Steel Division 1944 (by wargame red dragon devs) in game trailer and unit stream

Started by Destraex, March 29, 2017, 07:05:10 PM

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JasonPratt

Well, no deck can really do everything. And a deck that works well at destruction won't necessarily work well at conquest. Every division has enough options to try doing different things with them, though, even though every division has limitations as to what can be feasibly tried. There's no point in the Luftlanders ever trying for a solid panzer build, for example. But that wasn't what their division was about anyway.

So, keeping in mind it's totally ahistorical for a division to seriously attempt air control during Normandy, or even artillery superiority, here's my Quality Luftlander deck.



The Luftlanders, along with the 3rd Fallschimjagers (the remnants of the Green Devils), are the only two German divisions that have a real chance at achieving air dominance. So, at the bottom of that screen, you can see that I've filled all my air slots.

Note that each division has an absolute total of "stacks", and they aren't all the same. In the upper right, under my dropdown menu for selecting my divisional decks, where it reads "activations", I've got 38 (out of 38) slots. Other divisions will have 40 or maybe 28 or whatever. This total is fixed per division; so are the total number of stacks you can devote to the categories per division. I've got (and I'm using) 7 air stack slots, at the bottom; I'm not sure any division has more available for air power. Moreover, I've got a good selection of "stack" options for quality air power, and that's what I've chosen. These don't cost anything to "buy" when setting up a division, but naturally the higher cost items come out slower in the game as your income tallies every minute.

For Phase A air, I chose to go for close air support, so I've got three stacks of that; two stacks of M109s with rocket tubes (two planes each, thus the "x2"), and a flying tank gun! I could have loaded up all my air power with Phase A picks, including choices for dogfighters, but naturally the stronger picks tend to show up in later phases and I wanted to save some slots for those. I could have substituted the one tank-gun plane with a stack of multiple dogfighters, though. Or a fairly large stack of "Storchs", which I have occasionally wished I had since if a plane isn't a dedicated scout it can't see down very well.

For Phase B I wanted to protect my ground assets and knock out dogfighters, so I picked two stacks of two veteran 109 dogfighters, plus a stack of another two ME129 flying tank guns. The last slot I picked for a single elite dogfighter in Phase C, although I couldn't get him in a FW.

This is a flexible air power build, but if I went harder with anti-air on the ground I might have gotten rid of the dogfighters and picked up more ground pounders (or spotters).

Moving up one notch to artillery, the Luftlanders only have 5 slots here, but they've got numerous decent arty picks. I chose none in Phase A, since one part of my overall plan is to set up an arty park or two, screened by plenty of elite infantry for mutual reinforcement; thus the infantry go out to secure positions in Phase A. In Phase B I can lead out with less expensive but smaller (but veteran!) Feldkannone 39s, which not only have a good soft damage (not shown here) but quite decent damage against hard targets. (That's the little yellow 11 in the upper right corner.) Everything after that is Feldhowitzer 396s for FREAKING DAYS!  :bd: They aren't the absolute best arty possible, even strictly for the Luftlanders (that would be a PanzerLorraine), but they're the best I can get that will damage armor. In a ballistic arc. If tanks roll up to spit at my infantry in the trees, they will live briefly to regret it.  L:-)

Speaking of infantry, the Luftlanders are an infantry division, and more importantly they're built around grounded airborne troops but less along the line of "what could the airbornes take with them to be air-dropped" and more along the line of "what can we find at unused airbase defenses to send along with them". My infantry troops can be found in the first and second row (plus some panzerschreck teams in the anti-tank row). If they have wings, that means they don't suffer penalties from being surrounded, which makes them ideal for surging ahead to take territory early in Phase A. If they have a star in the upper left, that means they're leaders. (Most leaders in this game are infantry.) I filled all my slots for pure infantry along the line of, "I want them to be able to hit armor"; and then I added two more stacks of veteran leaders to fill out the ranks. Scouts I can parsel out throughout the game (as spotters for arty and airstrikes), but I chose the ones that can also panzerfaust armor nearby. (The little yellow symbol on the upper right, with a black plate being divided by a black slash, indicates short range armor piercing.) By the same token, as noted, I bring along a lot of PzSchrek teams in Phase A's anti-tank.

What the Luftlanders suck at, as noted upthread, is tanks. I'm still polishing just how much armor I should even try bringing, but my experiments suggest that it's better to flood the field early with sucky old French tanks (which I've got access to lots of), even though they're going to die, than to try to bring a lot fewer more veteran but still sucky armor. By the same token, I'm bringing lots of StuGs and some StuHs in Phase C, and as many Marder 2s as I can get my hands on.

Since I'm air controlling as a main strategy, I'm bring the most numerous decent anti-air stack I can find in Phase B -- but no more than one stack, because I don't have many anti-air slots, and those elite 88s are like freaking gold.

I've learned that I don't usually have ammo problems until Phase C, so I only bring the ammo trucks in then.

What this deck isn't too great at, is advancing for territory control after Phase A -- but I'm not sure it's possible to build a Luftlander deck that does that well. That fits the character of the division: go in hard early to stake out defensive spots, then defend and support while your allies take over in B and C. Since I don't have good armor plating (except for the StuGs near the end, and they aren't as good as many other things), I've decided to make sure almost everything in the field can kill armor plating at long or close distances. I also, after some testing, decided I needed to sacrifice some quality in power for stacks that will bring significant numbers of units because it's impossible to control the map with fewer units. That balance is hard to strike, and my fragile but numerous early French tanks are a source of bitter bother for me: I really do need them for more early map control, basically shooting transports coming in early.
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sandman2575

That's a helluva lot of Luftwaffe you're sporting there, Jason.   :coolsmiley:

Also pretty "C" phase heavy, when it comes to units beyond infantry & recon.  I tend to prioritize "B" in my own stacks, since "C" can feel like a long way off when you're getting your a$$ handed to you in phase "A" (my own common experience, anyways...)

Aren't you worried about running out of munitions with no Supply available until "C"?  EDIT -- I see that no, you're aren't.  :)

My own $0.02, but I've pretty much completely eliminated crappy French/Somua armor from my Wehrmacht decks. Even in phase "A", it just doesn't feel like they're worth the precious slots. I've taken to emphasizing artillery and AA as my support units. And seriously de-emphasizing airpower. Here's my 352nd Infanterie, just as a point of contrast --





JasonPratt

Actually, I've got plenty of B units: lots of veteran infantry, anti-air (which has anti-infantry dual-purpose), Marder IIs starting in, more crappy French tanks  :buck2: , almost always some elite A Phase infantry remaining, lots of arty, almost all my remaining air. B Phase is so full I can't do everything, but that's when I'm deciding whether to go more air power or arty power, or maybe a bigger ground push with the grenadiers.

If the Luftlanders had machine-gun transports which stayed on the map, I might get rid of my early crappy tanks. But they're good at zapping the enemy's machine-gun transports, so unless the enemy brings medium tanks early I can prevent them from rolling opportunity thrusts deep into my side of the map.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

Barthheart

Hmmmm.... must remember to bring early medium tanks to a fight with JP.  ;)

Jarhead0331

Here are two examples of balanced battlegroups that I've had a lot of success with in single player.

This is a balanced BG of the 12.SS "Hitlerjugend". The only potential weakness is a lack of early "A" Phase artillery and aviation. Otherwise, I feel like this BG can hold its own throughout, and has especially heavy hitting mid and late battle firepower. Yes, there is no "A" phase supply, but if you need supply before "B" phase, you'll need prayer and divine intervention a lot more than ammo. 



This is also a somewhat balanced BG, this time from 17.SS Panzergrendier. I think this BG plays a little better on the defense.  It compensates for its lack of armored firepower with nice anti-tank, artillery and aviation assets. I like to use the strong infantry units, backed up by artillery and CAS, to seize and hold territory, then bring in the anti-tank pieces and let the enemy come to me.



I prefer making balanced decks because I primarily play single player. However, I am delving into MP, and while balanced decks still certainly have their place, I think the most successful MP teams, are the ones where each member of the team specializes in one or two roles.  This should overwhelm a team composed of players using balanced decks...Here, being a jack of all trades and a master of none can lead to defeat against experienced, specialized players who coordinate their strategy.

Grogheads Uber Alles
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Gusington



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jomni


Jarhead0331

Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Gusington



слава Україна!

We can't live under the threat of a c*nt because he's threatening nuclear Armageddon.

-JudgeDredd

Jarhead0331

Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Gusington

"The Goddamn war will be over before we get out there, won't it Private Pyle!"



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Cyrano

The game is tooled, ultimately, around its deck building and its relationship to MP.  That can and does make one think about the interplay between the different arms in a quasi-historical way.

It's not a substitute for a TO&E, however, much less the OOB for an actual battle.  And I will leave to the side the strategic stuff that must be pushed to the side for the game to be fun; things like Jason's worthy note that the Wehrmacht seeking anything approaching air superiority in this period is funny.

Modders are magical people, though, and I very much look forward to what they come up with.

And none of this should be taken to say the game isn't very fine at doing what it intends.  I just don't think it is what it isn't.

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Jarhead0331

Quote from: Cyrano on May 28, 2017, 11:05:33 PM

And none of this should be taken to say the game isn't very fine at doing what it intends.  I just don't think it is what it isn't.

.. but nobody is claiming it is something other than what it is. The only people who are complaining about what it isn't are the people who insist upon supreme historical accuracy and authenticity as to every detail. This isn't War in the West, nor was it ever meant to be. I'm amused by people who try to knock it simply because it's not the game they wanted. So what if stuGs arent harder to hit because of their really low profile??? This particular issue hasn't stopped me from enjoying the hell out of this game. People who take their games so seriously probably don't end up enjoying much...in games...and in life.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Hofstadter

Did the tutorials. Played and won the st mere eglise scenario.

Ugh I love the damned thing. Blyat
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Jarhead0331

Here is a balanced Allied BG I just made with the 3d Armored Spearhead. I have not tested it yet in combat, but will do so asap and report back. I see no reason why it will not perform as intended though. It has a good mix of offensive firepower throughout all phases, infantry, armor and artillery, supported by nice command elements, AAA, steady supply and even a reasonable aviation component.

Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18