Avengers: Infinity War

Started by mirth, July 15, 2017, 04:53:03 PM

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SirAndrewD

#195
Quote from: JasonPratt on July 20, 2018, 03:42:20 PM
Meanwhile, James Gunn sounds like he may have been fired by Disney for pedophile joke/comments on twitter.  :o

Yeah, they actually fired him right  before he was supposed to go to Hall H at SDCC.   4Chan /Pol/ dug back in Gunn's twitter history from ten years ago when he used to constantly make very bad taste provocative jokes about pedophilia, rape, 9/11, the Holocaust ect and sent the stuff to Alt-Right bloggers.  They wanted to get him back for his anti-Trump views and his support of the firing of Rosanne.  Looks like they got what they wanted.

Surprising that Disney didn't have him scrub his twitter when they hired him.  I've been following Gunn since he made The Specials, and anyone and everyone knew he used to say stuff just to shock and get a rise out of people.  It's not like any of this was a mystery.
"These men do not want a happy ship. They are deeply sick and try to compensate by making me feel miserable. Last week was my birthday. Nobody even said "happy birthday" to me. Someday this tape will be played and then they'll feel sorry."  - Sgt. Pinback

JasonPratt

Quote from: SirAndrewD on July 20, 2018, 03:58:22 PMI've been following Gunn since he made The Specials, and anyone and everyone knew he used to say stuff just to shock and get a rise out of people.  It's not like any of this was a mystery.

That's what I thought, too: edgy-boy humor, wooooo. (If you could take a black light to his room it would look like a Jackson Pollock painting, etc.)

Hollywood has a serious secret-pedophile problem, though, so I can understand the backlash. I can also understand the irony: he snarks off about Rosanne being fired after an off-color joke, as if his own off-color jokes on twitter would be immune or forgotten.

I suspect he'll be rehired soon once he shows he has learned his lesson. (Unlike Rosanne, despite her immediate penitence and realization that other people suffer for her mistakes.)
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OJsDad

https://mashable.com/2018/07/22/iron-man-robert-downey-jr-ad-lib.amp/

Quote
"I am Iron Man."

Robert Downey Jr.-as-Tony Stark utters that short sentence in the waning moments of 2008's Iron Man, the movie that kicked off the Marvel Cinematic Universe. In the fictional moment, Stark opted to cast aside prepared remarks that would have kept his secret identity safe and out himself instead.


SEE ALSO: Marvel's 'Black Widow' gets one step closer to reality with a new director


It's such a lightning strike moment for a movie based on comic books, where secret identities are often treated as sacrosanct. It was also, as we now learn, an unscripted moment that Downey himself felt was a better fit for the character.

The revelation comes from none other than Kevin Feige, the president of Marvel Studios. "It's a fine line," he said of Downey Jr.'s decision to stray from the script. The interview comes from Deadline, part of a larger story that looks back on the MCU's first film a full 10 years later.

"If you're changing something for no reason, that's one thing, but if you're changing something because you want to double-down on the spirit of who the character is? That's a change we'll make. Tony Stark not reading off the card and not sticking with the fixed story? Him just blurting out 'I am Iron Man?' That seems very much in keeping with who that character is."

Director Jon Favreau and Marvel let the scene stand as it was shot, and the rest is history. Tony outs himself as a superhero, and much of the broader MCU story that rippled out from the first Iron Man was shaped by that choice.

In fact, Feige credits that creative decision, along with the subsequent fan response, for many of the bolder liberties Marvel took in subsequent years. It's apparently why Thor, who hid behind the identity of Dr. Donald Blake for many years in the comics, was his own, Asgardian self from moment one.

"It just hadn't been done in the comics before, but it was something very much in keeping with the comics character and what he could have done," Feige said of Downey's Iron Man line.

"I think it did inspire us on all the movies. What I love now — 20 movies in — is how fans expect the MCU to change and adapt. They expect us to be inspired by the comics as opposed to being slavishly devoted to them."

Hey, angry Star Wars fans. I hope you're paying attention.
'Here at NASA we all pee the same color.'  Al Harrison from the movie Hidden Figures.

JasonPratt

Angry Star Wars fans don't care for crappy inspiration, Mashable, meant overtly to break the fanbase.  ::) Hope you're paying attention, but I can already tell you won't be.

Marvel's attitude has not yet been "Let the past die, kill it if you have to. Oh you don't like us disrespecting the past? Then you're evil idiots, nyah, we can do what we want and don't need you as customers."  :P

Okay, well, if you don't need fans of your products as customers, Star Wars producers... then get ready to complain about capitalism I guess.  >:D


(Edited to add: obviously I'm not replying to OJD there, but to the Mashable article's author.)
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JasonPratt

Enough of the hideousness of modern movie moralizing though.

Here's a deleted scene from Thor3 which I lazily decided to add here for topicality sake (and laziness) that I legitimately don't quite understand why it was scrapped. I assume it was the tentacle party, but wouldn't that have been the easiest thing to replace or eliminate altogether?!

ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

#200
Moviebob weighs in on the Gunn firing (pun not intended): https://moviebobcentral.com/2018/07/23/on-james-gunn/

There's a video of the essay, too, but in this case it's just the print version on screen read aloud.

While I generally agree with his points, I note (1) a complete lack of acknowledgment of the political manipulation of media in a fake-news way by his side of the aisle (i.e. both sides do it, as he should be well aware, and it should be stopped -- this shouldn't only be about one side being stopped); and (2) no mention of the horrid and numerous links Gunn used to include as part of his edgy humor attempts. Those worry me more than the edgelord humor.

Still, I do get the edgelord humor defense and, far more importantly, that Gunn has tried to make real amends and repentance for what he used to do. That goes far in my book.

A lack of perspective bordering on hypocrisy, apparently inflated by Trump Derangement Syndrome, I also understand  ::) ; but I don't think manipulating Disney into firing him is the best way for him to mature further along that line.

Moreover: it's important to understand that Gunn was the target of the sorts of edgelord internet scum that he himself used to be. These are not really political supporters of Trump, they're the counter-culture trolls, and right now radical-progressive culture (which Bob calls "center-progressive") is the mainstream culture (which is why Bob feels like calling it "center progressive" of course) -- so that's who they oppose. In the battle of edgelords vs edgelords, everyone loses. And all sides take advantage of their crude egotistic bleep-ery, to paint each other in the worst possible light, in order to keep the conflicts running.

Because where heated conflicts are running, there's power to be found in the heat (if not the light) of the friction. And the seriously evil masterminds, on each side and behind each side, will take harvest of that power for their own purposes.

But like I said I generally agree with Bob on this one.


(Though MovieBob desperately needs to get some historical perspective on exactly who the White Nationalists and fascists have almost entirely been in American history... he's being manipulated at a much higher level of troll-ops himself.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
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bayonetbrant

By way of a pure "Whataboutism" attack, let's also note that Mike Cernovich, the right-wing troll who first brought Gunn's years-old transgressions to light, posted an hour-long Youtube documentary on the veracity of Pizzagate, and doesn't believe in rape:
http://archive.is/S0Sra
http://archive.is/CeNFX

he also knows that he's wrong, because he went back and deleted those tweets (which is why they are archived) but unlike Gunn, has never once tried to make amends for his idiocy.

So when Jack Probosiec jumps on the dogpile with a treasure-trove of Gunn's screenshots hashtagged "#walkaway" but is absolutely tombstone-silent about Cernovich's past transgressions, it's clear and obvious that this isn't about treatment of women, homophobia, minorities, pedophilia, or anything else.
It's 100% purely, unequivocally, about the culture wars, and the internet flash mobs that can't wait to yell and scream on command, with almost no nuance or thought whatsoever.
The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

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JasonPratt

#202
Oh it's absolutely about the culture wars, no doubt; and moreover the slugs who abetted this particular salvo have no leg to stand on regarding their own behavior in private and in public. I guarantee they didn't do it to help Trump, they did it because they regarded Gunn as a sanctimonious hypocrite who used to be one of them.

The wars are more complex though than one side vs the other, much less the good guys and the bad guys (and MovieBob is solidly in the good side / bad side dichotomy of us vs them, with "us" in his case being, cough, "center-progressive".) The edgelords rebelling against the current dominant culture are mainly in it for the chaos, for example, to make themselves feel superior by causing effects and ruining other people's effects. They aren't even necessarily as devoted as being in-it-for-the-chaos. They just do things on a moment-to-moment basis, cutting with the knives of Baal, themselves if they have no other target, to make themselves feel something more than what they felt yesterday. MovieBob has been fooled into thinking they're "cybernazis", but they aren't really: real National Socialists would use them as icebreakers for the revolution, maybe, and then crumble them up and burn them away. They're sucky little pawns at best.

(I'm assuming charitably in his favor that MovieBob has been fooled into thinking those dolts are real Nazis. He may know better and is intentionally manipulating media himself. After all, HE DOES COME FROM THE SAME POOL! -- he should really have experience.)

Come to think of it, I suppose they really are right-wing in that sense: they're for anarchy more than anything.

Anyway. The commentary I've seen from people whom MovieBob would no doubt consider right-wing fascist white supremeey Trumpkopf sieg heilers, are almost unanimous that Gunn shouldn't have been fired and should be rehired. They're chortling about the left-wing eating its own, but that's because they regard his firing as a symptom of the radical-left's ultimately self-destructive and corrosive mindset. They're really making fun of the people who fired him and the 'pearl-clutching' people who insisted that he should be fired. Mostly they're on Gunn's side about this, and so against the troll-lords. I qualify "mostly" because some of them think he was further down the pedo-hole, so to speak, than he has ever let on. But even those people see his firing as a self-destructive failure of the left, not as a triumph of conservativism or the Republican party, which most of them don't give a hoot about anyway (except so far as the Trump Administration has sort-of fooled them into thinking he's inherently a chaos player when he really is an embodiment of the status quo who has figured out a promotional niche to exploit.) Much less as a triumph of Nazism or the Klan or some nonsense like that.

As to whether or how far the Trump Administration manipulated the events... well, I wouldn't put it past them, but traditionally the Republican Party (regardless of flavor) hasn't gone in for that kind of thing nearly as much as the Democrats (in various flavors) have. (hashtag Cernovichconfirmeddonkeytool ;) ) Then again, Trump is a fairly recent neo-con, whom I wouldn't classify as a conservative at all (and not much of a true centrist liberal either) who has had much more connections with the Democratic Party machine in his personal and business history, so who knows. Seems kind of a waste to put a career-hit on James Gunn of all people, regardless of what he said against Trump which has been relatively mild compared to other people the TrumpAdmin hasn't gone after.

(MovieBob seems aware of the implausibility of this charge, so he regards it as a dry run for something more nefarious. PS, he adds, we all know what this more nefarious coming operation will be: the downfall of Kathleen Kennedy in revenge for screwing up Star Wars. ......what?  :2funny: That's part of Bob's brain admitting that this is not really a political hit at all, just people MAKING POLITICAL HAY OUT OF IT after the fact. People such as, for one pertinent example, Bob Chipman.  ::) It really is just scummy internet pranksters amusing themselves with their destructive powers over petty vendettas, not a political conspiracy. But various people, including Cernovich, badly want it to be, so with some spin, presto: it really is now. Various political actors on various sides make use of it, and the poo-flinging continues.)
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SirAndrewD

I still don't get how Disney PR didn't tell Gunn to scrub his twitter back in 2012 when he initially made his apologies for being and edgelord troll in the past.

Notice Rian Johnson deleted 21,000 tweets this week.  I guess Disney's finally getting on top of its people.
"These men do not want a happy ship. They are deeply sick and try to compensate by making me feel miserable. Last week was my birthday. Nobody even said "happy birthday" to me. Someday this tape will be played and then they'll feel sorry."  - Sgt. Pinback

JasonPratt

Saw that, too. Smirked at the frantic scrubbing. Those life choices don't look so daring now do they, Rian?  :P

But it doesn't matter. The internet remembers; someone would have found those twits, just like someone did find those twits after Gunn did scrub his. If someone wants to air Rian's dumbass tweetering (or Kennedy's for that matter), they'll find it and get it done.

To be selfishly honest, I care a lot more about James Gunn coming back for Marvel than I do about base-cracker Rian coming back for more SWars. I'm trying not to let that factor into my current balance in favor of Gunn being re-instituted, but I'm sure not gonna cry if they work out a way.
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

JasonPratt

Lord, I need a palate cleanser after that. If only HISHE hadn't already done an episode on Av3, or would do another on--

-----



DANGIT, I JUST USED UP A FINGER ON THE PAW, DIDN'T I!?

(Note that this is mostly a commercial for Audible, and a little more specifically for the Harry Potter audiobook series.)
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

mirth

"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus

mirth

"45 minutes of pooping Tribbles being juggled by a drunken Horta would be better than Season 1 of TNG." - SirAndrewD

"you don't look at the mantelpiece when you're poking the fire" - Bawb

"Can't 'un' until you 'pre', son." - Gus

JasonPratt

QuoteDisney insiders say the company was not aware of the offensive tweets and was taken aback when they were recirculated.

That doesn't mesh well with the other official story, that this is old news and Disney dealt with it long ago before hiring him on.  ???
ICEBREAKER THESIS CHRONOLOGY! -- Victor Suvorov's Stalin Grand Strategy theory, in lots and lots of chronological order...
Dawn of Armageddon -- narrative AAR for Dawn of War: Soulstorm: Ultimate Apocalypse
Survive Harder! -- Two season narrative AAR, an Amazon Blood Bowl career.
PanzOrc Corpz Generals -- Fantasy Wars narrative AAR, half a combined campaign.
Khazâd du-bekâr! -- narrative dwarf AAR for LotR BfME2 RotWK campaign.
RobO Q Campaign Generator -- archived classic CMBB/CMAK tool!

bayonetbrant

it was Disney not wanting their twitter feeds over-run by Cernovich's troll army
The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers