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In early July, 1943 for the last time as equal combatants; German and Soviet forces fought one of World War 2's most pivotal battles at Kursk in Southern Russia. The battle was to be the zenith for Germany; it was never to drive the initiative in the East again. Kursk was to be the first time that the Russians stopped a German summer offensive before it had achieved its strategic aims and more significantly build their own operation where there was a clear defensive and offensive phase. The German attack was but Act I in the Russian plan.
Battles of Kursk – Southern Flank is the first release in John Tiller's Panzer Battles series. With a focus on the more climactic southern attack, players will understand why both sides viewed the battle as a victory; though many would consider it pyrrhic. Fought across nine days from July 4th to July 12th the battle was much more than the imagined storming of a fortified line. Meeting engagements, hasty defences and even the first widespread use of tank busting aircraft were more typical of the day to day fighting. Both side deployed their countries elite forces. The Germans fielded their carefully reconstituted Panzer forces, led by the II SS Panzerkorps. The Soviets deployed the armies that had recently crushed the German 6th Army at Stalingrad, newly replenished and promoted to Guards honorifics.
Scenarios
Battles of Kursk – Southern Flank includes 60 scenarios ranging from 5 turns to 38 turns in length. All nine days of battle are covered with a good mix of small (battalion/regiment), medium (division) and large (corps) engagements.
July 4th; XXXXVIII Panzerkorps preliminary attacks – 2 scenarios
July 5th; II SS Panzerkorps – 4 scenarios
July 5th; III Panzerkorps – 4 scenarios
July 5th; XXXXVIII Panzerkorps – 6 scenarios
July 6th; II SS Panzerkorps – 7 scenarios
July 7th; III Panzerkorps – 6 scenarios
July 7th; XXXXVIII Panzerkorps – 1 scenarios
July 8th; Voronezh Front – 9 scenarios
July 9th; XXXXVIII Panzerkorps – 7 scenarios
July 10th; II SS Panzerkorps – 6 scenarios
July 11th; II SS Panzerkorps – 4 scenarios
July 12th; Voronezh & Steppe Fronts – 4 scenarios
Just under half of all the scenarios are less than 15 turns in length and can be comfortably played in an hour or so.
Features
Game features include:
--A game scale of 1 hex equal to 250 meters, 1 turn equal to 30 minutes, with platoon and section size units.
--60 Scenarios – covering all sizes and situations, including specialized versions for both head to head play and vs. the computer AI.
--The Master Map covers 102,000 hexes covering the area of the German attacks and the initial Soviet counterattacks. 45 sub maps are included.
--An Order of Battle with over 15,800 units from two Soviet Fronts and a German Army Group including units from Wehrmacht, SS, and Luftwaffe formations as well as Guards and regular Russian Army units.
--Unit component, Order-of-Battle and Scenario Editors which allow players to customize the game.
--Sub-map feature allowing any of the included maps to be "chopped" up into smaller segments for custom scenario creation.
--All new map graphics with 3D overlay to improve height perception. --Fortifications and other icons are integrated into the game map.
--Three different counter sets switchable in game including side on, top down and NATO symbols.
--All new images for unit art for both sides, including infantry, guns and vehicles.
--Exceptional Documentation including a 57 page 'Visual order of Battle' and 84 page 'Designer notes'.
--Battles of Kursk – Southern Flank provides multiple play options including play against the computer AI, Play by E-mail (PBEM), LAN & Internet "live" play, and two player hot seat.
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PzB Kursk can be only purchased directly from the JTS store located here: http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html (http://www.johntillersoftware.com/PanzerBattles/BattlesOfKurskSouthern.html)
Instant buy when I get home.
Also, is SB:Grenada going to be a full release, or is it just a free demo?
I've never played any of the John Tiller titles, but looking at this makes me think I'm about to break that rule -- and at $40 seems incredibly reasonable for what you're getting --
Also, love the scale. Squad-based hex games have never really been my thing, and getting kinda tired of the large-scale division-sized chit shufflers a la WitE. This looks perfect.
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on February 28, 2014, 11:41:10 AM
Also, is SB:Grenada going to be a full release, or is it just a free demo?
As far as I am aware of, it will just be a free Demo.
Are the 2D counters really any bigger? Do they scale (keep the same size) with different screen rez?
Tempted by this...but I'm just not sure. It looks pretty huge
Do the units have different ranges? Tanks can shoot from so many hexes away.. infantry soft and hard?
Judge: contrary to a Panzer Campaigns title, the numerous small scenarios really are small as in: often less than ~50 friendly units, sometimes barely over a dozen.
The turn limits of some of those scenarios are...tight to say the least, but I'm having a lot of fun thus far. It's easier to get into than PzC I'd say. It has a different feel and "flows" more naturally. The game gives you the feeling that even your battalion- or regiment sized operation matters, unlike PzC where it could sometimes be intimidating that you knew your corps in the medium sized scenario was part of a much greater offensive and that your actions might not really influence it.
The feedback of what I'm doing feels more tactical/operational in PB. In PzC, operational scale scenarios often still felt like a somewhat smaller strategic scale scenario in terms of how it played and what you had to do.
-
Tuna: yes, units have different ranges. The max range of a Tiger is several kilometres, but there's a modifier that decreases damage with each hex beyond 2 hexes so even though the mmg variant of the MG 34 with tripod can theoretically also fire at a target 1 kilometre away, it's unlikely to do more than kill a single unlucky Ivan at that range. If you really want to kill something with infantry weapons, you need to get within 2 hexes. I haven't tried tank combat yet, but I'm guessing that engagement ranges above 1 kilometres are fairly pointless for the Soviets and that the Germans also prefer to hit their targets at 1 kilometre tops in order to be able to do some damage.
There's also a new mechanic for the now unlimited opportunity fire where you can roughly set the range you want your units to engage the enemy at, which can be used to ambush the enemy.
You can get I believe either nearly all or all documentation for free from the store page, so you can read some of the documents at your leisure to see if the rules are your cup of tea before buying.
I always thought PzC was too big.. this might be just right!
Bought. Damn it I am one weak willed p*ssy!
Played a couple of battles this evening. I really like some of the improvements they brought to the game. The map and counters are a really nice improvement.
I would still like to see the top bar buttons be a little larger and one more zoom level.
what's tiller's store using for DRM these days? I have only bought Tiller's stuff at HPS. This scale looks up my alley.
Serial number activation.
Quote from: Bison on March 01, 2014, 11:31:07 PM
Serial number activation.
You skipped a little detail...
Online Serial Number Activation. :)
Quote from: Bison on March 01, 2014, 09:54:25 PM
I would still like to see the top bar buttons be a little larger and one more zoom level.
The button/icon size has been an issue for me before in the other Tiller games. They seem so small.
Quote from: jomni on March 01, 2014, 11:45:30 PM
Quote from: Bison on March 01, 2014, 11:31:07 PM
Serial number activation.
You skipped a little detail...
Online Serial Number Activation. :)
I think it's just 1 time after install though. Not the best but very far from the worst unless you happen to be reinstalling from disk during a net outage. Some smart phones will let you turn on a personal hotspot long enough to register a game so there is that.
Yes it's a one time online activation. They used to have a 2 computer limit, but iirc they did away with that limitation.
must get pc fixed...
Quote from: Bison on March 02, 2014, 08:56:39 AM
Yes it's a one time online activation. They used to have a 2 computer limit, but iirc they did away with that limitation.
No, I think they had a one computer limit and increased it to two.
Any chance for a demo version, in a near, forseeable future?
This is a superb game. I'm loving it.
That's a really good looking game.
Let's bring that to some modern battles and I might even buy one, despite my negativity towards the interface.
Sounds good that people enjoying...I would jump in, but the subject matter doesn't interest me...hope they use it for other areas of battles.
The artwork looks better than previous stuff. Glad they're improving such things.
Quote from: Zulu1966 on March 02, 2014, 12:55:51 PM
Quote from: Bison on March 02, 2014, 08:56:39 AM
Yes it's a one time online activation. They used to have a 2 computer limit, but iirc they did away with that limitation.
No, I think they had a one computer limit and increased it to two.
I had heard that they dropped the activation limit but I don't know that for sure. I sent an e-mail to JTSC for clarification. I'll let you know when I find out something.
Does anybody know whether you retain the ability to download the game from the Tiller site or just during a short purchase window?
I heard back from JTSC - there's no longer an activation limit.
Quote from: Al on March 02, 2014, 09:13:14 PM
I heard back from JTSC - there's no longer an activation limit.
So is it now online or offline?
Quote from: Rizik6 on March 02, 2014, 09:05:21 PM
Does anybody know whether you retain the ability to download the game from the Tiller site or just during a short purchase window?
Just send support a message with your order information and they'll send you a new dl link.
Thanks.
Quote from: jomni on March 02, 2014, 09:18:39 PM
Quote from: Al on March 02, 2014, 09:13:14 PM
I heard back from JTSC - there's no longer an activation limit.
So is it now online or offline?
Online on install
Quote from: JudgeDredd on February 28, 2014, 03:27:34 PM
Tempted by this...but I'm just not sure. It looks pretty huge
There are some huge scenarios (a whole Panzer Korps...pretty huge). The biggest I've been playing is division-size and that seems plenty big enough.
Are the 2D counters and buttons any larger than the Panzer Campaign games? Do the graphics scale with different monitor resolutions?
Anybody up for a PBEM of Panzer Battles?
DicedT,
I'll give you a go, still learning the system though so I can't guarantee a real challenge.
Mike
send me a private message with your email
SgtRock: it looks fine on my 24" widescreen monitor. The buttons are the same size, but I find them to be big enough. The counters are the same size as in PzC on maximum zoom, but they're "smoother" and easier to identify.
Lots of NATO counters can make the map look a bit too functional and cold in my opinion, so I'm very happy that they've included counters with the unit type's graphical depiction on it (the one which would normally be in the sidebar) either as a frontal view (like in the sidebar) or top down.
A comparison between the looks of the Gertsovka scenario in PB: Kursk South and the city of Kalinin in Moscow '42 (with map mod and formation colour identification on the counters), both at maximum 2D zoom.
A cynic might say that Tiller's graphics have finally moved on from the '90's.
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I really dig the way the counter graphics combine the NATO symbols with an image. Think I'll have to break down and give this one a try.
I really like the graphical style and this is one of the very few games where I would choose graphical icons over NATO icons.
And it plays great. Turn based has always struck me as a tad unfair, but op-fire helps kind of reduce the benefit of turn based
I really like this game, especially the shorter scenarios. First I thought that the graphics could be a problem that would ruin the joy of playing, but it works fine for a game like this, in fact I like the graphics, it's quite funny I think.
But I miss a + zoom level. I think the icons are too small sometimes, but maybe it's only me.
The older titles are funnier. Especially Squad Battles. The faces still look like this even today.
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The unit graphics are based on historical photographs or models in PB Kursk, according to the developers.
Does anyone know how "Internet Live Play" (from the Product page) works? Does JTS have a game server?
I have been messing with a PanzerBlitz graphic update for Panzer Battles.
I did tabs for carrying and transporting too. Plus I made a wreak counter and changed the counter to a board like
style and modified the colors :)
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How different is gameplay vs Panzer Campaigns titles?
I like your wrecked counters.
QuoteHow different is gameplay vs Panzer Campaigns titles?
A bit more fast-paced as there are no recovery periods due to there being no replacement or refit mechanic. Engagement ranges are longer, particularly for armour. Direct fire does a bit more damage as well, because units are smaller even minor losses can matter.
The Soviets being mostly C quality in many sectors also substantially increases resistance. They don't disrupt after a few shots like a D quality unit. There being no Low Ammo mechanic for non-artillery units also helps units in bunkers survive when isolated.
Some of you guys seem very familiar with Tiller's games. So I thought I would ask...
I only have PzC Tunisia 43 and don't care for it much. I really want to be a fan, but I'm having a hard time. My main problem is just how slow and sort of uneventful it is. I'll try to be brief.
1) In this game, most infantry units move 1-2 hexes per turn even in the absence of enemy units (seems a little slow for the scale, even given soft ground conditions). Lots of scenarios feature long columns of unengaged units, making Movement Phases a rather dreadful prospect. Perhaps the game would be more interesting with longer than 2-hr turns, I dunno.
2) Combat results are a little bland -- a one-hex retreat, followed by a one-hex advance. No overrun combat etc.
3) Battalions begin most scenarios broken down into company and sometimes even platoon components, resulting in unit overload. Combined with 1, this makes for quite a bit of tedium.
4) AI is inadequate in most situations, in Tunisia 43 at least.
5) UI is a little click-heavy, can probably live with this though if some of the other problems didn't exist.
My intention is not to bash PzC. As I said, I really want to love it. But since nobody reviews wargames much or does Youtube Let's Plays and the games are a little pricey, I thought I'd ask here before taking another plunge. My questions are these:
Does PzB have any of these problems?
Are all the other PzC games this slow?
Thanks!
Well, I'd say many PzC are "slow" in the way you mention, aside from the summer ones with clear terrain. In Moscow '42, most infantry units can only move 1 hex per turn. The PzC series has some issues with scale and balance of scenarios compared to balance of the campaign (for example: a guaranteed 1% replacement rate in a campaign means units that "should" be weak can regain strength over time).
In Panzer Battles, the scale is 250 meters per hex with half hour turns. Infantry units can move 3-4 hexes in normal ground conditions and 2 hexes or so in soft ground conditions. Motorized and (half)tracked units can move a substantial distance each turn.
The Corps-sized scenarios in Panzer Battles have a lot of counters, similar to some of the larger PzC scenarios. However, as I posted earlier, the smaller scenarios are genuinely small to medium sized this time, with 50 or so units at most and often far fewer. It's indeed a mix between Squad Battles and PzC from that perspective. I can normally play a turn in 5-10 minutes even in medium sized scenarios, it depends on how many units I want to move and how often the units fire.
It's much less of a "monster game" in terms of number of counters than PzC full campaign scenarios. Corps sized scenarios are still big, but also still manageable.
Quote from: Fonebone on March 10, 2014, 11:14:37 AM
Some of you guys seem very familiar with Tiller's games. So I thought I would ask...
I only have PzC Tunisia 43 and don't care for it much. I really want to be a fan, but I'm having a hard time. My main problem is just how slow and sort of uneventful it is. I'll try to be brief.
1) In this game, most infantry units move 1-2 hexes per turn even in the absence of enemy units (seems a little slow for the scale, even given soft ground conditions). Lots of scenarios feature long columns of unengaged units, making Movement Phases a rather dreadful prospect. Perhaps the game would be more interesting with longer than 2-hr turns, I dunno.
2) Combat results are a little bland -- a one-hex retreat, followed by a one-hex advance. No overrun combat etc.
3) Battalions begin most scenarios broken down into company and sometimes even platoon components, resulting in unit overload. Combined with 1, this makes for quite a bit of tedium.
4) AI is inadequate in most situations, in Tunisia 43 at least.
5) UI is a little click-heavy, can probably live with this though if some of the other problems didn't exist.
My intention is not to bash PzC. As I said, I really want to love it. But since nobody reviews wargames much or does Youtube Let's Plays and the games are a little pricey, I thought I'd ask here before taking another plunge. My questions are these:
Does PzB have any of these problems?
Are all the other PzC games this slow?
Thanks!
The PzCampaign games are slow and extremely so for large scenarios. However for certain campaigns (I'm thinking of France 1914 here), these games are really the only good computer games for that campaign. So for that one (France 1914), I got a good book or two, put on Rokmaninov's all-night vespers and camped out waiting for von Kluck to move the 1st army for Pete's sake. It was quite an experience. Though one I am not anxious to repeat now that I have stopped drinking large amounts of vodka.
The Panzer battles version of these games is pretty different though as ComradeP says.
I've mentioned before that IMO the Panzer Campaign series is really well suited to First World War action. Just hope that France '14 isn't the first...and the last of the series. About the Tunisia game you're probably seeing movement rates about right. The terrain was awful and the weather sucked. You should try playing an eastern front game that takes place during the winter. Then you'd see some really slow movement.
Panzer Battles is really good. I like the scale, the graphics are a lot better and the research is, as usual, very thorough. I'd like to see a title other than eastern front, however.
For those interested, there's a podcast tonight at 8Pm eastern with JT himself. Here's the linky...
http://the-strategy-wargamer.tumblr.com/ (http://the-strategy-wargamer.tumblr.com/)
Quote from: Al on March 10, 2014, 01:47:35 PM
I've mentioned before that IMO the Panzer Campaign series is really well suited to First World War action. Just hope that France '14 isn't the first...and the last of the series. About the Tunisia game you're probably seeing movement rates about right. The terrain was awful and the weather sucked. You should try playing an eastern front game that takes place during the winter. Then you'd see some really slow movement.
Panzer Battles is really good. I like the scale, the graphics are a lot better and the research is, as usual, very thorough. I'd like to see a title other than eastern front, however.
For those interested, there's a podcast tonight at 8Pm eastern with JT himself. Here's the linky...
http://the-strategy-wargamer.tumblr.com/ (http://the-strategy-wargamer.tumblr.com/)
I agree. France 14 is an awesome game. Playing it was the first time I began to see what von Kluck was trying to do and why it was not such a bad idea, given his other options. Plus of course, he thought he had knocked the British Army clean out of the war, whereas in reality they had gone so far as to bring in another whole Corps and were (at that point anyway) building up fast.
Quote from: MengJiao on March 11, 2014, 11:30:37 AM
Quote from: Al on March 10, 2014, 01:47:35 PM
I've mentioned before that IMO the Panzer Campaign series is really well suited to First World War action. Just hope that France '14 isn't the first...and the last of the series. About the Tunisia game you're probably seeing movement rates about right. The terrain was awful and the weather sucked. You should try playing an eastern front game that takes place during the winter. Then you'd see some really slow movement.
Panzer Battles is really good. I like the scale, the graphics are a lot better and the research is, as usual, very thorough. I'd like to see a title other than eastern front, however.
For those interested, there's a podcast tonight at 8Pm eastern with JT himself. Here's the linky...
http://the-strategy-wargamer.tumblr.com/ (http://the-strategy-wargamer.tumblr.com/)
I agree. France 14 is an awesome game. Playing it was the first time I began to see what von Kluck was trying to do and why it was not such a bad idea, given his other options. Plus of course, he thought he had knocked the British Army clean out of the war, whereas in reality they had gone so far as to bring in another whole Corps and were (at that point anyway) building up fast.
+1. As usual well said MengJiao! :)
So I don't know how to use bridging units. I've tried and nothing can cross when I get them next to a river. I can't find anything in the manual except a mention of them. So any idea how you get bridging units to be useful?
Quote from: JudgeDredd on March 12, 2014, 02:17:38 AM
So I don't know how to use bridging units. I've tried and nothing can cross when I get them next to a river. I can't find anything in the manual except a mention of them. So any idea how you get bridging units to be useful?
There should be some bridging action in the menu. I need to test first.
In my version of the manual, it's on page 53 to page 56 (including pontoon bridges). The process is the same as in PzC: move a bridging unit to a hex with a hexside that can be bridged, initiate bridge construction and wait.
Thanks. I probably wasn't thorough enough in my search. I looked for 2 phrases, one of which was bridging.
How do you know a hexside can be bridged? Purely that it has water? I don't see anything in the side details when selecting a hex that say whether it can be bridged or not.
I'll check the manual out tonight. Thanks for the pointer.
Search for "Bridge building" and you should find the right paragraph.
River, stream, gully, canal and anti-tank (presumably: ditch) hexsides can be bridged.
However (and it's an important "however"), I'm guessing the "when an engineer unit has less than 100 men, the probability of completing the bridge is reduced proportionally. In addition, an engineer platoon will have a probability of bridge completion 1/3 that of an engineer company" still applies which makes bridge construction rather slow when all you have is a platoon.
Generally speaking, the shorter scenarios where you have to bridge a river to be able to move tanks to the other side were presumably balanced to make it impossible to do so at least in a timely manner. A German A quality bridge engineer platoon would have something like a 3% chance per turn of completing a bridge.
My look at Panzer Battles: Kursk. https://medium.com/war-is-boring/45f4bde00ec3
Michael
Great review Michael. Thanks for the info.
Easy the best JT series so far.
this is the game thats motivating to get my new pc build underway.
The irony is that it doesn't need a "modern" computer.
yes but I need a new unfried motherboard and cpu. ;)
Anyone know where I can find gameplay video or video AAR for this one?