Dominions 3 Middle Age "GROGHAMMER" game [running]

[Huw the Poo]

I have to admit that my interest has been dropping off.  I'm perfectly willing (and able) to see it through to the end, though.

[JasonPratt]

Obviously I was trying to find someone else to take over Ulm a few weeks ago before the staggered vacations, so I wouldn't mind calling it a day.

We're now into late Tuesday afternoon, and literally only Jotenheim has submitted his move. (Ubercat, the last person to go on vacation.) The game turn will happen in a little over 24 hours.

I haven't heard from my TC team-mate yet, and I want to plan what we're supposed to be doing (or not) before I make another move, although I suppose I could go ahead and do it and then re-submit if he corresponds.

Still, even though we're running about a month behind, most of that month was a recent multi-vacation delay. Considering how large the game is, we've kept up well on the average once the exceptional data point is accounted for.


Worth noting is that Agartha is one of the Big Four in this game, and really most of the non-Four are still pretty viable (even if we don't have much chance of winning on our own). At this point in the game, people may have tried out most of what they wanted to try, and might be thinking along two similar yet different lines:

1.) Yeah I'm in good shape, but I'm not a solid winner yet, and if I keep going I may still lose.
2.) I may not be terribly bad off, but unless some miracle happens and I manage to take over most of some larger enemies while they're off fighting each other, I'm probably going to lose. So why exactly would I keep going? It isn't like this is a real war.

To which, now that I think of it, could be added:

3.) Crap, one of the Big Four just declared war on me, and I'm not real sure I can stop him, much less defend myself on a multi-valent front from other opportunists, especially if one or more of them is also one of the Big Four.  ;)

[mkivcs]

"Get off my land! – Just in case any of you were planning to take advantage of my rumoured death. Sorry Jason you haven't quiet got rid of me yet.
Unfortunately I've been somewhat over committed on the work front and the rather had to let the empire fend for itself. (Look upon it as a period of rule by a party of the right)  Just had a look at my latest turn and expected all to be in ruins but it seems to have do rather a good job of running itself, lots of money, gems and troops generated and not used. I should be able to put something together tonight for the current turn although it will be a bit of a quick pass.

I've enjoyed the game up to now but do share doubts voiced by others concerning the future. I think it was Lunaje who suggested a while back that the sheer size of the map would defeat us and I think he may be correct. I was just trying to work out how long it would take to defeat a medium sized empire and even if things went very well the troops still won't be home before the leaves fall. Actually winning the game as a single empire would require a very serious commitment.
If Agartha stalls again I presume that means he will go AI by default. I don't actually even know where on the map he is but as a major empire it may cause balance issues? So this might be a good opportunity to consider if we would prefer a clean end, continue with empires dropping out as they tire or a halt while subs are found for nations who need them. (Or some combination of the above if there are players who want to continue fighting among the remains of shattered empires.)

[Lunaje]

I still think that this game will take a loooong while to reach some kind of conclusion. I'm having a good time but I've been increasingly busy the last weeks so can't commit to the game as much as before. I'll probably have to drop it out eventually, or find a sub, so given the last comments I also wouldn't mind calling it a day.

[elitesix]

Concerning sheer size of the map: for reference, I just finished a game with 11 players on a map of 185 provinces (16 provinces per player, per dominion's 3 ingame description, a "medium" sized map"). We started with a 28 hr timer, switching to 52 hrs around turn 24, then switching to a 76 hr timer around turn 48. The game ended on turn 65. The victory condition was to hold >50% of all capitals for 3 turns, or in this case in 6 capitals. The game took 4.5 months.

In this game, we're playing on 466 province map, and started with 21 players. That's 22 provinces per player. Per dominions 3 description,  20 provinces per player is considered a large map. We started on a 48 hr timer, and we had a month of delays. The victory condition is 2/3 of capitals (unless people concede prior, but everyone can concede at anytime and that cannot be predicted so using that possibility is a little moot). I would guess this game would end closer to around turn 80 at the earliest, and given it's taken 4 months to get to turn 47 with one month of delay at 48 hr timer, I have revise my estimate. I think the game is going to take at least 3 more months; quite possibly 4 or more months. For a total of around 8 months or more.

[JasonPratt]

With about five hours to go, here's the submission list:

Agartha             Waiting for 2h file
Arcoscephale     Waiting for 2h file
Atlantis             2h file received
Eriu                  Waiting for 2h file
Ermor               Waiting for 2h file
Jotunheim         2h file received
Marignon           Waiting for 2h file
Mictlan              Waiting for 2h file
Pythium            Waiting for 2h file
R'lyeh               2h file received
T'ien Ch'i           Waiting for 2h file
Ulm                  Waiting for 2h file


I'll be playing my turn in about an hour, but that still leaves eight players (or seven with Ermor on the way) out of twelve remaining with risk to stale. More than 50%.

[Huw the Poo]

I should be submitting my turn before the deadline, but (especially after reading what Elitesix just posted) I'm starting to wonder about the future of the game myself.  I suspect that I'm not the only player in this game who has learned a lesson about map size and corresponding length of game.  I went into Groghammer knowing it was a big game and with every intention of seeing it through; I still intend to play on if that's what everyone wants, but I have to admit - I'm not enjoying it much any more.  I certainly won't complain if there's a call to call it a day.

[JasonPratt]

So half are reporting in now. ;)

[Huw the Poo]

Half?  There are four turns received out of twelve, with 3.5 hours to go.  Not a great sign.

[elitesix]

Half?  There are four turns received out of twelve, with 3.5 hours to go.  Not a great sign.

I don't think we should delay unless there is a request.

Let people submit last minute, or let them stale and play next turn, or let them stale and let this game die. You can't force people to be interested in a game of this nature and of this length.

I say that with a heavy heart because I totally was planning on enjoying my invasion of Ulm in the short term :)

[Huw the Poo]

Only half submitted with 30 minutes to go.  :-\

[elitesix]

Nice! Only 4 stales:

-2 of we knew were mia (Mictlan and Agartha).
-Jason was one of them and he's obviously around (Jason why didn't you submit a turn?),
-so really the only unexplained stale is TC!

[JasonPratt]

Got caught at work late, literally did not get back to the house until 7:00pm. Argh... should have done it yesterday.  >:(

Not work's fault, though -- I was working on a project but I could have come home, I just forgot I WAS SUPPOSED TO COME HOME RIGHT AFTER WORK!!

...probably just as well I'm not married, come to think of it... ;)

[elitesix]

Speaking of which, we shall turn Mictlan and Agartha AI? They have 5-6 stales each so they've checked out. (Playing players have 0-2 in our game, no one has 3 or 4).

I can find a non-player to set the nations to AI if that's what we decide.

[JasonPratt]

Mictlan (Claes) was looking for a sub, but I think if one was available we'd already know.

So yep, we need to send them to AI. :(