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Rome II

Started by JudgeDredd, June 10, 2013, 04:28:27 PM

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Kushan

I'm going to wait before I jump on the Rome 2 band wagon. I like the setting, but between AJE/BOR and (hopefully) Hegemony Rome coming out this year, my fix for the Roman era is pretty well met. Unless Rome II turns out to actually be something new and different for the TW series, I like something more then flashy battles in strategy games, I'll probably pass or wait for the eventual steam sale.

Quote from: Martok on June 17, 2013, 11:40:06 AM
4.)  Had to first beat the game as on of the Roman families in order to unlock the other playable factions (which pissed me off enormously). 

To be fair there is a simple config file change that can be made to unlock all the faction right from the start. I'll give you all the other points though. Played RTW to death even with the bugs, mainly with the Europa Barbarorum mod.

Quote from: Sir Slash on June 17, 2013, 10:51:36 AM
So I finished my ETW- American Revolution campaign over the weekend with a win after the Brits put-up a good fight for Quebec.

Did they ever patch ETW to be something other then a bug filled mess? Been thinking for awhile of maybe going back to the grand campaign, but from what I remember the AI never did learn to move troops between the different world regions.
PanzersEast: Have to think to myself.... will I play the first one by the Winter Sale?  Probably not, then I should remove Dragonfall
PanzersEast: but that is thinking too logically.... and Steam Sales are about ignoring Logic

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Sir Slash

I didn't like ETW either when it first came out but the patches did help make it more stable and the AI less schizophrenic. But I eventually went with a mod- The American Revolution mod- that is much better than vanilla in my opinion and ETW is now my favorite TW title. I still have a vanilla campaign as Britain to finish and a TAR campaign as Russia I'm getting close. Rome 2 looks great, but all TW games look great. The flaws come-out in gameplay.
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

Gusington

Shogun 2 is by far the best of.the series and because.of that I put my faith in CA. Yes he TW series is my favorite but I too can recognize faults...ETW was so ambitious that it just crashed and burned for me, and no mod changed my mind...like what Martok says above.

All that said, I think you would love RTW if you used one of the bigger better mods Martok. Most of them are now pretty easy to use...just unzip and the mods do the work.


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We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Martok

Quote from: ComradeP on June 18, 2013, 08:28:14 AM
Winning the game with masses of urban militia and similar units was something that tired me even in MTW.
Did you ever play MTW/VI with the XL mod?  It does a good (though not perfect) job of addressing that particular issue. 



Quote from: ComradeP on June 18, 2013, 08:28:14 AM
To me, MTW is still the best title after Shogun,
Agreed, although I reserve the right to change my mind once I've gotten some more time with Shogun 2 under my belt. 



Quote from: ComradeP on June 18, 2013, 08:28:14 AM
although the AI seemingly always knowing precisely where my units were was as annoying as in other TW games.
That's because it knows to look for the birds!  Two can play at that game, you know.  ;) 





Quote from: Kushan on June 18, 2013, 09:02:40 AM
Quote from: Martok on June 17, 2013, 11:40:06 AM
4.)  Had to first beat the game as on of the Roman families in order to unlock the other playable factions (which pissed me off enormously). 

To be fair there is a simple config file change that can be made to unlock all the faction right from the start. I'll give you all the other points though. Played RTW to death even with the bugs, mainly with the Europa Barbarorum mod.
True.  Two points, though:

1.) I wouldn't have had a clue as to how to do that at the time (I'm very, very dumb when it comes to making even the simplest changes to software, including PC games).

2.) I was still angered just on principle that CA made that particular "design" decision. 





Quote from: Sir Slash on June 18, 2013, 09:51:13 AM
I didn't like ETW either when it first came out but the patches did help make it more stable and the AI less schizophrenic. But I eventually went with a mod- The American Revolution mod- that is much better than vanilla in my opinion and ETW is now my favorite TW title. I still have a vanilla campaign as Britain to finish and a TAR campaign as Russia I'm getting close. Rome 2 looks great, but all TW games look great. The flaws come-out in gameplay.
Does that mod -- or *any* mod, that you know of -- do anything to address the "Black Knight" AI that plagues Empire?  It's always been a problem in the series, but it was especially bad in ETW (and of course RTW), and remains my single biggest beef with the game.  Despite it not being my favorite period of history, I'm pretty sure I would've enjoyed Empire had it not been for the campaign AI being completely/suicidally insane. 





Quote from: Gusington on June 18, 2013, 10:53:11 AM
All that said, I think you would love RTW if you used one of the bigger better mods Martok. Most of them are now pretty easy to use...just unzip and the mods do the work.
Sorry Gus, but it's just not gonna happen.  :P  While I admit to a certain admiration for your (and others') intermittent yet persistent attempts to persuade me otherwise, Rome 1 simply holds absolutely zero -- zip, zilch, nada -- appeal for me at this point.  Rome 2 is the future now, so that's where I'm keeping my eye out.  :) 

"Like we need an excuse to drink to anything..." - Banzai_Cat
"I like to think of it not as an excuse but more like Pavlovian Response." - Sir Slash

"At our ages, they all look like jailbait." - mirth

"If we had lines here that would have crossed all of them. For the 1,077,986th time." - Gusington

"Government is so expensive that it should at least be entertaining." - airboy

"As long as there's bacon, everything will be all right." - Toonces

Gusington

You stubborn git.


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We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Nefaro

Quote from: ComradeP on June 18, 2013, 08:28:14 AM
I haven't played any of the titles released after MTW2, but I'm not inclined to preorder RTW2 with the track record of buggy/incomplete releases with a poorly scripted AI. I played RTW for only a short while before I lost any interest in the game, even with mods.


The last title, Total War Shogun 2 was a much needed improvement over previous ones.  The AI also puts up more of a challenge.

That's why so many people here are pre-ordering.  I don't think there'd be as many doing so if Shogun 2 had the same issues as the two before it.

MengJiao

Quote from: Nefaro on June 18, 2013, 02:43:06 PM
Quote from: ComradeP on June 18, 2013, 08:28:14 AM
I haven't played any of the titles released after MTW2, but I'm not inclined to preorder RTW2 with the track record of buggy/incomplete releases with a poorly scripted AI. I played RTW for only a short while before I lost any interest in the game, even with mods.


The last title, Total War Shogun 2 was a much needed improvement over previous ones.  The AI also puts up more of a challenge.

That's why so many people here are pre-ordering.  I don't think there'd be as many doing so if Shogun 2 had the same issues as the two before it.

  I agree.  I was going to skip Shogun2, but the demo was so good it completely changed my mind.  For Rome II -- I'll buy it when it comes out and I expect to have a pretty good time with it.

Sir Slash

I'm not sure exactly what the "Black Knight" AI behavior is. The latter patches to ETW did help make it less prone to go to war without reason but at the campaign start anything can happen. I think the AI's quirky behavior has to do with the game having so many factions to play against the one you're playing. Mod or no, if you keep an eye on the diplomacy screen, the powers who are unfriendly or hostile will sooner or later attack you. Some are even provoked by a Trade Treaty request. The AI can be a lot more aggressive at the harder difficulty levels too. Battle AI has changed little at all with it pretty much just coming strait at you, cavalry leading. Occasionally it will do something unexpected and against AI with arty, it can put-up a very tough fight. I like the world-wide economy model and the way the factions play differently- land vs. sea power. I don't like the pirates. ARRRGGG!
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

Gusington

How are the Ottomans in ETW? I have wanted to play as them forever and just never got around to it.


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Sir Slash

I've only played them with the American Revolution mod but a real challenge to play holding everyone at bay until you can get your economy cranked-up. Then the Ottomans can become a real powerhouse. They have some excellent new units in TAR mod including dirt-cheap militia to garrison towns. But begin able to build 18lb. cannons and already have the canister tech. And can build more powerful warships at the start than vanilla. The Ottomans and Spain are the most challenging powers to play.
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

Martok

Quote from: Gusington on June 18, 2013, 01:27:32 PM
You stubborn git.
Yup.  ;D 





Quote from: Sir Slash on June 18, 2013, 09:50:36 PM
I'm not sure exactly what the "Black Knight" AI behavior is.
Any one of the following are prime examples of Black Knight AI (and of course, they can be found in conjunction/combination as well): 

1.)  A significantly smaller faction suddenly attacking your (much larger) faction, usually because you're temporarily distracted fighting another enemy.  Bonus points if the sneak attack is woefully underpowered, and/or peters out before accomplishing anything truly useful/significant (e.g., capturing one of your towns/cities)...and therefore does absolutely nothing other than to incur your wrath against the tiny instigator. 

2.)  A faction to whom you've been a faithful friend & ally for a century suddenly turns and backstabs you for no apparent reason and/or gain. 

3.)  A faction you're at war with refuses to sign a peace/cease-fire with you, despite your faction having an utterly overwhelming advantage.  (Example:  You've conquered 4 of the other faction's 5 provinces, and all they have left to defend their last province/city are a few ragged units consisting of maybe a couple hundred troops...to face down your battle-hardened army of thousands.)  Even if you're feeling oddly generous and offer the other faction money to accept a peace agreement, they still tell you to piss off. 



As I said, AI behavior like this has been a problem all the way back to at least MTW/VI, but I found it to be far worse in Rome and especially Empire.  (Actually, I don't know if it was actually worse in Empire than in Rome; however, it felt a lot less realistic, given that nation-states during the 17th/18th century rarely fought "to the death".) 



Quote from: Sir Slash on June 18, 2013, 09:50:36 PM
The latter patches to ETW did help make it less prone to go to war without reason but at the campaign start anything can happen. I think the AI's quirky behavior has to do with the game having so many factions to play against the one you're playing. Mod or no, if you keep an eye on the diplomacy screen, the powers who are unfriendly or hostile will sooner or later attack you. Some are even provoked by a Trade Treaty request. The AI can be a lot more aggressive at the harder difficulty levels too. Battle AI has changed little at all with it pretty much just coming strait at you, cavalry leading. Occasionally it will do something unexpected and against AI with arty, it can put-up a very tough fight. I like the world-wide economy model and the way the factions play differently- land vs. sea power. I don't like the pirates. ARRRGGG!
Thanks Sir Slash.  That's pretty much what I thought. 

"Like we need an excuse to drink to anything..." - Banzai_Cat
"I like to think of it not as an excuse but more like Pavlovian Response." - Sir Slash

"At our ages, they all look like jailbait." - mirth

"If we had lines here that would have crossed all of them. For the 1,077,986th time." - Gusington

"Government is so expensive that it should at least be entertaining." - airboy

"As long as there's bacon, everything will be all right." - Toonces

Oche

Anyone who has liked MTW with mods or not should check out Stainless Steel Mod 6.4 for Kingdoms Expansion Medieval 2 TW, it does a VERY good job, turning one crappy vanilla medieval 2 game into a solid gaming experience, campaign game and battles are just excellent.

MengJiao

Quote from: Gusington on June 18, 2013, 09:55:59 PM
How are the Ottomans in ETW? I have wanted to play as them forever and just never got around to it.

  The Ottmans were by far the most fun faction.  Those monster 18-pdr field guns were a blast.  But that's about all I really remember.

Sir Slash

The ETW AI often refuses to accept very good deals to sell or swap territories but the other behaviors you listed Martok, I've not noticed a lot since the game first came out when it was bad. It seems more predictable now but will still do strange things. Alliances hold well and protectorates pretty much stay loyal. Most factions will accept peace if offered and they are losing but usually demand outrageous terms if they are making the offer. The latest version of the Empire Total Realism mod is out & looks very nice.
"Take a look at that". Sgt. Wilkerson-- CMBN. His last words after spotting a German tank on the other side of a hedgerow.

Gusington

I was afraid you'd type that, Meng.


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd