If I read the below correctly, it will premier on TV, but then subsequent episodes will be online/subscriber only? :idiot2:
Quote
Just in time for its 50th anniversary, Star Trek may be returning to the small screen.
Prolific producer Alex Kurtzman is developing a new take on the beloved sci-fi classic for TV, The Hollywood Reporter has learned. The new Star Trek has been picked up straight to series at CBS, with the premiere slated for the network in January 2017. Subsequent episodes will air on its digital and VOD platform, CBS All Access. The premiere and all subsequent episodes will then be available in the U.S. on CBS All Access, the network's digital subscription video on demand and live streaming service. Star Trek marks the first original series developed specifically for CBS All Access.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-tv-series-works-828638
(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRkNThk6X0EqrrWCqwrgUrzNLl8LWt7f0RGPFIyflsKQ8J0MFVhwA)
I think you're reading it right. Sounds like CBS is trying to get onto the streaming bandwagon like everyone else, and they know they have to draw people in. Holding Star Trek fans hostage is certainly one way, but I guarantee any such episodes will be prolifically shared on free sites throughout the Internutterwebz, so that's kind of a silly grail beacon to hope for.
Also, you can expect BD/DVDs eventually. You'll have to pay for them of course, but you'll have the advantage of hearing buzz from review outlets first.
This is one occasion when it might be beneficial not to live in the USA to watch a US show. Apparently the series will be distributed internationally, so it might be that we in the UK, for example, get the whole series on air shortly after it streams on CBS.
As an aside, are the TV networks in the USA actually hoping people will get subscriber packages to all of them? So instead of one cable package, you now have to get HBO, CBS, etc individually to be able to watch everything you could've got through a single cable package? Or am I misunderstanding?
Alex Kurtzman + 2009 Star Trek (2009) co-writer and executive producer = (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fturd.gif&hash=74b44a38bb7ae90688324b5704e7f7d274b3d95f)
^^ This does not inspire much confidence in me, I admit.
Quote from: JasonPratt on November 04, 2015, 04:38:37 PM
^^ This does not inspire much confidence in me, I admit.
Nor I. Between that, and the required subscription to CBS's streaming service, my interest in this series is already hovering at just a hair above zero.
This is interesting but I still think this show will suck. Nicholas Meyer joins new Star Trek Series (http://www.startrek.com/article/nicholas-meyer-joins-new-star-trek-series).
Quote from: bbmike on February 26, 2016, 05:34:00 PM
This is interesting but I still think this show will suck. Nicholas Meyer joins new Star Trek Series (http://www.startrek.com/article/nicholas-meyer-joins-new-star-trek-series).
Theoretically, a positive development. Will it be enough, though?
With Meyer on board, there are always possibilities.
I still haven't forgiven Meyer for Star Trek VI. One of my least favorite Trek films and not even close to what he accomplished with Wrath of Khan.
Of course, he did direct (and write a fair amount of) Wrath of Khan so I can't really be mad at the man.
The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the Meyer.
Or the Juan. :uglystupid2:
Quote from: WallysWorld on February 26, 2016, 09:14:12 PM
With Meyer on board, there are always possibilities.
What you did there, I saw it.
Quote from: mirth on February 28, 2016, 03:43:34 PM
I still haven't forgiven Meyer for Star Trek VI. One of my least favorite Trek films and not even close to what he accomplished with Wrath of Khan.
He was also very much involved in IV, and to a lesser extent in III (iirc).
That said, a ton of people loved VI, myself included -- not near the heights of II certainly, but...
Yeah, I thought The Undiscovered Country was second only to Wrath of Khan.
IV was preachy as hell, even back in the day seeing it at the theater, but it was still a great one.
Quote from: Huw the Poo on February 29, 2016, 05:21:19 PM
Yeah, I thought The Undiscovered Country was second only to Wrath of Khan.
<smh> You guys kill me.
The even-numbered movies were great. II was by far the best. I liked IV and VI equally but thought VI was an excellent send-off for the main cast, and liked how it dovetailed into the back end of TNG.
The odd-numbered ones were weird (I), dull (III), or just plain stupid (V).
The TNG movies weren't all that great. I thought most of them were very disappointing. First Contact is probably the best one with Nemesis being Star Trek V levels of retarded.
3 was great! It had some of the best moments of all the movies!
If you can watch this without tearing up, you have no soul
Quote from: mirth on February 29, 2016, 06:38:03 PM
3 was great! It had some of the best moments of all the movies!
I think my most difficult hurdle for III was seeing Saavik as some other chick that looked like a dried-up MILF porn queen. It's a shame that Kirstie couldn't reprise her role; godDAMN she was hot. Even fat Kirstie was hawt. Hell, 65-year-old Kirstie puts a lot of chicks half her age to great shamefrul!
I did like Christopher Lloyd as the Klingon, but in all honesty, the dude is a comedian, and I just couldn't take him seriously. There was a comedian in the 80s (Maurice LaMarche, I think) who did a GREAT Chris Lloyd as a Klingon impression...wish I could find a video of it but can't..."Kirk, you won't give me the Genesis Device? ... Okey doke!" :2funny:
III was very underwhelming, but I will begrudgingly say of the three odd ones, it's probably the better of the three.
Fat Kirstie Alley was not hot. She stopped being hot a few seasons before Cheers ended.
Christopher Lloyd was an odd choice for a Klingon, but no more so than Christopher Plummer was in VI.
Quote from: mirth on February 29, 2016, 06:44:40 PM
If you can watch this without tearing up, you have no soul
I guess I can give you that. I'd forgotten about the scene actually, so maybe I don't have one after all.
But then there's this:
Data's "Oh shiiit" moment was probably the only time that movie actually elicited a response from me. ;D
I will say this: THIS scene still manages to put a chill up my spine when the music crescendos as the Reliant is coming right at the viewer.
I've always wondered why Frakes never did anything else. He was great as Riker.
Yeah he was, once he grew the beard. ;D
They didn't age too gracefully though. Well...maybe Marina Sirtis did. :smitten:
I don't think he's had to do anything else. And his wife is pretty much all set too. They summer in Maine and enjoy life.
Quote from: mirth on February 29, 2016, 07:08:19 PM
I don't think he's had to do anything else. And his wife is pretty much all set too. They summer in Maine and enjoy life.
Oh well hell, summering in Maine explains it all ;) It's a good life though, make your mark and retire while you're still young. At least he didn't end up like Nick Cage.
Is Nick Cage still alive?
Quote from: mirth on February 29, 2016, 07:55:03 PM
Is Nick Cage still alive?
Yes, I think he's currently starring in 16,424 different movies this year.
Quote from: Steelgrave on February 29, 2016, 07:04:37 PM
I've always wondered why Frakes never did anything else. He was great as Riker.
He did a few guest spots on things like NCIS: LA and also sold a Frakes-ton of Alien Autopsy DVDs. Also, he is supposed to be playing Star Lord's dad in the next GotG movie, iirc.
That last one could be fun 8)
What?! Star Lord's dad?!!!
If they were really clever, they'd make John De Lancie Star Lord's dad.
Quote from: mirth on February 29, 2016, 08:20:20 PM
If they were really clever, they'd make John De Lancie Star Lord's dad.
Q will be 68 on March 20.
Omg. De Lancie and I share a birthday!
Quote from: mirth on February 29, 2016, 07:55:03 PM
Is Nick Cage still alive?
He should have died for this.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on February 29, 2016, 09:07:25 PM
Quote from: mirth on February 29, 2016, 07:55:03 PM
Is Nick Cage still alive?
He should have died for this.
Is that my old Commodore 64 in front of Tommy Lee? And how the hell did they let any of them make any movies after this one?
Firebirds. Thanks for that friggin memory.
Yep. Fire Birds. A total stinking POS of a movie that I actually spent money on to see at the theater. :buck2:
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on February 29, 2016, 09:22:07 PM
Yep. Fire Birds. A total stinking POS of a movie that I actually spent money on to see at the theater. :buck2:
Hahaha!
I imagine that's how Brant did things in his tank, screaming "I AM THE GREATEST" at the top of his lungs while pounding hell out of stationary, helpless targets. ;)
While playing, "Ride of the Valkyries" over an amped-up stereo system?
Naw. This was what, the early-to-mid-90s? Probably more like Ace Of Base. ;D
Quote from: Steelgrave on February 29, 2016, 07:04:37 PM
I've always wondered why Frakes never did anything else. He was great as Riker.
Frakes has been doing a lot of work as a TV director on some popular shows, so he's not hurting for employment. :coolsmiley: Out of the TNG crew, he came out easily second best in an after career, with Wil Wheaton pulling maybe a distant third.
Plus I'm sure he gets lots of residuals for his role as Xanatos on
Gargoyles >:D
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on February 29, 2016, 09:22:07 PM
Yep. Fire Birds. A total stinking POS of a movie that I actually spent money on to see at the theater. :buck2:
So did I. I had forgotten how horrific it truly is.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on February 29, 2016, 06:36:36 PM
The even-numbered movies were great. II was by far the best. I liked IV and VI equally but thought VI was an excellent send-off for the main cast, and liked how it dovetailed into the back end of TNG.
For me,
The Undiscovered Country is actually tied with
Wrath of Khan as my 2nd-favorite Trek film. I really liked VI's themes (the Cold War parallel, Kirk's ruminations with both Spock & McCoy over his conflicted feelings regarding peace with the Klingons, etc.), as well as it being a great sendoff for the TOS crew and a "passing of the torch" to the TNG crew.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on February 29, 2016, 06:36:36 PM
The odd-numbered ones were weird (I), dull (III), or just plain stupid (V).
While certainly not the greatest Trek movie, I've come to appreciate
The Search for Spock a lot more than I once did. There's no denying TMP and TFF are bad, however -- TMP in particular. Even
The Final Frontier I don't find completely irredeemable; I can enjoy it in a campy/cheesy "so bad it's good" sort of way when I'm in the mood for it.
The Motion Picture, however, is simply straight-up awful; I'm still amazed the franchise survived it.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on February 29, 2016, 06:36:36 PM
The TNG movies weren't all that great. I thought most of them were very disappointing. First Contact is probably the best one with Nemesis being Star Trek V levels of retarded.
I loved
First Contact; it remains my favorite of the ten Star Trek films. I'm sure that's at least partially because I'm admittedly more of a TNG than TOS fan, but I also genuinely enjoyed the twin storylines as well -- the "great" Zepham Cochrane turning out to be very human after all, and watching Picard's mind become warped/twisted by hate/revenge -- is always worth seeing in my book.
No question, though that the other TNG films were pretty "meh" at best, and
Nemesis was downright horrible. To this day, I find it a tragic irony that what are (for me) the two worst movies in the franchise are the first and last ones. :-\
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on February 29, 2016, 06:45:54 PM
I think my most difficult hurdle for III was seeing Saavik as some other chick that looked like a dried-up MILF porn queen. It's a shame that Kirstie couldn't reprise her role; godDAMN she was hot. Even fat Kirstie was hawt. Hell, 65-year-old Kirstie puts a lot of chicks half her age to great shamefrul!
That's ironic, because I actually liked Robin Curtis as Saavik *much* better than Kirstie Alley; I thought she was an improvement in every way. I felt Curtis did a better job of playing the character, in addition to which her facial features better match what I'd expect a stereotypical Vulcan female to look like.
Also, Curtis has generally aged better than Kirstie Alley as well. Not that either would likely still be considered a "looker" at this point in their lives (not surprisingly), but if I was going to shag one of them, I'd much sooner do so with Curtis. ;)
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on February 29, 2016, 06:45:54 PM
I did like Christopher Lloyd as the Klingon, but in all honesty, the dude is a comedian, and I just couldn't take him seriously. There was a comedian in the 80s (Maurice LaMarche, I think) who did a GREAT Chris Lloyd as a Klingon impression...wish I could find a video of it but can't..."Kirk, you won't give me the Genesis Device? ... Okey doke!" :2funny:
I see where you're coming from. Yet despite all his comedic roles, I was totally able to buy into his Lloyd's character as Commander Kruge. Maybe it was because he was just a complete, unremitting bastard? I dunno.
Fun fact: Marc Okrand, who's considered the main inventor of the Klingon language (the late James Doohan also gets partial credit), once stated that of all the actors who have played Klingon characters, Christopher Lloyd apparently spoke the language with the best/most authentic "accent". 8)
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on February 29, 2016, 06:45:54 PM
III was very underwhelming, but I will begrudgingly say of the three odd ones, it's probably the better of the three.
As I stated near the beginning of this post, I've come to enjoy
The Search for Spock much more than I did when I was younger. I'm not entirely certain as to why, although I suspect it's for at least some of the following reasons (in no particular order):
1.) The entire movie is pretty much about The Power of Friendship (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ThePowerOfFriendship)...and it's done very well.
2.) The scene(s) where the crew breaks McCoy out of the psych ward and then steals the Enterprise is made of pure awesome. (Hell, the movie is worth watching just for that alone!)
3.) The themes of death & rebirth, and balances being maintained thereof (i.e., Kirk's son David sacrificing himself so that Spock & Saavik might live).
4.) He may be somewhat two-dimensional, but Kruge is still such a wonderfully over-the-top villain that he's fun to watch anyway. :D
5.) Watching Kirk's heart break not once, not twice, but
three times: First, when Sarek mind-melds with him, and he's forced to re-live Spocks' death; second, when David is killed; and third, when he blows up the Enterprise. (You almost grieve with him more for that last one than anything else; that ship was his lady, his true love.) His character truly suffers a great deal in this film.
Anyway, those are some of the reasons I like III; there are undoubtedly more I'm not thinking of right now.
The Search for Spock still isn't a great Star Trek movie, no, but I have come to believe it may have been under-rated all this time.
I can't disparage any of your feedback, Martok.
In fact I'd point out that First Contact disappointed me at first. I'd grown up with TOS (my stepdad was a HUGE fan of it and I absorbed a lot of the extraneous stuff that was out there, like the various Star Trek Guide publications (Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise, Star Fleet books, etc.), so I grew up knowing that Zephram Cochrane was from Alpha Centauri. So, he had two thumbs on each hand. Seeing him as a human was some retcon BS and I think that revelation made me resist enjoying First Contact to an extent, at least that first time I saw it (at the theater, too).
Eventually it became my favorite. I rank the ST movies like this:
#1 - ST II Wrath of Khan - natch
#2 - First Contact - grew on me greatly
#3 - ST VI The Undiscovered Country - great send-off for the main cast
#4 - ST IV The Voyage Home - preachy, but I still enjoyed its tempo, humor, and time travel aspects
#5 - Insurrection - somewhat underrated, if underwhelming, but still a decent movie...but feels a LOT more like an episode of TNG instead of a movie
#6 - ST III The Search for Spock - this doesn't rate highly with me, but it's not the worst one by far
#7 - Generations - oh God I SO wanted to love this movie...I didn't like what they did at all with the characters
#8 - ST I The Motion Picture - liked it a lot as a kid, and honestly some scenes are still stunning, but overall it's a crap movie
T #9 - ST V The Final Frontier / Nemesis - hard to say which one is worse
Admittedly, David's death in III was kind of stunning. What's more unfortunate is the actor himself died of AIDS complications five years afterwards.
Wow there is some strong Trek nerd power in this thread. :D
I rewatched ST III last night on Netflix. It holds up very well.
Quote from: Bison on March 03, 2016, 10:07:13 AM
Wow there is some strong Trek nerd power in this thread. :D
Hey now. I've only been to ONE Star Trek convention in my life - and went with a GIRL, too (my GF at the time). Marina Sirtis and Majel Barrett were there doing autographs for free (what a concept) and I remember I couldn't look Marina in the eyes, she was far too gorgeous and friendly...lol. Majel was a sweetheart too.
Brent Spiner was there as well, but he didn't make an appearance to sign autographs, though he did speak and he was hilarious.
That's all I know, man! :-\
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 03, 2016, 10:15:17 AM
Quote from: Bison on March 03, 2016, 10:07:13 AM
Wow there is some strong Trek nerd power in this thread. :D
Hey now. I've only been to ONE Star Trek convention in my life - and went with a GIRL, too (my GF at the time). Marina Sirtis and Majel Barrett were there doing autographs for free (what a concept) and I remember I couldn't look Marina in the eyes, she was far too gorgeous and friendly...lol. Majel was a sweetheart too.
Brent Spiner was there as well, but he didn't make an appearance to sign autographs, though he did speak and he was hilarious.
That's all I know, man! :-\
My youngest (who is 30) still has autographed pics of Marina Sirtis and Rene Auberjonois hanging over his desk. Trek runs deep in my family.
Quote from: Bison on March 03, 2016, 10:07:13 AM
Wow there is some strong Trek nerd power in this thread. :D
Not that strong if they are bashing Star Trek: TMP. ::)
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 03, 2016, 09:46:17 AM
I can't disparage any of your feedback, Martok.
In fact I'd point out that First Contact disappointed me at first. I'd grown up with TOS (my stepdad was a HUGE fan of it and I absorbed a lot of the extraneous stuff that was out there, like the various Star Trek Guide publications (Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise, Star Fleet books, etc.), so I grew up knowing that Zephram Cochrane was from Alpha Centauri. So, he had two thumbs on each hand. Seeing him as a human was some retcon BS and I think that revelation made me resist enjoying First Contact to an extent, at least that first time I saw it (at the theater, too).
Fair enough. I've only ever been vaguely aware of Cochrane's original background (while I've seen most of the "classic" episodes, I admittedly was never the biggest biggest TOS fan), so I'm probably going to have less appreciation over having an important in-universe character's origin story changed; I can certainly see how that might affect one's enjoyment (or lack thereof) of
First Contact.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 03, 2016, 09:46:17 AM
Eventually it became my favorite. I rank the ST movies like this:
#1 - ST II Wrath of Khan - natch
#2 - First Contact - grew on me greatly
#3 - ST VI The Undiscovered Country - great send-off for the main cast
#4 - ST IV The Voyage Home - preachy, but I still enjoyed its tempo, humor, and time travel aspects
#5 - Insurrection - somewhat underrated, if underwhelming, but still a decent movie...but feels a LOT more like an episode of TNG instead of a movie
#6 - ST III The Search for Spock - this doesn't rate highly with me, but it's not the worst one by far
#7 - Generations - oh God I SO wanted to love this movie...I didn't like what they did at all with the characters
#8 - ST I The Motion Picture - liked it a lot as a kid, and honestly some scenes are still stunning, but overall it's a crap movie
T #9 - ST V The Final Frontier / Nemesis - hard to say which one is worse
Your list isn't terribly different from my own, and I concur with your characterizations for most of them (the one about Insurrection feeling more like a TV episode than a movie especially resonates, and is a common critique). I personally rank the films thusly:
1.) First Contact
T 2.) Wrath of Khan; The Undiscovered Country
4.) The Voyage Home
5.) The Search for Spock
6.) Insurrection
7.) Generations
8.) The Final Frontier
T 9.) The Motion Picture; Nemesis
The first five listed (through SfS) I all consider to be some level of "good/decent", and I find to be fun enough that no arm-twisting is required to get me to sit down and watch them. I also Insurrection, Generations, and even TFF, but I have to be in the right mood to watch them. I only watch TMP and Nemesis as part of a Trek marathon and/or some mad sense of (masochistic) fanboy "duty". ::) :buck2:
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 03, 2016, 09:46:17 AM
Admittedly, David's death in III was kind of stunning. What's more unfortunate is the actor himself died of AIDS complications five years afterwards.
Yeah, I remember watching an interview (maybe an extra on the DVD?) where the aforementioned Robin Curtis talked about the late Merritt Butrick and his passing. Apparently they got to be good friends while filming III, and she took his death pretty hard.
Quote from: Bison on March 03, 2016, 10:07:13 AM
Wow there is some strong Trek nerd power in this thread. :D
Well in my specific case, one must understand that it was my exposure to Star Trek that helped make me realize that I *was* a nerd. :P A good chunk of my formative years were spent sitting on the couch in the family room next to my dad, watching reruns of The Original Series with him; we went and saw all the films together as well (except for TMP and WoK, which we watched at home on VHS -- I remember we both wept when Spock died). Likewise, we watched all (or at least most) of the episodes of TNG when that series came out.
Star Trek spurred my love of science-fiction, and (ultimately/indirectly) got me not just into reading, but gaming as well. For better or worse, it's had a pretty significant influence on the person I am today. So small wonder that I often geek out on it (and why I can nerd-rage over it at times). :D
Quote from: bbmike on March 03, 2016, 10:44:12 AM
Quote from: Bison on March 03, 2016, 10:07:13 AM
Wow there is some strong Trek nerd power in this thread. :D
Not that strong if they are bashing Star Trek: TMP. ::)
Dude, have you actually *watched* TMP lately? Or even in the last ten years? I mean, I totally respect that it's the first Trek film and all, but seriously, there's a reason it almost killed the franchise. O:-)
You people and your Star Trek film lists ::)
It goes like this:
1. Wrath of Khan
2. Search for Spock
3. First Contact
4. Voyage Home
5. The Motion Picture
6. Undiscovered Country
7. Nemesis
8. Generations
9. Final Frontier
I agree with BC about the retconning of Zephram Cochrane in First Contact. It bothered me too. It was a huge departure from established canon. However, First Contact stands on it's own as a solid action/adventure Trek story and it's the only good TNG movie.
Quote from: mirth on March 03, 2016, 02:11:32 PM
You people and your Star Trek film lists ::)
It goes like this:
1. Wrath of Khan
2. Search for Spock
3. First Contact
4. Voyage Home
6. The Motion Picture
5. Undiscovered Country
7. Nemesis
8. Generations
9. Final Frontier
I agree with BC about the retconning of Zephram Cochrane in First Contact. It bothered me too. It was a huge departure from established canon. However, First Contact stands on it's own as a solid action/adventure Trek story and it's the only good TNG movie.
Aside from the fact that you have VI ranked too low and I and Nemesis both ranked way too high, you're missing Insurrection. ;)
Y'all have been drinking too early in the day.... :P
It's like this:
1. Wrath of Khan
2. Undiscovered Country
3. First Contact
.....
And all the rest.
Quote from: Martok on March 03, 2016, 02:15:51 PM
Quote from: mirth on March 03, 2016, 02:11:32 PM
You people and your Star Trek film lists ::)
It goes like this:
1. Wrath of Khan
2. Search for Spock
3. First Contact
4. Voyage Home
5. The Motion Picture
6. Undiscovered Country
7. Nemesis
8. Generations
9. Final Frontier
I agree with BC about the retconning of Zephram Cochrane in First Contact. It bothered me too. It was a huge departure from established canon. However, First Contact stands on it's own as a solid action/adventure Trek story and it's the only good TNG movie.
Aside from the fact that you have VI ranked too low and I and Nemesis both ranked way too high, you're missing Insurrection. ;)
Insurrection, meh. Drop it in there some place after Undiscovered Country and before Final Frontier.
Well, god bless you both anyway for leaving out those two recent Trek Wars garbage movies! O0
Quote from: Martok on March 03, 2016, 01:58:28 PM
Dude, have you actually *watched* TMP lately? Or even in the last ten years? I mean, I totally respect that it's the first Trek film and all, but seriously, there's a reason it almost killed the franchise. O:-)
You must understand I was 13 when I saw it. My love for Star Trek started at a very early age. To see it on the big screen was, well, awesome. Yeah, it's not the best of the movies but it IS Star Trek. And actually, I think it was key to saving the franchise. Star Trek II would have been very different had the first movie been any different. :)
The thing is that there was a decent movie lost in the hours of special effects of TMP. And it was more real science fiction than the rest of the movies tended to have (they're heavy on the fiction, light on the science). Anyway, my opinion of TMP has gone way up over the years as the franchise has produced some real turkeys.
Most of my problems with Undiscovered Country stem from sloppy writing/storytelling. The Klingon quoting Shakespeare was a lazy recreation of Khan quoting Moby Dick. And c'mon that galley scene was redonkulous! Since TOS, replicators have been beaten into our brains and then all of a sudden the Enterprise has a full friggin galley! WTF?! Oh and on top of that, there's a phaser mounted on the wall IN THE GALLEY! Sure that makes total sense! :crazy2:
I expected much better from the man who directed (and largely wrote) Wrath of Khan.
Quote from: mirth on March 03, 2016, 02:33:49 PM
The Klingon quoting Shakespeare was a lazy recreation of Khan quoting Moby Dick.
That's a running gag, though, throughout the series but especially the films. "There is an old Vulcan proverb: only Nixon could go to China." I didn't see it as at all serious; it was yet another one of many such gags.
Quote from: mirth on March 03, 2016, 02:33:49 PM
And c'mon that galley scene was redonkulous! Since TOS, replicators have been beaten into our brains and then all of a sudden the Enterprise has a full friggin galley! WTF?!
Easy, big boy. There is indeed a full galley; it's mostly used for special occasions like a Flag Admiral being present or other such celebratory things. Not all Starfleet ships have them, but since the Enterprise is up there (as are all ships in her class), they have the set-up to handle just about any occasion, from space bar mitzvahs to burfdays or whatever.
Quote from: mirth on March 03, 2016, 02:33:49 PM
Oh and on top of that, there's a phaser mounted on the wall IN THE GALLEY! Sure that makes total sense! :crazy2:
Well..."plot device."
Or you could explain it away by saying maybe they were at a higher level of alert, so weapons get distributed to easy-to-reach places? I know that's super-weak, but I'm tryin'! (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fslangit.com%2Fimg%2Fsc%2Fyahoo_messenger%2Fnerd.gif&hash=210d9f30c9ce2faa9c8d861f5a9d369345d00f4e)
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 03, 2016, 05:02:55 PM
Easy, big boy. There is indeed a full galley; it's mostly used for special occasions like a Flag Admiral being present or other such celebratory things. Not all Starfleet ships have them, but since the Enterprise is up there (as are all ships in her class), they have the set-up to handle just about any occasion, from space bar mitzvahs to burfdays or whatever.
But in Journey to Babel they fed the diplomats those funny colored cube thingys!
Oh and don't get me started on Spock's new female Vulcan protege who quotes regs to Kirk exactly like Saavik did in Wrath of Khan! And Imam having the hots for old, fat Kirk and every other rehashed Star Trek plot element they could cram into the damned film!!!!
Quote from: bbmike on March 03, 2016, 06:31:12 PM
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 03, 2016, 05:02:55 PM
Easy, big boy. There is indeed a full galley; it's mostly used for special occasions like a Flag Admiral being present or other such celebratory things. Not all Starfleet ships have them, but since the Enterprise is up there (as are all ships in her class), they have the set-up to handle just about any occasion, from space bar mitzvahs to burfdays or whatever.
But in Journey to Babel they fed the diplomats those funny colored cube thingys!
Andorian and Tellarite ambassadors don't warrant special treatment.
I'm not sure that the Constitution-class actually had full galleys or not. The NX-01 class did, but we don't see an example of that again until ST VI. That I know of, anyway.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 03, 2016, 07:57:44 PM
I'm not sure that the Constitution-class actually had full galleys or not. The NX-01 class did, but we don't see an example of that again until ST VI. That I know of, anyway.
So the first time we actually see a friggin galley on a Federation Starship is in Undiscovered Country. Enterprise came years later and they retconned so much shit into that show we'd need to start a new thread just for bitching about that.
I'll grant you this much, since they were being sent on a history making rendezvous with the Klingon Chancellor, maybe the party planners at Star Fleet decided to install a galley before they left Space Dock. That's a stretch, but I could buy it. The phaser mounted on the galley wall? Um no.
Quote from: mirth on March 03, 2016, 08:06:02 PM
I'll grant you this much, since they were being sent on a history making rendezvous with the Klingon Chancellor, maybe the party planners at Star Fleet decided to install a galley before they left Space Dock. That's a stretch, but I could buy it. The phaser mounted on the galley wall? Um no.
I have the deck plans for the Constitution-class somewhere but don't feel like digging them out (plus I'm not exactly sure where they are, so there's that).
Phaser-on-the-wall...dunno what to tell you other than what I said...or maybe that G'ak gets ornery sometimes and objects to being served as dinner, and needs a reminder of who is at the top of the food chain?
I don't want an explanation. It was stupid.
And I want to see those deck plans. Are they the official Andrew Probert plans?
No, it's these:
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/star-trek-blueprints.php
My grandfather gave me this back in 1975. My copies are pretty worn.
I don't see a galley.
And you probably won't, since none of the images link to actual full-sized blueprints (except the last one, but that's just the nacelle).
I used to have a set of these.
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/star-trek-the-motion-picture.php
Wish I still had them.
^ A friend of mine had those. I remember being really excited to see them, but when I did, I was pretty much WTF because there were no actual decks depicted like in the 1975 set. That was very disappointing.
He did have a pretty sweet timeline book that showed space travel from Sputnik to Star Trek. Pretty cool stuff.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 03, 2016, 08:19:30 PM
No, it's these:
http://www.cygnus-x1.net/links/lcars/star-trek-blueprints.php
My grandfather gave me this back in 1975. My copies are pretty worn.
Your grandfather was awesome!
Oh, the stories I could tell. He was kind of a jerk 24/7 actually, but he had a few moments here and there.
To the previous good points for III, allow me to add: another rousing score by James Horner!
ST:I, directed by no less than Robert Wise, was trying to out-2001 Kubrick's 2001. With a plotline that had become cliche in the series itself, which didn't help. But I'll watch ST:I any day over 2001, so I feel like they succeeded.
Not that I'd go out of my way to watch either of those movies. But ST:I does feature the Jerry Goldsmith score that would come back many years later to be the primary theme for TNG.
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 04, 2016, 09:48:33 AM
To the previous good points for III, allow me to add: another rousing score by James Horner!
ST:I, directed by no less than Robert Wise, was trying to out-2001 Kubrick's 2001. With a plotline that had become cliche in the series itself, which didn't help. But I'll watch ST:I any day over 2001, so I feel like they succeeded.
Not that I'd go out of my way to watch either of those movies. But ST:I does feature the Jerry Goldsmith score that would come back many years later to be the primary theme for TNG.
Plus it introduced THE best looking version of the USS Enterprise. Ever.
Quote from: bbmike on March 04, 2016, 09:59:29 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on March 04, 2016, 09:48:33 AM
To the previous good points for III, allow me to add: another rousing score by James Horner!
ST:I, directed by no less than Robert Wise, was trying to out-2001 Kubrick's 2001. With a plotline that had become cliche in the series itself, which didn't help. But I'll watch ST:I any day over 2001, so I feel like they succeeded.
Not that I'd go out of my way to watch either of those movies. But ST:I does feature the Jerry Goldsmith score that would come back many years later to be the primary theme for TNG.
Plus it introduced THE best looking version of the USS Enterprise. Ever.
100% agree that the original cast movies' Enterprise was definitely the best. I have Art Asylum's Enterprise from both Star Trek II and Star Trek III with the latter showing battle damage. On top of that, I have Excelsior, Reliant and Kronos One hand built models hanging over my desk.
I really hope that this new series will take place during the original cast movie era.
My rankings for the first ten movies:
1. Wrath of Khan
2. The Voyage Home
3. The Undiscovered Country
4. First Contact
5. The Motion Picture
6. The Search for Spock
7. Generations
8. The Final Frontier
9. Insurrection
10. Nemesis
How can you guys put any of them below Final Frontier? That movie was a total embarrassment. I actually walked out of theater when I first saw it. I never hated Shatner more than for that piece of garbage.
Sorry, Nemesis and Insurrection both bored me big time.
The battle in Nemesis went on and on and on...and I still don't know why Shinzon wanted to destroy the Federation or why the Romulan Empire decided that an 18 year old human clone would be the best person to run the Empire.
Insurrection was just unrealistic when the Enterprise's crew basically mutinied saying that the lives of 150 or so people matter more than saving the lives of billions of people if the rejuvenation effects would have been successfully harnessed. Picard rebelled against Admiral Dougherty before he knew exactly why and what the Son'a were up to.
The Final Frontier's real problem is poor implementation of the movie and not so much poor story.
But I must admit that I'm a big original crew fan so that probably taints my list.
Quote from: mirth on March 03, 2016, 02:11:32 PM
I agree with BC about the retconning of Zephram Cochrane in First Contact. It bothered me too. It was a huge departure from established canon.
I don't know. I think it made a lot of sense. How many people do we portray one way, but if we could go back and interact with them, find that they were nothing like that. Cochranes portrayal in First Contact is the perfect example of Almost the Wrong Person, at Almost the Wrong Time, in Almost the Wrong Place. But when the moment came that the person is known for was, somehow, able to make it work.
Quote from: mirth on March 04, 2016, 10:59:36 AM
How can you guys put any of them below Final Frontier? That movie was a total embarrassment. I actually walked out of theater when I first saw it. I never hated Shatner more than for that piece of garbage.
It had one thing Insuckrection and Nemesis didn't. The original crew.
Quote from: bbmike on March 04, 2016, 12:53:39 PM
Quote from: mirth on March 04, 2016, 10:59:36 AM
How can you guys put any of them below Final Frontier? That movie was a total embarrassment. I actually walked out of theater when I first saw it. I never hated Shatner more than for that piece of garbage.
It had one thing Insuckrection and Nemesis didn't. The original crew.
Kirk, Spock, and McCoy singing "Row, Row, Row Your Boat" and making fart jokes around a campfire. Uhura's fan dance. Kirk back-talking God. All high points for the franchise :D
You also forgot Spock having a brother no one never knew about. :buck2:
And Spock's father having a previous marriage to a Vulcan princess.
I tried to forget that. :(
My favorite thing in the entire movie was the periscope gunnery system on the Bird of Prey. That and the punk rock Klingon commander.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.startrek.com%2Fuploads%2Fassets%2Fdb_articles%2F5161e5946e5ab2b6877d714ead20d47647ef6ceb.jpg&hash=eb3e1c8c285ef83b9c3e294fa6bd465caaf6786d)
I really loved it when he had to apologize to Kirk.
Quote from: WallysWorld on March 04, 2016, 11:59:43 AM
The battle in Nemesis went on and on and on...and I still don't know why Shinzon wanted to destroy the Federation or why the Romulan Empire decided that an 18 year old human clone would be the best person to run the Empire.
Nemesis sucked because it tried to be the TNG version of Wrath of Kahn...the problem being that the screenplay was written by a bad fanfic writer (generally a redundant term, I know ::) ). The dialogue was complete trash, and the plot holes were so hilariously big -- and numerous -- that you could fly an armada of Borg cubes through them.
Nemesis and Insurrection are the only two movies I saw in the theater and never watched again.
Nemesis was dumb, but I liked Tom Hardy in it. They retconned a bunch of shit about the Romulans that pissed me off.
I didn't bother seeing Nemesis in the theater. I did go to see Insurrection. I actually despise that more than Nemesis.
Quote from: mirth on March 04, 2016, 04:46:39 PM
Nemesis was dumb, but I liked Tom Hardy in it. They retconned a bunch of shit about the Romulans that pissed me off.
Yeah, the Romulan stuff was really stupid.
They should just do a movie or, better yet, a show based on the Diane Duane Romulan novels. Those are epic.
I read The Wounded Sky by Diane Duane many, many years ago. It was so horrible I never read anything by her again. A friend of mine said the Rihannsu stuff was good but I couldn't bring myself to read it. Maybe I should try one more time.
Wounded Sky was her first Trek novel and not her best. Try My Enemy, My Ally. If you don't like that, you won't like the rest.
I've read a ton of Trek novels and she is, by far, my favorite Trek author.
Wait. I think I did read My Enemy, My Ally. Wasn't that the one where the Romulan commander from Balance of Terror was supposedly in love with Kirk all along? ::)
Not really. It had the niece of the commander from Balance of Terror and she basically defects to help Kirk and crew stop the Romulans from completing some nasty genetic experiments. She actually hates Kirk for the disgrace he brought to her family name.
Hmm, I think I need to read it again.
It's one of my favorites, not just for Trek but scifi in general.
Quote from: mirth on March 04, 2016, 04:54:22 PM
They should just do a movie or, better yet, a show based on the Diane Duane Romulan novels. Those are epic.
Couldn't agree more!
Quote from: mirth on March 04, 2016, 05:07:59 PM
I've read a ton of Trek novels and she is, by far, my favorite Trek author.
Again, agreed. I'm not sure what exactly it is or how she does it, but Diane Duane does a better job than anyone of capturing that Star Trek "feel" and putting it to paper.
Quote from: mirth on March 04, 2016, 05:12:17 PM
Not really. It had the aunt of the commander from Balance of Terror and she basically defects to help Kirk and crew stop the Romulans from completing some nasty genetic experiments. She actually hates Kirk for the disgrace he brought to her family name -- at first.
FTFY
By the way: Did you, in fact, get around to reading the rest of the
Rihannsu books then? I vaguely remember us discussing them before.
Peter David is by far my favorite Trek author.
Roddenberry's son has been added to the show as an executive producer:
http://www.startrek.com/article/roddenberry-added-to-new-tv-series-team
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on March 05, 2016, 06:39:17 PM
Peter David is by far my favorite Trek author.
Yeah, I like him too.
Another favorite author for me is Keith R. A. deCandido. His Trek stories in general are pretty good, but especially his Klingon Empire novels. I also enjoyed
Articles of the Federation.
Quote from: Martok on March 06, 2016, 03:50:02 PM
Roddenberry's son has been added to the show as an executive producer:
http://www.startrek.com/article/roddenberry-added-to-new-tv-series-team
And back to bad news. :(
That's the least of my worries about the new show.
I feel like it's time to let Red Letter Media bring forth the hate to flow through us.
They first got massive attention for trash-critting the Star Wars prequels (in a somewhat intelligent way with a super-dumb presentation model), but have a much longer series slamming the TNG movies. (And then, to a somewhat lesser extent, the Abrams movies.)
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-trek/
(Or were they linked way upthread already? I've been sick since this thread started... :P :-[ )
http://www.denofgeek.com/movies/star-trek/39338/star-trek-the-battle-to-make-the-motion-picture
Very interesting! It looks like this show WILL NOT be in set in the Jar Jar Abrams universe (http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/04/13/the-new-star-trek-tv-show-will-be-set-before-the-next-generation)!
Excellent! The time period for the original crew ST movies is my favorite for ST. And with Nicholas Meyer on board, it's looking good so far.
Quote from: bbmike on April 15, 2016, 07:49:29 PM
Very interesting! It looks like this show WILL NOT be in set in the Jar Jar Abrams universe (http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/04/13/the-new-star-trek-tv-show-will-be-set-before-the-next-generation)!
Set during the Lost Era? That is indeed interesting; it's a period rarely covered except by books in the Expanded Universe.
Quote from: WallysWorld on April 16, 2016, 01:29:23 PM
Excellent! The time period for the original crew ST movies is my favorite for ST. And with Nicholas Meyer on board, it's looking good so far.
Same. O0
We're losing the signal.
https://www.facebook.com/mark.russo.311/videos/10205235352316254/
God, the commercials were bad.
Dammit Jim! That trailer needs a doctor.
The font and logo are both ugly. :(
As long as it's set just after Star Trek VI like has been mentioned and Nicholas Meyer is involved, I'll definitely give it a shot.
Years ago, I had an idea for a new ST series, it was set on the Enterprise-B just after Kirk disappeared. I actually created the characters in the old FASA rpg, I loved creating characters in that game.The captain was a grumpy Tellarite named Gavney (son of the assassinated Ambassador Gav from TOS) who was a brilliant navigator and born leader. He would swear and curse but had an indestructible sense of humour. He was such a vivid character that I still remember him today. He would have been a riot to roleplay.
Well, that's a typical trailer - lots of fluff and flashy effects but zero actual content. That's what you get when movie studios and TV studios are all owned under the same bloated corporate umbrella.
In any case I'll reserve judgement until it comes out. Though keep in mind, ST:TNG took at least two seasons of suck before it started hitting its stride.
It pains me to admit it, but I'm tired of Star Trek. The franchise has been beaten into the ground. I have zero interest in the new film or TV show. The Axanar fan flick looks very cool, but I doubt we'll ever see it. What started as a cultural quirk has turned into a pure money grab. I'm sick of it.
Let's have a reboot of UFO and Space:1999 instead.
Quote from: Staggerwing on June 26, 2016, 08:20:22 PM
Let's have a reboot of UFO and Space:1999 instead.
I'd love to see a reboot of Space: 1999. That was a surprisingly good sci-fi show, beneath all the cheese.
+1 to Space: 1999. I had the ship toy as a kid; loved that show.
The Eagles were cool ships and they looked convincing.
The show's name could be a problem, unless the developers deliberately go for a 'Yesterday's Tomorrow' kind of alt-hist premise
Space: 2099?
Quote from: Pinetree on June 26, 2016, 09:26:14 PM
Space: 2099?
at the pace we're going 2099 is probably way more accurate.
"The Invaders" from 1968 I think. On ABC TV. I held those damned rabbit-ear antennas in place for a solid hour to get to see it.
Quote from: Sir Slash on June 27, 2016, 11:13:19 AM
"The Invaders" from 1968 I think. On ABC TV. I held those damned rabbit-ear antennas in place for a solid hour to get to see it.
The small town I grew up in didn't even get ABC. That explains a lot of my personality issues. :uglystupid2: I missed "The Invaders" and "Time Tunnel".
That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
I love the Time Tunnel! Tony and Doug stuck in the past and all they do is try their best to interfere with history. Save the Titanic! Save Abraham Lincoln! Paradoxes be damned! :))
Quote from: bbmike on June 27, 2016, 02:05:07 PM
I love the Time Tunnel! Tony and Doug stuck in the past and all they do is try their best to interfere with history. Save the Titanic! Save Abraham Lincoln! Paradoxes be damned! :))
And I could look at Lee Meriwether all day long.
Yeah. That was another good one. I remember, it may not have been 1968, but I think it was that year, NBC Had Star Trek. ABC Had The Invaders. And CBS had the summer series, "The Prisoner" with Patrick Mc Goohan. THAT was a great Sci-Fy summer.
"The Prisoner" was great until the last episode and then it went the way of "Lost" and got completely and utterly WTF???????
Quote from: DoctorQuest on June 27, 2016, 02:26:35 PM
"The Prisoner" was great until the last episode and then it went the way of "Lost" and got completely and utterly WTF???????
Was that the one where McGoohan ended up duking it out with the baddie while stumbling around inside half of a modular home riding on the back of a moving truck, headed down the road, while all the passing motorists watch the fight through the clear plastic covering the open side of the house?
Quote from: Staggerwing on June 27, 2016, 06:23:51 PM
Quote from: DoctorQuest on June 27, 2016, 02:26:35 PM
"The Prisoner" was great until the last episode and then it went the way of "Lost" and got completely and utterly WTF???????
Was that the one where McGoohan ended up duking it out with the baddie while stumbling around inside half of a modular home riding on the back of a moving truck, headed down the road, while all the passing motorists watch the fight through the clear plastic covering the open side of the house?
Yup.
I don't remember that part but it sounds great. I liked 'Rover', the giant white Ball/Balloon Monster or machine or whatever it was. Why does talking about old British TV shows always sound like I've had too much to drink?
[yt]https://youtu.be/EbGBvnbbdKA[/yt]
He wasn't duking it out with the baddie; he and the most recent #2 (and some rebel minions) were dancing in glee for having escaped the Village.
Sort of.
There's a huge Star Trek comic sale (https://www.humblebundle.com/books/star-trek-comics-bundle?linkID=&mcID=102:576c64686c8766476d416f19:ot:56d86fd8733462ca8955f987:1&utm_source=Humble+Bundle+Newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2016_06_29_Humble_Comics_Bundle_Star_Trek_Shelf&utm_content=hero_image) over at Humble Bundle right now. Fifteen bucks will net you dozens upon dozens of graphic novels, looks like.
The show has an official name now: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxba2WjlN90 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cxba2WjlN90)
Hmm, mirth should be along with that vomit emoticon any second now...
Interesting that the new starship looks like the concept Enterprise from the never-was Star Trek: Phase 2 series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Enterprise#Star_Trek:_Phase_II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Enterprise#Star_Trek:_Phase_II)
There's a Wiki page and a bunch of info out there on the Internet. I just perused the Wiki article quickly and found a few cool tidbits:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek:_Discovery
QuoteSet 10 years before the events of the original Star Trek series, the series follows the crew of the USS Discovery as they discover new worlds and civilizations, while exploring the franchise's signature contemporary themes. The season-long storyline revolves around "an incident and an event in Star Trek history that's been talked about but never been explored."
Hm. So it's like Enterprise, except not? Enterprise the way we hope it's done right? :-\
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 16, 2016, 02:36:59 PM
Hm. So it's like Enterprise, except not? Enterprise the way we hope it's done right? :-\
Er, no. Not if it is set only
10 years before TOS. And try to forget Enterprise ever happened. Try, try to forget.
Enterprise wasn't all that bad. The theme song sucked the devil's low-hanging balls, but otherwise it wasn't bad. IMO anyway.
If taken outside of (my own personal) canon, it really isn't that bad. The subplots were totally unnecessary, though, or at least should have been about something else entirely. And I don't care what anyone else says- what they are calling Vulcans in that show are certainly not Vulcans.
Quote from: DoctorQuest on June 27, 2016, 02:26:35 PM
"The Prisoner" was great until the last episode and then it went the way of "Lost" and got completely and utterly WTF???????
McGoohan wrote that episode in one week, and he was first to admit that he had just failed to come up with a good idea for the end.
He had several drafts that were much more coherent, but in his opinion they took the entire series to the level of Bond movie, and he could never find a way to make the reveal of number one anything but anti-climactic.
So, he went pure surreal and allegorical. He decided the best thing was to not end the series with a coherent final chapter, but instead to distill all of the themes of the previous episodes into the finale.
I agree, it was very WTF, but I loved how he ended it.
Quote from: Banzai_Cat on August 16, 2016, 03:38:13 PM
Enterprise wasn't all that bad. The theme song sucked the devil's low-hanging balls, but otherwise it wasn't bad. IMO anyway.
Be careful, BC! Mike takes his Star Trek very seriously. Don't evoke the ever-waiting "puke" emote!
I don't think Enterprise was bad, either. That damnable intro music made me want to shut it off at the beginning of every episode, however. I'm completely serious when I say that. Too bad I didn't have a big Puke Emote at the time, because that bad commercial-like song needed it.
The following aural horror cheese commercial has the type of song that reminds me of it. Except the ST:Enterprise song is even worse...
[img]Puke Emote[img]
I'm not even gonna click that link, Nef. :)
I want to say it was instrumental and then they went with a dude singing, or maybe it was the other way around. The music itself (withOUT the dude singing) isn't too bad in and of itself, but it's definitely NOT ST material.
Quote from: bbmike on August 16, 2016, 04:41:07 PM
If taken outside of (my own personal) canon, it really isn't that bad. The subplots were totally unnecessary, though, or at least should have been about something else entirely. And I don't care what anyone else says- what they are calling Vulcans in that show are certainly not Vulcans.
The show was really only decent in its last season. In a desperate attempt to save the show, they brought in TOS nerd Manny Coto to take it over from Braga, who had very little reverence or respect for the canon previously.
Coto tried to course correct. He fixed the Vulcan problem, explaining, just as you say, that they really "weren't Vulcans" because of a nefarious outside influence. He made attempts to work in the augments, the starting leadup of the Romulan War, and pushed in ridgless Klingons.
Too little too late though. He might have actually made something of the show, but they cancelled it, and shoe horned in the AWFUL series finale where it's implied the entire thing was just Riker's holodeck program.
It's set during the first war with the klingons, funnily enough the exact same time as a certain fan film that they're currently suing.
I love this quote: "an incident and an event in Star Trek history that's been talked about but never been explored."
Yeah, that narrows it down to about 1000s of possibilities. ::)
Quote from: SirAndrewD on August 16, 2016, 11:21:00 PM
Too little too late though. He might have actually made something of the show, but they cancelled it, and shoe horned in the AWFUL series finale where it's implied the entire thing was just Riker's holodeck program.
Now that, I can agree with. Remove the stupid Holodeck scenes (and an old/pudgy Riker and Troi) and the finale gets 100% better.
Enterprise became quite good in that last season and it started showing signs in the previous. Too bad it took so long and most of the fanbase had been driven away by then.
The song with vocals was awful, cringe-inducing.
Great, now I'm on the outside. I liked the ST:E intro song.
Quote from: OJsDad on August 17, 2016, 10:52:22 AM
Great, now I'm on the outside. I liked the ST:E intro song.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
^ I just knew he was going to show up again. :coolsmiley:
Quote from: mirth on August 17, 2016, 09:55:27 AM
Enterprise became quite good in that last season and it started showing signs in the previous. Too bad it took so long and most of the fanbase had been driven away by then.
The song with vocals was awful, cringe-inducing.
The cancelled sixth season might have even done better at redeeming it. Coto was going to redesign the Enterprise in a refit to give it a more TOS look, and the main story was going to revolve around the Romulan War, with time travel no where to be seen.
Of course that can't erase the awful mistakes of the previous seasons, the slightly unlikable crew, the blatant continuity errors like Romulans with cloaking devices and K'Tinga Class Battlecruisers, Borg and Ferengi showing up centuries out of place.
This is where the new Star Trek show is going to have to be better. If it's going to be set before TOS, it needs to look and feel like that. Enterprise's greatest failing, in my opinion, is that it didn't feel like a series set in the 22nd century, and that was entirely the fault of Brandon Braga's obsession with time travel and TNG era look and continuity being transported into his "prequel".
Star Trek canon is in tatters at this point. Reboots, time travel, alternate timelines, fuggedaboutit. To me one of the most egregious slaps to canon came in First Contact when they totally retconned Zephram Cochrane to suit the plot.
^ +1Billion!
Quote from: mirth on August 17, 2016, 03:08:47 PM
Star Trek canon is in tatters at this point. Reboots, time travel, alternate timelines, fuggedaboutit. To me one of the most egregious slaps to canon came in First Contact when they totally retconned Zephram Cochrane to suit the plot.
Agreed, especially about First Contact.
Sadly, that was another case of the Rick Berman era's obsession with time travel getting in the way of a good story. Ron Moore's original idea for the film would've focused entirely on the Borg and a massive running battle that would culminate in a gigantic set piece last stand at Earth's door.
Berman and Moore's co-writer Braga wanted yet another time travel piece. Berman was on record and quoted as saying that he felt the best of Trek involved time travel and he wanted it done as much as possible. The compromise was to do both. Moore's idea for a grand last stand battle against the Borg got reduced to a 3 minute budget friendly scene at the beginning. Any reverence for TOS Zephram Cochraine was not even a concern.
I hope beyond all hope that Star Trek Discovery will lack, completely, in any way shape or form a time travel component or story.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on August 17, 2016, 03:29:15 PM
I hope beyond all hope that Star Trek Discovery will lack, completely, in any way shape or form a time travel component or story.
+1
Your hopes will only end in tears, I fear.
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 17, 2016, 05:30:17 PM
Your hopes will only end in tears, I fear.
True, because Star Trek died June 2, 1999 when DS9 ended. Moment of silence, please. :(
Quote from: WallysWorld on July 23, 2016, 07:39:14 PM
Interesting that the new starship looks like the concept Enterprise from the never-was Star Trek: Phase 2 series.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Enterprise#Star_Trek:_Phase_II (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Enterprise#Star_Trek:_Phase_II)
Yeah, it's pretty much Ralph McQuarrie's Phase II design which is butt fugly.
http://arstechnica.com/the-multiverse/2016/08/new-trek-series-committed-to-casting-diversity-main-character-wont-be-captain
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
This is interesting speculation and something I would be okay with
http://moviepilot.com/posts/4034303
Quote from: mirth on August 17, 2016, 06:03:32 PM
http://arstechnica.com/the-multiverse/2016/08/new-trek-series-committed-to-casting-diversity-main-character-wont-be-captain
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
+1. See my last post.
Quote from: mirth on August 17, 2016, 06:07:44 PM
This is interesting speculation and something I would be okay with
http://moviepilot.com/posts/4034303
+1. That would actually be cool.
http://www.startrek.com/article/you-ask-the-qs-ronald-d-moore-answers-part-1 (http://www.startrek.com/article/you-ask-the-qs-ronald-d-moore-answers-part-1)
QuoteMoore: Star Trek, to me, was always Kirk and Spock and those guys. On an inner level, Star Trek was always bigger than what I did.
O0
Since there has been some speculation about the 'event' in question being the Battle of Axanar, and that (Fan movie not withstanding) according to MemoryAlpha (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Axanar) that battle was probably not with either the Klingons or the Romulans, and that there was a negotiated peace which 'held together the Federation'...
Could Axanar have been a nipped-in-the-bud civil war, perhaps even between Earth and a Vulcan faction that felt Earth had too much influence?
Excellent AMA with Ron Moore:
https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2c26yi/i_am_ron_d_moore_formerly_of_battlestar_galactica/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/2c26yi/i_am_ron_d_moore_formerly_of_battlestar_galactica/)
QuoteFavorite books, genre-related or otherwise?
Ron-Moore
I was a childhood fan of the Hornblower series of books. At the moment, I am reading the third volume of Shelby Foote's series on the Civil War, which is one of the best historical narratives I've ever read.
O0
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 17, 2016, 07:23:15 PM
Since there has been some speculation about the 'event' in question being the Battle of Axanar, and that (Fan movie not withstanding) according to MemoryAlpha (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Battle_of_Axanar) that battle was probably not with either the Klingons or the Romulans, and that there was a negotiated peace which 'held together the Federation'...
Could Axanar have been a nipped-in-the-bud civil war, perhaps even between Earth and a Vulcan faction that felt Earth had too much influence?
Hmmm...I had always accepted the FASA version of events without thinking about it not being canonical. Interesting that the Axanar fan film is going with the FASA storyline.
I hope the TV show isn't looking to intentionally undercut the fan film.
Free books based on the FASA Four Years War (http://jollyrogersproductions.net/?page_id=95). I've started the Romulan War books and they are pretty good so far.
I doubt this show will be about Axanar. It would have to be set more than 10 years before TOS. That is if they care about canon.
Quote from: bbmike on August 17, 2016, 08:00:52 PM
Free books based on the FASA Four Years War (http://jollyrogersproductions.net/?page_id=95). I've started the Romulan War books and they are pretty good so far.
Nice find!
Yeah, I probably need to go post the link in the books forum.
Now I need to dig through and see if I have copies of these:
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Four_Years_War
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Return_to_Axanar
This is interesting (http://www.idigitaltimes.com/star-trek-discovery-cast-captain-garth-izar-maniacal-white-dude-fits-facts-nicely-551002). If this series is indeed about the fall of Captain (Lord!) Garth, it could be very interesting indeed.
[edit]That ship really is butt fugly.[/edit]
If they were smart, they'd let the Axanar fan film go forward and use it to provide backstory for the TV series. If they were smart...
And yes, the ship is absolutely butt fugly. What was McQuarrie smoking when he came up with that design?
Have you seen some of the butt-plug designs that were considered before producers settled on the Constitution-class?
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 18, 2016, 06:05:10 PM
Have you seen some of the butt-plug designs that were considered before producers settled on the Constitution-class?
For the original series? Yeah, I've seen most of those early designs. :o
New show is getting pushed back to May 17
http://www.avclub.com/article/star-trek-discoverys-launch-pushed-back-january-ma-242627
Hmm, what 'warning sign' number are we up to now?
Quote from: bbmike on September 14, 2016, 05:32:34 PM
Hmm, what 'warning sign' number are we up to now?
53, I think.
More trouble ahead?
QuoteThe decision was made late last week to hand the day-to-day showrunning reins to "Star Trek" exec producers Gretchen Berg and Aaron Harberts as "Discovery" gears up for the start of filming next month and a May 2017 premiere date. Fuller, who will remain an executive producer, will still be involved in breaking stories, and the show will continue to follow his vision for the universe that this latest "Trek" series will inhabit.
QuoteSources said there had been some strain between "Star Trek" producer CBS Television Studios and Fuller over the progress of production on the show, as Fuller is also juggling the final weeks of shooting and post-production duties on Starz's upcoming drama "American Gods" and prepping a reboot of "Amazing Stories" for NBC.
http://variety.com/2016/tv/news/bryan-fuller-showrunner-star-trek-discovery-cbs-1201901398/
In other news, if this series ever actually gets off the ground it will be available up here in the Great White North on Space, so essentially free! :D
Quote from: Barthheart on October 27, 2016, 08:29:13 AM
In other news, if this series ever actually gets off the ground it will be available up here in the Great White North on Space, so essentially free! :D
I'm starting to think that's still too expensive.
https://www.yahoo.com/tv/star-trek-discovery-doug-jones-anthony-rapp-join-182506881.html
...And I still don't care.
So, I'm thinking someone else on the Walking Dead (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/star-trek-discovery-casts-walking-dead-star-sonequa-martin-green-as-lead/) is going to die?
It will air January 2017! No wait, now it's May 2017. Er, well now it's late summer or fall 2017 (https://www.cnet.com/news/star-trek-discovery-debut-date-delay-les-moonves/#ftag=CAD590a51e). (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fshakehead.gif&hash=d6326b4159f7e626ec4cddc26ebf21b107565a04)
They can postpone it indefinitely as far as I'm concerned.
^That, or replace it with a series called Star Trek: Axanar.
(https://i.imgflip.com/16zy6g.jpg)
Quote from: bbmike on February 28, 2017, 10:16:25 AM
^That, or replace it with a series called Star Trek: Axanar.
Even better
How about a Star Trek prequel that shows us Vulcan before the whole 'Logic' thing occurred when they were blood-thirsty barbarians fighting all the time? Star Trek: Vulcan Dawn-- Spock You! :coolsmiley:
Quote from: Sir Slash on February 28, 2017, 11:26:57 AM
How about a Star Trek prequel that shows us Vulcan before the whole 'Logic' thing occurred when they were blood-thirsty barbarians fighting all the time? Star Trek: Vulcan Dawn-- Spock You! :coolsmiley:
They could play the fight music from "Amok Time" every episode! :D
Harry Mudd has been added (http://www.startrek.com/article/rainn-wilson-his-name-is-mudd-on-discovery) to Star Trek: Discovery!
For the first time, I have a genuine interest in the show.
For all my reservations, I gotta admit the casting is looking pretty solid so far. Here's hoping.
Quote from: bbmike on March 31, 2017, 03:11:15 PM
Harry Mudd has been added (http://www.startrek.com/article/rainn-wilson-his-name-is-mudd-on-discovery) to Star Trek: Discovery!
Rainn Wilson? OK... now I'm really getting interested.
Quote from: Steelgrave on March 31, 2017, 03:50:00 PM
I gotta admit the casting is looking pretty solid so far
You ain't kidding. I didn't realize they had cast Jason Issacs.
http://www.startrek.com/article/discovery-adds-two-more-cast-members
Too bad. Would have liked to see this
https://io9.gizmodo.com/michael-dorn-had-a-good-reason-for-turning-down-the-cha-1794259001
The hype train will derail. I have no doubt. And what's with those uniforms? Again, no attention to detail (cannon).
In episode 1, the Serenity shoots their ass off. :DD
Why I do a feel like this would have been better than what we're going to get?
Quote from: mirth on April 21, 2017, 07:14:58 PM
Why I do a feel like this would have been better than what we're going to get?
Because you have a working brain and a genuine love of Star Trek?
A new trailer dropped. Ooof, this looks nothing like what should be 10 years before TOS. :(
I can't watch :hide:
It's ok. Vomit guy is here to support you.
I have a feeling I'll need the support.
If nothing else, I thought Enterprise nailed the pre-TOS look very well. This clip looks more contemporary or even early Next Generation era. And anyone else get a little Star Wars/Tatooine vibe from the first scene? Aargh.....
Quote from: Steelgrave on May 17, 2017, 07:43:03 PM
If nothing else, I thought Enterprise nailed the pre-TOS look very well. This clip looks more contemporary or even early Next Generation era. And anyone else get a little Star Wars/Tatooine vibe from the first scene? Aargh.....
In some ways it did. I liked the uniforms in Enterprise. The ship and some of the interior looked a bit too advanced for me.
Quote from: bbmike on May 17, 2017, 07:54:04 PM
Quote from: Steelgrave on May 17, 2017, 07:43:03 PM
If nothing else, I thought Enterprise nailed the pre-TOS look very well. This clip looks more contemporary or even early Next Generation era. And anyone else get a little Star Wars/Tatooine vibe from the first scene? Aargh.....
In some ways it did. I liked the uniforms in Enterprise. The ship and some of the interior looked a bit too advanced for me.
I think that speaks to the production capabilities they have today. If TOS had been done NOW I think it would look a lot different than in the 60s.
Star Trek was definitely a product of it's times in terms of production and budget.
What? No Tribbles? ???
that looks good.
In what universe are those Klingons?
Quote from: SirAndrewD on May 18, 2017, 12:01:05 AM
In what universe are those Klingons?
The Galaxy Quest one?
Quote from: SirAndrewD on May 18, 2017, 12:01:05 AM
In what universe are those Klingons?
Jar Jar's universe?
Just reading Nicholas Meyer's entry in Wikipedia and found this sentence at the very bottom:
"In May 2017, Meyer announced he has written and created a new show for CBS All Access, Ceti Alpha V: A Star Trek Adventure."
Quote from: WallysWorld on May 25, 2017, 04:27:45 PM
Just reading Nicholas Meyer's entry in Wikipedia and found this sentence at the very bottom:
"In May 2017, Meyer announced he has written and created a new show for CBS All Access, Ceti Alpha V: A Star Trek Adventure."
Now that could be cool.
Quote from: mirth on May 25, 2017, 04:42:40 PM
Quote from: WallysWorld on May 25, 2017, 04:27:45 PM
Just reading Nicholas Meyer's entry in Wikipedia and found this sentence at the very bottom:
"In May 2017, Meyer announced he has written and created a new show for CBS All Access, Ceti Alpha V: A Star Trek Adventure."
Now that could be cool.
Why? In that time there should be nothing on Ceti Alpha V.
Quote from: bbmike on May 25, 2017, 04:52:07 PM
Quote from: mirth on May 25, 2017, 04:42:40 PM
Quote from: WallysWorld on May 25, 2017, 04:27:45 PM
Just reading Nicholas Meyer's entry in Wikipedia and found this sentence at the very bottom:
"In May 2017, Meyer announced he has written and created a new show for CBS All Access, Ceti Alpha V: A Star Trek Adventure."
Now that could be cool.
Why? In that time there should be nothing on Ceti Alpha V.
I didn't take it as concurrent with Discovery. It sounds like a totally new show, presumably centered around Khan and his followers.
Hmm, so a 'Lord of the Flies' type show? 'Khan of the Ceti Eels'?
Game of Eels
Sons of Ceti Alpha
Madsupermen
I would watch Game of Eels. ;D
CBS already has it in pre-production.
Quote from: WallysWorld on May 25, 2017, 04:27:45 PM
Just reading Nicholas Meyer's entry in Wikipedia and found this sentence at the very bottom:
"In May 2017, Meyer announced he has written and created a new show for CBS All Access, Ceti Alpha V: A Star Trek Adventure."
Hm, is there any other confirmation outside the Wiki? There's no documentation on that entry on his page.
^My guess is more fake news. Fake wikinews that is.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on May 25, 2017, 06:55:23 PM
Quote from: WallysWorld on May 25, 2017, 04:27:45 PM
Just reading Nicholas Meyer's entry in Wikipedia and found this sentence at the very bottom:
"In May 2017, Meyer announced he has written and created a new show for CBS All Access, Ceti Alpha V: A Star Trek Adventure."
Hm, is there any other confirmation outside the Wiki? There's no documentation on that entry on his page.
I haven't found anything else and I spent a few minutes doing some searches.
The only other mention I could find was this from 2016 so there's not much out there, but who knows. Maybe CBS is waiting to see if STD is a success.
"There's so much I learned from researching this book which is amazing, to be honest," Altman said. "I had no idea Paramount had briefly dabbled with the idea of developing a spin-off of 'Star Trek II' about Khan on Ceti Alpha V."
http://1701news.com/node/1302/fifty-year-mission-explores-trek-many-people-missed.html (http://1701news.com/node/1302/fifty-year-mission-explores-trek-many-people-missed.html)
Quote from: WallysWorld on May 25, 2017, 10:47:51 PM
The only other mention I could find was this from 2016 so there's not much out there, but who knows. Maybe CBS is waiting to see if STD is a success.
"There's so much I learned from researching this book which is amazing, to be honest," Altman said. "I had no idea Paramount had briefly dabbled with the idea of developing a spin-off of 'Star Trek II' about Khan on Ceti Alpha V."
http://1701news.com/node/1302/fifty-year-mission-explores-trek-many-people-missed.html (http://1701news.com/node/1302/fifty-year-mission-explores-trek-many-people-missed.html)
"STD" seems about right to me about this property. I'm going to refer to it as that from now on.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on May 26, 2017, 12:56:41 AM
"STD" seems about right to me about this property.
We have a winner.
Star Trek: Discovery Sets Premiere Date (http://www.startrek.com/article/star-trek-discovery-sets-premiere-date)
I've enrolled Vomit Guy in an exercise program to prepare.
Quote from: bbmike on June 19, 2017, 04:09:45 PM
Star Trek: Discovery Sets Premiere Date (http://www.startrek.com/article/star-trek-discovery-sets-premiere-date)
I've enrolled Vomit Guy in an exercise program to prepare.
He's gonna need a raise too.
I'm just not down with the whole CBS access thing. Had it for awhile so my wife could watch crappy CBS shows, then I swapped it out for some chick channel for her. CBS was wonky and never ran smoothly and you had to watch their damn commercials, so....nah!
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--g2nwi4eO--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/mecvmpxmo2oorposxvpc.jpg)
Why is he wearing his PJs on the bridge?
It's a very casual ship.
Damn. That's a lot of blue in one place. Are you sure that's not a Vegas act? :coolsmiley:
Ship design has changed a bit - http://io9.gizmodo.com/heres-our-best-look-at-star-trek-discoverys-new-ship-1796995099
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--9bSsmzSm--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/ohhix78xlg1jeg4hrpjc.jpg)
Wait, here he comes...
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
Yeah, it's still butt ugly.
The open space between the inner saucer and outer ring is just dumb. Not efficient for movement within the ship. It's not like they need to save weight or money.... L:-)
It's an awful design. Practical considerations aside, you'd think someone would have spoken up to say, "But it looks like crap!".
Dammit Jim! I'm a Doctor, not a Starship designer! The space between the saucers is a Tribble Guard. It keeps them from falling out of the bulkheads. On your head. Over and over.
It looks like a hubcap. Maybe the inner saucer will spin?
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 18, 2017, 06:55:46 PM
Dammit Jim! I'm a Doctor, not a Starship designer! The space between the saucers is a Tribble Guard. It keeps them from falling out of the bulkheads. On your head. Over and over.
I knew there was a plausible explanation.
My ten year old grandson could have designed a better looking ship with his Legos in half an hour, tops. So not encouraged....
It's CBS so there probably won't be any real weapons on the ship at all. And if there are, they certainly won't be able to use them. Unless it's to shoot the enemies weapons out of their hands and leave them thoughtfully rubbing their sore but intact fingers and suddenly willing to peacefully co-exist. And accept progressive ideas wholeheartedly. Can't wait! :coolsmiley:
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 18, 2017, 10:03:24 PM
It's CBS so there probably won't be any real weapons on the ship at all. And if there are, they certainly won't be able to use them. Unless it's to shoot the enemies weapons out of their hands and leave them thoughtfully rubbing their sore but intact fingers and suddenly willing to peacefully co-exist. And accept progressive ideas wholeheartedly. Can't wait! :coolsmiley:
Gene Roddenberry would approve of that.
Not even kidding, he would.
At least now we know why he's wearing his PJs on the bridge. He just doesn't care.
I don't understand the inner/outer ring either, but:
1.) They may not have to worry about weight, but they do have to worry about mass. Mass doesn't go away in weightless space, and inertia/momentum effects are still in effect. Some designer might have been thinking along this line, and in between deciding whether to sniff black tar heroin and powdered bleach, figured that this would be a handy way to reduce mass. Instead of, y'know, MAKING THE SAUCER SMALLER IN DIAMETER!
2.) Not all space is weightless. Being in orbit around anything necessarily involves some level of gravity. The outer ring will be affected to some degree, even if not proportionately a lot.
3.) Mass effects (from inertia and momentum) are still going to snap those few puny connectors between the inner and outer rings like twigs, sooner or later.
4.) I will however concede that it looks futuristicky. :peace:
Did you just lecture me on the difference between weight and mass? ::)
Fight! Fight! Fight!
NERDS!!!
Did you really understand that post?
I don't think he meant "futuristicky" in the same way I would.
You mean as in the aftermath of holodeck porn?
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 19, 2017, 07:32:48 PM
You mean as in the aftermath of holodeck holosuite porn?
FTFY, just ask Quark.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2Fb4%2Fb46753ae243c98ba5ed8c7e29a0a9f2726a70e57c0840bee1a4b183183c89721.jpg&hash=4c1a540fc876cdf8f021b4b8913e73cfd62bbc96)
Paging Vomit Guy
http://io9.gizmodo.com/these-discovery-props-reveal-a-ton-about-star-treks-new-1797102750
So.... many... things.... wrong..... nerd rage.... rising..... :pullhair:
This might be too much for vomit guy. :'(
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
Careful little fella. Don't wear yourself out.
Damn, how do Klingons pee in that suit? Spock would say it is illogical. McCoy would say it's ugly as a Horta's butt. Riker would try to screw it. And Scotty would have a drink with it. I say no self-respecting Klingon would be caught dead in it. L:-)
I knew this series was screwed when it was announced CBS was behind it. Imagine what AMC or HBO could have done. So far, this looks like a train wreck in motion. :P
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 21, 2017, 09:17:58 AM
Imagine what AMC or HBO could have done.
Alien bewbies!
Sign me up!
Three? So do you start in the middle and work your way out or on the ends and work inward?
This guy tries to explain the new ship design. He may be right about the reasons but it's still a dumb design..... :P
Because it looks cool...kinda...awright?
Then again these forums are full of Voyager-haters, so there's no accounting for taste. :nerd:
Did someone mention Voyager?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
Quote from: bbmike on July 24, 2017, 06:26:01 AM
Did someone mention Voyager?
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
On that we agree.
Always a big problem on any starship I've ever flown on... not enough windows. If they want to show scale, why not just add a hood ornament? Maybe a naked green Orion girl thingy. :bd:
Quote from: Sir Slash on July 24, 2017, 10:50:33 AM
Always a big problem on any starship I've ever flown on... not enough windows. If they want to show scale, why not just add a hood ornament? Maybe a naked green Orion girl thingy. :bd:
Orion girls don't got thingys. >:D
Wonder how they make little, green Orion babies then?
Spock's.....wait for it....SISTER!
Star Trek: Discovery lead is actually Spock's adopted sister (http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/star-trek-discovery-lead-is-actually-spocks-adopted-sister)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpicard.jpg&hash=1a4b743953c3f3d6a1dcd0c8f867398ea176f02f)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fgaah.gif&hash=f390050b192ffde487abbaf48e59676345d35f58)
WTF?!
So they retconned Spock's half-brother into Final Frontier and now he has a sister we've never heard of before in 50 years of Trek. Brilliant! :uglystupid2:
Dear God, what's next...... Ensign Jar-Jar? L:-) L:-) L:-)
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 25, 2017, 03:45:49 PM
Dear God, what's next...... Ensign Jar-Jar? L:-) L:-) L:-)
Shhh, they might be listening.
If anything is certain it's they are not listening. :'(
^What he said.
Quote from: bbmike on July 25, 2017, 04:25:08 PM
If anything is certain it's they are not listening. :'(
You are, unfortunately correct.
They're at least not listening to TOS fans. Checking out places like the TrekBBS, there's a lot of TNG and later fans that are happy about the direction, so there is a division.
But, TOS fans like myself and seemingly the majority here seem to be left out. I mean, I'm not asking for them to use cardboard sets and random flashing lights made on a shoestring budget. I just want to see something that is a modern interpretation so we at least feel like we're in the same universe.
And adding random Spock siblings was already unpopular in Star Trek 5. Sort of a head scratcher that they think it's a good to tap that poisoned well again.
^You do reach, brother. ^-^
So, to wear my ignorance on my sleeve as I am wont to do, why is Voyager a crap series?
I enjoyed it, more or less. The Vulcan woman's eyes being misaligned were kinda distracting. Deep Space 9 is by far my favorite of all the ST series, but Voyager isn't that bad.
Quote from: BanzaiCat on July 25, 2017, 08:13:38 PM
So, to wear my ignorance on my sleeve as I am wont to do, why is Voyager a crap series?
I enjoyed it, more or less. The Vulcan woman's eyes being misaligned were kinda distracting. Deep Space 9 is by far my favorite of all the ST series, but Voyager isn't that bad.
Vulcan Woman? On Voyager?
Quote from: BanzaiCat on July 25, 2017, 08:13:38 PM
So, to wear my ignorance on my sleeve as I am wont to do, why is Voyager a crap series?
I enjoyed it, more or less. The Vulcan woman's eyes being misaligned were kinda distracting. Deep Space 9 is by far my favorite of all the ST series, but Voyager isn't that bad.
Voyager...good?
You are not of the body. You will be, absorbed.
No, he would be more likely of the Celestial Temple. Kai Something-or-other.
Quote from: Staggerwing on July 25, 2017, 09:04:46 PM
No, he would be more likely of the Celestial Temple. Kai Something-or-other.
Kai Meow.
Quote from: BanzaiCat on July 25, 2017, 08:13:38 PM
So, to wear my ignorance on my sleeve as I am wont to do, why is Voyager a crap series?
I enjoyed it, more or less. The Vulcan woman's eyes being misaligned were kinda distracting. Deep Space 9 is by far my favorite of all the ST series, but Voyager isn't that bad.
DS9 is second favorite, you gain +5 to your INT attribute. :P
For me, Voyager was a show that had a great setup for the Star Trek universe. A Federation starship that was stranded 70 years away from Federation space! It's going to be exciting seeing them trying to keep that ship running with duct tape and chicken wire while meeting completely different aliens and space stuff. I bet they show up at Deep Space 50 with a 1985 Ford 6.9L Indirect Injection (IDI) diesel engine strapped to the hull and running on dilithium fumes!
What did we get? TNG 2.0 (but not even TNG quality). The characters were all as dull as watching Picard order hot tea. The only memorable character was the hologram doctor. And he was a hologram! The ship? It ended up with faster engines! #:-)
Sigh. I'll stop there before this gets nominated for a Prattian Post of the Year Award. :dreamer:
Sigh - I meant the KLINGON woman, obviously.
I agree that Robert Picardo was the high point of that entire series. Overall, though, it was intriguing as hell. I didn't like how the series ended (let's just fast forward this here...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz...okay you're back to Earth, yay...wait, huh?), but the characters weren't too bad. Janeway was a good character, though Chakotay was a huge forced shoe-horn into the story...
Anyway, yeah, I'll shut up too before I get into a sixty-paragraph treatise on the merits of the series versus the other ones.
But DS9 was frikkin' brilliant. I loved that series. It had the best ST episode (The Visitor) of all time among all ST series. IMO of course. O:-)
Voyager was okay, but it was the weakest of the Next Gen series. I like Kate Mulgrew, but Janeway seemed to become more shrill as the series went on. Most of the other characters were 'meh'. Neelix was Jar Jar level annoying for me.
I'm with Mike, it always seemed like a second rate TNG.
Robert Picardo was definitely the standout, especially in the first few seasons. Eventually the writers gave his character the 'Hot Lips Houlihan discovers her kinder side' treatment.
Honestly, I couldn't stand Voyager or any of the crew, including Picardo. I loathe Voyager and to this day, it's the only Star Trek series that I never finished watching.
I love you. Steelie.
I never got any further than The Next Generation and I only watched that to see if Worf ever laughed at ANYTHING! Remember the episode where the blond Security Chief got really drunk and screwed Data? Damn, she had to be hard-up. <:-)
She came from a planet where she and her sister had been constantly molested or in danger of it, so she had trouble relating to men intimately. And this was before the days of openly gay characters. (And maybe suggesting lesbianism is a neurosis wouldn't be pc anyway. ;) )
Consequently, she regarded Data as the safest male on board to work out her issues. Except once the inebriation wore off, she couldn't really deal with starting a relationship with him. This led to some interesting romantic angst on his part, although only after she died.
It's too bad Denise decided the crew roster of main characters was too full (certainly true) and wanted to be more of a main character somewhere else -- although to be fair, her decision was technically the correct one since there was almost no way they'd be writing out Worf's character, and if so they'd only have replaced him with another Klingon since fans generally liked the idea. And Yar and Worf were in direct competition for plot relevance. (In so much competition that in the first and only episode primarily focusing on her, Worf simply doesn't show up!)
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 26, 2017, 08:49:45 PM
Honestly, I couldn't stand Voyager or any of the crew, including Picardo. I loathe Voyager and to this day, it's the only Star Trek series that I never finished watching.
I've haven't watched the complete series either. I'm almost nearing the end of rewatching DS9 and am half considering trying to watch Voyager after that.
There aren't enough Vomit Guys
http://io9.gizmodo.com/apparently-you-cant-say-god-on-star-trek-1797301585
Quote from: mirth on July 27, 2017, 07:53:14 PM
There aren't enough Vomit Guys
http://io9.gizmodo.com/apparently-you-cant-say-god-on-star-trek-1797301585
Oh god.
Gene Roddenberry's ghost is coming for you.
So.... no other species they meet can say God even if they still have them?
Magee Barrett needs to go bitch slap the writers.... ::)
The author of the article gets it:
QuoteI have said that I like bad Star Trek over good other things many times. I like the makeup of this crew, and I like that it's moving away from the captain and avoiding doing another show about ships named Enterprise. I lived through Voyager and Enterprise and did so gleefully. But Discovery is just... weird in its choices. Like, remember how it was so adamant about "breaking" Roddenberry's rule about interpersonal conflict among the crew? Despite the fact that this rule hadn't been enforced for decades? Why adhere to the letter of Roddenberry's religion vision rather than simply the spirit of that rule? Everything, everything about this show confuses me.
And it's horseshit too. I'm sure Bones says uses God's name in vain more than a few times during TOS.
Quote from: mirth on July 27, 2017, 07:53:14 PM
There aren't enough Vomit Guys
http://io9.gizmodo.com/apparently-you-cant-say-god-on-star-trek-1797301585
True. We'll have to play this:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Ffpcard.png&hash=895d77e8623849e1965c8667b3dfdea0ea6bf729)
It even runs contrary to TNG canon in the 24th Century. Picard sure sounds like religious belief still exists way after this timeframe
They also might want to go back and watch the TOS episode Bread and Circuses (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Bread_and_Circuses_(episode)) where Uhura says a line about "the Son of God". ::)
This show is going to be a colossal failure. Who's the producers? Who do we string up?
Quote from: bbmike on July 27, 2017, 08:13:26 PM
They also might want to go back and watch the TOS episode Bread and Circuses (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Bread_and_Circuses_(episode)) where Uhura says a line about "the son of God". ::)
They might want to go back and watch some Star Trek, period.
From Memory Alpha (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/God) which has a whole entry on God for God's sakes. Wait, can I say that on Grogheads? :
Where a situation existed in which an individual had no other choice and had to kill to protect themselves or another, that individual might ask a God for forgiveness. In 2266, Doctor Leonard McCoy said, Lord, forgive me, before he killed the M-113 creature. The doctor was saving the life of Captain James T. Kirk. (TOS: "The Man Trap")
(https://y.yarn.co/35200552-a784-4b83-bde2-496db4d93480_text_hi.gif)
I'd give good money to see what would happen on set if they'd tried to tell DeForrest Kelly to censor the G word.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on July 27, 2017, 08:22:12 PM
I'd give good money to see what would happen on set if they'd tried to tell DeForrest Kelly to censor the G word.
+100 O0
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 27, 2017, 07:12:28 AM
She came from a planet where she and her sister had been constantly molested or in danger of it, so she had trouble relating to men intimately. And this was before the days of openly gay characters. (And maybe suggesting lesbianism is a neurosis wouldn't be pc anyway. ;) )
Consequently, she regarded Data as the safest male on board to work out her issues. Except once the inebriation wore off, she couldn't really deal with starting a relationship with him. This led to some interesting romantic angst on his part, although only after she died.
It's too bad Denise decided the crew roster of main characters was too full (certainly true) and wanted to be more of a main character somewhere else -- although to be fair, her decision was technically the correct one since there was almost no way they'd be writing out Worf's character, and if so they'd only have replaced him with another Klingon since fans generally liked the idea. And Yar and Worf were in direct competition for plot relevance. (In so much competition that in the first and only episode primarily focusing on her, Worf simply doesn't show up!)
She did come back for what was one of the best episodes of TNG, Yesterday's Enterprise
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
Well, now we know why they wanted to crush Star Trek Axanar. :idiot2:
And now's a good time to introduce Vomit Guy's brother Pukey.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)
I would love to know what the reaction of the fans seeing the trailer was.
Quote from: Steelgrave on July 29, 2017, 07:44:46 PM
I would love to know what the reaction of the fans seeing the trailer was.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)
Star Trek died on June 2, 1999. :'(
Not even Hortas could save that. :wow:
This is a pretty interesting watch. You know you've got a troubled production when Midnight Edge decides to do a video on you. Real eye openers here about how the licence between CBS and Paramount works, and why Discovery legally can't resemble Star Trek or fit into the Prime timeline..
^Interesting, thanks for posting. I didn't know about the license stuff, it sorta explains the crappy visuals in the Jar Jar train wreck (but not the bad writing). I also didn't know about the Ghostbusters-eque defense of crying racism at negative opinions about Discovery.
??? :(
Now I'm actually starting to look forward to The Orville.
Why not, it looks far better than Discovery at this point. :hide:
Much better.
Plus, you know... Adrianne...
Much, much better.
Quote from: bbmike on July 30, 2017, 03:20:02 PM
^Interesting, thanks for posting. I didn't know about the license stuff, it sorta explains the crappy visuals in the Jar Jar train wreck (but not the bad writing). I also didn't know about the Ghostbusters-eque defense of crying racism at negative opinions about Discovery.
I just don't get why they're not being upfront about it. I would be a lot more comfortable with what I've seen so far if CBS would just say "Hey, this a reimagining and reboot, and it's not beholden to any prior continuity" rather than constantly blowing smoke up our arses about how this is a part of the canon.
it's CBS-- Complete Bull S--t. :DD
"We're also hearing, thanks to CBR, that season 1 of Star Trek: Discovery will feature some Tribbles. There's no extra info on that right now, but we thought you'd like to know." (http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-trek-discovery/37600/star-trek-discovery-fuller-pitched-an-anthology-series)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpicard.jpg&hash=1a4b743953c3f3d6a1dcd0c8f867398ea176f02f)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpukey.gif&hash=93e1252ba9ea627c1d7dc4001e504c6721a27307)
(Was going to post that Midnight's Edge video, but Sir Andrew beat me to it.)
The showrunners are now straight up lying to fans, too.
Actual situation according to evidence: after 6 eps produced, the producers bring in a team of continuity experts to go over scripts for the purpose of helping make sure the new eps don't resemble stories from prior Trek eps and films. (A daunting task, and probably necessary.)
Imaginary situation according to producers: they care so much about keeping continuity that they brought in a team of continuity fans to help with that.
...so, a mutually exclusive opposite explanation. That bodes well. L:-)
"Dammit Jim! I'm not a Doctor on this show"! :2funny:
I don't know if I will be able to stomach a star trek that is even more PC and more action than TNG.
You will not be able to
Maybe there is some truth to the 'back up' series?
Star Trek: Wrath Of Khan TV series in the works (http://www.denofgeek.com/uk/tv/star-trek/51109/star-trek-wrath-of-khan-tv-series-in-the-works)
Quote from: mirth on July 29, 2017, 05:17:27 PM
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
I already had low expectations, but I still died a little on the inside when I watched this.
Bring on
Orville!
I never watched Enterprise before but we've been going through the series lately on netflicks.
its a lot more fun then I expected.
So now we're back to the Klingons having ridge-heads before they didn't have them in the original Star Trek and did have them in the Next Generation. How do you say, "Make-up your mind" in Klingon? #:-)
http://www.avclub.com/article/star-trek-discovery-feature-sexy-vital-klingons-258893
Bah. The only true Klingons are John M. Ford Klingons!
<smh>
http://io9.gizmodo.com/okay-so-now-star-trek-discovery-can-say-god-1797480353
GOD, I'm glad. :clap: They better be able to say it. Cause, they're gonna need to do a whole lotta praying for this to succeed.
So.... the writers of this mess can't even agree on the basis for the story... #:-)
It's a God awful mess.
"Excuse me, whoever writer you are. I am Jason Isaacs. And I can very well say 'God'. If you think you can stop me... try." -- not necessarily said by Jason Isaacs, but this is now my headcanon.
You can hear that pseudo-quote in his voice and delivery, right? >:D You're welcome.
The concept of any continuity in Star Trek is dead. Just do whatever the frak you want and call it Star Trek
http://io9.gizmodo.com/klingon-ridges-will-finally-be-explained-on-star-trek-1797538814 (http://io9.gizmodo.com/klingon-ridges-will-finally-be-explained-on-star-trek-1797538814)
And these asshats killed Axanar :tickedoff:
I don't know what the hell this is, but it is NOT a Klingon!
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--NnJSog9X--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/vifqm1hhljhppu4ewaco.jpg)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
Never has Vomit Guy been better used.
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs2.quickmeme.com%2Fimg%2F27%2F27b3353e12af5c4e99e4bbc73e03bdc9f02ea3baa7e98820c8ebf470452f339d.jpg&hash=126cefe751234aea0f88696b5f2ae4231fea4aeb)
You explain the blue Klingon vampire
He can't. No one can.
Vomit guy can
I prefer to reserve judgement until I can, you know, actually watch an episode of it. :P
Quote from: BanzaiCat on August 06, 2017, 08:09:56 PM
I prefer to reserve judgement until I can, you know, actually watch an episode of it. :P
You can be the Guinea Tribble
Quote from: mirth on August 06, 2017, 08:15:20 PM
You can be the Guinea Tribble
Harry Mudd has a planet he can sell him.
Kidding aside, I'm watching it too. If it turns out to be good, I'll eat my appropriate amount of crow.
Wrigley's Pleasure Planet?
Oh hell. I'll watch it. I'm not paying for a channel, but I'll watch it.
Quote from: mirth on August 06, 2017, 08:54:05 PM
Oh hell. I'll watch it. I'm not paying for a channel, but I'll watch it.
I'm sure some of the episodes will fall out of the back of some internet truck somewhere.
It's gonna be free to watch up here...not that that will make it any better.... :P
Quote from: mirth on August 06, 2017, 08:54:05 PM
Oh hell. I'll watch it. I'm not paying for a channel, but I'll watch it.
Yeah, I'm not paying for some ridiculous network that won't survive for more than three years either. But I'll manage to see it...somehow. ;)
Quote from: mirth on August 06, 2017, 06:04:32 PM
Never has Vomit Guy been better used.
Poor fellow has gotta be suffering dry heaves by now.
Quote from: mirth on August 06, 2017, 08:54:05 PM
Oh hell. I'll watch it. I'm not paying for a channel, but I'll watch it.
Sucker.
Yeah, I'll watch the first episode if I can make it all the way through. I think I made it through 5 or 6 of Enterprise before I stopped watching it.
Quote from: bbmike on August 07, 2017, 11:11:52 AM
I think I made it through 5 or 6 of Enterprise before I stopped watching it.
I did the same thing a couple of times, but the third time was the charm. The entire series is pretty good, but the final episode is bloody awful.
The last two seasons of Enterprise were much better than the first two.
True. Could have totally done without seeing a pudgy Riker and old (though hawt) Troi in that final episode though.
Yeah that was a lousy final episode.
ha! nice.
...what am I missing? All I see is a bunch of blank space on Uberhaus's post.
Quote from: BanzaiCat on August 07, 2017, 08:21:13 PM
...what am I missing? All I see is a bunch of blank space on Uberhaus's post.
Same here so whenever that happens just click the 'quote' button and in the composition window you can see the hidden link inside the quoted poster's posting. Highlight the url and check it out.
Here's the link in forum-approved youtube format:
Quote from: BanzaiCat on August 07, 2017, 08:21:13 PM
...what am I missing? All I see is a bunch of blank space on Uberhaus's post.
It's the stark blank void we all feel in the pit of our souls whenever we hear any new news about Discovery.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on August 07, 2017, 08:26:26 PM
Quote from: BanzaiCat on August 07, 2017, 08:21:13 PM
...what am I missing? All I see is a bunch of blank space on Uberhaus's post.
It's the stark blank void we all feel in the pit of our souls whenever we hear any new news about Discovery.
:DD :DD :DD
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/60cb181f9b68773459dac02966ed3baf/tumblr_ob9vlqKTVe1tugsgco1_500.gif)
TOS is showing on BBC America on Friday nights, and in about 30 minutes Space Hippies is going to be on.
I'm pretty far in the process of getting drunk, and I'm going to do a sing along as a FU to Discovery. You all should not be a Herbert and join in.
"Steppin' into Edeeeenn....."
A study of the Klingon D-7 using geometry.
https://designbygeometry.wordpress.com/2011/09/29/klingon-d7-class-battlecruiser/
Interesting study, but at the end of it, my brain hurts almost as much as from studying spherical trigonometry.
Agreed. A cool article, but I ended up skimming through it for the sake of my overloaded brain.
Barth probably gunked up his keyboard after reading that. ;D
I started rewatching Enterprise this week. Those early episodes are much better than I remember. And Phlox is far less annoying than I thought. Jolene Blaylock is every bit as hawt as I recall.
The theme song is still stupid.
It's not completely horrible. It's just not Star Trek. Especially not what happened in the early years. (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fshakehead.gif&hash=d6326b4159f7e626ec4cddc26ebf21b107565a04)
It's more Star Trek than anything officially produced since it ended.
No, sadly, Voyager and Enterprise were merely holodeck simulations by Riker and Trio. Not Trek at all. :dreamer:
Quote from: mirth on August 17, 2017, 06:06:03 PM
I started rewatching Enterprise this week. Those early episodes are much better than I remember. And Phlox is far less annoying than I thought. Jolene Blaylock is every bit as hawt as I recall.
The theme song is still stupid.
Ive found this to be very true. we've been slowly going through the series recently and generally enjoy the shot.
the theme song is the worst. every time I hear it I imagine its Gus's pump up song before running.
Gus can easily be imagined as a cheesy 80s movie montage with appropriate leg warmer music, can't he?
I will always imagine Gus like this. :smitten:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FNhLuYoq.jpg&hash=fc6ca9b37068510a05c8939bf722781282226154)
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on August 17, 2017, 06:39:20 PM
Quote from: mirth on August 17, 2017, 06:06:03 PM
I started rewatching Enterprise this week. Those early episodes are much better than I remember. And Phlox is far less annoying than I thought. Jolene Blaylock is every bit as hawt as I recall.
The theme song is still stupid.
Ive found this to be very true. we've been slowly going through the series recently and generally enjoy the shot.
the theme song is the worst. every time I hear it I imagine its Gus's pump up song before running.
Agreed. Except for the theme song I've grown to like "Enterprise". Like any of the series it has its good and bad moments but I think some of the best are the ones with the Andorians. The Xindi story arcs are pretty good, too.
Gus would never spill his beer like in the pic above. And he usually cuddles his Battle Axe.
Hey now, you don't know how much beer he's had. ^-^ And he ain't gonna cuddle the axe while posing for the picture! Sheesh. :P
At least he's wearing pants.
Jonathan Frakes Drops Major Star Trek: Discovery Spoiler! (http://www.cbr.com/star-trek-discovery-mirror-universe/)
Yeah, it's not really a spoiler. It's another sign of how bad this show is going to be. Let's start off the season by already copying ideas that have been done to death.
The show premieres this Sunday night here in the US. Me and vomit guy have our buckets ready.
IIRC ST:NG had that issue in its first couple of seasons, which they were roasted for - copying old ideas and re-doing them. Then they brought in new writers and even had open submissions for scripts, and their storylines really took off. If they go this route I'm not sure people are going to have the patience for it to take root.
CBS isn't going to pull the plug right away on this thing. It's the cornerstone of their paid streaming service.
Quote from: mirth on September 19, 2017, 06:00:41 AM
CBS isn't going to pull the plug right away on this thing. It's the cornerstone of their paid streaming service.
Which will be watched by thousands on "those other sites" where you can watch any first-run movie or TV show for free. It's only a matter of time before it shows up, I'm sure.
Quote from: BanzaiCat on September 21, 2017, 12:57:36 PM
Quote from: mirth on September 19, 2017, 06:00:41 AM
CBS isn't going to pull the plug right away on this thing. It's the cornerstone of their paid streaming service.
Which will be watched by thousands on "those other sites" where you can watch any first-run movie or TV show for free. It's only a matter of time before it shows up, I'm sure.
I expect it will be on those sites a couple of hours after it airs.
Trek showrunner essentially confirms that the new Klingons are meant to reflect Trump supporters, and that their cultural split represents the electoral divide of the US 2016 election.
:o :2funny: L:-)
Okay, that's... not automatically a bad idea, in theory. But my desire to see the show has never dropped lower.
Oh, and Jason Isaacs (whom I generally like in his film roles), has essentially dared Trek fans
not to watch the show.
...challenge accepted! :bd:
^I hope that's not true but I suspect it is. :(
I lasted about 20 minutes before turning it off. I found myself disliking the character right from the start as soon as she started off with the whole sassy chick cliche. Then when I found out that she was supposedly raised and educated by Vulcans, her personality made less sense and was even more grating. The Uruk-Ha....I mean Klingons made no sense. Why not just come up with a new race if you're going to alter things that radically? Did anyone else think their armour looked like Dracula's from the Gary Oldman movie but with more spikey bits? And their ship looked like something the Orks would cobble together in 40K.
Watched it all. Both episodes. Actually had a trial for CBS All Access, but managed to watch it by "other means" before All Access could stream.
My reactions. As a guy who came to Star Trek watching TOS on UHF on his little semi-portable TV under his blankets at midnight in the early 80's.
Well...ok....um.....
Nah, not Star Trek, not canon, not even trying. Not visually, not thematically.
Not going to give up. I also remember tuning into The Next Generation in 1989 and thinking the same thing. So I'm going to hold on. But yeah, not a positive first impression.
Especially with the Klingons. I mean, THOSE KLINGONS! Absolutel warm crap. I would be ok with the different houses looking different and having some different goals, but they set that concept up and then shot it right the hell down by showing they all look and act sort of the same.
Federation Holo-tech. Well, ok, fine, you want to look slick. But I watched me some DS9 and they couldnt' even get that tech to work right then. Great job.
Klingons with cloaks...before the Romulans..before Balance of Terror.
YEEAH! Sorry. I'm too much of an old school Star Trek nerd. This probably isn't for me. This is why I wanted to piss on my TV once when Enterprise aired.
the man dropped the Balance of Terror cloak mic.......
as far as the first episode......
no teeth, deep throat, minimal lens flair and just enough ball tickling. 3.5 stars on yelp but why do my Klingon waiters look different again?
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 21, 2017, 04:36:35 PM
Trek showrunner essentially confirms that the new Klingons are meant to reflect Trump supporters, and that their cultural split represents the electoral divide of the US 2016 election.
...
People read way too much into things.
I'll be watching it without listening to BS from people who have nothing better to do than spoil something by sticking their agenda sticker on it to
inform people about what they
think it's about. Shit - even if it was about that, why would you watch it with a "real current life" view in your head anyway - it's sci-fi.
Some people just go out their way to spoil things - for themselves and others
I'm going to watch it with fresh eyes personally :nerd:
Quote from: SirAndrewD on September 24, 2017, 10:52:03 PM
Watched it all. Both episodes. Actually had a trial for CBS All Access, but managed to watch it by "other means" before All Access could stream.
My reactions. As a guy who came to Star Trek watching TOS on UHF on his little semi-portable TV under his blankets at midnight in the early 80's.
Well...ok....um.....
Nah, not Star Trek, not canon, not even trying. Not visually, not thematically.
Not going to give up. I also remember tuning into The Next Generation in 1989 and thinking the same thing. So I'm going to hold on. But yeah, not a positive first impression.
Especially with the Klingons. I mean, THOSE KLINGONS! Absolutel warm crap. I would be ok with the different houses looking different and having some different goals, but they set that concept up and then shot it right the hell down by showing they all look and act sort of the same.
Federation Holo-tech. Well, ok, fine, you want to look slick. But I watched me some DS9 and they couldnt' even get that tech to work right then. Great job.
Klingons with cloaks...before the Romulans..before Balance of Terror.
YEEAH! Sorry. I'm too much of an old school Star Trek nerd. This probably isn't for me. This is why I wanted to piss on my TV once when Enterprise aired.
Good summary. I'll add a few:
"We haven't encountered Klingons in over 100 years" followed by "Klingons killed your parents"
I keep hearing how the explanation for everything looking more tech advanced than TOS is "Oh, this is a modern interpretation of it". They why the TOS hand phaser? Even Pike didn't use the TOS hand phaser.
Sybok was a dumb idea. This character's background story is even worse.
Critical moment on the bridge: Let's go meet in the briefing room! -and- I'm gonna run make a phone call. Okay! ???
Starships do not enter atmospheres unless crashing. Period.
The delta shield was specific to the TOS USS Enterprise. Each starship had a different insignia. Now it's everywhere, even in the past.
Not only are those not Klingons, those are not Klingon ships! Not even close! Those are Lyran ships at best! (look it up).
What was with all of the "60s Batman TV show angled villain shots" and lens flares?
Hey, there's a strange reading in the debris field. Should we launch a shuttle? Nah. A nice probe then? Nope. Suit up and fly out 'cause it worked so well for an hour in Star Trek The Motion Picture? That's the one!
Phase cannons? 100 years later and they are still using Phase cannons?
That's good for now. I'm sure there's more but I need to go see if vomit guy's okay. He was up all night last night. ::)
bbmike: you're coming across unclear. Please elaborate on your disgust. ;D
Don't mince words. Tell us what you really think.
The site-that-shall-not-be-named has both episodes on it, so I've got it ready to go later when I have more time. I'll reserve my judgement until I've seen it, but I know how dangerous it is for anyone to F with Star Trek and canon, especially among the more rabid fan base out there. Sounds like they took a lot of liberties with it.
Quote from: bbmike on September 25, 2017, 05:36:18 AM
Sybok
This is all I need to know. (https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fvomit.gif&hash=f8c0cec79f834c3558ced52ccf681c80fdf7c2e4)
Sybok?!? That doesn't bode well.
Quote from: BanzaiCat on September 25, 2017, 05:45:52 AM
The site-that-shall-not-be-named has both episodes on it
Wargamer has both epiosdes?!
Quote from: mirth on September 25, 2017, 05:52:22 AM
Wargamer has both epiosdes?!
...suuuuuure. Both episodes of regret and shame.
Oh, and another thing. This is 10 years before TOS and I'm supposed to believe the Klingon war started 10 years before TOS? From Whom Gods Destroy:
KIRK (to Garth): I agree there was a time when war was necessary, and you were our greatest warrior. I studied your victory at Axanar when I was a cadet. In fact it's still required reading at the Academy.
Now, it was never said that Axanar was part of the Klingon war in TOS. I think FASA said it later in their RPG books. But let's say it was. "There was a time when war was necessary". You know, way, way, way back in the long ago of ten years. "...it's still required reading at the Academy". I know, I graduated from there just last year. ::)
I need some more coffee.....
Still not quite sure how you feel about the show there bbmike.....
Irish that coffee up a bit, bbmike...
Maybe with a ground up Valium as well....
I thought it was fun to watch.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on September 25, 2017, 02:26:55 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 21, 2017, 04:36:35 PM
Trek showrunner essentially confirms that the new Klingons are meant to reflect Trump supporters, and that their cultural split represents the electoral divide of the US 2016 election.
...
People read way too much into things.
People like the showrunner. ::) He should stop spoiling things for people on the show he's running. :arr:
I'm not sure you can spoil something this crappy.
Meanwhile, here's a more positive review from MovieBob (who thinks the only irritating thing is that it's being used to get people to sign up for a service).
And yes, he equivocates the Klingon "religious fundamentalists" with both Republicans and ISIS. (Bonus points for delivering "Make Qo'nos great again" in Klingonese.) Which he thinks is just GREAT! :buck2:
I've only watched about 20 minutes and I'm in agreement with some of the things bbmike said. A little bit of exposition would go a long way to explain some of the WTF decisions they make.
That said, the visuals are kind of appealing - I like the bridge viewscreen's width and that it looks like it's on the bottom (really? Okay, why not...shrug). The uniforms look like something stage actors would wear in a Star Trek musical in Las Vegas, though.
So the whole time I'm watching this, it feels like it's a prequel. Sort of like the first JJ ST movie, introducing the Kelvin. The Shenzhou (or whatever it is) feels like a prequel ship too. I thought the name of the starship was Discovery?
Had to go looking to see what's up with that: I'm sure there's spoilers, here.
https://moviepilot.com/p/star-trek-discovery-leaks-uss-shenzhou-is-the-discovery/4226361
edit: just finished the first episode. Unless I read talk here of it really amping up, I'm not going to bother. None of the characters, except one, are interesting (the alien guy on the bridge is fairly interesting/has decent lines, but the captain and first officer are not at all engaging). The Klingons are somewhat interesting; I admit I kind of like how they appear more alien. But the positives in my mind aren't nearly enough to outweigh the relative meh-ness of this first episode.
"Pending adjustment due to NFL and thus 60 Minutes overrun, Star Trek: Discovery's special linear CBS showcase on Sunday night drew 8.2 million total viewers and a 1.6 demo rating in fast nationals."
http://tvline.com/2017/09/25/star-trek-discovery-ratings-season-1-premiere-cbs/ (http://tvline.com/2017/09/25/star-trek-discovery-ratings-season-1-premiere-cbs/)
I watched both episodes on Space and thought it was okay. Enough to keep me watching the next episode, but I can't say I like it any better than The Orville.
The science officer is the best character. And interesting to note that Nicholas Meyer co-wrote (with Bryan Fuller) the second episode "Battle at the Binary Stars".
Quote from: bbmike on September 25, 2017, 05:36:18 AM
The delta shield was specific to the TOS USS Enterprise. Each starship had a different insignia. Now it's everywhere, even in the past.
I'll give them this one. Robert Justman, the original keeper of Trek continuity in TOS, always intended for the arrowhead insignia to be the starfleet insignia. However, for the episode Charlie X, he wanted the crew of the Antares to have a different symbol because they weren't Starfleet, they were Merchant Marine.
Unfortunately, the costume designers missed Justman's intent and started making different insignia for different starships and starbases. Justman sent out another memo in December of '67 trying to get William Theiss and the art department on board, but they just kept on going. At this point Justman told Roddenberry that he "couldn't put the shit back in the horse" and they just let it go.
Quote
TO: Bill Theiss
FROM: Bob Justman
SUBJECT: STARSHIP EMBLEMS
DATE: December 18, 1967
Whilst sitting in Dailies today, it was noticed that a Starship Captain (from another Starship) was wearing an emblem unfamiliar to yours truly. I have checked the occurences out with Mr. Roddenberry, who has reassured me that all Starship personnel wear the Starship emblem that we have established for our Enterprise Crew Members to wear.
Doubtless this situation has arisen due to the fact that a different Starship emblem was used last season on "CHARLIE X". However, the personnel of that other ship in that show were the equivalent of merchant marine or freighter personnel -- and therefore not entitled to bear this proud insignia on their individual and collective breasts.
Please do not do anything to correct this understandable mistake in the present episode. However, should we have Starfleet personnel in any other episodes, please make certain that they were the proper emblem.
Under penalty of death!
Signed this 18th day of December, in the year of our Lord, 1967, by
ROBERT H. JUSTMAN
Chief Inquisitor
CC: Gene Roddenberry John M. Lucas
D.C. Fontana
Gregg Peters
RHJ:sts
P.S. A carven "I'm sorry!" will be sufficient.
R.H.J.
^ Yep, that was the memo. If a canon explanation is needed, I can roll with the idea that around the first season of TOS, Starfleet experimented with assignment patches, and the Enterprise just drew the lottery of keeping the original arrowhead.
I'm not going to lose sleep over the emblem question. Retconning the lead as Spock's adopted sister is far more ridiculous.
Quote from: mirth on September 25, 2017, 01:51:33 PM
I'm not going to lose sleep over the emblem question. Retconning the lead as Spock's adopted sister is far more ridiculous.
Agreed.
My biggest hangup is still the Klingons. As much as I disliked Enterprise, and I honestly didn't feel the Klingons belonged in that series at all, it did go to great lengths to explain how and why the Klingons looked as they did.
This to me would be like them showing the Vulcans with horns and purple skin.
More on the insignia here (http://1701news.com/node/192/birth-starfleet-insignia.html). Note that Enterprise keep the different insignia idea. Yeah it's minor but I prefer the different insignias approach. I've come to accept the way it is but I'll still complain about it. I don't want to lose my nerd credentials. ^-^
So know you're falling back on Enterprise as a canonical source? Fascinating.
Oh no, I'm just pointing out how screwed up the keepers of Star Trek cannon are.
Star Trek canon is a myth at this point. It's been retconned to death.
Hell, Star Wars has a better organized universe than Trek.
And The Orville.
The. Orville is looking pretty good.
Quote from: mirth on September 25, 2017, 05:19:37 PM
Hell, Star Wars has a better organized universe than Trek.
To be fair it did have to kill 95% of the in-universe material off to get that way.
I'm not sure Star Trek could ever manage to fix all its retconns in the same fashion. TNG and DS9 tried a bit, but Enterprise blundered into the canon like a bull in china shop.
So far, Discovery is just throwing more gas on the fire that there is any real continuity. I guess I'll have to accept it, but I'm not sure the change for change's sake path that they're taking is the best or right one.
Consider this, right now it looks like AbramsTrek put a lot more care and effort into adhering to the look, feel and continuity of Star Trek than Discovery did.
^ugh
Watched the premiere last night. I thought it was fine, I had a hard time seeing detail on ships, everything seemed dark and the camera didn't stay on target for very long. It didn't make me want to shell out the $6 a month for CBS Streaming, though if if was on regular CBS I'd probably keep watching for a few more episodes.
I've seen some ads for the show streaming on Netflix too, is that only outside the US or something?
Quote from: RedArgo on September 26, 2017, 08:06:54 AM
I've seen some ads for the show streaming on Netflix too, is that only outside the US or something?
Yes. Netflix bought the international rights outside the US. The deal gave CBS the money to afford the show at $6-8 million per episode.
"We've had TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY... and now we have STD."
:2funny:
Is this thing still on? :P
^ lol.
For what it's worth, their review isn't nearly as negative as their opening joke would imply.
I'm listening to it now.
So this is a good show as long as you pretend it isn't called Star Trek.
Or if looked at as 117 years after TNG instead of before TOS. And in the Kelvinverse.
I like their thesis that the first two eps are basically a fourth AbramsTrek film.
(Also, if possible you should watch not just listen -- their facial expressions are great, and they put visual jokes into the clips they show.)
"What really worked about TNG [and about DS9] is that it's a world I really would want to live in. [...] I'm picturing living in the world of [STD] and I don't really want to."
That's fairly incisive. I'd agree with that as a chief reason (for want of a better word) of why I'm willing to put up with the various weaknesses of TOS and TNG and DS9, but haven't been able to tolerate VOY or ENT. Even though conceptually I really ought to like the latter two shows; but their weaknesses stand out in sharper contrast, and maybe this is why.
Just seeing the clips in the review is enough to make me want to skip STD.
Oh, yeah! -- haven't gotten to them yet.
The RLM guys don't seem to like The Orville (for reasons they don't go into), but their theory that it has an audience despite 20% on RTom, fits the thesis of "Is this a story we would want to live in?"
Worth noting however is that when they poke fun at the Orv for having a critic rating of 20%, user votes are more like 89% liked it, and the average THE AVERAGE rating for Orv (at the time of this ep's production anyway) is 4.3/5. So 89% users like it, and its score EVEN COUNTING IN THOSE WHO DON'T is 86%. But the critical consensus (at the time) is dirt low.
Keep in mind that "critics" are paid mouthpieces that are expected to churn out crap that is controversial, drives traffic to their site, and gets people talking about them and their rag, when normally nobody would. So giving something a 20% might be a cry for help from their print/site overlords. :D
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 29, 2017, 12:54:27 PM
Worth noting however is that when they poke fun at the Orv for having a critic rating of 20%, user votes are more like 89% liked it, and the average THE AVERAGE rating for Orv (at the time of this ep's production anyway) is 4.3/5. So 89% users like it, and its score EVEN COUNTING IN THOSE WHO DON'T is 86%. But the critical consensus (at the time) is dirt low.
I'd be curious to know how many episodes the critics got to review, as there's not yet a per-episode review aggregate up on RT.
In the situations when my wife's gotten advance review packets for TV shows, it's typically consisted of only the first one or two episodes. I know the Star Trek Discovery packet was three episodes.
If the reviews for Orville are based on the first one or two episodes alone, I can surely see the ratings being that low. It really took the third to fourth episode to really grow on me.
EDIT: Found the answer. Critics only reviewed through episode 3.
Quote from: bbmike on September 24, 2017, 02:16:36 PM
The main title sequence has already been released. Yes, I've already rolled my eyes at it.
...wtf did I just watch with my eyes?
GUYS! I JUST HAD A NIGHTMARE ABOUT THE MOST PRETENTIOUS TWADDLE AND STAR TREK BUT I REPEAT MYSELF!
The theme music was a bit confusing, too. Ding! -- ah, the classic opening chords... Dung -- uh... Dang -- wait.
Really? They could afford 4 to 6 million dollars an episode by selling the rights to Netflix outside the US, but they couldn't afford to buy rights to use the opening chords? So they decide to half-fake them, to give the mood but not the content?
And yet, at the end, the other classic opening fanfare chords are strongly played. So... ..... ........ why use an inferior Turkish Hollywood copy of the original to start?
Then it occurred to me: this is a microcosm of the series arc to come, isn't it? Starts like fake Star Trek, but by the end it'll be real Star Trek.
And then I realized why they created another prequel series instead of doing the otherwise reasonable thing and going for a proper sequel to the main timeline (perhaps a few decades onward, so that TNG/DS9/VOY characters could occasionally guest star).
They want to segue into stunt casting another Kirk, Spock, etc. And slowly introducing them for rating boosts. Heck if this series lasts ten years (dubious), or takes a couple of convenient time-skips forward (plausible), they can segue directly into remaking TOS.
Then I threw up a little in my mouth. I probably shouldn't have eaten three aspirin before watching that.
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 29, 2017, 03:29:23 PM
Then it occurred to me: this is a microcosm of the series arc to come, isn't it? Starts like fake Star Trek, but by the end it'll be real Star Trek.
And then I realized why they created another prequel series instead of doing the otherwise reasonable thing and going for a proper sequel to the main timeline (perhaps a few decades onward, so that TNG/DS9/VOY characters could occasionally guest star).
They want to segue into stunt casting another Kirk, Spock, etc. And slowly introducing them for rating boosts. Heck if this series lasts ten years (dubious), or takes a couple of convenient time-skips forward (plausible), they can segue directly into remaking TOS.
I wouldn't be shocked by that. The showrunners have already said that anything that we think looks like it's not canon now will be explained as the show goes further. The tie in novel already had Pike and the Enterprise appear (apparently looking just like they did in TOS, uniforms and all). As the show goes forward, the TOS era can be absorbed into the body of Discovery.
It's of note that Bryan Fuller's initial intent was for Discovery to be a one off anthology, and this story would be self contained and any further seasons would take place in different eras with different crews. CBS so disliked this idea that they showed Fuller the door. So yeah, prepare to be reimagined.
Quote from: mirth on September 29, 2017, 11:13:18 AM
Just seeing the clips in the review is enough to make me want to skip STD.
I never did sign up to watch the rest. I don't think I ever will.
Quote from: bbmike on September 29, 2017, 04:02:40 PM
I never did sign up to watch the rest. I don't think I ever will.
The first part by itself is abysmal. The second part raises it to average to slightly above average depending on your tolerances for the visualizations.
Both parts together are not even really the pilot, they're just the prologue and a setup for the REAL show, that starts in Episode 3. It's all one very long, convoluted and designed scheme to get All Access subscriptions.
I'm going to stick with it though, since it's not illegal to watch it on a friend's couch who is paying for it, I'm going to keep doing that.
I will say however, I like it better than Enterprise at this point. Enterprise almost lost me the second a farmer shot a Klingon in a cornfield. It DID lose me when time travel got dropped before the pilot was over.
I'll watch the STD pilot 100 times over than inflict myself with any more Time Trek.
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 29, 2017, 11:07:40 AM
I'm picturing living in the world of [STD] and I don't really want to."
only Mirth lives in an STD world, thats why he wants to skip it.
Quote from: GDS_Starfury on September 29, 2017, 06:47:50 PM
Quote from: JasonPratt on September 29, 2017, 11:07:40 AM
I'm picturing living in the world of [STD] and I don't really want to."
only Mirth lives in an STD world, thats why he wants to skip it.
You'd like it. You're actually an active GH participant in the STD world.
Watched the first two episodes. Didn't hate totally it. It doesn't belong in the TOS universe. Doesn't feel like a fit at all. The Sarek tie-in didn't work for me. The Klingons are cool villians, just not Klingons. I especially hated the Klingon ship designs. Couldn't tell the ships from the debris field they were floating in.
Decent show, but doesn't feel much like Trek. Maybe the JJ Trek.
I'll wait for a few more eps to drop and then try that free week of CBS Access to binge.
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 01, 2017, 07:04:09 AM
I'll wait for a few more eps to drop and then try that free week of CBS Access to binge.
Good idea. You're not really missing out by waiting.
For anyone who wants to watch some good, fun Trek - check out the 'In a Mirror, Darkly" two-parter of Enterprise. Re-watched it yesterday on Prime. Great fun.
The third episode was better than the first two.
Spoilers of the mild type....
Much darker than anything ever in Star Trek though. Even more than when Riker and Picard blew up the guy with all the space bugs infesting him.
I didn't really expect to ever see much David Cronenberg style body horror and straight up mass gore and dismemberment in Star Trek. The episode pretty much slid into a mix of Alien and Event Horizon.
Nor did I expect to see a grotesque menagerie of nefarious scientific dismemberment on a Starfleet vessel.
The USS Discovery is kind of a freakshow. I'm betting it's not a coincidence that it's hull number is NCC-1031
Interesting, but not very Star Trekish. A lot of cool TOS technological and biological callbacks though.
https://www.dslreports.com/shownews/CBS-Saw-200-Boost-in-Streaming-Sign-Ups-Thanks-to-Star-Trek-140472
CBS: Completely Bull S--t. L:-)
Quote from: SirAndrewD on October 02, 2017, 01:33:08 AM
The third episode was better than the first two.
Spoilers of the mild type....
Much darker than anything ever in Star Trek though. Even more than when Riker and Picard blew up the guy with all the space bugs infesting him.
I didn't really expect to ever see much David Cronenberg style body horror and straight up mass gore and dismemberment in Star Trek. The episode pretty much slid into a mix of Alien and Event Horizon.
Nor did I expect to see a grotesque menagerie of nefarious scientific dismemberment on a Starfleet vessel.
The USS Discovery is kind of a freakshow. I'm betting it's not a coincidence that it's hull number is NCC-1031
Interesting, but not very Star Trekish. A lot of cool TOS technological and biological callbacks though.
All good points. I liked Ep3 though I agree it doesn't feel Trek-ish. This would be a fine sci-fi show without the Star Trek moniker. Calling it Trek feels like a limitation rather than a selling point.
Jason Isaacs is a welcome edition. He'll keep the show watchable for me.
^You paid to watch it? :o
I'm enjoying this as well. Nice edge for a ST universe show.
Yeah a bunch of stuff is not canon and the ship design is dumb but I'm at least interested enough to see where they are going.
I get the feeling that you all take the shows too seriously. Just turn off yer brain and enjoy the ride..... the whole purpose of TV.
Hate to say it, but I'm starting to like this show.
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2017, 10:09:00 PM
Hate to say it, but I'm starting to like this show.
Don't be daft.
Episode 4 was very good and felt a little more Trek like. The pieces are starting to come together.
Plus, I was drinking bourbon in my NCC-1701 glass while I watched. Seemed to help.
They even explained that primary hull design :P
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2017, 10:12:51 PM
Episode 4 was very good and felt a little more Trek like. The pieces are starting to come together.
It had its good and bad points.
It absolutely had a traditional Star Trek moral dilemma, and it came at it from a different angle where Starfleet didn't go with the moral choice.
Lorca is kind of a badass. He might give Commander Adama a run for his money on space arsekickers.
The actions of the security chief, Landry, with the Water Bear were beyond irrational. Not even remotely the acts of a sane or coherent human being, especially considering their former interactions. She wasn't acting un-Starfleet, she was acting like a maniac and the results of her decision was pretty much what any sane person would expect. Seriously strained my disbelief there.
And, still, ugh, the Klingons. Apparently they find humans a tasty snack now (I know, there's revenge heart eating in DS9). I just still can't take them as even being remotely the same species in the rest of the canon. The writers keep saying they're trying to make the Klingons more sympathetic and relaetable, but I've yet to see anything that does that. All we've gotten from them is that they're Xenophobic and more than a bit genocidal, not something that makes them relateable or sympathetic at all.
It's not just a problem of the way they're portrayed either, the actors seem to have a hard time emoting through all their makeup and it's distracting.
Dunno, I felt it was a bit of a step back from Episode 3, but then again I mostly feel that because there were Klingons involved. I'm nearing the edge of abandoning ship though.
I think you'll see an out for the Klingon's being so alien. At least it was hinted at tonight.
Lorca is a badass. One of the highlights of the show for me. Same for Saru, another excellent character.
The thing with the security chief was dumb, but they laid some ground work earlier in the episode for her character taking such an extreme risk. So, I was able to roll with it within the context of the episode.
Anyway, I liked the episode and how the show is developing. What I've seen so far is light years better than anything we got from season 1 of TNG.
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2017, 10:34:47 PM
Anyway, I liked the episode and how the show is developing. What I've seen so far is light years better than anything we got from season 1 of TNG.
45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG.
Quote from: SirAndrewD on October 08, 2017, 10:23:39 PM
The writers keep saying they're trying to make the Klingons more sympathetic and relaetable, but I've yet to see anything that does that. All we've gotten from them is that they're Xenophobic and more than a bit genocidal, not something that makes them relateable or sympathetic at all.
The showrunner explicitly said he's trying to make the Klingons seem (American) Republican.
So take "more sympathetic and relateable" with that and the other evidence: even Republicans will enjoy this show because they can sympathize and relate to the new Klingon subspecies! :buck2:
(I understand that the writers are kind of painted into a corner about how to transition into some version of the TOS Klingon relationship with the Federation after Enterprise. I guess...)
Quote from: mirth on October 08, 2017, 10:13:53 PM
Plus, I was drinking bourbon in my NCC-1701 glass while I watched. Seemed to help.
O0
Quote from: JasonPratt on October 09, 2017, 08:11:07 AM
The showrunner explicitly said he's trying to make the Klingons seem (American) Republican.
So take "more sympathetic and relateable" with that and the other evidence: even Republicans will enjoy this show because they can sympathize and relate to the new Klingon subspecies! :buck2:
Yeah, I'd read all that. I was more going on the NYCC comments by producer Alex Kurtzman.
"There have been lots of questions about that, there have been lots of questions about the look of the Klingons and the truth is that we wanted to shift everyone's perspective about what the Klingons are because they're so traditionally relegated to just being the bad guys," Kurtzman said. "And that meant making visual changes, too, while hopefully maintaining and retaining the spirit of the original Klingons.
And when we conceived of the idea of the first season being about the war with the Klingons it was terribly important for all of us to make sure that we represented both sides of the war in a way that was understandable and relatable," Kurtzman said. "And while the Klingons have been given specific treatment and various iterations in the past, we needed to know what it was like for them to go through this, too, and to humanize, for lack of a better word."He was directly asked about why they looked different, and his response was to say that they change the look because they wanted to change the perception of them as a race. He went on to pat himself and Discovery on the back for making Klingons multifaceted. I really found that disingenuous based on what we've seen so far. Firstly, because Star Trek VI, TNG and DS9 did a LOT to make the Klingons seem more than just generic bad guys, so the idea that Discovery is some how breaking new ground here is sort of laughable. Secondly, I don't see these Klingons as breaking new ground at all, in fact, I see them as a regression to the more generic villains of TOS. Given where we are, they have less in common with Trump and Republicans and remind me most of Nazis, ugly four nostriled sentient flesh eating Nazis.
Having Nazis come to mind when watching the Klingons seems to defeat the stated purpose of them not being the "bad guys".
Again, we'll see going forward. I hate that they may be keeping things hidden from the viewer in a silly JJ Abrams style mystery box. We may yet see something that makes sense later, but we're getting drawn along like a cat chasing a string till then. Good strategy for holding subscribers.
I will say though, that I took Kurtzman's comments over the weekend to indicate that the Klingons in the show are the only ones we'll see going forward.
I dunno. I thought the deal that the Torchbearer dude was offered at the end of the last episode hinted at a bridge from the STD Klingons to something we're more familiar with.
Quote from: mirth on October 09, 2017, 03:42:54 PM
I dunno. I thought the deal that the Torchbearer dude was offered at the end of the last episode hinted at a bridge from the STD Klingons to something we're more familiar with.
Entirely possible. I sort of hope for the same thing. We'll see what lies in the Mystery Box.
Agreed. I kinda like how they're setting up to explore how much each side is willing to sacrifice its ideals in order to win the war.
Quote from: mirth on October 09, 2017, 03:57:20 PM
Agreed. I kinda like how they're setting up to explore how much each side is willing to sacrifice its ideals in order to win the war.
I like that too. It ties in pretty nicely with DS9. It also adds depth to the militarization of Starfleet that existed between TOS and Star Trek VI.
Kirk and Sisko had no problems at all switching off the explorer tag and going soldier whenever a shooting war broke out.
Ok, sounds like I'm going to have to watch Episode 2, the way y'all are going on about it.
Don't pay for it!
Quote from: bbmike on October 09, 2017, 08:15:56 PM
Don't pay for it!
:2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
You're hilarious, bbmike. :)
No shit. That's the funniest thing I've seen in 2017!
Quote from: SirAndrewD on October 09, 2017, 03:38:16 PMGiven where we are, they have less in common with Trump and Republicans and remind me most of Nazis, ugly four nostriled sentient flesh eating Nazis.
Yes, but that's because you're sane. ::) ;) The propaganda coming through western cultural nodes for at least the past forty-five years, and ramping up in intensity over the past year and a half (FOR SOME REASON :buck2: ) pushes people to feel like Republicans are ugly, deformed, sentient, flesh-eating Nazis. In effect, and to some extent even literally.
It speaks to the mindset of that other showrunner quote, which is unfortunately typical in the cultural media: he looks at (and helps design) ugly deformed sentient flesh-eating Nazis, and thinks he's giving an edgy, novel, and topically important social critique of Republicans.
Huh... the vibe I got from the first episode was that Klingons were a caricature of ISIL not the Republicans.... holy sect bent on uniting a divided culture through war....
Anyway, it is getting better and the third episode was very good.
Quote from: Barthheart on October 10, 2017, 08:47:01 AM
Huh... the vibe I got from the first episode was that Romulan's were a caricature of ISIL not the Republicans.... holy sect bent on uniting a divided culture through war....
Anyway, it is getting better and the third episode was very good.
Ummm...Romulans?
I managed to watch the first four episodes without thinking about Republicans once.
Quote from: mirth on October 10, 2017, 08:48:18 AM
Quote from: Barthheart on October 10, 2017, 08:47:01 AM
Huh... the vibe I got from the first episode was that Romulan's were a caricature of ISIL not the Republicans.... holy sect bent on uniting a divided culture through war....
Anyway, it is getting better and the third episode was very good.
Ummm...Romulans?
Yeah, brain fart while too busy... fixed... :buck2:
Quote from: mirth on October 10, 2017, 08:49:39 AM
I managed to watch the first four episodes without thinking about Republicans once.
Any Horta leanings?
Hortas seem very libertarian.
They are very Libertarian and also very pro-mining. :DD
Quote from: mirth on October 10, 2017, 08:49:39 AM
I managed to watch the first four episodes without thinking about Republicans once.
I would expect that makes it 400 percent better immediately. :arr:
^lol
:2funny:
I'm enjoying this - but I'm enjoying this as a sci-fi program. I'm not really getting the Star Trek feel...even though they've got the badges, the NCC designations and the bastardised music...I'm just not feeling Trekkie about it.
So enjoying it - but not as a Star Trek fan...just a fan of sci-fi.
Quote from: JudgeDredd on October 11, 2017, 01:04:11 AM
I'm enjoying this - but I'm enjoying this as a sci-fi program. I'm not really getting the Star Trek feel...even though they've got the badges, the NCC designations and the bastardised music...I'm just not feeling Trekkie about it.
So enjoying it - but not as a Star Trek fan...just a fan of sci-fi.
Stop being sensible. You're supposed to be wearing a three sizes too small redshirt t-shirt, rubber Spock ears and throwing rotten fruit at the screen screaming "Boo! Hiss" but still watching it anyway.
At least that's what I'm doing.
Being sensible is very over rated.
Quote from: Sir Slash on October 11, 2017, 06:45:31 PM
Being sensible is very over rated.
Yet so seldom achieved by the masses!
A very sensible statement.
I've watch all of the episodes so far and it's not too bad of a show. Doug Jones as Saru is definitely my favorite character.
Good enough to keep me watching for at least the first nine episodes and then I'll see if I continue on when the series picks up again in January.
"Hard work, like monogamy, is vastly overrated." - Huey Long on a radio interview.
Quote from: mirth on October 10, 2017, 08:49:39 AM
I managed to watch the first four episodes without thinking about Republicans once.
Me too!
I'm hooked on the show. I absolutely love it!
Quote from: Centurion40 on October 13, 2017, 08:53:04 PM
I'm hooked on the show. I absolutely love it.
Thank you Android Box!
Same way I'm watching it.
Hey 40 Cent!!! \m/
Damn, as I live and breathe...! Welcome back 40.
Thanks eh.
It's my fave show now that Preacher and GoT are on hiatus.
Cent! My man! What's shaking dude?
Quote from: Staggerwing on October 13, 2017, 09:51:51 PM
Cent! My man! What's shaking dude?
A couple of cheeks and a chin.
I can relate.
And we have the first F-bomb in Star Trek history.
They boldly went there.
I actually liked the episode overall, but still had a few issues.
I was far happier than I thought I'd be with Harry Mudd. That was actually really well done by Rainn Wilson. He's no Roger C. Caramel but he absolutely had the Mudd feel.
I liked them expanding on the moral quandary with the mushroom drive and coming to a very Starfleet solution in the end. Seriously, the humans are the scariest race in Star Trek, those guys will do anything.
More Lorca badassery. He's surely no "heart of an explorer" Captain.
Klingon Disruptors are sick! DISRUPTED!
Still couldn't stand the Klingon designs, this time focused on the ships since we finally get a clear look at a few. That Battlecruiser was NOT a D7, no matter what was said on screen. The Klingon Raiders looked really silly and way too fragile for Klingon designs. I know, I know "many houses" but if you're going to name drop D7, one of the most iconic designs of Star Trek, and then show something completely different from a D7, then the many houses thing starts to wear thin.
Are we supposed to like Burnam? Right now, every episode seems to progress thusly: 1)Burnam is right and everyone is wrong. 2) Burnam convinces some people she's right, they only see she's right through her stern, absolutely correctness that they just couldn't see earlier themselves 3) The ones that didn't think Burnam was right suffer horribly from their wrongness and then realize Burnam was right.
If Green was playing Burnam with the least bit of sympathy or character, it'd be easier to liker her I'm sure. However, she's got the worst plot armor I've seen in a character in a long time.
Lots of cool TOS easter eggs. Obscure, uber-Trek Nerd Robert April name drop.
They're not doing a very good job in keeping the secret on the new Lt. Tyler.
I had fun watching this one overall. Enough to keep me on board another week.
^Pretty much full agreement with all the above. I'm also bothered by the Klingon ship designs. They are simply terrible.
Liked Mudd, Burnam is a terrible protagonist (is she the protagonist?), Tyler isn't a secret at all - in fact, this is heading the way I thought.
Does Archer really belong on that list of Starfleet's greatest?
Very good review of Epsiode 5
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/15/arts/television/star-trek-discovery-season-1-episode-5-recap.html (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/15/arts/television/star-trek-discovery-season-1-episode-5-recap.html)
I missed the Rura Penthe reference.
So they are basically cramming any and every reference to Star Trek in any way they can?
Quote from: bbmike on October 16, 2017, 11:40:01 AM
So they are basically cramming any and every reference to Star Trek in any way they can?
Watch the show and decide for yourself :P
Quote from: mirth on October 15, 2017, 09:02:01 PM
And we have the first F-bomb in Star Trek history.
X 2!!! Booyeah!
Captain Lorca is a bad, bad man.
Quote from: mirth on October 23, 2017, 08:58:29 AM
Captain Lorca Alex Kurtzman is a bad, bad man.
fixed
Quote from: bbmike on October 23, 2017, 09:07:46 AM
Quote from: mirth on October 23, 2017, 08:58:29 AM
Captain Lorca Alex Kurtzman is a bad, bad man.
fixed
Break out those fancy Trek glasses, pour some bourbon and watch an episode.
The show has been renewed.
"Star Trek: Discovery" continues to live long and prosper. CBS All Access has given a second-season pickup to the latest series in the venerable sci-fi franchise, the streaming service announced Monday.
Quote from: WallysWorld on October 23, 2017, 09:36:54 AM
The show has been renewed.
"Star Trek: Discovery" continues to live long and prosper. CBS All Access has given a second-season pickup to the latest series in the venerable sci-fi franchise, the streaming service announced Monday.
I sense an appearance from Vomit Guy is coming
Renewal was a foregone conclusion. Netflix picked up the tab for the entire series, so for CBS there was zero risk and potentially huge reward for Season 1. Even if the CBS All Access numbers aren't what the network hoped for, I can't see how they'd not opt for a second season considering what they have to potentially gain.
Not that the fan response in Season 1 isn't important. How this season ends will be very largely informative on if people stick around for the second season.
As for the latest episode, it was pretty good. There is a steady increase in quality as the show goes on.
I liked the new and improved crew way the crew is getting along. They seem to have just been worn down by Burnham's incredible and constant rightness, so they really don't want to argue anymore.
Enterprise name drop!
After this season I'd imagine Lorca is going to be sharing a cell next to Garth of Izar.
Vulcan terrorists? I mean, that's most illogical.
The Vulcan Science Academy making concessions to appease Vulcan terrorists? EVEN MOAR MOST ILLOGICAL.
I mean really, that plot point didn't make a lot of sense for the Vulcans. It looks like we're going back to Enterprise era Vulcans as space-dicks. I kind of thought Enterprise had an entire story trying to to explain their space-dickery.
Of course Enterprise had an entire story explaining why Klingons don't have ridges, and we see how Discovery feels about that thus far.
Thank you show for not showing the Admiral's "Cruiser" on screen. I feared it'd be a Constitution class, and I rightfully feared how the SFX team would "reimagine" the classic design.
Man, speaking of space-dicks, those Klingons. I mean, they've devolved right back to their TOS levels of mustache twirling villainy. So much for the "deeper multi faceted" Klingons promised by Kurtzman. All these Klingons do is double down on constantly on blind backstabbing. Truly the one dimensional bad guys that we were promised would not appear.
But, yeah, other than that, good job. It was a Star-Treky episode of Discovery, something that'd been lacking. It was made better by a lack of Klingon screen time and few exterior views of ships outside of Discovery.
I wasn't thrilled with this week's Sarek storyline and the further retconning of the Sarek family history or the retconning of the Vulcans in general. I do like the actor cast as young Sarek, but I'd rather they stop with that particular storyline (which clearly the are intending to make a major part of the show). It undermines the rest of the story, imo.
QuoteAfter this season I'd imagine Lorca is going to be sharing a cell next to Garth of Izar.
Seriously. I'm not sure Lorca is around for season 2. Dude has issues.
QuoteMan, speaking of space-dicks, those Klingons.
Are the Klingons trying to start a war with the entire galaxy? That was a seriously dick move, totally without honor.
I'm still enjoying it overall.
A question for all you Trek-perts. In the original series, the episode where the guy with the black cat trying to stop the U.S. from putting nukes in space, and Kirk and company had to help him? Was there ever an explanation for who he was or where he came from? The future or some advanced race? Was there ever a follow-on in the other series or books with him showing-up again or who he was working for? Or do we just not know anything about him?
That was Gary Seven. The episode was Assignment: Earth. There were a couple of novels about Gary Seven that were pretty good. If you are interested I can look up the titles. They do sort of explain some background information. The episode was actually a pilot for another TV series by Roddenberry but it didn't get picked up. O0
Here we go: Assignment: Eternity (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Assignment:_Eternity). A good read.
[edit]He also appeared in The Eugenics Wars: The Rise and Fall of Khan Noonien Singh (http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Eugenics_Wars). I didn't like those books though.
BONUS:
Here's out cat dressed for Halloween as Gary Seven's cat Isis. :nerd:
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fbi.jpg&hash=691cec4fd444fd87aafef102d31d755f5e89f0a1)
Quote from: mirth on October 23, 2017, 02:30:33 PM
I wasn't thrilled with this week's Sarek storyline and the further retconning of the Sarek family history or the retconning of the Vulcans in general. I do like the actor cast as young Sarek, but I'd rather they stop with that particular storyline (which clearly the are intending to make a major part of the show). It undermines the rest of the story, imo.
Agreed. I mean, Sarek LIED! As Spock so often tells us "Vulcans are incapable of lying". While I understand that his blanket statements of what Vulcans are and are not capable of are sort of hyperbolic and misleading, the lie Sarek told was pretty bold faced and not falling into the typical Vulcan loopholes of omission, half truths or exaggeration.
Further, Sarek's lie did nothing positive for anyone in his family. He was faced with an illogical ultimatum from the Vulcan Science Academy, and he made the only logical choice when faced with his decision. His lie did nothing to make Burnham feel better, if anything it made her feel far worse. He also lied to Amanda, which is just a stunning act for the character.
I know that Sarek hid a lot of strong emotions for his family beneath his logical veneer, but part of the arc of his character is that he never broke that veneer until his body and mind was literally falling apart.
I'm not sure he made the logical choice in any case. There was no guarantee Spock would or could accept a later appointment with the VSA. The logical choice would have been to give the slot to Burnham and then address the issue with. Spock when it was his time.
Anyway the entire story line involves such maasive retconning of the characters' histories that it is utterly ridiculous. Burnham must have some seriously bad shit ahead of her to never be so much as mentioned by any member of the Sarek clan in the future.
So, had the Admiral's mission gone well, would Lorca have attempted to arrange an "accident" for her upon her return?
I'm wondering if he had information that it definitely would not go well.
Quote from: mirth on October 23, 2017, 04:33:14 PM
I'm not sure he made the logical choice in any case. There was no guarantee Spock would or could accept a later appointment with the VSA. The logical choice would have been to give the slot to Burnham and then address the issue with. Spock when it was his time.
Anyway the entire story line involves such maasive retconning of the characters' histories that it is utterly ridiculous. Burnham must have some seriously bad shit ahead of her to never be so much as mentioned by any member of the Sarek clan in the future.
I think you may be right from a purely logical standpoint.
Where I was thinking that Sarek could defend the Spock choice came from the sheer illogic of the VSA's ultimatum to him. From his standpoint he may logically conclude that Spock would have the better chance given the apparent, and very un-vulcan, xenophobia being exhibited. Spock, as at least half Vulcan might stand a better chance of success, while Burnham might thrive more in Starfleet service.
But you're right, he hadn't consulted Spock, and clearly we know from canon that Spock's decision wasn't what Sarek desired.
I think Sarek could've defended either decision with logic. What can't be defended was the meaningless lie.
I have no defense for the writers making this decision with Sarek's family. Sadly, it's the way they decided to make it. Only thing I can say is that Spock and Sarek were so private that Kirk didn't even know who Spock's parents were until they were standing in front of him in Journey to Babel. Still, that's a pretty weak defense considering how much of the history of the house of Sarek came out after that moment.
^I'm not reading any of those posts above. I still might binge watch this after the last episode of the season airs in November. And then I'll let you all know just how wrong and bad it is. :arr:
When you think about it, it does stretch the limits of belief that Kirk wouldn't have known that his half-Vulcan first oficer was the son of the Vulcan ambassador and the ambassador's Terran wife.
You'd think that little tidbit would've been in his personnel file.
Vulcans must be really good at keeping things out of the press.
Quote from: bbmike on October 23, 2017, 04:55:51 PM
^I'm not reading any of those posts above. I still might binge watch this after the last episode of the season airs in November. And then I'll let you all know just how wrong and bad it is. :arr:
SPOILER! Spock is Kirk's father with Q who is played by a transgender Bruce Vilanch.
Playboy is going to have a transgender centerfold so........ sure.
Thanks for the info about Gary Seven bbMike. That really clears up something I've always wondered about. O0
It's easy to forget that a 2-year series has TONS of books that cover minor characters/one-off characters from TOS. Enough to fill another 30 seasons at least.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/22/arts/television/star-trek-discovery-season-1-episode-6-recap.html
Really enjoyed the most recent episode. Felt the most Trek-like of any so far. Rainn Wilson as Harry Mudd is a treat. Helped that there were no Klingons or Sarek in this ep.
Seemed a little weird that the Discovery was back on routine patrol after last episode. And the idea that Lorca would bother rescuing a "space whale" in the middle of a war was a stretch too. Minor quibbles though.
Yeah, I liked that one fine. More like this.
I really want the Andorian space suit.
Missed opportunity at the end for "HARCOURT! HARCOURT FENTON MUDD!"
Given the likely identity of Lt. Tyler, I find his interactions with Burnham kind of horrifying, potentially depressingly sad. We'll see how it goes.
But, yeah. Fun episode. Closest to the feel of TOS that we've had in a while, even closer than a lot of TNG managed. Wilson hits it out of the park as Mudd and it's one of the few things they've really gotten right. And yes, the episode was massively improved by the lack of Klingons.
I think I enjoyed it as well or better than most episodes of Enterprise or Voyager. Way better than Season 1 of TNG. Massively inferior to its TNG sister episode Cause and Effect however.
Absolutely a move in the right direction for the show.
Yeah, the Burnham/Tyler relationship is interesting. I really don't see things going well for Burnham in the long run. Not just with Tyler, but in general.
The Andorian spacesuit was pretty good.
Tonight, on Star Trek...
KLINGON BEWBS!!!!!
:D How many do they have? And how do they sharpen their nipples into spikes?
Quote from: Sir Slash on November 13, 2017, 11:33:09 AM
:D How many do they have? And how do they sharpen their nipples into spikes?
Actually, you're very very sadly not far off on the nipple thing.
Lets just say that in Star Trek Discovery, the ridges on a Klingon aren't confined to the head.
Discovery last night surely boldly went where no Star Trek show has gone before.
OUCH! How can you not see something like that after seeing it? They should give a warning at the start. A scene in the Netflix series, "Marco Polo" has about a dozen naked women standing waiting for one to be chosen for the Khan as," Royal Concubine". And without sounding too judgemental of me, not a decent pair in the whole lot. I don't know if it's a cultural thing, statement on them being slaves, or maybe nobody with any real curves showed-up for extras, but cheese, I felt sorry for the Khan. :idiot2:
What's worse was that the scene in question was a rape scene (though there's a lot of story weirdness caught up in that). Pretty much resembled something out of an H.R. Gieger painting.
Yeah, hard to unsee, but I guess it wasn't gratuitous in the context of the story.
All in all I actually liked the last two episodes of Discovery that took us to the midseason break. They were game changers and hit a button that MIGHT make the TOS diehards happy when the show returns in January.
It also has a really cool battle scene and Lorca has cemented himself very firmly in the mantle of Star Trek DGAF Captains like Kirk and Sisko. Even almost literally had a scene where Lorca put on Sunglasses and told the Klingons to "Deal with it" before going all Stannis the Mannis on them.
So yeah, solid end to the first half. Not going to spoil, but where we go in January is anyone's guess and it might become a very different show in more ways than just story.
Spiked Klingon nipples is pretty bold all right. No wonder the males are so vicious.
Liked it - and started to "feel" a bit more trekky towards the end. The last two episodes were well done. Loved them and as said - Mud was excellent.
I'm not sure where they're going with Lorca, but the dude is a bad, bad man.
Anyway, this show is much better than I expected. Looking forward to the second half of the season.
Mike and Rich from Red Letter Media (who less famously but just as thoroughly as their Star Wars Prequel critiques, ran a series on the Trek films long ago), drive themselves insane with a post-mortem on Orville's first season and the Discovery mid-season break.
Worth it even for just their theory about where they hope the show has the balls to go in the second half. Skip to 36:40 for the theory. Rich (kind of in awe): "That is... that is the only idea that might salvage the Discovery as a show for me!"
Captain Killy!
Excellent episode. Stunned that they actually had a major connection and callbacks to Enterprise and Tholian Web.
Really moved the show into a new frontier. I still hate the visual decisions and think the show is a bit weaker for it, but I'm really liking it now. Better than Voyager and Enterprise for me for sure.
I wish they hadn't ended up where they did. I was hoping for something a little more original. And I'm wondering why there's no monitoring of the brig. Tyler's arc is exactly what I figured it would be.
Good episode though. Still liking the show. Captain Killy made me chuckle too.
Quote from: mirth on January 09, 2018, 10:53:17 AM
I wish they hadn't ended up where they did. I was hoping for something a little more original.
Mike was hoping that they did end up somewhere a little more creative.
[spoiler]Can I do spoiler tags?[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Oh good, I know how to![/spoiler]
[spoiler]Are you really sure you want to hear the theory?[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Mike's theory is that they haven't gone to the Mirror universe at all. Rather, the show
has been set so far in the Mirror universe, and now they're in the more-or-less normal TOS universe.[/spoiler]
[spoiler]Admittedly this is a wish-fulfillment theory, as he readily admits. "No, they're never going to do that." ;)[/spoiler]
[spoiler]But just in case: spoiler.[/spoiler]
I might have to try binge watching the first few episodes of this for free. Don't know how far I'll make it.
Quote from: bbmike on January 09, 2018, 11:13:17 AM
I might have to try binge watching the first few episodes of this for free. Don't know how far I'll make it.
Oh, you're going to hate it :P
Its bettet then Gundam. :DD
If I watch it you're likely to get a Prattian post from me like his Gundam one. :buck2:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bp8dDjtCYAAxPYX.jpg)
Quote from: bbmike on January 09, 2018, 12:33:07 PM
If I watch it you're likely to get a Prattian post from me like his Gundam one. :buck2:
I promise not to read your post too.
Good review of the latest episode
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/16/arts/television/star-trek-discovery-season-1-episode-11-the-wolf-inside.html
I should watch this again. Only got through the first episode or two.
But Rick and Morty currently have my attention.
The last episode explained some things.
Like how Jar Jar ruined Star Trek AND Star Wars? ^-^
Or how Spock's father started-out as a Romulan Bird-of-War commander. He must've been 'under cover'.
Damn good episode this week.
Quote from: mirth on January 30, 2018, 09:31:01 PM
Damn good episode this week.
I hated it.
Well, hate is a strong word.
I liked the episode, but decided I might hate Discovery.
I thought Lorca was insane, but apparently everyone in Starfleet is insane.
Quote from: mirth on February 06, 2018, 10:32:19 PM
I thought Lorca was insane, but apparently everyone in Starfleet is insane.
It's an old Starfleet tradition to give crazy pills to its senior Captains and Flag officers. Discovery isn't any different.
A little thing I worked up once that needs some polish, but got the point across...
(https://i.imgur.com/FfPDocG.jpg)
:2funny:
Is that list invalid, or just incomplete? I keep trying to find Janeway's photo... ???
that ending was so lame.
Quote from: JasonPratt on February 13, 2018, 09:06:28 AM
Is that list invalid, or just incomplete? I keep trying to find Janeway's photo... ???
LOL, you got me.
Quote from: mirth on February 13, 2018, 07:49:30 PM
that ending was so lame.
Yep. Terrible. Lets just hand wave the entire damned season in a few inexplicable minutes. We didn't like that story anyway say the writers! Enjoy your Klingon Ex Machina!
So many opportunities to bring the show in line more with the canon, so many lost chances that they either only did half right or squandered.
Only redeeming factor, the design of the surprise ship at the end. While not 100% what I hoped for, it was light years better than literally every Starfleet design throughout the season. It was like they were saying "See, we could've listened to what you wanted, and here's a bone for you!". It both thrilled and frustrated me equally.
Oh, and Clint Howard's cameo was boss. Best thing about the entire season.
Will I be there for season 2? I think so despite my bitching. The last moment might be a promise of a new beginning next season to finally make it more of a Star Trek show. It was clear that the writers and producers didn't like the story they were left with when they fired Bryan Fuller too late in the process to start again. Maybe if they can start fresh without having to erase everything he did in a back to front fashion, it'll be better.
I'm sure I've shared this, but William Windom (Commodore Decker) bought my mom a dozen roses and took her to dinner after encountering her when she was an extra in a film. Mom was a looker, and no son really likes to think this way but she was built. Not saying how the date went since I was pretty young at the time, but I remember spending the night with Grandma that evening ::)
Oh and lest I forget....Rene Auberjonois was also in the film! Brewster McCloud, long considered one of the worst movies ever made :2funny:
There's going to be a second season.
I will say that Michelle Yeoh was awesome in that season finale. She owned every scene she was in. The show I want to watch is centered around her Mirror Universe character.
I like Tilly more than ever now.
And yeah, the Clint Howard cameo was a nice touch.
I'm wondering if they'll drag Spock into season 2. He should be aboard the Enterprise as Pike's Science Officer.
Kill it with fire and give me a real one. A second season you say... maybe I should now watch past the 4th episode of the first season. It obviously got better.
Did it turn into platoon in space? Or did it settle down and get over itself and it's "breakthrough" swearing scenes? :P
If you didn't like the first four episodes, you will not like the rest.
It is a flawed show with some huge problems with plot, but it has some interesting ideas. The cast overall is excellent and really is what made it worth watching imo. I appreciate trying something new with TV Trek. I really wasn't interested in watching another Voyager or Enterprise. Nor do I want anymore of the JJ Abrams Trek. That "Beastie Boys Saves the Galaxy" movie was the last straw for me.
Hopefully the second season of Discovery is better. If it is not, I doubt there will be a third season.
I love this show! Yeah the season finale blew a goat, but overall I love this show.
The finale was so-so, but the last minute blew my mind as a nostalgic fan of TOS.
Enough to keep me watching the second season.
^^ Rich comparing Discovery to Farscape. Kind of legit? Except darker.
Rich: "How does it feel to live long enough to see your favorite franchises go down in flames?"
Mike: "...it feels great."
Heh. They nailed the evil Admiral trope.
This reminds me that it has been a few years since I watched Farscape through.
I've been getting awfully nostalgic for completed series that no one can/has yet ruined. I should go revist that again. :smitten:
Pike has been cast for season 2
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/star-trek-discovery-enlists-anson-mount-as-captain-kirks-predecessor-1100848
Whether or not they include Spock in the show, he would be on Enterprise as Pike's science officer during the timeline Discovery is set.
https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-wrath-of-khan-director-reveals-he-was-making-a-star-1826083068
Quote from: mirth on May 16, 2018, 07:48:11 PM
https://io9.gizmodo.com/the-wrath-of-khan-director-reveals-he-was-making-a-star-1826083068
Interesting, but I wonder if it would even resemble Star Trek. Nothing else does these days.
Considering that Meyer also wrote ST2, and 4 and 6 (and was probably involved with the best parts of 3, iirc), I wouldn't be too worried about him being the chief creative force behind a relaunch.
^You assume he would be given full control.
(In Clancy Brown's voice) I assume too much! One day, I will go too far.
:bd:
{/JLUref}
I had one of these as a kid. Wish I still had it, it's worth a small fortune. :(
(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/92/28/55/922855460cab65de237dc485d68f34e5.jpg)
And....done. I've watched the entire season. Not-easy-to-do. It was said way up thread that the show taken outside of the Star Trek universe isn't bad. I agree with that. However, it IS IN NO WAY Star Trek. Not even close. I could write almost as much as Trumps tweets about what is wrong with the show.
And all of this talk about season 2 making everything fall in line with classic Star Trek? BS. The only way they could do that is if Michael Burnham wakes up next to Suzanne Pleshette and realizes it was all a BAD dream.
Sigh. I'll say it again. Star Trek died June 2, 1999.
I'm impressed you watched it. Trek died well before 99.
That's the thing. It's actually watchable. It's just not Trek.
I still don't get why they stubbornly insist that the show is in the prime timeline.
I'd actually like and accept it a lot more if they just straight admitted it was a reboot. Because it is.
I do like that season two is bringing back the branch of service uniforms though. And the casting of Anson Mount as Pike was inspired.
Nerd!!!
^Hey, set your phasers to fun.
Shake up behind the scenes. (https://trekmovie.com/2018/06/14/star-trek-discovery-showrunners-berg-kurtzman-named-showrunner/) Not surprised.
You're gonna love season 2!
More good news, Mike!
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/alex-kurtzman-inks-25m-deal-extension-cbs-tv-studios-will-expand-star-trek-tv-franchise-1104232 (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/alex-kurtzman-inks-25m-deal-extension-cbs-tv-studios-will-expand-star-trek-tv-franchise-1104232)
QuoteKurtzman will also expand the Star Trek franchise for the small screen, developing new series, miniseries and other content, including animation.
The new deal comes as rumblings about another Star Trek series, featuring Patrick Stewart reprising his role as Star Trek: The Next Generation's Capt. Jean-Luc Picard, have been heating up. Sources say Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman, who left Discovery after season one, are attached to the Stewart-led reboot. CBS TV Studios declined to confirm the Stewart project as sources say a deal is far from completed and may not happen despite the fact that the actor recently teased his potential return to the franchise.
They're going to ruin Picard too! :P
Quote from: mirth on June 19, 2018, 12:55:44 PM
More good news, Mike!
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/alex-kurtzman-inks-25m-deal-extension-cbs-tv-studios-will-expand-star-trek-tv-franchise-1104232 (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/alex-kurtzman-inks-25m-deal-extension-cbs-tv-studios-will-expand-star-trek-tv-franchise-1104232)
QuoteKurtzman will also expand the Star Trek franchise for the small screen, developing new series, miniseries and other content, including animation.
The new deal comes as rumblings about another Star Trek series, featuring Patrick Stewart reprising his role as Star Trek: The Next Generation's Capt. Jean-Luc Picard, have been heating up. Sources say Kurtzman and Akiva Goldsman, who left Discovery after season one, are attached to the Stewart-led reboot. CBS TV Studios declined to confirm the Stewart project as sources say a deal is far from completed and may not happen despite the fact that the actor recently teased his potential return to the franchise.
They're going to ruin Picard too! :P
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fpicard.jpg&hash=1a4b743953c3f3d6a1dcd0c8f867398ea176f02f)(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aarcentral.com%2Fpics%2Fkirk.jpg&hash=80d8b48c55c144dc1675c8e9e1a2bbd3865a256e)
And the death spiral continues...
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/books/star-trek/274343/star-trek-vs-transformers-coming (http://www.denofgeek.com/us/books/star-trek/274343/star-trek-vs-transformers-coming)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn2us.denofgeek.com%2Fsites%2Fdenofgeekus%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Farticle_width%2Fpublic%2F2018%2F06%2Fstar-trek-transformers-crossover-comic.jpeg%3Fitok%3DGvZaM8cZ&hash=56a162b10956e6b0cc4e907928f929a8ac1abe84)
Did i miss something? Haven't been able to see discovery yet
Quote from: Anguille on June 20, 2018, 05:58:04 AM
Did i miss something? Haven't been able to see discovery yet
Sounds like Star Trek is getting a similar treatment as Disney Star Wars.
:hide:
Quote from: bbmike on June 20, 2018, 05:45:14 AM
And the death spiral continues...
http://www.denofgeek.com/us/books/star-trek/274343/star-trek-vs-transformers-coming (http://www.denofgeek.com/us/books/star-trek/274343/star-trek-vs-transformers-coming)
(https://www.grogheads.com/forums/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn2us.denofgeek.com%2Fsites%2Fdenofgeekus%2Ffiles%2Fstyles%2Farticle_width%2Fpublic%2F2018%2F06%2Fstar-trek-transformers-crossover-comic.jpeg%3Fitok%3DGvZaM8cZ&hash=56a162b10956e6b0cc4e907928f929a8ac1abe84)
that's just good comic book cheesy fun
I bet Kirk gets in on with the lady Autobot
Quote from: mirth on June 20, 2018, 08:31:29 AM
I bet Kirk gets in on with the lady Autobot
(https://cdnimg.webstaurantstore.com/images/products/large/105058/841040.jpg)
Quote from: Steelgrave on June 20, 2018, 01:37:38 PM
Quote from: mirth on June 20, 2018, 08:31:29 AM
I bet Kirk gets in on with the lady Autobot
(https://cdnimg.webstaurantstore.com/images/products/large/105058/841040.jpg)
:2funny: :2funny: :2funny:
https://trekmovie.com/2018/06/26/rumor-patrick-stewart-close-to-signing-deal-to-return-to-star-trek/
Quote from: mirth on June 26, 2018, 02:26:43 PM
https://trekmovie.com/2018/06/26/rumor-patrick-stewart-close-to-signing-deal-to-return-to-star-trek/
Patrick's no dummy. Grab the cash while you can!
Quote
Sir Patrick Stewart will reprise his iconic role as Captain Jean-Luc Picard in a new Star Trek series for CBS All Access. Stewart made the announcement today at this year's Star Trek convention in Las Vegas.
https://www.theverge.com/2018/8/4/17651884/patrick-stewart-jean-luc-picard-star-trek-cbs-all-access-new-series
I'm trying to imagine any point to that, and failing.
(...I mean any point aside from a desperate cash grab.)
Meanwhile, hey, what about that new Season 2 trailer which looks like Star Trek (tm) is now trying to be more like the Orville, a fun affectionate parody of Star Trek which, being affectionate, ended up being a lot more like Star Trek than the current official Star Trek?
Insert the 'inception' bwahm here...
Star Trek, still dead since June 2, 1999.
I've heard that the Picard series will not be Starfleet-centric.
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 05, 2018, 02:23:01 PM
I've heard that the Picard series will not be Starfleet-centric.
...I understand what those words mean separately, but when they're put together like that I can't make sense of them. So it's Picard in retirement on the grape farm, and then he gets into adventures solving mysteries and family problems?
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 06, 2018, 07:50:09 AM
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 05, 2018, 02:23:01 PM
I've heard that the Picard series will not be Starfleet-centric.
...I understand what those words mean separately, but when they're put together like that I can't make sense of them. So it's Picard in retirement on the grape farm, and then he gets into adventures solving mysteries and family problems?
I heard he's going to be living in a Fla retirement community with four women.
"Make it So Number One"!
Quote from: mirth on August 06, 2018, 08:15:13 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 06, 2018, 07:50:09 AM
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 05, 2018, 02:23:01 PM
I've heard that the Picard series will not be Starfleet-centric.
...I understand what those words mean separately, but when they're put together like that I can't make sense of them. So it's Picard in retirement on the grape farm, and then he gets into adventures solving mysteries and family problems?
I heard he's going to be living in a Fla retirement community with four women.
Is one Betty White.
Quote from: OJsDad on August 06, 2018, 10:30:54 AM
Quote from: mirth on August 06, 2018, 08:15:13 AM
Quote from: JasonPratt on August 06, 2018, 07:50:09 AM
Quote from: Staggerwing on August 05, 2018, 02:23:01 PM
I've heard that the Picard series will not be Starfleet-centric.
...I understand what those words mean separately, but when they're put together like that I can't make sense of them. So it's Picard in retirement on the grape farm, and then he gets into adventures solving mysteries and family problems?
I heard he's going to be living in a Fla retirement community with four women.
Is one Betty White.
yes
And is the landlord a Horta named Mr. Roper?
Don't cross the streams
Photon Shuffleboard?
...oh. It's apparently going to be much worse than I (couldn't have) imagined.
Insider gossip the past couple of days suggests that STD will flip over decisively to the Kelvin timeline (i.e. the reboot movies, now also known as the Bad Robot Trekverse), and that the Picard series will be set there, too. Presumably this is meant to solve continuity difficulties by playing in a milieu with some fan appeal already but which has much more flexibility about what can happen. So in Picard's new series, Vulcan and Romulus have both been destroyed, for example.
The Kelvin timeline has fan appeal?
It's hard to decide which franchise is the bigger trainwreck at this point - Star Trek or Star Wars?
Quote from: mirth on August 08, 2018, 03:15:08 PM
The Kelvin timeline has fan appeal?
lol'd!
Well, y'know, relatively. The films make money.
Quote from: mirth on August 08, 2018, 03:16:40 PM
It's hard to decide which franchise is the bigger trainwreck at this point - Star Trek or Star Wars?
Both trains are being driven by the same engineer.
Look at it this way. We'll be able to tell our grandkids that we lived way back when both series were actually great. You know, before a giant meteor wiped them and the dinosaurs out. That should scare the little shits straight. :bd:
A detailed mini-doc (about 1/2 hour) on the corporate strategies involved in the creation and management of Star Trek in the "Kelvin" age.
Interesting, thanks for posting! O0
And...
It wasn't a 'battle of rights' that killed the Kelvin garbage.
And...
There is nothing remotely similar to TOS in Trek Wars: Beyond.
So, how does this fit with the CBS Discovery show?
As we know, word (or at least strong rumor) has surfaced that the show will now be solidly in the rebooted Kelvin timeline -- although this seems to make no sense, because storywise the timelines diverge at a later point than where the series is.
But of course storyline consistency has never been the point. This isn't about coherent creativity, it's about what the investors think is the most efficient way to make the largest profit. The largest profit right now still comes from the films, so plans for the films, nebulous though those are, necessarily affect plans for the show.
Right now, the plans for the film include continuing the Kelvin timeline -- not for its story's sake but for the draw of large-name actors -- and a Quentin Tarantino Trek 5, again for the noteriety of a big-name director, who insists on making an R-rated Trek film. Which, at the time of the show's (apparent) commitment to the Kelvin continuity, was also going to be in the Kelvin continuity.
Consequently, we have a testbed R-rated Trek show going on CBS, which although a seriously expensive show by TV standards is less of a money risk than a big-budget tentpole film. But the Kelvin continuity is in trouble if the investors don't sign on, which producers could predict would be problematic given the new corporate strategy of making less expensive films faster: the salaries would be renegotiated down, since the contracts had expired after the first 3 films (and Hemsworth wasn't on contract anyway).
So now the R-rated Trek show (which will doubtless keep its rating thanks to attempts to meet Orville popularity standards) gets zig-zagged to the Kelvin timeline, even though CBS per se would rather keep it The Original Series (....more or.....less.... ;) ) for the marketing rights. Because both corporate partners need some way to keep investor interest in the Kelvin continuity even though Pine and Hemsworth have backed out of negotiations.
phew.
The 'good' news is that all this finagling means Tarantino's Trek will probably be a reboot, or rather the Discovery series will (continue to) be an R-rated pure continuity reboot within which Tarantino can work rather than be hampered by the disintegrating Kelvin continuity chained to his effort.
Just finished watching the show. Not having netflix and the like, i had to buy the dvds. Like many, i am a big Star Trek fan. My favorites remain the TOS, Next Generation and DS9. I never finished Enterprise though (the only one).
Overall, i do like the new series but didn't like the ending with the Mirror Universe. Imho, Burnham should have taken Lorca with her as she knew him best (they did fight together for many months against the Klingons) while she had no idea what the Emperor was like (except for massmurdering people, including the Klingons). Don't think the twist with Lorca and Tyler was good anyway, especially Lorca as i think he was a good captain and i feel the decision to change his story came late in the season as at least he was a very good captain for the first 1/2 of the season. The death of the doctor was also a bad decision imho.
What i've seen from season 2 looks interesting...i will have to keep away from this thread until i've seen Season 2 on dvd. ;)