Steel Division 1944 (by wargame red dragon devs) in game trailer and unit stream

[acctingman]

NERDS!

I approve of this thread!  O0

[sandman2575]

Isn't that what they were originally designed for, Infantry direct fire support.  Like Soviet SU-152s.

For the self-propelled armored guns, yes I'm sure you're right - bad example on my part -- but the infantry guns like the LeiG?  Well, come to think of it, I guess they had direct fire roles too. Guess I'm letting my experience with Graviteam Tactics (where I always try to use infantry guns in an indirect role, with fires called in by the spotter) color my view.

Carry on then!

[Destraex]

Sandman. I would love to know how they were used predominantly in real life.

[Destraex]

Me having a debate on the total war forums with somebody, I think their are a lot of GROGS who are on the fence about this game. Some who probably should not even try it, because they will not have the correct mind set. Tearing it apart for little obscurities.

"I agree that I would have appreciated a more detailed simulation of command chain. The only part of the game that simulates command is a morale buff given to the troops if a commander unit is in the vicinity.
The troops do not get suppressed, worried, break and retreat as often as they would. They also fire more accurately. Because a commander is considered to do what veteran status does for the troops. Give them better morale and make them less nervous shots.

You can slow the game down to the point it may as well be paused it is going to slowly.
The slower settings are below, like total war, their are arrow buttons to achieve this effect anytime you want for as long as you want as long as you are not playing with other humans:
Normal > Slow > Very Slow > Bullet time

As for the rate at which units take damage. Units become useless or are destroyed when they are penetrated, which might be after 10 shots if the range is great or not at all if the armour values defeat the incoming fire. Their is no health bar. So don't expect to have a lot of notice especially in close range engagements or from the sides. For your information, yes I do zoom in to watch particularly important firefights or to properly place some units and sight them like AT guns. However the LOS tool can also be used anytime for that. I must admit though that I stay zoomed out most of the time until I get that breather to zoom in. Having said that, this is a very SLOW RTS or light wargame. This is not a combat mission or graviteam game, where people think being historical means being able to make split second decisions in an artificially paused environment for ever. I understand the argument of AI not being good commanders and having to play every individual commander, however this is not realistic. Because you effectively circumvent your own Command and Control simulation when you BORG control your units, because you can see them all and you can link them all via radio and perfect communication with your own brain. This is why when you lose units because you cannot control them all in real time, when they AI has control of them, you can put that down to BAD COMMANDERS or IMPERFECT COMMUNICATIONS etc.
No computer game, unless it is one that has FOG of war and every single person playing as an individual soldier isolated from all but the people he would actually have been in contact with, does a good job of command and control. You can always move units without orders to a certain extent.
Unfortunately in steel division you do have BORG spotting, which means if one unit sees something all units know where that unit is. What slows things down in this game though is the time it takes units to aim. They don't just fire, they have to set up.

I play with friends a lot, friends that are not really competent enough for multiplayer. We play against the AI co-cooperatively and just enjoy each others company. It's beer and pretzels. If you play it against VERY EASY rather than just easy AI then you have a lot of time to do things and zoom around to enjoy things.

I as you do, would prefer to have combat mission mechanics with this engine though."

[sandman2575]

I think the inimitable Tim Stone over at RPS hit the nail on the head in saying, in effect, SD44 hits a sweet-spot between groggy-wargame detail and video-gamey RTS fun --

"There are two wars raging within Steel Division. While the Axis and Allies are going at it hammer and tongs in the très jolie fields and lanes of NW France, behind the scenes 'Plausibility' and 'Populism' – or 'Wargame' and 'RTS' if you prefer – are scrapping just as energetically for control of the soul of Eugen's latest offering. Most of the time the fight is close and the game is great as a result."

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2017/05/24/steel-division-normandy-44-review/

[Destraex]

Good synopsis.

[SirAndrewD]

This game is hitting a sweet spot for me that hasn't been hit since Panzer General.  It's enough beer and pretzels to get over my current over 40 lack of attention span, but real enough to feel like I did when I was younger moving around 500 chits and taking two hour turns in wargames. 

I really like it.

[Hofstadter]

Caved and bought it, will probably refund though. Despise deckbuilding.

[JasonPratt]

^^ That sounds like we're going to hear a cursy video sooner or later.  >:D


Re Borg spotting: even Command Ops (formerly Airborne Assault) doesn't do proper C&C in that regard. You always know what all your units see in real time (within the limits of FoW) and they all know it, too. It's like every unit on the map has one man with an immortality clause who shall always be the last to die, who constantly radios what he sees back into your brain with no time delay.

But that's the game being a game. The only computer game I know of with perfect C&C sim, is Campaigns on the Danube (I almost typed Dragoons in the Fog ;) ). Although come to think of it, if you're using Headquarters In The Saddle + Courier mode in a multiplayer Scourge of War / Take Command game, that works equivalently: you only can see what you personally can see, and you only heard about what's going on elsewhere if your allies send updates, and then only brief messages -- which could be intercepted, or get stuck in a pond, and take time to reach you anyway.

Maybe Dave & Crew at Panther Games can finagle a way to provide an option in COPs3 to only get occasional blips about what your guys and the other units are doing. But I'm doubtful they could get a competent AI running with that information.

[sandman2575]

Despise deckbuilding.

Not saying the same would necessarily happen to you -- but I ignored deck-building for the longest time with Wargame... it just seemed confusing and pointless. But one day it just clicked with me for some reason, and once it does, it becomes pretty addictive. Probably half of all my hours in Airland Battle / Red Dragon are just building new decks for new purposes.

Admittedly, deck-building in SD'44 is a little less satisfying than Wargame because it's less flexible; you're restricted by the Division type, whereas in Wargame it can be a lot more open-ended and experimental.  But overall I've really liked putting new decks together for SD'44.  And the A-B-C phasing of unit availability adds a new twist.

If you haven't already -- Give it a try!

[Cyrano]

I've made my peace with this one and have found myself enjoying it.

The lack and, likely, inability, to offer historical scenarios will always make it less for me, but it is certainly fun and I am looking forward to a big, silly MP or two.

The parallel I think my head is drawing is with John Bobek's The Games of War (https://www.amazon.com/Games-War-Treasury-Battles-Soldiers/dp/1434330281).  John runs games at cons all over the place and I spent some time with him yesterday at Nexus here in Milwaukee.  He runs games from all periods and almost never paints minis in the way we square-buttoners thing of it.  He uses cardboard, plastic, and highly abstracted terrain to just play games.  And, based on our conversation, he almost never uses historical scenarios for reasons he has thought through, although I will say I respectfully disagreed.

I will always, happily, play a game John runs.  For reasons I doubt I could fully articulate, I would never choose to game that way on a day-to-day basis.

Thus I think it is for me with Steel Division.

[Jarhead0331]

It took me awhile to warm up to deck building too. But once I stopped looking at them as cards in a deck (I hate card based games) I really started to enjoy it and it really is half the game. Without building solid decks, your ability to do well in the game will be limited, as will your enjoyment.

It really is just a unique way of showing an OOB.

[Rayfer]

I've made my peace with this one and have found myself enjoying it.

The lack and, likely, inability, to offer historical scenarios will always make it less for me, but it is certainly fun and I am looking forward to a big, silly MP or two.

The parallel I think my head is drawing is with John Bobek's The Games of War (https://www.amazon.com/Games-War-Treasury-Battles-Soldiers/dp/1434330281).  John runs games at cons all over the place and I spent some time with him yesterday at Nexus here in Milwaukee.  He runs games from all periods and almost never paints minis in the way we square-buttoners thing of it.  He uses cardboard, plastic, and highly abstracted terrain to just play games.  And, based on our conversation, he almost never uses historical scenarios for reasons he has thought through, although I will say I respectfully disagreed.

I will always, happily, play a game John runs.  For reasons I doubt I could fully articulate, I would never choose to game that way on a day-to-day basis.

Thus I think it is for me with Steel Division.

But do you think with mods there just might be historical scenarios made?

[JasonPratt]

Historical scenarios of a sort must be possible, because the campaigns are built around something-like-historical-scenarios.


Re the deck building; yeah it isn't really deck building because it isn't like you're shuffling cards and dealing them out randomly. It's more like spending political points to buy troops in a Panzer Generalish game, except that there are no points just relative values: you can fill a slot with 6 of these trash French tanks, or with one veteran Panzer III tank who functions as a leader; and there are only so many "stacks" of either one available from your division, and this division expects your Kampfgruppe to use no more than 5 "stacks" of tanks anyway.

[jomni]

Without building solid decks, your ability to do well in the game will be limited, as will your enjoyment.

It really is just a unique way of showing an OOB.

Can we have solid deck examples?