Combat Mission status

Started by RyanE, May 27, 2018, 02:09:59 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

RyanE

"But the idea that occasional updates on progress would somehow cut into precious development time (often justified with defensive posts to the effect "what would you rather have us do? post in the forums or work on Combat Mission?") is ridiculous."


Funny, I was just checking on when the last time Steve updated anything.  Saw he was recently posting in some political discussion on the CMBS forum.  Then in another forum, a couple of the old-timers got on people about asking Steve to take time away from his important development work to answer them...#irony

Ubercat

Quote from: sandman2575 on May 28, 2018, 08:58:21 AM
Quote from: RyanE on May 28, 2018, 08:00:04 AM
I think we can consider ourselves lucky if we one of those gets done.  The track record for meeting commitments on Steve's plans is pretty poor.

Just looking at past releases...its a couple months from official announcement to final release.  And that was with a full staff.  Doesn't look like we are close to an announcement.  So if the announcement for one of those is in two weeks, we are into August before it releases.  Close to 2/3 of the year gone.  And I think that is optimistic.

Even the beta testers are now starting to carp a little about lack of info.  That is what is different now versus in the past long periods of silence.


I hate to be cynical, but my response to the Jan. 1 announcement was very much "I'll believe it when I see it."

If there is one thing that does get under my skin about Battlefront's way of doing business, it's the pretense that they're working so hard they just can't possibly find time to update the community on their progress. I have no doubt they are working hard and know it's a very small operation. But the idea that occasional updates on progress would somehow cut into precious development time (often justified with defensive posts to the effect "what would you rather have us do? post in the forums or work on Combat Mission?") is ridiculous.

The spotty dev communication coupled with the track record of underestimating how long new updates/releases are going to take make the "Look what's on the horizon for 2018!" happy talk hard to take seriously.

What gets under my skin is that Destraex buddy spent two weeks trying to get the game that he paid for to work.
"If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labelled a radical 50 years ago, a liberal 25 years ago, and a racist today."

- Thomas Sowell

Boggit

Quote from: Staggerwing on May 28, 2018, 05:45:34 AM
What's the history of companies going under and turning off their DRM along with the office lights on their way out? I don't know of any but that doesn't mean it has not happened.

More likely, if Battlefront does go under then the current Combat Mission IP and rights would end up being salable assets used to offset some of the debts. Whether that means that any new owners would honor past licenses would really be up to them, though common sense would suggest that they at least offer a hefty discount to current game owners as it would generate a quick cash infusion from lots of rebuyers.
I don't know about the US, but certainly in UK law a transfer of business contract carries with it both the assets and liabilities of the company.

Any assignment of the intellectual property rights will most likely contain provisions for the continuation of the licence to existing users on the basis that it creates a fundamental breach of contract to existing customers, with rights of action under relevant consumer protection law. An assignment of the property in Combat Mission without adequate protection for existing licensees might well be seen by the courts as an anticipatory breach of contract.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/breach-of-contract-anticipatory-breach-32653.html
The most shocking fact about war is that its victims and its instruments are individual human beings, and that these individual beings are condemned by the monstrous conventions of politics to murder or be murdered in quarrels not their own. Aldous Huxley

Foul Temptress! (Mirth replying to Gus) ;)

On a good day, our legislature has the prestige of a drunk urinating on a wall at 4am and getting most of it on his shoe. On a good day  ::) Steelgrave

It's kind of silly to investigate whether or not a Clinton is lying. That's sort of like investigating why the sky is blue. Banzai_Cat

Zulu1966

#33
Quote from: RyanE on May 27, 2018, 02:09:59 PM
So I haven't played in almost a year, but check in every couple months just to see what is going on because the BFC marketing machine is non-existent. 

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/126388-the-patch/?page=9

Looks like the natives are getting restless and the beta testers are circling the wagons for a last-man standing defense.  I am still not sure what to make of it.  Almost a year and a half after a patch created a couple issues, almost no official word from BFC on how they are handling it.

There is a rumor now that some on-again, off-again deal with the NZ MoD is holding everything up, along with departures of a couple employees.  But when these threads start popping up, expect Steve to pop in with some new roadmap and plan that will calm things down.  That is until someone points out how long its been since even a patch was released.

I get frustrated because I have all kinds of money to spend on anything they produce.  Yet I haven't spent anything in almost two years, because BFC does not appear to be in a hurry for my money.

edit: Found some info on the NZ deal...

https://www.cove.org.au/wargaming/article-experimenting-with-a-commercial-off-the-shelf-wargame-as-a-pme-tool/

Note the comment at the bottom.  Someone doesn't think its a good idea.

No desire to get involved in the rest of the comments on this thread as it seems a mixture of the same old crap. But what is the AI issue in the v4 upgrade ?

Had a look buts can't see the wheat for the chaff.

My guess is CMSF 2 is taking longer than expected. They know they need to finish it and it will likely be a hefty set of sales for them. Have seen predictions of their demise for at least the last ten years. Comments about wishing they would  go out of business  are just contemptuous.

The lack of update is disappointing and the news desert annoying yet these are all things said for years with regard to BFC yet people still post like it's the first time it's happened.

Still the same old misinformed posts about steam like it is a source of instant wealth and riches ... when there are several well documented examples around more mainstream games that it's not let Alone for a niche war game. Why people can't accept BFC have their business model and just move on from their own mythology about what steam actually does for sales ... especially since they moved on from their model of having selectivity over what games they sold on their platform to the any old shite of today.

Here is hoping CMSF sees a release dates soon. There are years of playing time in that title Alone.

Here is hoping the one guy doing all the coding. And it is one guy ... is in good health an BF continue in their own particular way in business for as long as they are able and add more excellent content to my hobby.

Depressing.
"you are the rule maker, the dictator, the mini- Stalin, Mao, Hitler, the emperor, generalissimo, the MAN. You may talk the talk and appear to be quite easy going to foster popularity, but to the MAN I say F*CK YOU." And Steve G is F******g rude ? Just another day on the BF forum ... one demented idiots reaction to BF disagreeing about the thickness of the armour on a Tiger II turret mantlet.

Boggit

@Zulu1966

I mostly agree with you. O0 I sincerely hope Battlefront continue to do well, and as you say they have had negative news for years, yet they continue to produce excellent games with a very small team.

I for one would be very sad to see them fail, but I don't expect it anytime soon either.

Like you, I think CMSF2 will be a fantastic addition to the line up, and as you say it is probably taking longer than expected. Much like JTS, Steve Grammont is usually fairly tight lipped as to development deadlines for obvious reasons.

@Destraex
Get your friend to raise a support ticket if he is having problems. So far Battlefront have dealt with 95% of my support issues within a day of raising a matter with them.
The most shocking fact about war is that its victims and its instruments are individual human beings, and that these individual beings are condemned by the monstrous conventions of politics to murder or be murdered in quarrels not their own. Aldous Huxley

Foul Temptress! (Mirth replying to Gus) ;)

On a good day, our legislature has the prestige of a drunk urinating on a wall at 4am and getting most of it on his shoe. On a good day  ::) Steelgrave

It's kind of silly to investigate whether or not a Clinton is lying. That's sort of like investigating why the sky is blue. Banzai_Cat

IICptMillerII

#35
I'm a huge fan of Combat Mission. Have been for a while. Not quite long enough to have played the original games, but I own every CMx2 game out.

The community over there seems to be in a bit of turmoil, or rather a tissy fit. It's not completely unwarranted, given the lack of information, specifically regarding a patch that is overdue in fixing a rather potent bug. I was actually one of the community members who first identified the bug. Here is the video I made showing the bug in action:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5qlEvVtLIw



In a nutshell, infantry get up and run the second indirect fires begin landing, regardless of their current cover, leadership, motivation, morale state, or training. This bug was introduced with the Engine v4 upgrade a year and a half ago. BFC has said that they know of the bug and they are working on a fix, and said fix should be ready soon, but that was back in January of this year.

I can understand the frustration many are feeling due to this. Further, they have a lot of back logged titles in development. One, a module for Fortress Italy that will bring the Italian theater to the end of WWII, was first announced years ago, but has been delayed ever since. One of the reasons for these delays is a major member of their team moving on to do different things due to burnout. He was the primary campaign and scenario maker, and as I understand it this is one of the main reasons why the Fortress Italy module has been delayed so long. Another major reason for the slower progress has been a recent defense contract with the New Zealand Defense Force, which has been mentioned here already.

I myself have grown a bit impatient, specifically with the patch to fix the infantry behavior. Yelling and screaming, or hoping the company fails though does nothing. Unfortunately there really isn't anything to do but sit back and wait for the patches and modules/games to be released. In the meantime, Shock Force is still a very fun game with tons of user made content to wade through. The dated engine can be a pain, but it certainly does not make the game unplayable. All the other titles play excellently if rolled back to Engine v3 as well.

As to the Steam debate, I really don't have any input myself. I've heard both sides, and both make convincing arguments. The reality is, for their own reasons BFC has decided to avoid Steam. It doesn't make the games any less playable for me, so I really don't mind.

Hopefully we hear from BFC soon, and new content starts to flow. In the meantime, there is plenty to keep everyone busy, including checking out the DAAR I'm doing here in the AAR section of the forums.
(Shameful plug I know) http://grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=22191.0

RyanE

http://community.battlefront.com/topic/126834-a-long-delayed-update/

Looks like the restless natives must have spurred some action.  There is also a separate update on CMSF2.  I suspect that CMSF2 is delayed because of the 10 minutes it took to post that update.

While its great that Steve finally gave an update.  Its disappointing to read that CMSF2 and the CMRT module were, once again, wholly underestimated in their state at the last update.  This is a pretty set pattern now.  Steve announcing a plan based on product XXXX being very close to done.  Then a year later announcing it wasn't as close to done as he thought.  You would think there would be a lesson-learned in their somewhere.  Not as much of an issue if he just communicated once every few months or so.

Noted he said the website is finally being updated.  It also looks like they are using some outside resources to help with some stuff.  When you go a year without a new purchasable product, and no investors, cash flow must be horrible.

Pinetree

The upgrade prices are pretty reasonable though.
Gen. Montgomery: "Your men don't salute much."
Gen. Freyberg: "Well, if you wave at them they'll usually wave back."

Jarhead0331

If they lose account, order, or license data in porting that over from the old site to the new. Wow. Can you imagine?

Really glad to hear that shock force 2 is the priority. Still sounds like it's pretty far off. I'll be pleasantly surprised if it arrives in 2018.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


RyanE

Agree on CMSF 2.  I think the only way to look at it is to set your own less optimistic expectations.  Depending on Steve will lead to disappointment, most likely.

Zulu1966

Quote from: RyanE on May 31, 2018, 05:35:32 AM
http://community.battlefront.com/topic/126834-a-long-delayed-update/

Looks like the restless natives must have spurred some action.  There is also a separate update on CMSF2.  I suspect that CMSF2 is delayed because of the 10 minutes it took to post that update.

While its great that Steve finally gave an update.  Its disappointing to read that CMSF2 and the CMRT module were, once again, wholly underestimated in their state at the last update.  This is a pretty set pattern now.  Steve announcing a plan based on product XXXX being very close to done.  Then a year later announcing it wasn't as close to done as he thought.  You would think there would be a lesson-learned in their somewhere.  Not as much of an issue if he just communicated once every few months or so.

Noted he said the website is finally being updated.  It also looks like they are using some outside resources to help with some stuff.  When you go a year without a new purchasable product, and no investors, cash flow must be horrible.

Thanks RyanE.  Good to see an explanation. Personally I thought CMSF2 appeared to be coming a bit quick. I am glad to see it is not far off now and is the priority. This is a superb set of content and will keep me occupied until the other stuff arrives.

Personally more interested in the Russian module than the Italian one...the comment about the Berlin master map particularly exciting.

Glad to see they are taking on extra help and that rumours of their demise as usual is uninformed speculation.

I imagine even just something like replacing all those fake bridges in all the campaigns and scenarios took much longer than expected.

Great they have updated everyone and look forward to more info shortly
"you are the rule maker, the dictator, the mini- Stalin, Mao, Hitler, the emperor, generalissimo, the MAN. You may talk the talk and appear to be quite easy going to foster popularity, but to the MAN I say F*CK YOU." And Steve G is F******g rude ? Just another day on the BF forum ... one demented idiots reaction to BF disagreeing about the thickness of the armour on a Tiger II turret mantlet.

RyanE

"Glad to see they are taking on extra help and that rumours of their demise as usual is uninformed speculation"

But something Steve seems to have not learned is that absence of ANY communications leads to this.  Its called marketing and even the most basic of small companies have to do some of it in small doses to survive.  Why does it take a flare up on the BFC boards to pull Steve away from Ukraine discussions and actually update his customers who would throw money at him?

Sir Slash

Once again Grogheads leads the way in spurning positive gaming developments. From our mouths to their ears.  :smiley6600:
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

Michael Dorosh

Quote from: bayonetbrant on May 27, 2018, 02:39:41 PM
I know you're more focused on the development of the game for your personal enjoyment, but if anyone is interested in actual discussions about the professional application of these types of games for military training, we don't lack for articles or discussion threads on our site for this very topic. I dare say we are far ahead of most any other general wargaming site in terms of discussing the professional applications of wargaming.

No one comes here for the articles, Hef.


Michael Dorosh

Quotebtw, what ever happened to the big website update they said delayed all their releases.  That seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Still underway but apparently imminent according to the recent post.

I'll be curious to see what has changed in CMSF2. A number of my scenarios had been included in the campaign of the original release (was it TF Thunder?).  Sounds like some of the vehicle models have been changed and a number of the original design team came back for the rerelease, so possibly there will be a number of new scenarios or even a new campaign.