failed coup against the Senate, the Faction continues on, and the game will (probably) spawn you off a new scion from one of the families eventually who will be perfectly happy to take the opportunity to be your new faction leader.

So over the first several turns (which act as a sort of tutorial) the players expand Rome through the Latin and then the Italian consolidation era, unlocking game factors along the way, until the Republic is large and strong enough to start picking up provinces outside the peninsula (which is when the main game starts).
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 04, 2018, 07:51:09 PM
Love the idea. Will probably hate the execution. I too am not a fan of the total war games since Shogun2. The engine for me and my old machine just makes things clunky and the soldier sprites shockingly dark and stick figure like. Unless of course I am at ground level right next to them. They also seem to be going for a less real and more abstract feel for the campaign maps. The campaigns are designed to give you a constant challenge which really does not reward you for making the right decisions.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on August 04, 2018, 08:15:22 PM
I have zero interest in this time period...

Well then, let me take a stab at selling the time period! Because what's important, for me, isn't the specific details of the period so much, as the EPIC METAL CONTEXT!  \m/

The Roman Empire has affected Europe (and the Mediterranean and Near Middle East) more thoroughly, even into the modern day, than arguably anything else in history, with the exception of Islam (at least in the Middle East) and, arguably, Christianity. And even Muslim Caliphates were explicitly trying to take over ruling Rome when Constantinople first fell! The Russian Empire? 3rd Rome. Holy Roman Empire? Duh. Napoleon? Also duh. The French Republic? Sort-of-kind-of. Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany? Very much so. (Even the Soviets in their own way as inheritors of 3rd Rome.) The United States has a strong claim, from the foundation onward (in somewhat different but overlapping ways) to be the most wildly successful spiritual heir of Rome -- perhaps uniquely the heir of the spirit of the Roman Republic. But Great Britain had a big claim to that once upon a time, too (and still has a big claim to it), going back at least as far as Arthur the semi-historical Briton holding the line of Roman culture against the Angles and Saxons.

Obviously I have no need to explain any of that here -- that's just context for my real point which is:

Archaic Rome? -- the time of the two cities on the hill and the original kings? And then the rebellion of the Republic to institute the idea of a nation of power being used for all citizens not only for the benefit of a particular few (even if imperfectly realized, and eventually subverted back into despotism)?

This is the origin story. For better and for worse: the synthesis of the homely values and the Hellenic city-states, with eventually the Judeo-Christian ethical philosophy, and (after Rome technically fell, or arguably a hundred years before then) the Germanic/English work ethic. That synthesis starts back here.

This is those first few dozen turns in the game, when you're struggling to just survive and explore and level up and get some more abilities. And Rome is by no means even in the top ten powers of the Italian area. Arguably it isn't in the top 5 of merely the Latin-language valley! It's the little doofy two-city nation you pick in the epic 4x game as a challenge, to see if you can do anything worthwhile with it.

I (usually) love those first "turns" in an epic game. And this epic history is the inheritance of more than half the planet (at least in area), including all of Western culture.

That's what this DLC, and games like it, are about, for me.  :smitten: Did I set my mouse on fire pre-ordering this thing when I finally heard about it?! INSERT THE CLIMACTIC QUOTE FROM A FEW GOOD MEN HERE! (...uh, the other more dramatically important quote soon afterward, not the most famous one: I'm a romantic, in several senses, but a critical one. I can handle the truth. ;) )

...man, I need to go find some Chesterton to quote...
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on August 04, 2018, 08:21:09 PM
Having said that, I'm probably going to play one of the little island factions nearby first. Because they aren't Rome but could be.  :D
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Vintage Dude on August 04, 2018, 08:47:10 PM
Jason,
I agree with you 100% concerning the time period. I immediately preordered the DLC and I can't wait for it"s release this Thursday. I haven't decided who I will play first.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 04, 2018, 09:32:00 PM
I have zero interest in this time period...

Well then, let me take a stab at selling the time period! Because what's important, for me, isn't the specific details of the period so much, as the EPIC METAL CONTEXT!  \m/

The Roman Empire has affected Europe (and the Mediterranean and Near Middle East) more thoroughly, even into the modern day, than arguably anything else in history, with the exception of Islam (at least in the Middle East) and, arguably, Christianity. And even Muslim Caliphates were explicitly trying to take over ruling Rome when Constantinople first fell! The Russian Empire? 3rd Rome. Holy Roman Empire? Duh. Napoleon? Also duh. The French Republic? Sort-of-kind-of. Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany? Very much so. (Even the Soviets in their own way as inheritors of 3rd Rome.) The United States has a strong claim, from the foundation onward (in somewhat different but overlapping ways) to be the most wildly successful spiritual heir of Rome -- perhaps uniquely the heir of the spirit of the Roman Republic. But Great Britain had a big claim to that once upon a time, too (and still has a big claim to it), going back at least as far as Arthur the semi-historical Briton holding the line of Roman culture against the Angles and Saxons.

Obviously I have no need to explain any of that here -- that's just context for my real point which is:

Archaic Rome? -- the time of the two cities on the hill and the original kings? And then the rebellion of the Republic to institute the idea of a nation of power being used for all citizens not only for the benefit of a particular few (even if imperfectly realized, and eventually subverted back into despotism)?

This is the origin story. For better and for worse: the synthesis of the homely values and the Hellenic city-states, with eventually the Judeo-Christian ethical philosophy, and (after Rome technically fell, or arguably a hundred years before then) the Germanic/English work ethic. That synthesis starts back here.

This is those first few dozen turns in the game, when you're struggling to just survive and explore and level up and get some more abilities. And Rome is by no means even in the top ten powers of the Italian area. Arguably it isn't in the top 5 of merely the Latin-language valley! It's the little doofy two-city nation you pick in the epic 4x game as a challenge, to see if you can do anything worthwhile with it.

I (usually) love those first "turns" in an epic game. And this epic history is the inheritance of more than half the planet (at least in area), including all of Western culture.

That's what this DLC, and games like it, are about, for me.  :smitten: Did I set my mouse on fire pre-ordering this thing when I finally heard about it?! INSERT THE CLIMACTIC QUOTE FROM A FEW GOOD MEN HERE! (...uh, the other more dramatically important quote soon afterward, not the most famous one: I'm a romantic, in several senses, but a critical one. I can handle the truth. ;) )

...man, I need to go find some Chesterton to quote...

In society now I think we are at the late imperial era where the phase of democratic representation has turned to imperialism. Perhaps being on the verge of either collapsing or revitalising itself again? The barbarian migrations are certainly happening again :P It's nice to play a game where everybody has hope starting from the beginning before wealth gets too institutionalised and gap driven again.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: IICptMillerII on August 04, 2018, 09:56:54 PM
Jason, thanks for the quick summary of your upcoming forum game. Sounds very interesting. Iíll have fun reading along to the action!

I know you didnít mean this towards me, but I wanted to say that my unenthusiastic is for the Total War games, not the time period they represent. For all the reasons you listed and more, I am fascinated by Roman history. Iím just a bit more picky about the games that represent it. For the record, I played a ton of Rome Total War, and still go back to it occasionally for nostalgia. That, and the game holds up relatively well all things considered.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on August 05, 2018, 12:00:47 AM
Des, there's an interesting and rather deep debate on that, and I land on the side that we're not at imperialism yet (much less late imperialism). But it's a constant threat and we've edged up to (and arguably over) that line more than once as a nation. (The Manifest Destiny period being an obvious candidate, not only at home but abroad. Which then in some cases became home.) Key positions having necessary term limits has been an important stop-gap. I'd feel safer if Congress did, too, but good luck ever getting them to vote that in.  ::) (I understand the point to not having term limits on the Supreme Court, tho, as annoying as that has sometimes been.)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 05, 2018, 03:22:37 AM
Not surprised. The comparison is rather obvious. I hope you are right and we can head off the imperialist march. Imperialism is a logical conclusion after democracy takes you so far and you realise that things can get too big for it. The trick is to modify democracy so that middle government somehow becomes the inter rum democracy or splitting up and becoming some sort of federation when things get too big. Humans don't seem to be able to manage much once things get too big. We lose focus. Those at the top forget about the bottom and never meet them and vice versa.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: besilarius on August 05, 2018, 06:45:36 AM
Jason, I applaud your efforts in regards to Republic of Rome.  Never could get more than three folks to play at a time.  An eight player game sounds so crazy fun.
The mechanics have all gone down the bog.  Can your faction arrange something like the attack on Tiberius Gracchus which killed him and 300 of his Faction mates?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Tripoli on August 05, 2018, 08:01:17 AM
Jason-If you are trolling for players for a Republic of Rome game, I would be up for it.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on August 05, 2018, 01:29:34 PM
Tripoli, yep! -- but not officially for a few more weeks. Just reminding that it's coming. I think the last thing to do is make a video demonstrating an early turn sample with three players.

Jason, I applaud your efforts in regards to Republic of Rome.  Never could get more than three folks to play at a time.  An eight player game sounds so crazy fun.
The mechanics have all gone down the bog.  Can your faction arrange something like the attack on Tiberius Gracchus which killed him and 300 of his Faction mates?

I know there's at least one event, the 2nd Catalinarian Conspiracy, which allows (in fact it insists) the current highest ranking available officer to do something like that. (It explicitly prevents you from targeting your own faction in order to minimize the damage to your relations with other players.) I'm trying to think if there's a normal mechanic for something like that. Assassinations of course are allowed at any time during the Senate phase, but you aren't allowed to go after more than one senator per attempt (and if your assassination agent is caught then your faction leader must be put on emergency trial). The conspiracy event allows you to potentially wipe 6 senators from your target, although the chances for that much of a party-wipe are very low.

But of course each senatorial family represents influence over invisible votes, so assassinating a senator can be construed as neutralizing his support, too, one way or another.

The penalties for a caught assassination (successful against the target or not) are quite stiff, to discourage players from using it all the time. And a card to randomly end the game within the final six Scenarios, before the Senate phase, now reduces the chances of players launching a catastrophic chain of assassin plots against each other at the endgame. That's still possible, though. (A player doesn't have to use an Assassin card to try an assassination attempt, it just helps the attempt succeed.)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 05, 2018, 03:58:32 PM
You should be a teacher, Pratt.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on August 05, 2018, 06:06:15 PM
Thanks! -- I've had people say that before, too.  O:-)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 05, 2018, 08:04:47 PM
I believe it.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on August 06, 2018, 10:11:44 AM
For more news actually relevant to the thread title... (I have only myself to blame for that ofc):



I should clarify that despite my sales pitch, the campaign doesn't start with a couple of small towns (and, say, Romulus and Remus as co-rulers). It starts with the Republic already pretty well 'started', with the local Latin expansion more-or-less done, but the Italian expansion still to do. The first sacking of Rome by northern barbarians has just occurred, so Sulla? (if I recall correctly) is being called back to Rome as Dictator of the Republic to try to salvage the disaster and recover. Or that's the main campaign story anyway. The video above illustrates the Samnite campaign instead.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Tripoli on August 07, 2018, 08:32:05 AM
Quote
I know there's at least one event, the 2nd Catalinarian Conspiracy,

Jason-Since you brought up the 2nd Catalinarian Conspiracy...Have you ever red "A Pillar of Iron" by Taylor Caldwell?  It is a pretty good historical novel about Cicero and Republican Rome.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Rayfer on August 07, 2018, 09:27:33 AM
For more news actually relevant to the thread title... (I have only myself to blame for that ofc):



I should clarify that despite my sales pitch, the campaign doesn't start with a couple of small towns (and, say, Romulus and Remus as co-rulers). It starts with the Republic already pretty well 'started', with the local Latin expansion more-or-less done, but the Italian expansion still to do. The first sacking of Rome by northern barbarians has just occurred, so Sulla? (if I recall correctly) is being called back to Rome as Dictator of the Republic to try to salvage the disaster and recover. Or that's the main campaign story anyway. The video above illustrates the Samnite campaign instead.

JP...is this your video, is that you doing the narration? 
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on August 07, 2018, 11:28:42 AM
No, that's Invicta (if I recall correctly -- I've slept since posting it. ;) ) Aside from forty metric tons of Total War gameplay vids, he also has produced some nice documentaries on Roman history using the TWR2 engine; and has recently gotten back into producing some simpler docs (one of which I linked to upthread, about archaic and early Republic Rome spreading through the boot.)

I think a number of Grogs like his videos, although he stopped doing docs for a while when TW:Warhammer (and Warham2) came out.

I sound very different, both off the cuff and in my scripted vids. Here's my most recent AAR report on the Crisis Grogs Fire in the Lake duel, for comparison. (It won't take long to hear the difference.)

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 12, 2018, 12:42:25 PM
I believe it.

  Some Mercenary Hoplites working for the Tarantines:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 12, 2018, 01:25:26 PM
I believe it.

  Some Mercenary Hoplites working for the Tarantines:

  Or join the Tarantine Militia and get a weird helmet!

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 12, 2018, 01:57:45 PM
Dammit. I thought this DLC began in something like 700BC. Now I know it starts in 399BC, a more familiar era to me. Now...I kinda want it.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 12, 2018, 03:12:35 PM
Dammit. I thought this DLC began in something like 700BC. Now I know it starts in 399BC, a more familiar era to me. Now...I kinda want it.

  Yep, ab urbs condita starts in 753 BC or something, but the Republic is much later.  The game covers a period more like the Tyrant Module of the Great battles of Alexander the Great game (two greats and a Tyrant).

  It's actually a pretty neat game.  Very interesting map.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 12, 2018, 03:23:29 PM
 >:(

Next you'll tell me how interesting the other non-Roman factions are.

 >:(
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Tuna on August 12, 2018, 04:48:34 PM
New patch seems very buggy defending a settlement Ballistas refused to fire.. One lady I kept trying to adopt would crash to desktop every time.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 12, 2018, 04:59:37 PM
>:(

Next you'll tell me how interesting the other non-Roman factions are.

 >:(

   Don't know.  The Tarantines so far seem like a promising little civilization.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 12, 2018, 05:00:51 PM
New patch seems very buggy defending a settlement Ballistas refused to fire.. One lady I kept trying to adopt would crash to desktop every time.

  Are you in the
rise of the Republic DLC or seeing its effects on the other parts of the game?

No crashes so far in the new DLC.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Tuna on August 12, 2018, 05:13:58 PM
No, playing vanilla.. never had these problems before..
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 13, 2018, 09:39:46 PM
I believe it.

  Some Mercenary Hoplites working for the Tarantines:

  Or join the Tarantine Militia and get a weird helmet!

  Things seem to be going well in this part of the Ancient World:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 14, 2018, 05:30:07 AM
Beautiful shot - looks like a painting.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 14, 2018, 04:21:23 PM
Beautiful shot - looks like a painting.

  By selecting and cropping, i try to make the shots worthwhile.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: solops on August 14, 2018, 04:43:51 PM
New patch seems very buggy defending a settlement Ballistas refused to fire.. One lady I kept trying to adopt would crash to desktop every time.
Oh, come on! You involved a female in family plans, got an unexpected result and you are SURPRISED!!??!?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 14, 2018, 04:48:57 PM
MengJiao you are our digital Picasso.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 14, 2018, 08:40:57 PM
And smarter too. Instead of cutting off an ear to impress his Lady, he just cropped it.  :bd:
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 14, 2018, 08:51:28 PM
^And that.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 15, 2018, 09:57:42 AM
MengJiao you are our digital Picasso.

   The introspective looks of barbarian cavalry that is about to flee:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 15, 2018, 12:02:02 PM
Makes me teary eyed.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 15, 2018, 12:09:26 PM
Those don't look like the kind of guys who "flee". Perhaps they are preparing to advance in a different direction?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 15, 2018, 12:48:21 PM
...rear?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 15, 2018, 12:52:52 PM
Those don't look like the kind of guys who "flee". Perhaps they are preparing to advance in a different direction?

They do look unhappy about the whole turn of events, and I think they were the cheif's warband, but what with Etruscan Axe Infantry and Gallic Horse and what not, they finally ran away (last of the whole army, but they did finally flee).  You can see the guy with the triangular helmet and crescent things giving them some strong advice.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 15, 2018, 10:28:27 PM
Those don't look like the kind of guys who "flee". Perhaps they are preparing to advance in a different direction?

They do look unhappy about the whole turn of events, and I think they were the cheif's warband, but what with Etruscan Axe Infantry and Gallic Horse and what not, they finally ran away (last of the whole army, but they did finally flee).  You can see the guy with the triangular helmet and crescent things giving them some strong advice.

  The little frustrations of Ancient Warfare:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 15, 2018, 11:36:40 PM
What formation is that they are in?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 16, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Well who could blame them for running from Etruscan Axes? I'd be like, "Screw you Chieftan. Call me when Epirus gets here".
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 16, 2018, 09:38:22 AM
What formation is that they are in?

   The Mercenary heavy Etruscan Hoplites are still in line, but it is crumbling.  The Young Swords are just part of a larger force helping their Cheiftaness (of the Sun Priestesses of the Insubres of the Southern Isles with the Elder Swords as her Personalized warband) rout the misguided Mercenary heavy Etruscan Hoplites.  It was a brutal fight, but this chick from the competing clan has become the second-deadliest commander of the Etrusco-Gaulic tribe from up by Lake Como.  You can see the whole thing is really trying for the guy with the vase on his shield.  I'm sure he switched sides after the battle and is working for the Gauls now.
    Other notes -- vase on sheild -- from a tomb image I assume -- probably a joke or pun in Etruscan.
    Antenna Sword -- a Hallstat antique at least a century old.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 16, 2018, 09:42:08 AM
Does this campaign have an end date?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 16, 2018, 09:43:45 AM
Well who could blame them for running from Etruscan Axes? I'd be like, "Screw you Chieftan. Call me when Epirus gets here".

  Yep...a good plan, but he won't be around for another century.  Meanwhile everybody is stuck in the middle of the Mediterranean with Tyrants and Carthegenians down south, Gauls, Etruscans, Romans, Greeks, Philosophers and hill tribes and horse tribes elsewhere.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 16, 2018, 10:21:53 AM
What a mess. Who are you playing as? Maybe I missed it.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 16, 2018, 10:25:19 AM
What a mess. Who are you playing as? Maybe I missed it.

   Lately the Insubres from near Lake Como.  They are rated as Easy and i'm playing on Easy for an Easy Easy Experience.  Earlier I was wiped out as the Tarquinian style Etruscans and earlier than that I was destroyed as the Tarantines.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 16, 2018, 05:47:56 PM
Does this campaign have an end date?

   The situation that the game is sort of about is over by the end of the 3rd Samnite war (290 BC) when Rome comes to dominate central Italy so 400 turns or so would be about the limit that the structure of the game would make any sense.  After that, Rome and Magna Grecia are in a larger context, though Eturia and the Gallic tribes are still not under anyone's complete control.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 16, 2018, 07:02:47 PM
^Got it, thanks.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 16, 2018, 10:49:36 PM
^Got it, thanks.

  More serious Etruscan Mercenary Hoplites:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 17, 2018, 02:15:20 AM
Tell me since the patch for this latest addon has the game been upgraded to Attila level of graphical and feature, bug fixes formations etc ?? I am wondering whether I should give rome2 a go again?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 17, 2018, 07:07:54 AM
Tell me since the patch for this latest addon has the game been upgraded to Attila level of graphical and feature, bug fixes formations etc ?? I am wondering whether I should give rome2 a go again?

   There has been some patching.  I'm not sure of its impacts.  I have not paid much attention to what is supposedly wrong with Rome2 since the Huppla over nothing that reached cosmic proportions when the game first came out.  It seems like whatever the actual problems are with games like Rome2 and Post Scriptum, the deranged verbiage of the internet huppla industry bears no relation to what somebody experiences in actually playing
the game.  It's like people are so busy having finally found some cheap way to appear human (including robots and foreign agents and the fake news generators) that they have forgotten how to have fun playing games if they ever knew.  Sure games aren't perfect (and what would that be anyway?  Some AAAA game that figures out what your subconscious drives are each day?), but after all they are just games and you are supposed to play them not expect them to tend to your highly specific need to drive a Tiger tank all the time (for example).
That being said I have to admit there are no Tiger tanks in Rome2 even in the Rise of the Republic.  On the other hand, some aspects of the political patch seem to be working -- at least in this DLC -- it might be crashing Vanilla for all I know.  Epi the ex-Priestess of the Sun Clan formed her own clan and after a preemptive purge and peripheralization of the Sun Clan I think the Insubres are on an Easy Easy roll. 
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 17, 2018, 07:51:50 AM
^ post of the week right there
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 17, 2018, 07:55:31 AM
^ post of the week right there

I thought the post where I called you the Queen of Soul would win.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 17, 2018, 07:56:34 AM
I havenít seen that one yet. Perhaps that one will be third to the above and the hernia advice in the Friday thread.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 17, 2018, 04:53:10 PM
^ post of the week right there

  Thanks!

  Meanwhile, Elder Swords outflank Etruscan Heavy Hoplites:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 17, 2018, 04:56:03 PM
How do you have the hand eye coordination to get these shots?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 17, 2018, 05:41:37 PM
How do you have the hand eye coordination to get these shots?

  I've learned where in a battle you can find some drama.  So I go in low with the camera on the drama and just shoot the images as I pass through.  90% of the shots have some obvious problems and the remaining 10% need some cropping.  I don't try to get individual shots in the middle of the battle -- just a tight series through the drama.

  This one was easy in a lot of ways.  It was a large battle (the ex-priestess of the Sun Clan was killed as were all three other commanders) and the climax was in the middle of the hill in the middle.  The Heavy Etruscan Hoplites held out against attacks for quite a while and I was able to get this toward the end of the battle.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 17, 2018, 05:42:17 PM
There's gotta be a way you can make a living from this skill of yours.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 17, 2018, 06:32:20 PM
MengJaoi.. I like what I like. I always liked the Wargame aspect of the total war games. I noticed in the later ones (rome2) that the focus moved away from that battlefield realism moved ahead to removing the beginnings of that directions features. You will remember they had to put guard mode back in and that legionaries decided they would never stay in formation. That battles at least for me looked like big black swirling blobs you would expect to see in pictures of the galaxy taken by some Hubble telescope. People had bugs where the legionary faces instead of moving were stuck in some demonic open mouthed pose. Combat in Rome2 seemed a little overwhelming as well. The camera angles and the scale of the battlefield not allowing me to track everything properly. The original also had such poor optimisation that the devs removed forcibly the graphics levels and lowered them. Eventually improving them again but in the mean time we at release got a carrot and a stunning looking game that performed horribly and had it turned into a stick figure looking ant fest.

They eventually put some of the tactical things back in as well. But it was only really Attila that seemed to run significantly better. I had hoped that this new addon would mean a full return to the rome2 battlefields graphical standard on release

Do you have a good shot of the entire armies fighting? Also once you get to the republican era in this addon do you get the hastati, principe and triarii (as well as the velites of course) or is the campaign set so early that the romans only get their poor version of hoplites? I wonder if Etruscan Hoplites fight differently to Greek Hoplites in both formation and fighting style??

P.s. You know I suggested to the wargame red dragon devs (Eugen systems) a while back that their engine would be perfect for ancient but more specifically napoleonic battlefields. Can you imagine total war battles on a field so big as this and so easy to control because you can see properly!!!! There would not just be a flag amongst a mob. But two distinct formations perhaps even with an outline to show you who was who... I think they might even do that in total war arena.

Image below is only of PART of one battlefield in steel division. Approx half of it actually. Imagine marching units of soldiers through those fields. It would be a little like playing ultimate general but with wonderful 3D graphics.
(https://www.hrkgame.com/media/screens/572410/.thumbnails/ss_b32dc875fbd877830f6f17239a6d96f8c0891142.600x338_TuF357N.jpg/ss_b32dc875fbd877830f6f17239a6d96f8c0891142.600x338_TuF357N-800x500.jpg)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on August 17, 2018, 08:25:57 PM
Yeah, but.... you can only see the units really when zoomed way in, in this engine. Exactly because they're to scale.

Even with the large numbers of men for Nappy battles, you'd be looking at zoomed out Total Wary blobs. Just more of them on the larger maps.

I'm not saying I'm against that (or a Civil War mod for that matter).  O:-) Just, it'll be an antfest, too.


Also, strictly speaking the campaign starts early in the Republican Era, after the downfall of Tarquinius already, and specifically after the first sack of Rome by northern barbarians. (The Sabines technically sacked Rome, or almost, back in the legendary days of Romulus.) I haven't played to know if the proper 4-class maniples are available yet. I don't think it gets quite up to the 1st Punic War...?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 17, 2018, 08:58:27 PM
I don't mind an antfest... as long as I can see clear formations... sure some formations will break down at certain points of battle. But rome2 had no formations near release... the blobs were not square. They were hollywood scrums. Retreating from them would theoretically be impossible.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Toonces on August 18, 2018, 09:15:16 PM
I believe I'm going to get this very, very soon.  I'm reading Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire and I'm in the mood for some Rome mayhem.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 18, 2018, 09:45:05 PM
Ok. Having a look around and it does not look like the republican hastati, triarii, princepes, velites republic units are available. I may as well start a normal grand campaign. I really am not keen to play roman hoplites as I really doubt any effort to reflect their fighting style has been put in apart from roman hoplite = X combat power. I guess I am searching for a new gaming experience. Beyond what rome1 offered. Going to sally forth on a new Roman campaign me thinks.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 18, 2018, 10:13:57 PM
Just tried my rome2. This is what my a little bit of zoom does. It hurts my eyes to try to figure out what is going on at this distance. Like watching ghosts fight or little impressionist paintings. Needless to say I don't get any joy out of watching battles like this and thus don't ever load it. Does anybody else have screenshots at the same distance. This was the historical battle of raphia?

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1841/44123973051_1d897e8978_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1869/29186477747_c253088aba_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1891/29186474657_0680de0e0e_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Stryker07 on August 19, 2018, 02:48:03 PM
In the new DLC you do get Hastati and whatnot, but you have to research a high level tech to get them. Quite honestly, the Roman infantry isn't great in the early game, but once a couple dozen turns have passed you can put together a decent force including native troops. I just encountered Pricipes and Hastati in my Sabine campaign and I'm at about turn 130 so quite a ways in.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 19, 2018, 07:38:41 PM
MengJaoi.. I like what I like. I always liked the Wargame aspect of the total war games. I noticed in the later ones (rome2) that the focus moved away from that battlefield realism moved ahead to removing the beginnings of that directions features. You will remember they had to put guard mode back in and that legionaries decided they would never stay in formation. That battles at least for me looked like big black swirling blobs you would expect to see in pictures of the galaxy taken by some Hubble telescope. People had bugs where the legionary faces instead of moving were stuck in some demonic open mouthed pose. Combat in Rome2 seemed a little overwhelming as well. The camera angles and the scale of the battlefield not allowing me to track everything properly. The original also had such poor optimisation that the devs removed forcibly the graphics levels and lowered them. Eventually improving them again but in the mean time we at release got a carrot and a stunning looking game that performed horribly and had it turned into a stick figure looking ant fest.


   That wasn't my experience of the first few iterations of Rome2.  For one thing I was some eastern tribal confederation -- you expect some cosmic swirling battles with eastern tribal confederations -- but I very clearly remember one early battle where I ended up using every trick in the book (archers in woods, dismounted lancers obliterating cavalry etc. etc.) and it was fantastic.  Once again, I think people tend to miss the element of pure play in games -- you expect the Tiger tanks or Romans to fulfill some limited roster of dreams and that seems to be it one way or another for many people.  Even in the earliest Rome2, the landscapes were already much better than earlier Total War games (for example).
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 19, 2018, 07:48:08 PM

Do you have a good shot of the entire armies fighting? Also once you get to the republican era in this addon do you get the hastati, principe and triarii (as well as the velites of course) or is the campaign set so early that the romans only get their poor version of hoplites? I wonder if Etruscan Hoplites fight differently to Greek Hoplites in both formation and fighting style??


  I can get screenshots, sure, but I'm busy playing at being an Insubres not testing the Romans.  If you are asking the game to properly differentiate different hoplite fighting methods, you are expecting the game to invent a whole new analysis of the period -- not likely -- I think Burning Blue is the only game that has ever offerred that kind of original research and analysis.  Moreover -- suppose Rome2 or a DLC had done a completely correct re-analysis of hoplite warfare -- that would just guarantee an internet shit-storm and totally mis-informed people told us all they were going to sue for how hoplites were being misrepresented etc. etc.
  Actually the Plataea of the Hoplite game does such a good workman like representation that you can get a better idea of what Herodotus reports -- that that's not likely in most games -- even Field of Glory 2 has an amazingly bad version of Plataea.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Nefaro on August 19, 2018, 09:23:38 PM
Just tried my rome2. This is what my a little bit of zoom does. It hurts my eyes to try to figure out what is going on at this distance. Like watching ghosts fight or little impressionist paintings. Needless to say I don't get any joy out of watching battles like this and thus don't ever load it. Does anybody else have screenshots at the same distance. This was the historical battle of raphia?

Sweet Baby Raptor Jesus, Dest!  Why are you zoomed out so far!?   :o

Just because it lets you zoom out halfway to the moon doesn't mean you should!   :))
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 19, 2018, 10:02:27 PM
Nef. I have to see my whole army. That zoom level is not even half way. That is three units out of 26 on my side. Let alone the enemy side. Show my what your general command zoom level is in total war? I would be curious to see if others think the camera should be locked not too far above the units? Could this be what I am doing wrong? Did not affect me in other total war games.

I just mucked around again turning things off and on. Mucking around with brightness. Changing units to small to make sure the PC is handling it. All seems good but looks horrible.
Anybody got any screenshots?

Might be the LOD. Perhaps their is a mod.
https://forums.totalwar.com/discussion/143634/rome-ii-ultimate-graphics-issues-and-missing-features-thread-updated-2017

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1888/43427364164_205e8b53dd_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1868/29208432597_20f8c067b1_z.jp)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1875/29208432257_ac148d074c_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1888/29208431837_4f5051e46b_z.jpg)

(https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1897/29208431347_a837fea48d_z.jpg)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 19, 2018, 10:35:26 PM

Do you have a good shot of the entire armies fighting? Also once you get to the republican era in this addon do you get the hastati, principe and triarii (as well as the velites of course) or is the campaign set so early that the romans only get their poor version of hoplites? I wonder if Etruscan Hoplites fight differently to Greek Hoplites in both formation and fighting style??


  I can get screenshots, sure, but I'm busy playing at being an Insubres not testing the Romans.  If you are asking the game to properly differentiate different hoplite fighting methods, you are expecting the game to invent a whole new analysis of the period -- not likely -- I think Burning Blue is the only game that has ever offerred that kind of original research and analysis.  Moreover -- suppose Rome2 or a DLC had done a completely correct re-analysis of hoplite warfare -- that would just guarantee an internet shit-storm and totally mis-informed people told us all they were going to sue for how hoplites were being misrepresented etc. etc.
  Actually the Plataea of the Hoplite game does such a good workman like representation that you can get a better idea of what Herodotus reports -- that that's not likely in most games -- even Field of Glory 2 has an amazingly bad version of Plataea.

Yeah. I would settle for being able to see my men. I need to check out rome2 on the computer I built my friend which is much newer than mine.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 20, 2018, 09:33:19 AM

Do you have a good shot of the entire armies fighting? Also once you get to the republican era in this addon do you get the hastati, principe and triarii (as well as the velites of course) or is the campaign set so early that the romans only get their poor version of hoplites? I wonder if Etruscan Hoplites fight differently to Greek Hoplites in both formation and fighting style??


  I can get screenshots, sure, but I'm busy playing at being an Insubres not testing the Romans.  If you are asking the game to properly differentiate different hoplite fighting methods, you are expecting the game to invent a whole new analysis of the period -- not likely -- I think Burning Blue is the only game that has ever offerred that kind of original research and analysis.  Moreover -- suppose Rome2 or a DLC had done a completely correct re-analysis of hoplite warfare -- that would just guarantee an internet shit-storm and totally mis-informed people told us all they were going to sue for how hoplites were being misrepresented etc. etc.
  Actually the Plataea of the Hoplite game does such a good workman like representation that you can get a better idea of what Herodotus reports -- that that's not likely in most games -- even Field of Glory 2 has an amazingly bad version of Plataea.

Yeah. I would settle for being able to see my men. I need to check out rome2 on the computer I built my friend which is much newer than mine.

  Here's Etruscan Hoplites and spearmen effectively in columns during the reassembly phase of the battle.  At this point, Samorix, the Ex-Priestess's replacement, has busted the Tarquinian line and is assembling the army on a hill before finishing off the enemy cavalry and chariots and leaders and archers in the woods -- having no cavalry, no chariots and few archers of her own, this can be a tricky moment especially if they pick off her and her elderly sword guard lolly-gagging in the woods as has almost happened -- she was saved by a passing gang of slingers and some spearmen that she had "inspired" earlier who were still pursuing some chariots)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 20, 2018, 01:08:24 PM
There's gotta be a way you can make a living from this skill of yours.

  Probably this skill is a minor variation on my basic money-earning skill: use standard software to get interesting and even useful results.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 20, 2018, 01:39:58 PM
Useful! It gets better!!
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 20, 2018, 06:56:44 PM
Menís. looking at your screenshots. How do you control your army and see whatís going on. Zoomed in so far? Can you show some screenshots of your normal control height?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 20, 2018, 08:58:20 PM
Menís. looking at your screenshots. How do you control your army and see whatís going on. Zoomed in so far? Can you show some screenshots of your normal control height?

  For normal control, I'm usually zoomed all the way out.  Makes for dull images.  I zoom in for pictures much later in the battle or occasionally before the battle.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 21, 2018, 08:48:26 AM
Ok. Here's my best attempt at a MengJiao Mimic. The First Triumvirate Mod for Attila Total War: Cesar leads a night assault on the Gauls of Sederic at Narbo.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 21, 2018, 09:04:11 AM
Ok. Here's my best attempt at a MengJiao Mimic. The First Triumvirate Mod for Attila Total War: Cesar leads a night assault on the Gauls of Sederic at Narbo.

  Wow!  I love it!  Heavy Metal City!!!
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 21, 2018, 09:33:01 AM
Nice screenshot. How did the rest of your army do while you were showboating around with your migs? Haha!
MengJiao I still want that command level screenshot. I want to see whether it matches up with mine... so I can compare if its the game of my pc.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 21, 2018, 10:27:24 AM
Nice screenshot. How did the rest of your army do while you were showboating around with your migs? Haha!
MengJiao I still want that command level screenshot. I want to see whether it matches up with mine... so I can compare if its the game of my pc.

   Very dull, but here it is:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 21, 2018, 12:04:32 PM
Slash you cheated by pausing the game to take your shot! Yellow card for you :/
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 21, 2018, 02:40:00 PM
OK then. Next shot will be full non-paused.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 21, 2018, 06:52:01 PM
Good man.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 21, 2018, 09:21:05 PM
Useful! It gets better!!

   Tough times for Etruria:
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 21, 2018, 09:27:29 PM
The guy with the blue shield looks VERY disappointed. Probably got there late and all the shields with the cool designs were already taken.  #:-)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 21, 2018, 10:10:33 PM
Nice screenshot. How did the rest of your army do while you were showboating around with your migs? Haha!
MengJiao I still want that command level screenshot. I want to see whether it matches up with mine... so I can compare if its the game of my pc.

   Very dull, but here it is:

Thank you. So it is not my PC. Yours screenshot (although in darkness rather than light) also shows it looks like they are rag clad zombies at that range. They seriously look like they are missing parts due to the  the LOD simplifying them and turning them into 2D elements I suspect. The skirmishers at the front especially look like stick figures.

Here  this is much clearer::
(https://i.stack.imgur.com/orWlM.png)

Than this:
(http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22747.0;attach=13384;image)

(http://slitherine.com/files/games/651/20170613012809.jpg)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 22, 2018, 06:50:36 AM

Thank you. So it is not my PC. Yours screenshot (although in darkness rather than light) also shows it looks like they are rag clad zombies at that range. They seriously look like they are missing parts due to the  the LOD simplifying them and turning them into 2D elements I suspect. The skirmishers at the front especially look like stick figures.


  So true, but I think on the dusty plains of Etruria, an actual observer would have seen something much more like the Rome II image than the other two.  At 4-500 meters, people are likely to look pretty simplified.  Plus in the other two images, a lot more simplifications occur before the image is presented.  Rome II has hundreds of figures in each formation and the other two have around 10% of that.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 22, 2018, 06:53:58 AM
The guy with the blue shield looks VERY disappointed. Probably got there late and all the shields with the cool designs were already taken.  #:-)

  I think the camera was moving faster than the program could draw something on all the shields.  You see a lot of visual weirdness when you buzz around with a camera (well -- even in reality ).  For example a spear coming right through a sheild (just plain clipping i guess).
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 22, 2018, 08:47:41 AM
I love to zip around looking at the battle scenes in the TW games close-up but don't do it very often because so much can happen so quickly in the battles I might miss something important.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 22, 2018, 09:18:19 AM
I love to zip around looking at the battle scenes in the TW games close-up but don't do it very often because so much can happen so quickly in the battles I might miss something important.

   For that particular screenshot -- it was a snowy day with rain falling (much better for colors than the sunlight of Rome II) AND the Enemy Etruscans had attacked my advanced guard that had just stormed a village.  I was expecting reinforcements so i had everybody (cavalry and skirmishers and archers and slingers) out delaying -- well the reinforcements never came (oddly enough) so I called in the delaying forces and got them behind the hoplites on the last ditch hill defense.  The enemy pushed right on in and I threw in the cavalry to brace what little defense there was and the enemy began to break.  I was expecting my side to break (so why not take a few screenshots?) so this shot is from the perspective of an enemy force that is about to start breaking.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 22, 2018, 03:11:35 PM
Useful! It gets better!!

   Tough times for Etruria:

   And I switch to Rome and the Roman Hoplites get on a ship:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 22, 2018, 09:42:20 PM


  And Hobbits and Etruscans get ready to back off into the sunset:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on August 23, 2018, 05:57:29 AM
Next up in TW:Warhammer 3: HOPLITE HOBBITS!  :D
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 23, 2018, 08:56:10 AM
I'd buy it day one.  :notworthy:
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 24, 2018, 07:04:19 AM
 :'(
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 24, 2018, 07:23:18 AM
:'(

   Yep, sadly, I'm leaving dusty Etruria for the Seven-Year's War.  And there is no Hobbit Hoplite mod for Total War Total War hammer yet.  However!  The Rome II Rise of the Republic DLC is still available!  So grab a shield, say good-bye to your Mom!  ("Bye Mom!"), strap on a spear and get out there!
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 24, 2018, 09:01:56 PM
BYE MOM
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 25, 2018, 08:12:20 PM

Thank you. So it is not my PC. Yours screenshot (although in darkness rather than light) also shows it looks like they are rag clad zombies at that range. They seriously look like they are missing parts due to the  the LOD simplifying them and turning them into 2D elements I suspect. The skirmishers at the front especially look like stick figures.


  So true, but I think on the dusty plains of Etruria, an actual observer would have seen something much more like the Rome II image than the other two.  At 4-500 meters, people are likely to look pretty simplified.  Plus in the other two images, a lot more simplifications occur before the image is presented.  Rome II has hundreds of figures in each formation and the other two have around 10% of that.

To me that does not look like 500m away. Maybe it's 200-300m across.

Hold hard neddy. Trying to find photos of the same distance that are taken in fairly good quality in good light.

(https://img2.rtve.es/v/3121741/)

(https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-6z8T14g4Vr4/Vblc65oIAWI/AAAAAAAAAU0/DgSfhgEaIF8/s1600/313796.jpg)

(http://p-gruporpp-media.s3.amazonaws.com/2012/07/29/682659.jpg)

(https://cdni.rt.com/files/2015.09/original/55e7e7b1c461889b6e8b45f0.jpg)



(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/07/30/12/42D1A94600000578-0-image-m-43_1501413702032.jpg)


(https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/10/12/10/2D50BE4A00000578-0-image-a-18_1444643369534.jpg)

(https://media.defense.gov/2018/Aug/24/2001958139/1088/820/0/180814-F-SP573-988.JPG)

See how they don't blend into the ground like total war figures do. They don't all go brown or black like the desert.
(https://kresy.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/170405095800-09-north-korea-weapons-restricted-super-169.jpg)

(http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22747.0;attach=13384;image)

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 25, 2018, 08:42:33 PM
Hard to find good top down photos so I started looking at wargames tables. Which are at least on the same angle as total war.
Then I sort of gave up for now. Because reality is it is just hard to find photos of this stuff from the air.

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-quxGih-kFq4/UFtLXBjieII/AAAAAAAAAMc/AxrNQ02A0Uw/s1600/492.JPG)

(https://cdn.thinglink.me/api/image/855224782327644160/1240/10/scaletowidth)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-agRo7Oa6tzE/VJFcsKYS9wI/AAAAAAAAKss/za2rZVRJJX0/s1600/terracotta_05.jpg)

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 25, 2018, 08:47:31 PM
Maybe the Russians have some good pics.

(https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/british-troops-battle-of-waterloo-1815-napoleonic-wars-19th-century-picture-id647346399)

(http://mapswar2.x10host.com/Allied_Cavalry_repulse_French_near_Hougomont.JPG)

(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2015/06/reenacting-the-battle-of-waterloo/w09_RTX1HB2Y/main_900.jpg?1434996356)

(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/20/b9/ea/20b9ead979fa3a20b9b6e67d5908123c--battle-of-waterloo-napoleonic-wars.jpg)

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 25, 2018, 08:55:57 PM
Struggling to find ancient ones though

(http://ratobor.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/DH9B3854.jpg)

(https://ak5.picdn.net/shutterstock/videos/30962395/thumb/1.jpg)

(http://ratobor.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/5/IMG_3529.jpg)

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 25, 2018, 08:58:48 PM
(https://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/photo/2016/03/more-of-the-chinese-art-of-the-crow/c03_RTX1EEL1/main_900.jpg?1459445699)

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 26, 2018, 06:58:19 AM

Thank you. So it is not my PC. Yours screenshot (although in darkness rather than light) also shows it looks like they are rag clad zombies at that range. They seriously look like they are missing parts due to the  the LOD simplifying them and turning them into 2D elements I suspect. The skirmishers at the front especially look like stick figures.


  So true, but I think on the dusty plains of Etruria, an actual observer would have seen something much more like the Rome II image than the other two.  At 4-500 meters, people are likely to look pretty simplified.  Plus in the other two images, a lot more simplifications occur before the image is presented.  Rome II has hundreds of figures in each formation and the other two have around 10% of that.

To me that does not look like 500m away. Maybe it's 200-300m across.

Hold hard neddy. Trying to find photos of the same distance that are taken in fairly good quality in good light.

See how they don't blend into the ground like total war figures do. They don't all go brown or black like the desert.
(https://kresy.pl/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/170405095800-09-north-korea-weapons-restricted-super-169.jpg)

(http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=22747.0;attach=13384;image)

 The guys right behind the empty viewing stand right behind the missiles look exactly like total war guys.  Plus, given an army frontage of say 500 meters, the total war guys are twice as far away as the north koreans.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 26, 2018, 08:10:33 AM
Yeah. its not the clearest focus in that photo. Well suffice to say previous total wars were better.

Warhammer total war seems to look better
(https://images.gamewatcherstatic.com/image/file/0/9c/85730/Arena_Screenshot_04.png)

(http://www.mobygames.com/images/promo/original/7d3e7c7a77f04094bb3a546a2e671fa7.jpg)

So does arena
(https://s2.15min.lt/images/photos/2017/11/24/original/total-war-arena-5a1826c10e688.jpg)

Three Kingdoms looks like it might also look better at range:
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/jQX6qBiCu9E/maxresdefault.jpg)

ultimate general certainly does
(https://images-2.gog.com/a3ad057defbfb5386ea0052c69487d842cbbaf49935445d4533c2674d991f8eb_product_card_screenshot_748.jpg)


Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 26, 2018, 08:16:20 AM
Shogun 2
I seriously just think rome2 is bugged or dumbed down since release. Shogun 2 looks 100% better at distance.
(https://content.totalwar.com/total-war/com.totalwar.www/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/31090904/bigBattleOverlook.png)

(https://www.licente-jocuri.ro/image/cache/data/in_game/Shogun_2_Fall_Of_the_Samurai/image_4-1920x1080.jpg)

(https://www.shamusyoung.com/twentysidedtale/images/shogun18-6.jpg)

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 26, 2018, 08:24:06 AM
Yeah. its not the clearest focus in that photo. Well suffice to say previous total wars were better.


   It's just a different color palate.  To my eye the colors in Rome II look a lot less busy and more like reality.  i think this has been a problem all along for Rome Two: the landscapes are more real in Rome II and people are not used to what real landscapes look like.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 26, 2018, 08:24:39 AM
I think perhaps they need more spacing between ranks and more unified colours at distance. As you zoom out they need to conform in shape more and become something less messy and blurry.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on August 26, 2018, 08:26:50 AM
I prefer clarity. Just like I do when I watch a movie. Hate those blurred shots. People are 3D AND DO not blur into the landscape the way they do in rome2. I suspect they do this because their new engine turns them into flat sprites at distance.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 26, 2018, 01:38:38 PM
Everyone knows Shogun 2 is the best TW game evah.

I agree with Meng that the difference is the color palette.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 26, 2018, 08:52:51 PM
I thought Napoleon Total War had gorgeous soldier graphics. Now the AI tactics however...... #:-)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 27, 2018, 06:07:05 AM
NO! Shogun 2. Itís academic, really. 🤡
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 27, 2018, 10:01:02 AM
Shogun 2's battlefields are too small. NTW's Are the size of Kansas. Could be just me though, I played Shogun 2 on a 'Shamefurl Display'.  :DD
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 27, 2018, 10:06:03 AM
Shogun 2's battlefields are too small. NTW's Are the size of Kansas. Could be just me though, I played Shogun 2 on a 'Shamefurl Display'.  :DD

   I'm actually very happy with the Rise of the Republic -- good maps, fun units -- Actually - it's my favorite total war ever (bye Shogun 2!).
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 27, 2018, 10:07:01 AM
Cue Gus Rant in 3...2...1.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 27, 2018, 10:54:02 AM
I canít even look at you. Either of you.

That said this thread has made me interested in the era and I will thusly pick up the dlc once it goes on sale.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Nefaro on August 27, 2018, 08:50:07 PM
Yeah. its not the clearest focus in that photo. Well suffice to say previous total wars were better.


   It's just a different color palate.  To my eye the colors in Rome II look a lot less busy and more like reality.  i think this has been a problem all along for Rome Two: the landscapes are more real in Rome II and people are not used to what real landscapes look like.

TW Rome II has it's own brown-ish color filter over the whole screen.

I was never a fan of this shit-smear filter, but the devs seemed to think it lended some mood of anitiquity.  ::)  It just looked like a constant dust storm to me.   That said, I didn't let it detract from my Rome 2 gameplay, especially since it had so many factions in one of my favorite historical wargaming periods.  Was more sore about them not bothering to put frame art in the UI.. lazy bastids.  :))
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 28, 2018, 07:29:57 AM
I canít even look at you. Either of you.

That said this thread has made me interested in the era and I will thusly pick up the dlc once it goes on sale.

  I'm still shrouded in the dust of Ancient Etruria.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 28, 2018, 08:50:32 AM
As you should be.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 28, 2018, 09:20:41 AM
I hear Comet is good for Ancient Etrurian Dust stains. Got that from a very-old but not ancient Etrurian.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 28, 2018, 09:35:35 AM
HA do they even sell that biohazard anymore?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 28, 2018, 12:44:15 PM
Yes, but only in Etruria these days.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 28, 2018, 12:49:13 PM
That explains everything.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 28, 2018, 01:56:45 PM
That explains everything.

  Tunguska 1907.  Comet.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 28, 2018, 05:22:57 PM
And.... that took care of all the Tunguska dust didn't it?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 28, 2018, 06:25:47 PM
And.... that took care of all the Tunguska dust didn't it?

  I can't say Siberia is as dust-free as it used to be.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 28, 2018, 09:07:40 PM
Comet was great stuff. It could take off any kind of mark except the ones my Daddy used to leave on my ass. And it came close with them.  O0
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 28, 2018, 09:43:51 PM
Comet was great stuff. It could take off any kind of mark except the ones my Daddy used to leave on my ass. And it came close with them.  O0

  All I can say is: nobody ever gave me a whuppin' after I blew up the garage.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 29, 2018, 07:23:02 AM
 :o
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 29, 2018, 08:04:40 AM
You were lucky Meng. My Daddy used to whip me for stuff other kids did.  ;D  It was kind of a 'Blanket Beating' policy.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on August 29, 2018, 08:17:24 AM
 :o :o
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 29, 2018, 09:57:22 AM
You were lucky Meng. My Daddy used to whip me for stuff other kids did.  ;D  It was kind of a 'Blanket Beating' policy.

  I just had unspoken blanket blow-up-the-garage policy.  There was a certain mystery to it, but also a deep understanding of the explosive power of natural gas in a confined space -- such as a garage.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 29, 2018, 12:37:12 PM
That's a good lesson to learn early. It was early wasn't it?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on August 29, 2018, 04:57:47 PM
That's a good lesson to learn early. It was early wasn't it?

  10?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on August 29, 2018, 08:55:20 PM
That's a good age. Old enough to know how to cause trouble but young enough not to be legally responsible.  O0
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 04, 2018, 09:25:54 PM
That's a good age. Old enough to know how to cause trouble but young enough not to be legally responsible.  O0

   Mercenaries battering each other in Sicily (there's been a patch!!!!):

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 05, 2018, 09:08:28 AM
That's a good age. Old enough to know how to cause trouble but young enough not to be legally responsible.  O0

   Mercenaries battering each other in Sicily (there's been a patch!!!!):

    And another bad day in a little-known Greco-Roman fish market:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 05, 2018, 10:26:46 AM
Special of the Day at that Fish Market: Swordfish!   :DD   Seriously, nice pics. They make me want to compulsively buy and play this game just to see what cool new units are in it.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 05, 2018, 11:16:59 AM
Special of the Day at that Fish Market: Swordfish!   :DD   Seriously, nice pics. They make me want to compulsively buy and play this game just to see what cool new units are in it.

With the new Patch, i started as the Normal Tarantines again.  This time I'm just going to ignore the disloyalty; the more you fool with the politics the more trouble you have.  If somebody wants a civil war, I'm going to be happy to give it to him.  I have a philosopher with my army and we are quite philisophical about it.
As for cool units -- the first post-patch picture (mercenaries battering) is from a custom battle, and features rare and expensive hoplites.  the image of the fish-market fracas is from an early battle featuring the Tarantine local native Iaygarian people chopping up some sailors.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 05, 2018, 05:32:38 PM


   And its hard to get your war going when these little guys with axes keep turning up:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 05, 2018, 05:40:07 PM
Short people with axes are always a problem.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on September 05, 2018, 07:08:57 PM
 >:D
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Nefaro on September 06, 2018, 11:56:30 AM


   And its hard to get your war going when these little guys with axes keep turning up:

Don't take any shit from them.  Beat their axes!

 :knuppel2:
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on September 06, 2018, 11:57:02 AM
 :o
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 07, 2018, 05:17:53 PM
Short people with axes are always a problem.

  Our reinforcements.  Striding confidently across the pages of ancient history:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on September 07, 2018, 05:39:53 PM
Don't get cocky!
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 07, 2018, 08:05:01 PM
Don't get cocky!

   These guys were not striding all that cockily -- I think they were just slingers.  Wait til i get some screenshots of the Scary-o-dot Lite Hoplites!
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 07, 2018, 08:35:19 PM
They don't look too short and they don't have axes so you should be OK.  :coolsmiley:
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 07, 2018, 08:49:12 PM
They don't look too short and they don't have axes so you should be OK.  :coolsmiley:

Yep.  And here are some standard hoplites who have just survived against all the odds and are winning:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on September 07, 2018, 11:11:31 PM
That is a pretty loose formation actually. Must have been some fight.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 08, 2018, 07:01:16 AM
That is a pretty loose formation actually. Must have been some fight.

   It was pretty intense.  We the Tarantines attacked the Samnites in a village and it turned out they had two armies in range so the battle was something like Taratines at 1500 attacking 3000 Samnites.  At one point this particular hoplite formation was engaged on two sides (I have the murky screenshots to prove it!) but still got loose and eventually did this final assault seen above.

   PS:  Not so Murky, but here are the Taratine Hoplites attacked from two sides with their own skirmishers trying to panic in the middle of it all:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on September 08, 2018, 10:38:23 AM
Pfft...why recruit hoplites and not go directly for the heavy ones??
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 08, 2018, 11:44:58 AM
Pfft...why recruit hoplites and not go directly for the heavy ones??

  The skirmishers are a separate formation.  In the game hoplites do come in various configurations -- light, regular and the commander's bunch which tends to be superheavy.
   So there's a lot of differentiation around the basic armored guy with a shield and spear thing -- for example, the Samnites have armored spearmen not hoplites and so do the Gauls.  And then there are all kinds of other hoplites -- BUT they are really all just more or less heavy, spear-armed infantry.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on September 08, 2018, 11:59:48 AM
But 'hoplite' is an awesome word to read and say. Much better than 'spearman.'
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 08, 2018, 08:49:03 PM
Oh, it's a spearman. I thought we were talking about small, fast rabbits.  #:-)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Father Ted on September 09, 2018, 01:17:14 PM
And smarter too. Instead of cutting off an ear to impress his Lady, he just cropped it.  :bd:

Obviously a "thing" with artists - Van Gogh did the ear cropping too
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: jomni on September 09, 2018, 09:34:08 PM
Hoplites are called hoplites because of the shield they carry.
Noticed something wrong.  Hoplites should be thrusting with spears overhead while pushing with shield. Not thrusting low like regular spearmen.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on September 10, 2018, 04:10:31 AM
Jomni that is the subject of hot debate. A lot of contemporary art certainly shows the overhead method and older mods for rome1 showed the animations with overhead (europa baraborum iirc).
I own a book called storm of spears I need to read that sheds some light on it iirc.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/610I7upu%2BAL._SX343_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: besilarius on September 10, 2018, 05:12:15 AM
For what it's worth.  In the Renaissance, the Swiss pikemen, who had a lot of training in their canton system, used the overhead  carry and thrust.
The german Landsknechts, who typically were recruited each season, used the under hand carry.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Destraex on September 10, 2018, 05:24:46 AM
For what it's worth.  In the Renaissance, the Swiss pikemen, who had a lot of training in their canton system, used the overhead  carry and thrust.
The german Landsknechts, who typically were recruited each season, used the under hand carry.

Yes but they did not have the massive hoplon shields to carry.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 10, 2018, 07:07:37 AM
Hoplites are called hoplites because of the shield they carry.
Noticed something wrong.  Hoplites should be thrusting with spears overhead while pushing with shield. Not thrusting low like regular spearmen.

  The Chigi vase (via wikipedia) shows both spear positions and overhand thrusts do happen in the game:

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: mikeck on September 10, 2018, 05:45:09 PM
Might the method of carrying the spear vary based on what you are doing? Meaning maybe if your unit is trying to hold against another units ďpushĒ, holding the spears lower would provide a sturdier platform and lower center of gravity. Maybe when protecting musket units against cavalry (obviously 15th-17th century) While a unit trying to attack might use overhand? Iíve no idea but it. Seems like it would be a lot harder to push back a phalanx when they have Spears braced against the body as opposed to over the Shoulder?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 11, 2018, 12:16:06 PM
   It was pretty intense. 

   Sometimes even the most basic melees can degenerate into purely philosophical disagreements -- as seen here where the Insubres are offering a vaguely Wittgensteinian caveat to the standard Ligurian objection -- as in "Oh, yeah?  Well you are pretty implausible yourself."
To which the Ligurian is probably offering only the barest of Empirical notes: "I never said that I wasn't, but at least I don't have a horse to fall off of to begin with.":

Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Rayfer on September 11, 2018, 12:48:16 PM
LOL...well played MJ.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 11, 2018, 01:18:13 PM
LOL...well played MJ.

  Thanks!  Those barbarians do look dumbfounded.  A lot of nice helmet diversity, though.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Philippe on September 11, 2018, 02:19:04 PM
Hoplites are called hoplites because of the shield they carry.
Noticed something wrong.  Hoplites should be thrusting with spears overhead while pushing with shield. Not thrusting low like regular spearmen.

  The Chigi vase (via wikipedia) shows both spear positions and overhand thrusts do happen in the game:

What I see when I look at that vase is two different overhand positions: one when you're actually trying to stick someone, and one when you're in overhand position but resting.  The difference has to do with whether you raise your arm or not.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 11, 2018, 03:26:51 PM
Hoplites are called hoplites because of the shield they carry.
Noticed something wrong.  Hoplites should be thrusting with spears overhead while pushing with shield. Not thrusting low like regular spearmen.

  The Chigi vase (via wikipedia) shows both spear positions and overhand thrusts do happen in the game:

What I see when I look at that vase is two different overhand positions: one when you're actually trying to stick someone, and one when you're in overhand position but resting.  The difference has to do with whether you raise your arm or not.

  Possibly, but the upward-pointing-carry would transform into an underhand thrust before some kind of swap into an overhand.  Also rear-ranks might go upward-pointing and then to underhand (the same hand position) while overhand might be for the front ranks and/or even a lighter spear or something.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 11, 2018, 09:54:33 PM
Dammit Meng, you and your screenshots have made me so hot for some hoplite action that I broke down and reinstalled Rome 2. Maybe I'll spring for the DLC too. Oh well, time to make Rome great again( not a political statement).
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 12, 2018, 05:01:33 AM
Dammit Meng, you and your screenshots have made me so hot for some hoplite action that I broke down and reinstalled Rome 2. Maybe I'll spring for the DLC too. Oh well, time to make Rome great again( not a political statement).

  For me at least, this DLC really hits the spot:  Lots of Gauls, lots of Etruscans, lots of Samnites, lots of Magna Grecians, the occasional Punic encounter and so on...
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 12, 2018, 09:13:39 AM
Only thing I'm not sure about is whether it's worth the bother to reinstall the Radious mod or not. Anybody know how vanilla is now with all the updates?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on September 12, 2018, 11:58:17 AM
Delicious.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 13, 2018, 07:41:22 AM
Only thing I'm not sure about is whether it's worth the bother to reinstall the Radious mod or not. Anybody know how vanilla is now with all the updates?

  What did the Radious mod do?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on September 13, 2018, 07:47:41 AM
Itís an overhaul mod so it changes almost every aspect of the game and adds a lot of new units.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 13, 2018, 09:31:34 AM
Itís an overhaul mod so it changes almost every aspect of the game and adds a lot of new units.

  Possibly not relevant at this point to the Rise of the Republic DLC?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 13, 2018, 09:44:05 AM
Possibly but relevant to my re-load of Rome 2. The Radious and DEI mods are both adjusting their mods to be available for Rise of the Republic. I went with the DEI mod for Rome 2. Return to topic.  ;)
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 13, 2018, 10:03:43 AM
Possibly but relevant to my re-load of Rome 2. The Radious and DEI mods are both adjusting their mods to be available for Rise of the Republic. I went with the DEI mod for Rome 2. Return to topic.  ;)

   That's okay, man...Your epic journey to the gates of the Ancient World IS the topic.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Tuna on September 13, 2018, 11:08:35 AM
Which of the two mods do people recommend? if you install a Mod, do you need to disable updates to the game after?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on September 13, 2018, 11:52:28 AM
Radious in particular is very good at keeping his mods up to date and compatible with patches, dlc, etc.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 13, 2018, 12:41:29 PM
Very true. I remember when Rome 2 came out and they were patching it to death, every one screwed-up his mod but he caught it up pretty quick which couldn't have been easy. You can disable updates when using mods but it isn't necessary. But updates may interfere with the mods. If the mods are kept current, not abandoned by the author, then it shouldn't be a real problem. I'll post some thoughts on the DEI mod after I play it a bit.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Tuna on September 13, 2018, 01:28:32 PM
So do you install by just finding it in the Steam workshop and activate it?
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: JasonPratt on September 13, 2018, 02:14:16 PM
In my experience, you have to subscribe to it (and all its pieces where applicable) in the workshop; and then, if I recall correctly (I'll try to check when I get home), when you launch Rome 2 there will be an overlay to choose which mods to activate before actually running the game.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 13, 2018, 02:34:39 PM
That's right. Steam Workshop: the DEI mod has 10 parts that all have to be subscribed to in order, Radious I believe only has one, can't remember for sure. You can also go to the "Total War Center" and get them there too and both mods have their own sites as well. But you can find everything you need to know, links, sites and some videos, at the Steam Workshop. YouTube also has many videos of all things TW.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on September 13, 2018, 07:20:50 PM
Pratt is correct. Some Radious mods (depending on the game) can have more than one part. Either way it is so much easier than it used to be with downloads, extractions, applications and even futzing with code. Now get off my lawn!
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Nefaro on September 13, 2018, 08:44:10 PM
Only thing I'm not sure about is whether it's worth the bother to reinstall the Radious mod or not. Anybody know how vanilla is now with all the updates?

  What did the Radious mod do?

In the past, it has made the campaign easier for those who don't like such things as rebellion mechanics or putting effort into keeping their economy & food in the black while building like no other.   L:-)

Had some good things in older TWs.  Such as adjusting the unit speeds.  However, you could find those in other mods too.

I used to dig it for the speed fixes years ago but after realizing how it turned the turn-based campaign side into Easy Mode, I never went back.  I enjoy the campaign side too much. 
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 13, 2018, 08:54:36 PM
So it's not.....terrific?  :2funny:
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Nefaro on September 13, 2018, 08:59:15 PM
So it's not.....terrific?  :2funny:

Has some good with some bad.

Question is... do you really want TW's campaign to get easier?  Sometimes I think people raise the campaign game difficulty then complain about having to deal with the economic and pop happiness, but don't want to feel inadequate by lowering the difficulty slider back down.  So this happens.  ???
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 13, 2018, 09:08:07 PM
I liked Radious well enough for Rome 2 and Attila but the Warhammer TW version actually made the game harder for me.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Tuna on September 14, 2018, 07:10:51 AM
So it's not.....terrific?  :2funny:

Has some good with some bad.

Question is... do you really want TW's campaign to get easier?  Sometimes I think people raise the campaign game difficulty then complain about having to deal with the economic and pop happiness, but don't want to feel inadequate by lowering the difficulty slider back down.  So this happens.  ???

No, I would not want the campaign to be easier!
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Tuna on September 14, 2018, 07:12:24 AM
Although, all these Civil Wars are driving me crazy! Now I make damn sure opposing clan members are not commanding large armies!
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Gusington on September 14, 2018, 08:33:46 AM
You sound like a true Caesar.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Philippe on September 30, 2018, 01:08:03 PM
Hoplites are called hoplites because of the shield they carry.
Noticed something wrong.  Hoplites should be thrusting with spears overhead while pushing with shield. Not thrusting low like regular spearmen.

  The Chigi vase (via wikipedia) shows both spear positions and overhand thrusts do happen in the game:

What I see when I look at that vase is two different overhand positions: one when you're actually trying to stick someone, and one when you're in overhand position but resting.  The difference has to do with whether you raise your arm or not.

  Possibly, but the upward-pointing-carry would transform into an underhand thrust before some kind of swap into an overhand.  Also rear-ranks might go upward-pointing and then to underhand (the same hand position) while overhand might be for the front ranks and/or even a lighter spear or something.

During a recent visit to the Greek section at the Met I counted more than twenty examples of overhand use, and only three examples of underhand, two of which were ambiguous (the person holding the spear underhand was running away and turning to look back at his opponent).

I've been watching a few videos on this recently, and I've been surprised by how good a weapon a spear is when matched up against a sword. 

This one deals with the overhand/underhand question and is worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p93xUp9GrQ

I've seen the video that Matt mentions about the fight camp match-up of different swords against spears and it's fascinating.  Changes how you think about spear vs. sword.  Here's a link to the long version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afqhBODc_8U

And the more condensed version that includes some analysis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLLv8E2pWdk
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: MengJiao on September 30, 2018, 08:00:29 PM
Hoplites are called hoplites because of the shield they carry.
Noticed something wrong.  Hoplites should be thrusting with spears overhead while pushing with shield. Not thrusting low like regular spearmen.

  The Chigi vase (via wikipedia) shows both spear positions and overhand thrusts do happen in the game:

What I see when I look at that vase is two different overhand positions: one when you're actually trying to stick someone, and one when you're in overhand position but resting.  The difference has to do with whether you raise your arm or not.

  Possibly, but the upward-pointing-carry would transform into an underhand thrust before some kind of swap into an overhand.  Also rear-ranks might go upward-pointing and then to underhand (the same hand position) while overhand might be for the front ranks and/or even a lighter spear or something.

During a recent visit to the Greek section at the Met I counted more than twenty examples of overhand use, and only three examples of underhand, two of which were ambiguous (the person holding the spear underhand was running away and turning to look back at his opponent).

I've been watching a few videos on this recently, and I've been surprised by how good a weapon a spear is when matched up against a sword. 

This one deals with the overhand/underhand question and is worth watching:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p93xUp9GrQ

I've seen the video that Matt mentions about the fight camp match-up of different swords against spears and it's fascinating.  Changes how you think about spear vs. sword.  Here's a link to the long version:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afqhBODc_8U

And the more condensed version that includes some analysis:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uLLv8E2pWdk

  While art works may show a preponderance of overhand spear-postures, it seems likely that for much of the time, the spears where held in other ways.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: jomni on September 30, 2018, 08:10:35 PM
Spear vs sword... in Feudal Japan, the spears are the primary battlefield weapon of the Samurai. Swords are just sidearms.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Sir Slash on September 30, 2018, 08:41:37 PM
I believe this whole thread is becoming underhanded if you ask me.
Title: Re: Total War: Rome II THE RISE OF ROME dlc
Post by: Bardolph on September 30, 2018, 10:02:56 PM
Spear vs sword... in Feudal Japan, the spears are the primary battlefield weapon of the Samurai. Swords are just sidearms.


In Japan the hand can be used like a knife...






...but not with a tomato.