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Digital Gaming => Computer Gaming => Topic started by: Jarhead0331 on September 23, 2018, 04:33:40 AM

Title: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Jarhead0331 on September 23, 2018, 04:33:40 AM
I'm going through somewhat of a gaming rut at the moment and I was going through my extensive list of steam games when I was struck by something...there were so many early access titles that were development failures. Some had struggled on for years, dying violent deaths despite great perseverance by their developers, others had gone out with a whimper, with updates becoming fewer and farther in between, and finally some never really even got off the ground. They were released with great promise and then the developer was never heard from again.

It's hard for me to conclude that early access has been a good trend for the industry. I think overall, it has drastically reduced the quality of releases and actually incentivizes developers to abandon their project if early sales do not meet their expectations. Although there is a significant short term benefit to the player (ie. Instant gratification}, the long term net result is often disappointment and frustration.

There are, of course, many exceptions. But I'm finding that after a long successful early access period, most usually when a game exits EA reaching a 1.0 release, I've already burned out on the experience and seen most of what the game has to offer. For example, take a highly polished EA title like Subnautica. This is a fantastic game of discovery and exploration that had a very long, but active EA cycle. I must have put dozens and dozens of hours into it throughout the EA period. When it actually exited EA, there wasn't much excitement for me because I had already explored its deepest darkest depths. I honestly don't think I've put in more than an hour or two since release. Sad.

In any event. What are your thoughts on EA?

Discuss.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Grim.Reaper on September 23, 2018, 04:42:17 AM
I am still a big fan of EA.....guess I have been fairly lucky since I haven't really bought into an EA game that I would consider a complete failure or abandoned.  However, I do agree with your point about whether when the game is actually released if I play it much after that.  Not sure that is necessarily because of EA for me since I do typically have a short attention span anyway even for fully released games.  I am sure some developers do abandon early and in some cases quality questionable, I just try and be selective in the ones I reasonably believe will have some success.  I don't dabble in a ton of the indie games so maybe that is why I have had a little more luck.  And in some cases it doesn't hurt that they give some decent discounts for buying in early:)

Plus, I am sure if I go through my list of games, I would likely find that many games that weren't even in EA were total flops and bug ridden......Matrix World in Flames I am looking squarely right at you:)
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Jarhead0331 on September 23, 2018, 04:53:36 AM
^good points. It is true that most of the games on my list that have failed during EA are indie titles. I do have a tendency to search for new and obscure indie games with new ideas and mechanics. Although these games almost always start off with promise, I'm finding they never receive the publicity and therefore funding needed to get them out of EA.

Steam has created a great platform for new games to get into people's hands, but their system that gets games onto the front page so people can find them does no favors for the little guys.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Grim.Reaper on September 23, 2018, 05:01:17 AM
Yep, agree with that....I don't take much chances with the "little guys", not because they are little, just typically those games don't interest me as much.  And with Steam being so huge right now, I never take the time to search the catalog, mostly what I see is from the front store page and recommendations......and quite honestly, most of the other ones I check out are because people on this board mention them, which I really appreciate since it allows me to see some different things.

In the end it will always come down to personal choice and I don't see them going away anytime soon.....but I certainly understand people's concerns and frustrations.

Now if we could do away with the loot crap and games that lock content (without any way to unlock per my own choice for a game I bought), then I would be heaven:)
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Nefaro on September 23, 2018, 07:06:43 AM
There is also the occasional EA title that gets labeled as officially released only to find that the developer decided to end that EA title and continue working on it in the form of a sequel.  Add a "2" on the end, get people to buy it once more.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Destraex on September 23, 2018, 09:26:19 AM
I agree, I am pretty much over early access for a lot of the games I have invested early in. The ones I choose generally don't fail. But either take too long or I simply burn out on them before release. Thus early access releases can be like flash in the pan style affairs. People generally come back for release of patches or the game and then disappear again. This was pretty much what my other thread earlier today was about. Games you love the concept of but are still coming.

War of rights as well as star citizen get a special mention in this category. Naval Action as well.
Post Scriptum and holdfast nations at war. All very good concepts and good fun to play in early access but feature incomplete and glacial during development. Some of these games are already over 5 years in the following.

Now of course we have laws in the eu coming about early access.

Call to Arms actually is a great game but one that confused me a little when they went free to play on all the supporters.

You certainly have to be careful and I can also think of a few titles as mentioned above that have taken money and then gone right for number 2. Dcs is another good example. Invest in ww2 aircraft to find the experience is top notch but the content is not enough to keep a population. Again things are glacially slow.

I have to think long and hard about early access these days.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: DennisS on September 23, 2018, 09:52:15 AM
I have a lot of early access games on my steam account. Not surprisingly, as my total is somewhere north of 270.

There appears to be several different paths EA games take. Here's my take:

1 - Take the money and run. Towns! is a perfect example of this. No activity, period, after the initial sales. Last forum discussion post was in 2016. Game for sale for $15, and with slowly dropping reviews. If you see a game with under 50% popularity, it wasn't always that low, but it IS a sign that the gaming community has gotten disenchanted with the developer.

2 - My dad has cancer, and my dog ate my flash drive with my one copy of all the code. YEARS may pass with no updates.

3 - NO. You may NOT have this critical feature. Perfect Golf, rebranded to Jack Nicklaus golf, promised a course developer for THREE FULL YEARS. This "course forge" or "CF", was asked about constantly, week after week since 2015. There were issues with the person that owned the rights to the graphics for the trees..and rather than pay for these assets, the devs thought it would be fun to just string people along. The remains the ONLY forum that I am banned from. (except for Derek Smart's, but that doesn't count, and is thoroughly understandable).

4 - Game needs a re-write - SQUIRREL. Automation will eventually be a brilliant game on auto design and production. I own it, and have been waiting patiently for the campaign version. Killrob, the developer, IS brilliant, and IS working hard on the game, but he is in version three of the campaign, which hasn't been released yet. There is an excellent game there, but it hasn't been released except as an alpha. Promised completion is like the sign in a bar. "FREE BEER, TOMORROW." You show up tomorrow, and they say...free beer, tomorrow, just like the sign says. I really shouldn't throw shade at Killrob..this will be one of the finest games on the market, period, if it ever gets done.

5 - Well...what happened here? A decent game with promise gets purchased, flaws are noted, game gets put away, and shelved. Months later, a polished and just ... EXCELLENT, fully fleshed game shows up. Rise of Industry, hands down. If you don't have this game, go get this game. Secondary nod to Railway Empires, thirdly nod to Mashinky.

As I am fully retired now, I am spending an increasing amount of time with my first love, board war games. If it's a solitaire game, I am aware of it. If I have even a small interest in the genre, I already own it. Today, I will go out and purchase Isreali Air Force Leader, and Nightfighter Ace, if I can find it. Life is good!!!!!
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Toonces on September 23, 2018, 10:29:45 AM
Timely post.  I finally got my gaming rig set up so last night I sat down with ye olde mouse and a snifter of scotch and started browsing my Steam catalog.  For some reason, your exact thoughts, JH, ran through my head as I browsed my library.  Two games in particular stuck out: Of Kings and Men and DayZ.  Of Kings is a perfect example of a cash grab.  The game was really neat in EA and had great promise.  Then the devs just shut the doors, took the money, and left everyone with a partially developed game.  It is infuriating. 

DayZ...wow, I haven't even opened it in years.  The store page even says it's in Alpha.  The comments section for the game is pretty funny, a lot of posts about how they purchased the game while they were in high school and now are through college and at a job and the game is still in Alpha.

I'm sure there are many others in my library. 

At this point, I really am reluctant to go in on EA.  For me, I have so many unplayed games in my backlog, there really is no reason to jump on an EA bandwagon.  I've got plenty to keep me occupied.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Rayfer on September 23, 2018, 11:59:54 AM
My worthless two-cents...I have no interest in EA.  It's like gambling...put your money in the slot-machine, pull the handle and sometimes you win but too often you lose.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: -budd- on September 23, 2018, 12:08:15 PM
I really don't mind EA games, and i'm careful what i buy into. Seems most of my EA games are of the survival type games, some open world, some not. These types of games seem to lend themselves pretty well to the EA process, some game types for me just don't, open world survival especially fits the EA process well. I've learned to put down some EA games as to not spoil the story, The Forest comes to mind. I've put down The Forest, Subnautica, PAMELA, and no i haven't got back to the Forest or Subnautica since release, but i will..........well that's the plan anyway ::). I just not sure any of that matters anyway, bottom line i guess is if you feel you got your moneys worth out of the game no matter where its at in the development process. I think the fact that my attention span is defiantly shorter for games and that there's very little new under the sun in gaming these days and i'm reaching critical mass in game ownership equals a lot of been there, done that. Most of my EA games are small or solo development teams, these types of development teams seem to appreciate the implied trust in the EA process. They update regularly and keep contact with the community. I look at new games, EA and otherwise and when i find something i realize i already have something similar sitting in my library un-played, and not even installed.

Maybe we shouldn't think so much about it, and just enjoy each gaming session as it happens with whatever game we choose.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Toonces on September 23, 2018, 12:25:36 PM
Heh.  I was just browsing SimHQ for the first time in about a year.  The DCS forum is always good for cheap entertainment.  But the relevance to this thread is it reminded me of how many DCS modules I've bought that are still incomplete.   
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: JasonPratt on September 23, 2018, 04:48:20 PM
Some Early Access games fall into yet another category: the finished Alphas. These are games which are essentially complete game experiences, and sufficiently playable for a full game, but where the developer keeps adding new things (as well as ongoing bug patching and optimization, sometimes as a result of the new things breaking the game somewhat). They'd be otherwise fully released games, except for regularly adding new content, thus deserving the Alpha designation.

7 Days to Die, Fortresscraft: Evolved, and ARK: Survival Evolved are good examples of these, as well as (arguably) Empyrion -- Galactic Survival (which might lack too much planned content yet to count). Keeping in mind that 7DtD was never meant to have a game-completion state (and their new content updates have slowed down a lot).

I gather than Kenshi, which I backed what seems like 10 years ago as an Alpha on Gamersgate, also fits this criteria -- when I bought it, it was such a broken mess I've never felt the slightest desire to go back. But in the past year I've heard a lot of praise for it.

In another way, Man-o-war: Corsair counts, since the devs are still roadmapping new material (thus Alpha status) even though it's "officially" released. But then again, it may be abandoned.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: joram on September 23, 2018, 06:33:39 PM
Nice summary Dennis.  I was wondering which titles people felt were failures vs successes (and everything in between)
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: mikeck on September 23, 2018, 06:56:12 PM
I like the idea of early access and many titles have done quite well with it. For example, Endless Space 2. I bought early access, the dev took note of bugs and play-issues, incorporated fixes and then released a final finished copy.

BUT, there are too many devs who create games that live in "early access perpetuity". Games like Naval Action and Predestination. They are in early access for years and years while the developers are able to deflect complaints. Players complain that they bought a game 4 years ago and it's atill a mess to which the Devs respond: "it's in early access". So yeah, I don't appreciate being sold an unfinished product that will never be finished under the guise of early access.

I liked the idea overall. Even the best beta testing can't uncover the game play problems that thousands of players can. And hell, who DOESNT like getting a game early? But I would Like to see some type of steam policy whereby a game gets no more than 1 year in early access. Once the game leaves early access and is released, then the Steam return policy kicks in as if you had JUST purchase it. That way, if they release the game from early access but it's still not finished, I can get a refund.

There is NO excuse for Naval Action and Predestination. Games that have barely advanced in years and seem to use "early access" as merely a tool to allow them to collect money while they fail to have to release a finished game
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: JasonPratt on September 23, 2018, 07:35:37 PM
Agreed so hard!! -- early access should be like a paid demo. The refund clock doesn't start until it goes to full release, and up until then refunds should be available for any reason.

The funds should be held in escrow, in a Money Market Account bearing some decent interest (by MMA standards). No one gets to use the funds otherwise until the game releases. It's too easy for developers to abuse the prepay system.

But of course Steam has no motivation to do that unless and until customers stop buying EA out of a general lack of confidence. Even a class action suit would be useless, since Steam protects itself up front by warning customers there may never be a useful final product.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: jomni on September 23, 2018, 08:06:09 PM
Jason that defeats the purpose of EA (crowdfunding). Devs need money to survive. If they are held in escrow, might as well not go though EA in the first place.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: JasonPratt on September 23, 2018, 08:38:50 PM
What's that shruggy smile ascii set?

If it's a side project, then they have other work (or they're at college and working or whatever), and they have other ways to survive.

If it's a business, then they should treat their endeavors like a legitimate business, and borrow capital to pay back from their success (and/or save up capital from doing other things to work their project with). The most successful EAs have been either relatively simple projects that can be worked on by a few people in their spare time (category one), and so who don't need reward before they finish; or they've done enough work already to provide an entertaining finished-enough project worth buying outright which they can build off of, and so have a product to actually sell already. (I can think of one project which combines both methods: the original Fortresscraft mod of Minecraft.) The first isn't a solid business model but it isn't supposed to be either. It's a hobby that might pay off eventually. The second is a solid business model that uses funds previously acquired by other means and/or by a method that encourages work to pay the initial money back.

The abuse comes from acquiring the prior funds from the end users. Once they've reaped the harvest early, they have no business motivation to grow the crop for the eventual harvest. They may have other motives like ethical honor and/or artistic drive to continue, but they can only have business motivation to continue if they want to move on to another project -- in which case the main motivation will be to move on to the next project as soon as possible to collect the prepaid money on that one. Which leads to a temptation to call it quits on the current project unfinished.

(I suppose business motivation might split the difference and go for developing DLC instead of finishing the current game. ARK has taken some flack for leading the way in doing that... ;) )

Of course, the early prepay on a very unfinished project with promises to finish it, works great in the short run. And after all, caveat emptor: it's a way of getting around the refund system, hoping people are more likely to wait on a promise of initial quality or concept until it's too late to get their money back. Shady capitalism is still capitalism. From a pragmatic standpoint I can't fault the strategy of an early full harvest without necessarily putting in the full work to get the harvest! -- so long as it works! The buyers bear the brunt of the cost-result differential, not the developers. And so long as no promises are legally made, and legal warnings are given that there may be no payoff, then so long as people are willing to risk their cash, then the market functions. Just like buying lottery tickets.

Neither Steam nor the devs can have any motivation to do something different, and I'm not in favor of forcing them to do so legally somehow. But the market is as the market does, and if the market dries up then they'll either have to change practices or quit.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: DennisS on September 23, 2018, 09:52:27 PM
Quote from: mikeck on September 23, 2018, 06:56:12 PM
I like the idea of early access and many titles have done quite well with it. For example, Endless Space 2. I bought early access, the dev took note of bugs and play-issues, incorporated fixes and then released a final finished copy.

BUT, there are too many devs who create games that live in "early access perpetuity". Games like Naval Action and Predestination. They are in early access for years and years while the developers are able to deflect complaints. Players complain that they bought a game 4 years ago and it's atill a mess to which the Devs respond: "it's in early access". So yeah, I don't appreciate being sold an unfinished product that will never be finished under the guise of early access.

I liked the idea overall. Even the best beta testing can't uncover the game play problems that thousands of players can. And hell, who DOESNT like getting a game early? But I would Like to see some type of steam policy whereby a game gets no more than 1 year in early access. Once the game leaves early access and is released, then the Steam return policy kicks in as if you had JUST purchase it. That way, if they release the game from early access but it's still not finished, I can get a refund.

There is NO excuse for Naval Action and Predestination. Games that have barely advanced in years and seem to use "early access" as merely a tool to allow them to collect money while they fail to have to release a finished game

Naval Action remains the game on my 270+ Steam games listing that has the most hours. Several hundred hours. But....I tried firing it up the other day, after a full year or two, and just couldn't understand the game mechanics. I am told that instead of several hundred players on the server at one time, you might find ... 10. Seriously. Why bother?
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: GaryMc on September 23, 2018, 10:10:28 PM
I've honestly had little interest in Early Access games ever.  Even in the rare games I've Kickstarted, I've not messed with it until the full release. (I think I played 20 minutes of the first Beta Battletech build I had access to, then didn't come back until the real game came out.)

I would rather wait for a complete experience, and then decide if I want to throw my money at it.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: mikeck on September 23, 2018, 10:30:20 PM
I don't think it needs to be held in escrow. Give the devs the cash. But start the "return clock" when the game is released and not when I bought early access.
I'm sure there is a concern that- by then- people will be tired of playing and refund it but I don't think so. You give people a quality game and most wont return it even if they are tired of it.

I doubt the cash steam pays back for returns would be higher than the income from all the sold games. If it is, then that dev is done on steam

BUT, like Jason said, it's about $$. I'm not being sarcastic when I say that Capitalism is probably the greatest invention in history. Capitalism has brought more people and more societies out of true poverty than anything else. It's responsible for most of the things we own and rely on. The disadvantage is that companies generally don't do the right thing...they do the thing that lessens $$loss or increases $gain.

So until Steam concludes that they would make more money clamping down on the perpetual early access crap, they won't.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: JasonPratt on September 24, 2018, 07:09:42 AM
Quote from: mikeck on September 23, 2018, 10:30:20 PM
I don't think it needs to be held in escrow. Give the devs the cash. But start the "return clock" when the game is released and not when I bought early access.
I'm sure there is a concern that- by then- people will be tired of playing and refund it but I don't think so. You give people a quality game and most wont return it even if they are tired of it.

The problem is that if the money isn't held in escrow somehow, it won't be around to make refunds with. What's guaranteeing the refund? Steam credit?
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Dammit Carl! on September 24, 2018, 07:10:29 AM
I'm "meh," on the issue: if there is something that piques my interest, then I'll probably go ahead and get onboard with the Early Access game knowing full and well that it may or may not actually become a full release at the end of the day.  I know it can be a crap shoot, but what the hell.

Having said that, I don't blindly buy something without: 1. seeing reviews of it first. 2. seeing if the developers themselves are adding to the game as it supposedly progresses (and listening to customer feedback). and 3. asking myself if I really, really would like the game or am I just following the crowd with the "Oooh! New and Shiny," buzz that generally occurs.

Note: on point #3 above, admittedly, I did kind of jump with the crowd in getting Scum around two to three weeks ago (and it's been a fun game) so I'm not all "Mr. Tight-With-His-Money-And-Not-A-Crowd-Follower," all the time.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Anguille on September 24, 2018, 08:54:49 AM
I am usually not very much into EA games as i prefer to have a complete game (otherwise it's beta testing).

For Master of Orion Conquer the Stars, i think the EA was a big mistake because the opinion of the players was already made during EA. In the first release, the AI was very weak. By the time the game for released as complete, many had already skipped the game.

On the other hand, for Oriental Empires, less people started to play the game and it was already feature complete.

Imho, never go in EA if you're not feature complete. Overall, i think it's better to do a larger beta-testing.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: bboyer66 on September 24, 2018, 08:57:48 AM
 Really don't feel like I have been burned when it comes to Early Access. My usual policy is to buy now during the discount, and play later. Games like Prison Architect, Subnautica,PUBG, Darkest Dungeon, The Forest, Don't Starve, Kerbal Space Program, are really enjoyable. Have not played the Long Dark since it came out of early access, but looking forward to it.

The only game that I really felt like I got burned on, was The Mandate, which was on Kickstarter. That was the first and last time I backed a PC game on kickstarter.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Boggit on September 24, 2018, 06:23:49 PM
I think I've been lucky in the main with early access - Rimworld, Oriental Empires (before release), and Medieval Kingdoms have all had regular updates and were pretty solid builds anyway.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: ArizonaTank on September 24, 2018, 08:41:05 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 23, 2018, 04:48:20 PM
Some Early Access games fall into yet another category: the finished Alphas.....

7 Days to Die,

Keeping in mind that 7DtD was never meant to have a game-completion state (and their new content updates have slowed down a lot).


+1

I have had a ton of fun on 7DTD...I am ashamed to admit how many hours of my life I have put into it....but what fun!  I never even noticed that the game is in "alpha". I think I paid $15 for it years ago... 
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: ArizonaTank on September 24, 2018, 10:00:23 PM
Having spent several years in the software industry (many moons ago)...I used to fret about the breakdown of the dev cycle (what does "alpha" or "beta" really mean anymore?) and the lack of coding and business discipline in the Steam model.

But these days, to paraphrase of the 2nd title to Dr. Strangelove; "I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love Early Access"

"Early Access" is here because of the changes in technology and the neediness of the market. Gamers have no patience and want it now...but they don't want junk either. The combination of Steam for distribution, and easy to use game engines make easy access a no brainer.

Technology definitely drives the dev cycle for consumer software. 30 years ago, a software company didn't have much room for error on first release.  The best way to get patches out was on an omnibus CD-ROM, or maybe if the patch was small enough, you could put it on a public bulletin board for download over a 1200 baud modem. Under those circumstances, a strict dev cycle made a bunch of sense. Getting the initial release wrong meant you were punished by the market severely.

Still, even 30 years ago, there were bad developers and awful games. There were folks producing trash, and taking the money and running...bad actors in game development are not new. 

Now we have early access. The technology allows it, and users are OK with mediocrity as long as it satisfies the "give it to me now" impulse. 

IMHO Early access as we know it will be around until the technology changes.

And...I think that technolgy change is just around the corner.

Machine learning and machine written software is coming in a big way. In 10 years we will start to see big changes in the way games are developed and distributed.

In 40 years, boutique "artists" will be the only humans able to earn a living in "programming". 

The entire concept of software, distribution and the dev cycle will be toast.

AI will be doing the coding, and doing it on the fly.  Players will probably "order" their own custom feature sets and have those custom built on the spot. Think about the Star Trek holodeck. You walk in, and tell it what kind of experience you want.  Gosh knows what kind of platform we will be playing on...but please oh please let it be a holodeck... Only really old guys like me will even remember that "early access" ever existed.




Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: mikeck on September 25, 2018, 12:41:08 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 24, 2018, 07:09:42 AM
Quote from: mikeck on September 23, 2018, 10:30:20 PM
I don't think it needs to be held in escrow. Give the devs the cash. But start the "return clock" when the game is released and not when I bought early access.
I'm sure there is a concern that- by then- people will be tired of playing and refund it but I don't think so. You give people a quality game and most wont return it even if they are tired of it.

The problem is that if the money isn't held in escrow somehow, it won't be around to make refunds with. What's guaranteeing the refund? Steam credit?

That's what I mentioned further down. At release, the devs sand steam are making more money off new sales. THAT  money would be used for refunds. Yes, it is possible that so many people will want refunds vs those who purchase on release and do not but that would mean the game is a disaster and Steam takes a loss.

I just don't see how escrow works here. Money in escrow can't be used. Yet the whole purpose for early access is to raise money to continue developing.
If I can't get to that money, why do it?
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: RyanE on September 25, 2018, 09:56:04 AM
Frankly, EA is just so open to financial abuse.  In the real world, investors invest on potential.  But the risk they take is balance by the potential returns.  In EA, the risk is low and the return is a functioning game.  But there is no transparency on what the devs are doing with the money.  I think every EA on Steam should have a simple business plan that shows where the money is going, a detailed dev timeline, and simple cashflow analysis.

This would let Steam force some simple discipline on a dev to have a plan before asking for money.  And EA customers could have some a real and validated plan for their own decision.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: Philippe on September 25, 2018, 10:46:03 AM
While I sympathize with the idea behind this, I'm not sure that making Steam more powerful than it already is would be such a good idea.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: RyanE on September 25, 2018, 01:26:16 PM
I don't see how that gives Steam any more power.  They already have approval of anything on their site, including EA.  It protects them from some limited liability, but also might potentially limit their revenue.
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: mikeck on September 25, 2018, 01:53:04 PM
Maybe the best way to handle this is the way I would almost always prefer: let the market decide. People know that an early access product may never be properly developed. The buyer decides whether or not to take that risk based on cost, reputation of the developer, etc.  If it ends up in early access purgatory, then too bad..you lost free-market bingo
Title: Re: Here Lies Early Access. RIP
Post by: airboy on September 25, 2018, 04:12:51 PM
Quote from: GaryMc on September 23, 2018, 10:10:28 PM
I've honestly had little interest in Early Access games ever.  Even in the rare games I've Kickstarted, I've not messed with it until the full release. (I think I played 20 minutes of the first Beta Battletech build I had access to, then didn't come back until the real game came out.)

I would rather wait for a complete experience, and then decide if I want to throw my money at it.

^ What he said.

If you buy early access you are buying a promise to complete - in part.  Not everyone keeps their promises.