Massive Apartment Fire in London

[MikeGER]

And I'd figured that it was some Muslims setting a fire. Good thing that I was wrong, though I'm surprised that they don't appear to have thought of it, yet.

when i saw the TV coverage of the tragedy, the mob looks more like a staggering area for secretly political-islam admirers, rounded up with an assortment of all other kind of immigrants (or to be real nasty/cynic: i saw lots of Londoners but not one single 'British')
so they would mostly torch there own multicultural sharia breading cells... that are not the softtarget they are looking for.

[JudgeDredd]

MikeGER - I'm sorry but I find that fucking downright offensive and absolutely does not deserve a place in this thread where we're discussing the deaths - massive death toll - of innocent British people.

Those people were living in Britain. That makes them British in my eyes. Besides - I have no idea (as you do not) how many were actually British (which means, for your information, holding a British Passport signifying British citizenship). You're entitled to think what you think - as am I - but I don't want to see your diatribe about immigration, refugees and muslims outside of the Religion, Politics and Flame Wars forum and I am deeply saddened by your post.

You need to take this shite to the above mentioned forum where you can throw your hatred for all things muslim about (and by the way, you have absolutely NO FUCKING IDEA what religion ANY ONE of those people were).

As if it even fucking matters when there's such a large, unnecessary loss of life.

[Barthheart]

MikeGER - I'm sorry but I find that fucking downright offensive and absolutely does not deserve a place in this thread where we're discussing the deaths - massive death toll - of innocent British people.

Those people were living in Britain. That makes them British in my eyes. Besides - I have no idea (as you do not) how many were actually British (which means, for your information, holding a British Passport signifying British citizenship). You're entitled to think what you think - as am I - but I don't want to see your diatribe about immigration, refugees and muslims outside of the Religion, Politics and Flame Wars forum and I am deeply saddened by your post.

You need to take this shite to the above mentioned forum where you can throw your hatred for all things muslim about (and by the way, you have absolutely NO FUCKING IDEA what religion ANY ONE of those people were).

As if it even fucking matters when there's such a large, unnecessary loss of life.

+1
No need for you to be sorry JD.

[Hofstadter]

And I'd figured that it was some Muslims setting a fire. Good thing that I was wrong, though I'm surprised that they don't appear to have thought of it, yet.

when i saw the TV coverage of the tragedy, the mob looks more like a staggering area for secretly political-islam admirers, rounded up with an assortment of all other kind of immigrants (or to be real nasty/cynic: i saw lots of Londoners but not one single 'British')
so they would mostly torch there own multicultural sharia breading cells... that are not the softtarget they are looking for.

Stormfront might be the forum you're looking for

[Pete Dero]

Our local news reported that the contracters 'saved' 6000 € by not using the fire resistant version of the panels on the outside of the building.

http://www.nieuwsblad.be/cnt/dmf20170616_02928264
[
Google translation :

John Cowley, Director of Omnis Exteriors, confirms to The Telegraph that his company made the panels used in the lining of the London Tower. The companies that renovated Grenfell Tower asked Omnis Exteriors to provide so-called Reynobond PE lining instead of Reynobond FR lining. The PE version consists partly of plastic and is 2 pounds per square meter cheaper than the FR version. However, this latter variant would have been a much safer option, as FR stands for 'fire resistant'. But it is 6,000 euros more expensive.

And still more bad news :

Among those missing are still fifteen children of the same nursery, so the Grenfell Nursery's manager confirms the British media. The children are between six months and four years old. "Many of those children lived in the skyscraper with their parents. Of fifteen of them, however, there is still no trace, "said Shirley Sylvester. "This is just too bad for words, we simply can not handle it. Those children, their parents ... They are also family for us. "

[Ubercat]

And I'd figured that it was some Muslims setting a fire. Good thing that I was wrong, though I'm surprised that they don't appear to have thought of it, yet.

when i saw the TV coverage of the tragedy, the mob looks more like a staggering area for secretly political-islam admirers, rounded up with an assortment of all other kind of immigrants (or to be real nasty/cynic: i saw lots of Londoners but not one single 'British')
so they would mostly torch there own multicultural sharia breading cells... that are not the softtarget they are looking for.

Stormfront might be the forum you're looking for

Is there really no other alternative? We can't simply acknowledge that there are major social problems with mixing western cultures and Islamic saturated/based cultures? You're either peace and love to everyone, indiscriminately, or you're a racist, white supremacist?

I'd call myself an unapologetic culturalist, as opposed to racist, but the term already has a scientific definition. Culturist is also already taken. We might need a new word. All cultures do not have equal value. The way that women and gays are treated all over the Muslim world is abhorrent to me. If the Aztecs were still around, tossing babies off of pyramids and cutting peoples hearts out, I'd have major issues with that as well.

[acctingman]

never mind......

[JudgeDredd]

And I'd figured that it was some Muslims setting a fire. Good thing that I was wrong, though I'm surprised that they don't appear to have thought of it, yet.

Well as you started this with your Muslim statement...

Can I ask you wtf religion had to do with this particular incident? Could you not just have offered your condolences and been on your way? Or perhaps kept you political\religious rhetoric to yourself at the very least?

The fact that you are back here trying to defend what you instigated and what MikeGER jumped on at the very least shows a bad taste in judgement, let alone a window into both your actual characters.

This was a terrible accident with what appears to be 60+ innocent BRITISH people (they were housed here and it was our job to look after them) killed. A lot of those were innocent children with no real understanding of the hate that is propagated around the world.

Perhaps the world - or just the Muslim world -  has turned you into the sceptic that you show here. What a shame for you.

I'm proud to say that regardless of the devious attempts by radicals (of any faith) to turn me against my fellow human has failed drastically. What a shame they've managed it with you.

[Steelgrave]

MOD HAT ON:

As far as we know, we are discussing a tragedy here, not an act of terrorism. There is zero reason for conjecture over the ethnic or cultural makeup of the victims or of the neighborhood, nor what their religion may be. It is insensitive and more suitable for R&P.  Please refrain from any attempts to turn this thread into a political discussion. If you somehow feel the need to explain yourself further or expound upon your beliefs about things yet unknown, take it to R&P.

We are horrified over these events and we feel for our British cousins. Moderator tolerance for coloring outside of these lines will be very low.....

[Ubercat]

I apologize, first for mentioning that my first thought was that it was Muslims, and second for bringing up my position regarding the relative merits of cultures. Both were off topic,  though I believe the first was a perfectly valid first guess considering recent news in Europe. Just now firing up MSN.com, which is my home page, I see that there has been another vehicle running over pedestrians in London. No word yet who did it.   

As for my failure to express sadness over the obvious tragedy of the situation, none of us here know any of the victims. Even in cases where a forum member has suffered a personal loss, I don't post condolences as it seems empty to me, coming from someone only known from a web forum. If I lost my wife or other family member, and I mentioned it here, I don't think I would take any comfort from condolences expressed by my fellow grogheads that I've never met. Gary K might be an exception, as I've at least talked to him over Skype as we played an ASLSK scenario!

[MikeGER]

Steelgrave,
honestly the thread starting about the ongoing tragedy on 6/14 had already moved on from condolences on the first day, (interupted by untactful joke derailing attempt by Starfury) to a discussion of technical aspects and social-political situations leading to lack of fire safety by JD himself on the 16th and its political fallout (and could have been moved to R&P then)
Cat asked on the 17th why the authorities seemed to had outruled any kind of ilsamic-terror so early and if islamists might take the tragedy as a blueprint for possible future attack planing.
i simply answered that question.

i don't apologize. the pictures of that night painfully reminded me to 9/11
and my emotions of 9/12 and the following days came flashing back.
(I have a personal connection to 9/11. I was on the phone with a lady friend a few blocks to the north when we both witness the tower collapses. i am on TV and she from her window and TV  (i was one of the few who had got a free transatlantic phone line after the planes had just hit). Her sister living in that area that i also knew in person was 48h not accounted for, but found unharmed later. also her younger nice, which i knew from visits in NYC and being her tourist guide in my area, was working with the Lehman Brother down there but was not directly harmed i learned later.)

i also do not only remember the Muslims mob celebrating 9/11 in the streets in the Middle East but even more also those more ore less secretly celebrating/admiring/downplaying/excusing 9/11 in German social media and other ways of comments (even factory workers in my occupation) at that time and sometimes till until today.

It changed me.

on a side note
On Saturday there was a call for a big demonstration organized in Germany by Muslims against terrorists constantly abusing the name of their religion.
the plan was for 10 000 attenders. The large Turkish DitiB traditional minded organisation deprecated participation of their large community cause of "to hot a day to do while Ramadan" (it was 19°C and overcast in Cologne) at the end it was 500 marchers. most of the them green-left non-muslim Germans and literally! a handfull of peace-loving and mourning Muslims.... the organiser themself, i hold those in high regard)
Draw you own conclusions...

[mirth]

As for my failure to express sadness over the obvious tragedy of the situation, none of us here know any of the victims. Even in cases where a forum member has suffered a personal loss, I don't post condolences as it seems empty to me, coming from someone only known from a web forum. If I lost my wife or other family member, and I mentioned it here, I don't think I would take any comfort from condolences expressed by my fellow grogheads that I've never met. Gary K might be an exception, as I've at least talked to him over Skype as we played an ASLSK scenario!

I don't think empathy requires physical interaction with someone. We've all experienced the pain of loss and offering condolences to someone you know is suffering is no more or less valid when done over the internet.

[bob48]

On top of all that, we have the terrible loss of life in the fire in Portugal, and I believe a big warehouse fire in California(?) that has claimed quite a few lives.

[bayonetbrant]

As for my failure to express sadness over the obvious tragedy of the situation, none of us here know any of the victims. Even in cases where a forum member has suffered a personal loss, I don't post condolences as it seems empty to me, coming from someone only known from a web forum. If I lost my wife or other family member, and I mentioned it here, I don't think I would take any comfort from condolences expressed by my fellow grogheads that I've never met. Gary K might be an exception, as I've at least talked to him over Skype as we played an ASLSK scenario!

I don't think empathy requires physical interaction with someone. We've all experienced the pain of loss and offering condolences to someone you know is suffering is no more or less valid when done over a the internet.

I can't think of any better example than when Critter passed about 5 years ago and we all had Martok sign our names to his card at the funeral, and then his daughter later popped into our forum to tell us how much it meant to the family.

[Pete Dero]

On top of all that, we have the terrible loss of life in the fire in Portugal, and I believe a big warehouse fire in California(?) that has claimed quite a few lives.

And a new attack in London today.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/london-pedestrians-struck-by-vehicle-in-major-incident-police-say?via=desktop&source=copyurl

At least one person was killed early Monday after a van struck several worshippers leaving a mosque in North London, authorities said. Several others were reported injured in the incident, which London Mayor Sadiq Khan described as a "horrific terrorist attack."