Consolidated Syria Conflict Thread

[mirth]

And this is why I was surprised the Iranians allowed the overflight. Of course there probably isn't much for them to crash into in Northern Iran anyway. Still, not a great plan to have cruise missiles crashing into your territory.

[LongBlade]

Opps.

"Russian cruise missiles intended for targets in Syria hit Iran instead"

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3

I was waiting for something like this.

The Russians, of course, report that all missiles hit their targets without civilian casualties.

If you believe that I have a war plan for you that's guaranteed to take Moscow before winter.

[mirth]

BTW, that failure rate (about 15%) is not surprising for a new and relatively untried weapon system like a cruise missile. And it's rather better than what you might expect from Russian technology :P

[mirth]

Makes me wonder how many they had fail on launch. They might have had to fire 40-50, just to get 26 on the way.

[Marty Ward]

Opps.

"Russian cruise missiles intended for targets in Syria hit Iran instead"

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3

But the YouTube video made it look so precise and flawless! 

Well to be fair they only missed by ~1600 km's. That is on target for some!

[undercovergeek]

Opps.

"Russian cruise missiles intended for targets in Syria hit Iran instead"

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3

But the YouTube video made it look so precise and flawless! 

orange juice squirting from every orrifice!! 

[LongBlade]

I don't think he's an isolationist. He's had no problem ramping up drone strikes, for one. Agree with the policy or not, taking people out on foreign soil is pretty interventionist.

He and his administration simply seem far more interested in pushing a domestic agenda before the clock runs out. There's apparently no interest in a cohesive foreign policy. Even an isolationist foreign policy would be more coherent than the current lack of any plan.

This.

I think of it as, basically, the direct opposite of Kennedy's approach to the Cuban Missile Crisis.  Kowtowing interspersed with indecision self-serving fabrications and denial.

I'm going to stick with my isolationist assessment.

Kowtowing, indecision, and self-serving fabrications aside what has been the trajectory of the US?

Withdrawal.

Obama broke Libya and refused to pay for it.

He took a stable situation in Iraq and withdrew, The resulting chaos is irrelevant to an isolationist - he doesn't think we should be there at all. I suspect the only reason why he was lobbing cruise missiles and half-hearted air strikes is not because he wants to be there, but because he is afraid of the results of his isolationism - the complete collapse of the middle east.

That he's inconsistent in his isolationism isn't unique to US foreign policy. If Obama were actually bright enough to study the issue he'd discover that other presidents have had rather large exceptions in their foreign policies. Those exceptions were explained away as Realpolitik.

Now I don't think the collective brain trust around him is capable of studying history long enough to formulate anything so coherent as a isolationist policy peppered with Realpolitik, but after the dust settles that's going to be about as rational a label as can be placed on his actions, even if he himself wasn't capable of understanding what it was he was trying to do.

[undercovergeek]

So they are not only there to battle the IS, but they will also battle them - and this will be the first time a highly trained military force is going against them on the ground. And that's a good thing in my book.

i imagine itll be the same as the airstrikes - over heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere are IS, over theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere are the rebels, we bomb over heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere, the russians bomb over theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere

'we have have air dropped our spetnatz teams right at the heart of the problem, all the way over theeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeere'

[mirth]

Opps.

"Russian cruise missiles intended for targets in Syria hit Iran instead"

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2015/10/08/russian-cruise-missiles-intended-for-targets-in-syria-hit-iran-instead/?intcmp=hpbt3

But the YouTube video made it look so precise and flawless! 

Well to be fair they only missed by ~1600 km's. That is on target for some!

As far as I'm concerned,  the Russians can crash as many cruise missiles into Iran as they want.

[LongBlade]

I'm waiting to see how far off the map the Spetnaz end up. Any bets on them parachuting into Tehran by accident?

[mirth]

I'm waiting to see how far off the map the Spetnaz end up. Any bets on them parachuting into Tehran by accident?

There could be Daesh hiding there!

[Centurion40]

I'm waiting to see how far off the map the Spetnaz end up. Any bets on them parachuting into Tehran by accident?

Iran, no.  At least nothing that will get reported.  Same with Iraqi controlled territory.

Turkey or any Kurdish areas are another question entirely.  I could see them "accidentally" probing Turkish or Kurdish controlled areas.  Hopefully they'll get their hats handed to them by the Turks.  Kurds... who knows.

[mirth]

My instinct is to think that sending troops into a NATO member country would be a bad idea. Then I remember how utterly impotent NATO has been in dealing with Russia to this point.

[LongBlade]

China may join Russia in the fight. There's also a report of a Chinese carrier on its way to the Med in this report.

Reports emanating from the Middle East last week said China was planning on joining the fight against ISIS "in the coming weeks", according to a Syrian army official.

While Beijing insists it will abide by the United Nations (UN) in the region, hints of an action were backed up when it spoke strongly about a coordinated response to the rising terrorist threat.

Speaking of the Syrian crisis China's foreign minister Wang Yi said at the UN Security Council session in New York: "The world cannot afford to stand by and look on with folded arms, but must also not arbitrarily interfere."

He added that nations should stand united against "violent extremist ideology".

Mr Wang and his opposite number in Russia, Sergey Lavrov met at length last week and afterwards Mr Lavrov said the two countries are in "similar positions" on many domestic and international issues.

source: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/610286/China-preparing-to-team-up-with-Russia-in-Syria-Boost-for-Putin-in-battle-against-ISIS

[Centurion40]

China may join Russia in the fight. There's also a report of a Chinese carrier on its way to the Med in this report.

Reports emanating from the Middle East last week said China was planning on joining the fight against ISIS "in the coming weeks", according to a Syrian army official.

While Beijing insists it will abide by the United Nations (UN) in the region, hints of an action were backed up when it spoke strongly about a coordinated response to the rising terrorist threat.

Speaking of the Syrian crisis China's foreign minister Wang Yi said at the UN Security Council session in New York: "The world cannot afford to stand by and look on with folded arms, but must also not arbitrarily interfere."

He added that nations should stand united against "violent extremist ideology".

Mr Wang and his opposite number in Russia, Sergey Lavrov met at length last week and afterwards Mr Lavrov said the two countries are in "similar positions" on many domestic and international issues.

source: http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/610286/China-preparing-to-team-up-with-Russia-in-Syria-Boost-for-Putin-in-battle-against-ISIS

In the 1970s, I once read a Christian fundamentalist comic book interpreting the description of the Battle of Armageddon in the Book of Revelations.

From Revelations 9

The sun and sky were darkened by the smoke from the Abyss. 3 And out of the smoke locusts came down on the earth and were given power like that of scorpions of the earth. 4 They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads. 5 They were not allowed to kill them but only to torture them for five months. And the agony they suffered was like that of the sting of a scorpion when it strikes. 6 During those days people will seek death but will not find it; they will long to die, but death will elude them.

7 The locusts looked like horses prepared for battle. On their heads they wore something like crowns of gold, and their faces resembled human faces. 8 Their hair was like women's hair, and their teeth were like lions' teeth. 9 They had breastplates like breastplates of iron, and the sound of their wings was like the thundering of many horses and chariots rushing into battle. 10

The comic said that John of Patmos actually saw attack helicopters and had no other way to describe them.

"Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15 And the four angels who had been kept ready for this very hour and day and month and year were released to kill a third of mankind. 16 The number of the mounted troops was twice ten thousand times ten thousand. I heard their number.

17 The horses and riders I saw in my vision looked like this: Their breastplates were fiery red, dark blue, and yellow as sulfur. The heads of the horses resembled the heads of lions, and out of their mouths came fire, smoke and sulfur. 18 A third of mankind was killed by the three plagues of fire, smoke and sulfur that came out of their mouths. 19 The power of the horses was in their mouths and in their tails; for their tails were like snakes, having heads with which they inflict injury.

The Euphrates River plays a role, with possible descriptions of chemical weapons, along with firearms, cannons, rockets, etc.

From Revelations 16

12 The sixth angel poured out his bowl on the great river Euphrates, and its water was dried up to prepare the way for the kings from the East. 13 Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet. 14 They are demonic spirits that perform signs, and they go out to the kings of the whole world, to gather them for the battle on the great day of God Almighty.

15 "Look, I come like a thief! Blessed is the one who stays awake and remains clothed, so as not to go naked and be shamefully exposed."

16 Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.

17 The seventh angel poured out his bowl into the air, and out of the temple came a loud voice from the throne, saying, "It is done!" 18 Then there came flashes of lightning, rumblings, peals of thunder and a severe earthquake. No earthquake like it has ever occurred since mankind has been on earth, so tremendous was the quake. 19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations collapsed.

Kings from the East = China, Iran, and maybe Russia
Armageddon is supposedly a place in Israel between the West Bank and the Golan Heights.
Line 18 could possible refer to a nuclear exchange

Revelations 18:  Babylon is the capital of the enemies of God

18 After this I saw another angel coming down from heaven. He had great authority, and the earth was illuminated by his splendor. 2 With a mighty voice he shouted:

"'Fallen! Fallen is Babylon the Great!'[a]
    She has become a dwelling for demons
and a haunt for every impure spirit,
    a haunt for every unclean bird,
    a haunt for every unclean and detestable animal.
3 For all the nations have drunk
    the maddening wine of her adulteries.
The kings of the earth committed adultery with her,
    and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries."

Revelations 20

7 When the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—and to gather them for battle. In number they are like the sand on the seashore. 9 They marched across the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of God's people, the city he loves. But fire came down from heaven and devoured them.

Gog and Magog have been interpreted as Scythians and Mongols, Russians and Chinese, or Iranian nomadic peoples. Also people living around or north of the Black Sea, and neat the Great Wall.

You can see how this comic captured my imagination, has stuck with me to this day; and comes to mind in the current involvement of Russians, Chinese and Iranians in Iraq and Syria.  And now a discovery of oil near the Golan, near Armageddon.  Wild!