GrogHeads Forum

Digital Gaming => Computer Wargaming => Topic started by: Grim.Reaper on May 05, 2018, 02:21:08 AM

Title: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Grim.Reaper on May 05, 2018, 02:21:08 AM
Looks like it might be an interesting game from Matrix/Slitherine...due third quarter this year.




owards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once.

Julius Caesar, Shakespeare

Slitherine announces Aggressors: Ancient Rome - the new turn-based 4X strategy game that brings you back to the ancient world. A mix of deep gameplay and rich historical flavour, Aggressors lets you relive history as the ruler of one of the mighty civilizations of the Mediterranean world. Choose Rome to conquer the Mare Nostrum, or Carthage and build an immortal trading empire. Choose one of twenty available factions and conquer the world, changing the course of history, from Egypt to Athens and Sparta.

Watch the trailer!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLMDSTZerng

Be like Gaius Marius, with his exceptional abilities in reforming Rome and its army. You can manage all aspects of your empire: war, trade, internal politics, diplomacy and cultural development. Rule your empire by managing its internal politics and developing its economy. Establish trade routes to reap wealth, ensure the loyalty of your citizens, manage demographics, technological research, internal reforms, and laws; the tools at your disposal are endless and seamlessly integrate with each other. But beware: citizens react to the current situation and they can move to other places when they are not happy.

Be like Caesar, with his unparalleled strategic genius.Experience the incredibly deep combat system, with each unit having its own abilities and traits, with terrain affecting the outcome in a meaningful way. Army morale and the supply system are crucial and need to be considered before any battle. You will need all your guile and strategic mastery to triumph on the battlefield. Vae victis!

Be like Hannibal, play your own way and surprise the enemy. Play on your strengths, beware of your weaknesses. The ancient world is brutal, for no mercy shall be given to the defeated. Twenty factions, from migrating barbarian tribes to advanced empires, which interact with each other through an extremely detailed diplomatic system. Make use of more than ten available diplomatic agreements, including the possibility of forming Federations and Confederations as well as affecting nations and provinces in your sphere of influence.

Believe us, you never played a 4X like Aggressors. Manage all aspects of your mighty empire with complete freedom: you can decide to start with an advanced nation surrounded by newer civilizations, or you can choose to start as a young tribe, ready to take on an older and decadent empire… or you can decide to completely randomize the map and play in a uniquely generated world. The choice is yours!Dive into Aggressor at your own pace: thanks to the tutorial and tool tips you can gradually explore all the options available to you.

(http://slitherine.com/files/games/723/20180504031529.jpg)
(http://slitherine.com/files/games/723/20180504031514.jpg)

 

Aggressors: Ancient Rome will be available on Steam and PC in Q3. The Beta is open now! Slitherine is looking for experienced players who want to test their abilities in Aggressors. Join up here!
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on May 05, 2018, 10:16:59 AM
This looks solid...must explore more later. Thanks for posting!
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Philippe on May 05, 2018, 10:52:27 AM
The geography is a bit troubling though.  I'm hoping that was a fantasy rather than an historical map of northern Egypt.  Most of the town locations are wrong.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: glen55 on May 05, 2018, 11:12:57 AM
The geography is a bit troubling though.  I'm hoping that was a fantasy rather than an historical map of northern Egypt.  Most of the town locations are wrong.

It does say "you can decide to completely randomize the map and play in a uniquely generated world," so hopefully that is what we are looking at. I wouldn't expect Slitherine to totally screw the pooch in terms of ancient geography.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: fabius on May 05, 2018, 11:50:57 AM
Nice. Big eye on this one.

Hope it has enough depth.

Is it me or do turn based tend to offer a better AI than real-time...
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: SlitherineLtd on May 07, 2018, 02:47:02 AM
The geography is a bit troubling though.  I'm hoping that was a fantasy rather than an historical map of northern Egypt.  Most of the town locations are wrong.

Hi Philippe.

The screenshots were taken in a game which had already started: in the Ancient Mediterranean scenario, there's a few starting cities then it's up to the player (or the AI) to build new cities. Players get to name them as they want (although they get suggested names), while the AI picks names depending on an algorithm.

When a new city is founded the game first checks if a city was already there and destroyed / abandoned, in that game: if so it'll pick that name.

If not, it looks for preset list of city names and their location. There is a small "bias" for that, so it can be shifted one or two tiles (because there were not so many cities to have a special name for each tile). If it cannot find even any preset names for that location, it randomly select a name from a stack of free city names.

For example - the city Bononia is not at the exact same location but it is in the range or 1-2 tiles so it was picked.

Of course the system is still being tweaked as is the geography of the map. All these little touches will be refined during the Beta.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on May 07, 2018, 06:28:02 AM
SlitherCivilMatrixzation!  :smitten:
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on May 07, 2018, 07:00:56 AM
^heh
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Boggit on May 08, 2018, 02:04:01 AM
I really like the look  of this. :smitten:
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Anguille on May 22, 2018, 04:00:10 PM
Looks great...will follow this closely.  :bd:
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: WallysWorld on July 27, 2018, 10:29:28 AM
Release date set:  "Aggressors: Ancient Rome will be out on August 30th!"

Slitherine forum announcement (http://www.slitherine.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=87017&sid=93836554e442157e6551649d67561d39)  with Twitch session scheduled for August 2nd.

Looks pretty good.

Aggressors: Ancient Rome (http://www.matrixgames.com/products/723/details/Aggressors.Ancient.Rome)

Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on July 27, 2018, 10:56:14 AM
That’s a true release, not an early access release?
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Surtur on July 30, 2018, 05:14:01 AM
Hi guys,

I am currently working as an external producer on the title. Yes, it will be the full release, not early access. The game will have a historical campaign, random world generation and a map editor, so plenty of content to play around with ^^ Having said that, with these types of games there is always so much more that can be added, so expect your share of post release updates.

It truly is a labour of love by the developer from Kubat Software. It is quite unique and it requires you to think differently from most games.

Edit: Please let me know if I can answer any questions. We are also doing a stream later this week to show the game
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on July 30, 2018, 07:51:13 AM
Thanks Surtur, looking forward to this.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Sir Slash on July 30, 2018, 08:45:18 AM
Anxiously awaiting Grog-Opinions.  :coolsmiley:
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on July 30, 2018, 09:04:17 AM
Drop the o...’grogpinions’
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: bbmike on July 30, 2018, 09:29:44 AM
Drop the o...’grogpinions’

That's a lot better than that 'Wot I Think" garbage.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on July 30, 2018, 09:43:41 AM
Thank you. That’s why they got me the GrogYacht last year.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Sir Slash on July 30, 2018, 12:48:47 PM
I drop trousers not 'O's. That's my 'pinion.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on July 30, 2018, 04:15:24 PM
 :-\
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: bbmike on July 30, 2018, 04:18:51 PM
It's ok. Word on the street is he doesn't wear trousers anyway.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Sir Slash on July 30, 2018, 05:37:41 PM
I do wear clean under ware however. My Mama makes me.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: bbmike on July 30, 2018, 06:04:20 PM
Smart lady!  O0
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on July 30, 2018, 07:12:24 PM
Never know when you’ll be in an accident.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Sir Slash on July 30, 2018, 09:04:49 PM
Or at my age, have an accident.  ::)
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Surtur on August 02, 2018, 01:21:33 AM
Good to know I am in suitable company here :)
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: mbar on August 02, 2018, 07:04:38 AM
Release day purchase for me.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 02, 2018, 08:21:38 AM
I fear I will also be purchasing on Day 1. Are there plans on expanding the timeline to the Fall of Rome era, 5th century?
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Steelgrave on August 02, 2018, 10:46:17 AM
I'm with Gus. I think this title has moved up to "Day One Purchase" status with me as well   O0
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Barthheart on August 02, 2018, 10:49:19 AM
Streaming preview today at 2 EDT on Matrix Twitch channel.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 02, 2018, 12:43:16 PM
^Dammit - do they replay those? Suddenly my loins moisten and me NEEDS this game.

And look Steelie has been sucked in! My job is finished here.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Steelgrave on August 02, 2018, 12:49:07 PM
And look Steelie has been sucked in! My job is finished here.

 ;D  O0
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Barthheart on August 02, 2018, 12:54:44 PM
^Dammit - do they replay those? Suddenly my loins moisten and me NEEDS this game.

And look Steelie has been sucked in! My job is finished here.

Not sure... sometimes they save them for later viewing....
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Surtur on August 02, 2018, 03:20:46 PM
Hi guys, the stream I did should be available on Twitch still and I think it will come later to youtube.

Having said that one hour really does not do the game justice. I did not even touch on concepts of hapoiness, loyalty, trade, migration etc. Etc.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 02, 2018, 04:17:29 PM
Thanks Surtur.

Will the game cover the fall of Rome, eventually?
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: jomni on August 02, 2018, 07:11:32 PM
Thanks Surtur.

Will the game cover the fall of Rome, eventually?

Well Rome will fall if you lose.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 02, 2018, 07:25:08 PM
:/
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Surtur on August 03, 2018, 01:56:41 AM
There are some ideas for post-release content. But nothing we can announce at this point.

The stream can be watched here :)
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/292258431## (https://www.twitch.tv/videos/292258431##)
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 03, 2018, 05:43:08 AM
Thanks
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Pete Dero on August 22, 2018, 08:33:18 AM
https://www.wargamer.com/articles/aggressors-ancient-rome-impressions/

Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Boggit on August 24, 2018, 11:11:44 AM
Nice preview. O0 Thanks.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Pete Dero on August 29, 2018, 09:32:49 AM
Release on Steam tomorrow.

Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 29, 2018, 09:34:36 AM
GIGGITY.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Barthheart on August 29, 2018, 11:05:21 AM
GIGGITY.

+  :D
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Sir Slash on August 29, 2018, 12:34:59 PM
Awaiting Grog-Approval Ratings.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Surtur on August 30, 2018, 07:13:55 AM
We are releasing in a little bit :)
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Barthheart on August 30, 2018, 07:25:00 AM
 :D <:-)
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Surtur on August 30, 2018, 07:36:17 AM
Also, I will be doing a stream later today (19:00 BST), so you guys can watch live and ask some questions. The developer will be in the chat as well.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 30, 2018, 07:47:31 AM
How would you rate the depth and complexity of this game? Is it EUIV, CKII, VickyII, something in between? One of the problems I found with EU: Rome was that it was too shallow. It was enjoyable for a bit, but ultimately, there just wasn't that much to do within the game world.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Surtur on August 30, 2018, 08:09:46 AM
I would say something in between. It is easy enough to pick up and play I think. But there are some release nice more in-depth features that when understood correctly, can really enhance the experience.

A couple of examples:

- People may try and flee a city when the enemy approaches or when battles are close by, reducing the population in the city
- Soldiers recruited in cities with loyalty problems are not going to be fully loyal to you themselves
- You will most likely need to trade for resources with other factions, you can even trade for slaves (though selling them will reduce happiness in your country)
- Your armies have a specific army morale, which is not national, but based on the opponent. For example your troops might be happy to take on the hoplites of Epirus, but be scared of the barbarian Celts.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 30, 2018, 08:17:35 AM
Thanks. How individually detailed and unique are the different tribes and nation/states? For instance, will playing the Romans feel like playing the Romans, or do the various groups play out somewhat generically. If I am the Roman player, will my legions eventually be made up of Hastati, Principes and Triarii? Will the Legions develop unique traits, veterancy and perhaps loyalty to a particular leader? Can the Romans develop an advantage due to their military discipline and engineering expertise, etc.? I'm hoping these kinds of things are modeled.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: PanzersEast on August 30, 2018, 08:20:13 AM
JA's review from Out of 8

Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 30, 2018, 08:37:03 AM
I have a nagging feeling I'm going to be disappointed. It just doesn't look like the deep historical classical ancient game I am waiting for... :-\
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 30, 2018, 08:39:23 AM
WAIT A SECOND...I've totally confused this game with Imperator: Rome by Paradox.

I guess the multiple threads with confusing titles is to blame. Sorry...carry on.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Surtur on August 30, 2018, 08:44:43 AM
The game is available now on Slitherine, Steam and GoG :)

Edit: Sorry to have confused you Jarhead
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 30, 2018, 08:50:53 AM
The game is available now on Slitherine, Steam and GoG :)

Edit: Sorry to have confused you Jarhead

Nah...not your fault at all Surtur! Totally on me.

Good luck with the release! I'm sure I'll pick it up. Just want to see a few impressions first.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 30, 2018, 08:59:43 AM
DON’T PANIC
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: solops on August 30, 2018, 12:23:06 PM
Looks like the map area is limited (?) to the immediate Mediterranean area, i.e. no Northern France, northern Germany, England/Ireland, Tigris-Euphrates area. That still leaves a huge area, but it does preclude having the Parthian Wars, the Gallic campaigns or the conquest of Britain.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 30, 2018, 12:31:17 PM
^DLC or expansion perhaps?
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: PanzersEast on August 30, 2018, 12:41:57 PM
^DLC or expansion perhaps?

Or mod, it is very mod friendly.

Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on August 30, 2018, 12:53:54 PM
My guess is the timescale precludes it. It's "Ancient Rome".
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on August 30, 2018, 12:55:41 PM
8 Steam mods so far since release a couple of hours ago.  O0
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 30, 2018, 01:03:19 PM
Where does ancient Rome end? 600 AD? 1453?
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 30, 2018, 01:16:58 PM
Where does ancient Rome end? 600 AD? 1453?

I believe most historians attribute the end of the ancient Roman era with what has commonly been accepted as the collapse of civilization due to the birth of the "disco" music genre and subculture, circa 1971.

(https://r.hswstatic.com/w_907/gif/podcasts/stuffyoushouldknow-podcasts-wp-content-uploads-sites-16-2014-03-disco600x350.jpg)
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 30, 2018, 01:19:49 PM
That would be some awesome dlc.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Sir Slash on August 30, 2018, 01:26:09 PM
That is true. Disco killed Roman Rock-N-Roll and caused The Plague.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: bob48 on August 30, 2018, 01:29:20 PM
I thought video killed the radio star?

Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Sir Slash on August 30, 2018, 01:36:09 PM
That too. But surely you've heard the story about how Brutus Terrio and his Bee Gee conspirators slew the Emperor Elvis when he made his appearance on the floor of Band Stand. It's in every history book.  :coolsmiley:
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on August 30, 2018, 01:47:19 PM
I'm not sure yet how long the campaign lasts. The game theoretically can run 1500 turns, from 500 BC to AD 1000 (or 499 turns yes I know there' s no AD 0 ;) ). But the main campaign starts in 253 BC, if I recall correctly from a few minutes ago (poking around on my Surface Pro 3 at work), with Rome having already consolidated most of the Italian boot and looking to intervene in Sicily. Thus the "Aggressors" of the title.

(Note that "Aggressors" is the name of the game system, this first scenario being "Ancient Rome".)

The game itself is set up rather like Civilization or a Master of Magic inheritor, with the ability to generate random maps and start everyone with no infrastructure and only a couple of mobile units. 6400 hex square map limit at 80 x 80, but 5000 hex square rectangles are possible 100 x 50 (tall or wide).

This suggests to me that the dating system is simply an arbitrary convenience for the campaign setting and general culture of the game.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: PanzersEast on August 30, 2018, 02:22:35 PM
I thought this gave some interesting insight from a Steam review which indicates it has roots in a board game.... which is fine by me.

Quote
This review is actually a Thank you letter to the developer for making this game.
For unbiased reviews skip this one.

I think it was 25 years ago that most of my school holiday time was used to do what I really like. Gaming. But I did not had my first PC yet, so gaming was spending one day in the city to collect all kind of painting materials and paperboards to create the ultimate game myself.
The Civilization boardgame, HeroQuest boardgame and some rare tabletop games I owned served as an example. But mine had a bigger boards, more options, more counters and features, more of everything actually.

As many of you experienced around the end of last decade, the tabletop hobby slowly turned into a PC game hobby and the tabletop boards and dices ended up under a layer of dust.

This year, 2018, spring, I was invited by a Steam friend of me to get involved in an early alpha of a new project called Project Caligula. He didn't know what to expect from it, didn't had much time to look to it anytime soon and so I decided to give it a try.

My initial thoughts were that it has potiential, but it was somewhat unpolished and one major flaw was that is was really looking aged. Some UI and shortkey functionallity was not implemented very well, the use of capitols in tooltip texts, the tooltips itself etc was pretty much not release ready. Some buttons looked like placeholders.

But as I took the first step to experience this new game in development I started to play and before I knew it was very early in the morning while I was writing my first 8 hour impression.

This game is build from the bottom to the top. That's unique. There are major releases that are build from top to bottom. That cause flaws. Major flaws. Most 4x games suffers from this.

The game have a unique boardgame feel over it. That is not a coincidence. Aggressors in his current form has his roots in a homebrew boardgame from the developer himself. What the developer did was bringing the boardgame to live without making it a boardgame on PC and without making it loosing his roots.

To give you an example of what I mean with build from bottom to top.

You have a gameboard that consist of a map. On this map are terrains. Those terrains are placed randomly or fixed on thousands of tiles. Those thousands of tiles all have their own flora and fauna. Animals can move in groups or individually, they can be big or small, there can be a lot of trees on tiles and just some trees, there are birds flying and everything is animated.

Now keep this as an example of how the gameplay works.

A river make sens not only for movement, but for resource flow as well if the source is positioned on the other side of the river. Not only this. Every possible direction to build a bridge have a different model ingame. The detail is simply amazing.

Every step you make in game make sense.
This is not a civ game where you autoselect every settler to start building farms on every tile.
You have to deal with a large amount of details that influence almost all aspects of the game every game state. (mid and end game etc).

New tribes can emerge, new federations and confederations can be signed by you and the AI.

The depth is amazing and the one more turn feeling hits hard with Aggressors.
Everything in game can be generated on the fly and almost everything is open for modification. Just with a simple paint program or text editor, but also with the Aggressors SDK within Visual Studio for scripting to your needs. There is more then a game here, it's actually a complete wargame toolbox.

I expect we will see a lot of detail mods from ancient times in different themes and settings.

If you just want to play the main game, you have 20 tribes you can play with. All have different objectives, locked and unlocked, that give extra historical sense, but you are not forced to follow that path. Otherwise there are many ways to create a map just from scratch in the size and shape you want and a lot of settings to choose from.

Turntimes are accurate even after 200 – 500 turns there is no real difference in waiting time compared to turn one (which is short).

Mid and end game offers enough challenges because of an human like AI that use the same rules as the player and new tribes can emerge, civil war can break out, confederations can be signed.

There is always something to do. It's a game. Use it to your liking in all freedom!
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: solops on August 30, 2018, 04:33:29 PM
^DLC or expansion perhaps?

Or mod, it is very mod friendly.

Maybe...I can see the map size limitation as being a real problem. I wonder if they will expand the available map size? It is a 64-bit program, yes?
And I can see some fantasy mods as real possibilities, too.

I went from "Buy it now" back to sitting on the fence. Have any of you guys actually played it? I trust the Steam reviews about as far as I can shot-put my Suburban.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: PanzersEast on August 30, 2018, 04:55:14 PM
^DLC or expansion perhaps?

Or mod, it is very mod friendly.

Maybe...I can see the map size limitation as being a real problem. I wonder if they will expand the available map size? It is a 64-bit program, yes?
And I can see some fantasy mods as real possibilities, too.

I went from "Buy it now" back to sitting on the fence. Have any of you guys actually played it? I trust the Steam reviews about as far as I can shot-put my Suburban.

I have it loaded up, will report back soon....
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Jarhead0331 on August 30, 2018, 05:06:20 PM
^DLC or expansion perhaps?

Or mod, it is very mod friendly.

Maybe...I can see the map size limitation as being a real problem. I wonder if they will expand the available map size? It is a 64-bit program, yes?
And I can see some fantasy mods as real possibilities, too.

I went from "Buy it now" back to sitting on the fence. Have any of you guys actually played it? I trust the Steam reviews about as far as I can shot-put my Suburban.

I have it loaded up, will report back soon....

Hurry. I'm home from work and loitering with intent.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 30, 2018, 05:06:46 PM
Nice.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on August 30, 2018, 05:20:57 PM
I just got home, and I'm dl-ing it to the home computer. But I've got a number of other (hopefully small) updates to zip through, too, one of them being R2TW ironically. ;)

I'll post here when I'm up, and Steam users who have friended me (Sabreman) can ping me to watch over my shoulder, which is like live-streaming on Youtube but..... actually, I think Steam allows live-streaming now, too.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on August 30, 2018, 05:54:35 PM
Okay, I'm in-game live now, which can be easily found from my Steam user page here: https://steamcommunity.com/id/mikonesesaga

Just click the "watch game" button under the snapshot window in the upper right corner.

I'm unsure if the microphone is working, but people should be able to send messages by typing through Steam chat.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on August 30, 2018, 06:03:44 PM
Okay, actually broadcasting (with working mic now).
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: steve58 on August 30, 2018, 06:13:15 PM
So...tiles, not hexes?
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on August 30, 2018, 08:06:06 PM
Yes, not hexes.

Tiles, oddly, are circular within the squares. The square arrangement, as you know, allows a little more map exploitation by moving diagonally which, as far as I can tell, costs the same movement rate (not a hypotenuse of the movement). Not a problem, just a detail.

Just finished broadcast. It's... eh. I'll probably like it better when the random-map generator is fixed. It's far from a bad game, but it's a Civy game. Some nice touches here and there. I like Civ games, so, y'know.

Considering that I've played it for 2 hours, it's mine now in any case!  ::) I feel pretty sure it's a keeper, but I have a lot of other games to play already.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 30, 2018, 08:18:11 PM
What are some of the nice touches you like?
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: CJReich46 on August 30, 2018, 09:04:49 PM
I'm intrigued. The spec requirements are low for this one.

Which *sigh* I might be getting this one. But will be patient.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on August 31, 2018, 07:16:44 AM
What are some of the nice touches you like?

Nothing that I'd say is decisive (yet). I'll give an example.

Last night, toward the end of my play, I ran across a really nice touch that the game did, which I didn't recall seeing in any other 4x Civ/MoMish game I had played before. It was a practical improvement in how something worked, not just window dressing, and I truly appreciated it, and I was impressed the designers thought of it.

I have no idea this morning what it was. None. Zero. The most I can remember is that I ran across it around 9pm near the end of my play with the game, and what I said in the prior paragraph. I can't even tell you where it was 'in the game' that I saw it. (Map operation, research, diplomacy, no idea.)

(Steam apparently doesn't save livestreams, so I can't go back now and look for it either. Note to self, use YT broadcast next time.  :buck2: )

I'm legitimately sorry I can't remember what that touch was, but it exemplifies the game for me so far. Considering that TWO GUYS are making this game, it's very good. Whatever happened with the random-gen failing, I hope gets fixed, but that was the only bug I ran across in two hours of play. It doesn't really do anything yet that makes it stand out for me, though.

That's a very meh review, I realize, based on less than 2 hours of actual gameplay. But I would consider refunding, not because it's a bad game, which it isn't at all, but because I've got a bunch of other games to play and I'd rather save that money for something else.

Put another way, playing this game didn't make me want to play more of it this weekend, so much as it made me want to see where the developer of Genesia (long ago in the Amiga age!) has gotten with his remake Genesia Legacy: Ultimate Domain. It's a much smaller scale game, but I can name a number of interesting things in it off the top of my head despite having played only 47 minutes (as I just checked -- I thought it was more like 2 or 3 hours.)
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Rayfer on August 31, 2018, 09:11:45 AM
Today's "Flare Path" from the RPS site, about half way down the article, covers some of the more interesting aspects of the game. 
https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2018/08/31/the-flare-path-infinite-patience/
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 31, 2018, 03:12:21 PM
^Thanks for posting that Rayfer, Flare Path seemed to enjoy it.

Pratt your last post has left me befuddled :/
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: bbmike on August 31, 2018, 03:19:23 PM
^Thanks for posting that Rayfer, Flare Path seemed to enjoy it.

Pratt your last post has left me befuddled yet again :/

ftfy  :P
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on August 31, 2018, 04:01:07 PM
^Yes that, sorry  8)
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: jomni on August 31, 2018, 04:19:54 PM
I think the dev described it as a medium ground between Civ and EU if I'm not mistaken.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Lowenstaat on September 01, 2018, 07:42:32 PM
I'm just starting to dig into this one. It does remind me of Civ a bit, but it also plays like a modernized, fleshed out version of Legions: Conquest and Diplomacy in the Ancient World (Mindscape) from the mid 1990s.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on September 02, 2018, 10:35:06 AM
I did discover that the inability to generate a random map seems connected with trying to play it in 720p resolution. When I switched to 1080p, it didn't have any problem generating a map.

I put another several hours into it yesterday, along that line. (Tried to save it as a live YT broadcast for future reference, but the signal died without telling me about 5 minutes in.  :buck2: ) Still makes me want to look into the current state of Genosia more, but it's fine. Don't believe the estimate for completing a road, though -- the code isn't actually programed to calculate that. ;)

The supply-source limitations in the early game are interesting if just a tad hacky. I started with a "nomad" which is the basic unit, not terrible at combat, and able to build a settlement but that's all. (All units can build settlements in this game, btw, unless I misunderstood the rules, but the nomad and settler are better at it.) The nomad had both the "forager" and... um, rats I forget the other ability, pioneer maybe. Their descriptions sounded exactly the same for effect in different wording, so I couldn't figure out why there were two abilities: basically the unit doesn't take damage being outside supply. Okay, great, makes sense for nomads. I find a good settlement spot, the TEN THOUSAND NOMADS (unit sizes are weird in this game) found a settlement, and things move along. I create a settler (which sets off riots in my settlement, damaging it, because the settlers need TEN THOUSAND PEOPLE leaving over barely a few hundred at that point to regrow the settlement), and it doesn't have those abilities. This worries me, but turns out, nah, it has them but just doesn't say so. Okay.

Then I create a nomad to go scouting (once my settlement has bred back up to over ten thousand people), and I send it out to go look around because it can take care of itself better than the settler army which has no offense (but which can build roads and fields and clear woods to make fields later, etc., which is what I've been doing with it.)

The nomad army gets four squares north off past a lake into the woods and through a mountain pass, and starts to die. Because it's out of supply now.

...what? I thought nomads had those two (apparently equal) abilities to live off the land?! I happen to notice now that the two markers for those abilities are missing. They were given to the first nomad unit by the game to keep it alive until it founded a settlement. They aren't inherent abilities for nomads.

The ability to live off the land without dying, isn't an inherent ability for a nomad unit.

No doubt this is for game balancing. But still.  ::)

I did enjoy the extra 3 hours I put into the game yesterday. I don't feel I've gotten my money out of it yet, but I can see that's possible at least.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on September 02, 2018, 10:48:54 AM
Will you continue on?
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on September 02, 2018, 12:22:14 PM
Probably yes. But lots of other shiny things to do.  O:-)

Edited to add: as far as the campaign goes, I'm not sure I have any interest in it, compared to, let's say, Rome 2 TW, or the upcoming Paradox RomeEU sequel/remake/update.

But the random map generator retains its interest for me.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on September 02, 2018, 12:26:05 PM
I've read on Steam that the AI is pretty good - maybe sticking around for the campaign would be worth your while.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Rayfer on September 02, 2018, 01:32:24 PM
I did discover that the inability to generate a random map seems connected with trying to play it in 720p resolution. When I switched to 1080p, it didn't have any problem generating a map.

I put another several hours into it yesterday, along that line. (Tried to save it as a live YT broadcast for future reference, but the signal died without telling me about 5 minutes in.  :buck2: ) Still makes me want to look into the current state of Genosia more, but it's fine. Don't believe the estimate for completing a road, though -- the code isn't actually programed to calculate that. ;)

The supply-source limitations in the early game are interesting if just a tad hacky. I started with a "nomad" which is the basic unit, not terrible at combat, and able to build a settlement but that's all. (All units can build settlements in this game, btw, unless I misunderstood the rules, but the nomad and settler are better at it.) The nomad had both the "forager" and... um, rats I forget the other ability, pioneer maybe. Their descriptions sounded exactly the same for effect in different wording, so I couldn't figure out why there were two abilities: basically the unit doesn't take damage being outside supply. Okay, great, makes sense for nomads. I find a good settlement spot, the TEN THOUSAND NOMADS (unit sizes are weird in this game) found a settlement, and things move along. I create a settler (which sets off riots in my settlement, damaging it, because the settlers need TEN THOUSAND PEOPLE leaving over barely a few hundred at that point to regrow the settlement), and it doesn't have those abilities. This worries me, but turns out, nah, it has them but just doesn't say so. Okay.

Then I create a nomad to go scouting (once my settlement has bred back up to over ten thousand people), and I send it out to go look around because it can take care of itself better than the settler army which has no offense (but which can build roads and fields and clear woods to make fields later, etc., which is what I've been doing with it.)

The nomad army gets four squares north off past a lake into the woods and through a mountain pass, and starts to die. Because it's out of supply now.

...what? I thought nomads had those two (apparently equal) abilities to live off the land?! I happen to notice now that the two markers for those abilities are missing. They were given to the first nomad unit by the game to keep it alive until it founded a settlement. They aren't inherent abilities for nomads.

The ability to live off the land without dying, isn't an inherent ability for a nomad unit.

No doubt this is for game balancing. But still.  ::)

I did enjoy the extra 3 hours I put into the game yesterday. I don't feel I've gotten my money out of it yet, but I can see that's possible at least.

JP...I noticed the same thing with the early Nomads.  But it made sense after I thought about it.  Your starting Nomads had no settlement or farms of any sort and had no choice but to learn to survive by living off the land. But once you made a settlement with surrounding farms and enough population to made a Nomad unit, it would have learned to live off the farms and not by foraging the land.  So that it started to starve when 3-4 hexes (squares) from the settlement means it was away from its food source for 3-4 years and without the foraging skills of the initial units.  That's my spin on it...not sure at all if that's the logic behind the developers design. I like the game more with the random map generation and sandbox approach rather than the campaign. Although my only time with the campaign has been the basic and advanced tutorial, which is scripted.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on September 02, 2018, 01:35:03 PM
Are the tutorials effective?
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Rayfer on September 02, 2018, 02:03:25 PM
Are the tutorials effective?

I thought so...they walk you through the various game systems and take quite awhile to finish.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Anguille on September 03, 2018, 02:21:46 AM
Played only the tutorials so far and i think they were well done. I have yet to play the full campaign (still on large campaign in Oriental Empires).

As Jason said though, having played the tutorial of Rome Total War 2 one week ago and with the upcoming game by Paradox, i am not sure what place this game can have. I will have to play one campaign through before i can answer that.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on September 03, 2018, 07:17:38 PM
^^ It does have the random map gen for.... well, sort-of-ancient-Mediterraneanishness. The others don't.

Rayfer,

Uh, no, I don't buy that a town would spend two years training NOMADS to be NOMADS and then the NOMADS would spend three or four years moving away from the town, only for the NOMADS to never learn to live off the land like you would expect from something called NOMADS which, by the way, the game itself agreed that NOMADS can do back when that was convenient.  ::)

This also, not incidentally, limits the usefulness for the unit in being able to expand into potentially hostile territory. Which I'm sure was part of the balance design, since otherwise the player could spam nomads out to build settlements in hostile territory -- but the settlements would be vulnerable for many game turns anyway, unless an armed force was sent to garrison them better, and urgh my head is spinning with the quantum 4d layers of design justifications.  :buck2:

Nomads should just be "raiders" no more able to build settlements than anyone else (since all units can technically build settlements) but able to live off the land like settlers. Or better yet, let Nomads be able to build settlements in the generally restricted sense all other non-settler units can currently do, and eliminate that ability from all (or most) other combat units. Instead of other "mobile units" also being able to "settle", even in only a limited way, let the "fortify" command grant unit supply in the nearby area, perhaps expanded with tech and/or time spent in the area, but no other town capabilities: that would make a lot of sense for a true fortify capability. The fort should grant better defense than, let's say, a level 2 town (and maybe better with tech and/or over time), and should be map permanent like a settlement, with damage and a risk of destruction if it's overrun but also the possibility of being captured, repaired, and re-used. Like, y'know, forts.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Nefaro on September 03, 2018, 10:12:09 PM
That is true. Disco killed Roman Rock-N-Roll and caused The Plague.

Pfff!

The only disco that matters is "Evil Disco"!  ~~  >:D ~~>



Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: solops on November 05, 2018, 05:16:36 PM
Would someone who has played recently please comment on how the game is after the last two recent patches?
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on November 05, 2018, 06:12:42 PM
Would someone who has played recently please comment on how the game is after the last two recent patches?

I'll not be able to tonight, but I'll try to check on it tomorrow.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: MOS:96B2P on November 06, 2018, 01:03:42 PM
This looks kind of interesting.  I think I'll go over to STEAM and read up on it.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: solops on December 08, 2018, 03:16:18 PM
I just finished up the tutorial and I am looking forward to the campaign. The random map generator would seem to be a treasure trove. I am hoping someone will mod in elves, orcs, etc. With the map generator this game could have legs that won't quit. This could be a really inventive way to get unlimited fantasy empire building fixes.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Steelgrave on December 08, 2018, 03:32:35 PM
^I like how you think!!!   :bd: :bd: :bd:
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: airboy on December 09, 2018, 11:17:13 AM
I've got it.  When I finish up my grading I'll start playing this and PanzerKreig.  I'll eventually have detailed reviews of both published.  But you know me, I never write a review without at least 30 hours of gameplay.  But since I'll be retired in a couple of weeks, that should be more easily accomplished.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: solops on December 09, 2018, 01:52:48 PM
As I work into my first game I find it enjoyable and well paced. The UI can be a trial and is NOT intuitive in a couple of places....needs work. I have not gotten far enough to gauge how deep it is as I am still learning the game systems. I can see that the diplomacy needs some work as there are too many interactions with nations improbably far off. I have not (yet) found much of a tactical layer, but the operational/strategic layer is feeling better than the Total War systems. If they can clean up the UI it would help. There is nothing WRONG with it, it is just a bit kludgy and un-intuitive. I wonder how many sub-optimal design decisions were made to avoid possible lawsuits over copying stuff. Seems a stretch to me. Anyway, the game is a "plus" so far.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: solops on December 09, 2018, 02:03:49 PM
I think the dev described it as a medium ground between Civ and EU if I'm not mistaken.

Seems a bit more Civ than EU, but much more than simple Civ. A lot less building and more ops than Civ....hence the "Aggressors" in the title. I am still figuring all of this out.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: solops on December 11, 2018, 10:37:32 AM
Now that I have played 8+ hours I have to say that I think this is a seriously underrated game. I am an ancient world nut and have, literally, dozens of books on the ancient Med, including works by Plutarch, Thucydides, Herodotus, Caesar, etc. I think this is a great "overview" level game that dips into the operational level.There is not really anything new, but there really does not need to be to make a good game. These guys seem to have taken all of the good bits from lots of other games and put them together quite well. The game seems to get better the longer I play and the deeper into the tech tree I go. I am still learning the systems.

Things I do not like:
Individual units fight -  no stack or combined arms type combat. given the scale, this is not unreasonable, but...

UI - better than I thought, once I got used to it, but still a bit cumbersome in a very few places. Lacks easily available feedback in a few things.

Diplomacy - Deep in many ways, but allows diplomacy too early to nations too far separated. Has nice
touches like time lag.

At the moment (180 BC) I am fighting Carthage in the Central Med and Egypt in Greece. Resource constraints are severe problems, mainly lumber and metals. Coal supplies are barely sufficient. I cannot wait to restart and do some things over and I really cannot wait to start a BIG, slow random map game. If we ever get a fantasy unit set, this may become my main game. So says solops, in the early learning days of a new game (always the best of times....familiarity reveals warts).
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: airboy on April 12, 2019, 10:31:49 AM
I've read the 225 page manual.  Then I started playing yesterday.  I'm hooked.

This is two big games in one package.

Game 1: A "civ type game" where you start with a bunch of other civilizations in either a random world or the Med.  You can adjust almost everything in the game.  If you don't like something, the code itself can be adjusted very easily.  This game has most of the regular trappings of 4x games (research, exploration, foreign relations, etc....) but works much better than almost everything I've seen.  The military side of the AI is extremely aggressive to the point of launching dangerous amphibious attacks both on you and on other AI opponents.

Game 2: You play in the Med around 250 BC.  You can play a "big power": Carthage, Rome, Egypt, Athens, etc..... or a teeny-tiny power (a German tribe) or anything in-between. 

I think the reception of the game was harmed by a couple of things.
1] There are so many 4x games.
2] This one is complex.  You have to carefully manage your resources and there are a dozen of them.  What you can do is highly limited by your resources.
3] The "default game" is to drop you into an advanced strategic situation (Ancient Med) with vast power differences between the sides.  Even starting as Rome leaves you with a lot of tough initial problems.

So far, the game has been awesome!  I initially started in the advanced world - and decided I did not really understand the rule concepts.  I dropped back into random world and a low level (barbarian) starting point to grasp the rules setting.  That game alone is much better from a military wargame 4x perspective than most any 4x game I've played in a long, long time.  The combat AI is just a lot better than most 4x games and the game does allow combat - unlike the CIV games which throw so many obstacles in your path that it is hard to wage war.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: uncajerf on April 23, 2019, 09:39:58 AM
Hi, All!

Nice to find this site I hadn't heard of before (shame on me, I know)! I happen to have been on the beta team for Aggressors, and can add my $.02 to airboy's and solop's  observations -- actually, they've pretty much said it all! :)

If any of you are still on the fence, give Aggressors a go; it's well-supported (still), and is pretty much endlessly customisable. As for future, well... ;)

J
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: JasonPratt on April 23, 2019, 01:45:16 PM
Welcome to the forum! -- glad to see a beta tester on the game!  O0


AB, I've been thinking about getting back into the game again now that there has been time to iron out things.

Relatedly, would anyone like to set up a Groghead multiplayer match? (......caveat, I haven't checked yet if mp is a thing for this game...)
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on April 23, 2019, 04:35:55 PM
Don’t tempt me Pratt! (Set to the tune of Don’t Fence Me In)
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: uncajerf on April 23, 2019, 06:38:54 PM
Welcome to the forum! -- glad to see a beta tester on the game!  O0

Thanx! :)
Quote
AB, I've been thinking about getting back into the game again now that there has been time to iron out things.

Relatedly, would anyone like to set up a Groghead multiplayer match? (......caveat, I haven't checked yet if mp is a thing for this game...)

Unfortunately not (yet...?). :/

J
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: uncajerf on April 25, 2019, 02:17:51 PM
Aggressors: Ancient Rome 34 % off @ GoG.com! :)

J
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: al_infierno on April 25, 2019, 02:45:03 PM
I was feeling pretty lukewarm about this but now I'm interested.  I was going to just wait for FoG: Empires, but this looks like it's actually pretty different.

Also -- where are you seeing the GoG discount?

EDIT - Argh, I'm an idiot.  I thought this thread was about that new Imperator game.  THIS game looks worth my while!
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Gusington on April 25, 2019, 04:28:34 PM
I almost bought Aggressors last night at that sale price. Held off. It is still 34% off at GOG...
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: airboy on July 02, 2019, 10:06:31 AM
I have written a very detailed, seven page review with screenshots based on 117 hours of play.  The review includes multiple strategy suggestions.

See: https://averysgameblog.wordpress.com/2019/07/02/aggressors-ancient-rome-a-very-detailed-review/
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Anguille on July 02, 2019, 01:07:04 PM
I have written a very detailed, seven page review with screenshots based on 117 hours of play.  The review includes multiple strategy suggestions.

See: https://averysgameblog.wordpress.com/2019/07/02/aggressors-ancient-rome-a-very-detailed-review/
Impressive....and cool. Thanks!
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: -budd- on July 02, 2019, 01:59:27 PM
I have written a very detailed, seven page review with screenshots based on 117 hours of play.  The review includes multiple strategy suggestions.

See: https://averysgameblog.wordpress.com/2019/07/02/aggressors-ancient-rome-a-very-detailed-review/
Well done, very in depth. I've got my Matrix coupon in my pocket I'll be picking up this game and FOG Empires next week. That's why I'm mostly sitting out the steam sale.
Thanks for the info.
Title: Re: Aggressors: Ancient Rome
Post by: Steelgrave on July 02, 2019, 05:05:31 PM
I have written a very detailed, seven page review with screenshots based on 117 hours of play.  The review includes multiple strategy suggestions.

See: https://averysgameblog.wordpress.com/2019/07/02/aggressors-ancient-rome-a-very-detailed-review/

You're the man, Airboy. Great job!