School shooting in Florida

Started by OJsDad, February 14, 2018, 03:30:50 PM

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Gusington

Four deputies? Haven't heard that yet.

There was a lot of info on Cruz that both the local sheriff and the FBI had as well as social services and the people charged with taking care of him.

How he was ever able to acquire firearms is beyond me.


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Arctic Blast

Quote from: Gusington on February 23, 2018, 11:02:12 PM
Four deputies? Haven't heard that yet.

There was a lot of info on Cruz that both the local sheriff and the FBI had as well as social services and the people charged with taking care of him.

How he was ever able to acquire firearms is beyond me.

Yeah, that's the problem part.

MikeGER

#47
Quote from: Arctic Blast on February 23, 2018, 10:25:50 PM
^^There are now some reports that there were FOUR deputies who wouldn't go in.

I can somewhat understand one, since a cop is typically not going to be trained to just wade in to a situation on his own that he doesn't know the extent of. But FOUR? If that's true, it's utterly indefensible.

depends on the SOP ordered?

a decade or more ago German police changed SOP after a school shooting, IIRC it was the Erfurt event
   
before generic patrol car cops first at the scene had order to wait for specialist cops  (doesn't had to be full blown SWAT unit but cops with a special training and a certain number of those before going in)
Now the SOP is: the first patrol car cops (usually 2 officers) at the scene go in immediately and 'aggressive' 
...even so those cops only get a 30 hours of special training (including hand to hand) with evaluation a year, included are only 6h on the shooting range (of course a high tech range police shooting cinema with situations unfolding)   
in Germany Police is a federal state thing, so numbers may wary a bit from state to state           

bayonetbrant

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Nefaro

#49
A shocking expose on the Broward County Sheriff's Dept and school system, and how their backroom deals to pad numbers have affected their behavior:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/966854507744374784.html

Quote
1.  <..> People don't understand how Broward County School Sheriff Officers operate. I'll explain.

2. I spent about 18 months in 2012, 2013 and 2014 investigating Broward and Miami-Dade school policies and how those policies transfer to law enforcement practices.

3. My interest was initially accidental. I discovered an untold story of massive scale and consequence as a result of initial research into Trayvon Martin and his High School life.

4. What I stumbled upon was a Broward County law enforcement system in a state of conflict. The Broward County School Board and District Superintendent, entered into a political agreement with Broward County Law enforcement officials to stop arresting students for crimes.

5. The motive was simple. The school system administrators wanted to "improve their statistics" and gain state and federal grant money for improvements therein.

6. So police officials, the very highest officials of law enforcement (Sheriff and Police Chiefs), entered into a plan.

(CONTINUED..)


Lots of documents and info at the link.

Bureaucrats..  ::)  :knuppel2:


mirth

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Silent Disapproval Robot

Cheque cashes the same whether you go in or not.

OJsDad

Doesn't being in a building negate a lot of the advantages that an AR-15 has over a pistol. 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/fla-shooting-survivor-cops-dont-want-to-face-down-ar-15s/ar-BBJxlH6?li=BBmkt5R&ocid=spartanntp

From The Hill

QuoteA student at the Parkland, Fla. high school where 17 people were killed in a mass shooting last week told MSNBC on Saturday that police officers should not be judged for not wanting to face down an attacked armed with an AR-15 when armed with handguns.

In an interview on MSNBC, student David Hogg defended Scot Peterson, the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School school resource officer and Broward County Sheriff's deputy accused by President Trump and local law enforcement of not entering the building during the shooting.

Three other officers from the same department were also reported by CNN to have arrived on scene and taken cover behind their vehicles before deputies from a neighboring department arrived.

"He just like every other police officer out there at heart is a good person. He didn't take action in this event, and I can't explain why...there are no words to explain why he wouldn't take action to take out this individual, but I think it's a good example of if he didn't take action and four others didn't, I mean, who does?" Hogg said.

"Who wants to go down the barrel of an AR-15, even with a glock? And I know that's what these police officers are supposed to do, but they're people too," he added.

Peterson has been the subject of intense criticism in the days following last Wednesday's shooting, after Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel told reporters at a press conference this week that Peterson was outside the building but on campus for the duration of the attack, but "didn't go in."

"Scot Peterson was absolutely on campus through this entire event. He was armed. He was in uniform," Israel said at a press conference.

"After seeing video, witness statements and Scot Peterson's very own statement, I decided this morning to suspend [him] without pay pending an internal investigation," he continued. "We're not going to disclose the video at this time, and we may never disclose the video, depending on the prosecution and the criminal case," Israel said. "But what I saw was a deputy arrive at the west side of building 12, take up a position - and he never went in."

Peterson's alleged conduct was noted by Trump on Friday, who told reporters that the officer didn't have the "courage" to confront the shooter.

"When it came time to get in there and do something, he didn't have the courage or something happened, but he certainly did a poor job.

There's no question about that," Trump said of Peterson.

"He didn't turn out to be too good, I'll tell you that. Turned out to be not good, not a credit to law enforcement, that I can tell you," he added.
'Here at NASA we all pee the same color.'  Al Harrison from the movie Hidden Figures.

MikeGER

#53
Quote from: OJsDad on February 24, 2018, 10:55:25 PM
Doesn't being in a building negate a lot of the advantages that an AR-15 has over a pistol. 

depend on the building in question
... if it has long halls, a big atrium, wide open stair cases and areas of approach with no cover its bad, and the rifle may have some aiming stuff mounted in addition.

it also depends on the opponent.
i would not like to go against a battle hardend Iraq/Stan vet, who had seen it all... in opposition to a student who just got the rifle (in case of Germany from that obscure Darknet) and all his falls 'tactical' knowledge from Call of Duty, some paintball and a little softair play... difference between cover and concealment is a treachery bitch in RL

   
               

Father Ted


bayonetbrant

Quote from: Father Ted on February 25, 2018, 06:18:16 PM
This thing wouldn't have happened if there'd been someone trained in the use of firearms onsite to protect the students.

There was.  The SRO was trained, armed, and on-site.  He did nothing.
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"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Staggerwing

I don't think it's an issue of basic firearms training or not, I think that the cop in question let his adverse situation training skills atrophy during the years he was a school resource officer. Day-in and day-out he was probably doing nothing more than greeting kids and giving talks with the occasional hallway fight to break up. When the moment came he locked up in confusion and doubt.

This is my main concern with arming teachers. To be effective in a crisis they would need to constantly challenge their own fight-or-flight instincts through some kind of semi-monthly simulation training similar to what is offered to soldiers and cops on the beat- training that the school officer had also probably neglected. If we have armed teachers they need to be more like air marshals than regular educators who happen to be armed.
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Gusington



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We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

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OJsDad

Quote from: Staggerwing on February 25, 2018, 06:47:31 PM
I don't think it's an issue of basic firearms training or not, I think that the cop in question let his adverse situation training skills atrophy during the years he was a school resource officer. Day-in and day-out he was probably doing nothing more than greeting kids and giving talks with the occasional hallway fight to break up. When the moment came he locked up in confusion and doubt.

This is my main concern with arming teachers. To be effective in a crisis they would need to constantly challenge their own fight-or-flight instincts through some kind of semi-monthly simulation training similar to what is offered to soldiers and cops on the beat- training that the school officer had also probably neglected. If we have armed teachers they need to be more like air marshals than regular educators who happen to be armed.

There's a difference between being a teacher inside a classroom with a gun man coming to get you versus a cop that's outside deciding not to go in.  If that teacher has a gun, whether they've gone through all of the training you describe, they're going to use that gun. 

Also, at the end of the day, people are relying on the police to be there when they are needed.  We all know that cops cannot be everywhere all the time, but when they are, we expect them to put them selves in harms way to protect the people they swore to protect.  Not hide outside and retire to collect their retirement check.
'Here at NASA we all pee the same color.'  Al Harrison from the movie Hidden Figures.

Gusington

^There's no way to know if any of what you said is true until the moment occurs.


слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd