Author Topic: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame  (Read 3540 times)

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Offline DicedT

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Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« on: September 17, 2012, 08:45:18 AM »
Put this on the new blog: http://www.forbes.com/sites/michaelpeck/2012/09/17/help-the-pentagon-design-a-wargame/

I also let Consimworld knowl. I'm curious to what suggestions the wargamer community can offer.

Michael


Offline bayonetbrant

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2012, 12:10:00 PM »
Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame

uh, I already did ;D
The key to surviving this site is to not say something which ends up as someone's tag line - Steelgrave

"their citizens (all of them counted as such) glorified their mythology of 'rights'...and lost track of their duties. No nation, so constituted, can endure." Robert Heinlein, Starship Troopers

Offline DicedT

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2012, 03:57:37 PM »
And see what happened!

Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame

uh, I already did ;D

Offline Jack Nastyface

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #3 on: September 25, 2012, 11:04:17 AM »
M,
I also posted some comments (just before a meeting) that regrettably lacked proper editing.  I do my BA in English Lit. very little credit (perhaps I should comment in iambic pentameter?)   In any case, not one of my better posts.  I will stop stalking you if you wish, but I DO admire the work you do.

J Nf

Now, the problem is, how to divide five Afghans from three mules and have two Englishmen left over.

Offline DicedT

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #4 on: September 25, 2012, 11:06:35 AM »
Jack, if you only knew the number of typos I make (I can spell, but I'm not a great typist). It was a very thoughtful and informed post. Keep up the good work.

Michael

Offline ArizonaTank

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2012, 09:27:03 PM »
I am interested to see what comes out of this.
"Outlined against a blue-gray October sky, the Four Horsemen rode again. In dramatic lore they are known as Famine, Pestilence, Destruction and Death. These are only aliases. Their real names are Stuhldreher, Miller, Crowley and Layden."   Grantland Rice, New York Herald Tribune, October 18th, 1924. 

Notre Dame wins at Army, 13 - 7, Oct. 18, 1924

Notre Dame undefeated 1924
Coach: Knute Rockne

Offline James Sterrett

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #6 on: October 08, 2012, 08:39:36 AM »
Me too.  We've turned the final draft over to the National Simulation Center, who, in theory, will pass it along to PEO-STRI, who, in theory, will set up a contract to have it built, probably by a sub- (or sub-sub-)contractor.  At any of these stages it could get mangled *improved* from what we tried to write up.


Offline Smuckatelli

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2012, 06:39:37 AM »
James, any chance that you can pass a copy of the draft to Trasys?

Offline James Sterrett

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2012, 08:03:16 AM »
Yes - will try to remember to send it to you tomorrow.

Offline taijeronv

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2014, 01:22:05 PM »
Add some military/Taliban flavor to SimCity and voila.  Wouldn't it be cool to do some CAS in SimCity?

Besides the game doesn't teach anything, that's what the instructor is for.

TJ

Offline Mr. Bigglesworth

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2014, 04:40:28 PM »
Add some military/Taliban flavor to SimCity and voila.  Wouldn't it be cool to do some CAS in SimCity?

Besides the game doesn't teach anything, that's what the instructor is for.

TJ

Heresy.

Instructors provide information. They may also provide methods of using the information. The rest is up to the student to learn/figure out.

Militarys have a top down structure for coordination of parts. People in this mind set tend to think you pour the desired knowledge into the heads of students. Learning is emergent. The student puts things together based on their experience. Their interests. You do not control the mental constructs they come up with.

The same holds for the people they interact with out on the battlefield.

I would help if I did not have to do other work and I got an ok from some Canadian authority that they don't mind.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Offline taijeronv

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2014, 11:26:08 PM »
Ok maybe I didn't explain myself.  And you sound like a high speed academic good for you.

I've been doing this a long time.  The wording in Mike's article was that the game was going to teach the student something, as if there were no instructor interaction.

I don't know your background so I won't get to upset.  And you probably know all the wonderful theories about adult education etc.  For all I know you may have trained and educated cadets, officers, NCOs, and soldiers like I have.  In my experience it "helps" to have an instructor present.  I don't teach them what to think I teach them how to think.  You should watch me sometime, when it comes to teaching this stuff I'm pretty freaking good.  Most of my kids don't have any experience whatsoever.  I may not control their mental constructs as you put it, but I can damn sure put things in the proper context.  There is no autopilot learning when it comes to this stuff.

I can't remember who it was but some high speed sims guy thought they could take the instructor out of the loop, now that's heresy.  At least when your talking about what I teach and how I teach it.  No computer game is as good at teaching this stuff as I am.  The game provides the science, but it does not teach the art.

I've been training AND educating soldiers for over 30 years.  What Mike said in this article, and I know he didn't mean it this way, was akin to saying "give them the manual, the manual will teach them everything they need to know".  Ok great, give them the computer game, lock them in a room for a few days, and voila instant knowledge, that's a bunch of crap.

I don't pour shit into anything.  I ask them why they think that hill is key terrain, and not the other two.  I ask them why they feel the need to clear a room with a machinegun, or why they fail to use cover and concealment when there's a perfectly good clump of trees a few meters away.  Sometimes I show them what a shaping operation really is because all they've experienced is reading about it.  Sometimes I will ask them to explain why they isolated the objective, even though they didn't know they were doing it.  Sometimes we go off on a tangent because one of the cadets did something really "creative", but then we break it down isolate the elements that went into that particular decision, and file it for future use. 

Maybe what I said IS heresy, I'm sure a bunch of you can back that up with stats, research, and tons of papers.  But I do know one thing.  My kids are lucky to have an experienced instructor to help guide them.

Rant mode off.


TJ

Offline Mr. Bigglesworth

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2014, 12:29:29 AM »
Good explanation, we understand what each other are talking about. I bet you are good.
Cheers.
"Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more; "
- Shakespeare's Henry V, Act III, 1598

Offline Apocalypse 31

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Re: Help the Pentagon Design a Wargame
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2014, 02:41:36 PM »

I can't remember who it was but some high speed sims guy thought they could take the instructor out of the loop, now that's heresy.  At least when your talking about what I teach and how I teach it.  No computer game is as good at teaching this stuff as I am.  The game provides the science, but it does not teach the art.


Couldn't agree more.

The simulation is nothing more than a referee; rolling the dice and enforcing the rules.

The adult learning model is where this becomes high payoff. Students are armed with the principles, but have to apply them to the situation at their own will.