Question for Jomni, PanzersEast or other Flight Simmers

Started by Tuna, August 22, 2013, 09:06:59 AM

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WallysWorld

PanzersEast has it 100% correct.

Tuna, when you capture the localizer, does the attitude indicator show both a lateral and vertical indicator. Or just a lateral (direction) mark?

You should see both horizontal and vertical lines noted in this picture:

"I used to be with it, but then they changed what *it* was. Now what I'm with isn't *it* and what *it* is seems weird and scary to me." - Abraham Simpson

Tuna

I'm hitting APP when I hit that Green Cone on the GPS.. should I be lining up and hitting it a lot earlier, like when I first hear the Morse?.

I notice on the video's that the altitude AP is active, then seems to turn it off when the plane starts to descend.. mine doesn't turn off..

I believe I see both the indicator's.. maybe I'm too close when I'm hitting APP.

WallysWorld

I usually line up earlier than the green cone, Tuna. I usually intercept the localizer about 12 nm away from the runway for most airports.

As soon as the lateral indicator appears and then starts moving toward the middle is when I turn on APP.
"I used to be with it, but then they changed what *it* was. Now what I'm with isn't *it* and what *it* is seems weird and scary to me." - Abraham Simpson

Tuna

Thanks guys.. I'll give it another try after work!..

I knew there were experts on here, with all the big Jet's I see in the Screenshot thread!  8)

PanzersEast

Quote from: WallysWorld on August 22, 2013, 11:38:52 AM
I usually line up earlier than the green cone, Tuna. I usually intercept the localizer about 12 nm away from the runway for most airports.

As soon as the lateral indicator appears and then starts moving toward the middle is when I turn on APP.

If you are flying an commercial airliner I would suggest an intercept of 20miles out.... however with GA you can intercept at a shorter distance.


PE

WallysWorld

#20
Quote from: PanzersEast on August 22, 2013, 12:08:16 PM
If you are flying an commercial airliner I would suggest an intercept of 20miles out.... however with GA you can intercept at a shorter distance.
PE

Quite correct! It depends on what you're flying.

I remember the first time I did a successful ILS landing, I was so very happy. The first time is quite a thrill.
"I used to be with it, but then they changed what *it* was. Now what I'm with isn't *it* and what *it* is seems weird and scary to me." - Abraham Simpson

PanzersEast

#21
Quote from: WallysWorld on August 22, 2013, 12:11:49 PM
Quote from: PanzersEast on August 22, 2013, 12:08:16 PM
If you are flying an commercial airliner I would suggest an intercept of 20miles out.... however with GA you can intercept at a shorter distance.
PE

Quite correct! It depends on what you're flying.

I remember the first time I did a successful ILS landing, I squealed like a girl. I was so happy.

Yep :-) , it is very rewarding to set everything up and land smoothing on the center line... it becomes quit addicting. 

You can intercept the localizer at 15 or 18 miles distance, however with greater speed from an airliner and more to do, it will give you a little more time to setup if you are learning.  The GA are slower and easier to maneuver, especially if the aoa is off.

Some fly with an STAR approach, however with IFR I generally use the ATC and my FMC even though the ATC can be wonkers with FSX.


PE

Yskonyn

Disengage the autothrottle on final, eh? Which instructor told you that?! :P

I can provide some real world input as a 737 pilot;

The tips above are sound (except for the autothrottle! , but that might be a flightsim thing?).
You need to intercept the localizer first, before the autopilot will be able to intercept the glideslope.
And be sure to have the correct frequency selected!

On the 737 the autopilot will have to be in APP mode to follow the ILS.
VOR mode will just capture the localizer and you will need to guide descent yourself (in either VNAV or V/S).
Then there is LNAV/VNAV.
This mode will not actually capture the ILS signals, but will use the GPS to fly a path that is calculated by the FMC. In most situations this will result in a flightpath pretty close to the ILS path, but as the aircraft is flying a preprogrammed route you run the risk of constantly flying besides the actual localizer.
But in the real jet an approach in LNAV / VNAV is possible.

In the real jet you can also intercept the glideslope from above (meaning descending into the glide with a higher rate of descent than you would need to just follow it), but I know several issues with (prior?) versions of MSFS.

On average a glideslope is 3 degrees and most start at 2000 - 3000 ft above ground level.
If you know it's a 3 degree glidepath, you can calculate the amount of miles out you need to be for a spot on intercept at 2000 or 3000 feet.

A 20 mile final is a little excessive. But a 10 mile final is pretty standard for most airports.
We fly 4 - 2 mile finals without problems, but that - of course - is manually flown.
(Some Greek fields require some pretty great non-standard procedures! :D)

If you have more questions, feel free to ask.
"Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing.
However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore."

PanzersEast

#23
Quote from: Yskonyn on August 22, 2013, 12:48:48 PM
Disengage the autothrottle on final, eh? Which instructor told you that?! :P

I can provide some real world input as a 737 pilot;

The tips above are sound (except for the autothrottle! , but that might be a flightsim thing?).
You need to intercept the localizer first, before the autopilot will be able to intercept the glideslope.
And be sure to have the correct frequency selected!

On the 737 the autopilot will have to be in APP mode to follow the ILS.
VOR mode will just capture the localizer and you will need to guide descent yourself (in either VNAV or V/S).
Then there is LNAV/VNAV.
This mode will not actually capture the ILS signals, but will use the GPS to fly a path that is calculated by the FMC. In most situations this will result in a flightpath pretty close to the ILS path, but as the aircraft is flying a preprogrammed route you run the risk of constantly flying besides the actual localizer.
But in the real jet an approach in LNAV / VNAV is possible.

In the real jet you can also intercept the glideslope from above (meaning descending into the glide with a higher rate of descent than you would need to just follow it), but I know several issues with (prior?) versions of MSFS.

On average a glideslope is 3 degrees and most start at 2000 - 3000 ft above ground level.
If you know it's a 3 degree glidepath, you can calculate the amount of miles out you need to be for a spot on intercept at 2000 or 3000 feet.

A 20 mile final is a little excessive. But a 10 mile final is pretty standard for most airports.
We fly 4 - 2 mile finals without problems, but that - of course - is manually flown.
(Some Greek fields require some pretty great non-standard procedures! :D)

If you have more questions, feel free to ask.

Thanks for the feedback... I have never flown a real 737, however I do fly GA A/C.  I am speaking purely from a sim aspect when I give the advice above and not from a real world aspect as that is not attainable in FSX with its programming limitations.  As I understand in real world, most airports localizer are up to 18 miles, FSX is attainable from 20 miles and will allow a new guy to the sim plenty of time to setup his approach, after which he can adjust accordingly depending on the airport (the FSX ATC like to vector you in at around 18 ~20 for an intercept).

I believe the auto throttle is per company procedures and situations.

PE

Tuna

Wooo Whooo.. ran down cellar for a few minutes (benefit of working from home)...
I think my issue was.. I thought that button on the Nav was for muting.. but I was probalby turning it off huh!..

Well anways.. landed fine!.. Your right it is cool!... lol.. now I'm gonna have to try bigger birds!

thanks for all your help guys!

PanzersEast

Quote from: Tuna on August 22, 2013, 01:27:15 PM
Wooo Whooo.. ran down cellar for a few minutes (benefit of working from home)...
I think my issue was.. I thought that button on the Nav was for muting.. but I was probalby turning it off huh!..

Well anways.. landed fine!.. Your right it is cool!... lol.. now I'm gonna have to try bigger birds!

thanks for all your help guys!

Great to hear.... post back any questions you may have.  I'm flying the AN-2, 777 and the 737-200 right now..... the later mainly with AirHauler.... fun stuff.  I switched to OPUS FSX for my weather engine and it has been a great purchase thus far.  Blue Skies


PE

Tuna

So looking and testing again.. I guess that is a Mute button, cause I can hit it and still land.. I just need to get to a lower altitude and acquire it with plenty of time, once I start hearing that it has acquired... Had two more successful flights tonight.. very smooth (My first one this afternoon was shaky, but I landed alive).

Will have to try the pea soup landing soon!

Thanks again for your help..

JudgeDredd

I always only fly Cessnas but because of this discussion I tried a jet last night and thought I heard the stall warning so cranked the engines up and lo and behold I overstressed the plane and crashed :-(

I think it'll be some time before I fly jets
Alba gu' brath

Toonces

I didn't know you were a 737 pilot Yassy- that's very cool!

I hope you guys don't mind if I hijack this thread a bit rather than start a new one...

1.  I'm thinking of getting back into FSX after never really playing it.  What are some must-have add-ons, particularly non-aircraft?
2.  One of the reasons I want to get back into FSX is I've been eyeballing this add-on called A2A Captain of the Ship for the A2A B-377 aircraft (apparently a modified B-29).  Anybody have any experience with it?
3.  If I get my B-377, can I fly online in Vatsim with it, and further, can I fly cargo in it or use it with any other add-on like this Air Hauler thing I keep hearing about?

That's all for now.

Trailer for Captain of the Ship:

"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs

Toonces

Man, I'm seriously looking at that PMDG MD-11 too.  I see that guy everyday when I'm out surfing and I've always loved the DC-10.

Kind of pricey, though...

"If you had a chance, right now, to go back in time and stop Hitler, wouldn't you do it?  I mean, I personally wouldn't stop him because I think he's awesome." - Eric Cartman

"Does a watch list mean you are being watched or is it a come on to Toonces?" - Biggs