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#1

Computer Gaming / Re: 40k Custodes - Who here ha...

Last post by Jarhead0331 - Today at 05:51:05 PM

Alright, against my better judgment, I tried and as per usual, I got ignored.

Locked until further notice.

#2

Computer Gaming / Re: 40k Custodes - Who here ha...

Last post by undercovergeek - Today at 05:48:13 PM

It's not wro

And then we're right back to female James Bond

Explain to me why this idea is wrong?  What is it that really upsets people about this idea?
[/quot

And then we're right back to female James Bond

Explain to me why this idea is wrong?  What is it that really upsets people about this idea?

Not a clue - it doesn't upset me

#3

Computer Gaming / Re: 40k Custodes - Who here ha...

Last post by al_infierno - Today at 05:45:29 PM

You're going to argue that space marines aren't exclusively male, that the 60 odd books aren't mainly male characters? Because you are wrong Because up until last week they were

Just because the characters are primarily male doesn't mean it's a male-only hobby.  Many women love Predator despite the fact that the only female character in that movie is basically a damsel in distress.  You don't seem to be understanding my general point that these properties, regardless of what gender is depicted, have ALWAYS appealed to both genders, and attempts at adding more women to these IPs is simply an attempt to be more reflective of the general audience.

Also, GW have in fact made female space marine miniatures in the past, and stated that they stick to making men for primarily logistical reasons, not for lore reasons.

there is not one single obstacle to a girl/woman playing this hobby

Again, this is where you're wrong and where I'd encourage maybe listening to other peoples' experiences in the hobby.  Not every woman will face obstacles like sexist assholes, but many do.  There are absolute TONS of bad actors in male-dominated hobbies that, whether intentionally or not, make the space unsafe or uncomfortable for women.

#4

Computer Gaming / Re: 40k Custodes - Who here ha...

Last post by Father Ted - Today at 05:42:19 PM

And then we're right back to female James Bond

Explain to me why this idea is wrong?  What is it that really upsets people about this idea?

#5

Computer Gaming / Re: 40k Custodes - Who here ha...

Last post by undercovergeek - Today at 05:31:04 PM

Nobody I've read, spoken to or experienced has ever said women are not welcome in the hobby

That's like saying "nobody I've ever spoken to has personally encountered racism" as a counter-argument to racism.  Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  There are tons of examples of people being excluded from all kinds of nerd hobbies (yes, even Warhammer) if you care to look for it.

who insist that exclusively male toys and fiction are made to include females

And here's precisely where you're wrong.  Warhammer is not an "exclusively male toy and fiction."  All "guy media" has always appealed to women as much as it has to men.  That's precisely why there's been a push in recent years for this type of media to be more inclusive and representative of its audience, and people like you don't seem to see past your own personal experiences with the hobby.

I'm in a very privileged place - I don't fucking care

This applies so much more than you realize.  Yes, I know you're privileged and don't care.  That's what this whole argument has been about!

Why isn't the dictator in your game a woman?

Why does the dictator in my game need to be a woman?  If you want to talk about female representation in my game, we can talk about it.  There are multiple major female characters in the game, including the PC's wife and daughters.  The in-game society expects them to fit traditional female roles, because the world is intentionally regressive, but they still have agency in the story and can affect the outcomes of major events depending on their choices.  Also, while she's a minor character, there's an explicitly more "feminist" character in Arletta Menator, who embodies the "badass action chick" trope as a contrast to the other women in the game.

The Great Leader easily could have been a woman, and it wouldn't have changed much, but having him be a man is IMO a better fit for the assumptions that go along with the "eastern european dictator" archetype.

I'm sure you want to chose the wrong words to form an argument just because you want an argument

You're going to argue that space marines aren't exclusively male, that the 60 odd books aren't mainly male characters? Because you are wrong Because up until last week they were - you seem intent on arguing who gets to play the hobby - no one is arguing that - there is not one single obstacle to a girl/woman playing this hobby

I'm sure it makes sense for space marines to be men in the authors eyes but you know, it's just a better fit

#6

Computer Gaming / Re: 40k Custodes - Who here ha...

Last post by al_infierno - Today at 05:13:15 PM

Nobody I've read, spoken to or experienced has ever said women are not welcome in the hobby

That's like saying "nobody I've ever spoken to has personally encountered racism" as a counter-argument to racism.  Just because you don't see it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  There are tons of examples of people being excluded from all kinds of nerd hobbies (yes, even Warhammer) if you care to look for it.

who insist that exclusively male toys and fiction are made to include females

And here's precisely where you're wrong.  Warhammer is not an "exclusively male toy and fiction."  All "guy media" has always appealed to women as much as it has to men.  That's precisely why there's been a push in recent years for this type of media to be more inclusive and representative of its audience, and people like you don't seem to see past your own personal experiences with the hobby.

I'm in a very privileged place - I don't fucking care

This applies so much more than you realize.  Yes, I know you're privileged and don't care.  That's what this whole argument has been about!

Why isn't the dictator in your game a woman?

Why does the dictator in my game need to be a woman?  If you want to talk about female representation in my game, we can talk about it.  There are multiple major female characters in the game, including the PC's wife and daughters.  The in-game society expects them to fit traditional female roles, because the world is intentionally regressive, but they still have agency in the story and can affect the outcomes of major events depending on their choices.  Also, while she's a minor character, there's an explicitly more "feminist" character in Arletta Menator, who embodies the "badass action chick" trope as a contrast to the other women in the game.

The Great Leader easily could have been a woman, and it wouldn't have changed much, but having him be a man is IMO a better fit for the assumptions that go along with the "eastern european dictator" archetype.

As for the protagonist, no assumptions are being made about the player.  Many games have a pre-defined protagonist, including Visual Novels.  If someone doesn't want to play the game because they don't identify as a straight man with a wife, that's fine.  But I made that choice primarily out of convenience, because making the protagonist inclusive of different traits like being a woman, being gay, etc. would require an insane amount of work rewriting the entire game multiple times.  Not at all comparable to saying a faction in the lore can now include women if they want.

#7

Computer Gaming / Re: 40k Custodes - Who here ha...

Last post by undercovergeek - Today at 04:57:53 PM

Nobody I've read, spoken to or experienced has ever said women are not welcome in the hobby - I'm unsure whether facts are deliberately been distorted - the whole furore and storm in a teacup has nothing to do with women playing games or girls playing space marines - it's about a movement supposedly representing women who insist that exclusively male toys and fiction are made to include females

And then we're right back to female James Bond

Female Jesus

Female 'name your male dominated subject in history'

I'm in a very privileged place - I don't fucking care - but I understand why people are getting upset


Why isn't the dictator in your game a woman?

Why is the player assumed to be a man with a wife?

Because that's what you wrote based on your preferences

#8

Computer Gaming / Re: 40k Custodes - Who here ha...

Last post by al_infierno - Today at 04:42:02 PM

Really?

Tell me what's wrong with people choosing anything they choose to enjoy that doesn't include any minority or under represented group. Can they not? Should they not?

They didn't choose a game that wasn't specifically diverse - they chose a game that represented their interests up to and including 40 years ago when no one even cared or knew what diversity and woke meant and maybe up to a year ago still didn't but now enough people are willing to try and cancel you for not things must change

There are people of all colours and genders in warhammer - I think maybe what people like you and others don't understand is it is a game that primarily harkens back to or even begins when you're a child when no one gives a shit about diversity and inclusivity and it's just a game - a game now been used by adults to push their agendas

I was maybe being overly harsh, but my point is the whole "chose a game that's not diverse, got mad at added diversity" argument doesn't hold water for me.  It sounds a lot to me like your typical "women and queers invading our spaces" type of dog whistle.

game that primarily harkens back to or even begins when you're a child when no one gives a shit about diversity and inclusivity and it's just a game

See, this is getting down to the disconnect here.  For marginalized people like women, there's no "good old days where inclusivity wasn't a thing."  Marginalized people recognize that they've been excluded from a very young age. Between "nerd" hobbies being overwhelmingly male dominated in the first place, and a toxic subset of 40K fans who are way too enthusiastic about the Imperium and exterminatus and what have you, it's no surprise that the fandom can be perceived as unwelcoming to those who don't conform to your typical "nerd" archetype.

Somehow, attempts to make the media itself more inclusive are construed as some kind of "agenda" because they dare pose uncomfortable questions about bigotry and inclusivity in a space meant for fun and entertainment.  It's easy for me or you to shrug it off and say "it's just a game" when we've never personally faced bigotry in this space for being the "wrong" type of person.

I just don't see what coherent "agenda" is being pushed here except... women should be included in stuff?  Is that really such a horrible "agenda" to push for?

#9

Computer Gaming / Re: Sins Of a Solar Empire 2

Last post by Grim.Reaper - Today at 04:27:04 PM

Past thread on it, some posts near the end where some folks had impressions so might be worth checking out.

https://www.grogheads.com/forums/index.php?topic=26554.msg716745#msg716745

#10

Computer Gaming / Re: Campaign Series Vietnam

Last post by Jason Petho - Today at 04:23:42 PM

Thank you for heads up! That's a great book on the battles!