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Digital Gaming => Computer Wargaming => Topic started by: JudgeDredd on August 09, 2017, 01:53:38 PM

Title: OOTP18
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 09, 2017, 01:53:38 PM
Hi all

I just bought OOTP18 after a little hiatus (from 15 iirc).

I was just wondering if the recovery system was working ok? Not knowing a huge amount of baseball (except I really like it), I'm confused why my pitchers are knackered.

Look at the pic below...Paxton pitched in the first game (I'm now on the 4th game) and his "battery" hasn't budged AT ALL. Same for the others. They all say exhausted. I would have imagined with 3 days rest, Paxton might be making some sort of recovery...no? At this rate I'm going to get to Paxton again before he's even remotely recovered, let alone fully recovered.

(https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4416/36071146500_ea456c10ce_o.jpg)

Any assistance would be appreciated...thanks.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: DennisS on August 09, 2017, 02:11:41 PM
The history of American baseball stretches back about 150 years or so. Until about 1920, the base balls (two words back then!) were put back in play if they were hit or thrown out of play, and soon became soft, mushy, and unable to be hit hard.

There are many, many references to starting pitchers, over many decades, saving their "stuff" for high-leverage or critical situations. They threw the ball, the ball was hit, and the game went on. Pitchers didn't throw 200 innings a season, like they do now. Routinely, pitchers pitched complete games, and had just three days rest.

A decent pitcher pitched forty games a year, and threw 300 innings...or their arm went dead. Injuries happened a lot, and I can give you tons of names of players whose careers were shortened by the overuse of their pitching arms.

....but...for a fair percentage, they worked through the pain, and/or strengthened their arms sufficiently to become a "workhorse."

OOTP18 accurately reflects the modern game of baseball. Pitchers do NOT pitch on three days rest...four is standard, or even five days. Even for their start, a "quality" start is six innings or more, giving up three runs or less.

Not sure about the zero endurance for the pitcher you described..it may be the games way of not allowing you to pitch a starter more than every fifth game.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: sandman2575 on August 09, 2017, 02:22:35 PM
JD, if you were to change Paxton's position to Relief Pitcher, or take him out of the Rotation and add him to the bullpen, you'd see that his battery 'recovers' somewhat. Like Dennis says, Starting Pitchers typically get one start every 5 games in the regular season (...things change a bit in the post-season, but never mind that for now). Relief pitchers can be used in consecutive games, though that's because they usually only pitch 1-2 innings per game.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 09, 2017, 03:06:01 PM
Thanks both.

He wasn't due to come back into play yet (it was only the 3rd game in)...I was just curious at the zero recovery rate.

However, after the 4th game, Paxton and Hernandez are now showing signs of recovery. There's another game to go where I imagine they will recover further.

Thanks.

I just thought it was odd not to see any movement in their recovery and it was coming round to their rotation.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 09, 2017, 03:14:27 PM
I've got another one for you  >:D

I was told a player was of the DL. I went to the DL screen and moved him over to the 40-man roster (where I currently have 34 out of 40). I couldn't put him on the Active Roster because I have 25 players on there - it's full.

But the game won't let me progress. I have to be honest - the DL was one thing that confused the hell out of me before. I am currently trying to look up what the DL procedure is (does he HAVE to go on the AR or demoted to the AAA? Why can't he go on the 40 man roster (where I have space)? I'm not sure what I have to do with him...why is the 40-man roster not ok? Do I have to get rid of (demote) a player (who has options) from the Active Roster?

If I have to demote him, he ain't gonna be happy. He's not an all star - but I still don't want to demote if he was on the roster (active or 40 man)

Ta


I found this on another website
Quote
Quote
Originally Posted by overkiller View Post

Remember that the 60-day DL is reserved for ML players and those on the 40-man roster. Minor leaguers are not placed on the 60-day DL. They are placed on the x-day DL (where x is the minor league DL minimum setup under Game Options for that league). Therefore, I think the issue you are having is that the player is on the 40-man roster, got hurt, placed on the 60-day DL, and now you want him back in the minors. To move a player without options back to the minors you must removed him from the 40-man roster via waivers. And thus you must put him back on the 40-man roster first.

 This may be a bug but I believe in real life, the 60-day DL is only for 40-man rostered players. So you must treat the player as if they are on the 40-man roster.

 Good luck, post if you ge a solution.

 Derald
Players on the 60 day DL get removed from the 40 man roster. When they are ready the GM must make room on the 40 man roster for them
I don't actually know if this guy was on the 60DL or not - I just got a message saying he could come off the DL. I have moved him to the 40man roster, but it's still saying he's on the DL. Do I have to DFA him?

EDIT - I've just read up on DFA and you only DFA if he's not on a roster (which he is)...still checking  :buck2:

EDIT - don't know if it's right, but I demoted a "lesser" SP to the minors and activated this guy from the DL. Having read the message again, it said I had a guy on the DL that had to be activated. I suspect I missed the popup option to activate the player (which I suddenly noticed on the last go). Once he was activated, it was sorted. I imagine as he was on the 40 man roster, selecting that option would have gotten rid of the message.

You live and learn, eh  :2funny:
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: KyzBP on August 09, 2017, 03:35:32 PM
As to your first problem, Judge, there's a setting somewhere that will start the most rested starting pitcher rather than following a strict rotation.

Problem 2, if the player is just coming off the DL the you can send him on a rehab assignment at one of your minor league clubs, usually AAA.  That will buy you some time to figure out who on your 25 man roster will be demoted to make room for your returning player.

I hope that helps.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 09, 2017, 03:43:31 PM
As to your first problem, Judge, there's a setting somewhere that will start the most rested starting pitcher rather than following a strict rotation.

Problem 2, if the player is just coming off the DL the you can send him on a rehab assignment at one of your minor league clubs, usually AAA.  That will buy you some time to figure out who on your 25 man roster will be demoted to make room for your returning player.

I hope that helps.

Thank you.

I saw the option for adjusting the rotation. It's only the first week of the season, so I'm not going to change that yet. Presumably I have to have another SP in my active roster? I currently have 5 SPs, 6 RPs and 1 Closer.

I think part of the 2nd problem was that the season has just started and I had people on the DL and I've no idea why...so I didn't know what DL he was on nor what roster (if any). But I'll plough on.  O0
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: Father Ted on August 09, 2017, 04:01:09 PM
To misquote Obelix: these Americans are crazy.  Stick to WitW JD: it's less complicated.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 09, 2017, 04:06:04 PM
I love baseball though  :notworthy:

Americans do love their "stamina" fans though with these looooong sports. 3 hours roughly for a televised game of baseball. American Football - 15 minute quarters making up a game which lasts 3-4 hours! Indy 500. Daytona 500.

But I do love 'em.   :clap:
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: mirth on August 09, 2017, 04:20:53 PM
Baseball is America's Naptime.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: bbmike on August 09, 2017, 04:31:52 PM
Baseball is America's Naptime.

 :knuppel2:
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: jamus34 on August 09, 2017, 04:58:08 PM
I love baseball though  :notworthy:

Americans do love their "stamina" fans though with these looooong sports. 3 hours roughly for a televised game of baseball. American Football - 15 minute quarters making up a game which lasts 3-4 hours! Indy 500. Daytona 500.

But I do love 'em.   :clap:

The irony is I've started getting into futbol as I never really cared for baseball and quickly losing interest in football due to all the rules and regulations they keep adding.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: Barthheart on August 09, 2017, 05:02:03 PM
Baseball is America's Naptime.

 O0
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: mirth on August 09, 2017, 05:06:53 PM
Pot stirred.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: Nefaro on August 10, 2017, 03:00:04 AM
Thanks both.

He wasn't due to come back into play yet (it was only the 3rd game in)...I was just curious at the zero recovery rate.

However, after the 4th game, Paxton and Hernandez are now showing signs of recovery. There's another game to go where I imagine they will recover further.

Thanks.

I just thought it was odd not to see any movement in their recovery and it was coming round to their rotation.




IIRC, they don't recover a steady amount after pitching a game.  It's not a straight line going up.

They tend to stay down low for a few days, then start shooting back up in a day or two before they're up again.  To represent their throwing arm being sludge for a few days after a game - heavily penalized if put in during those essential recovery days right afterward.

They also don't always fully recover before their next showing.  Varies with player abilities, age, etc.   Some recover faster than others.  The amount of fatigue they suffer per game can also vary, I think.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: Nefaro on August 10, 2017, 03:05:05 AM
I love baseball though  :notworthy:

Americans do love their "stamina" fans though with these looooong sports. 3 hours roughly for a televised game of baseball. American Football - 15 minute quarters making up a game which lasts 3-4 hours! Indy 500. Daytona 500.

But I do love 'em.   :clap:

The irony is I've started getting into futbol as I never really cared for baseball and quickly losing interest in football due to all the rules and regulations they keep adding.



The player contract rules and agreements in baseball, alone, should be enough to make you crazy.   #:-)

I'll take the situational rules of football over baseball any day.  Even now that they keep adding new ones nearly every year.

Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: JudgeDredd on August 10, 2017, 04:20:19 AM
Thanks both.

He wasn't due to come back into play yet (it was only the 3rd game in)...I was just curious at the zero recovery rate.

However, after the 4th game, Paxton and Hernandez are now showing signs of recovery. There's another game to go where I imagine they will recover further.

Thanks.

I just thought it was odd not to see any movement in their recovery and it was coming round to their rotation.




IIRC, they don't recover a steady amount after pitching a game.  It's not a straight line going up.

They tend to stay down low for a few days, then start shooting back up in a day or two before they're up again.  To represent their throwing arm being sludge for a few days after a game - heavily penalized if put in during those essential recovery days right afterward.

They also don't always fully recover before their next showing.  Varies with player abilities, age, etc.   Some recover faster than others.  The amount of fatigue they suffer per game can also vary, I think.
Yes...that's what I (eventually) noticed. Thanks.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: Nefaro on August 10, 2017, 12:32:16 PM
In OOTP, it also took me awhile to realize just how much each player's Injury frequency rating (don't recall the specific name) matters.

Even the ones rated 'Normal' tend to get injured fairly regularly.  And the ones with poorer ratings?  Treat those injury prone players like the plague; get rid of those guys ASAP.  They'll be out due to injuries a notable portion of your seasons, doing nothing but being a pain in the ass & wasted expense.   >:(
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: DennisS on August 10, 2017, 01:25:56 PM
As to your first problem, Judge, there's a setting somewhere that will start the most rested starting pitcher rather than following a strict rotation.

Problem 2, if the player is just coming off the DL the you can send him on a rehab assignment at one of your minor league clubs, usually AAA.  That will buy you some time to figure out who on your 25 man roster will be demoted to make room for your returning player.

I hope that helps.


Warning..for baseball nerds only.

Frequently...well, hell, almost ALWAYS, your worst starting pitcher will be skipped if there is a day off..so all other starters will get their normal start.

Consider the following...warning, there be math here.

Five starters, over 162 games, each get 32 starts, two get 33. If the starters give up 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 runs a game respectively, then you can anticipate giving up about 800 runs (162 times the five average). Here's where it gets interesting.

If you have your worst starter lose eight starts, due to days off, what happens? You don't give up his 56 runs (8 starts times the 7 he gives up). The OTHER starters would give up a total of .... doing the math... 28 runs, assuming each starter gets two of the extra starts each.

The difference between 56 runs allowed and 28 runs allowed is a LOT. It is the run differential that provides you your potential record, using the pythagorean method. Simply stated, it is your runs scored (squared), as compared to runs allowed (squared).

Example: You give up four (squared is 16), you score five (squared is 25). Your projected record is 25-16, or over a full MLB season, about 99 wins, and a certain playoff spot, and likely league champion, as a minimum.

WHEN you construct your team, look to do everything you can to enhance your run differential..and it don't matter how you do it. The Chicago Cubs have NEVER won a league championship without leading the National League in runs scored....as it's a hitters park. They win 10-8, or 9-6.

Ideally, you want to improve your hitting, defense, and pitching. You can absolutely project your record for the season by how you have constructed your team. As a minimum, I would strongly encourage you to do the following:

---Get an "Ace" pitcher. If you have five starters, four of whom have a 14-14 won loss record, and an Ace that is 26-4, then your overall starters records are 82-60, or a winning percentage of 57.7%, or about 94 wins, and a division championship. One, single, very dominant pitcher is just crucial if you want to compete.

--Get an "Ace" hitter at the top of the order. Consider Louis Aparacio, a Shortstop with the Chicago White Sox in the 50's and 60's. He had over 11 THOUSAND plate appearances in the Major Leagues, and is in the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, in Cooperstown, New York. Amazing place, by the way.

What's up with Louie? His on-base percentage, or OBP, LIFETIME, was 31.1%. One year, 1962, over a FULL season, his OBP was 28.0%. He got on base, by hit or walk, 172 times, and reduced this by being caught stealing 12 times. Historical chances of a run being scored by a leadoff hitter getting on base is just over 40%. He scored, for the YEAR, just 72 runs....a terrible, terrible, terribly low total. In fact, he NEVER scored 100 runs in a season, ever.

A very good leadoff hitter will get on base 40% of the times..which means, over a 700-plate appearance season, getting on base about 280 times. This is 120 times MORE than Louie, representing about 50 additional runs.

50 additional runs scored will result in about 8 additional wins a season..the math gets a little fuzzy, but trust me.

Louis Aparicio was a very good defensive player, and he gets mad props for the runs he saved....but looking closely, it ain't much. The average shortstop made 4.89 per nine innings played, his rate was 5.05. So...every nine innings, he made .16 play...or about one play a WEEK higher than league average.

The executive summary is to place your high on-base players at the top of the lineup...and if you have one with a high SLUGGING percentage, bat him 3rd or 4th. There is another term, a wonderfully descriptive one, called OPS, which is On base Plus Slugging. Not that it doesn't state batting average plus slugging..it also values walks.

I have linked Aparicio and another player, one of my favorites, Wade Boggs. Wade, between 1993 and 2001, AVERAGED getting on base 330 times a year, very close to DOUBLE what Aparicio managed.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aparilu01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boggswa01.shtml
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: KyzBP on August 10, 2017, 02:45:09 PM
As to your first problem, Judge, there's a setting somewhere that will start the most rested starting pitcher rather than following a strict rotation.

Problem 2, if the player is just coming off the DL the you can send him on a rehab assignment at one of your minor league clubs, usually AAA.  That will buy you some time to figure out who on your 25 man roster will be demoted to make room for your returning player.

I hope that helps.


Warning..for baseball nerds only.

Frequently...well, hell, almost ALWAYS, your worst starting pitcher will be skipped if there is a day off..so all other starters will get their normal start.

Consider the following...warning, there be math here.

Five starters, over 162 games, each get 32 starts, two get 33. If the starters give up 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7 runs a game respectively, then you can anticipate giving up about 800 runs (162 times the five average). Here's where it gets interesting.

If you have your worst starter lose eight starts, due to days off, what happens? You don't give up his 56 runs (8 starts times the 7 he gives up). The OTHER starters would give up a total of .... doing the math... 28 runs, assuming each starter gets two of the extra starts each.

The difference between 56 runs allowed and 28 runs allowed is a LOT. It is the run differential that provides you your potential record, using the pythagorean method. Simply stated, it is your runs scored (squared), as compared to runs allowed (squared).

Example: You give up four (squared is 16), you score five (squared is 25). Your projected record is 25-16, or over a full MLB season, about 99 wins, and a certain playoff spot, and likely league champion, as a minimum.

WHEN you construct your team, look to do everything you can to enhance your run differential..and it don't matter how you do it. The Chicago Cubs have NEVER won a league championship without leading the National League in runs scored....as it's a hitters park. They win 10-8, or 9-6.

Ideally, you want to improve your hitting, defense, and pitching. You can absolutely project your record for the season by how you have constructed your team. As a minimum, I would strongly encourage you to do the following:

---Get an "Ace" pitcher. If you have five starters, four of whom have a 14-14 won loss record, and an Ace that is 26-4, then your overall starters records are 82-60, or a winning percentage of 57.7%, or about 94 wins, and a division championship. One, single, very dominant pitcher is just crucial if you want to compete.

--Get an "Ace" hitter at the top of the order. Consider Louis Aparacio, a Shortstop with the Chicago White Sox in the 50's and 60's. He had over 11 THOUSAND plate appearances in the Major Leagues, and is in the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum, in Cooperstown, New York. Amazing place, by the way.

What's up with Louie? His on-base percentage, or OBP, LIFETIME, was 31.1%. One year, 1962, over a FULL season, his OBP was 28.0%. He got on base, by hit or walk, 172 times, and reduced this by being caught stealing 12 times. Historical chances of a run being scored by a leadoff hitter getting on base is just over 40%. He scored, for the YEAR, just 72 runs....a terrible, terrible, terribly low total. In fact, he NEVER scored 100 runs in a season, ever.

A very good leadoff hitter will get on base 40% of the times..which means, over a 700-plate appearance season, getting on base about 280 times. This is 120 times MORE than Louie, representing about 50 additional runs.

50 additional runs scored will result in about 8 additional wins a season..the math gets a little fuzzy, but trust me.

Louis Aparicio was a very good defensive player, and he gets mad props for the runs he saved....but looking closely, it ain't much. The average shortstop made 4.89 per nine innings played, his rate was 5.05. So...every nine innings, he made .16 play...or about one play a WEEK higher than league average.

The executive summary is to place your high on-base players at the top of the lineup...and if you have one with a high SLUGGING percentage, bat him 3rd or 4th. There is another term, a wonderfully descriptive one, called OPS, which is On base Plus Slugging. Not that it doesn't state batting average plus slugging..it also values walks.

I have linked Aparicio and another player, one of my favorites, Wade Boggs. Wade, between 1993 and 2001, AVERAGED getting on base 330 times a year, very close to DOUBLE what Aparicio managed.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/a/aparilu01.shtml

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/boggswa01.shtml
:notworthy:
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: matt3916 on August 10, 2017, 04:08:06 PM
"Luis" Aparicio.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: DennisS on August 10, 2017, 04:34:13 PM
"Luis" Aparicio.

Yep..and I misspelled Aparicio once, too.  Doesn't stop the fact that he sucked, hard, and is the second worst player in the Hall of Fame.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: matt3916 on August 10, 2017, 05:02:31 PM
The worst being?  Maranville maybe?
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: DennisS on August 11, 2017, 01:39:33 PM
The worst being?  Maranville maybe?

Heh heh, thanks for noticing!

Maranville did get on base 3500 times or so. There is a place for longevity guys..guys like Ripken, or Biggio. If you are playing in the majors, you are adding value to your team.

Having said that, Maranville played in the dead ball era until age 31, so you have to look at his numbers a little differently. His OPS+ was likely above a hundred until 1921..then his utter lack of power allowed his OPS to crater, compared to the rest of the league.

Unlike Aparicio, his "D" as significantly higher than league average. I would say that his defense was probably top-tier, one of the top 2-3 in the league. I like defense. I like taking hits away from batters. Baseball-reference cites that Maranville has more assists at SS than any player in baseball history. Again, part of this is longevity, but he could play, on a rate basis, too.

Look up Ozzie Smith, the second greatest fielder at ANY position in history, and see how many assists he made. Compare him to Larry Bowa. Bowa, in a GOOD year, had about 450 assists. Ozzie one year had 621, way, WAY higher than any player in history.

There are tons of shitty choices for the HoF. My choice for the worst choice is Roger Bresnahan..a career 270 or so hitter, and IIRC, only had about 1200 career hits. Phil Rizzuto gets and honorable (dishonorable?) mention.

Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: matt3916 on August 12, 2017, 03:52:55 PM
You are SUCH a tease!  OK, I'll bite (again).  Who is "the greatest fielder at ANY position in history"?  Ashburn maybe or Mays?
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: DennisS on August 12, 2017, 08:20:02 PM
You are SUCH a tease!  OK, I'll bite (again).  Who is "the greatest fielder at ANY position in history"?  Ashburn maybe or Mays?

Ashburn is an excellent choice, so is Mays. The best fielder...drum roll, please, is Mazeroski. It would take awhile to make the case, and Ozzie is absolutely in the mix as well.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: MetalDog on August 14, 2017, 08:02:50 PM
You are SUCH a tease!  OK, I'll bite (again).  Who is "the greatest fielder at ANY position in history"?  Ashburn maybe or Mays?

Ashburn is an excellent choice, so is Mays. The best fielder...drum roll, please, is Mazeroski. It would take awhile to make the case, and Ozzie is absolutely in the mix as well.

I have found my people!  <:-) <:-) <:-)  I do so love baseball.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: BanzaiCat on August 15, 2017, 08:21:11 AM
I have found my people!  <:-) <:-) <:-)  I do so love baseball watching paint dry.

FTFY  O:-)
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: mirth on August 15, 2017, 08:29:36 AM
I have found my people!  <:-) <:-) <:-)  I do so love baseball.

Yet you were remarkably quiet about the Sox/Yankees series this past weekend...
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: MetalDog on August 15, 2017, 07:36:03 PM
Came back to win Fri.  Got squashed Sat.  And our Closer blew the lead Sun.  But what do you care?  You hate baseball and the Red Sox.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: JudgeDredd on September 01, 2017, 03:44:20 PM
Got a question for you gurus

I have a player I want to keep on the DL and he's available to come off the DL.

He's on the secondary roster and has the right to refuse minors assignment. But I wouldn't want him to move to minors anyway.

Point is - he's on the DL and on the 40 man roster. What do I do with him. So he's eligible to come off the DL - but how do I take him off the DL? When a player is coming off the DL, do they HAVE to be either given an Active Roster assignment OR be demoted to the minors?

I get if he was off the 40 man roster (60 day DL) then I would have to put him on waivers and DFA. But as I said, he's on the 40 man roster and I want to keep him in my team.

So I think I have to demote another player to the minors and put this player on the active rosters, right?

Thanks
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: sandman2575 on September 01, 2017, 06:01:28 PM
You gotta make room for him somehow, if you intend to keep him in your organization. You can activate & "designate him for assignment" which will buy you an additional 10 (?) days before you have to put him on an active roster -- but if he's on the 40 man *and* can refuse minor league assignment -- you pretty much have to put him on the 25-man active roster or put him on waivers (or outright release him).
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: JudgeDredd on September 02, 2017, 05:18:37 AM
Thanks sandman

Wow. That's some complicated s*** there. Why is it like that? I presume safeguarding something? The player? The "competition" by not being able to freely swap in and out players?

I can't DFA because he's on the 40 man roster - I think he was on the 15 day DL list iirc. So I think - as I said and you confirmed - I have to make a slot in the 25 man roster. Or put him on waivers and hope he clears - which he won't (because waivers effectively offers him to other teams for free, right?). His stats are too good to allow him to go on waivers.

The problem I have with that system is if a player on the 25 man roster gets injured, then he's out the team until fixed. However, you NEED 25 men to play - so you HAVE to promote another player to take that place. That leaves you having to demote that player when the injured player is back. Also - from what I gather, that can only happen a few times then the players are "out of minor league options"

Kind of sucks (but also one of the things that intrigues me about the game)
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: sandman2575 on September 02, 2017, 08:37:48 AM
Wow. That's some complicated s*** there. Why is it like that? I presume safeguarding something? The player? The "competition" by not being able to freely swap in and out players?

Yes, it sure is complicated. I guess the way I understand the incredibly convoluted rules about baseball rosters today, is that it's an evolutionary product (and reaction to) baseball's long history of treating players like commodities to be dealt with willy nilly however ownership wanted. In some ways, the pendulum has swung very far in the opposite direction: now players (via free agency, collective bargaining, the very powerful Baseball Players Association (essentially a powerful labor union) have considerable leverage over the teams they play for, provided they have sufficient veterancy. A lot of the systems -- the 'optioning' rules for sending players between majors and minors, waivers rules, the Rule 5 draft -- are essentially in place to protect the player -- and to ensure some parity among large and small-market teams -- more than to make life easy for the team they play for.

I can't DFA because he's on the 40 man roster

My bad then -- I guess if you DFA, you're necessarily removing that player from the 40-man roster. As you know, putting a player on waivers is the only way to get a player without any option seasons remaining off the 40-man roster. Personally, I disable the "right to refuse minors assignment" rule, because it's a little too inflexible in OOTP than in real life. Teams in real life can manage to persuade a player who has the right to refuse minor-league assignment to bite the bullet anyway.


- I think he was on the 15 day DL list iirc. So I think - as I said and you confirmed - I have to make a slot in the 25 man roster. Or put him on waivers and hope he clears - which he won't (because waivers effectively offers him to other teams for free, right?). His stats are too good to allow him to go on waivers.

When you put a player on waivers, you remove him from the 40-man and offer him up to all other teams for 3(?) days -- if he clears, he's yours to do with as you please, provided he doesn't have the right to refuse minors assignment, in which case you'd have to release him.

Remember though, a team that picks up a player off waivers *now owns his contract* -- so, if you have a highly paid veteran who is performing terribly and you really need to demote him to the minors, it's possible other teams wouldn't bite, seeing him on the waiver-wire, because it would mean swallowing his contract (which could have multiple years left on it).

The problem I have with that system is if a player on the 25 man roster gets injured, then he's out the team until fixed. However, you NEED 25 men to play - so you HAVE to promote another player to take that place. That leaves you having to demote that player when the injured player is back. Also - from what I gather, that can only happen a few times then the players are "out of minor league options"

Bingo. Players in OOTP have 3 option seasons, meaning, you have 3 seasons in which you can move them at will between minor and major leagues. Once they're out of options, the 'fun' begins, in terms of making headaches for your roster management. So, it's not a problem just you have with the system -- it's a problem all managers have! Fun, right!

Kind of sucks (but also one of the things that intrigues me about the game)

I totally agree there's a perverse kind of enjoyment that comes from managing rosters, with all the bizarre rules in place. Kinda like a puzzle. If you're a slight cheater like me: disable the right to refuse minor league assignment -- dealing with that can really be infuriating in some cases.
Title: Re: OOTP18
Post by: JudgeDredd on September 02, 2017, 09:14:27 AM
That's a good idea to disable the right to refuse minors...especially as there's no mechanic in there to "persuade" the player to do so - perhaps with sweeteners or promises etc.

I might just do that - thanks.