Rules Writers Write Rules, Right? Or Have I Gone Mad?

Started by Cyrano, July 05, 2017, 10:41:27 AM

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GJK

The forum here is starting to read like the game company folders at CSW....


That said, I too didn't see a problem with the rule or his clarification but that's one small example of what sounds like were many cases. 


I've seen and been told by designers on more than one occasion "If you don't like it, house rule it".  It's hard to read their demeanor on a message board and so I don't know if that is a half-joke or a straight up "go pound sand" type of response.  Could be that they feel threatened that the players know how to better the game that they designed; I dunno.


You guys laugh and mock about it but I've found over the many years of playing that the ASL rulebook is probably the best written rulebook out there.  Sure, questions arise and sure clarifications/errata has gone out many times but never once have we consulted it (and yes, that is frequent) and not gotten an exact "to the point" answer.  It's not a rules book, it's a how-to reference manual and it's very difficult to just read cover to cover but once you know them and have to reference/cross-reference several rules, you'll get right to your answer in there.  I wish more of the "meatier" games were like that; I'm thinking Regs XXX for La Bataille right now.  The wordy prose seems to read ok when you're just reading the rulebook but when you actually sit down to play and need to find something...ugh, what a mess.


Anyways, good post Cyrano - you certainly have some valid points about the state of game design these days.



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Cyrano

@GJK:  I greatly admire the rules in ASL.  Honestly.  You have to know what you're getting into going in, but the whole point of the exercise is to avoid the need to house rule and, yes, that comes at a cost of a small measure of, what, familiarity?  Conviviality?  I don't know what the word is, but it seems to be what the author of the rules in question sought and what I think I least want in my games.

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Pinetree

It's a pity (but understandable) that with the more meatier games you can't have 2 manuals, one for learning and one for reference. The learning one is conversational in tone while the reference manual would be written like the ASL manual. Would be a huge amount of work though.
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Barthheart

Quote from: Pinetree on July 07, 2017, 02:09:05 AM
It's a pity (but understandable) that with the more meatier games you can't have 2 manuals, one for learning and one for reference. The learning one is conversational in tone while the reference manual would be written like the ASL manual. Would be a huge amount of work though.

Not a wargame, but Star Trek Frontiers has exactly this. One manual for learning the game that basically steps you through the entire process of a game, with rules references to another manual that is written as a very detailed reference to each rule. It works really well.

GJK

Quote from: Pinetree on July 07, 2017, 02:09:05 AM
It's a pity (but understandable) that with the more meatier games you can't have 2 manuals, one for learning and one for reference. The learning one is conversational in tone while the reference manual would be written like the ASL manual. Would be a huge amount of work though.

The "Starter Kits" did just that - it uses more of a conversational style presentation with the rules with idea being that if you got through the SK's and were ready for full ASL, then by that point you should have no problem with the 'tome of rules'.
Clip your freaking corners!
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Blood Bowl on VASSAL - Ask me about it! http://garykrockover.com/BB/
----------------------
"Fat, drunk, and stupid is no way to go through life, son."

-Dean Vernon Wormer

bayonetbrant

The COIN series does that w/ the "playbooks" too.  They walk you through a turn or two with a narrative in the playbook to help you get the hang of the game.
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bbmike

^Lock 'n Load also has a game play walkthrough that is helpful.
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mirth

Quote from: bayonetbrant on July 07, 2017, 06:12:27 AM
The COIN series does that w/ the "playbooks" too.  They walk you through a turn or two with a narrative in the playbook to help you get the hang of the game.

Most (if not all) of the GMT games do this now.
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airboy

Good front page review.  Game looks beautiful.  Unbelievable that the rules are so screwed up on a game that is being redone and where they are charging $80+.  I would play with someone else (with house rules) but would never, ever buy something so slapdash.

Cyrano

Thanks for saying so.

My strong impression based on the designer's own comments is that some of the worst "offenses" were not of his making.

They also appear to be heading towards a re-editing of the rule book.

Good signs.
Sergeant at Arms of La Fraternite des Boutons Carres

One mustachioed, cigar-chomping, bespectacled deity, entirely at your service.

You didn't know? My Corps has already sailed to Berlin. We got there 3 days ago and we've been in the Tiergarten on the piss ever since. -- Marshal Soult, October 1806