Polaris Sector - another new space 4x

Started by RedArgo, November 02, 2015, 04:48:47 PM

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ghostryder

I'm not trying to disprove anything, I'm just trying to figure out how the dev laid out the galaxy setup. It's a weird mix to say the least. in many ways it appears scripted with preset positions---this would be normal in regards to say 'pirates' or 'space monsters' in relation to the players position--almost all 4x games do that--but this game seems to stick you, in relationship to other empires- in pre-determined areas.. For example it is impossible to set up a 2 player race with 900 planets -- in hopes your be at one end of the galaxy and the other player will be on the other end----as for one, as you reduce the number of players the game reduces the number of stars---and does not allow you to increase it. For every race you deselect your total star count restricts 100 stars less--so a 2 race game can only have a maximum of 200 starts. 4 player 400 and so on.

That's something I have not ever seen in a 4x game---why can't I have 2 players in a 900 star galaxy? there's a few reasons as a programmer myself I can think of---take for example XCOM2 and how they do their maps. It's a build of premade blocks fitted together---have enough blocks and maps don't repeat or appear not to--but the variables of that individual block is fixed. So One possability is the galaxy map here is built the same way because the developer wishes for you to engage pirates early and another race or whatnot-so events within that block are scripted as opposed to random.

Another possability is there is an inbuilt limit to 100 planets per player----in terms of the data being handled in the varables---the game may not be able to handle a 2 player game on a 900 star map because of the way Global variables were defined. The game will then bug out once a player started colonizing more than 100 planets---

The reason I'm fixated on it as discovering this foundation I can then have a solid bead on what to expect A.I. wise from the game---as the Map is the foundation of which the A.I. operates. And a house is only as solid as it's foundation ----the same holds true for how the game world is created -- and how it is feed to the A.I. blocks.

Or in laymen's terms I'm trying to access the game-- perhaps there's something new and ungue about the galaxy setup that allows for better experiences? Or the opposite? It's an interesting puzzle -- but it's not because I'm here to prove or disprove anything--I just want to know how the damn thing works before I can really do that   :-\

goldsboro

It's easier to ask a developer on the official forum than trying to guess :)

I saw him even showing some parts of code to explain how things work.

undercovergeek

Quote from: solops on April 01, 2016, 03:44:13 PM
Try not to build factories and orbital factories on earth-like planets...unavoidable at times

waaaaah - why not? i have used earth types as my primary factory outputs

Quote from: mikeck on April 01, 2016, 04:50:12 PM
I don't think building a little bit  of everything on each planet is effective.

+1 i tried a 'balanced' colony manager and it specialised in nothing and excelled in nothing - ended up knocking it all down and setting all planets to micromanage - im a geek like that


ghostryder

I kind of agree. Balanced colonies even in thier discription says they only produce for that planets needs. Better to focus on whatever your short on. In my game I've only discovered one earthlike in 30 colonized planets consisting of mining or industry---so I either need farm or research. Since my global food is still raising I picked research.

Grim.Reaper

Been trying to resist purchasing since waiting out stellaris.....but starting to think I might have to try it after all....

mikeck

#200
Quote from: ghostryder on April 02, 2016, 07:25:34 AM
I kind of agree. Balanced colonies even in thier discription says they only produce for that planets needs. Better to focus on whatever your short on. In my game I've only discovered one earthlike in 30 colonized planets consisting of mining or industry---so I either need farm or research. Since my global food is still raising I picked research.

Yeah, I found 3 earth-like in my current game in the first 10 or so stars. First game was like yours 1 in about 20 or so. I think EarthLink planets are far less important mid-late game as your big industrial rocky/desert/frozen/volcanic planets will churn out more ships. If only because the Terran planets are needed for food and research. Early game though, like in your situation, a lack of earth-like planets really hurts because you can't expand. Need planets to make food and people. So even when you get atmospheric domes (or find water or earth-like) you don't have the population to colonize. Or at least it's harder

I was winning my game but a far distant second in planet numbers and population to the Cat guys. I have been at war for them awile and my economy is a wreck. I'm spending so many resources and time building ships on those worlds, I'm not able to build domes, factories, mines, etc. things are falling apart and I'm now 2nd place. Lost about a dozen ships in combat but I had a pitifully small navy to start with.

3 things I will do differently next time:

1: understand that ships take a long time to build and lots of resources. Unlike other 4x's, I can't wait until I'm at war to build up a navy. Takes too long.

2. Related to #1, the more crap you put on a ship, the more resources and time required to build it. I think it may be better when caught with a navy too small, to build numerous cheap ships instead. T-72s instead of M1's. I'm thinking no shields, half the fancy weaponry and less gadgets like ballistic computers.

3. To aid with #2, weapon placement matters. Weapons in turrets ON THR TOP DECK fire in a 360 arc. On the lower decks, it's a 90 arc facing out. I had been placing point defense up top for coverage and anti-ship stuff below decks. Problem is that when attacking other ships or stations, you move towards each other...ships move very slow so there is a lot of firing as you close. By the time you turn broadside, the battle is half over. I also underestimated range. Next time I'm putting PD on the lower deck all around the edge and putting bigger turrets with ship killers up top. That way I get long range forward firing
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

solops

#201
Quote from: mikeck on April 02, 2016, 08:34:22 AM

2. Related to #1, the more crap you put on a ship, the more resources and time required to build it. I think it may be better when caught with a navy too small, to build numerous cheap ships instead. T-72s instead of M1's. I'm thinking no shields, have the fancy weaponry and less gadgets like ballistic computers.

3. To aid with #2, weapon placement matters. Weapons in turrets ON THR TOP DECK fire in a 360 arc. On the lower decks, it's a 90 arc facing out. I had been placing point defense up top for coverage and anti-ship stuff below decks. Problem is that when attacking other ships or stations, you move towards each other...ships move very slow so there is a lot of firing as you close. By the time you turn broadside, the battle is half over. I also underestimated range. Next time I'm putting PD on the lower deck all around the edge and putting bigger turrets with ship killers up top. That way I get long range forward firing

I think you have #3 right. Top deck for ship killers, other decks for missile-fighter killers. I have found that when I have inadequate energy that replacing a 6x6 top deck slot with 4 small turret Eximer lasers (in place of below deck slots, which are then left empty) makes for awesome 360 degree Point defense

Also, I have to keep an eye on on item cost in minerals, gravitonium and one other (the blue one) always run short. Taking an inferior weapon/engine is sometimes a better economic decision. And re. earthlike planets in answer to a question about my above earthlike planet comment. Earthlikes are too valuable as food planets to use them as factory planets. That's not a rule, but a guideline to remember. As you colonise gas giants, etc later on that can grow little or no food, the shortages  make those food planets valuable.
"I could have conquered Europe, all of it, but I had women in my life." - King Henry II of England
I may be drunk, Miss, but in the morning I will be sober and you will still be ugly. - Winston Churchill
Wine is sure proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy. - Benjamin Franklin

Ian C

#202
Quote from: mikeck on April 02, 2016, 08:34:22 AM

I think EarthLink planets are far less important mid-late game

With resource shortages I've found it necessary sometimes to micromanage an Earthlike planet and temporarily dismantle whatever typical buildings are there to shift production to resource generation.

Quote
2. Related to #1, the more crap you put on a ship, the more resources and time required to build it. I think it may be better when caught with a navy too small, to build numerous cheap ships instead. T-72s instead of M1's. I'm thinking no shields, half the fancy weaponry and less gadgets like ballistic computers.

I'm currently in a stand-off against the lizards and my southern expanse has a single chokepoint between me and them,  which I renamed 'Bastion'. All I have to do is hold them off, so I built a crapload of system-only ships, mostly corvettes and frigates (1 fuel tank each) quite cheaply, hundreds of Fighters (un-hangered) and battlestations. Ships in orbit get auto-refuelled and repaired with no need for support ships.

Worth noting is that later ship component techs use different resource combinations and lose some. A lot of my early ships required lots of Plutonium which became scarce so I was forced to trade with other empires. Some of the later ship parts don't require Plutonium, so suddenly there was a solution. I redesigned all my capital ships and bingo, problem solved.

EDIT: I just researched Celestial Stations so now I can colonise and mine Gas Giants for Plutonium. Win.

mikeck

Wish my empire had a southern choke point. Enemy has 5 ways of accessing it including a wormhole. Unfortunately, the planets at these 5 locations aren't industrial giants so a battle station takes forever to build. If I can stop this war and catch-up, I can build a good battle station at a factory planet, then disassemble it and transport it over in my freighters
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

Jarhead0331

My biggest enemy is pirates. They are really annoying. They come into my systems, destroy orbital infrastructure, and when they are weaker than the fleets I send after them, they just cut and run.
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


Ian C

#205
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 02, 2016, 11:53:31 AM
My biggest enemy is pirates. They are really annoying. They come into my systems, destroy orbital infrastructure, and when they are weaker than the fleets I send after them, they just cut and run.

I turned off pirates for my first game as I wanted an 'easy' start.


Quote from: mikeck on April 02, 2016, 11:12:47 AM
Wish my empire had a southern choke point. Enemy has 5 ways of accessing it including a wormhole.

Yeah, I had that one. Sneaky bastards tried a sneak attack. By sheer luck I had a Battleship with escorts parked nearby and the 'battle' was their retreat. I got one up on them though because I just discovered Stargate tech. You build 2 freighters with a gate module in each. One stays in the system you are travelling from. Stack the second one up with fuel if you need insane range on it. Send this one to your location (can even make it stealth) and once it gets there you initiate a gate, both freighters vanish and a temporary stargate is built. Send your Fleet through. 

I love this game. It doesn't come with predefined 'techs' that are doctrines or tactics. You make your own and this is where I really dig it. I have tailored fleets for tactical/spying/strike/invasion etc.
I'd dare to say that this 'might be' the spiritual successor to MOO3. If it's this good at release, with added DLC and mods this could be freaking superlative. Seriously, if they could allow us to name fleets and make a planetary force hierarchy (corps, etc.) and add a few more info screens for empire management this would be fantastic.

Jarhead0331

Speaking of invasions, has anyone launched one? How does it all work?
Grogheads Uber Alles
Semper Grog
"No beast is more alpha than JH." Gusington, 10/23/18


mikeck

Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 02, 2016, 12:09:36 PM
Speaking of invasions, has anyone launched one? How does it all work?

I have. 2000 marines and 10 ground attack craft bs planet with population of 12,300. Lost 500 marines in the drop so I don't know if the planet had defenses. The remaining marines and attack craft were insufficient and I pulled them up when they were at about 70% casualties.  I am trying again with 2 ships containing 4000 marines 10 attack craft and 25 tanks.

Something I dislike about planetary assault is the inability to conduct orbital bombardment. You can bombard a planet but it kills civilians and the rest of the galaxy will hate you. Seems reasonable to be able to bomb military installations like planetary defenses and military bases to pave the way for the assault and make sure 500 marines don't die on the way down
"A government large enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have."--Thomas Jefferson

Freyland

Quote from: mikeck on April 02, 2016, 12:14:40 PM
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 02, 2016, 12:09:36 PM
Speaking of invasions, has anyone launched one? How does it all work?

I have. 2000 marines and 10 ground attack craft bs planet with population of 12,300. Lost 500 marines in the drop so I don't know if the planet had defenses. The remaining marines and attack craft were insufficient and I pulled them up when they were at about 70% casualties.  I am trying again with 2 ships containing 4000 marines 10 attack craft and 25 tanks.

Something I dislike about planetary assault is the inability to conduct orbital bombardment. You can bombard a planet but it kills civilians and the rest of the galaxy will hate you. Seems reasonable to be able to bomb military installations like planetary defenses and military bases to pave the way for the assault and make sure 500 marines don't die on the way down
As much as I would prefer to isolate military targets, it's hard to imagine that happening.  If you are using missiles, to take out anything significant is likely to have a large warhead.  If you are using some form of laser, it would have to be pretty impressive to maintain potency through the atmosphere and the long distance of orbit, so I think it too would have lots of collateral damage.  Besides, the military will be defending important shit like population centers, industry and infrastructure, and that's where the civvies live. 

Ian C

#209
Quote from: Jarhead0331 on April 02, 2016, 12:09:36 PM
Speaking of invasions, has anyone launched one? How does it all work?

I was about to take a strategically important planet that the lizards own. I shot out their defences and sent bombers over loaded with planetary bombs. I dropped the lot, wiping them all out. Then I got the only two races I have good relations and trade with sending me diplomatic messages of 'outrage and shock at the carpet bombing and loss of innocent life'. Because of playing previous 4x games, I hadn't taken civilians into account. I've never seen this before. My trade partners relationship with me nosedived and for the sake of holding on to their trades which I vitally need, I halted the invasion. It appears you can't easily steamroller across worlds without repercussions. The only way to take planets is the old-fashioned way. I guess I'll have to build troops in force.
However, this was another point where the game entered another level of awesome for me.