IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad Discussion

Started by Grim.Reaper, December 28, 2013, 06:51:32 PM

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Yskonyn

I fully agree with trying out CLoD again if you have not done so after the Team Fusion patches have been released.
It's a gorgeous looking, realistic feeling and great performing sim nowadays which certainly deserves the look of any (WW2) flight sim enthousiast!
The multiplayer community seems to have become more active now too and word seems to spread that the sim is pretty good now and more people are starting to take another look.

BoS is a promising project, but it has a serious contender in DCS WW2. Especially since many of the old Maddox crew is over there now.
BoS is co developed by the guys from Rise of Flight so that certainly gives them a pretty good rep too. Its interesting to follow both projects, but no way I am going to pay just under 100 dollars to get on board, no matter the combat flight sim enthousiast that I am.

DCS A-10C, Falcon BMS and CLoD keep me more than satisfied at the moment.
"Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing.
However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore."

Grim.Reaper

Quote from: Yskonyn on December 29, 2013, 03:22:58 AM
I fully agree with trying out CLoD again if you have not done so after the Team Fusion patches have been released.
It's a gorgeous looking, realistic feeling and great performing sim nowadays which certainly deserves the look of any (WW2) flight sim enthousiast!
The multiplayer community seems to have become more active now too and word seems to spread that the sim is pretty good now and more people are starting to take another look.

BoS is a promising project, but it has a serious contender in DCS WW2. Especially since many of the old Maddox crew is over there now.
BoS is co developed by the guys from Rise of Flight so that certainly gives them a pretty good rep too. Its interesting to follow both projects, but no way I am going to pay just under 100 dollars to get on board, no matter the combat flight sim enthousiast that I am.

DCS A-10C, Falcon BMS and CLoD keep me more than satisfied at the moment.

Will DCS WW2 have a campaign and be in a realistic setting?

Grim.Reaper

Quote from: JudgeDredd on December 29, 2013, 02:37:45 AM
Great vid.

I thought CLoD looked great out the bag...but that takes it to another level!

It does look nice....you have to install patch 3 and 3.1, before you can install the new 4.0 patch.  Last night I got the 3. and 3.1 patch loaded and hopefully will get the 4.0 patch loaded today.

Within the game,  I know you can remap the controls to the joystick, but I didn't see a spot where you could calibrate the joystick (i.e. sensitivity, deadzone, etc.), is there a place within the game to do that?   Other games seem to always have those options somewhere.  With a few of my flights yesterday, things seemed very jumpy.

Father Ted

I'll add my tuppence as someone has plopped down sixty quid for this.  I did it in the full knowledge that I was not buying a game in the first instance, so I'm not disappointed that there's nothing really to do yet.

The CloD comparison is not really valid at the moment as that was released as a finished game, and, in my experience, did not actually work properly, let alone deliver a gaming /sim experience.  BoS at pre-Alpha does actually allow me to fly around and enjoy the (IMO) lovely visual effects.

Anyone looking to jump into to a fullly-formed WW2 game should get CloD:  TF have fixed a lot of it and it is dirt cheap.

The naming protocol of the IL2 games is also causing some confusion it would seem.  IL2 BoS is based on the RoF engine which is a different piece of software to that used by IL2:CloD and is being developed by a combination of 777 and 1C, not just 1C( the people who did CloD - the prime movers of which are now doing DCS WW2).  It therefore has none of the issues that IL2:CloD had/has in terms of system requirements and so on.  It will have its own issues, as RoF does, but that's another story.  If you want to find out what they are (whether BoS will suit you and your system) you can D/L RoF for free and try it out.

RoF took some  ironing out (and that was done by 777) but now that engine works pretty well, so by extension BoS works almost out of the box in terms of graphics.

Those want to play flightsims will have to expect that they're going to cost a lot of money.  A hundred bucks seems steep, but that gets you 8 planes eventually (I think).  In comparison DCS Mustang is about $25 now on Steam, so their planes are twice as much.  WT is FTP but people spend hundreds of dollars to keep up with the opposition rather than grind.

Silent Disapproval Robot

Go into "Controls Options", click the "Axes" tab, and then highlight the controller axis you would like to adjust.  You should see some sliders at the bottom of the page for sensitivity and top and bottom end dead zones.  (I think, I'm going from memory as I'm stuck at work still.)


Grim.Reaper

Quote from: Silent Disapproval Robot on December 29, 2013, 08:08:40 AM
Go into "Controls Options", click the "Axes" tab, and then highlight the controller axis you would like to adjust.  You should see some sliders at the bottom of the page for sensitivity and top and bottom end dead zones.  (I think, I'm going from memory as I'm stuck at work still.)

Thank you, I will take a look.

Yskonyn

Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 29, 2013, 07:19:23 AM
Quote from: Yskonyn on December 29, 2013, 03:22:58 AM
I fully agree with trying out CLoD again if you have not done so after the Team Fusion patches have been released.
It's a gorgeous looking, realistic feeling and great performing sim nowadays which certainly deserves the look of any (WW2) flight sim enthousiast!
The multiplayer community seems to have become more active now too and word seems to spread that the sim is pretty good now and more people are starting to take another look.

BoS is a promising project, but it has a serious contender in DCS WW2. Especially since many of the old Maddox crew is over there now.
BoS is co developed by the guys from Rise of Flight so that certainly gives them a pretty good rep too. Its interesting to follow both projects, but no way I am going to pay just under 100 dollars to get on board, no matter the combat flight sim enthousiast that I am.

DCS A-10C, Falcon BMS and CLoD keep me more than satisfied at the moment.

Will DCS WW2 have a campaign and be in a realistic setting?

Yes and yes, but to what extent we do not know yet.
But as it will be a DCS brandend title it will mean they will aim for a realistic sim. Not an arcade one. Though you can scale it to be more arcade if you want, in the options.
The DCS crew have been talking about a Dynamic Campaign system. Wether they mean a 3rd party one or one that is being developed in house is not known. Even less if this is a system for all products or just for DCS World or even only for DCS WW2.
It's speculation at this point, but I can give you a safe bet on it including the more traditional form of linked missions forming a campaign,just like their other products.

Thing is: if you regard the Oleg Maddox crew as the hotshots in the sim scène then perhaps you need to keep a look at DCS:WW2 and not get confused about IL2 Stalingrad's name.
Most of the old IL2 crew is not working on that title.
"Pilots do not get paid for what they do daily, but they get paid for what they are capable of doing.
However, if pilots would need to do daily what they are capable of doing, nobody would dare to fly anymore."

Grim.Reaper

Quote from: Yskonyn on December 29, 2013, 08:19:35 AM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 29, 2013, 07:19:23 AM
Quote from: Yskonyn on December 29, 2013, 03:22:58 AM
I fully agree with trying out CLoD again if you have not done so after the Team Fusion patches have been released.
It's a gorgeous looking, realistic feeling and great performing sim nowadays which certainly deserves the look of any (WW2) flight sim enthousiast!
The multiplayer community seems to have become more active now too and word seems to spread that the sim is pretty good now and more people are starting to take another look.

BoS is a promising project, but it has a serious contender in DCS WW2. Especially since many of the old Maddox crew is over there now.
BoS is co developed by the guys from Rise of Flight so that certainly gives them a pretty good rep too. Its interesting to follow both projects, but no way I am going to pay just under 100 dollars to get on board, no matter the combat flight sim enthousiast that I am.

DCS A-10C, Falcon BMS and CLoD keep me more than satisfied at the moment.

Will DCS WW2 have a campaign and be in a realistic setting?

Yes and yes, but to what extent we do not know yet.
But as it will be a DCS brandend title it will mean they will aim for a realistic sim. Not an arcade one. Though you can scale it to be more arcade if you want, in the options.
The DCS crew have been talking about a Dynamic Campaign system. Wether they mean a 3rd party one or one that is being developed in house is not known. Even less if this is a system for all products or just for DCS World or even only for DCS WW2.
It's speculation at this point, but I can give you a safe bet on it including the more traditional form of linked missions forming a campaign,just like their other products.

Thing is: if you regard the Oleg Maddox crew as the hotshots in the sim scène then perhaps you need to keep a look at DCS:WW2 and not get confused about IL2 Stalingrad's name.
Most of the old IL2 crew is not working on that title.

I am actually not a flight sim expert and have no loyalties to any given team:)  I just want the best flight experience, which for me means the following:

-  I like it to be realistic in the sense the aircraft can't do super things or things they would never do in real life, BUT I want to be able to use simplistic controls.  I don't want to trim, blip, mix fuel, etc.  I want to have a wide range of options to make it easier or harder for me based on my mood that day:)

-  A good campaign, prefer dynamic but I know that is not likely in most games today.

-  There is nothing like shooting down other planes or hitting ground targets and getting that awesome feeling when you do it.....BUT in most flight sim games today, I have a hard time doing that.  Need to make sure the game provides options (i.e. ai difficulty settings) where newbies like myself can share in that joyful feeling.  Too many times nowadays I mostly fly around without being able to hit a darn thing. I know, its me, but still I want to have fun too:)

- An immersive feeling.....Wings Over Flanders Fields is my best measure of what I mean with this...just gives a feeling of "being part of something"

-  A good base of aircraft included with the game.....I realize it seems these flight sims are moving to a DLC model where you only get a handful with the game and then everything is a purchase, but for me that is a little bit of a turn off.  I would rather pay a little higher price at the start to get everything versus pay $5-$10 for every future plan I might want and for eye-candy.  Don't think I will be in luck with this, since even WOFF is going down the add-on route.

- Doesn't have to have the latest and greatest graphics, just functional.  Prefer older graphics if it provides a smoother experience.

When I bought WOFF, I also had to buy Combat Flight Simulator 3.....I did not install that.....but thinking maybe I will to see what kind of fun it might offer....does anyone have experience with CFS3 and is it worth even trying to play?  I know the graphics will be outdated, but that is my least concern.

Silent Disapproval Robot

Here's a blurb from the IL2: Battle of Stalingrad forums:



Abbreviations

•BoS - Battle of Stalingrad
•CloD - Cliffs of Dover
•RoF - Rise of Flight


BATTLE OF STALINGRADPeople and Team

•Jason Williams is the head, Albert Zhiltcov (LOFT) is the producer.
•Developed by the new "1C Game Studios".
•1C Game Studios is made of 777 team combined with some of the old 1C Maddox team.
•777 as a brand and entity is not disbanded and will continue to be used (for RoF).
•Current team is a few dozen people give or take contractors.
•Luthier (Ilya Shevchenko) is not part of the project.
•BlackSix is part of the new team.
•1C is a "partner" (publisher?).
•Ubisoft is not involved. 

Business and Plan

•Initial client release is slated for early 2014.
•Business model will have some similar aspects with RoF, but it will not be identical.
•Business model will be a hybrid between RoF and the old IL-2 [1946].
•Free-to-play client (as with RoF) will not be available.
•Free demo is planned.
•New content added over time after initial launch (paid).
•New theaters and planes are planned for the future if everything goes to plan.
•Private project, no government/state is involved with financing. 

General

•Not a CloD clone sequel, a brand new game.
•Not an arcade game, a simulator.
•Only the critical systems will be modeled: propeller pitch, boost, altitude control, different mechanization, weapons etc.
•Not a study/training sim (think FSX, DCS), but a combat simulator.
•Would like to return to the original IL-2 [1946] idea.
•Will include both multi-player and single-player gameplay options.
•For SP: QMB, User Missions and a Historical Campaign.
•No clickable cockpits planned.
•Cockpit switches and toggles will be animated.
•Cockpit details will not be modeled to CloD level.
•Engines will operate in a realistic manner as they do in RoF.
•AI will be updated for the WW2 combat.
•AI will fly with the same flight model as the player (no simplifications).
•AI will be able to make decisions when to return to base (due to damage/fuel/ammo/etc).
•Multiple AI difficulty levels (novice, ace, etc).
•No pilot body in cockpit view (possible feature for the future/after release).
•Will have an achievement/award system.
•Aircraft "weathering" option/slider (as in CloD) will not be available.
•Realistic sound travel time (sound waves will be simulated).
•Will be able to open (and eject) the canopy (with impact on aerodynamics)
•Machine gun synchronizers will be accurately modeled (as in RoF).
•Wake turbulence will be modeled.
•Compressibility of air will be modelled.
•Aircraft skins according to selected regiment (but will be able to unlock additional ones by playing Historical Campaign). 

Aircraft

•Ten aircraft planned for launch:
•LaGG-3 (series 29, VK105PF engine)
•Bf 109 F-4
•Yak-1 (M-105PF engine)
•Bf 109 G-2
•IL-2 (1942 year model, single-seat, AM-38 engine, VYa-23 cannons)
•Ju 87 D-3
•Pe-2  (series 87 and 110)
•He 111 H-6
•La-5 (with premium pre-order or separate purchase)
•Fw-190 A-3 (with premium pre-order or separate purchase)
•Flight model will be much more accurate and harder (compared to CloD).
•3D models will be more accurate than RoF or CloD (poly count wise).
•Aircraft will not be balanced (for "game" reasons) and built/modeled as they were.


Field Modifications

•Will have un-lockable (and free) field modifications (5 for each aircraft).
•Field modifications will be realistically modeled (with advantages and disadvantages).
•Examples: two-seater IL-2, drop tanks, under-wing gun pods, different bombs, rockets or even removing head armor plate for improved visibility. 

Damage Model

•Damage model has (already) been improved (from RoF point of view).
•Will have a cockpit damage model.
•Exploding wing ammunition magazines are part of the damage model.
•Will be able to damage other aircraft with your propeller alone.
•Falling parts (from other aircraft) can damage your aircraft.
•Bomb blasts can damage nearby aircraft. 

Radio, Communication and Navigation

•You will be able to issue radio commands to AI (by hearing your own duplicated radio command voice and AI response).
•Ground forces will communicate with you over the radio.
•Airfield services also become more sociable (compared to IL-2 [1946]).
•Different radio frequencies (will be able to listed to enemy radio under certain conditions).
•Airfield maintenance and supply service and ground units will use flares.
•Radio navigation (beacons/AM stations) not planned for initial release.
•No built-in VOIP (voice chat).
•Navigational lights will be modeled. 

Ground Interaction

•Infantry will not be modeled.
•Will not be able to leave the plane and control the pilot.
•Ground search lights and aircraft landing lights will be implemented.
•Refuel, repair and ammo replenishment at airfields will not be available at launch (planned for the future).
•More than 30 ground vehicles.
•More than 500 static objects. 

Map

•The map will be geographically accurate.
•The snowy battlefield around Stalingrad will be believable.
•Some terrain detail/visual improvements planned (from RoF point of view).
•Map length from west to east is 360 km (Tatsinskaya - Stupino / Kapustin Yar).
•Map height from north to south is 230 km (Kletskaya - Kotelnikovo).
•Projected map area.
•Other small MP online maps are planned for release (as with lake map in RoF).
•Dynamic day/night cycle.
•All major historical airfields will be present. 

Historical Campaign (Single-player)

•Historical single-player campaign will require internet connection.
•Covering the time period of the Battle of Stalingrad.
•Will start with "Operation Uranus" (Soviet counterattack) and will finish with liberation of Stalingrad.
•Campaign will be split in 5 main phases of the Battle of Stalingrad.
•Phases are unique in regards of disposition of troops, defensive lines, weather conditions, aircraft in theater and squadrons taking part in the action.
•New campaign phases will be unlocked by completing mission objectives.
•Missions will be generated on the server for the selected campaign phase.
•Will be able to change sides before every mission.
•Will have to choose (or change) regiment when joining a new campaign phase.
•Every regiment has a home base and specific aircraft in service.
•Fighter, ground attack or bomber mission types (depending on your aircraft).
•Mission types will differ with each campaign phase (e.g. more Luftwaffe supply missions during the aerial bridge period).
•Weather is taken into account for each campaign phase.
•Will have an optional "quick" mission option (skipping take-offs/landings). 

User Missions & Quick Battles (Single-player)

•Will not require internet connection and will not affect global statistics.
•Quick battles are created with QMB (quick mission builder).
•Similar quick battle options as in RoF.
•User missions are created with FMB (full mission builder/editor).
•Both these modes allow players to use user-made aircraft skins. 

Multi-player

•Will have dedicated server support (Windows only).
•No official servers (only player/third-party hosted).
•Up to 100 players per server.
•Multi-crew aircraft with full multiplayer support.
•Capture-the-flag (CTF, as in RoF) online game mode will not be available in BoS.
•Realism settings will be server-side and forced on players by the host.
•Two server types based on whether global statistics are enabled or not.
•Servers with global statistics disabled will have unlocked/unrestricted skins.

Technical

•Will use Digital Nature (Rise of Flight) engine.
•Engine will be DirectX 9 based on launch.
•If this product is a success - DirectX 11 support in the future.
•Windows 8 will be supported.
•Work will be done to make the engine ready for WWII aircraft.
•TrackIR will be supported.
•Oculus Rift support is confirmed.
•FreeTrack will be supported.
•Steam version is unlikely.
•Multi-core support will be the same as in RoF (best with 4-core CPU).
•External physical instrument support (as IL-2 DeviceLink) will not be available at launch.
•Multi-monitor setups will be supported.
•Force-feedback will be supported (and "better than previous games").
•Stereoscopic 3D support is confirmed.
•SLI/CrossFire will be supported.
•Will not use GPGPU (not applicable and no server-side option).
•The terrain will be bump-mapped.
•Will have dynamic cockpit shadows.
•The sound will be designed for stereo (but will work fine with multi-channel output).
•Visibility range is 40km. 

Mods, Skins and Editor

•Mission Editor will be similar to RoF.
•No third-party planes or API planned.
•Other types of mods will be supported (as with "mods on" in RoF).
•Official Skin Packs will be used (as in RoF).
•User skinning will be supported with provided templates.
•Map Editor as a tool will not be available (however theoretically it will be possible to create new maps without an editor). 

Other

•BoS content will not merge with (or install over) Cliffs of Dover as stated before by former Maddox team.
•Some of the models and textures might be re-used from CloD.
•RoF (engine) might benefit from the work done on Battle of Stalingrad.
•The Channel Map for RoF will not be available in BoS.
•The team inherited from 1C all materials, documents and studies for the Battle of Stalingrad and the Eastern Front.

Grim.Reaper

Thanks for posting SDR, couple of initial observations

- Flight model will be much more accurate and harder (compared to CloD).

Ouch, just what I need something even harder to control:)  Hopefully, the different settings will allow for it to be easier for those that need it.

- Historical single-player campaign will require internet connection.

Very surprised about this one.....since they ended up making offline an option for ROF (except when you needed to upload stats)...wonder what their thinking here in taking things backwards.

MengJiao

Quote from: sandman2575 on December 28, 2013, 08:02:26 PM
Quote from: Grim.Reaper on December 28, 2013, 07:28:49 PM
Sandman,

Not to completely go off-topic, but can you tell me what TeamFusion has to offer that makes CLOD a better game now?  I have heard some speak of it, but haven't really looked into it yet.

Hey Grim -- I think the short answer is, TeamFusion did as modders what 1C should have done as developers -- they've turned CLoD into a fully realized game.  Not a perfect game, of course, but one that certainly lives up to expectations of what people thought Cliffs of Dover would be -- a great ww2 flight sim.

Here's some propaganda about the most recent patch   ;) -- lots of emphasis on graphics enhancements, but the TF team has done a huge amount if work improving flight modeling and other important stuff 'under the hood'.

http://vimeo.com/77082835


All this is just to say, if you're looking forward to Battle of Stalingrad, as I am, you might want to give CLoD another chance, esp as you can pick it up relatively cheap nowadays.

   I agree.  What I'm doing is playing CLOD and ROF until BOS comes out.  This is based partly on the principle that by the time a sim comes out with a good Malta campaign, I've already (sadly) moved on to something else.

   AND some scary flight models of those Russian planes should be pretty interesting.

sandman2575

Yeah, I've been playing pretty much nothing but CLoD and RoF of late.  Sometimes hard to pick which to play, actually -- I really love what both these games have to offer.

I picked up DCS P-51 on the Steam sale, along with A-10C, both for ridiculously cheap during a 'Flash Sale', $14 a pop   ;D. Haven't even had a chance to install them yet -- just too much flight sim goodness right now.  Can't wait for DCS WW2...

Skoop

I actually think the historical campaign sounds cool the way the above post laid it out.  I think the online server connection is how they control the persistent battlefield effects they might have planned.  I'm just waiting on more SP campaign details before I hit the purchase button for this one.  I probably will end up buying the non premium version that only has 6 aircraft on release rather than commit a hundred now and hope for the best.

MengJiao

Quote from: sandman2575 on December 29, 2013, 12:27:05 PM
Yeah, I've been playing pretty much nothing but CLoD and RoF of late.  Sometimes hard to pick which to play, actually -- I really love what both these games have to offer.

I picked up DCS P-51 on the Steam sale, along with A-10C, both for ridiculously cheap during a 'Flash Sale', $14 a pop   ;D. Haven't even had a chance to install them yet -- just too much flight sim goodness right now.  Can't wait for DCS WW2...

  I have some DCS stuff (Base, Su-25 and Combined Arms).  I think I actually have slightly more fun in DCS these days because the editor is pretty good and DCS world has more potential depth than either CLOD or RoF.  I guess by depth I mean more things going on (RADAR, missiles, helicopters etc.).  On the other hand DCS takes slightly more mental preparation for me than CLOD or RoF -- mostly because I've been playing RoF for years and CLOD for many months more than DCS.

jomni

Quote from: Yskonyn on December 29, 2013, 03:22:58 AM
BoS is a promising project, but it has a serious contender in DCS WW2. Especially since many of the old Maddox crew is over there now.

Maddox is overrated.