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Cold Waters

Started by Thomasew, September 28, 2016, 09:55:13 AM

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mikeck

The Devs had mentioned that due to popular demand (wailing outcry??) they will be building in controls for "periscope depth", specific depths and speeds. So you can just click on "go to periscope depth" and your boat does it
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

mirth

Quote from: Nefaro on June 23, 2017, 10:37:51 AM
Developer mentioned, in live stream earlier, that they're currently working on AI improvements & adding crew voice-overs for patch 1.05.

:hug:



1.04 was released this morning.  Extends campaign length & fixes a few bugs in it.

Damn. The rate of the updates is impressive.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus

JudgeDredd

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on June 23, 2017, 01:05:32 PM
Quote from: JudgeDredd on June 23, 2017, 11:34:11 AM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on June 23, 2017, 10:59:39 AM
I'm still waiting for those controls before I jump back into this...
What controls are you talking about JH? I saw you mentioned it earlier, but the link that took me to the Beta patch info didn't mention any controls

The UI controls that will let you dive, go to periscope depth, turn, etc.
Must've missed that. Those would be handy.  O0
Alba gu' brath

mikeck

Finally gave this one a shot. Now, besides the tutorials I have only played the first 2 single player missions; although I played "the duel" 5 times with different subs.

It seems like it's too easy though (plying on realistic difficulty). I spawn and I already have a green icon marking generally where the bad guy is. I wait a minute or so for a 50% solution and fire two Mark-48s in the direction and hit

My question is: are all of the engagements like this? Where you have the guy already detected and just have to wait a few?
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

jomni

#454
Quote from: mikeck on June 27, 2017, 09:57:00 PM
Finally gave this one a shot. Now, besides the tutorials I have only played the first 2 single player missions; although I played "the duel" 5 times with different subs.

It seems like it's too easy though (plying on realistic difficulty). I spawn and I already have a green icon marking generally where the bad guy is. I wait a minute or so for a 50% solution and fire two Mark-48s in the direction and hit

My question is: are all of the engagements like this? Where you have the guy already detected and just have to wait a few?

Detection is somewhat simplified since your crew are doing all the work for you. But it's more about when to shoot and tactics you employ. Green detection can be highly inaccurate in terms of location, speed and course.

Under the hood, there are many factors in play in detection. Thermal layers are different. Surface noise levels (rain storm).  Your speed and cavitation, etc.  You still have to know how these factors work to be successful.  The situations can be different per mission.

Sub duels are pretty much the least challenging of missions.

More things are trying to kill you too in campaign missions. With ASW aircraft and Anti Sub Rockets, you get a lot of torpedoes coming out from nowhere. And these torpedoes are as smart and persistent as your Mk48.  So you say it's easy to sink stuff with Mk48.  It's also easy to be a prey of enemy "smart" torpedoes. So try your best to keep stealthy. And that's a lot of work.

glen55

Quote from: mikeck on June 27, 2017, 09:57:00 PM
Finally gave this one a shot. Now, besides the tutorials I have only played the first 2 single player missions; although I played "the duel" 5 times with different subs.

It seems like it's too easy though (plying on realistic difficulty). I spawn and I already have a green icon marking generally where the bad guy is. I wait a minute or so for a 50% solution and fire two Mark-48s in the direction and hit

My question is: are all of the engagements like this? Where you have the guy already detected and just have to wait a few?

It's for sure a lot harder than Red Storm Rising on normal difficulty.
Things are more like they are now than they have ever been before.
  - Dwight D. Eisenhower

Pete Dero

Besides adding playable Russian subs to the game this mod also adds some 15 new single missions.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5234

Nefaro

#457
Quote from: mikeck on June 27, 2017, 09:57:00 PM
Finally gave this one a shot. Now, besides the tutorials I have only played the first 2 single player missions; although I played "the duel" 5 times with different subs.

It seems like it's too easy though (plying on realistic difficulty). I spawn and I already have a green icon marking generally where the bad guy is. I wait a minute or so for a 50% solution and fire two Mark-48s in the direction and hit

My question is: are all of the engagements like this? Where you have the guy already detected and just have to wait a few?


The AI isn't currently returning fire properly.

They should be firing one, and probably multiple, return torpedo/rocket-torpedo shots when they detect your weapon heading for them.  Especially the enemy subs which have long-range heavy torpedoes.  But, instead, they aren't returning fire - just cranking up the speed and running.

It is currently far easier than RSR was, on the higher "realistic" levels & such.  Once you were detected, or your weapon(s) were, they wouldn't exactly be stingy with their own.  Made each encounter challenging.  Even forced you to consider keeping the wire just to steer your torpedoes in from a different direction, before they went active, because your target would inevitably start launching torpedoes and/or Silexes down the bearing the torpedo was heading from when first detected.  So if you were creeping around silently, and did a straight shot, you would eventually have to deal with homing torpedoes coming back at you.  Which was very deadly in a sub-vs-sub knife fight where mutual detection ranges are much closer; those counter-fired fish don't have to go very far to find you.

Supposed to be some AI fixes in the next update.  I specifically asked a dev about the enemy ships not returning fire when under attack, and that was the reply I got.  Looking forward to it because this game is excellent, but does still need some tweaking.

Nefaro

Optional 1.5 beta/test patch is out.


Adds crew voices and some fixes.

I'm not sure if it has improved the AI's counter-fire yet.  Didn't notice it, specifically, in the patch notes.  Been waiting on that improvement before diving back in (and my WoWS premium to expire).

Pete Dero

New mod   http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=5258

Mod feature list:

- All new 2004 campaign that exists alongside the original campaigns.

- Playable Seawolf (SSN-21), Los Angeles Flt II, and Los Angeles Flt III Class Submarines.

- Added the BQQ-10 Hull Sonar, TB-23 Towed Array, and TB-29 Towed Array in Sensors.txt.

- Added Mk. 48 ADCAP to Weapons.txt. ADCAP is default Torpedo for SSN-21 and LA Flt II/III. Mk. 48 ADCAP is Swim Out enabled on SSN-21, so no launch transient.

- Added the Russian Akula and Sierra II Class Subs as AI opponent vessels, so you will have more capable opponents.

Nefaro

Quote"Crew voices are disabled by default in version 1.05b.
To enable them simply open default/hud/default.txt and change LogVoiceVolume=0 to a value between 0-1 for volume."



For turning on crew voices in the beta patch.

Apparently they got the voices from a Subsim mod.  I recognize FPSChazly's voice for some of them (sonarman iirc).

Swatter

I want to echo some of the AI issues mentioned so far. Way too many times I could wreck a dedicated ASW task group with a volley of torpedoes. The AI seems to be very reluctant to use munitions. I have sank very substantial Soviet surface forces and they went down with almost all of their ammo. It shouldn't be too hard to send munitions down the line of bearing of a weak contact. Many times I will send a torpedo down a line of bearing simply to get them to react. They need to do the same thing to me.

I have no idea how accurate modern torpedoes truly are, but in this game they are absolutely relentless killers. Often times, Ill just send a torpedo down the line of bearing of a surface group and WHAM it almost always hits something. With subs I do try and get a decent solution before I fire, because those are more tricky. Also, when I fire a torpedo at an Alpha from long range, they should be able to outrun it. Most times they don't. In addition, AI subs don't use depth to their advantage when evading torpedoes like human players do. They need to let the torpedo get close and release a counter measure, then do a dramatic depth change. Counter measures seem to work almost every time, I don't know if that's realistic or not. Sure torpedoes can re-acquire and often do, but some variability would make the game more risky for 688 boats.

The good thing with all of these criticism is that they should be easy to fix over time. Getting the AI to shoot me- easy. Getting subs to use depth better- easy. I think Killer Fish did a great job with this game.

mirth

Quote from: Swatter on July 05, 2017, 08:59:27 PM
It shouldn't be too hard to send munitions down the line of bearing of a weak contact. Many times I will send a torpedo down a line of bearing simply to get them to react. They need to do the same thing to me.

They should. This is a standard tactic. If they aren't, it definitely needs to be addressed by the devs.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus

Nefaro

#463
Quote from: mirth on July 05, 2017, 09:08:35 PM
Quote from: Swatter on July 05, 2017, 08:59:27 PM
It shouldn't be too hard to send munitions down the line of bearing of a weak contact. Many times I will send a torpedo down a line of bearing simply to get them to react. They need to do the same thing to me.

They should. This is a standard tactic.

Yep!

The AI, back in ye olde RSR, would do it quite readily.  Would even use more, the higher the difficulty setting.  I distinctly recall getting return-bearing torpedoes, nearly every time, except when I had set my torpedo to enable (and, therefore, speed up & go active) at the last second. 

They would sometimes even launch multiples down staggered bearings, at high difficulty.  Made even an advantageous shot potentially dangerous.

Then again, the torpedoes in RSR weren't always quite as quick at turning & reacquiring after encountering a noisemaker decoy.  Sometimes they would also drive through it, instead of always doing a go-round countermeasure avoidance maneuver. 

Actually, I think the go-round was usually limited to the Mk48 ADCAPs, and maybe the most advanced Soviet torpedoes for the campaigns, but it's been a long time since I played.


I've had a lot of enjoyment out of CW already.  But I've been waiting for the promised AI fix, to enable their return fire, before diving deep & long into CW.

mirth

Quote from: Nefaro on July 05, 2017, 09:13:12 PM
They would sometimes even launch multiples down staggered bearings, at high difficulty.  Made even an advantageous shot potentially dangerous.

That's particularly nasty. If you're really cagey with the Mk48s, you can run them out off angle then turn them in so the return shots are down the wrong bearing. Hard to do without breaking the control wires though.
"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus