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Music, TV, Movies / Re: Jukebox Playlist
« Last post by Arctic Blast on Today at 03:50:13 AM »


And, since I saw him tonight, this was the opener to Ryan Adams' show (after a short intro by the devil) :



and this was the 'encore', happening immediately after he mocked the entire concept of encores :




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Let me just say this- It is a religious war to those who are waging it against us. Of course we should side with the Muslims who are willing to live and integrate into Western society, the people who embrace more tolerant interpretations of Islam. I think it would be a mistake to say it isn't a religious war or Islam isn't a problem because a certain portion of Islam is more tolerant than others. I have heard too many Western leaders say that terrorists don't represent Islam. They do and say so at every opportunity. I think to some degree we are fooling ourselves if we believe that not acknowledging the problematic interpretations of Islam is somehow going to help us.

There are parts of the Bible that were used to justify violence and barbaric behavior in relatively recent Western history. We don't say those persons weren't Christians, they most certainly were. They were, according to our modern view, following pretty barbaric interpretations of Christianity. Not calling them Christians would be counter-productive because you then couldn't learn from their mistakes. Similarly with Islam, not calling out problematic interpretations of Islam is not going to help to moderate those more radical elements or sympathy for those more radical elements.

I don't want to start citing polls and such, but it is a myth that the vast majority of Islam is tolerant by Western standards of morality. There are many practices that us Westerners consider immoral that carry weight for hundreds of millions of Muslims in the world. I think as Westerners, we need acknowledge that many Islamic practices have no place in Western society and we shouldn't be afraid to say it.
The first thing I'd like to nip in the bud is your post is riddled with suggestions of hiding the problem, pretending there's no problem or just plain not wanting to talk about it. I understand why that is - but I want to categorically say here and now that is not my stance and it's definitely not an acceptable stance. Bury it and it'll fester.

I am merely suggesting a different way of tackling the problem and it's one that does not attach blame, apportion guilt or in any way make a particular group of people - a minority group of people in the UK - feel uncomfortable or in any danger whilst living in our great country. Either as refugees or economic migrants or asylum seekers, they've came to our great country to live. They've looked to us.

People say "How come all those immigrants go through all those countries in Europe to wait at Calais to come to the UK? How come they don't stop at other countries?" Most people suggest it's our benefit system. I disagree strongly. I believe it's because we are a welcoming (for the most part), tolerant (for the most part) and fair (for the most part) country and they think this will be a great place to live and be looked after. I never want that to change.

We owe it to people who live in the UK - whether they come here from other parts of the world or are born here - to welcome them and treat them as human beings in the first instance. Then you let each individual prove themselves. If they turn out to be unworthy of that trust we gave them, then they are dealt with accordingly...but my faith in humanity is that they will be few and far between.

I do not deny this is a religious war to people wanting to wage it - but it's not in the name of the Muslim faith and your suggestion that it is is bowing to their demands to make this about all Muslims. They are providing the wedge and by accepting their terms, you are using the hammer on their behalf. By accepting the use of the word Muslim everytime one of these atrocities happens, you're pushing that wedge in further for the terrorists. To allow those wee wankers to hijack a faith and use it to wage their war is just being weak. We are conforming to their desire which is to allow them to use a faith in use by over a billion people to propagate their violence AND turn us against that faith. The fact that they are doing so and the fact that we are allowing it is weakness on our part.

Let me be clearer - we should not be allowing these few arseholes to dictate the terms of their war of hate. Period.

The way we beat these animals is by not allowing their wedge to go through our lives and our communities. It's by opening our arms and welcoming people and showing them there's another way to live and it's a welcoming, tolerant and decent way of life where every individual, regardless of faith, colour, creed, origin is judged on the way they live in this country and not how others within their community act. This statement is obviously not aimed at terrorists but anyone of any origin, any faith, any colour or creed. The people that choose to live a different way can be excluded.

I know a guy who said "I treat everyone as a c**t and let them prove me wrong" - I take the other view - I treat everyone as a decent human and let them show me different and the reason I choose to look at it the opposite way is because deep down I believe that people are decent and there's a handful of c**ts. If I choose to live by his way, what's the point? Honestly, what's the point in bringing your kids up to believe everyone is an arsehole?

We're going to have to agree to disagree I'm afraid. I won't change your mind and I'm certainly not going to be swayed into allowing a few terrorists to dictate how I see their pathetic, short sighted, short lived agenda. I know what they're up to.

I've got their number and they won't out-fox me. I know you see it differently - that I am being out-foxed and falling into their trap - but I see it the other way.
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Religion, Politics, and Flame Wars / Re: Stay Classy Johnny Depp
« Last post by Swatter on Yesterday at 10:27:58 PM »
It's not like there was outrage all over the right wing when Ted Nugent was talking about shooting Obama, either.  People assumed it wasn't a valid threat and just overhyped rhetoric.

Ted Nugent is a well known nut. On the other hand, there are many mainstream liberal figures wishing for Trump's death these days and I think that is an important difference. The mainstream media during the era of Obama never ceased hyperventilating over supposed threats, racism, or hatred of Obama. They are entirely silent when large parts of the Left are espousing seething hatred for Trump and many are advocating for general violence toward his administration and sometimes Trump himself. That is because they (the news media themselves) hate Trump with a fury.

I personally can handle if people say they hate Trump, but I hate the hypocrisy.
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I respect your opinion Judge, but I think your wrong or perhaps I didn't make my point clear enough.

You have to know your enemy if you want to have any chance of defeating him. I agree that violence perpetrated for political reasons is terrorism and that the guy who killed Muslims was also a terrorist. The important distinction I want to make is motivation.

There is a reason that Muslims are not often victims of terror attacks perpetrated by Westerners. Westerners value life. When a Westerner who is not a religious convert starts killing Muslims, he/she is very likely mentally ill.

Now, I am not saying there aren't any mentally ill Muslim terrorists. I am sure there are. Yet, I would bet the vast majority are completely functional from a mental standpoint. Sure, the more brutal bastards are probably sociopaths. At the same time, you would probably find most are normal human beings that happen to share an ideology that believes in violence to achieve their religious and political objectives.

That's the difference and why there are so many attacks. I am not saying one type of attack is less abhorrent than another, but it would be crazy not to see the difference between the two. To say that the attacks have equivalent ramifications for society is straight suicide.

Now, I can see it happening that in the future perhaps a resistance group will form comprised of Westerners who murder Muslims in terrorist attacks. Whatever ideology that would drive that group would be equally as vile as Muslim extremist interpretations of Islam.

I am pretty sure we agree on much, but perhaps I didn't articulate my view well enough the first time. Let me be very clear, I have no problem with Muslims living in Western countries as long as they want to assimilate into the host culture.
I appreciate your well worded counter argument.

Personally, I don't like "grouping" people together because of a few arseholes. When I was in the army, I heard a lot about "Left footers" this, "Murdering Catholic bastards" that, etc, etc, etc...even though I was a Catholic myself. People I knew, respected and worked with were attributing the actions of a terrorist outfit to a more generalised "Catholic" class...which happened to include me.

I did not feel comfortable with people doing that and I didn't feel at ease being one of these Catholics that were perpetrating those crimes and I found it abhorrent that the IRA were attacking civilians - but it didn't make all Catholics murdering, terrorist arseholes.

I have tried, as best I can, to not generalise people into groups where plenty of people within that group are not the perpetrators of the crimes committed by a few people within the group.

I not stupid. I understand there are cells of terrorists within the UK and I understand that plenty of them are terrorists under the guise of a perverted faith...a faith that isn't perverse but is perverted by them and their recruiters in order to bring people into that group.

There are also hundreds of thousands of Muslims living in the UK who are not terrorists and who do not agree with what's going on and find it abhorrent. But can anyone here imagine what it must be like to walk down the street today in the UK as a Muslim - or even as a person who may not be a Muslim but "look like one". Please just think about how you'd feel being of that faith or a person from that "area" of the world and ask yourself how you would take yourself to the shops today to pick up some orange juice and a loaf of bread for breakfast.

The people committing these crimes are NOT Muslim. They've stolen it to create a divide.

Although I was turned into a Catholic when I was a child by my parents, I was never and have never been a believer in any religion. I do not believe in it and I prefer to believe it's a way to control people. But I'm absolutely fine with other people who believe in their religion. As long as said religion is a peaceful one...which I am led to believe the Muslim faith is. Not having read the Quran, I couldn't actually confirm that but I've heard many reports saying it's a peaceable one. As long as that's the case, believe or not. It's up to the individual.

Daesh and Al Qaeda and other groups act like this and steal some identifier in order to turn people against each other. It makes me sad when they succeed.

Quote
Let me be very clear, I have no problem with Muslims living in Western countries as long as they want to assimilate into the host culture.
Well said.

But the fact we put "Muslim" into these threads attacks ALL Muslims. And all because a few radicals (quite a few I'm sure) have stolen the tag.

I ask again...imagine what it must be like to walk down the street today in the UK as a Muslim - or even as a person who may not be a Muslim but "look like one" - who finds the goings on under the name of their faith as an outrage?

Let me just say this- It is a religious war to those who are waging it against us. Of course we should side with the Muslims who are willing to live and integrate into Western society, the people who embrace more tolerant interpretations of Islam. I think it would be a mistake to say it isn't a religious war or Islam isn't a problem because a certain portion of Islam is more tolerant than others. I have heard too many Western leaders say that terrorists don't represent Islam. They do and say so at every opportunity. I think to some degree we are fooling ourselves if we believe that not acknowledging the problematic interpretations of Islam is somehow going to help us.

There are parts of the Bible that were used to justify violence and barbaric behavior in relatively recent Western history. We don't say those persons weren't Christians, they most certainly were. They were, according to our modern view, following pretty barbaric interpretations of Christianity. Not calling them Christians would be counter-productive because you then couldn't learn from their mistakes. Similarly with Islam, not calling out problematic interpretations of Islam is not going to help to moderate those more radical elements or sympathy for those more radical elements.

I don't want to start citing polls and such, but it is a myth that the vast majority of Islam is tolerant by Western standards of morality. There are many practices that us Westerners consider immoral that carry weight for hundreds of millions of Muslims in the world. I think as Westerners, we need acknowledge that many Islamic practices have no place in Western society and we shouldn't be afraid to say it.
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Sports / Re: 2017 Baseball Thread
« Last post by Bison on Yesterday at 09:33:35 PM »
What a comeback against the Jays in the 9th and the Royals are now .500!
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Enigmas of the Mystical / Re: Florida deserves its own thread
« Last post by Sir Slash on Yesterday at 09:25:26 PM »
Here in Fla. retirees drive their golf carts out to their cars, to drive out to their mailboxes. And back again. Then they drive to the gym to work-out. And after.... go to Bob Evans for pie and ice cream. Some of them actually use them on the golf course too. And when you get in their way, they look like this.  >:(
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Religion, Politics, and Flame Wars / Re: WTF
« Last post by jejo68 on Yesterday at 09:12:25 PM »
I can confirm the use of women in a less than savory way. The Wife would meet with union reps (like old school teamster union reps) and be the only woman in a room of 100 men. I don't know how she did it.
A big gun strapped to her waist ?
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Religion, Politics, and Flame Wars / Re: Stay Classy Johnny Depp
« Last post by jejo68 on Yesterday at 09:07:56 PM »
The irony of a lefty actor invoking john booth's name as a person to follow is, well.... 
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Historical evidence contradict you swatter. No where has muslims integrated into the land they moved into, but rather they keep low profile until they get strong enough and then this shit happens.

Sure they have. They do it in the USA. Why they have such a harder time assimilating in Europe is a mystery to me.

In USA they are only about 1% of the population. Just wait until they reach 5-10% and you will see changes. Same happened in Europe and everywhere else they have moved in in greater numbers.
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Music, TV, Movies / Re: Decades Feeder Bracket - 1982 Final 8 Part 1
« Last post by MetalDog on Yesterday at 09:00:32 PM »
If y'alls behavior merits it, yes.  But I'll have to have someone else set it up.  I don't know a damn thing about polkas and square dancing.
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