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Digital Gaming => Computer Wargaming => Topic started by: JudgeDredd on June 25, 2014, 11:46:17 PM

Title: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on June 25, 2014, 11:46:17 PM
I couldn't resist.

So I've been watching the video tutorials, and I came across the one to start a new game...I had to lol at the options available. Note how they differ somewhat (tutorial video capture on the left) from the actual game options (on the right)  :P

At least they left the space to fit the others in

(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q499/wmar1967/Misc/Snap1_zps7c0dc010.jpg)

I have no idea at the moment what the internet options gives you yet, I have to be honest   ???

I should leave this post by pointing out that I LOVE the look of this game. It has always really appealed to me
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: spelk on June 26, 2014, 12:47:58 AM
So the AI opponent was removed? Or is planned in the future?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on June 26, 2014, 01:07:41 AM
So the AI opponent was removed? Or is planned in the future?
It's still planned for the future afaik
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: jomni on June 26, 2014, 01:44:25 AM
I thought Internet was broken when it was first launched.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: undercovergeek on June 26, 2014, 01:48:17 AM
So the AI opponent was removed? Or is planned in the future?
It's still planned for the future afaik

Somewhere a fairy just died
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on June 26, 2014, 02:08:27 AM
I thought Internet was broken when it was first launched.
I never knew of the internet method and don't know what it is or how it was/is played.

Netplay was broken on launch.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on June 26, 2014, 02:17:15 AM
So the AI opponent was removed? Or is planned in the future?
It's still planned for the future afaik

Somewhere a fairy just died
Really?

I believe it is - though I think it'll be a mountain of a task to make it remotely challenging
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Ian C on June 26, 2014, 02:19:51 AM
I couldn't resist.

So I've been watching the video tutorials, and I came across the one to start a new game...I had to lol at the options available. Note how they differ somewhat (tutorial video capture on the left) from the actual game options (on the right)  :P

At least they left the space to fit the others in

(http://i1160.photobucket.com/albums/q499/wmar1967/Misc/Snap1_zps7c0dc010.jpg)

I have no idea at the moment what the internet options gives you yet, I have to be honest   ???

I should leave this post by pointing out that I LOVE the look of this game. It has always really appealed to me

So, without wanting to sound negative, if there's no AI, what's the difference between the game as it stands and a boardgame simulator like Vassal?

http://www.vassalengine.org/

Boardgame Modules: http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Category:Modules

Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on June 26, 2014, 02:21:20 AM
Well Vassal, as you know, doesn't have any rules behind it. This does.

That's just about all I got  :buck2:
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: undercovergeek on June 26, 2014, 02:54:37 AM
So the AI opponent was removed? Or is planned in the future?
It's still planned for the future afaik

Somewhere a fairy just died


Really?

I believe it is - though I think it'll be a mountain of a task to make it remotely challenging

If you consider it's been out seven/eight months and even the basic head to head game doesn't work...... that's no AI at all I think a fully working, fully challenging AI is next to impossible

If I'm head of marketing I HAVE to say we are working on one but then go home with my head in my hands and think fkkkkkkkk!
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on June 26, 2014, 03:17:44 AM
lol - granted

I am hopeful though of at least an AI. Challenge is another matter and not a huge issue for me because as many games as I have, I suck at them all!
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 26, 2014, 03:49:28 AM
Personally I think adding an ai will come down to a couple of things....

1). How long and how much effort it takes to solve all existing issues

2). How many people bought the game and how much future sales they can get from it?  I suspect but have no idea that sales and excitement were less than anticipated.  Don't know how long they can continue to pay the developer if it is not making money, unless it really is doing well.  With the lack of talk and discussions on it, hard to believe that is the case

3). Since the basics of the game seemed pretty broken, it does leave a lot to be desired some kind of complex ai will be successfully implemented.  I would think that would be the hardest part of the game, but who knows.

In the end I do hope it all turns out great since I own it, but I have very low expectations at this point. 
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: bbmike on June 26, 2014, 04:30:23 AM
So, without wanting to sound negative, if there's no AI, what's the difference between the game as it stands and a boardgame simulator like Vassal?

http://www.vassalengine.org/

Boardgame Modules: http://www.vassalengine.org/wiki/Category:Modules
Well Vassal, as you know, doesn't have any rules behind it. This does.

That's just about all I got  :buck2:

I really wish more boardgame companies would do this. I (for various reasons) won't play a boardgame anymore but if they were available as a PC game 'set' like WiF is right now (lower price of course) I'd probably be broke.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on June 26, 2014, 04:46:21 AM
I thought Internet was broken when it was first launched.
I never knew of the internet method and don't know what it is or how it was/is played.

Netplay was broken on launch.

The "Internet" option is the NetPlay option....if you click the help button below the options list, it explains what each does.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on June 26, 2014, 04:48:45 AM
lol - of course it is!!  :idiot2: What was I thinking...for some reason I thought I had seen a Netplay option!  :uglystupid2:
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Pete Dero on February 15, 2015, 02:07:15 AM
They just released a new patch :  http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1603/..World.in.Flames.Updated.to.V1.3.3.0

A new version of World In Flames is now available. The patch brings new bug fixes and increases the stability of the game, included some multiplayer issues.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on February 15, 2015, 06:15:33 AM
They just released a new patch :  http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1603/..World.in.Flames.Updated.to.V1.3.3.0

A new version of World In Flames is now available. The patch brings new bug fixes and increases the stability of the game, included some multiplayer issues.

Glad their still patching, but just not sure if and when I'll ever go back to it....kind of interesting item in the patch notes....not sure what that really means and whether they are slowly working on the AI stuff as well.

For AI Opponent
• Changed some of the data for the AI Opponent as to which hexes in the USSR belong to which Land Regions. Now the Murmansk to Leningrad rail line is completely in the land regions Murmansk and Leningrad. The Voronezh land region has gained one hex from the Moscow land region and 4 hexes from the Stalingrad land region. These changes correct data entry errors made using out-of-date definitions of which hexes belong to which land regions.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: magnus on February 15, 2015, 09:22:30 AM
 I saw the blurb about the AI opponent and was interested also.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 02, 2015, 11:00:20 AM
Not really meaning to pile on, but as I looked in the game forum for the first time in a long time, came across the following state of the game post from June 2015.  Really astonished me on some of the stats shared, it is amazing how this game was ever released and how nobody knew how bad it was before having customers spend $100 on it and to the best of my knowledge never giving the paying customers the option for refund.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3878065

- game was released roughly two years ago
- almost immediately after release it was acknowledged to be a mess, but would be fixed promptly
- since the release, they have corrected over 3300 bugs...wow...how not caught in testing, no idea
- they still estimate over 400 known bugs to be fixed

To me this seems like a death march and not sure how this will ever get fully stable....then on top of that, they still talk about adding an ai....surprised they haven't just given up.  The game is so big, not sure how anyone will be confident all issues resolved....on top of that, by the time fully corrected, I wonder what compatibility issues they will have with Windows 2020 by the time fully ready:)

From a cost and hype perspective, easily the most disappointing game for me, and that comes from a guy who carelessly throws money away all the time:)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: undercovergeek on December 02, 2015, 11:25:06 AM
i suspect this may be like Fawlty Towers - 'dont mention the AI'

i think behind closed doors noooooooooooooone is working on the AI and theyre hoping it will all go away
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 02, 2015, 11:49:33 AM
I Certainly have little faith for an ai:)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Tuna on December 02, 2015, 12:15:19 PM
shhh it's a 'premium' game!  :crazy2:
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 02, 2015, 12:16:40 PM
shhh it's a 'premium' game!  :crazy2:

Yep, their use of that term during the promotion of the game did not help either.....
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Asid on December 02, 2015, 01:31:41 PM
 :idiot2:
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Zulu1966 on December 02, 2015, 01:40:16 PM
Not really meaning to pile on, but as I looked in the game forum for the first time in a long time, came across the following state of the game post from June 2015.  Really astonished me on some of the stats shared, it is amazing how this game was ever released and how nobody knew how bad it was before having customers spend $100 on it and to the best of my knowledge never giving the paying customers the option for refund.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3878065

- game was released roughly two years ago
- almost immediately after release it was acknowledged to be a mess, but would be fixed promptly
- since the release, they have corrected over 3300 bugs...wow...how not caught in testing, no idea
- they still estimate over 400 known bugs to be fixed

To me this seems like a death march and not sure how this will ever get fully stable....then on top of that, they still talk about adding an ai....surprised they haven't just given up.  The game is so big, not sure how anyone will be confident all issues resolved....on top of that, by the time fully corrected, I wonder what compatibility issues they will have with Windows 2020 by the time fully ready:)

From a cost and hype perspective, easily the most disappointing game for me, and that comes from a guy who carelessly throws money away all the time:)

Yep. Big waste of money for me and Matrix went down a lot in my estimation. Its was the knowingly selling it bit.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Rayfer on December 02, 2015, 02:01:45 PM
The good news is you can pick it up for only $69.99....30% off....during the holiday sale!
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 02, 2015, 02:08:14 PM
The good news is you can pick it up for only $69.99....30% off....during the holiday sale!

I take responsibility for my own initial purchase, although I thought it was in much better position...it does boggle my mind how they are continuing to sell and people buy knowing that 400 issues still exist....
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: KyzBP on December 02, 2015, 02:34:34 PM
The good news is you can pick it up for only $69.99....30% off....during the holiday sale!

I take responsibility for my own initial purchase, although I thought it was in much better position...it does boggle my mind how they are continuing to sell and people buy knowing that 400 issues still exist....

Is it still being worked on/supported? 
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 02, 2015, 02:36:03 PM
The good news is you can pick it up for only $69.99....30% off....during the holiday sale!

I take responsibility for my own initial purchase, although I thought it was in much better position...it does boggle my mind how they are continuing to sell and people buy knowing that 400 issues still exist....

Is it still being worked on/supported?

Yep, they still are doing patches to their credit...
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on December 02, 2015, 03:04:59 PM
I bought it second hand from a disgruntled purchaser.

I knew it was broken.

However, like most others, I'm unlikely to actually start a game because I don't know how far I'd get before I encountered something that said "NO....no more gaming for you". As far as I'm aware, there aren't any bugs like that - but who knows? Who's played long enough and who's played all the different permutations to know that bug isn't out there.

I like the graphics look (although I'm not a fan of the interface) and I like how the mechanics of the game work with the various phases.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Asid on December 02, 2015, 03:13:32 PM
You need a lot of screen real estate.

Has anyone here actually played a game to completion? Has anyone here played multilayer?

Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 02, 2015, 03:17:15 PM
I think at one point they admitted that even during play testing nobody completed the long version of the game....just leaves open the concern that Jd said...very likely more issues to be found when you get there.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: smittyohio on December 02, 2015, 05:08:23 PM
Only Matrix purchase I've ever regretted, and I've bought waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many.   I've bought many that I haven't played much, but I admire the work done on them and just need to put more effort into them.   It's been 2 years and they still can't get NetPlay working.  The few people actually playing are either playing solitaire or with crazy workarounds for multiplayer.  By thread activity, the game should be off their main page, and it certainly shouldn't still be $100.

The only thing I admire about MWiF is the (seemingly futile) effort of the lone developer.     
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: TacticalWargames on December 03, 2015, 01:57:14 AM
Sure I read when an AI is done you have to pay for it..
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Zulu1966 on December 03, 2015, 02:02:09 AM
Only Matrix purchase I've ever regretted, and I've bought waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many.   I've bought many that I haven't played much, but I admire the work done on them and just need to put more effort into them.   It's been 2 years and they still can't get NetPlay working.  The few people actually playing are either playing solitaire or with crazy workarounds for multiplayer.  By thread activity, the game should be off their main page, and it certainly shouldn't still be $100.

The only thing I admire about MWiF is the (seemingly futile) effort of the lone developer.   

Yes - you have to admire his dedication - but I am wondering if by now he isn't stuck in his own version of hell and would rather just end it - though perhaps honour prevents him from doing so.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 03, 2015, 02:14:56 AM
Only Matrix purchase I've ever regretted, and I've bought waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many.   I've bought many that I haven't played much, but I admire the work done on them and just need to put more effort into them.   It's been 2 years and they still can't get NetPlay working.  The few people actually playing are either playing solitaire or with crazy workarounds for multiplayer.  By thread activity, the game should be off their main page, and it certainly shouldn't still be $100.

The only thing I admire about MWiF is the (seemingly futile) effort of the lone developer.   

Yes - you have to admire his dedication - but I am wondering if by now he isn't stuck in his own version of hell and would rather just end it - though perhaps honour prevents him from doing so.

I imagine when you have put so much of your work into it and it is a passion, tough to throw in the towel, especially if he does for a hobby.  really nothing for him to lose since they keep on selling any way besides sleep:)

I do wonder if he truly believes the game can be reasonably error free some day....
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Staggerwing on December 03, 2015, 04:34:53 AM
I think it's a matter of resources. With a gifted coder working away for years already Matrix may have thought that they could get another steady revenue monster like WITP with little to no investment of their own besides PR. Instead they actually got a complicated monster that was entirely subject to it's original creator's coding personality. I'm thinking that once some of their own coders took a look and reported back the prospect of adding more people who would then basically have to learn the whole thing before being able to add anything became less than financially feasible.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 03, 2015, 04:52:23 AM
Just out of curiosity, checked the first discussions abut this game was in 2004 and that post indicated matrix announced the start of the game in October 2003.  11-12 year development cycle (and far from done) seems like it could hardly be a good return on investment for any software, especially with all the technology and innovation changes over that time period.  Guessing they have very friendly agreement in place with this developer:)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on December 03, 2015, 05:57:09 AM
Hence the mahoosive price tag for a broken game

I still think it looks great and I still like the impulses. I just wish I had faith it would ever be a) fixed b) playable and, more importantly for me c) a reasonable AI

But I honestly suspect all those are far reaching.

Also - regarding it's price (and current price) - you could very well argue there's not enough working game there to justify even the sale price - but Matrix hands are tied. They couldn't possibly (even if they wanted) put the price down. That is evident from their refusal to charge their normal discounted price for a non physical version.


All they can really do is sell it as a broken game with the "Buyer Beware" tag. That way they can sell it for what they need to sell it for, not upset the community AND not have to pull selling it.

I love(d) Matrix - but honestly - the ball was dropped massively on this one - and still is.

I am buying an AI module for it though when (if) one ever gets released - though if they think I'll be paying anything near what they charged for this, they would be sorely mistaken.  :knuppel2:
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: undercovergeek on December 03, 2015, 06:04:30 AM
does it have a buyer beware tag though or is it sat on the top shelf as one of their premier games

and the price cannot drop also until all those shiny manuals have been paid for
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 03, 2015, 06:11:43 AM
They do have a link to the state of the game post on their web site....so that is a start.  I think most new people should be aware of its state, people I feel bad the most are the people who pre ordered or bought shortly after not knowing we were 4000 bugs away from being stable.  Really thought matrix should have at the time offered refunds to those who wanted them.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 03, 2015, 06:19:36 AM
Hence the mahoosive price tag for a broken game

I still think it looks great and I still like the impulses. I just wish I had faith it would ever be a) fixed b) playable and, more importantly for me c) a reasonable AI

But I honestly suspect all those are far reaching.

Also - regarding it's price (and current price) - you could very well argue there's not enough working game there to justify even the sale price - but Matrix hands are tied. They couldn't possibly (even if they wanted) put the price down. That is evident from their refusal to charge their normal discounted price for a non physical version.

  • They can't pull it from their store saying it's not a working game yet
  • They can't reduce the price too much because of what the community played for a considerably more broken game than it is now

All they can really do is sell it as a broken game with the "Buyer Beware" tag. That way they can sell it for what they need to sell it for, not upset the community AND not have to pull selling it.

I love(d) Matrix - but honestly - the ball was dropped massively on this one - and still is.

I am buying an AI module for it though when (if) one ever gets released - though if they think I'll be paying anything near what they charged for this, they would be sorely mistaken.  :knuppel2:

Would love an ai, but I have to imagine implementing a monster ai would be even more complicated then implementing the rules and other gaming guts.....really have no hope it will ever be done and may not even be operational on modern operating systems by the time it is:)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: BigBlueFleet on December 03, 2015, 10:15:59 AM


Would love an ai, but I have to imagine implementing a monster ai would be even more complicated then implementing the rules and other gaming guts.....really have no hope it will ever be done and may not even be operational on modern operating systems by the time it is:)

I'd be surprised if a competent or even bad AI  was ever released for this game. Too many times the euphoria of release has swept me along like a rip tide and I made a regrettable purchase.  The counters are gorgeous (and almost sucked me in) but IMO the map and interface look like anything but a premium game. For years I've entertained myself against poor AIs by having my own house rules so I can understand people that love MWIF solo play even though I'm not sold.

IMO the ship has sailed on that title, there's just too many great games from superb developers and new ones on the horizon vying for the entertainment coin.

Best of luck gaming my friends!!  :)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Toonces on December 03, 2015, 10:20:05 AM
I'm going to give you guys the best advice you're ever going to get:

When/if an AI module is released for this game, DO NOT BUY IT for AT LEAST ONE MONTH.  Yes, I put that in all caps.  Let some other suckers players buy it first and play it for a month to see how it works.

You guys need to trust ole Toonces on this one.  Be smart and do the right thing.  Especially YOU JD!   8)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 03, 2015, 10:24:26 AM
I'm going to give you guys the best advice you're ever going to get:

When/if an AI module is released for this game, DO NOT BUY IT for AT LEAST ONE MONTH.  Yes, I put that in all caps.  Let some other suckers players buy it first and play it for a month to see how it works.

You guys need to trust ole Toonces on this one.  Be smart and do the right thing.  Especially YOU JD!   8)

Well, IF an ai module is ever available and it's not free for people who invested in a broken $100 game, then you won't have to worry about me ever considering a purchase :)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on December 03, 2015, 10:31:05 AM
I'm going to give you guys the best advice you're ever going to get:

When/if an AI module is released for this game, DO NOT BUY IT for AT LEAST ONE MONTH.  Yes, I put that in all caps.  Let some other suckers players buy it first and play it for a month to see how it works.

You guys need to trust ole Toonces on this one.  Be smart and do the right thing.  Especially YOU JD!   8)
lol - I'll try. Unfortunately, I think the general consensus of it never appearing is probably correct  :(
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Swatter on December 03, 2015, 12:46:41 PM
I have my doubts an effective AI could be developed for a game like this. WiTP:AE is a good case study in there just being too much going on for an AI to intelligently handle.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on December 03, 2015, 12:51:06 PM
True - but a "good" AI is subjective. It can really depend on the player how good an AI "seems"

I'm not a very good player and so get away with having a decent fight against what other people would regard as mediocre (or even pretty bad) AI.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 03, 2015, 12:56:47 PM
Well, I doubt we will ever find out either way...but fun to speculate.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Nefaro on December 03, 2015, 08:46:47 PM
Sure I read when an AI is done you have to pay for it..

Watch for the $100 standalone Captain's Premium Edition!

 :P
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Asid on December 03, 2015, 09:04:56 PM
Watch for the $100 standalone Captain's Premium Edition!

 :P
Is it the same price for Digital and physical+Hardback manuals?  ::)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: dinsdale on December 03, 2015, 10:56:18 PM
I gave up on this sometime around 2008 or 2009, during one of the 'its almost finished but I just found 400 new issues so its going to be another 6 months' announcements that used to go on in the forum from time to time. For about 5 years it was 6 months away from release, so it really signalled that any post-release patching would be tragically slow.

Same thing happened with Empires In Arms. Massively complicated boardgame + painstakingly literal translation by 1 solo programmer = disaster. I'm surprised ADG allowed either of these games to be released as they were probably the 2 worst matrix games of all time.

One thing I didn't really understand was after the AI was announced to be dropped from initial release: The Vassal module looks significantly better, and although I haven't played WIF on vassal, other games have been spectacularly good on that platform, what was the appeal of a game with no AI and sub-vassal gameplay?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on December 03, 2015, 11:33:04 PM
Am I right in thinking the MWiF game contains most of the boardgame modules?

If so - what was the reason behind creating such a behemoth? Why not split it down to it's boardgame modules. Seems to me that would have been much more manageable whilst also guaranteeing a stream of revenue for DLC.

I know - it's called World in Flames - but the ultimate end product could've resulted in that.

Such a shame. I absolutely think this game could've been amazing with the look and feel and play mechanics.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Ubercat on December 04, 2015, 05:13:46 AM

... The Vassal module looks significantly better, and although I haven't played WIF on vassal, other games have been spectacularly good on that platform, what was the appeal of a game with no AI and sub-vassal gameplay?

I wouldn't say the Vassal mod looks better. Those mountains are hideous. I also appreciate that MWIF includes the entire planet on the map. I think the biggest part of the appeal for MWIF is rules enforcement. That helps a lot for those of us who aren't experts at the game.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: ArizonaTank on December 04, 2015, 06:40:54 AM

... The Vassal module looks significantly better, and although I haven't played WIF on vassal, other games have been spectacularly good on that platform, what was the appeal of a game with no AI and sub-vassal gameplay?

I wouldn't say the Vassal mod looks better. Those mountains are hideous. I also appreciate that MWIF includes the entire planet on the map. I think the biggest part of the appeal for MWIF is rules enforcement. That helps a lot for those of us who aren't experts at the game.

I am definitely in the vassal camp as well.  Without AI, the only value I could possibly see for the Matrix game is as some sort of computer aided training system for learning the board game.  And I would consider the Matrix game for "training"...but at $69 on sale, Matrix WiF is still too pricey for me. 
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Pete Dero on January 23, 2016, 09:03:55 AM
New update : http://www.matrixgames.com/news/1875/World.in.Flames.has.been.updated.to.version.2.1.4.!

Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Asid on January 23, 2016, 09:08:14 AM
New update
Is it playable online? ..... Is it playable?

Regards
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on January 23, 2016, 09:18:30 AM
New update
Is it playable online? ..... Is it playable?

Regards

I have zero faith this game will ever completely be playable.....patch notes are still extremely long after many years being released.....and most of these things are still fixing bugs.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Asid on January 23, 2016, 09:32:25 AM
The thing is it has heen out for over 2 years....So many bugs  :idiot2:
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: bbmike on January 23, 2016, 09:35:04 AM
I thought solo play was working okay?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on January 23, 2016, 09:45:33 AM
I thought solo play was working okay?

Still seems like fixes for solo...probably doesn't crash like netplay but I doubt it is clean...to be honest, I wonder how many people have even completed an entire large game, even solo?  Scares me to death to invest a lot of time and find out in the later war years yet another critical bug.

By all means, people can buy and try and maybe they can get some enjoyment out of it, but for me I have lost complete interest and faith:)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grimnirsson on January 23, 2016, 10:52:44 AM
Quote
The thing is it has heen out for over 2 years....So many bugs

Matrix should pull the plug on this project, refund for those who bought the mess and never talk about it again.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Flywheel on August 28, 2016, 03:38:20 PM
I know this is an old thread, but just want to express my disappointment in reading it all. I have just spotted WiF on Matrix and although it is £80.99 I got pretty excited at the scope of it, Then I spent a good portion of this evening watching and learning from it's in-depth YouTube tutorials. My mind was then made up, no food for a couple of weeks so I could buy it. Hang on, lets go to Grogheads, there must be some kind of review.
I am gutted...
I don't suppose there is any updates on this story?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 28, 2016, 03:51:41 PM
I could be wrong - but as far as I'm aware, it's still not working. Of course, there will be "well, it is but..." - but afaik, last time I was interested in looking, it still wasn't working as designed.

For some reason supply (of oil?) stiskc in my head as not working properly and iirc that has been a long term issue. Certainly Netplay isn't working - and that was meant to be fixed two weeks after release.

There's seriously no point in asking on the Matrix forums because the people who are ever present on those forums have found work arounds or just simply happy that the game was ever made - warts and all. So you will not likely get a balanced view of the state of the game.

Not that my comments are "balanced"...I haven't loaded it up in some time. I do know the last time I loaded it, the tutorials in the game were not up to date and therefore, not really tutorials.

If I were you, I would go and look on the Matrix forums...don't ask - just read. Read the dev diary (the dev was (is?) keeping a list of things fixed and broken) and look through the depths of the forum for some info on it's status. I have to say, there were things the dev posted in the monthly update threads that left me scratching my head. I knew he had a life to lead - but seriously, I don't need to know he's completed his bathroom (or whatever it was I read one time)...I just want his game to work.

I loved the look of the game and the play methods intrigued me - but I was never going to spend what was around £100 of more at release to play a broken game. I did get it second hand from a person for £30 I think. But it's still £30 I've never got any use out of...as I said, the tutorials don't even help to learn the game now (or at least, they were not being kept up to date).

It was broke and afaik it's still not fully functional. To what extent it is still broken, I genuinely couldn't say.

If you do get it just remember what you are getting is a single player game. Netplay is broken, there's no pbem and there's no AI.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Flywheel on August 28, 2016, 04:01:51 PM
I'm fine with what you've said, so thanks for the reply Dredd. No way would I throw £80 at a game that has ongoing serious issues. Thank goodness for this forum and this thread otherwise with it being so enticing I would have brought the thing.
Thanks again for the input.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 28, 2016, 04:05:25 PM
You should go and have a look on the forums at Matrix though. It may have gotten better since I last looked. Alas - the progress, where made, seems to be painfully slow and I read at times that one fix broke something else.

But my memory is sketchy (at best) and I haven't been over there for a while to check...so if you are interested in the game (and can take it as a solitaire game) then I would suggest you pop in over there and have a little read at how it is.  O0
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on August 28, 2016, 04:09:51 PM
Don't get me started on this "game" (if we can call it complete yet)....single worst purchase I made for a game!



Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 28, 2016, 04:10:33 PM
As I said, I recall supply being a long term issue and sure enough, a read at the latest post in the Monthly Update has this as the opening line

Quote
Bugs
 In July I spent 3+ weeks working on Supply.

That's been a loooong time now that supply has not been working properly.

Quote
That was mostly spent on tertiary supply, to make sure all possible supply sources are correctly identified. There were only a handful of bugs, but those were very difficult to locate in the 18,000+ lines of code devoted solely to calculating and displaying supply. In effect, I went over and over code that was working perfectly, looking for the few places where the logic had a fault.

I remember something about in certain circumstances it wouldn't work and in some it would - probably adding to the amount of time trying to fix it. But those are the kind of problems I remember people having...pointing out an issue, people saying it wasn't broken and it was in their head and then it being discovered that actually "a problem" did exists but was intermittent.

So yeah - still issues. Isn't supply a big thing for the game?

I think the term "buyer beware" should be applied liberally.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on August 28, 2016, 04:13:09 PM
If and when it is ever finished, the game will be so outdated from a technology standpoint (hasn't it been in development for 10+ years???)...Matrix really disappointed me on this one with a lot of early promises of quick fixes......no way they didn't know the shape of this game upon release.  I don't ask for refunds much, but the company should have offered them.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: undercovergeek on August 28, 2016, 04:16:30 PM
The lies they peddled when this was released was the last time I ever even went to the matrix site - I'm insignificant in the sum of their whole but I would never buy another matrix game and would tell anyone I could to never buy one - it's still there in plain sight 'for sale' like a working game - they should be damn well ashamed to take people's money
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Flywheel on August 28, 2016, 04:19:48 PM
You should go and have a look on the forums at Matrix though. It may have gotten better since I last looked. Alas - the progress, where made, seems to be painfully slow and I read at times that one fix broke something else.

Yes, I may do.

...so if you are interested in the game (and can take it as a solitaire game) then I would suggest you pop in over there and have a little read at how it is.  O0

I'm not entirely clear on this, if you have a pc game and there is no computer AI opponent, how do you play a solitaire game? Of course, I might just be thick  :-[
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on August 28, 2016, 04:20:29 PM
It's funny they still have all their disclaimers on their store page after all this time...if those are required, shouldn't sell the darn thing...

----------------------------------
IMPORTANT: For news on the state of Multiplayer at release and World in Flames, please read this Forum post.

For more information on physical copy shipment and customs costs, please read this Forum post.

 For more in-game content, read the "Seven Moments of WoW"!

IMPORTANT NOTE: This title does not include an AI player in the initial release.  It is designed as a computerized, automated and online multiplayer-capable World in Flames, including an integrated multiplayer forum and an official multiplayer server for easy player matching and networking.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on August 28, 2016, 04:21:29 PM
You should go and have a look on the forums at Matrix though. It may have gotten better since I last looked. Alas - the progress, where made, seems to be painfully slow and I read at times that one fix broke something else.

Yes, I may do.

...so if you are interested in the game (and can take it as a solitaire game) then I would suggest you pop in over there and have a little read at how it is.  O0

I'm not entirely clear on this, if you have a pc game and there is no computer AI opponent, how do you play a solitaire game? Of course, I might just be thick  :-[

You play all sides in the game......not really my favorite way either....but I originally bought the game thinking I could at least learn the rules before an AI was implemented....
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: mirth on August 28, 2016, 04:23:54 PM
The idea that WiF could ever be successfully converted to a computer game was pure fantasy. Matrix had no business foisting this off on the public. It's a real black mark against a usually reputable company.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 28, 2016, 04:24:56 PM
You should go and have a look on the forums at Matrix though. It may have gotten better since I last looked. Alas - the progress, where made, seems to be painfully slow and I read at times that one fix broke something else.

Yes, I may do.

...so if you are interested in the game (and can take it as a solitaire game) then I would suggest you pop in over there and have a little read at how it is.  O0

I'm not entirely clear on this, if you have a pc game and there is no computer AI opponent, how do you play a solitaire game? Of course, I might just be thick  :-[
By playing all sides.

It requires considerably "detachment" to one side or another and relies on your good will. Would you move that ship there if you didn't know that the British were going to move their submarines there in the next turn or two...that kind of thing.

It's especially difficult to do with this game because you will be playing ALL sides - and there's more than two. Of course, some have said it's easier because there's so many units that you simply can't keep track of everything and therefore don't actually know that the move you are about to make could be a bad one.

It's certainly not ideal.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 28, 2016, 04:26:13 PM
You should go and have a look on the forums at Matrix though. It may have gotten better since I last looked. Alas - the progress, where made, seems to be painfully slow and I read at times that one fix broke something else.

Yes, I may do.

...so if you are interested in the game (and can take it as a solitaire game) then I would suggest you pop in over there and have a little read at how it is.  O0

I'm not entirely clear on this, if you have a pc game and there is no computer AI opponent, how do you play a solitaire game? Of course, I might just be thick  :-[

You play all sides in the game......not really my favorite way either....but I originally bought the game thinking I could at least learn the rules before an AI was implemented....
ditto
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Flywheel on August 28, 2016, 04:26:35 PM

I just read the small print and they do warn me.

Players: 1-2
AI: No
PBEM: No
File Size: 2260mb
Download Time:
- 56K Modem: 89hr 40min
- DSL or Satelite: 4hr 54min
- High Speed: 60min
Version: 1.00
Manual: Printed - Color
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Flywheel on August 28, 2016, 04:29:12 PM
You play all sides in the game......not really my favorite way either....but I originally bought the game thinking I could at least learn the rules before an AI was implemented....

I must have missed that bit..
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Flywheel on August 28, 2016, 04:29:44 PM
Oh well, story closed, thanks guys
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 28, 2016, 04:31:07 PM
One other thing....the manuals may be stunning - I've heard great things about them - but after almost 3 years of development, they will probably be all but useless as printed reference books.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on August 28, 2016, 04:57:16 PM
The manuals were good and had promise.....main reason I spent over a $100.....but your 100% correct, likely little value now.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Flywheel on August 28, 2016, 05:03:02 PM
I always took for granted that a computer wargame came bundled with an AI - well, you do don't you - this has taught me to be a little careful and check the specs - especially if it is a Matrix game.

That's a lot of money to lose, Grim, I feel for that, it's bitter.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on August 28, 2016, 05:19:34 PM
I've gotten over the money, but just really thought Matrix should have treated their customers better.....there is just no way they didn't know how bad things were and that fixes would take a very long time (if ever fully) contrary to what they stated.  Refunds or some kind of discount on other games should have happened....it would have been one thing if they said it was "early access" or something, but that was not the case.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: ArizonaTank on August 28, 2016, 10:11:29 PM
Oh well, story closed, thanks guys

As has been pointed out previously, for about the same money, you could get a copy of WiF (board game version) Final Edition on Ebay or Amazon, and then use the free Vassal module to play virtually.  Of course Vassal doesn't "enforce" the rules, so you really need to know them.  But at least you get a copy of the board game out of it.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Flywheel on August 29, 2016, 12:37:23 AM
Yes, AT, that is an option I noticed mentioned and would be some result. Thanks for reminding me of it.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: chemkid on August 29, 2016, 02:29:00 AM
...funny to see this thread pop up once a while. i'd like to install the game, watch the latest 800mb hotfix finish downloading and look at a barbarossa-setup starring back at me... i'll cry, uninstall and go to bed early... thanks a bundle! ;)

btw, the books are cute and the maps weight a ton!  O0
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: challerain on August 29, 2016, 06:34:55 PM
I always took for granted that a computer wargame came bundled with an AI - well, you do don't you - this has taught me to be a little careful and check the specs - especially if it is a Matrix game.

That's a lot of money to lose, Grim, I feel for that, it's bitter.

To be somewhat fair to Matrix, its not like they sold the game and then said "surprise, no AI!" It was clear before it went on sale that there would be no AI
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Tuna on August 29, 2016, 07:06:38 PM
I always took for granted that a computer wargame came bundled with an AI - well, you do don't you - this has taught me to be a little careful and check the specs - especially if it is a Matrix game.

That's a lot of money to lose, Grim, I feel for that, it's bitter.

To be somewhat fair to Matrix, its not like they sold the game and then said "surprise, no AI!" It was clear before it went on sale that there would be no AI

To be fair to the 'consumer' The game is still a mess, yet they still charge a 'premium' price for it, which never should've happened in the first place.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: dinsdale on August 29, 2016, 08:32:51 PM
I always took for granted that a computer wargame came bundled with an AI - well, you do don't you - this has taught me to be a little careful and check the specs - especially if it is a Matrix game.

That's a lot of money to lose, Grim, I feel for that, it's bitter.

To be somewhat fair to Matrix, its not like they sold the game and then said "surprise, no AI!" It was clear before it went on sale that there would be no AI

True. Though they did know the game was a mess, that fixes would be incredibly slow and that the game should have been shoved out at a steep discount to close the project. Instead they decide to create physical enhancements bump up the price and declare victory.

A squalid chapter in Matrix's history, which could be forgiven if they didn't have precisely the same result with Empires in Arms a few years before...sans the manual/map marketing ploy.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: challerain on August 29, 2016, 08:44:17 PM
I always took for granted that a computer wargame came bundled with an AI - well, you do don't you - this has taught me to be a little careful and check the specs - especially if it is a Matrix game.

That's a lot of money to lose, Grim, I feel for that, it's bitter.

To be somewhat fair to Matrix, its not like they sold the game and then said "surprise, no AI!" It was clear before it went on sale that there would be no AI

To be fair to the 'consumer' The game is still a mess, yet they still charge a 'premium' price for it, which never should've happened in the first place.

I understand, but the buyer should know that and can make a choice.

I'm not saying I agree with what they did.  There were some comments up above that sounded like people thought the missing AI was deceptive.  It wasn't. 
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on August 30, 2016, 03:21:40 AM
A missing ai was not deceptive, that was always clear.....selling a broken game which they clearly knew was a mess, is extremely deceptive while charging a premium price which they made a huge deal about because of the depth and quality of the game.  And then doing nothing to make it right with their long term customers, just plain bad business practice.

As for new buyers, not everyone is likely aware of the history...you'll say they should research it extensively first before buying.....not everyone reads through volumes of forum posts before making a purchase.  This game will never reach a competed state based on the history.  If I am not mistaken, right after release it was said the issues would only take a few weeks to correct....it now has been years with no clear end in sight.  Doesn't seem like a game like this should be available for purchase under those conditions.

Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Flywheel on August 30, 2016, 03:31:13 AM
Grim is absolutely right. I looked at YouTube and the juices got flowing to the exception of all else, it looked like a full-on WWII, just what I have been seeking. My enthusiasm heightened when I saw it on Matrix and affordable if I went on a starvation diet. What I didn't notice, as posted earlier, it does say 'AI: no' it is also not mentioned in the blurb which should be a heads up, but I ignored that too. I was only saved from a useless impulse buy when I posted here initially to ask what players thought of it. That's the only thing that stopped me. But I do think there should be a little more mention of no AI, that is generally why you by computer wargames. I am too crap to engage another human player so depend on AI, and I can't be the only one.

I wasn't aware of any history with it at all, not till I read this thread and then posted asking if since the threads last activity there had been any improvement. I know it's a different subject, but I can't help but compare this as a similar situation to No Man's Sky. What should be in the game isn't, and a game priced way over what your expectations are purchasing.
That's how I see it.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: PanzerFaust on August 30, 2016, 06:49:05 AM
Grim is absolutely right. I looked at YouTube and the juices got flowing to the exception of all else, it looked like a full-on WWII, just what I have been seeking. My enthusiasm heightened when I saw it on Matrix and affordable if I went on a starvation diet. What I didn't notice, as posted earlier, it does say 'AI: no' it is also not mentioned in the blurb which should be a heads up, but I ignored that too. I was only saved from a useless impulse buy when I posted here initially to ask what players thought of it. That's the only thing that stopped me. But I do think there should be a little more mention of no AI, that is generally why you by computer wargames. I am too crap to engage another human player so depend on AI, and I can't be the only one.

I wasn't aware of any history with it at all, not till I read this thread and then posted asking if since the threads last activity there had been any improvement. I know it's a different subject, but I can't help but compare this as a similar situation to No Man's Sky. What should be in the game isn't, and a game priced way over what your expectations are purchasing.
That's how I see it.

Sorry but in the product description it clearly says:

"IMPORTANT NOTE: This title does not include an AI player in the initial release.  It is designed as a computerized, automated and online multiplayer-capable World in Flames, including an integrated multiplayer forum and an official multiplayer server for easy player matching and networking."

How is it "not mentioned"?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Pete Dero on August 30, 2016, 07:34:33 AM
Sorry but in the product description it clearly says:

"IMPORTANT NOTE: This title does not include an AI player in the initial release.  It is designed as a computerized, automated and online multiplayer-capable World in Flames, including an integrated multiplayer forum and an official multiplayer server for easy player matching and networking."

How is it "not mentioned"?

Yes but even in june 2015 solo and multiplayer wasn't functioning as expected.

Solitaire has similarly improved along with NetPlay and the state of the game now is much better than it was when I posted the 2014 State of the Game update. For many players, solitaire can now be played with relatively few bugs or problems, though for some playstyles and rule combinations and some areas of the core rules, there are still serious issues that we have to fix.

Our primary goal for the rest of this year is to finish working through the remaining issues list and to make sure that solitaire and NetPlay are as bug-free and stable as possible for the vast majority of players. We also plan to address any core rule issues first before we move onto optional rules and other additions to the game. Because of the complexity of MWIF, putting a timeline on this is near impossible, but the steady progress of the last year gives us some optimism that we are getting nearer to that goal every day and that it is possible we will reach that point this year.


source : http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3878065
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: chemkid on December 31, 2016, 08:05:41 AM
decided to install the latest beta+hotfix today and keep it installed for:
(new year's resolution coming up!!!)

AT LEAST 3 MONTHS!!!  :crazy2:

now, who's with me? who likes to learn the UI and gameplay? 2-player netplay should be ready... or not?

happy new year!!!   <:-)
chem!
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 31, 2016, 08:40:23 AM
Not a chance.....I refuse to install or play this game based on its sorted history:)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Tuna on December 31, 2016, 08:57:49 AM
Not a chance.....I refuse to install or play this game based on its sorted history:)

I think there will be a 30 dollar update coming out soon that fixes everything!  :crazy2:
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on December 31, 2016, 09:02:35 AM
Not a chance.....I refuse to install or play this game based on its sorted history:)

I think there will be a 30 dollar update coming out soon that fixes everything!  :crazy2:

Not even a close comparison, but when I posted the above,  I did suspect you would say that:)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Tuna on December 31, 2016, 09:16:08 AM
Not a chance.....I refuse to install or play this game based on its sorted history:)

I think there will be a 30 dollar update coming out soon that fixes everything!  :crazy2:

Not even a close comparison, but when I posted the above,  I did suspect you would say that:)

 ;)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: bbmike on December 31, 2016, 01:31:53 PM
As long as I can play solo and it works I will be happy.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Pete Dero on November 08, 2017, 08:19:10 AM
http://www.matrixgames.com/news/2420/World.in.Flames.-.Official.Update.Release.02.07.00.00

World in Flames has been updated to version 02.07.00.00! This update is a truly major step forwards, with tons and tons of improvements and additions. The full change list is absolutely enormous, so here below you can find some highlights!
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 08, 2017, 08:46:27 AM
But the question is - what does it break to fix?

Honestly, I've read many times of things that were fixed but at the expense of breaking something - something to do with supply springs to mind.

I'll give the developer his dues - he's tenacious.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on November 08, 2017, 05:14:02 PM
Personally I feel this game is an embarrassment along with how Matrix handled it.....really great to see them roll out huge patches 4 YEARS LATER...just goes to show you how far it ever was from release, but yet they released it and never offered any compensation for it.  Yes, I understand sometimes games get released and their bad and buyer beware, but the main functions weren't even playable and I believe they initially indicated everything would be fixed in weeks......and to top it all off, we got to pay a premium price for a less than premium game.

Yep I am bitter and will never invest in that series again and it was the closest experience for me of not supporting the publisher ever again....

But moving on, I really have to stop looking at this thread when it comes up:)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: mirth on November 08, 2017, 05:18:29 PM
The truth is the game was never meant to be adapted for PC. Too massive and too complex. You could throw millions at the development and still not get there.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 08, 2017, 06:08:02 PM
This game is why I stopped writing manuals for Matrix. It was indeed way too massive an complex and would have taken way too much time.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: mirth on November 08, 2017, 06:19:16 PM
So some good came out of it :P
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 08, 2017, 06:21:43 PM
Better someone else do it than me.

When you invest 80 hours of your time in developing something that massive, and you get paid a flat rate, and it comes out to a rate per hour that's below what I was making in 1993...no. My free time was much more valuable to me.

Course I could have handled it better, but oh well. That was ten years ago.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Sir Slash on November 08, 2017, 09:02:53 PM
Once upon a time, I thought I'd found my True Love in this game. Then I realized she was just a beautiful picture posted on a website not a real girl at all. The pain is still very real to me and I will never let her convince me to risk my heart again that she has changed.  :'(   Plus she's too damned expensive.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 08, 2017, 11:19:05 PM
Better someone else do it than me.

When you invest 80 hours of your time in developing something that massive, and you get paid a flat rate, and it comes out to a rate per hour that's below what I was making in 1993...no. My free time was much more valuable to me.

Course I could have handled it better, but oh well. That was ten years ago.
Did you write the manuals for WiF? If so you should be proud - they were apparently very well received.

As for payment for them - you'll have to blame us gamers. We're the ones that want nice big manuals at low cost.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 09, 2017, 04:42:01 AM
Nope, I didn't. It's a long story - I was supposed to, but that was the breaking point for me. I'd already done about a dozen at that point for games leading up to it...can't recall all of them but it included World at War (both editions), the Harpoon remake, OAW III, Massive Assault, and several others. I think Moby Games has my credits listed but I'm too lazy to check.

As for low cost, that had little to do with my rate. I can't speak poorly of it because that side job came at a time when we desperately needed it, so I have nothing but good things to say/think about Matrix. It just became something whose reward was not worth the effort it would take on my part. By the time this happened I had a better-paying job, thankfully...but this side gig helped bridge the gap big time.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Zulu1966 on November 09, 2017, 06:31:59 AM
As long as I can play solo and it works I will be happy.

This is precisely the point for me. And frankly even now I have no idea whether it is. I believe I can't and in many ways it is still non functional even from that point of view. Yet matrix are still selling it and at the same exorbitant price. That is my biggest issue.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: spelk on November 10, 2017, 05:34:52 AM
This surfaced in my Twitter feed:

https://bigbossbattle.com/observation-matrix-world-in-flames/

Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: RyanE on November 10, 2017, 06:58:22 AM
Reading this thread got me curious about WiF.  I know nothing about the game, PC or board.  So I decided to take a look at the Matrix forums.  For one thing, there is not much complaining for a game that after four years appears to still be under development.  The one thread where someone was complaining they got ripped off really surprised me because there were a couple people aggressively defending the game.  Are these people just stooges or am I missing something?  Why would someone so aggressively defend a game that appears, from the outside, to have basically ripped off their customers?

On another note, I am stunned that Matrix is involved in something like this.  Forcing people to spend over $100 on hardcover books and then later saying you didn't have to.  It makes no business sense to screw you customers over like that.  Like I said, I am a real outsider on this and really just trying to figure it out.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 10, 2017, 07:25:54 AM
The reason there's very little in the way of "complainers" is because they were chased out to make it a nice friendly atmosphere.

The vitriol early on coming from the mouths of defenders of the game - people mostly who are hard core fans of the board game.

I remember one thread with someone complaining about the state of the game etc, etc. and pretty much in a nutshell being told they shouldn't be complaining because buying all the board game stuff would cost hundreds of pounds.

It was ridiculous. Once the early adopters who were pissed off with being ripped off buggered off, it was almost exclusively a haven for people who wanted to pat themselves on the back about being able to play a broken game and "standing by the developer".

And whomever mentioned it earlier (Gus?) Yes - they did say that netplay would be fixed in two weeks. I haven't caught up again, but I'm pretty sure it's still broke.

What really chaps my ass though is that even if it was fixed - and who know because alot of problems were further down the road - the manuals and tutorials ain't worth shit - so it's impossible to pick the game up and learn it. Last I looked the tutorials didn't work.

It should be said - given it's retro look, I love the look of the game. But it's interface is so shit and clunky and no proper documentation to learn the game means your screwed if you buy now.

I could be wrong on the documentation and if I am, I apologise. But I'm certain (last I looked) the tutorials were screwed.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: RyanE on November 10, 2017, 08:15:50 AM
What I don't understand is Matrix getting a pass on this on the wargaming forums.  I mean people go apoplectic over a $10 game on steam...$150 to participate in a 4+ year early access?  I would have expected Matrix to eat a little humble pie on this.  They should do a few things:

1) Offer full refund on the game at any time up to the game function as advertised
2) Not allow a single customer to be shouted down for complaining.  They should have an entire forum dedicated to people venting
3) Ban guys like warspite for attacking paying customers complaining about the game
4) Have in huge red letters on the buying page that the game doen't function as advertised, buy at your own risk, pr maybe pull it off the store page.

When I saw the screen shots, I thought of this link from the Command forums making fun of UIs...https://weblogs.asp.net/alex_papadimoulis/146784

Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: ArizonaTank on November 10, 2017, 08:33:15 AM
Personally I feel this game is an embarrassment along with how Matrix handled it.....really great to see them roll out huge patches 4 YEARS LATER...just goes to show you how far it ever was from release, but yet they released it and never offered any compensation for it.....

I agree with you of course. 

But it is interesting that if they released it unfinished today on Steam, they could call it an "alpha" and everybody would be OK with that. 

There are games that have been in development on Steam for 3-4 years and still in "alpha".

As far as Matrix WiF is concerned...I am still on the sidelines, waiting patiently for the price to rationalize and the development to settle more. 

In the meantime, DDD Game designs hosts a beautiful vassal module for World in Flames.  I haven't actually used it yet, but it is on my list.  I have played around with it, and it looks wonderful and it is free.

http://dddgamedesigns.com/vassal-products/ (http://dddgamedesigns.com/vassal-products/)

Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: RyanE on November 10, 2017, 09:05:59 AM
I agree on the alpha, but for $150 and it wasn't rolled out that way.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 10, 2017, 09:15:45 AM
Personally I feel this game is an embarrassment along with how Matrix handled it.....really great to see them roll out huge patches 4 YEARS LATER...just goes to show you how far it ever was from release, but yet they released it and never offered any compensation for it.....

I agree with you of course. 

But it is interesting that if they released it unfinished today on Steam, they could call it an "alpha" and everybody would be OK with that. 

There are games that have been in development on Steam for 3-4 years and still in "alpha".

As far as Matrix WiF is concerned...I am still on the sidelines, waiting patiently for the price to rationalize and the development to settle more. 

In the meantime, DDD Game designs hosts a beautiful vassal module for World in Flames.  I haven't actually used it yet, but it is on my list.  I have played around with it, and it looks wonderful and it is free.

http://dddgamedesigns.com/vassal-products/ (http://dddgamedesigns.com/vassal-products/)
I agree - but at least you know it's ALPHA. It's about knowing what you're buying into. Not being sold a broken product at full tilt. If you want to buy an ALPHA product at £100 then you can make that choice. But if you're told it's a working game (or will be working in 2 weeks), then that's a different matter. You may choose to wait the 2 weeks.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on November 10, 2017, 09:27:59 AM
Agree with the others, if sold as alpha that is one thing, but this was marketed as premium finished product.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Zulu1966 on November 10, 2017, 10:58:13 AM
This surfaced in my Twitter feed:

https://bigbossbattle.com/observation-matrix-world-in-flames/

Thats an interesting article. One thing strikes me above all else - in that (the fact it doesnt work aside) he is talking about the computer game - so how the hell does anyone ever learn how to play the board game - which must be infinitely more complex given everything the computer must be doing...
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: RyanE on November 10, 2017, 11:42:33 AM
Its kind of like ASL in my view after reading about it.  And WiF is an example of why ASL has never fully been made into a PC game.  The lawyering over rules is the primary competition, not really the tactical or strategic decision-making.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 10, 2017, 12:14:34 PM
This surfaced in my Twitter feed:

https://bigbossbattle.com/observation-matrix-world-in-flames/
Read the manual and then read the manual again? Seriously. 700 pages would take me a year to read! I suppose by the time I've read it twice netplay may be fixed.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: mirth on November 10, 2017, 12:19:35 PM
^I wouldn't count on it.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 10, 2017, 12:27:41 PM
Example - this is the first interactive tutorial.

Step 4 says
LC drop down menu Command; LC Find City/Port; TY rom; OK

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4586/37599570034_ce96cdd013_b.jpg)

LC means left click, TY means type. However, the Command window has nowhere to type. Only a list and pressing a key (example R) will take you to the first entry with that letter (example Rabat). So the tutorial doesn't fit the tools. And that's only the 4 entry in the first tutorial.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 10, 2017, 12:28:57 PM
Silly documentation!
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: mirth on November 10, 2017, 12:32:18 PM
Silly documentation!

You sure you didn't write that manual? :P
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 10, 2017, 12:33:26 PM
If I did, these problems would not exist.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: RyanE on November 10, 2017, 12:35:24 PM
Has documentation kept up with all the changes over the first year?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: mirth on November 10, 2017, 12:36:08 PM

If I did, these problems would not exist.

Yeah, it'd a completely different set of problems!  ;D
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 10, 2017, 12:40:58 PM
Arguably!  :2funny:

No, I was kind of difficult to deal with. I remember pissing off Joel Billings a couple of times because I was very methodical (e.g. too slow for them). I wasn't going to pass along a product that was messed up.

Development of this began a LONG time ago. If the above holds true I'd STILL be writing that damned manual. ;)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: mirth on November 10, 2017, 12:43:17 PM
^hah!  They would have hated you! The manual is the only thing they really have to sell.  :crazy2:
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 10, 2017, 12:45:21 PM
Has documentation kept up with all the changes over the first year?
I honestly could not say. But given the scale of the issues (and more being found all the time), I would hazard a guess, no.

Those interactive tutorials are extremely poor anyway. Just written and abbreviated - they're just painful.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 10, 2017, 12:55:22 PM
It does have a helpful feature of letting you click the current phase button which brings up a helpful text box giving some info on what's going on. I've always been a huge fan of context help.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4540/38260985556_4367186eee_b.jpg)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: mirth on November 10, 2017, 12:59:21 PM
that is one fugly UI.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: IronX on November 10, 2017, 02:02:08 PM
It looks like a '90s web page.  :D
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: mirth on November 10, 2017, 02:07:28 PM
It looks like a '90s web page.  :D

no joke :/
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 10, 2017, 02:11:44 PM
Better design here  ;D

http://www.somethingawful.com/hosted/jeffk/
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 10, 2017, 03:48:51 PM
^ That cannot be real. Please tell me it's not real. I was having palpitations reading that!
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: bbmike on November 10, 2017, 03:50:46 PM
What's wrong with '90s web pages?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: RyanE on November 10, 2017, 04:13:37 PM
...said Fox Mulder
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: IronX on November 10, 2017, 04:23:34 PM
Better design here  ;D

http://www.somethingawful.com/hosted/jeffk/

Neato. I think it's great that he used to be a haxor and later become a computar consultant, becuase hax0ring si illegal!!!.

It's missing a couple of the mandatory pieces of 90s web design, though. While he has the "under construction" gif, he definitely needs a web hit counter and some awful 8-bit auto-launched music.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 10, 2017, 04:34:46 PM
^ That cannot be real. Please tell me it's not real. I was having palpitations reading that!

Rest easy.

That page was a joke that Something Awful created back in 2004. I used to peruse the SA site and forums a lot. I'm surprised they've still got it up.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: undercovergeek on November 10, 2017, 04:38:49 PM
........and that was the last we ever saw of JD
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Tuna on November 10, 2017, 04:40:11 PM
........and that was the last we ever saw of JD

LOL
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 10, 2017, 04:42:38 PM
Oh, you guys ain't seen nothing yet.

Go check out their collection of Cliff Yablonski photos and commentary. 'Cliff' is a grouchy old man that makes fun of everybody.

http://www.somethingawful.com/cliff-yablonski/i-hate-you-01/

That's just Page 1. Look to the left and you'll see 280 pages of it. ;D

Here's his "main page:" http://www.somethingawful.com/cliff-yablonski/

Sorry for derailing with this nonsense. Especially THIS nonsense. ;)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on November 10, 2017, 11:18:00 PM
That's not really my kind of humour but fill yer boots BC  :buck2:
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: BanzaiCat on November 11, 2017, 12:40:16 PM
That's not really my kind of humour but fill yer boots BC  :buck2:

I found it amusing 15 years ago. I do to an extent today, but not like back then. I still have juvenile tastes in humor, but then so do the rest of you, so... :P
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Mower on January 17, 2018, 07:12:14 PM
Sit rep please....AI yet?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Barthheart on January 17, 2018, 07:17:26 PM
 :DD
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: mirth on January 17, 2018, 07:22:52 PM
:DD

+1
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on January 17, 2018, 07:31:08 PM
:DD

+1

+2
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Staggerwing on January 17, 2018, 07:52:37 PM
Sit rep please....AI yet?

Yes, if you can productively employ a dissociative identity disorder as a gaming opponent.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: smittyohio on January 18, 2018, 08:57:10 AM
Sit rep please....AI yet?

Yes, if you can productively employ a dissociative identity disorder as a gaming opponent.

To quote the December update:

AI Opponent (AIO)
Nothing new in December.

Just keep substituting whatever month it is, and you'll get the right answer.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grimnirsson on January 18, 2018, 09:51:45 AM
No way that they get the game ever done (right) with only one person working on it (I suppose it's still just Steve?)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: FarAway Sooner on January 18, 2018, 10:13:12 PM
Have we ever had a thread that yielded 11 pages over 3 1/2 years that consists solely of lamenting about how inadequate a game is?  There must be some really passionate fans of that board game!
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on January 18, 2018, 11:23:05 PM
Have we ever had a thread that yielded 11 pages over 3 1/2 years that consists solely of lamenting about how inadequate a game is?  There must be some really passionate fans of that board game!
Misread the post -sorry. Nothing to see...move along


I SAID MOVE ALONG!  >:D
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Yskonyn on October 14, 2018, 03:20:56 PM
The October update is as follows:

October 4, 2018 Status Report for Matrix Games’ MWIF Forum

Program Development
Today I sent the Public Beta version 02.09.02.00 to Slitherine/Matrix for final approval. It should be available in the Members section of the World in Flames forum sometime next week. To the best of my knowledge, there are no outstanding issues with playing against another opponent (one-on-one) via NetPlay using that version. Of course, the reason it is a public beta is that the possibility exists that we may have missed something in our NetPlay testing.

If all goes well, we will make an Official update to World in Flames (version 03.00.00.00) as NetPlay Ready after the public beta has been in the hands of customers for 4-5 weeks.

Two Hot Patches were made available in the MWIF Forum in September: versions 02.09.01.00 and 02.09.01.04. In September the beta testers received versions 02.09.00.13, 02.09.01.01, 02.09.01.03, 02.09.01.05, 02.09.01.07, 02.09.01.09, 02.09.01.11, 02.09.01.13, and 02.09.01.15. My other opponents in my NetPlay games received ‘Release’ versions 02.09.01.06, 02.09.01.14, and 02.09.01.18..

For September, the average number of new versions created per week was just under 4. But again, like last month, a couple of those were Hot Patches, into which I put some extra effort. To say nothing of the heavy testing the public beta version received.

Bugs
My task lists are current for bugs posted in Tech Support, by the beta testers in the World in Flames Development forum, and emailed to me (including those automatically generated by Mad Except). As always I need to investigate in more detail all the bug reports. But I am mostly on top of the recent ones.

Missing Optional Rules & Half Map Scenarios
Nothing new in September.

AI Opponent (AIO)
Nothing new in September.


As for the AI they just didn't bother to update the entry to October, lol.

But seriously the next version should be the NetPlay stable version. That means the game should be good to go against other people. Anyone who bought it before is going to give it a wirl and provide feedback here?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on October 14, 2018, 03:21:52 PM
No chance...this game is dead to me.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: bbmike on October 14, 2018, 04:48:40 PM
Maybe, but he's still pecking away at it. You have to give him credit for that at least.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on October 15, 2018, 03:20:46 AM
Maybe, but he's still pecking away at it. You have to give him credit for that at least.

nope, no credit from me....although i appreciate his passion ( or insanity) doesn’t ease the complete mess of a game it was and the fact years later still releasing things to even try and hit original release items.  and don’t forget, on top of that we got to pay a premium price for it.  they knew it was completely broken (how could they not since years later still broken) but yet released it and offered no help to their customers to make things right.  instead they said trust us, everything will be fixed in couple of weeks.  obviously, the developer knew that not to be true.

sorry, this one will never be given any credit by me but maybe that is just my hang up. 
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Tuna on October 15, 2018, 06:54:35 AM
Not  bad hang up to have, when they called and priced it as a premium game!
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Sir Slash on October 15, 2018, 09:08:00 AM
I don't know.... Matrix: World in Flames or Matrix: Game in Flames? Which fits better? I was in LOVE with this game some years ago or at least it's look on the game site. Good thing I got over being such a shallow person and learned not to judge by beauty alone.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Gusington on October 15, 2018, 10:55:25 AM
Flamin’ Games.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Sir Slash on October 15, 2018, 01:31:10 PM
Cause it makes people flamin' mad?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Gusington on October 15, 2018, 04:41:32 PM
That works too.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: dinsdale on October 15, 2018, 05:29:49 PM
No chance...this game is dead to me.

5 years to fix netplay. 5.years.

I registered at Matrix in 2000 or 2001 and read about this game, followed development for years. Gave up on it about 2008 or 9, or whenever Empires in Arms came out as a sampler for the disaster this one would be.

What's amazing is the complete lack of shame. The game is still on sale at full price, years after they pushed it out broken with the vague promise that AI would be worked on soon. They should give every buyer their choice of 2 or 3 other games for putting up with waiting 5 years for multiplayer to work.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on October 15, 2018, 05:54:40 PM
No chance...this game is dead to me.

5 years to fix netplay. 5.years.

I registered at Matrix in 2000 or 2001 and read about this game, followed development for years. Gave up on it about 2008 or 9, or whenever Empires in Arms came out as a sampler for the disaster this one would be.

What's amazing is the complete lack of shame. The game is still on sale at full price, years after they pushed it out broken with the vague promise that AI would be worked on soon. They should give every buyer their choice of 2 or 3 other games for putting up with waiting 5 years for multiplayer to work.

Although I would have loved an AI, I knew buying into it that it wasn't included so I can't complain about that...but my hope was to learn the game in general.  One of my biggest concerns from the start was that it appeared nobody ever completed an entire campaign game.....so how would they know if no issues at the end of it?  Could never bring myself to playing it knowing I could get deep only to get some major issue.  Not to mention the technology on that game that long ago was a dinosaur, can't imagine how it will even hold up in the future.

Guess I never have to worry about that since I'll never install that crap on my PC again:)
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Toonces on October 15, 2018, 07:13:58 PM
Maybe, but he's still pecking away at it. You have to give him credit for that at least.

nope, no credit from me....although i appreciate his passion ( or insanity) doesn’t ease the complete mess of a game it was and the fact years later still releasing things to even try and hit original release items.  and don’t forget, on top of that we got to pay a premium price for it.  they knew it was completely broken (how could they not since years later still broken) but yet released it and offered no help to their customers to make things right.  instead they said trust us, everything will be fixed in couple of weeks.  obviously, the developer knew that not to be true.

sorry, this one will never be given any credit by me but maybe that is just my hang up.

^ This.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: bbmike on October 16, 2018, 07:13:35 AM
Maybe, but he's still pecking away at it. You have to give him credit for that at least.

nope, no credit from me....although i appreciate his passion ( or insanity) doesn’t ease the complete mess of a game it was and the fact years later still releasing things to even try and hit original release items.  and don’t forget, on top of that we got to pay a premium price for it.  they knew it was completely broken (how could they not since years later still broken) but yet released it and offered no help to their customers to make things right.  instead they said trust us, everything will be fixed in couple of weeks.  obviously, the developer knew that not to be true.

sorry, this one will never be given any credit by me but maybe that is just my hang up.

The bold part is the only credit I was referring to. I agree on all points.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Pete Dero on April 09, 2019, 10:02:50 AM
World in Flames Update NetPlay Ready 03.00.01.00 is available!

http://www.matrixgames.com/news/2820/World.in.Flames.Update..NetPlay.Ready.03.00.01.00.is.available!

NetPlay is fully working!  Now you can play World in Flames online against other players with all the assistance the computer adaptation can provide to your game.

To celebrate this key milestone, World in Flames will be on sale for a week! From April 9th to April 16th you’ll have the chance to take this incredible wargame at 60% off! You cannot miss this chance!

€ 91.99  € 36.99    
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: ArizonaTank on April 09, 2019, 11:54:41 AM
World in Flames Update NetPlay Ready 03.00.01.00 is available!

http://www.matrixgames.com/news/2820/World.in.Flames.Update..NetPlay.Ready.03.00.01.00.is.available!

NetPlay is fully working!  Now you can play World in Flames online against other players with all the assistance the computer adaptation can provide to your game.

To celebrate this key milestone, World in Flames will be on sale for a week! From April 9th to April 16th you’ll have the chance to take this incredible wargame at 60% off! You cannot miss this chance!

€ 91.99  € 36.99    


Are asynch PBEM games possible? or just "real-time"?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: -budd- on April 09, 2019, 12:41:26 PM
From what I read, just real time.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Yskonyn on April 09, 2019, 01:29:06 PM
Will you get the hardcopy books for that 37 coins?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Barthheart on April 09, 2019, 01:30:47 PM
 :DD
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Pete Dero on April 09, 2019, 01:34:18 PM
Will you get the hardcopy books for that 37 coins?

Add 6€ for boxed edition.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: smittyohio on April 09, 2019, 03:31:43 PM
NetPlay is fully working!

I wonder what "fully" means to them....
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Staggerwing on April 09, 2019, 07:03:35 PM
Will you get the hardcopy books for that 37 coins?

Add 6€ for boxed edition.

for those of us who already have the hardbacks, can we at least get a nicely bound rules supplement?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: JudgeDredd on April 09, 2019, 11:46:57 PM
Will you get the hardcopy books for that 37 coins?

Add 6€ for boxed edition.
There's not a chance in hell those books are up to date. Rather than helping, I imagine they'd be a huge hindrance by being misleading in so many places.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Moreb on April 10, 2019, 08:37:57 PM
Here's my take on it all. Years ago I used to print off the rules to WiF and skim through them with the hope of one day learning the system. It was the 'other' game while I was buying up ASL stuff and the guy at the hobby shop I bought my things from called it Wallet in Flames. It really didn't seem any more expensive than what I was putting down for ASL and some others really but I never did pick it up.

Had the free version of CWiF that was nothing but incomplete that I briefly looked at.

Years later when I saw that Matrix, a company that I had bought many games from and one that I had respected, was going to work on it I was really excited. After several years of development I was able to get in on the beta only to quickly realize I was way out of my league. How could I help when I didn't even know how to play? I was an absent tester although I did check in now and then. Since I never learned the game, and still don't know how to play, I did want to help out in some way. So I took the Manual, combined it into a single pdf and created hyperlinks for the whole thing, a task that took me a couple of months of the most mundane tasks. But I am proud of it because I hyperlinked not only the Table of Contents but every single rules reference and the expansive index too.

What does all of this mean? Not much other than I was able to see the inner workings of the testers and I really do have a lot of respect for the work several of them have done out of love for the game. I understand how people fel burned by Matrix for how they handled the release and I can't say I blame them. Although this is merely speculation because it was never stated to any of us I feel like WiF became a runaway train with a release that could not have been slowed down for whatever reason. The testers clearly knew it wasn't ready for prime time as several have stated publicly long ago.

There is a lot of hard feelings and blame when it comes to MWiF. I can certainly understand that but I have to give credit to the programmer for sticking to a task that is maybe a bridge too far. Did he under estimate what it would take? Ambiguity does not translate to 1's and 0's.

Will a known system of it's scale and complexity ever be attempted again? I'm not sure. It would be easier to make one from scratch in some ways than to have to conform to an already rigid system never laid out to be done digitally. Who will attempt one again especially considering the super small niche it occupies?

So again, while I can't blame people for being sour at Matrix for the communication and the state of release among other things concerning MWiF, I take no pleasure reading it from people I respect and like here. Hopefully it becomes what people want of it one day.

Maybe I'll stick with it then and finally commit to learning it?
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Grim.Reaper on April 11, 2019, 03:28:44 AM
regardless of the developer, this game will never get praised or played by me.....it is now six years after release.  i certainly blame matrix more than the developer since they never attempted to find a way to make good with people who spent at least a $100 on a game that clearly was years away from release ready and seemed to try and cover it up by saying things would be fixed in short order after release.  no doubt in my mind they knew that was not possible and still didn’t bother to refund or do anything to make situation fair, they simply stopped talking about it and slipped away besides the developer.  the look and feel of the game even back then felt like ancient technology (think they use borland development tools the were popular back in the 1990s) so cant imagine it will even age well.

people certainly can support them and even buy it now on sale, but this purchase was my single worse experience from matrix and has made me pause ever since on making a lot more purchases from them.  all they had to do was be honest and somehow make good with the customers and i probably would have forgiven.  heck, they could have simply given a 30% off coupon for to people for something else which they now freely give away annually..., but even something that small would have gone a long way.

sure i have bought things since from matrix, but i would have bought more and thought less about it if they would have handled better.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: smittyohio on April 11, 2019, 05:20:36 AM
sure i have bought things since from matrix, but i would have bought more and thought less about it if they would have handled better.

Since this debacle, I don't think I've bought a single full-priced game from them, partly out of spite... everything has been either from their holiday sale, or random Fanatical / Humble bundle stuff.
Title: Re: Matrix World in Flames
Post by: Pete Dero on April 11, 2019, 09:10:20 AM
Are asynch PBEM games possible? or just "real-time"?

After Action Report for NetPlay Ready

part 1 http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4616601&mpage=1&key=%26%2365533%3B
part 2 http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4617004
part 3 http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=4617528

For communicating with each other during game play, we used Skype. It is a free download and worked very well for us. NetPlay as implemented in Matrix Games World in Flames (MWIF) handles all the communications between the two computers, each of which runs its own copy of the program and maintains it own internal copy of the “game state”.

When one player moves a unit, NetPlay sends a message to a Matrix Games NetPlay server, which forwards it to the other player’s computer. The other player’s computer then updates its copy of the game state. This keeps the computers in synch as to what is happening in the game. Because MWIF uses the NetPlay server, neither players’ computer needs to act as a ‘master’ or ‘slave’.

There are some phases of the game where the players make decisions simultaneously. For example, that happens during the Production phases and when deciding whether air units fly as fighters or bombers. The way NetPlay handles those phases is that it collects all the decisions, and once both players have finished the phase or subphase, NetPlay sends the decisions en masse to the other computer. Play then resumes as usual.